Stallone: Rocky Secrets, Rambo Stories & Schwarzenegger Rivalry | Stick to Football EP 154

0:00Gary Neville: Stick to Football is brought to you by our title partner, Disney+. Watch a lifetime of great stories on Disney+.

0:10Therapy's biggest impact doesn't show up in some dramatic breakthrough. It shows up in the smallest moments. You bite your tongue instead of escalating. You put your phone down instead of firing off that text. You say what you actually mean instead of what would hurt someone else the most. Nobody applauds those moments, but they quietly change your life. That's what growing feels like. And that's exactly what Grow Therapy is here for. Grow is therapy that works, covered by insurance. Sessions average$21 with insurance, and some pay as little as$0, depending on their plan. There are no subscriptions, no long-term commitments.

0:47You just pay per session. Grow connects you with thousands of high-quality, licensed therapists across the U.S., offering both virtual and in-person sessions, nights and weekends. You can search by what matters, like insurance, specialty, identity, or availability. And you can book a therapy session in minutes and begin in as little as two days, not the national 48-day average. See if you could pay as little as$0 for therapy in seconds at growtherapy.com slash start now. That's growtherapy.com slash start now. GrowTherapy.com slash StartNow. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan.

1:28Losing weight can feel like a roller coaster, full of ups, downs, and being thrown for loops, like when someone brings donuts into the office, or your kids' dino nuggets start giving you that look again. That's why there's Noom. They combine GLP-1s to quiet the food noise with healthy habits that help you keep it quiet, even if you get off the meds. Their program is designed to make weight loss a smooth ride, helping you understand what drives you, so you can build better habits to not just lose weight, but keep it off. Noom. Lose for keeps. Get started at Noom.com. Not all customers will clinically qualify for medications.

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3:09Roy Keane: oh you've got your t-shirt on i do love that movie

3:13Gary Neville: Oh, I love that movie. Are you going to be like a fawning schoolboy today? Oh, Gary, silly. Professional. He might sign it for me. Is he the most famous guest that we've ever had on?

3:25Roy Keane: Yeah, I would say so. Gotta be.

3:27Gary Neville: What do you think is more famous, Rambo or Rocky? Rocky. Yeah, probably, but give me Rambo every day of the week.

3:34Roy Keane: I do like him in Rambo.

3:36Gary Neville: I was just thinking, by the way, this is the only person that's ever got us to a different location in four years. Yeah, I'm on a happy roller.

3:44Roy Keane: We need Rome.

3:45Gary Neville: Coming to London. No, but Rome was different. Rome was just like something different. That was money. This is the only guest that we've travelled for in four years.

3:53Ian Wright: Hey, what's happening, guys? Wow. You look good.

3:56Gary Neville: Yes, right. We're on its own patch, aren't we? Where am I sitting here? You look like one of his trainers. No, his brother, Adrian's brother. Yeah. Adrian's brother with the... Polly! I look like Polly! Polly! Come on, I look like Polly.

4:09Ian Wright: Sylvester. Did you read it? Adrian's brother. Jeez. Okay, I'm going to sit on the corner. What's the best Rocky? Easily. Four. No, no, no. The first one. Yeah. Obviously, what's his name? Ivan Drago. It's Russian. Everyone remembers. And three with Klubberlang. I think four is amazing.

4:28Gary Neville: Four is amazing. Which? Klubberlang's amazing. That's two, isn't it?

4:33Ian Wright: Klubberlang's three. Klubberlang's three. Three, is it? Yeah. Drago is four. Four. And then five he comes out of retirement, doesn't he? Come on, it's basic Rocky knowledge, that. We're all in London last night. Why didn't you all turn out? We could have gone to a show together. I mean, everyone talks a good game. I didn't get back till 11. I couldn't. I was surprised you came down last night.

4:52Roy Keane: He was at a show.

4:53Gary Neville: How was it? It was about the show? Yeah. It was good. It was good. I think I might go put a T-shirt on, you know. What do you reckon? Yeah, I'd rather you be comfortable than complain about it.

5:02Roy Keane: Why don't you just do it with your top off? Like, Rocky, Scramble.

5:07Gary Neville: Get some oil.

5:11Gary Neville: I'm gonna do the show with my top off, is that alright? Right, that's better isn't it?

5:17Ian Wright: Oh girl, that's much better, that's what I would have done if I was here.

5:21Gary Neville: Wow, makes you look pale then.

5:23Ian Wright: Wow, it does, yeah. Really look washed out.

5:30Gary Neville: They suggested in the back that I come in just basically top off with Rocky music on you.

5:34Roy Keane: Yeah, I think you should have done that.

5:36Gary Neville: That's brilliant.

5:38Roy Keane: John Rambo.

5:40Gary Neville: John Jay.

5:41Roy Keane: With the... John Jay? It'll go big.

5:44Gary Neville: Sylvester Sloan's up there with Roy with the John Rambo T-shirt on. He wants to talk about Rocky, doesn't he? It's a Rocky gig. Somebody must have had a Rocky T-shirt. Rambo portrayed the difficulties that obviously veterans had come back from Vietnam. Yeah, that's true.

5:59Ian Wright: I'm talking about Rocky, about that rejection and all that. He's never given up. Rocky is a love story. you know the fighting's amongst them you know don't go deep enough where you love story adrian

6:18Gary Neville: now adrian did she ever appear again she was in the godfather i didn't realize that i mean i don't watch films

6:35Gary Neville: Oh, goodness. Which is also a love story. Which is a good love story. Yeah, usual suspects, love story. Quiz question, can you name the players in Escape to Victory? Bobby Moore. John Walk. Osman. Russell Osman, yeah. Canceler. Is that a Gates? Pele, people forget about Pele. Pele. Canceler. Bobby.

6:56Ian Wright: Bobby Moore, yeah. John Walk. Yep. Canceler. Did you say John Walker?

7:00Gary Neville: There's a Yugoslav player in there. There's a Yugoslav, like, I mean, I love who's getting a victory. I was looking at earlier.

7:08Roy Keane: No, I actually don't know.

7:10Gary Neville: You mentioned Pella, didn't you?

7:12Roy Keane: Yeah.

7:13Ian Wright: Aussie Ardiles? Aussie Ardiles, yeah.

7:15Gary Neville: Who's the goalkeeper that broke his arm? His arm snapped.

7:19Ian Wright: Oh, of course. So that's the rest of the Solon could go and go.

7:21Gary Neville: Yeah, so that's the rest of the Solon could go and go. His technique wasn't great, was it as a goalkeeper? Do you remember?

7:24Ian Wright: No, you could see that he wasn't really a goalkeeper. Yeah.

7:30Gary Neville: This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Disney Plus. I was completely anonymous. Now everyone coming out, you're him, you're him, you're him, you're him. I wish you would go, ah, right into the popcorn. This is the kind of woman that you would marry, she'd write you a song, go out and build you a log cabin, you know, milk the cow, everything. And then get clammed up. Bang, down, stunned. Thank you. The fight was 11 seconds, including the count. You were either a convincing person as an actor, like it just comes out, or you're not. And you're not gonna make it. I'll never forget, I was coming off a talk show.

8:21There's one woman. We like Rocky, we don't like you. Wow.

8:34Oh, I'm taking no less. Hi guys, how are you? Thank you.

8:39Roy Keane: Hello, lovely to meet you.

8:41Ian Wright: Pleased to meet you. Sure. Nice to meet you. Ian, nice to meet you. Pleasure. Wow, I can't believe it. I feel like we have royalty.

8:50Roy Keane: It is royalty.

8:51Gary Neville: You've been staying here at the Clarities? Yeah, we're upstairs somewhere. Enjoying it? Yeah, well we got it late last night, so far so good. and we'll be here probably until Sunday then I get back and start Tulsa King on Monday Tulsa King on Monday are you having a lot of

9:10Roy Keane: interviews about the book and everything no I mean not really we've yeah they're profound interviews like long two hour one New York Times every day so it isn't a bunch of those we used to do like 70 a day 70 and it'd be like 3 minutes each that kind of thing they don't do that anymore. The junkets. Yeah. Thank God. I hope you prefer the longer ones. I do because the other ones, they're going to ask you the same questions. Yes. They have like five they have to ask. What motivates you to keep going? You know, it's not like I'm trying to prove anything. It's just the nature of the beast. I've actually tried, like, what is the management of leisure time?

9:55Like, how do you do that? Some people go fly fishing, hunt, hike. You still write? Yeah, I love to write. No, actually I hate to write, but I love the results. And writing to me is almost mathematics with words as opposed to just typing. People go, why don't you just talk into a recorder? Because it really is a skill set. You know, in writing it's constant reduction until you get the real nectar. I think it's actually been physically proven that cursive is flows. They're different as opposed to, or maybe that's just me trying to fend ignorance on how to use a keyboard. I never learned in life, you know, it would have been a lot easier.

10:48Ian Wright: That's what your wife used to do. She used to write it up and she used to like type it up. You know the typewriters, you know, click, click, click. Yeah, one of those. But yeah, I think there's something to it. How do you switch off? Switch off? I don't think it works that way. I think you find a distraction and that's called off. You're like watching a sport, watching a movie, and then, okay, I won't get in my head in a little bit for two hours, and then you're back. It's like you study all these Eastern philosophies and meditation, J. Krishnamurti and all this stuff. It never shuts off. No. Which is a curse.

11:29I call it roof brain chatter. It doesn't stop. So you're always on. I think everyone is. I think this is the human dilemma. Stop. So you're constantly... That's what I think drives people really crazy when they're dwelling on a problem. And that's what it builds and it manifests itself and it festers. Stop. Because you thinking about it is only going to cause you grief. Just wait to the results. But the constant manifestation of what if, what if, what if, what if.

12:05Gary Neville: How long did it take you to develop that coping mechanism to deal with problems in that way and switch away from them? Were you affected in the early years? No, probably about 75 years. No, I'm joking. This is something that's come recently. Yeah, because I would confront problems rather than avoid them. I would actually attack them. Or if you felt something with a slight or an insult or whatever, you become reactive. And now it's like, nah, take a day, take a day or two. the pleasure combating that person is not worth the pleasure, it's not worth the pain. They're constantly dwelling on it. But that's a constant monitoring system where you've been raised with insults.

12:57I'm in the insult business. The arts are in the insult business because they're constantly insulting your ability, your integrity, your writing, your painting styles constantly.

13:09Ian Wright: It's a lot of failure. There's a few of us in that one, aren't there? Yes, yes. It's a lot of failure. Tons of failure. And that you really have to make friends with. Is it them? Is it me? Is it them? Is it me? And I would say the best artist, the most sensitive ones, you'll never see because they can't handle it. So you get these kind of journeyman tough guys out here. Like Picasso was an animal. Seriously, think about it. This guy here, he did what? 250 ,000 pieces of art. He's known for 2 ,000. So that's like 0.003 batting average where you're successful. So he understood, this one's not as good as that one.

13:53That one was better. Oh, you were better in your 30s. So it's a constant thing. And finally, he didn't give a shit. He was like, I'm going to gain weight, take my shirt off and smoke cigarettes. And that's it. Do you give a shit?

14:07Yeah, for sure. Still now? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

14:16If you're a very sensitive person, you want to feel as though you're administering something that is worthy and people are like it. And then when you actually do something and people are like, that's fucking terrible, that's horrible. Like that movie stinks. But it's not as though we sat down. They said how can we spend millions of dollars to make a horrible product that tastes terrible? I mean, it's just these things happen and quite often the Performer has to take over the chin and boy, that's not easy So after all the success that you've had in your career even right now you still have that feeling of having to prove yourself in Well, it's not true.

14:57It's just that you have to constantly challenge yourself and but it's not like okay I want to prove something to you that would be that would be debilitating because I don't want to put any false gods in front of me the one thing that I don't know if it was ego or narcissism but I never had like a real role model or someone go that guy's great and Yeah, I just felt as though we'll see You know, we'll see if you can do that as opposed to I'll never be able to get out of that guy's shaft off you know me I guess like oh Sean I put false gods before is that kind of a thing and I just I but I also thought that was the height of arrogance too it's like I don't need God I really religion you're on your own that's bullshit I know but it's that when you're totally alone I thought this is gonna be on you don't expect any divine intervention don't expect this don't expect to knock on the door.

16:01Here's a script. You're done. Nobody cares about you. They'll step over you. And having that knowledge of being completely disposable was invigorating. I didn't charm myself or delude myself into thinking you mean anything. You don't. You should cut eight million of us here. Everyone's got their own issue. Do you see yourself as a risk taker? Yeah, big time, yeah. Yeah, that I like. I'm not a gambler in the actual clinical sense, but yeah, risk taker. For example, we get in trouble for this. AI is here to stay. And I wanted to do half human, half AI. They put it together. And of course, everyone's going nuts.

16:51I go, that's happening, guys. You know, people are now selling their images and this, and eventually, that there are 20 Elvis's avatars. There is happening. So I would take that risk, even though you could blast it bombastically from the creative community. And they're right, they're right, but we can't stop this avalanche. It's just out of our control. If you don't go with it, you will trample by it, I think.

17:23Gary Neville: Do you think that's why you've managed to stay relevant? Because you've always moved with the times. You're talking about AI at the stage you're at in your life. You wouldn't have thought someone would continue to keep developing. I don't know if you've noticed, but I think the... On Instagram, TikTok, you know, have these little vignettes, and 40 seconds, a minute, whatever. For some reason, they put so many on of me, but age appropriate. So when I'm running, it's like, show them that. They're not making you up to be a gazelle. They're thinking, why are they doing this? I mean, this is time intensive.

17:59Not one, but maybe five different sites. And I think what they're doing is actually wetting the palate of the public. There was a situation, Quibi, a few years ago. There were some people like Jeffrey Katzberg and other people who lost billions of dollars in an experiment called Quibi, which was many things on your phone, 10 minutes, five-minute movies. It was just a little too soon, I believe. So that I'm very fascinated with because the time expansion of the brain is becoming diminishing. So it's today. To get them for two hours, lock in, it's possible.

18:45Gary Neville: This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Disney+. This episode is sponsored by the new Gillette Labs Body and Intimate Range. There aren't many better feelings in football than scoring a goal. I didn't get too many in my career, but you can't beat the feeling. Scoring should be all about the joy, but as we all know, if you take your shirt off to celebrate nowadays, you'll get an automatic yellow card. And that's not just true in the professional game. it also applies at grassroots level where it can also mean a£10 fine. Seems a bit harsh. That's why Gillette and Right It are stepping in.

19:21Gary Neville: They're covering all eligible grassroots players for those£10 fines. And they're also calling for the rule that sees shirt-off goal celebrations punished with a yellow card to be scrapped altogether. But first, Gillette wants to make sure you are celebration ready. That's why the new Gillette Labs Body and Intimate Range is Gillette's safest body shave with fewer nicks and cuts helping you feel celebration ready on or off the pitch. Find out more about the range and how to get involved at gillette.co.uk. First 1 ,000 eligible applicants runs from the 10th of October to the 31st of December 2026.

19:57Gary Neville: UK only, 18 plus terms and conditions apply.

20:04Therapy's biggest impact doesn't show up in some dramatic breakthrough. It shows up in the smallest moments. You bite your tongue instead of escalating. You put your phone down instead of firing off that text. You say what you actually mean instead of what would hurt someone else the most. Nobody applauds those moments, but they quietly change your life. That's what growing feels like. And that's exactly what Grow Therapy is here for. Grow is therapy that works, covered by insurance. Sessions average$21 with insurance and some pay as little as$0 depending on their plan. There are no subscriptions, no long-term commitments.

20:41You just pay per session. Grow connects you with thousands of high-quality licensed therapists across the U.S. offering both virtual and in-person sessions nights and weekends. You can search by what matters, like insurance, specialty, identity, or availability. And you can book a therapy session in minutes and begin in as little as two days, not the national 48-day average. See if you could pay as little as$0 for therapy in seconds at growtherapy.com slash start now. That's growtherapy.com slash start now. growtherapy.com slash start now. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan.

21:22Losing weight can feel like a roller coaster, full of ups, downs, and being thrown for loops, like when someone brings donuts into the office, or your kids' dino nuggets start giving you that look again. That's why there's Noom. They combine GLP-1s to quiet the food noise with healthy habits that help you keep it quiet, even if you get off the meds. Their program is designed to make weight loss a smooth ride, helping you understand what drives you, so you can build better habits to not just lose weight, but keep it off. Noom. Lose for keeps. Get started at Noom.com Not all customers will clinically qualify for medications.

22:00Individual results may vary.

22:06Gary Neville: Have you watched this new Oasis documentary or what? On Disney Plus? No, not yet. The boys aren't happy at the moment, are they? No. They're a bit angry about football, aren't they? Not at all. All the rest of it. But they must be happy with the documentary though because they've got a new tour coming up. They have got a new tour coming up. About their last tour, the documentary, innit? I must admit, I did go to Wembley last year. So did I. It was pretty special. You go to Wembley? I went with Jack to Wembley. We had a great time. It was good. It was good. It was a bit nostalgic. Is there any relationship with football that you think reminds you a bit of Liam and Noel?

22:38Me and Cara?

22:40Gary Neville: You didn't spend as many years apart, though, did you? We didn't. Is there a song by Oasis that, like, when you hear it, takes you back to a particular time? Do you know something? Master Plan, because I actually was learning to play guitar from the age, I think, 27 to 31, and I used to love the Master Plan. It's actually a song that I would consider having at my funeral, not that I'll be there. Well, I will be there, actually. Do you have her favourite gig of all time? The best gig, absolutely, I've remembered the best gig I ever went to watch. It was with David Beckham and Fabian Barthes. It was 10 Years of Noise and Confusion tour, and it was at the Apollo, and Noel did a little acoustic set in the middle.

23:19Gary Neville: and it was one of the best concerts I've ever watched in my life. It was incredible in the Apollo. Watching 3000, just really tight. It was incredible that night. Honestly, they were brilliant. Don't miss this one. Oasis, Don't Look Back in Anger, a Hulu original film, new and exclusive on Disney+.

23:43Roy Keane: There's too many Mancunians on this show. Football, football, football. Well, it's all we talk about.

23:50Gary Neville: Every day. So, come and join us. On Overlap Daily. This is easy, this. Every week, Monday to Friday. From 4pm. Watch on YouTube. And listen wherever you get your podcasts. It's just laughing. It's football. Football. Football. In that order. Overlap Daily We'll see you soon

24:23Gary Neville: We do this thing called Mythbusters where I read out a statement and you'll obviously know the answer we don't know the answer but we've got a debate whether it's true or not Your favourite food is raw eggs Do we think that's true or false?

24:39Roy Keane: Or still

24:42Gary Neville: Ramble eats raw eggs

24:43Ian Wright: It was rocky the first time. I remember me and my brothers tried it afterwards. It was horrible. Yeah. It's terrible. It's terrible, isn't it?

24:51Roy Keane: I'm saying no. It's false. It's false? I'm saying it's false. No, you're definitely right. It's a no. The eggs were actually a manifestation of having no money.

25:01Ian Wright: Yes. It's a little refrigerator. So you buy them, set them on the windowsill in the morning, and if the pigeons didn't get to them sooner. but no and I thought if I do this in Rocky yet and this is what I used to do every day but it's not healthy at all and they go how can you do that I said well it goes down in one string yes it's just like do well you're doing that to

25:27Roy Keane: help build your physique no I don't think it helped I think if anything you probably borderline seminella disease prominent at the time it's like wow

25:39Ian Wright: Oh, everybody said, well, I'm going to do six. Do you remember it?

25:43Gary Neville: OK, next one. You own artwork by Picasso and Warhol. I would say that's that. Because he mentioned Picasso. Yeah, it's true. They're worth a few quid. Yeah, we're going to say, yes, it's true? Yeah, that's my weakness, art. Ah, yeah. And I do a lot of more contemporary artists who are becoming the new. You know what I mean? You have George Kondo and there's Rishi Johnson and all these different, I mean, this generation's Picasso. How much is a Picasso in a Warhol, if you don't mind me asking? How much is it worth? Am I allowed to ask that question? About 40 million. Wow.

26:21Roy Keane: No way. Both of them together, one of them? Yeah, just one. Wow. Listen, I had a collection one time and you won't believe this. I think if you were ever going to make your great fortune, sans technology, in the middle 80s, I could buy a Monet. This is great. I'd pay$130, right? You buy Picasso, you buy Renoir, the Haystack. These are very famous paintings. $100,$110. Francis Bacon,$75 ,000. The point is, and then I would sell it for$3 ,000. Not bad, right? Right, yeah. 10 years later, 12 years later, guys come back and try to sell it to me for$75 ,000. I'm not joking. The point is, if you got art, don't sell it unless you have to pay the mortgage because it's appreciating.

27:15It doesn't cost, you don't have to feed it. I had a collection that you can't replace because of the shift in the clients. It's unbelievable. I don't forget, there's one Monet, it's 110 grand. It's called the Haystacks, right? I paid up like 110. Guy wanted to sell it back to me for 130 me. Wow. I'm just, it's like, I'm pretty sure I go, right into the popcorn.

27:47Gary Neville: And then your watches, how much do you love your watches? We have to ask, we're obsessed with watches around the table.

27:51Roy Keane: These guys tell me you can make a lot from watches, is it true? Oh yeah. Some of these go up 10 times. Yeah, that's where I'm going next. Where are you going? Can we come with you? The vintage Rolex store by John Silver. It's vintage watches, and they only sell old Rolexes. For some reason, I fixated on a watch called the Stella, which is 36. But they're hand painted. I've got just about the whole collection, so I'm going to check it out. Or you think you do and then it's not going to go, hey, I got fouled one more. I know.

28:30Gary Neville: Stop. OK, next one. You've broken your neck on a film set. Yeah.

28:37Ian Wright: Yeah. Wow.

28:39Gary Neville: Three times.

28:40Ian Wright: Wow. You always done your own stunts back in the day? Yeah. Actually, it's interesting. So I was doing a fight scene in Expendables with Steve Austin and he threw me the bottle of bricks and it broke. And it hurt. So I go to the doctor. They go, oh, you broke your neck. But again, I go, what do you mean again? He goes, yeah, you have double auto fusions. What that means, guys, is that I didn't realize that at the time I was doing a bench press when I was maybe 21 in a wrestler's breach, which means you're always putting all your weight on the back. it's really ridiculous yes hey it snaps and I think all just strained her a little bit then what I was right I couldn't move my head so literally for maybe five weeks and I take a towel twist it and walk around go by some eggs cut his cheese come back and then do the same thing Wow and it and realize I'd broken my neck, but I couldn't afford to have it fixed.

29:44So it auto fuses. In a while, 17 degrees forward.

29:54Roy Keane: Does that cause you a lot of problems now? Maybe injuries that you've got from your steps? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. My wife is like a nurse. Wow.

30:02Gary Neville: One of only two actors in history to have starred in a box office number one film across six consecutive decades. Yeah, yeah, yeah, true. True? Oh, yeah, true. I didn't know it, but, you know. Who's the other one? Harrison. Wow. You stipulated in your contracts that you had to have a bigger weapon on screen than Schwarzenegger. What are we talking about here? We're talking about it in private life.

30:36No, it was never simulated, but yeah, there was that kind of competition. What was it like at the start of the competition?

30:42Ian Wright: I always felt like he said some things. That's mean. I think he did. Yeah. And I don't hold that against him. Actually, I'm glad. It's like Ali Fraser brings out the best in you. But he's a very, very competitive guy. And that's how many, you know, wonderful. how many six seven eight of Mr. Olympians and I wasn't but then I said you know what this could end up being interesting and he got I mean we could have been standing to be in the same room and I love that feeling because now obviously Friends in that now oh yeah yeah yeah I love that yeah it's still competitive but it's it's undocumented do you think that's something to do with the because Rambo I remember a lot of his stuff came when when Rambo came out and he He was getting so much publicity.

31:30Ian Wright: Everybody loved Rambo. And that's when I'd hear a lot from him saying just mean things. Rambo commando. Yeah. You know, he's just a very... God. Actually, I think he's even more competitive than me. Because I don't like to compete. I really don't. I'm one of those guys, oh, I lost the fight. We lost it. You lost the game. I didn't dwell on it. Some people, you've been with golfers, they go nuts. They break it. I go, you're not a pro. So that's why Rocky, and I think why people identify with him, he's lost as many fights as he's won. So he's like 26 and 24, which he goes, that's part of the game.

32:18He didn't, I've actually met guys that have lost over 100 fights and maybe won three. I wanted to do a movie about those guys. You know, the journeymen, they bring it to town.

32:28Gary Neville: Do you admire them more than the guys who win all the time? Oh, gosh, yeah, think about that one. I mean, I'm going to, I'm a professional loser. I thought, what a great idea. Because that's pretty much what Rocky was. He's a professional loser, and it didn't bother him. And that's a, what a mentality that is. How much training do you have to do before the Rocky films in terms of in a ring, boxing, sparring, pads? To do the kind of choreography we would do, it'd be months. But the one that took the most was with Dolph Lundgren. Yes. Because there's hundreds and hundreds of punches, and he's so formidable.

33:08The height, so you have to really work on the mat. This is going to work. This visually is going to work. You need to have... I liked it, but it's a choreographed dance with misses because they're so, oh yeah, he put me in the hospital.

33:24Ian Wright: You mentioned in Rocky 1 that you and Apollo Creed, sometimes you actually caught each other. Yeah, we did. Because that was one of the first Rocky, that was the first boxing film where it really did look like it was happening. Oh, thank you. Progressively, it got better, but we didn't, we literally, the guy quit. Right. One choreographer quit. Yeah, the stunt coordinator was, I want you to come out, jab, jab, you punch, punch. I go, that's exactly the mathematics I've seen in every fight film. It's like this. And as you know, no pro does the shoeshine. It's a thing you do to warm up on the bag.

34:00It's kind of flassy. It's definitely not something you would implement to knock someone out because there's no power to it. And he goes, just do this. And I said, can Apollo come out and hit me with four right hands? That's the stupidest thing. He's Apollo. That's the point. He's not your normal guy. And I had met Muhammad Ali. He goes, yeah, I used to come out and go, wham, wham, wham, wham. And completely unorthodox and send a message. And then I'd back off, you know, because now the other guy knows, oh boy, he can unload on me anytime. Again, failure, rejection, setbacks, the guy quits. He goes, you don't know what you're doing.

34:46I'm out of this goddamn place. Oh, dropped dead. The producers were going to fire me. And that's when I said, wow, why don't we start to study the greatest fights of all time, borrow that segment, borrow, fuse them all together. Now you have a really exciting concept because it's all taken from reality.

35:08Ian Wright: Yeah. So what was it? Who was the fight? Was Muhammad Ali against... Was it Webb? Well, I would borrow that with him and Fraser. I do a lot later on with... Like in Rocky III, I was trying to channeling Sugar Ray Leonard. Because he would go from side to side. And oddly enough, Mr. T, very powerful, is left-handed like me. So it was too... And Rocky was kind of this kind of guy. So I said there's no contrast. actually that whole film was about adaptation if you cease to adapt you will die and so when Rocky fights Creed the first I mean a clubber he gets demolished because he's the same guy he cannot fight his own image and that's what Apollo comes in and I said okay here's the story adaptation mimic me but you can only do it for three rounds you're gonna be out of gas so the audience number three guys put you like and there were more punches the three rounds than in the first two Rockies because it had to be that kind of frenetic and I got that from Marvin Hackler is this a sports show too?

36:21Marvin Hackler and Tommy Hearns yeah brilliant fight was that right it was three rounds these guys hated each other I knew both of them so much they threw all their professionalism out the window. It's just like two guys slugging. I go, that's wonderful.

37:07You mentioned about movies being hit and miss sometimes, but also when you're doing a movie, you're going, this is happening, this is working. Do you get that feeling? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. How soon? Some that are really enjoyable always seem to bomb. There's some kind of manifestation that if it's really tough, it works. When you're really enjoying yourself, it doesn't make it. It's weird.

37:30Ian Wright: Yeah, but Rocky was really tired. How did you feel about that? Because that was your first, that was the one that you... It was, the first one was, it was like 25 days, so it was a blur. It really was fast. But I was so green, so naive, I didn't understand the ramifications of like, this is a good scene, a bad scene. You just did a scene. I didn't have the sophistication. But would there benefit to that as well? Yes, that's my point. So what you see in that film is just raw, trying to express yourself, not saying, hey, how about that angle? Yes. You move that light again. That was out the window.

38:13Roy Keane: How much did you have to fight to get the part of Rocky? That was a long, laborious situation, and they didn't want me, which I think is totally understandable. I wouldn't either. I mean, I had no credits, no nothing. I wasn't the movie star, good-looking kind of guy. It was just a, like, who the hell? It looked like a fellow who was a professional extra, which I was, to step up. But you know, guys, it was one of those times, and I think it comes along with desperation and youth. You know, this is it. If you don't cross this bridge, it's never going to happen again. and I realized I was such a different type like face crocus learned boys that if I didn't design something specifically for put my flaws on camera because if they were the ones that had help always held me back it was never gonna happen and you're always gonna be the third guy through the door you know in the chasey yeah boss we would do that guy so I said to my wife at the time I'm We're going to be a very bitter, broken man.

39:27Yes, we'll have a few bucks for a while, but that will go, like everything. And what you're going to have is a shell of a human being who sold out. So I was in this terrible situation. I know me. I know what would have happened in a couple of years. I would have been a disappointment to everyone. So I painted myself in a corner. You know what I mean? I couldn't back out. And I expected them to...

39:53Ian Wright: Even when they were offering ridiculous sums in the service? Well, I knew you'd get the money, but I would never be able to go beyond that. At the time, you was in a real... Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You was in a bad place,$100 or something, in your bank account. It's kind of, oh, woe is me, but yeah, I had about 80 bucks. Wife? She's pregnant. Yeah. We're in a house that's so hot. It's like nosebleeds and dust. I mean, it's really... There was nothing. and$40 car, it's held together with hangers in the engine. And so they offered about 360 ,000, which is about 300 ,000 more than I would ever expect.

40:34That translated probably to about two and a half million today. But if someone else had played that role, do you think it never would have worked? Do you think, do you ever contemplate that if they did go with? Someone else. Someone else? Yeah. You think it would have walked, it still would have walked? I don't think it would have walked. Or wouldn't have walked? No. It was literally, I felt it. It was a biography. So when you're doing those scenes with Mickey, that's your father in reality. So you're just juxtapositioning that scene. So when I'm really ripping out like with that scene where I, well, I used you out of prime.

41:09That's me and probably my father. But then in the end where he goes out and embraces it, that's the thing I always wanted to do. so I could do it on film. You know, that kind of thing. So there's a certain personal touch. Maybe some actors wouldn't want to do that. Like that scene, the way it was written, is Mickey comes in, says, I want to be your manager. I said, no. Where were you when I needed you? I'm shot. I have nothing going. And he left. And that was the end of the scene. I go, God, this is really a time for, I need to. Yeah. Like, I said, please, let's roll. And I go in, and Merger's already gone home, you know, so you come out of there and you just rip it, and there was this on inner dialogue.

42:02And I'm like, wow, it happened, we got it. And the sound man goes, was that a take?

42:11now guys you know what's impossible to ad lib and ad lib you know it came off the top and now you try to remember it so it's not coming from here now it's coming from

42:25Ian Wright: yeah

42:29so luckily I got away with it but that was just on the fly because you don't I didn't even know I didn't realize that moment was going to be so important. When I was ready, he goes...

42:41Ian Wright: I felt sorry for Mickey when he walked out. I felt really sorry for him because he needed his shot as well. I know. Everyone needed their shot. Adrian, they all needed to have some sort of validation or some hope. They were riding on Rockies. That's what was amazing. But the cast, guys, I've never seen a cast like that, ever. and I've done 90 movies. He says, you can't think of anyone else playing that part. That's amazing. Because I look at Tulsa King, I could do this, someone could replace me. I mean, you know all that. That? No chance. That's why I think it was really divine intervention. I really think it was a blessed miracle.

43:30Ian Wright: And it just came to you, Rocky, when you was just, it just came to you one day. Yeah, because I, you mean when I actually wrote it? Yeah, when you started writing it, yeah. Yes. I realized I was done, really. I had written screenplays. I'd optioned them for$100. And I was not going to really make a living as a writer. It's just very limited. And I said, I got to take one more shot and try to do your story. But no one cares about a writer. No one cares about an actor. I said, we have to do something that's kind of symbolic. And the two things that the world can't get enough of is fighting, because we fight from the day we're born.

44:15Erasing. I'm going to beat you. I'm going to get there. I'm going to beat the clock. I've got to pay my taxes. Err! Everything is a race somewhere. Like, slow down now. Time is chasing you. So if I could just combine those two, and luckily it happened.

44:32Roy Keane: You speak about fighting from the very beginning and your childhood. you certainly had to do that, didn't you? I remember reading about it and it was very sad even reading about it. But how difficult was that start in life?

44:46Ian Wright: Watch out, Sylvester. Roy doesn't like sad stories. If I start saying my sad stories, it keeps me out. No, you just became... You adapt to it. You go, oh. Like, there's no love coming. You say this and there's a punch coming. You just... That's your life. So it wasn't as though every day was, oh, God, you thought about it. He just knew what it was. And you didn't expect it anymore, period. Wow. I mean, it's, I'll never forget this time. I don't know, this stupid story. Anyway, I'm talking to my father. We're having an argument because I got thrown out of school again because I'm ADHD, whatever it is.

45:31I'm just, I cannot focus at all. and I'm always looking out the window, like this kind of a thing. And that was before they really understood to put a student in a special class because he cannot work with other students. He's a distraction, in other words. So he's yelling at me, yelling at me, yelling at me, and then finally I said, stop yelling at me. He goes, what'd you say? I said, stop yelling at me. Jesus Christ, I got it. He went downstairs and he got an axe. And he came back upstairs and said, get out of that fucking chair. I said, okay. And then he goes, wha! When I tell you, it was, I never saw it.

46:15It was a splinters. Next time you'll be sitting there. But it was just business as usual. How old was he?

46:26Ian Wright: Yeah, how old was he then? About 9, 10. Wow. But I'm just telling you that it was... I had seen that kind of stuff. That was normal. That was normal. That was normal, yeah. I mean, you would never get away with it today. Even my mother, just... She's strangled. It just happens all the time. But did he put some kind of beast inside of me that when the time came to play Rocky and Rambo, there was a certain thing, and I can see it in my expression when you're... I'm serious, and I'm watching other guys doing fight films. It's just not that. They're not feeling that. No, it's not the eyes. I went, wow, thank you.

47:18You put something in there that I couldn't possibly conjure up.

47:24Ian Wright: When you read some of the stories, when you read in the book about your parents and how they were, did you have any kind of reckoning with them? I had him. Him. Her. No. No, we didn't know. I didn't even know she died. I mean, it was that, yeah, no. It was very odd. She was funny. She was smart. She was witty. She wanted to be a star, right? Herself. Yeah, yeah. I mean, she really was unique. so whatever sense of humor I definitely got it from her not from him but he was a guy that was just again unrequited professionally wanted to be something more than a guy cutting hair and he just to see him as a beautician was just how's that possible like you are mmm yeah so he was very very frustrated so we I realized he's dying.

48:24So I go down. And, you know, he's not, you know, teeth. He's just a little old man now. And I brought him chocolate cake and all these pastries. You know, because I figured he's not going to be around much longer. Let's have a party. And he really enjoyed that. And then he said, you know, things like, I'm sorry. You know?

48:52And, you know, the main thing is, I don't know why, but people seem to have some sort of revelation when they know they're on the way up. I don't know why it takes that, but usually that's, I don't know if it's a purging of like, oh, shit. Wow, I'm going to meet my maker or something, just like, I'm sorry, kind of a thing. And that felt great, you know what I mean? and you lift them, literally lifting them off, the very kind of a thing. He goes, take care of everybody. I go, yeah, keep punching, sit around. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah.

49:27Roy Keane: Do you think you chased him being proud of you? Because didn't you get him to appear in one of the... The bell man. The bell man. I know. Like you wanted him to be... Oh, yeah, yeah, definitely. He kept trying to insert himself in his own tough way. He just couldn't come up and, hey, I'm proud of you. Is there a part in the movie? Or else, you know, that kind of thing. He just was a, people keep criticizing me because they say he's tough. That's kind of a euphemism for hard, like tough to penetrate. Not like, because he was a different guy. He was just a tortured guy. And he only could express himself with his big hands.

50:12Gary Neville: Why was that? How do you explain that? What was it in their lives, your parents, that made them the way they were with you? Because he had a terrible inferiority complex. Terrible. He always felt uneducated. And so he would insert himself. If you even gave him the slightest slight, he would physically react. But then I would go into his room and he's sitting there trying to write. Because I started writing. He's like, it was sweet. I mean, he tried. like the word very had two R's and that kind of thing and so I would work with him on that but it's just that he I think he wanted to live through me but it was it was kind of too late and but he was yeah I can accept him he was just a very different kind of guy that you don't see anymore you know his father was horrible.

51:12He was just with the mustache cold. I don't think I ever saw him speak to him in 40 years. He's just down at the end of the table, eat, take his hearing aid out and leave. It was that kind of loving family. Again, I'm grateful because maybe that's the formula that worked for me. I was able to artistically process it. My painting is also, you know, just that kind of volatile stuff. So I'm really grateful in a way. Thanks, Dad. This episode of Stick to Football is brought

51:52Gary Neville: to you by Disney+.

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53:59How does life change after the first Rocky film? Everything changed. It changed literally. Usually in Metamorphosis, your life has changed. You make a few more bucks, you buy a car, you bring a little bit. It's not... Yeah. And so I was... I literally changed in two hours. I was standing outside the theater. I was trying to listen. and two hours later where I was completely anonymous. Now everyone coming out, you're him, you're him, you're him, you're him.

54:35Ian Wright: Was that the first showing or the second showing? First show. No, the first show was a disaster. The sneak preview. Yeah. Yeah. Was that when all the executives were saying this is a disaster? No, everyone was very pumped up in the beginning. because there's this thing called the Hollywood circuit where if you're an elite actor or producer, you get the film brought to your house. And they all had theaters. It's a special kind of club. Well, it was working. People go, oh, it's really good, really good, really special, all man, it's a slam dunk. People like Frank Sinatra, all these people were at their home theater were loving it.

55:18So when I took it back to New York, to the theater where I was in, I go, oh, this is slam dunk. No problem. And it started to enroll, and I'm watching one person leave, another person leave, and the studio executive going. It's a big difference when you get into the real world as opposed to the Hollywood world where everything's out, darling, darling, darling. and they didn't know me and these people were not expecting to see this they thought it was a love story it was this guy talking to turtles and that crushed me that crushed me there's no coming back from this because god they hate it then the studio wanted to pull it they did they were thinking about just pulling the whole thing and releasing it as a second feature at a drive-in.

56:16Remember drive-ins? Which is kind of like the death knell. You're done. And Miracle Island a week later. The other theater. It really is. I don't know how it happened, tell the truth, because no one really knew what they were going in to see. And fight films are not popular with women at all. At all. and no one was buying my pleas to describe this as a love story with a guy who's a bad fighter. That's what it is.

56:55Ian Wright: There's only two fights, right at the start and at the end. Yeah, there's like six and a half minutes. Yeah.

57:02Gary Neville: It was.

57:03Ian Wright: I said it was a love story.

57:04Gary Neville: I asked you before, do you understand the impact that you had on everybody that was watching that film around the world at that time? To a point, but I swear to God, I'm telling you, on my children, I never really dwelled on it. And to this day, I'm still mystified that children, 10 years old, were influenced by that. This is a guy from the urban depths, not particularly articulate, it not particularly cute what is it you know and as you were saying it's almost two hours of just watching there's nothing really happening really until the very end with the training montage and all that stuff so to answer your question it's still a conundrum I love the idea but I don't think I realized how important that character was.

58:06I might have lost myself earlier on and believed it was me. No. It didn't want. Like, we like Rocky. We're not that impressed with you. I'll never forget I was coming off a talk show. And I guess I didn't say anything that would maybe endear me to the audience. Because at that time, I know I was not too savvy. And I'll never forget this one woman I'm crying in the glasses. He goes, we like Rocky, we don't like you. Wow. Wow.

58:44Ian Wright: You think that's because Rocky was somebody that was almost finished? He was Lone Shark and he's almost finished, but he's because he can box a bit, journeyman boxer, and he's like a normal bloke that just got a chance. You think people saw that in them? Very, very modest, relatable, humble. he had in his own kind of like little punchy brain it was slowed down enough to really understand what the Adrian is about you know it's a sensitivity thing that turtles a dog how how bad can this guy be plus he continues to eat insults it doesn't you know fight back so the audience sort of fights for him yeah do you realize how many people do and started to become boxers I'm from Cork in Ireland, the amount of kids after that movie want to become boxers.

59:34Really? Absolutely. It had a huge impact on people. Thank you so much. I'm so astounded that here we are 50 years later. So I don't know if there is a divine intervention, but there's something about that character that it has nothing to do with acting. It has nothing to do with, oh, it's a hit movie. People really take something out of it. And believe me, guys, I wish I could say I was smart enough to go that was a calculated move. No. That's what people needed at the time. Yeah, because, you know, the same thing. It's an ongoing situation. Like there's people suffering in silence. When you realize you're never going to get a shot, and I've said this, I don't know if it comes out clear, I just want the ability to fail on my own terms.

1:00:30Like, put me in one time. I just want to see if I'm fast. Okay. At least I know I'm not fast. Then you can sort of move on with your life without that nagging feeling, I could have, I could have. No, you couldn't have. So get that out of the way. And I really think it's so important that people, for lack of a better term, get rid of that mystery. you. I know I could have. That's the hard part. And if you realize you can't, I can know, all right, maybe I made the right. I've told this story before. It's Jerry Cooney was like this great white bobe kind of guy who's going to fight at homes. And so he was training in Boston, true story.

1:01:20And he's big, six foot, two meters. And this biker comes in, big biker, Hells Angel, like the baddest ass in Boston. He goes, you know, everyone says I could be a heavyweight champion of big arms. He goes, like 290 pounds. He goes, yeah, I'd like to give it a shot. And they gave him, you know, 10 ounce clubs. When I tell you the fight was 11 seconds, including the count. It was like, I've been in that situation. When the pro turns around and says, wow, you know, it's coming from here, like wham, these guys, you know, banged down, stunned. Thank you. Thank you. Now I know I made the right choice to be an outlaw.

1:02:14Gary Neville: How important was the music, the soundtrack? I mean, it's unreal. See, that's what, he should have won an Oscar. It's timeless. He was like me. He was like a long shot. No one knew him, and that's all him. And not only that, they gave him one day to score. 100 % of films are scored on camera. In other words, the movie is projected with all these time codes, very precise. So they go, cut, right there, freeze it, and they know exactly where it's going to go. He had a wall, a blank wall, and he did all that hoping that it worked. Everything was in his mind. So he didn't see the image, it's just a blank wall.

1:03:07You know what I'm saying? Genius, one day. That whole soundtrack was like less than 20 grand. That he, that was his payment, but he had to pay the band. It probably made about$1 ,500 after all was said and done. Isn't that wild?

1:03:24Ian Wright: Unbelievable. In the audio book that we did, I finally got him to come out of retirement. It's the first time he's played 50 years. Because after that, you know, he'd be a composer, but he wasn't a piano player. So in the audio book, the music was playing, he's playing it. That's him. Wow. That's the first time. He goes, oh yeah, I'll follow you around, and I'll come in here. So that's his interpretation of those moments. Yeah, yeah. That's amazing. Why have you decided to do this now? Because I think, what's the use of being around here if you can't leave something for the next hungrier person?

1:04:08I go, here's my blueprint. This is how it went down, and maybe there's some instruction. I've always said that. Why be a parent or anyone? If you're not going to instruct and give them, that child, your 50 years of knowledge. And, of course, they won't take it. But that's the whole point is to pass on traditions. And if you don't, what good are you? You know, you're supposed to bring a child into the world and you're supposed to be, you know, covet that with as much knowledge as you can. That's what you tell the stories to. So I thought, yeah, well, at 80, I better get it out.

1:04:53Gary Neville: You must be very proud of these movies, but also that your longevity, what are you most proudest of that you've stuck around and you've survived in the industry? Yeah, it's very much so. Yeah, I have. I've had a really rare career. I can't believe it. It's changing drastically. The new actors or whatever, I don't know. If you're around 10 years, that's a good run. Because we used to make 200 movies a year. Now you're down to like 20. So if you're not on a streaming show, oh, great. But when that show is over and you work for four years, that may be it would a young person be able to do what you did now in 2026 no not a chance i really believe that films aligned culturally to the times that's just uh let me simplify if you tried to make the godfather today there's no opportunity there's no marlon brandon you know what I mean?

1:05:57It's a different, there is no young Coppola. It just came and it was a movie of that time. And today, what audience really wants to see The Godfather? You're talking about adults. I'm talking about young people. They go, I don't want to see some 1940s Godfather, Dahlian thing I can't relate to. But back then you could. Same with Rocky. The studios today, God bless them, are run by the publicity department and it's all about okay what can we sell this for how much can we get out of Germany and France in advances so the day of this this movie is nothing it doesn't quite make sense but I'm gonna go you know they you had guys that just took a shot so gut so somebody who'd come along with

1:06:52Ian Wright: of a script like Rocky and demanding, let me play the part, it will never happen. Zero chance, zero chance. The last one that I think you're ever gonna see that happen is Good Will Haunting. That's it. It's just a moment. And they also found the one production company that thinks like that, but big studios? I watched that film two weeks ago. Incredible hunting. I wanted to ask you, is there a role in another film that you look at and you think, I wish I'd have got that. That's not perfect for me. No, no. I didn't think I had the ability to do Coming Home. Jon Voight did it, a paraplegic vet, and I'm reading it and I go, I don't know if I'm good enough.

1:07:46So Jon Voight won the Oscar. then there was a film called Witness with Harrison Ford and I thought wow dealing with an Amish woman a forbidden kind of thing right wow didn't do it and then romancing the stone yeah I should have done that but I went to Michael Douglas and the thing is the most fun of course you'll think I'm nuts I've ever had on a film was with Dolly Parton, by far. It's not even close. You can't even find the movie. I looked everywhere. There's like a snippet on YouTube of a minute and a half. I love that film because it's the one time where I completely demystified, like, that buffoon is Rambo?

1:08:39Like, that fool is Rocky? I mean, he completely pulled out all the stops.

1:08:45Ian Wright: I felt the same with Copland, though, when I watched Copland. Yeah, that was... That was a pretty... I love Copland. That was a really well-made film and all the actors. That was a... That was a different character for you, wasn't it? Yeah. A really placid kind of... I wanted to be like the weakest guy in the room. You did, you did it. You did it in that film. And it doesn't sound like a big disability. When you're deaf in one ear, it's a horror. Your balance is off. You can't go to a restaurant because everything's funneling in here and it's just exasperated here here It's terrible. So I study with these Philadelphia School for the Deaf and they filled this year with silicone during Like you're laying on a pillow.

1:09:32It's completely silent You can't hear and then you roll over you. Oh, that it was it's wild. So that kind of So I developed this kind of infuriory complex and walking like a turtle. So I carried a small plastic turtle in my pocket. It's just always right before every scene. You're a turtle. You're not a jaguar. You're not a lion. You're a turtle.

1:10:00Roy Keane: Can I ask what it was like to work with Dolly Parton? Obviously, we've heard so many fantastic stories, but is there any that stand out? You, first of all, would have loved her. She was a genius. she's articulate, she's a raconteur, a storyteller. I never met a woman like her. For hours she would talk and self-effacing. And I felt that this is the kind of woman that you would marry, she'd write you a song, go out and build your log cabin, milk the cow, everything. And then get glammed up. We were very, very close. I had so much fun. That movie was so, it's my favorite movie. Yeah, because it wasn't popular, but as Dolly, you know that you literally, through any kind of protective, or self, like egotistic or whatever, you were a complete fool in that movie.

1:10:57I just wanted to be the buffoon that was supposed to be that character. Yeah, it was great. She was amazing. So sad.

1:11:05Gary Neville: what's fame cost you being famous cost you that people rarely see what's your thing that would say you've missed through having a normal you know guys blame fame that's really it's just too easy what it is is fame makes everything too easy too accessible and it just makes you spoiled in a sense You're surrounded by yes people, and you really lose kind of your touch with the people, sensitivity. And the main thing is you become intolerant. Like, this person is stupid. You dismiss him. And really, that's what power does to certain personalities. Actors are sensitive instruments, but they're incomplete psyches, which makes them good actors.

1:12:01They love to bury themselves in a character. When they come out of the characters, they get very unsettled and ill at ease. Put them on a set, that's the reality. Coming home, not real, not in control. So it can really force you to become this mini dictator. And I've seen it all the time. And quite often it becomes insufferable. It really does. Because I did it. Oh, shit. I had the entourage. I did it. I had the limo. I did it. That's why when I tell you a story, it's coming because I was the fool. I didn't observe it. I wasn't. What was that moment where you realized that was happening? Well, it was probably when it really hit the worst was the 90s.

1:12:59and like the second divorce, that whole terrible, tawdry time, that's when I felt like all the wheels came off whatever mystique or dignity you had or people had goodwill toward you, gone, for sure. So then you start to rebuild and how you rebuild? You do another Rockies. I'm serious. That kind of character, the hardest film I've ever had to do, Rocky V, with the box office disaster and so I just in my career starts to go down which all careers peaks and valleys peaks of valleys so it's really in the valley and I thought you know I'm sitting at home my children have never seen me act they think I'm a bad golfer that's my life and I said I gotta go one more time to the well and deal with something again not boxing Rocky Balboa and the stories about grief because up to 40 45 years old it's all acquisition it's plus from 50 on everything's lost people get older if you move away die disease it's not fun you know and I wanted to do something about that and again boxing was the metaphor where i i don't know how to get rid of this pain except to feel physical like it's like self-flagellation i need to get hurt i don't want to thank anyone so so i write the screenplay and the studios this is why to me it's the my crowning moment nobody wants to make it they would say to me it's like it's 16 years later rocky done and so are you so i get fired by my agency they said we can't do anything for you anymore 16 years between manager no and i go wow here i'm back where i started and i'm like 60 years old i said you know i want to write about this bring out the pen and that to get that movie made about a 60 year old boxer good luck that's like doing a film about a 200 year old stripper just not commercial can you that next for us

1:15:27Roy Keane: Oh my God. So when that happened, that is a miracle. That's as much as Rocky one was a miracle, a 60 year old fighter following Rocky five, which was a disaster, 16 years later between movies. That's why I think that character is something different. It's not like Rambo. No, it's just the opposite. I think a good friend of mine was in that Tony Bellew. Yeah. You worked with him. Creed. Yeah, Creed. Tony was such a natural man. Wow. I always thought he would be eventually in some TV show. It's like the toughest cop in Liverpool. He was great. And he's an Everton supporter like yourself? He actually wore Everton trunks, right?

1:16:17Yeah, yeah. You wore the scarf. Yeah. I did, I did.

1:16:23Gary Neville: What's the best piece of advice that you've ever received and what's the best piece of advice you would give to a young person today? You have to be, I think, a specialist. Say, I'm an actor. You go, what does that mean? Oh, you can play everything you can. You're not going to do Shakespeare, you're not going to do classics, you may not be good at comedy. What if you, and then focus on that. if you want to play villains you know this guy it's what your natural propensity some people just I'll give you an example I used to have this debate with Ray Liotta I love when he was in Copland why don't how come I never get the good guy how come I'm never the good guys are right you're just such a great No one can do it better.

1:17:15And he had a long career of being that incredible guy. That's what I'm talking about. And the other thing is really know your weaknesses more than your strengths. Just understand them. If it's your posture, if it's this, if it's a certain thing that you know is going to cost you a job. You know, because when you go in, the hardest thing in the world is to audition. I mean, these people watching you, they've seen 200 people. They're bored. They know in three seconds. They go, oh. So you've got to be prepared to try and try and try and try. The odds of you getting it, I don't know if you guys realize this, but the success rate for actors is less than, like, it's 98 % guaranteed you're going to fail.

1:18:12Maybe 99. Think about it. Of all the shows, put them all together, you probably have about 4 ,000 actors working, and that's a big number out of, like, 600 ,000. Think about it. You have more of a chance of walking on the moon without headgear than doing that. It's an insane occupation to pursue unless you just, like, I felt as though that there was no reverse. And I talked to certain people, certain really successful people, and like Bon Jovi or whatever, there was never plan B. So if we bombed, we would have gone into obscurity. There was, oh yeah, I'll be an accountant. No, there's no skill set.

1:19:01There's nothing. And that's a big risk, guys. And I've seen, oh, God, you go to do these seminars, and you see people in their 60s in acting class. And I think Tom Hardy really put it succinctly when he goes, and they talk about the Stanislavski method and this method, Sonia Heiger, all these different methods. It's really simple. It's convincing or not convincing. That's it, period. You're either a convincing person as an actor, like it just comes out. No, you're not. And you're not going to make it. It's that simple.

1:19:42Roy Keane: What keeps you going when you keep getting them no's? Is it like every time you're told no, you're closer to the yes? What I just said is that you don't have a choice. You just have to keep going. I used to paint these things about, you know, you're going down this road and the road is it's all self-emoliation there is no going back the highway is burning as you leave behind there is no reverse in other words that's what this kind of profession is and it's still all the arts it's a dancing is that painters my daughter go sorry for interrupting my daughter's not situation where it's going for self-tapes that's that's what they do now yeah yeah new york to the lee strasberg school right for acting and obviously what you're saying there is for young actors must be really difficult you've got the experience you've been there and done it but as a parent sometimes it is tough when they're doing a self-tape they do them on day after day and you're not getting that feedback or not yeah i'm telling you it's and there's no quick fix you've just chosen the most difficult profession in the world and it's going it's gonna get more difficult because of AI.

1:20:56I know. My daughter is an actress. I said, please get into gaming, do something. Please, because it really is.

1:21:09Gary Neville: We've got to wrap up. We've got one more question. Who's the best actor or actress of all time? Oh yeah, well to me, the best actor, not even close, is Peter O'Toole.

1:21:22Ian Wright: Wow. End of story. There's no one in the world that could do Lion and Winter and Beckett and all. It's just an end, drinking at the same time. Those guys, him, Richard Harris. Oliver Reed. Right, unbelievable. Today, I mean, you have some really, like Tom Hardy. When he does things, God damn. We've had the best, I think, hour and 20 minutes that we've ever had in our lives.

1:21:49Gary Neville: That fast? I think, yeah. And you didn't eat one ding-dong? We were told we had to stop, so to be fair, we would have carried on going forever. Oh, wow, I've got to go buy a watch. I'm going to the vintage watch store in Burlington, all right, my friend? Do you want to leave that one with us?

1:22:08Roy Keane: I'll look after it. Thank you.

1:22:10Gary Neville: That was amazing. Photograph. It was amazing. Photograph. Give a photograph quickly and then. Thanks so much. Thank you. Amazing, honestly. Thank you so much.

1:22:23Gary Neville: This has been a Global and the Overlap production.

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1:24:32Gary Neville: thanks to our title sponsors disney plus we'll see you next time