James Acaster

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2:17and physios.

2:19Lennie Ware: So you've got a new hit. I've got a new hit. Feeling good. Didn't manage to come on tour with me. I know. However. I've got a certificate now. Yeah. And I go through security if I set the alarms off. Okay. I can show it to them. Because you're a bionic woman. I'm bionic and I'm coming next week. Oh yeah. Mum will be in Paris. Yeah. Because you can get the train there. Yeah. So I had the most amazing tour in North America and Mexico. I'm finished in Mexico. and many people asked after you. Did they? Yeah. Mexico loves Lenny. Good. Yeah, it was an amazing experience. I'm really proud of my gang and can't wait to do it all again.

2:57Lennie Ware: We start Europe this week when this comes out. So where's the first one? Paris. Oh, first one's Paris. Yeah, and then finish all of my touring at the end in the UK. I'm very excited about tour. I hope you're all coming. Can't wait to see you. And I ate very well in the States, of course. Of course. I had some of the greatest dumplings of my life. Where? In San Francisco, at Dumpling House. Wow. They were so good. And now I will never stop thinking about the way that my lighting tech, Justin, his name is actually Justin Time. You're joking. Not joking. My tour manager looked in his passport. Justin Time.

3:37So his parents called him?

3:39Lennie Ware: Yeah. Even with the surname time? And you know what? It matches him. He's a kooky guy and I love him very much. And he was always just in time. He was just in time. Good. And Justin has ruined eating soup dumplings for me because he tried to give us a demonstration on how to eat them. And he said, you put it in the little spoon and then you bite the nipple. Jesus. Where's a nipple on a dumpling? It's like the bit where... Where it's twisted. Yeah, bite the nipple and suck. And I thought, you've ruined this for me just in time. Ruined it. And now all I think when I think about my beautiful soup dumplings is biting the nipple.

4:19Lennie Ware: Right. Anyway, so we have, well, we have our rival on today. He's not a rival. He's a colleague, a comrade. A peer. A peer. We have. And he's about to appear. We have James Acaster of Off Menu, the other very excellent food podcast. Yeah. Where we do ask the same question, if we're being honest. I think we started in the same year, but we have a very different clientele, I think. But it's a different approach. It's a different approach and we love them and we respect what they do. And it's Ed Gamble and James Acaster. Obviously, we've had Ed Gamble on before. It made me think about Soggy Biscuit with older Ed.

5:06Lennie Ware: Do you remember that? Yeah. Limp Biscuit. Yeah. So I don't know if James has got anything as disgusting as Limp Biscuit. Do you think James is a foodie? I don't think he's like Ed Gamble, but he does do a food podcast, doesn't he? So off menu. And obviously, if anybody's been watching, the most reluctant traitor ever known to exist. I feel for him. I feel for him too. So he's just been on Celebrity Traitors. He's regularly on Would I Lie to You, Taskmaster. He's, I think. Seth Meyers. Seth Meyers. Do you remember Seth Meyers was obsessed with him? Said he was his favourite British comic. Yeah.

5:42Lennie Ware: he's had Netflix specials I think he's had the most amount of Netflix specials for a British comedian and he's got a new one it's not a Netflix special it's on YouTube and it's called Craig Simmons and we'll let him explain it I'm really excited he's I you know what when I was doing some research I listened to his how to fail with Elizabeth Day who we adore and he's so kind of honest and brilliant and I am really looking forward to having a chat with him now I've done the cooking for today half we actually we've halved it i've brought over the main and one of james's very well known things is that he likes to eat cold lasagna well he discovered this in a time of need so i thought we've actually never served bolognese i think we did a vegan bolognese for lian lehavis no he did it for pre-covid was it paloma yeah oh okay we've never done a meat one so i've done a bolognese that i'm serving with rigatoni because i think that is the superior kind of fancy it's the superior pasta and we're doing it with a fennel orange rocket and pine nut and almonds because i didn't have enough almonds and like sherry vinegar salad just to kind of brighten it all up but I have done a play on Jamie Oliver's bolognese obviously everyone makes their own bolognese and I make mine but I thought I remembered when our gorgeous friend Felix White invited me over for dinner for the first time he's ever done that in my life and I've known him since we were eight and he made the most delicious spaghetti bolognese and it was the Jamie Oliver one wow and you do it in the oven and you do it with lots of sun-dried tomato lovely and rosemary and so I kind of added the rosemary and the sun-dried basil no basil and I've kind of added bits and bobs a bit of milk sofrito all that because he only puts in onion anyway made it last night because it's always more delicious the next day I don't think we've done a Jamie Oliver recipe in ages I did I did one a Greek one I did chicken with yogurt and then what have you done for pud i've made the alexandra is it alexandra dudley is getting a lot of air time we like the book it's great it's a great book it's that and the john gregory smith yeah our favorites so i did message her i've made caramel miso ice cream yum and i made it a couple of days ago we tasted it and it's got quantro in so she says because it's got alcohol in it will be soft scoop straight from the freezer so let's see okay well my daughter wanted to make cookies this morning of course she did so she made some cookies you can have a cookie with this ice cream exactly because i remembered reading something about him adoring his mum's baking so we've just made this quite a cozy yeah you know with our new friend james acaster okay have you got parmesan yes good james acaster coming up on table memories

8:52Lennie Ware: James Acaster. Hello. Hi. It's nice to meet our fellow rival.

8:57James Acaster: Yeah.

8:58Lennie Ware: Yeah, okay. There we go.

9:00James Acaster: Oh my God.

9:02Lennie Ware: That is very good merch. That is blatant.

9:04James Acaster: Yeah, that's blatant. That's me. That's Ed Gamble. You've met Ed Gamble.

9:08Lennie Ware: I have, yeah. We talked about Olymp Biscuit.

9:11James Acaster: Yeah, it was a shame that Ed Gamble...

9:13Lennie Ware: Sorry there about that. I'm wondering what you've got for us.

9:17James Acaster: Jessica it's going to be a classy episode

9:20Lennie Ware: whether it's Biscuit's limp or not no mum Jesus Christ okay well it's really nice to have you we actually do really admire what you do thank you you've got really good skin

9:30James Acaster: thank you mate that's nice I thought your hair beautiful yeah but I thought your hair would be redder yeah yeah people do think that yeah I thought that you were really you know yeah on certain TV sets and stuff it looks redder looks redder yeah yeah yeah And I've been claimed, like the ginger community have claimed me. Oh, they have. And I don't want to shun them because I am an ally. I like them. Yeah, you like them, obviously. You know, and saying I'm not ginger makes it sound like I think it's a bad thing, which I don't. No. But I'm just factually not. You're not? You know. How would you describe the colour of your hair?

10:04James Acaster: It was gradually getting just grey and white. Oh, was it blonder before? Yeah, very blonde and then like a bit of a brownie blonde. and now it's a bit of a... So how would your mum describe it when you were little, the colour of your hair? Strawberry blonde. She just called me blonde. No, strawberry blonde wasn't a thing really in my... Okay. No one said that in Kettering. Kettering. Kettering where they make the shoes. Yes, thank you.

10:29Lennie Ware: What about... It's very famous.

10:32James Acaster: First boots of Everest were made in Kettering. Yeah. Edmund Hillary's boots. The shoes are very big round there. Is it Wellingbro... Wellingbrook's nearby. Wellingbrook's nearby. Do you walk a lot there? Lots of walking. Is that why they make shoes there, Jessie?

10:46Lennie Ware: No. I don't know. No, they all go barefoot, darling. No, they don't.

10:50James Acaster: No, it's just where the fat... I mean...

10:52Lennie Ware: I don't know. It's where all the... There were the famous shoemakers and the tanner... People doing tanner. You know what? Just get the jacket off so we can really see the merch. I actually think it's fantastic merch. It's probably cold. But the jacket is great too.

11:05James Acaster: I quite like the jacket.

11:06Lennie Ware: Yeah, fair enough. I mean, it's just obscuring your face. So I've just got...

11:10James Acaster: Just Ed.

11:10Lennie Ware: Just got Ed looking like he's in the twink. Don't have Ed. Shoved him over, that's it. There we go. It's really good merch. Who did you have?

11:16James Acaster: And we're wearing our own merch on the thing as well.

11:20Lennie Ware: Now, listen, can we just talk about this? I don't know if I talked about this on the Ed Gamble episode.

11:25James Acaster: Yeah.

11:26Lennie Ware: I think we've been going for a similar time. I think so. Potentially, you may have started just before us.

11:32James Acaster: 2018?

11:33Lennie Ware: 2018. I think we were earlier, 2017. No, we were 2017. Oh, sorry, we did beat you, though. Yeah. So, did you listen to our podcast? And then you copied us. And then think of the really original idea of Last Supper.

11:46James Acaster: Talking about food. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, we copied you.

11:49Lennie Ware: I can admit that. Would you describe yourself as a foodie?

11:53James Acaster: Yes. Oh, you would?

11:55Lennie Ware: Yeah, I'd love it. But isn't that hard to talk about when you've got Ed Gamble, Great British Menu? Were you pissed off when he got that gig?

12:01James Acaster: No, no. I was. I wouldn't want to do that. I would love it.

12:04Lennie Ware: He said it was a task.

12:06James Acaster: Yeah. Why would you not like it? It's cold by the time it gets to you. Is it? Yeah. Is it? Yeah. Most of it's cold by the time it gets to you. You're just waiting around all day for another cold dish. Are you kidding me? That's true. I live in hell. Never thought about it like that. Awful career. I've always been so jealous. And now I'm not. Yeah, you should have been jealous of Ed. You've relieved me of my jealousy. Yeah.

12:30Lennie Ware: So let's just go back. I mean, we've got lots to talk about. Craig. We've got Craig to talk about. Craig Simon. Sweet Craig. Poor Craig. You feel sorry for Craig? Yeah, I do. Are we supposed to feel sorry for Craig? No, I don't think so. He's a bit of a nebbish. Well, hold on, isn't Craig... Craig is imitating somebody else, someone else. Okay, you know what, let's just talk about Craig. Yeah. We're going to talk about other stuff too, like, you know, the success of Off Menu and the fact that you're, like, one of the biggest British comedians that's had the most amount of Netflix specials, I think, as a British comedian, wasn't that?

13:06Lennie Ware: I don't know.

13:07James Acaster: At once. he's in the words of Ron Burgundy he's kind of a big deal didn't think you were going to quote Anchorman do you like that I did like it I save it for a lot of people we're going to go into afternoon delight

13:20Lennie Ware: you know Anchorman

13:21James Acaster: where they're fighting the bears no I've forgotten go and tell me at the end of Anchorman they go to the zoo and the finale is like they fall in the bear pit and then the news team are fighting these bears they're real bears that are actually there with them how did you know that I did a film with Paul Rudd I asked him about it. Did you?

13:40Lennie Ware: Is he so handsome? And ageless. So handsome. What was the film you did?

13:45James Acaster: I did a Ghostbusters film. Oh, the remake? Yeah, one of the reboots.

13:51Lennie Ware: With Kirsten Wiig and Kristen Wiig?

13:53James Acaster: No, I'd also have loved to have done that. But we did the one after that, which was like another reboot of it. So you're an actor? No, but I've been allowed to act sometimes as a stand-up. Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah. Sometimes stand-up comedians get, they go, I'll go, have a go at it. So he knew that they were real bears? He said they were real bears. They went in with the real bears. And he wasn't fucking with you? He wasn't fucking with me, because I've also seen Will Ferrell talk about it in interviews and how one of the bears charged at Christina Applegate.

14:23Lennie Ware: Oh, my God.

14:24James Acaster: Yeah, so it was like, they're real bears. Very exciting. The end of the bank, I mean. Why would they do that to their well-insured cast members?

14:34Lennie Ware: I think that would have been more revenant.

14:35James Acaster: do you know what I mean? Yeah.

14:37Lennie Ware: And come out.

14:37James Acaster: It could have been, it could have gone very revenant at the end.

14:40Lennie Ware: Okay, well back to you and your achievements. Now I know that you've played a detective.

14:47James Acaster: Yeah.

14:48Lennie Ware: That kind of masters it. Yeah, so this is maybe a theme of yours, but tell me, yeah, where did Craig come from?

14:54James Acaster: So I wanted to do a new show. I just wanted the show to be as silly as possible. I did a work in progress that was just a bunch of unconnected jokes and I felt a bit bored at the end of it. I felt like I don't know if I'd want to watch that feels a bit boring and I simultaneously had a cartoon series turned down uh by a streamer and the idea of that there was loads of different ideas in that cartoon series that got turned down at different points and one of them was like a performer and his relationship with his tribute act and I really liked that and when they said no to it I was like but I think there's something there and often as a stand-up because you can just do whatever you want you do just go that idea that I got told wasn't going to be good I'm just going to do it in stand-up and see what happens so I had all these jokes that I thought were funny but weren't framed in a way that I thought was entertaining I had this device that had been like turned down that I wanted to explore so I just put them together I was like I'm going to say that I'm the UK's number one James Acaster tribute at Craig Simons and I'm going to do all this material under that kind of like lens and see what happens and like yeah it was really I mean

16:00Lennie Ware: it up and a lot of fun you did I also think like um you are a very generous performer but also you're quite like you're very physical yeah yeah especially at the beginning like is that a way I mean is that Craig or is that kind of how because then I watched I watched repertoire and that like you have a similar like energy but yeah I also think of you as quite deadpan and yeah I think of you yeah very dead watching you on stage as opposed to I guess listening to you

16:30James Acaster: and yeah you want to open the show yeah you want the you want the show to feel like like this is the beginning of it and a lot of the time i try and do that with just me and not like you know you know coming in on like the back of an elephant or whatever you want to just like try and do something so yeah with this one it was well the show has to start by showing the audience what the tribute act is before you start to get to know craig it has to be well what does he actually do and you can only get that across by showing it to them. So I just based it on every impression of me that I'd seen on the internet or that fans had come up to me and done, which is always just over the top, really all like, you know, the voice is just mad and the physicality is often exaggerated as well.

17:12James Acaster: And I was like, I'm just going to do that at the beginning. You kind of had to really.

17:16Lennie Ware: I want to go back to that, but I also wonder whether there's something about like that level of performance and you coming from like a music background and not like getting ready for like the big opener of a show yeah i don't know but anyway

17:29James Acaster: are you still playing music yeah um i don't i don't play as often as i'd like i release music drums i used to teach the drums before i did stand up i just just used to drum all day i've released some music this year a couple of weeks ago but that was i didn't play it recently i played it in 2007 that's me playing when i was like in a band before i even started stand up Why have you released... The wow scenario.

17:55Lennie Ware: The wow scenario.

17:55James Acaster: We had an audience member who was quite drunk trying to explain to us that we didn't have the X Factor, but he was too drunk to remember the term. But you had the wow, not the wow scenario. So he couldn't remember the term X Factor. So he was telling us you don't have the wow scenario, you need to get the wow scenario, guys. So then we called ourselves that.

18:08Lennie Ware: It's a good name.

18:10James Acaster: Yeah, it's a funny name. Yeah. And like, if it gets across like the spirit of what we were doing. Do you sing as well? There was just two of us in the band. Oh, just two? And we loved the Beach Boys. so we were like we want to be able to sing as good as the beach boys and we had a first band practice we recorded ourselves singing um i think salute john b did you sound like acapella i was very bad tone deaf and i hadn't i wasn't aware that i was tone deaf until i listened back to it so then i went for singing lessons i had singing lessons for seven years and it got me to the point where as good as the average person singing in their car along to the radio i'd say okay but it It was a very, very long...

18:48James Acaster: That was a big improvement. The first lesson she told me, five minutes in, she stopped playing the piano while I was doing scales, but when she said, I can't teach you. Oh. You have to go. I can't teach you. That's a bit unkind. I said, give me a week. And if I've improved even a little bit by next week, this is when I was like 17, I think, then you've got to teach me. Why were you so keen to sing? Because there was two of us. Ketrin is like, there's not like, you're not like tripping over singers in the street. Oh, right. So you couldn't find another singer. We've got to do this ourselves. Oh, wow.

19:18James Acaster: If we don't do it, no one's going to do it. Meets must. Was the lead singer good? He was much better than me. Of course. I was talking to him last night because, you know, we've released this music now and we both live in different, he lives in a different country now, so we were like, he just won't want me to say. He's very private. Yeah. But we had a FaceTime last night and he was like, we were reminiscing about that. And he was definitely a better singer. And bits of him are still on the album singing, but we mainly replaced the vocals. So while, Wow Scenario. The Wow Scenario is now out on an album.

19:49That's out. The album's out there. What's the album called?

19:51James Acaster: Stand in the Star, A Verse and a Chorus, which is what pop idol producers used to say to the contestants before they went to audition. What did they say? Just say it again. They say Stand in the Star, A Verse and a Chorus is what they get to.

20:05Lennie Ware: Oh, is that what you did, Jess? My mum made me go for pop idol.

20:09James Acaster: Oh, hello.

20:09Lennie Ware: I didn't even get past the producers.

20:13James Acaster: Showed them.

20:14Lennie Ware: Yeah. Yeah.

20:15James Acaster: Yeah, look at you now.

20:16Lennie Ware: Doing a podcast. Smash album after smash album. You're very sweet. Anyway, my mum made me, she meant, you, because we loved Will Young so much.

20:25James Acaster: Who doesn't?

20:26Lennie Ware: We were so rooting for him. I remember I was working at Peter Jones on the perfumery counter. It must have been 15, 16. We were so, we voted so many times for Will Young. You voted, you actually voted. Yes, we were committed.

20:41James Acaster: Because so many people watch those shows.

20:44Lennie Ware: And don't vote. Don't pick up the phone And then they complain Oh mate Don't even Like all the fucking Strictly lot I know

20:50James Acaster: Yeah Did you vote? No well shut up

20:51Lennie Ware: Yeah shut the fuck up So anyway My mum's like You've got to go for it And I said Mum I've got I've got my AS's And it's kind of around the time And I think maybe I should be focusing on that Who went with you? Carla My friend Carla Who loved Will Young too And How is it? Let me tell me

21:08James Acaster: I don't even touch my lips yet Saw that you clocked it I'm really worried Knew I was getting asked that I knew before this has even got in.

21:16Lennie Ware: It's nice. OK. Better with food.

21:19James Acaster: Yeah.

21:20Lennie Ware: Do you want to know what we're having?

21:21James Acaster: No. Surprise me.

21:22Lennie Ware: Are you hungry? I'm starving. Yeah. OK. Jessie, it's nearly quarter to two. Oh, fuck. Well, yeah, James was late. That's why.

21:29James Acaster: This is such a different vibe to off menu. Did you think it was going to be like this? No. You thought it was going to be more organised? Maybe. Professional. But I wouldn't want it to. I'm loving it. This is what I like. darling i've got to ask you about traitors a very important question and it's about the food yeah so i think i've just learned that that breakfast you've already had your breakfast when you walk in so when ramesh is eating one piece of one kind of quarter of a white toast he's not really eating breakfast yeah but you you have breakfast in the hotel when you wake up and then you go in but like the hotel is about an hour away from the castle so you have you wake up you have your breakfast in the hotel then wardrobe come and sort out what you're wearing for the day and then you have a shower get ready get yeah get in the car an hour getting in there then you wait around in rooms while they tell someone that they're murdered so that bloody breakfast might be more of a brunch really okay so are you ready for a bit of a bite yeah i would always have the boiled eggs with some salt and pepper.

22:37James Acaster: I'd look forward to that. And was it cold or hot? Cold. Cold. Everything was cold. Everything was cold. But like, I still look forward to those eggs. And what about the lunch? Was that any good? Well, I think it was fine. It wasn't great catering. Some people would tell you it was awful, but like, I actually thought it was fine. And can you have a drink whenever you want? No. You're allowed two drinks maximum in the evening. but really it's one.

23:04Lennie Ware: It's not Love Island. It's like you're not going to start shagging in the library.

23:08James Acaster: But they want that on Love Island so that's fine. Yeah, so that's why they're giving them loads of drink on that. With our one, if someone, and not that this worked out very well for them, but if someone gets a bit loose-lipped and drunk they might just go, whatever, I'm a traitor and tell everyone. So they want you all sober.

23:23Lennie Ware: So you just saved that for the round table.

23:26James Acaster: I did the round table. Richard did it at the beginning. No alcohol required. But yeah, that's why they don't want people just getting hammered. Oh, right. Because then people might then just like... But then after the round table... You go home. And you don't get a drink then either. You do. That's when your drink is, is after the round table. Only one drink? Two, but they kind of delay the second one. I think that's really awful. And then you kind of ask for your second one, but it kind of doesn't really come for until you finish filming. I wouldn't want to go on it. That's why you wouldn't want to go on it.

23:57I couldn't manage it.

23:58James Acaster: So the reason you couldn't go on it is because... Absolutely not. That's the thing. That's the thing for me, I'm telling you.

24:04Lennie Ware: What if they allowed you three drinks? Yeah, maybe.

24:08James Acaster: So you'd have to negotiate that before you go in. I'd have to negotiate that. Yeah, that you have a third drink. Yeah, it'd be a real deal-breaker for me. Yeah. Because I think you... I think you probably shouldn't go on. I think I probably shouldn't. For that reason. But I think you need to relax, actually, a little bit. Yeah, yeah, I think that's an important part of those shows. Yeah. Who was your best friend there? Romesh Ranganathan. So Romesh is your best mate? Yeah, but you know him before, didn't you? Yeah, yeah. I just walk in and stand next to Romesh. Romesh won because I wasn't ever going to murder him.

24:41Or let them murder him.

24:43James Acaster: No. I was like, I need Romesh to be here so I can hang out with him. That's because of me, that he won. It's all down to you? Yeah. He was a calm presence. It was great to go and just stand with Rom. equally didn't seem to, you know, be overly fussed about who won it, but did want to play the game. That was where we both were. Wanted to play, but it wasn't life or death. Had you watched it before? I had, yeah. I'd watched all of it, yeah, yeah. Did you watch the non-celebrity one as well? Yeah, I'd watched that. Is it something you'd play at Christmas? No. Okay. No. I've played, you know, similar games, Matthew and stuff and Werewolf.

25:19James Acaster: I've played those with my name. Okay. That's fun. Yeah, yeah.

25:22Lennie Ware: So, James, we all know about your love of cold lasagna. Yeah. And whilst I didn't want to serve you a cold lasagna, I actually realised so many people have said for their last supper, which I'm sure that you have on off menu, they've put spag bol.

25:37James Acaster: Yes.

25:37Lennie Ware: Homemade spag bol. Yeah. So I decided that on quite a chilly day, we're having spag bol. I wasn't... You can't go wrong, I don't think.

25:47James Acaster: Yeah, sure.

25:47Lennie Ware: Well, potentially I can, but we'll find out.

25:50James Acaster: That'd be historic if you'd make the mess of spag bol up after. I know. So many episodes of cooking.

25:54Lennie Ware: But I did do it differently.

25:55James Acaster: Yeah.

25:57Lennie Ware: I'm sure you have your way to doing the spag bowl. I actually did Jamie Oliver's kind of version. Kind of did Jamie Oliver's version where you do it in the oven. And you do loads of sun-dried tomato in it. Lots of wine. And rosemary. So.

26:12James Acaster: Love it.

26:13Lennie Ware: Whilst we eat, you can start thinking about your last supper. How many times has your last supper changed whilst doing off-menu?

26:21James Acaster: Oh, yeah. Quite a lot. We change it pretty regularly, pretty routine. We do our own menus every 100 episodes. But it's not really Last Supper, you know, because it's like... I know, every 100 episodes. How many hundreds have you done? We've recorded over 400. I don't think the 400th one's gone out yet. Or has it? Maybe it has. I don't know.

26:40Lennie Ware: Are you still enjoying it? Yeah. It's a pleasure, isn't it?

26:44James Acaster: Yeah, it's a pleasure. It's an honour. And I feel very lucky to have something like that that's just like, you know, we just do it off our own back and we don't have to get permission from anyone and just really... Where do you record it? Have you got a studio? Yeah, it's a little studio in South London. Oh, South London? Yeah, yeah.

27:02Lennie Ware: How does it feel to be a bit of a heartthrob? I mean, maybe you've always been a heartthrob, but I definitely took notice of you, James Acastle, at that roundtable. I really was quite attracted to you when you fessed up.

27:14James Acaster: Was that attractive? I found it so attractive because I felt like you admitted your faults. Sure.

27:21Lennie Ware: You owned up, you acknowledged her, you got a bit of rind, parmesan rind, I'm sorry. Also, you got... Where? Parmesan rind, but I think it'll be delicious. Also, you got one over on them, because you said it first. Yeah. But I do think you were very attractive in that moment. Okay. I know that lots of people have said you were a villain, which I think is ridiculous, and I found it very attractive as a woman, that I felt like you owned it. And I actually feel like I couldn't have been a traitor. I would have hated confrontation. I would have cried if anyone said I was being a bit rude or weird or like cunning but I just found you very attractive at that stage and I don't and how are you finding the attention by...

28:02James Acaster: Because I'm not on social media

28:04Lennie Ware: Oh that's so good

28:05James Acaster: and I genuinely don't look at it

28:06Lennie Ware: Oh that's so good

28:08James Acaster: and with a show as big as traitors I'm too scared to google myself or look at the press so I genuinely haven't seen any of it unless it, you know the things that have properly got into the Zeitgeist or like any, any lines the press have printed have been reported to me by my agent so that I'm across it.

28:26Lennie Ware: Yeah.

28:27James Acaster: But, so it's weird really because I have a bit of a disconnected

28:29Lennie Ware: thing from it.

28:31James Acaster: So I don't, I'm not really, I know that those things have been talked about and gone on, but I don't know like how massive they are. And with stuff like that round table, I was like, after it happened, because you know, I didn't go in planning to do it, but after it happened, you go, well, that's never happened on the show before so there's going to be every opinion, every opinion under the sun about that. So you kind of already know.

28:52Lennie Ware: Did that stress you out?

28:54James Acaster: What?

28:55Lennie Ware: The idea that, like, because I've heard you talk about, and I can relate to this, I guess, because doing gigs and actually having verbal diarrhoea on shows where I have this thing where I'm like, fuck, I've said too much, or fuck, I didn't acknowledge that bit, or fuck, I didn't thank the support act. Yeah. You know, and so that feeling where you're like, well, that's never been done before, where you're kind of like, well, that's quite, as somebody who's on telly quite a lot,

29:20James Acaster: were you like that's good telly uh yeah a bit a bit yeah part of me thought that part of me was just like stand by it i don't care because you obviously get to that point as well where you know that the public will have um every opinion about it and you can't worry about the people who don't like whatever it is that you've done you know i went on saturday kitchen and punched a fake polar bear and got 250 something complaints to the bbc but like why did you punch a fake polar bear because um i didn't get the dessert that i wanted um and so i and they told me to go big when i discovered i wasn't going to get it so i trashed the studio is that heaven or hell yeah heaven or hell so i didn't get my heaven so i trashed the studio it's christmas time they had

30:02Lennie Ware: a fake polar bear there so i punched it in the face and you got 200 and something for a fake

30:07James Acaster: polar bear yeah people complained so i already knew once that thing had happened on traitors i was like well obviously some people are going to take the game very seriously and they're going to complain about it. Some people are going to be like, good telly. There's going to be a whole bunch of things. Yeah, but you see, all the girls love a faithful man,

30:22Lennie Ware: don't they? Yeah, exactly. I think it's actually been an incredible tool. You're not single though, are you?

30:28James Acaster: Not at all, no.

30:29Lennie Ware: Yeah, well then, I guess your partner's going to have to be fighting off all these women that think that are men.

30:36James Acaster: That's all she does now.

30:38Lennie Ware: So we should do this podcast properly. So we should set the scene.

30:43James Acaster: Yeah.

30:44Lennie Ware: You were born in Kettering.

30:45James Acaster: Yeah.

30:46Lennie Ware: Which hospital?

30:47James Acaster: Kettering General. Kettering General.

30:49Lennie Ware: And who was around the dinner table and what's a memorable dish from your childhood? I thought you were going to say who was around the birth table then. Good God. A couple of nurses, the doc, around the dinner table,

31:01James Acaster: me, my siblings, mum and dad. How many siblings do you have? Two. I'm the oldest.

31:07Lennie Ware: Boys, girls?

31:07James Acaster: Brother and sister. That would be the five of us, yeah, sitting down for dinner.

31:13Lennie Ware: Right.

31:15James Acaster: My mum, great cook.

31:17Lennie Ware: Good baker.

31:18James Acaster: Very good baker. I mean, we were all very dessert motivated as a family. So a dessert, I remember from childhood the most is when my mum got an ice cream maker and then we would insist that we just had it before she froze it. So we would just get ice cream poured from the ice cream maker into a bowl with like chocolate chips and marshmallows. She sounds fun. She's fun. She's a laugh. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's fun.

31:42Lennie Ware: Who do you think's funnier? Your mum or your dad?

31:45James Acaster: My mum.

31:46Lennie Ware: Really?

31:46James Acaster: Yeah, he won't like that because he tries harder to be funny. Oh, that's a shame. He's a great guy. I love him. But she's just naturally funny. You just got it. Sometimes you just got it. What a shame. I've had to work on it. So I'm the same. I empathise with him. She didn't go to funny lessons like you went to singing lessons. She didn't go to funny lessons or go into singing lessons. She had it. Funny straight out the gate. She was the Brian Wilson. Yeah. She's the Brian Wilson. We're all just trying to harm an ice with her. Yeah. Yeah.

32:14Lennie Ware: That was very beautiful. That was lovely. I liked that. So, ice cream.

32:18James Acaster: Yeah.

32:18Lennie Ware: Pre-made. We're actually having ice cream for pudding. I made it for you. Is that okay?

32:23James Acaster: Yeah, that's great.

32:23Lennie Ware: What's your favourite scoop?

32:26James Acaster: I mean, there's a lot of different scoops on pudding. I mean, I think of the classics, I don't think you can beat it. a raspberry ripple oh i nearly did do that oh my love it but then like these days anything that's

32:38Lennie Ware: like chocolatey and salty i've done caramel miso tick tick and i've made double chocolate cookies yeah because i heard you liked a cookie that your mum made yeah i loved loved a cookie that my mum used to make double chocolate chip cookies yeah get get home from school before my

32:56James Acaster: mum got home and try to have as many as i could out the biscuit bowl then claim that i just had two are you the person that goes out for dinner and you really are keen on the dessert before the dinner i will i will be excited about the whole dinner but i will have already looked at the dessert yeah so i'll have that in my head i'll have banked to make room and to yeah so i'm having that yeah i already know what does that whereas everyone else is like we'll see how we feel when we get there if we're going to have dessert i know i'm having dessert i know that's what i'm order.

33:26Lennie Ware: Do you look at a menu before you get to the restaurant? No. Okay.

33:30James Acaster: No I do like that element. Ed does.

33:33Lennie Ware: Jesse likes to plant. So what's a savoury dish that your mum was very good at?

33:39James Acaster: Really good at lasagna.

33:40Lennie Ware: Yeah.

33:41James Acaster: And a spag bol actually. Yeah she would do stuff like that really well. Oh my favourite was she'd do a sausage meat pie.

33:48Lennie Ware: Sausage meat pie?

33:49James Acaster: Yeah like.

33:50Lennie Ware: So like get the sausage meat out of the sausage.

33:53James Acaster: I think that's how she must have done it. So it's big like a sausage roll pie yeah puff or what's the other one um short i think it was short but it's quite flaky really buttery flaky pastry so maybe i don't know maybe it was puff she still

34:08Lennie Ware: does it now when we request it how is she serving it in like a quiche like pie dish or is it like

34:13James Acaster: a lot in like a rectangular yeah probably dish with corners cutting that into squares you have a big load of that with some like mash and some veg maybe gravy all over it This sounds really good. There's some onions in the sausage meat pie. Are you going there for Christmas? No, but I have done sometimes. Yeah. But then it's like Christmas dinner, but then you might have to request a sausage meat. I mean, again, with that, Christmas, at my mum's, it's like all about the snacks, the sweet snacks that are going to be in the fridge for the whole thing. So what's going to be there? So what's in the fridge?

34:46James Acaster: So like, there's a thing that just gets called fridge cake in my house, which is just like, it's just gooey chocolate and it's got bits of biscuit getting it in a tray.

34:54Lennie Ware: Yeah. Is it a Nigella recipe?

34:56James Acaster: It probably is.

34:57Lennie Ware: Has it got peanuts in it?

34:59James Acaster: Oh this one doesn't.

35:00Lennie Ware: No it's like a rocky road.

35:01James Acaster: It's like a rocky road, but gooey, it's really gooey.

35:04Lennie Ware: Yeah.

35:05James Acaster: We started grating orange zest into it. It's also a chocolate orangey thing.

35:08Lennie Ware: Oh nice. Very nice. Great.

35:10James Acaster: She does like a homemade like Reese's peanut butter cups thing. Oh my god. But just that in a tray.

35:16Lennie Ware: Oh no she's great.

35:17James Acaster: It has some raisins in it as well. It really makes it pop. those are great there's a third one of the absolute dream team that I always hope is there when I go back but those are the two like that if if one of us like couldn't be there for Christmas and Boxing Day and is arriving close to the new year she'd save you you're on your way there going I really hope they've saved me because we all love dessert so much you can't really rely my mum doesn't isn't really that fussed on dessert so you're hoping that she's played goalkeeper and saved something for you trifle I love a trifle. Me too. Didn't really have much growing up.

35:52James Acaster: Wasn't a stable in the house. Okay. Even though definitely that was my mum's era of cooking. Yeah. It was like, yeah, those 70s cookbooks. Love a trifle, yeah. With the faded pictures in them. Yeah. Can you cook? Not really. I can do little bits. Like, what's your best dish? I actually stole one of her recipes in lockdown that she did for this Thai soup that was like a coconut soup with like salmon in it. Oh. And noodles in it. And I make that pretty regularly during a green Thai curry soup. That was really good. I got really good at making that. And kept the COVID away. It kept the COVID away.

36:31James Acaster: Yeah. Apart from the times that I got COVID.

36:35Lennie Ware: Seth Meyers talks very fondly about you. That's nice. He's lovely, isn't he? When we interviewed him, he said you are his favourite comedian.

36:44James Acaster: That's nice to know. I didn't know that. I'm going to rub that in his face. Yeah.

36:47Lennie Ware: Is he a comedian? Is he a comedian? Yeah, he did SNL, mum.

36:51James Acaster: He's got brilliant stand-up specials. Yeah, he's the real deal.

36:54Lennie Ware: He said you make him laugh the most. And then I watched your Seth, I don't know, you've probably been on it a few times. I've watched it. The one where you had the New York, did you have like merch on?

37:08James Acaster: All the Seth Meyers merch.

37:09Lennie Ware: Oh yeah, it was the Seth Meyers merch. It was very funny, James.

37:14James Acaster: I said he made a dog cum.

37:16Lennie Ware: um i didn't so elaborate competes with lint biscuit yeah let's elaborate on that let's get

37:24James Acaster: a trailer out of it he'd done taskmaster live and he wanted to talk about it on the show and often on that show i don't tell them what i'm going to say which is nice they don't demand that they know what your answers are and but i knew that what the questions were so he was like did taskmaster yeah i did taskmaster live uh the other day and i said that the tasks were way more hardcore than they are for the film version that we do back home I said could I tell them one of the tasks you did Steph I was like make a dog come and then shit they obviously had to bleep that out but

37:54Lennie Ware: oh they bleeped out

37:55James Acaster: everyone knew what I said everyone knew did it land yeah it was the only bit that interview was a trickier one because I'd gone I think I'd gone all in on weirdness on that one so that was a harder one but luckily make a dog come took the roof off

38:10Lennie Ware: did your mum watch that it yeah how does your mom feel about it proud she just like you know she knows that there's no point

38:18James Acaster: telling me she's not proud she has to just go well done she can't say you let me down there you let me down there but i know that i did but like you know she doesn't need to tell me that

38:29Lennie Ware: do you luxuriate in the awkwardness not really no that's never been my aim i've i've i've

38:38James Acaster: learnt the hard way that I'm awkward through doing stand-up. You do stand-up and then you just learn who you are and however people see you.

38:43Lennie Ware: That's a fucking terrifying thing to do on a stage.

38:46James Acaster: I thought it was the Fonz before I did this. Where did you first do stand-up? Which was your first show? It was The Rising Sun in Kettering, a little pub. And that was when I did my first gig. And who came to watch you? Quite a few friends. Family? I think my sister might have come. I don't know if any other family members did because I was like, I didn't want them to come and get my first gig. Stop saying come

39:06Lennie Ware: when we've just talked about the dog, sorry.

39:09James Acaster: That's it. Jessica.

39:10Lennie Ware: You just said my sister, I think, it's anyway. My sister came,

39:13James Acaster: I didn't want the rest of my family to come.

39:15Lennie Ware: Yeah, that, okay.

39:16James Acaster: You got a problem with that? No. That's you that's doing that. Jessie's filthy. Yeah. Not me. Jessie always makes out of me. My mum is ashamed of you. Yeah. Jessie. Yeah, I'm sure she is. That is my mum. Grubby little mind. So you started off in the rising sun. Yeah. How many people do you think were there? I think there's probably about 50 people there. Felt like a million. And did you feel confident? Are you frightened? I was definitely frightened. I spent the whole day pretending that I wasn't doing it, just telling myself, I'm not doing anything particular tonight, I'm just going to go to the Rising Sun and watch.

39:44James Acaster: Okay, very casual. So the whole time when people were getting up and doing their bits, I was like, I'm just watching this. Oh, so it was like an open mic thing? No, it was a pre-booked thing. I was on it, but I was still telling myself, like, I'm just watching. Okay, fine. I don't have to think about getting up there, I'm just watching. Okay. And then when they said my name, I remember walking up to the stage and I could feel my heart pounding. What did you wear? Casual? I can't remember what I wore. I actually didn't used to think about what I wore back then. You didn't wear that little t-shirt with the bow tie.

40:13Craig's little bow tie t-shirt.

40:17James Acaster: That's inspired by Aisling B. Aisling B used to wear a t-shirt, like tuxedo, kind of get up on stage. And then when I had to find an outfit for Craig, I went to a thrift store in LA and I saw that. And for a moment I was like, maybe I don't get it because of Aisling. Because Aisling does a similar thing. And I was like, no, you should get it because of that.

40:36Lennie Ware: Did you ask her permission?

40:37James Acaster: I'd tell her, I'd just say, look, just so you know. I've got a t-shirt, tuxedo, you motherfucker. So we had Nick Muhammad on the podcast. Lovely man. Great. Awful palate. The worst palate I've ever come across. Yes. No, I think that's... I felt faint when he gave me his speciality meal. Disgusting. If you had, he said, if you had one dish that you had to eat forever and ever, what would it be? every day. And does it have an effect on you? No. No, not particularly. So it won't affect you at all?

41:11Lennie Ware: No. No.

41:12James Acaster: Yeah, I'd just have ice cream.

41:13Lennie Ware: Oh, would you?

41:14James Acaster: I would have... What kind of ice cream would I have? Raspberry Ripple. I'd have it. No, I think that would be a bit more boring. That yellow Raspberry Ripple.

41:22Lennie Ware: Oh, the Cornish, the Cornish cream one.

41:25James Acaster: Yeah, that you get in tubs at Sainsbury's and stuff. It's always yellow. You're not fancy pants about your ice cream. Oh, I am, yeah. I love fancy pants food. But if I'm going to have it every day forever, I'd want something that isn't too rich. Yeah, I think you're right. Because that would do my head in. Yeah, it would do your head in. I think I'd have to have something that, like, yeah, I like it. Tastes nice, but it's not like hitting me in the face. Okay, I absolutely get that. Yeah. And for your last supper, would ice cream be on the menu? Yeah, I'd have it. You know what? There's some murderer on death row ordered like two pints of mint chocolate chip ice cream as his last meal.

42:04James Acaster: and I really related to that. Did you? I was like, I'll do that. Yeah, I like mint chocolate chip. Do you? It's the reason I don't like it at all. It's like toothpaste. Come on, it's not like toothpaste. It is to me. You know it's not like toothpaste. No, I don't like it. No, I don't like it.

42:20Lennie Ware: My five-year-old who doesn't want to brush his teeth and has to have like bubblegum flavoured toothpaste. Likes mint chocolate chip. Goes for mint chocolate chip. It makes no fucking sense. Well, because you don't.

42:32James Acaster: He's trying.

42:33Lennie Ware: He's contrary.

42:34James Acaster: He knows what he's doing there. He knows that's not nice for you. No, it's not. Maybe get mint chocolate chip toothpaste. Maybe you should invent one. Oh, my God. You'll make a fortune. Crucially, what's missing from toothpaste is the chocolate chip. Yeah. I think it is.

42:52Lennie Ware: But, I mean, to be fair, if you can make a bubblegum flavoured toothpaste... Yeah, you can add a bit of chocolate flavouring. Maybe we could go mint chocolate chip.

43:00James Acaster: Yeah. Yeah, I think you're on the winner. Do you want enough taste in your mouth? Shall we go on Dragon's Den? Yeah, sure. Okay. I mean, I would like to see you go on Dragon's Den. Would you? Yeah, I'd like to see how long that pitch is. Yeah. You know, take a while to get there. I think Short and Sweet is better on Dragon's Den. Yeah, definitely. Don't you think? But more watchable. You two doing the whole thing. As pitching to Deborah Meaden.

43:22Lennie Ware: How do you think Lenny would fare on Traitors?

43:25James Acaster: Well, you said you wouldn't like it because of the drink stuff. I think the lack of alcohol is really a problem for me. I think you would struggle to get past just the production aspect of it before we even start talking about the game. Oh, they can't produce you. Well, no, just naturally it's a production. Just like the number of drinks you have or driving in for the day and not having breakfast a bit later, all that stuff. Would drive me a bit nuts. Yeah, they don't tell you what to do, but like in terms of playing the game. It's a lot of faffing. That's not as much as you would think. Yeah, the faffing drives me mad on any kind of production.

44:02James Acaster: Yeah, there'd be a bit of stuff that, yeah, I think, so you'd have to get past that to begin with. But I don't think I could do any of the... And then the actual game. Yeah, but some of those challenges... Do you think you'd be allowed to opt out of the games? Well, I, you know, I've just had a hit replacement. I would not have been able to jump out of a helicopter, that was for sure, and abseil down on a rope. There was no way I was doing that. Leanne was pregnant, she did that. That's wild. I know, I know. But I also couldn't... I wish I'd figured that out. I couldn't be buried either. That would have been great.

44:30I'd have had another spray down if I was buried.

44:32Lennie Ware: Would you have done the helicopter?

44:35James Acaster: I don't know by that point. Because, like, you're snackered by the end.

44:39Lennie Ware: Really?

44:40James Acaster: I probably would have gone on May as well. Really? I was annoyed that I got talked into being buried alive, actually. I absolutely could not do that. Well, the thing was with that is that they tied us to our partners. Oh, my God. No, not physically, but it was like, if you don't do it, they're up for murder. Which is why Hannah Fry. Yeah. So if they'd said, you're all being buried alive on your own, I'd be like, great, not me. And I wouldn't have done it. Because I would have been like, I ain't getting buried alive for this shit. But instead, you're like, oh, if you don't do it, Bella Ramsey's going to be up for murder.

45:08James Acaster: And then when you're also a traitor who's probably going to end up murdering them, you feel a bit bad. You felt responsible, yeah. So you go, oh, I better do it. And then you're in the grave going, what am I doing? Yeah.

45:17Lennie Ware: How long were you in it for?

45:19James Acaster: So they said 15 minutes.

45:20Lennie Ware: Oh, my God. That's telly time. But it was a lot longer. I couldn't even do two.

45:24James Acaster: First of all, they get us all under there. they put the soil on and then Jerry goes I want to get out so now they're getting out Jerry while we're all in there still

45:31Lennie Ware: oh you see

45:32James Acaster: then they had to set up a drone shop so you heard that through the soil through the layers you know like oh my god faffing while you're buried I'm sorry it's not a bit higher with the drone okay have we got that can we just check the monitor on that on the drone shop and then Bella and I were the last ones to get dug up oh mate did they hate it as well I think Bella coped for it much better actually than I didn't hear Bella complain about that, actually. But, like, I... Yeah, I was like, this is some bullshit. Yeah. Can't believe that. I agree with you. So, yeah. So that... But then... Before you go on, do they say, look, we're going to do stunts like this?

46:13James Acaster: No. So you have no idea what you're going to be up to. Yeah. And, like, I flagged up... Yeah, you can flag up stuff. But they asked you, like... So they asked all of us. They asked you a billion questions before you go on, obviously. And one of the questions was, are you claustrophobic? Yeah. And everyone went, no, not really. Now, I would argue that's a different question. That's a different question to, are you OK with us burying you alive? Yeah. I would say. Yeah, I agree with you. Those are two different things. Yeah, it's being in a small room, not in a bloody coffin. Yeah. Buried alive is.

46:46Yeah.

46:46James Acaster: Are you OK? Are you claustrophobic? No. OK, so we'll do the most extreme version of claustrophobia.

46:52Lennie Ware: Did you have like a little pipe for air?

46:53James Acaster: Apparently, yes. I actually didn't know that. but apparently it would have been nice to know. Joe Lysart knew and it calmed him down.

47:02Lennie Ware: Fucking hell. I know. Yeah, I'd just cry if anybody said that. I was a traitor.

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49:08James Acaster: This looks amazing, Lenny. You don't know yet. Okay, fair enough.

49:15Lennie Ware: That does look good, Mum. Last supper, Desert Island, six months. We've got Still Sparkling, we've got Still. What is your drink of choice?

49:23James Acaster: I'm going to go for... This is just what I want today. Okay. It's a speedboat bar.

49:28Lennie Ware: Yes. What do you mean a speedboat bar? It's a Thai restaurant in town. It's delicious.

49:33James Acaster: It's called Speedboat Bar. Yeah, it's not a speedboat bar. It's just called Speedboat Bar.

49:37Lennie Ware: And you go?

49:38James Acaster: I've been. Do they let older people in? Yeah, you can be allowed in. I'll be allowed in? it's not how you're imagining it in your head right now what are you thinking like motorboat mum I think it sounds kind of exciting and jet setty it's exciting but not in the way that you're thinking it's like a pretty normal restaurant pretty bright bright colours and very spicy food

50:00Lennie Ware: I think it's near Soho

50:02James Acaster: it's not in Soho but like it's just like

50:05Lennie Ware: one of those ones where it's like

50:08James Acaster: near the West End Yeah, West End. This is the kind of guy you are. What do you mean? Speedboat guy. You've never been. Why are you sounding judgmental? It just sounds as racy in the West End. This is the kind of guy I am. Can't tell me. There are a lot of spicy foods and stuff, but they do this drink that is essentially a frozen beer, like lager, with like honey and ginger in it. Oh, that sounds nice. That me and Jamie Dimitri just like... Frozen? Hold on, I'm just saying that. Well, it's like a slushie. Oh, my God. That sounds quite interesting. It was delicious. What, you and Jamie went? Me and Jamie, we went with Ed and Kumail Nanjiani, you like him?

50:51James Acaster: Yeah. The four of us, and me and Jamie got big into those. And we're ordering them pretty repeatedly. So I can understand a cocktail, not beer slushie.

50:59Lennie Ware: When you say you're ordering them repeatedly, they only let you stay for about a half hour until they want the table back. Yeah, you've got to be quick.

51:05James Acaster: Wow. You've got to keep them coming. You can drink them fast.

51:07Lennie Ware: Okay, okay. Starter.

51:09James Acaster: I would like because it's so I've never picked this for my dream meal and off menu but for my last meal why are you doing this now because it's nostalgic and I actually do want I want to if I'm about to get popped that's what I imagine is going to happen on the island so it's going to pop me in the back of the head you're going to be alright what you're going to be unless you're shocked he's methoded he's methoded I would rather if it's my last supper I want to die after not have this and the rest of my life eat nothing fair point

51:36Lennie Ware: you're starving forever that's a horrible

51:39James Acaster: all the rest of my life. Thank you, James. I'm a bit popped in the back of the head by someone. Okay. I would want every Christmas at my mum's and dad's to his credit. He's there. We have avocado and in the little hole where the stone is just loads of like garlicky prawn mayonnaise. Garlicky prawn? Nice. So there's prawns in this like mayo and garlic like Mary Rose but like with garlic. Is that your starter? Yeah.

52:06Lennie Ware: Can I just ask does your mum cook the garlic before Or is it raw garlic? Oh, I actually don't know.

52:11James Acaster: I've never asked that. I think she buys garlic mayo and mixes it in with mayo. Oh, it's got me like A.O. Lee. Okay, sorry, sorry. And makes a sauce from that. Fair enough, sorry. But I'd have to ask her. Anyway, it's a garlicky prawn mayo.

52:21Lennie Ware: Delicious.

52:22James Acaster: Prawns in the avocado. We have it every Christmas as the starter. And I think for me, if I'm about to get popped, that's what I want. Okay.

52:30Lennie Ware: I love that.

52:31James Acaster: I want that to reflect on all those family Christmases.

52:33Lennie Ware: Do you have bread with that? You can do.

52:36James Acaster: There is bread on the table. I never have it. I just have both halves of the avocado, and then I'll wait until everyone else is done, and then I always have another one. Another half. Okay, she always makes extra. Yeah, that's always more than enough. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's a great host. So, yeah, I have three of them as my starter.

52:53Lennie Ware: Okay, delish.

52:54James Acaster: Definitely.

52:55Lennie Ware: Main.

52:56James Acaster: Main course is the same. Every single off-menu, when I do my dream menu, the main course is the Beef Wellington from Ron Gastrobar in Amsterdam. damn i can't see myself changing my mind on my last meal when did you last have it oh man that is like when did we go like three years ago probably my partner and i went and that was after i've been shouting out on the pod a lot okay but like the first time i had it was in 2018 in january and i had it twice in five days i went back and got it and it's for two anyway

53:29Lennie Ware: i wonder if my kids would eat it and i'm going to have them they're coming on the tour what makes

53:33James Acaster: it special what makes it special i think they just get every element perfect the the beef in the middle is cooked perfectly medium rare if you had that as a steak on it's only one of the best steaks you've ever had they get that sauce around it sometimes it's mushroom the mushroom sauce but sometimes it's so thick at restaurants and it ruins the whole day you know your first bite of a beef on the dinner sometimes amazing with that sauce and then as you go the sauce just makes me feel sick. This very thin layer of sauce and a thin layer of cabbage. Okay. Around it. Oh cabbage. Very thin. Some people put omelette around it which I find weird.

54:10Yeah.

54:11James Acaster: That's mad. What like instead of a pancake? Yeah well it's not a pancake it's a crepe. It's a crepe.

54:16Lennie Ware: No they put a crepe.

54:17James Acaster: No no so it's pastry. No it's pastry. Lenny's right on this one.

54:20Lennie Ware: No I know it's pastry on the outside but they put a crepe. I've never made a beef wellington Okay, well, I've seen it and they do the beef. Well, we haven't seen it. And it's wrong. It's totally wrong, isn't it? I'm just going to fucking Google that now. Yeah, it's totally wrong. Okay, I'm just Googling this. I'm just going to join them. I'm not having it. I've got to sit here while this is happening. Your family must be very quiet and calm. Yeah, pretty quiet.

54:45James Acaster: We don't have any of this. And I don't know which is the healthiest, to be honest.

54:48Lennie Ware: I don't know either. This might be healthier. Oh, I'm so sorry. a crepe or pancake acts as a crucial moisture barrier in a classic beef wellington oh when

54:58James Acaster: you said so sorry i thought you were gonna make you a wrong no she's never never would do that

55:02Lennie Ware: that was really good i was because i was correct because i was correct now you're both quiet i'm

55:08James Acaster: not anything yeah i'm pretty quiet now i'm not quiet i picked the wrong time to shout um

55:13Lennie Ware: james has now become a shouting person yeah okay you just picked the wrong team that's the problem Yeah, I did. Okay, so you've got Beef Wellington. Now is it too fancy to take three children there? Is it a fancy pants place?

55:25James Acaster: No, no. Rongastra Bar is actually, yeah, a really good family place. The food is exceptional. Also your children might like it because on your way out, they just completely give you an ice cream, a little ice cream, a mini ice cream. It's like that big, a little cone.

55:39Lennie Ware: That's great. I love it when they do that. In Greece they always give you like a little magnum. It's great. I appreciate that. Really good. It's a good touch. Okay, brilliant. maybe I'll go there for you.

55:48James Acaster: The pastry's perfect. Like, the only annoying thing was when Robert De Niro came on our podcast, he didn't want to choose anything.

55:56Lennie Ware: So did you choose that for him?

55:57James Acaster: So we've said, how about, because he said, just bring me whatever's good. It's a dream restaurant. You can have whatever. So I said, I said, how about this? And then Ed said, would you like to maybe, you know, because he'd said earlier in the pod that he likes Wagyu beef. So how about, you know, we can make you that beef bunnington from Longastro Bar. But he owns the most famous steak place in the world. He owns it. You'd think he would know. Yeah. And then he agreed that he would have the Ron Gastrobar Beef Wellington, but he would like it with Wagyu beef, which they don't do. So you're like a dream.

56:24James Acaster: Ed then went there to Ron Gastrobar.

56:26Lennie Ware: And they did it. And they're doing it.

56:27James Acaster: They did it for him. And it wasn't even Ed.

56:29Lennie Ware: Pardon, Ed asked for the Wagyu.

56:31James Acaster: No. They heard the podcast.

56:33Lennie Ware: No, stop.

56:34James Acaster: They did it for him as a little surprise. There you go. There's what you came up with with Robert De Niro. And I was like, are you kidding me, Ed? That's my dream. That's really annoying. That's my dream main cause. That's really annoying.

56:44Lennie Ware: I'm so sorry.

56:45James Acaster: Yeah, thank you.

56:45Lennie Ware: That is fucking annoying. It's fucking annoying. Do you want to know what... Didn't Rob say when I asked him about a memorable dish from his childhood? He said, I don't have any.

56:56James Acaster: Great.

56:56Lennie Ware: I went, okay, go. He was born in Italian. No pasta? No pasta?

56:59James Acaster: Yeah, not a lot of it. People go on and on about, you know, in Taxi Driver, when he does, like, you're talking to me that that's improvised. And once you've met him, it makes sense that when he improvises a scene, he says the same thing over and over again. Yeah, yeah, okay, I'll get it. Okay, I'm going to see if they do the Wagyu for me.

57:19Lennie Ware: Should I go for the classic? Watch me text you and go, yeah.

57:24James Acaster: I couldn't even get a table.

57:26Lennie Ware: What do you think about them? It looks great. Yeah, okay, good. Quite rich.

57:34James Acaster: That's really good.

57:35Lennie Ware: Yeah, it's all right? Okay, great.

57:36James Acaster: Really chocolatey, really. And also, what's the bit of coconut in there?

57:40Lennie Ware: Yeah, that's the only bit that I'm not fussed about, actually. No, I love coconut.

57:44James Acaster: I like that it's in this, yeah.

57:45Lennie Ware: Okay, good. Mum, these are generous. This is like a very sexy pralines and cream Haagen-Dazs, which is my favourite ice cream. Well, it's got miso in it. Yeah, I can see, Mum. Because I try to be trendy.

57:57James Acaster: Oh, yeah? You're trendy enough, Lani. You're a trendsetter. Is it nice? That's good. Great. That's really good. Oh, my God, Mum. Is it delicious? Mmm. It took forever to make, so it should be.

58:11Lennie Ware: so enjoy it James oh yeah yeah this is delicious kind of blinded here Lenny yeah yeah really good mum this is great um so we've got the beef wellington what side do you have in yeah see this is where it's really hard because I struggle with I think I would actually no it's just last

58:32James Acaster: meal you can't have vegetables when I originally had that beef wellington I had it with a big roasted cauliflower and it was so good together I think I actually would like that yeah I'd want my last meal to actually go with each other yeah and not just yeah not just because like I almost was just like let's just do chips for the final time let's do the classic side the king of the sides chips french fries

59:01Lennie Ware: that's true

59:02James Acaster: so let's do it for one last time before I get popped

59:04Lennie Ware: do you want some more ice cream? no mum this is so good um i'm having a great time so are you getting the chewy bits oh yeah yeah mom look i'm getting the full range it's gonna take my veneer out i think you got a veneer i've got one my sister knocked my tooth out when i was seven got it yes and i had what i called rave tooth because it's when i was raving in like fabric and whatever yeah i'd be like that and I looked toothless because it wasn't a real tooth, so therefore the UV didn't pick it up. So I looked toothless in the club.

59:39James Acaster: That's a real shame, mate. It's a real fucking shame.

59:42Lennie Ware: And you know what's harder? One veneer is very hard to... Have both veneers. No, because I don't want to have, like, a fucking pirate peg teeth. Lenny's usually fall out every season. No, these are... Touch wood. Why would you speak so soon? Anyway, it's a nightmare for me. But anyway... You're going to have more, darling.

1:00:00James Acaster: Yeah, me. I'll still eat this one.

1:00:02Lennie Ware: I don't want it to melt. I love it when it melts. So, okay, we're going king of the side, and we're going for this beef wellington that does sound absolutely amazing. Not really bothered about the veg. Now pudding.

1:00:16James Acaster: Yes.

1:00:17Lennie Ware: Did we... Because mum kind of went straight in on that, didn't she? So did we actually answer this? Yes. Was it raspberry ripple?

1:00:24James Acaster: No, that's if I had to have something every day for the rest of my life. Okay, yeah. I think I would have the... And Joe Lycett's about to get shouted out here again. And I've said this as my dream dessert before. I've only ever had it once, so that's why I really would like it again before I die. When I did Travelman, Joe Lycett took me to the Basque Country. And I think it was in Bilbao, but it could have been in San Sebastian, because we both went to a restaurant called Atari. And they did a French toast that had been bruleed, that you could just scoop this French toast. It was so soft. And soaked in lemon, lemony milk as well.

1:00:59James Acaster: and served with a Dolce de Leche ice cream. Wow. And you can see on the episode, Joe and I eat it and can't help but start dancing because it just makes you do that. And it was the first time I've been abroad after COVID as well. It's a very special trip. I think about that dessert all the time. Apparently, they're tired of British tourists going there and asking for it because of Travelman now, but there you go.

1:01:23Lennie Ware: Okay, a few more questions, James. I'm really enjoying your company. Yeah. Thank you. It's been a pleasure. something that's so wrong it's right in terms of food what do you think Len? I don't know what he might think he might think it's something quite odd

1:01:37James Acaster: this is not a stock question on the pot it's a new one in terms of food as you've knocked out the park here I'm a big salty sweet convoy kind of person you're not going to like this Lenny I went to a place in Berlin it's like a dessert tasting menu but really it's that they're all pastry chefs but they are making you some savoury stuff. One of the courses was a caviar popsicle which was like an artichoke ice cream with like some, a caramel ice cream over the top of that and then like fish roe on the outside and then dusted with white chocolate. Was it delicious? It was so good. We did go to a place where we had ice cream.

1:02:21How are we going to bloody remake that

1:02:23Lennie Ware: on the bloody YouTube shorts? With artichoke ice cream?

1:02:27James Acaster: That's a very accurate description. I bet you can do it.

1:02:29Lennie Ware: To be fair, I have had ice cream with caviar. Yeah, we had ice cream. And it was. It's just salty, really. Where do you... Oh, we had that at the Prince Regent. Yeah. The Basque, yeah.

1:02:40James Acaster: I loved it so much. Okay. Yeah, really good.

1:02:44Lennie Ware: Okay, that was quite foodie, James. Yeah. Yeah. It's like you've got a...

1:02:47James Acaster: I said some foodie at the top. What do you think you learnt from traitors? Well, that's a good question. I learnt... What did I learn? Rommish Ranganathan's best guy I think that's it that's the main thing I learned is how much I love Romm not how to be more treacherous no you learn nothing from the game what is I would say obviously like any TV show the edit and what people see at home is a separate thing so the things you learn from it aren't really the things you learn are boring career things about okay if I do something like this again I'll make sure we sort this out and I'm more clear about that.

1:03:25James Acaster: Just boring stuff. Yeah. Like, okay, so if you get the breakfast a bit later, then maybe I should have... Had a big... Yeah, so that's the boring stuff you learn. But you don't actually learn anything playing the game. No. Really. I think... Nothing that I didn't know about myself already. Like, I've done Would I Lie to You in the past, that panel show. And if you've seen me on Would I Lie to You, it's on three episodes, and every time it's me, it's a truth. Because I already couldn't lie on that.

1:03:52Lennie Ware: Interesting. I wouldn't panic.

1:03:53James Acaster: But I'd try and do the lie and I just couldn't really do it, even as part of a little parlour game on what I lied to you. Your parents must be very proud of you. Maybe. Yeah, I hope so. So, yeah, I already knew that going in there. I was always like, I know I can't lie anyway. That's why I was going to be a faithful. So, yeah, learnt nothing. Learned nothing.

1:04:15Lennie Ware: James, we've loved having you. Thank you for coming on. Before we let you go, a nostalgic taste that can transport you back somewhere happy or sad i would so i really

1:04:26James Acaster: enjoyed there's a few years where i go to new zealand every year with stand-up and um there was a sandwich place called honey trap that did this brisket sandwich um with this amazing coleslaw in it and pickles and after two years it shut down and i couldn't get it anymore but i used to get off the plane go to my hotel and then walk down to the honey trap in this arcade and and have this sandwich um and that was like the first time where i got really stung by a place closing down and i can't have it anymore because i was able to have it once a year anyway so i'd i'd go that and then i'd be back and that point of my career and my life i'm just quite sentimental about because my first time like doing gigs abroad and actually selling tickets doing solo shows abroad never been to New Zealand before um is it beautiful so nice and they're really nice there it's incredible and people are lovely and it really felt like oh I think this is going to be my career now I'm going to be able to carry on doing it and that felt really good so like yeah that kind of I'd like to be transported back to that mindset and that headspace the special comes out in December December the 1st on YouTube on the YouTube channel is called Craig Simons Live now it has been pointed out to me because it's bad enough obviously my agents have their head in their hands that I've chosen to put it out on YouTube because I think it's funnier because I think that's what a tribute act would do would release their special on YouTube method yeah they're a bit annoyed about that where did I want you preferred it that I sold it for money okay uh to a to a to a platform or a streamer I might Robin Hood uh Robin for myself and uh So I was like, I want to put it on there.

1:06:10James Acaster: And then not only did I do that, I haven't put it on my pre-existing YouTube channel, which actually has subscribers and is established. I've put it on a brand new one that has no subscribers.

1:06:18Lennie Ware: Why are you doing this?

1:06:19James Acaster: Because that's what Craig Simons would do. He wouldn't be able to put it out on my YouTube channel. It would be impossible.

1:06:24Lennie Ware: Yeah.

1:06:25James Acaster: So it's on Craig Simons Live.

1:06:27Lennie Ware: Do you feel like Craig Simons is going to carry on? Like, are you going to keep on going?

1:06:32James Acaster: I can never call it. When I did that undercover cop, Pat Springleaf, I thought that'll be it. but then I did an audio sitcom about Pat Springleaf and I ended up doing it again so I think these things they come around and like with musical I did you might do an album and think that's it but then the album might turn into a trilogy or you might revisit that sound years down the line when you find yourself in that space again like you just have to be like that's there in case I want to do it again so yeah Craig Simons could come back I mean don't want to spoil it at the end of the special but it's more of a question mark over whether I'm coming back.

1:07:11Lennie Ware: Yeah, that's very true. Thank you so much for coming on. Thank you, darling. Best of luck. Off menu, still carries on and is fabulous.

1:07:22James Acaster: We're honoured to be number two.

1:07:24Lennie Ware: Oh, fuck off. I think you're number one. I think you're number one.

1:07:26James Acaster: No, no way.

1:07:27Lennie Ware: Listen.

1:07:28James Acaster: Yeah, it's number one. We say it every time we're about to record an episode.

1:07:31Lennie Ware: We respect you.

1:07:32James Acaster: Thank you. Respect you as well. Do I respect you more or less Having now done the pod Oh fuck Who knows Who's to say

1:07:56Lennie Ware: James Acaster on Tate Manners I'm sure producer Alice Is going to make a fantastic edit of that but that was all over the place. I'm sorry to say. Was that my fault? I think it was my fault. I think it was your fault. Yeah. I was a bit disappointed. Why? I thought he was going to have ginger hair. I did. Well. But I'm not the only one who thinks that about James. I don't know why. That's important to you, Lenny. It's kind of important because that's what I thought he was. Okay, well. Yeah. He, maybe traitors made him grey. He definitely enjoyed the meal. loved the meal had seconds yeah wolfed it down yeah that ice cream was fantastic it was sexy yeah it was good ice cream and i thought my spag bol was delicious delicious i mean you can't really go wrong no it was delicious maybe i should have gone more fancy for him i kind of didn't realize he was such a foodie i didn't think he was a foodie to be honest when he said in his guardian interview he liked cold lasagna yeah but i you never know well we would have done a beef If you're off-menu, Mum, then maybe you would.

1:09:03Well, we should have done a Beef Wellington.

1:09:05Lennie Ware: No, that would have gone horribly wrong. I would have competed. I'm going to try that Beef Wellington in Amsterdam. Are you? I'm going to try it. That is what I'm going to do. And I'm probably going to fall asleep before I go on stage that night. Thank you, James Acaster, for coming on. James Acaster's YouTube special is going to be on Craig Simon's channel on the 1st of December. I love that. Yeah. Good old Craig. his little outfit sweet little Craig you can also hear James reading James and the Giant Peach on an audible my kids enjoy that or you can see him on I mean you can listen to him on off menu every week thank you James for being a fantastic guest gorgeous guest still waiting for us to be invited on off menu but you know is it because they don't like two people at once I don't know it's either that or they don't like us but that might be it not sure not sure but we'll see you next week for more table manners.

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