Ashley Walters

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3:26Lennie Ware: Hello and welcome to Tober Manners. I'm Jessie Ware and I'm here with Mum. You're looking very glam, Mum. The hair is height today. Yeah, good height today. What have you used on it today? Just what I normally use, but I did my rollers in a different way. I went backwards, darling. instead of forwards sideways oh so instead of looking like a barrister when i have my oh yeah i put them all back the height oh it's worked yeah thank you farer yeah oh is it no just like it's nice charlie's angels yeah okay fine okay we have ashley walters coming on today who i mean i've known since he was ashley and so solid and that has been like that is if you are a londoner particularly a South Londoner South you know every lyric to that song go on tell me what is it I'm not going to do it what's it called what's it called well they've got many songs but 21 Seconds is the one where they got the high budget for the video and Romeo was a vampire do you remember I think it was like around the time that like Romeo must die just happened and Aaliyah done try again were you at secondary school I was probably in year 10 year 9 maybe I think and we loved them and we loved that they were South London.

4:40Lennie Ware: Well, they were Peckham, weren't they? No, they were about to see some of them. But Ashley Walters was Peckham. Peckham, yeah. Asha Dee was Peckham. And Ashley Walters has gone on to be one of our great actors. And now a director. Everything from Bullet Boy, Top Boy, Small Island with Ruth Wilson. Yeah. Oh, yes. And, of course, Adolescence. And he now has directed a film. It's his directorial debut and it's called Animal. Animal with an O? Yes. I wonder why it's called. I'm going to ask him that. Yeah. It's about a young offender's institution. It's a really challenging watch. It's upsetting. It's heartbreaking.

5:23Lennie Ware: But it's also got a really beautiful story in it too. Well, a few beautiful stories in it. And it's also got a really beautiful friendship and relationship as one of the storylines, which I found incredibly touching. Stephen Graham didn't tell us that he was in it. He plays, what do you call him, like a youth advisor. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And yeah, Ashley Walters is coming on to talk to us all about Animal. I hope he's going to talk about a lot of other things too. I don't think he lives in London anymore. He lives in Kent. Yeah, so I want to know about all the spots that he likes in Peckham because that will suit me.

6:02Lennie Ware: Mum, what have you made? Well, I've made what Stephen Graham told me to make for him. I've made sea bass with a kind of very interesting salsa dressing. And it's from the book. Alexandra Dudley. Yeah. Good cookbook. Yeah, it's a lovely cookbook. And it seems quite simple. The only thing is you're going to have a bit of fried fish while I'm going to have to fry the fish. Well, anyway, I've done new potatoes in this tomato salad that is mixed with kind of anchovies and shallots and everything. It looks nice. Where's that from? The same book. And then I've just done some green beans and some new potatoes without butter.

6:42Lennie Ware: Well, mum had a whole plan to do something else until she looks at the notes and it says that Ashley's lactose intolerant. Yeah, he was going to have a fish pie with a pint of milk in. And then what were you going to do for Pud? oh it was um cheesecake yeah so that's that that you had to rethink that and what have you done for pudding i've made a vegan apple and apricot cake well done for being so adapt i adapted with five minutes before my ocado cut off it was touch and go right well done ashley walters coming up on table manners

7:24Lennie Ware: Ashley Walters, thank you very much for being here. Hey, hey, hey. Thank you for having me. Thank you both. It's a pleasure. Does this area feel familiar? Yeah. Yeah. Totally. I grew up around here. My first girlfriend was from Clapham Common. Oh, yeah. Who became the mother of my first three children. So I've got like a lot of ties to Clapham. And obviously Soul Solid was all Battersea, Clapham. Yeah, so I've been around here a lot. and we all well as i'm 41 so solid was everything to every south londoner it really was um but um yeah i need to know what you did in the gym today so in the gym today what did i do i did five i do a 5k run every morning okay sure treadmill run because i'm 44 and my knees have gone um so what's wrong with your knee because i just got my mri if i run on the on the roads they're just i'm out of game for like three days it's so boring running on a treadmill though i know it is i have to do watch something i watch a podcast table manners oh no no i do yeah every now and then i've got like loads of podcasts i watch but yeah i'll just throw in a podcast which which other podcast do you like um i'm a big fan of like i'm a big football person yeah i'm a huge arsenal fan so i watched um football's 12th man there's a guy called dan potts that runs that af tv but i'm kind They were big.

8:47They are the biggest, probably. So I watch them every night and again, but they're slightly commercial. I like to hear the raw fans going at it.

8:55Lennie Ware: Well, my husband's a Spurs fan and he's listening to them just not knowing what to do. And he listens to those ones. We can't talk about your husband or Spurs while I'm here. You're fine. You're doing okay. Yeah, you're all right. I don't think you need to worry. And I saw you got Man United toilet roll in the toilet. Oh, well, that was actually from an Arsenal fan. Mum's kept it. Because, yeah, it's a white... It was a wind-up? Yes, it was a wind-up. Got it, got it. But did you celebrate? How did you celebrate when Arsenal won? I was away. So I was in, I was actually in Belfast shooting something.

9:27So I just had to watch it online, to be honest, the night that we won. But then when I got back, I did go to the parade with my wife and my two youngest kids. Of course you did. It was lovely. It was amazing. 22 years.

9:38Lennie Ware: Yeah. Yeah, long wait. Do you play anymore? No, no. And I wasn't good when I played. I'm not one of those people that know what I'm talking about. But I know what you were good at. What was that? Well, my mate was in Oliver with you. Oh, wow. Jack Pignate. I'm not going to remember. And I'm so sorry. Okay, so you were in Oliver. I was in Oliver. Like the first. I was in the first cast at the London Palladium. With Jonathan Pryce. Jonathan Pryce, Sam Mendes directed. And it was amazing. Yeah. It was amazing. Well, my mate was one of Fagan's gang, which I think you were. I was as well, yeah. So Jack was part of the Fagans gang.

10:16Lennie Ware: And so. Did he tell you the character he played? Because they didn't have names. He was a Blackheath boy. And he taught like a South London guy. Did he wear like a blue costume with like a blue hat or something like that? Yes. I remember. I had a fight with him. Probably. What, on stage or off? She got on stage. Okay, fine. That's going to be like, oh God, should I ask Jack? I'll ask Jack once. No, maybe it wasn't him. What was your character called? Mine was Hand Walker. because you got to make them up or not well no they were made basically we had like a north and a south cast so because you're so young you can't do all all the days by law so you had to split them up with another guy the other guy who was playing my character could walk on his hands so he had this little moment in the show where he'd like get start walking on his hands for like five minutes or something and i obviously couldn't i couldn't do it like they tried to train me up to do it but I couldn't do it.

11:09So I was called hand walker, but I never walked on my hand. Hand walker. So my son's been auditioning for Lion King. Oh, really? For Simba for the last maybe year. So he's just about to be called back next year.

11:21Lennie Ware: Is that how long the audition process? Well, no, but they're always turning them over. So they're like, it didn't work out for you this time, come back again in a few months or whatever. So he's got his next run coming. And I've been kind of rehearsing with him at home. How's that going? It's amazing. It's like, you know, it's my son. So I'm a bit biased Is he going to acting classes? He doesn't But we've had him in like little, you know, stagecoach You know, the little drama stuff that you have in your local area So he's been doing it He's been singing and doing drama since he was like three, four And how is it acting opposite your son?

11:55It's amazing We actually nearly ended up in the same movie So I went up for a big film It was like a Denzel Washington film And I went up to play his brother and the next day my son got the call from his agent to play my character younger so it was like wow i don't know it was such a coincidence did either of you get the part no we didn't know oh shame well it's still time cut that out i always get past did you go to sylvia young

12:25Lennie Ware: i did yeah i can't believe that you're still having to audition mate yeah it happens it happens it's how it goes i mean i mean maybe it's just for me i don't really talk to other actors about it now you're a director you can put yourself in well that's it that was the whole point of directing was like just in case the work dries up i can give myself work yeah well let's talk about we will talk about food in a minute but let's talk about animal yeah congratulations by the way it's the directing the acting is phenomenal and it slaps you around the face and is really quite upsetting to watch a lot of it.

13:02Lennie Ware: Whilst there is also like real beauty in that relationship between Christian and Troy. Like that was incredibly beautiful. And even the ending, that scene with Stephen Graham about joy, a shame. And so congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. I guess why, firstly, we both want to know why animal with an O, but that's just because we want to know. Yeah. Sorry, I just need to know that. Well, listen, I'm glad we did it because there are like two other films called Animals and Animals that are coming out like around the same time, which always happens. So I'm glad we kind of made a difference. But that was just Nick love, like the great Nick love.

13:46I mean, sometimes I don't understand a lot of the decisions he makes and we haven't really had a conversation about it. But I do know that I suffer with dyslexia. He suffers with dyslexia, you know, and it was, I don't think he did it by accident. He did it on purpose, but it was just to signify like what a lot of the boys, I guess, are going through in the prison. And probably had a bit more significance in the first draft because there was loads of stuff that we kind of took out, you know, loads of storylines and themes that we took out. And one of them was that Troy couldn't read or write.

14:19Lennie Ware: Right. So in the end, I didn't want that in there. can we talk about I mean why did you I think I know why you chose this as a subject but um can you tell us why you chose to do your debut um I mean from I got the opportunity to direct I always said that I didn't want to do anything that anyone would expect me to do I've done a lot of you know crime dramas and gang dramas and stuff and I just thought it would be so easy for me to go into something like that so I was trying to avoid scripts like animal to be honest but um but Nick was adamant that we had to work together and I had to direct this film and he sent it to me and I just thought it was beautiful and it was you know we have so many prison drama films that come from the UK we do them quite well you know but never one that kind of sees it from this sort of perspective you know I was I went to prison early 2000s how old were you uh well it's 2001 so i was like 18 19 i think so like was it a personal young offenders so i started in the young offenders i was on the cusp of the age group so i started in young offenders for like two months i was in felton for a month or so used to visit felton i was a social i'm a social worker okay so i used to visit it was it was tough it was tough in there i feel like like younger prisoners have a harder time everyone's got something to prove like older prisoners are more relaxed but anyway but you're going in there off the back of also being famous oh yeah yeah you are ashady at that point having hits so i can imagine that may have been even harder or was there a kind of power there i don't know like it was a huge target on my head to be honest you know and everyone had a had a point to prove i guess but i managed to survive that experience but it was i mean it was really important when i read this script for me to tell the story because I was really vulnerable in there although I was had this sort of gangster image on the outside I was in Sylvie Young doing theater and you know tap and ballet on the weekends and stuff that my friends didn't know about and my kind of jail time was a real shock to my family and to my close friends they didn't realize what I was going through so the experience was harrowing I was really vulnerable in there and you know in order to survive I had to befriend people and just like you know act a different way than I actually am in order to get through and I saw that in this script and I don't think I actually felt that from other scripts before.

16:47Lennie Ware: Without being too personal since you had success and things were going well what do you think went wrong that you ended up? Oh that was um I mean the music game and you know the music group that I was in although Soul Solid were really good a lot of the guys had come from crime you know they'd already been in gangs A lot of them had been into prison, you know, some for attempted murder. There was like, it was like a huge group of people that had one common goal to kind of get themselves out of the area and the position they were in. But there was a lot of trauma and a lot of people kind of delving back into it.

17:21And I got really drawn up in that. Yeah, I just got drawn into it. So I made some decisions that weren't great. And I was eventually arrested for possession of a firearm over an altercation I had with a traffic warden in London, which is like, you know. But yeah, so that all happened and I had that experience. And one thing I always say about life is that, which I know a lot more now in my 44 years, but I've never been in control of anything that's happening around me, right? You do the best you can do with what you've got and, you know, and you better yourself every day. But people, places and things, other things that exist, I have no control over.

18:00And I was trying to control a lot of what was going around me and in turn maybe blocking a lot of my blessings.

18:07Lennie Ware: Do you think they were making an example of you because you were in so solid crew to send you to prison? I'm sure. I'm sure I was tried by media. Do you know what I mean? I think that you would have got a suspended sentence. Maybe, maybe. I mean, it was a loaded firearm. It was dangerous. And I, you know, especially because there'll be other kids that age watching me, I would never say, you know, it was the right thing to do. So I deserved to get time. And I could have got a lot longer. I think after my case, they sort of changed a lot of the laws. And, you know, I could have got seven years for it.

18:44I only got a year and a half. So I was happy about that.

18:48Lennie Ware: Did you, when you saw the script, did you help them adapt anything? Being like, hang on, that isn't how it would have been. Is there any of your story in there? Did you weave any of that in to Troye's character? I think so. So I think everything you see visually is my memory of prison. I spent maybe six months trying to find the right jail because it had to look the way it looked for me. Okay. Didn't get the prison I wanted, to be honest. But that intention made everyone kind of want to get that image out of my head. So we kind of designed everything to the way I see. Even the kind of set up of the armbands that the kids are wearing and they're on the advanced beginner and stuff.

19:36That was from my memory.

19:37Lennie Ware: Do you want me to start cooking? Yes. Okay. And actually, whilst mum cooks, I understand why you maybe wanted to distance yourself from these stories. However, I do think it's incredibly profound you directing something of this subject. and also we both were involved in a fundraiser for dusty knuckle oh yes i sung there and you spoke yeah and you spoke and introduced my old neighbor on stage to show what dusty knuckle the bakery does max sends his love by the way i love me but dusty knuckle i feel like we talk about their sourdough all the time on this but actually what they do is really amazing and they help reintegrate young offenders i think it's between 18 and 25 yeah yeah post prison to feel like they can get back into society working so like you've been doing the work yeah and you are you speak about it you've you've written a book like i understand wanting to separate but it does feel right for you to do have done no no 100 and it's so affecting yeah i know and i get that and i think my avoidance has never been because of like the subject or you know what i can do to help but it's about the box that you get put in sometimes and as a director coming into it i was like this is my opportunity actually to be very selective about what i do with my acting career at some points you know you're like i gotta pay the bills next month so you kind of there's a job you don't really want to do maybe but you do it because you know and and i was like i'm finally in a position kind of financially where i can like i want to curate this experience and make it what i want it to be so i've been very picky about it but I understood the importance of this film and obviously of me directing it with the experience I've had and being able to relate and it was such an amazing process just like working with the young new actors they were so good did you help with casting?

21:35I did yeah it was like a long casting process and took our lead, he plays Troy

21:41Lennie Ware: he was so beautifully acted He was amazing. It kind of goes back to what I was saying about blocking your blessings because, and he won't hate me saying this because I was spoken to him about it, but I didn't want him. Oh. Because he was too tall. He's like six foot whatever. He did look tall, next to Stephen Graham. He's huge. And I was like, he's not going to look right against, you know, I need him to be vulnerable. But that's interesting because I thought of him as quite little until he was next to Stephen in that shot. And I was like, oh, my God, but that kind of, that was had even more impact I feel because he was this big guy but actually he looked like a scared young man yeah and it may you know if he could I knew he could get there and when he did it was much more powerful for that for that reason yeah and um great actor just a really really great actor instinctive actor and I was lucky to cast loads of great actors who all I needed to do really was turn them the camera how much of the film was improvised I'd say 70 % oh yeah 70 % I mean I'm an improviser I come from improvisation that's how I started an independent film with a director that was like never made a film before he'd only done documentary Bullet Boy which Saul did was really I remember going to the cinema as like you know with my husband who I'm still with who's a South Londoner us being like gotta go and see Ashley I mean you were Ashley Waters by that point but it was like you know we we went to the cinema and it was a brilliant film yeah and I feel like it totally inspired Top Boy yeah I feel like it did I mean it inspired a lot of films that came after that I think yeah it was kind of like the start of that sort of genre if you want to call it so yeah it was good to be it was good to be a part of that but that was a huge inspiration for me and I've had the best times on set when working with directors that kind of just set up an environment for you to win and just kind of let you go I mean adolescence was one of those which also you know i know that you don't want to be pigeonholed but i thought that was so exciting to see you in that role of the law yeah and you were so fantastic at it like was it am i wrong in thinking that that because you did it in all one take yeah of course but was it on your episode where you did a take and it was fucking perfect and then something happened at the end yeah it was my episode it was your episode there's something that happened was me fucking up what did you how did you fuck up so right at the end you know that in this episode two yeah at the end the drive i chased the kid i come back to my car yeah my son's there we have that whole conversation when i saw my son i called him the kid i was chasing by the name of the kid i was chasing so and that was right at the end and couldn't you have just done a bit of like um yeah phil came up to me and was like don't worry because i was crying because i was like you know the weight of that was like oh man i fucked up and i was so upset and he came in my trailer he gave me a hug and he was like don't worry we can do adr it'll be fine and next day he was like we can't do adr it's done it's gone and that was the next day was our last chance do you do you think which take do you think was better the take i said the wrong name on was like So annoying.

24:55Was the one. No. Well, you were still fantastic.

24:58Lennie Ware: That episode is like, yeah, it's a fantastic episode. You're only human, Ashley. No, I know. I know. I like to try and be perfect. So annoying. Well, we should talk about food a bit. Yeah. Okay. So let's talk about. It smells good. Let's talk about Peckham. Who was around the dinner table? What is a memorable dish from your childhood? A memorable dish from my childhood would be Mum's going to kill me for this But spag bol Why is mum going to kill you? Well because Was it mum's spag bol? It was mum's spag bol And it was great spag bol Would she have liked you to have said? She probably would have wanted me to talk about her more like Refined dishes and stuff like that The spag bol's so perfect But that was comfort food for me And when I smelt it in the house you know the memory of that and the warmth of it and kind of how easy it is to kind of play up for everyone and eat i mean we didn't do too much sitting down at tables to eat were you watching telly were you watching telly i was eating alone i'm my mom's only child and my dad's sixth um child um so at home was pretty lonely okay if i'm honest and i kind of really learned to love my own company, to be fair.

26:16So it was get my food from the kitchen, go into my room, you know, homework and eat and stuff.

26:21Lennie Ware: Okay. So usually if you were around the table, would it be you and your mum then? It'd be me and my mum. My stepdad was around at the time, my mum's partner at the time. And yeah, just us three, like, you know, shooting the breeze, really. I have a really cool relationship with my mum. Although she was really strict, she taught me to have conversations. So anything that happened in my day, there was like an extensive conversation about it. Anything that had gone wrong, if I was five minutes late, it was like... Interrogation? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was like, what happened in those five minutes? Well, it was just the bus.

26:56Well, what could you do better next time to make sure? You know, that was my life.

27:00Lennie Ware: How are you as a parent? The same. Okay. It's rubbed off. But a bit more, I guess there's a lot of guilt for me because I'm away a lot. you know i mean since adolescence i've maybe been home three months is that because of the success of it you're booked and busy baby yeah yeah so it's not it's not not complaint you know being booked i know but it's tough you know and you miss you miss key moments you miss things my my 10 year old son he's like we're really close so i know he kind of suffers when i'm not around and stuff so you know i like i'm really i try my best not to be critical like too judgmental too you know too strict i guess but you have to be a parent i'm i'm i'm the boring strict one are you i am and i'm the one that goes away more um because i sing as well so i um yeah i mum thinks i'm way too strict but i want them to have good manners yeah obviously i want them to be happy but i do think it's interesting i've got a 10 year old too she's my eldest and i feel they kind of even more so now they need us i feel like this kind of time yeah where they're working stuff out of course boys as well i feel like that's i'm terrified about my boys being a bit older too but yeah it's a pivotal time i know i know exactly what you're saying my daughter is 12 and it's like she's like 17 or something does she still want to hang out with you it's it's stopping now she's still like she still sees me as cool oh that's good and her friends like come to the house and be like oh really because they they kind of know as well so it's kept me in good stead with with her well yeah great but she's getting you know hard to she's getting cheeky oh she's getting cheeky you want a strong you want a strong woman right i love it yeah i love it i love it mommy doesn't like it can we talk about your wife yes i loved her in chewing gum yeah she's amazing she's amazing yeah yeah is she doing any projects at the moment she is she's doing bits and bobs here and there i mean she's she's really dedicated to her acting i loved her and that's so much i think for for women especially for black women in in the industry it's really tough if you're you know you go away you you kind of stop for a bit to have a child it's like starting from square one when you come back it's really hard to build it up and so we we've really been kind of dedicating a lot of space and time for her now to kind of push a bit more so she's writing she's producing she's kind of trying to push herself in that way and she's working here and there so but she's great have you got a production company i do yeah do you work together then no that's not gonna happen we haven't yet not that i wouldn't not that I wouldn't I know it would be difficult I know it would be difficult we are that couple we're a fiery couple we debate a lot we bicker a lot you know we have that sort of energy and it scares me kind of working with her although I know I would I would love to do it I think it'd be great for both of us and she's my best friend I always think about like awards and stuff and my speech in my head would always be dedicated to her because the sacrifices that she's made you know throughout the process of me getting there and also my you know my my addiction and my sobriety troubles and stuff like that so like we've been through a lot and she sacrificed a lot for me to do what I'm I'm doing so I would love to kind of be in the space with her where we could work together like that can you cook I feel like I can like if we were coming around what are you cooking us probably be like a surf and turf oh yeah okay that's simple like that looks great mom it looks beautiful yeah i don't i don't believe you just cooked that no way i mean there's a bit of prep there's a little bit of prep we've been doing this for about 10 years now so we've learned the hard way like when we had loyal connor and we were frying latkes whilst she was here for the whole episode we've learned that you have to prep i say doing none of it this looks Beautiful.

31:11Lennie Ware: Yeah, it looks gorgeous, Mum. It's sea bass with a salsa and a tomato salad with an anchovy dressing and just green beans and potatoes. This looks so gorgeous, Mum. I hope so. This is beautiful. Do you want to know what Mum nearly made you until she read the notes? What was it? I'd ordered, and we have five minutes on the Ocado cut-off. I hadn't read the notes, and I read... I was just reading the whole notes that we got. Lactose intolerant. I thought, fuck. What were you going to make? Fish pie with a pint of milk in and Parmesan cheese. And then cheesecake with sour cream. Thank God. It would have killed you.

31:49Lennie Ware: I don't know what. You wouldn't have eaten it. No, I would have. What would have happened after? You would have died or shat yourself? Oh, my gosh. Yeah, I would have shat myself in the car on the way home, basically. Just help yourself. I would have done that for you. That's really. Help yourself, darling. Thank you. Thank you so much. So, okay, we're talking about what Ashley would cook for us if we were coming over. Yes. And it's surf and turf. Surf and turf. I love a surf and turf A good piece of A good steak Yeah How are you How long are you cooking yours for? I'm a medium Medium Temperature sort of guy Okay And yeah Lovely Lovely Half a lobster With like some garlic Some garlic sauce Someone else talked about lobster Stephen Graham I love lobster I live by I live by the sea And I'm moved By the sea For that reason For the lobster Yeah Yeah, there's an actor called Tanya Frank.

32:40Do you know her?

32:41Lennie Ware: Maybe I know by face. Great, great actress. And she was in Chewing Gum. But she lives in Whitstable. Oh, yeah. And she would invite us down. And she was like, just come down on weekends. And, you know, they have like the largest oyster farm in Europe. It's just all seafood orientated. And we spent so many summer weekends there just eating oysters and drinking bear when I drank. And then we decided to move there. Couldn't afford it. So picked the next town on, which was Herne Bay. And I've lived there for seven years now. And that's got the best crab, hasn't it? Yeah, yeah. Best crab. It's beautiful.

33:16So I moved there for oysters, basically. I'm a huge fan of oysters.

33:21Lennie Ware: Mum can't get into them. No, I can't really. Have you? But I do like lobster. This is lovely, Mum. Gorgeous. I love a good bit of sea bass. This is amazing. God, Stephen got it right. You and Stephen are quite kindred. I know you're long-time friends now and collaborators, but you could have a lovely date night with Stephen because he loves oysters and he loves lobster. So there we go. And his wife. And his wife. And he loves his wife. He loves him a bit of Anna. Okay, so you're going to do a surf and turf. Are you a sweet kind of guy? Nah, you don't get body like this eating sweets. Oh, they're boring, Ashley.

33:57I'm only joking. I'm a huge fan of sweets. So you have to stop them? It is my problem. chocolate and like gelatin, you know, like jelly, jelly sweets, like Haribo. And sometimes, I mean, some weeks I can do like a pack of Haribo a night.

34:12Lennie Ware: But I guess like you're not, you're not, but it's, you're not drinking anymore. No, no, no. And you know, it's sugar. I need sugar. Basically that's what it is. Thank you.

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37:57Last Supper, you're going...

38:00Lennie Ware: I don't think we'll do Death Row today. Stephen was like, let's do Death Row. I know this one. Desert Island for a very long time. Starter, main, pud, drink of choice? Starter would have to be oysters. Okay, how are you taking them? I live next door to Wistable, which is a great oyster farm. So I'd have like six natives. Okay, are they the big ones? No, they're the smaller ones. I can do the smalls. They're the cute, small ones. And they're maybe like six, like, what do they call them? Like Jersey rocks. Okay, they're the big ones. Yeah, the bigger ones, yeah. Do you put hot sauce on? You do 12 oysters in a city.

38:37Oh, yeah, easy. Easy.

38:39Lennie Ware: How are you having them with? I'm having them with like some vinegar, vinegarette, and loads of Tabasco. Yeah. And I have loads of Tabasco. I like it hot and spicy. So that would be for my starter. Yeah. My main has to be laxer. What? Oh, I love a laxer. I could have made that for you. Laxer is beautiful. I mean, it is, there's cream in there. So it's... But coconut cream, no? Yeah, but I mean, whatever cream it is, I'd still risk it for a laxer. I had a place, it's called... Some water. Yeah, please. Sambal Shake. Where's that? It's on Holloway Road. I was on Holly Road Because it recently shut down After eight years And there was a chef there Called Mandy Yin Who used to make The lax of this I'd get one before Every Arsenal game And it's just Like beautiful comfort Food man I love it Like the broth And you know Drink it Have you ever tried to make it?

39:37Never Never

39:37Lennie Ware: It's like a paste You can like It's not too The Sugar Club cookbook Makes a fabulous lax You should try and make one And do it with all the Beautiful fish from Kent Okay, so a laxer. No one's ever done a laxer. Thank you. And then pud? Pud. You've already said it, actually. My favourite pudding is actually eat a mess. And I didn't even know that. Jesus, you'd be dead or you'd be on the loo the whole time. I mean, I very rarely order a dessert unless it's like a birthday or something if I'm in a restaurant. But if I was to have a dessert or I had to have one, it would be an eat a mess because and a deconstructed one as well.

40:17Oh, okay. Fancy. I had that like two years ago. I can't remember where. It might have been Soho Farmhouse, you know. And it was just great, you know, because you get a bit of the sweet and then you've got like, you know, the acidicness of the strawberries and all that.

40:34Lennie Ware: So you don't really like any Caribbean food? I do. I love Caribbean food, but I wouldn't have it as my last meal because I have it so much. You'd have it all the time. Yeah. Which place in Peckham would you go to? What, for food? Do you go back there? Not recent Is your mum still there? No, my mum lives in Haggerston now Oh wow, the other side Yeah, she went over Before me, way before me Went to the dark side We would never leave South London Once you're South London But she went to East I mean, you're just further South now So I still feel like you're within I mean, I did North London for a while My wife is from Old Street So, yeah Like are there any spots I'm in New Cross So Okay Are there any memorable food places From Peckham That you used to love Such good places in Peckham now No I didn't But my mum was so dedicated to Like how I fell in love with oysters Was I badger I saw oysters on TV And I said to my mum So I was like around 9, 10 And I was like I have to have oysters So every day For like two months I was battering her about oysters And she took me to a restaurant here Well on the common actually called La Rueda.

41:46Lennie Ware: La Rueda, the Spanish place. Yeah, the Spanish place. The Spanish place. And she took me all the way up there from Peckham one evening after work. And she's like, there you go. Shut your fucking mouth about oysters. Go on here, eat them now. It's like a nightclub on Friday night. Yeah. Is it still there? Yeah, it's smaller and it's a Spanish restaurant and then they close it all down. They still love La Rueda. I didn't. Why? Because I ordered like a dozen oysters And I didn't eat one of them Oh no Doing all that over the food And my mum was very upset I remember that she wasted her time But the point I'm trying to make Is she always tried to like push me And push the boundaries You know holidays Taking me to different cultural places And whatever So I really respect her for that And that's how I have my love for like Restaurants and like trying food So which place in Hearn Bay do you go to?

42:39Hearn Bay We I mean there's not really Great great restaurants there

42:46Lennie Ware: There's a little sportsman there The sportsman is our go to So I was going to say that and probably our only go to We go there, we've gone there for the last Five anniversaries And sportsman is lovely They're so lovely there too And they're great people as well Okay we have a few more food questions Ashley What's so wrong but so right it's gonna be another boring one for you guys tyrell's crisps they're not wrong what with flavor um sweet chili oh delicious why so moorish man they're delicious calories but you never eat those you're now sounding boring no no i said it was gonna be boring i warned you i was like everything for me is about it's not actually about the flavor or anything anymore it's about Well, it is about it, but it's like anything that tastes good is bad, isn't it?

43:40Lennie Ware: Is that from having addiction? Is that like that feeling of like... I think the control is from having addiction. And I have an addictive personality. You know, I'm addicted to people. I'm addicted to my job, you know, all that stuff. So I have to be really careful about the things. You know, that's why I can like, I can be in bed and finish a packet of Haribo and be like... it's one in the morning i could still go shop and get more if i need you know that's how my brain works is like i should have more and maybe i don't want to eat them now but in the morning i might want them so they should be next to me now and it's like it's a really obsessive thing so when i get into tyrell's and i might go to someone's house and my kids call them tyrell's and i'm like it's not a black man it's not a black man it sounds like pharrell That is Tyrell I love that It's not your cousin It's not Do you come from a big family?

44:36I don't My family's quite small Yeah It was my mum My mum's sister My aunt And my two uncles And my gran

44:46Lennie Ware: So what's your celebration meal? Celebration meal? Like if it was a birthday Probably would get into some like Maybe some West Indian food then I love curry goat Oh yeah I think you've just answered I've got a question Hold the phone there Stephen has a question for you Ash They'd say it is Chicken or curry goat It's a good question There's a war over this question In the Caribbean community Is there? I would definitely pick curry goat Definitely There's something about it there it's kind of like the spaghetti bolognese and kind of like the lax so it's like it's comforting i love broth and like and soup and stuff like that people have it for a wedding don't they it's a celebration meal curry yeah i guess so i mean like all caribbean food is kind of like the worst it's always like the worst parts of the meat and you know because it all comes from people having nothing yeah and you know having to make do but yeah i love it love a curry goat jerk chicken is good but it's a bit too common you know a bit too commercial okay so where's the best curried goat oh the best curry goat go to i'd say i mean i'm probably gonna get killed for this but one love do you know one love in north london it's on crouch hill it's right by crouch hill station and it is just sublime everything in there is is levels you can sit in and eat but it's more of a takeaway joint so yeah that would be my kind of go-to place okay i'm going to clear the table and get some dessert thank you so much you might have to help me because it's okay yeah it's fine

46:37Lennie Ware: this looks gorgeous so it's an apple and apricot warm cake beautiful without any it might not be who knows help yourself shall we test it I'm going to go small first go small I think no I'm not offended at all it might be horrible I mean it's very crumbly what is it made with oil then it's made with oil thank you and it's quite brown it's probably from the apple there are a lot of apples in and you put apricot jam in and apple sauce Ooh. Oh, Mum. Is it nice? It's quite autumnal. Do you want ice cream? Do you want normal ice cream? Or do you want to be... It smells American. Does it? Yeah. This could be in Gilmore Girls.

47:28It's going to kill me.

47:30Lennie Ware: Oh. It's going to kill me. Well, you know. Not because it's bad, but because it's sweet. Let's enjoy it, shall we, Ashley? It's an American recipe. It's an American recipe. Spoil it. We've got to let this melt a bit, don't we? What's it taste like? This is a great recipe. What do we think, Ashley? It's lovely. It's sweet. Very sweet. It's lovely. It's beautiful. I think it's too sweet, I think. It's cosy. It's like hunker down, it's autumn. Where's the recipe from? New York Times. It's good. Back to Animal. When is it released? It's going to be at the BFIA. The 11th of October is our launch, our premiere.

48:11And then actual release the 30th of October. and be in the cinema.

48:15Lennie Ware: How are you going to celebrate? I kind of hide. Oh, really? That's what I do. Really? Yeah, I'm like, I'm really, I get really nervous about like projects I do, acting or directing because you're always, you know, it's really enthusiastic doing it and it's like, it's all about the craft and then at some point as a director especially, you realise I have to give this to the world now and then I no longer have any control over what people say about it, what they do And it just kind of goes into the ether So that process was really hard for me I think I stayed in the edit Longer than I needed to Because I was like I don't want to do the next bit I don't want people to judge me But that's like making an album too Of course It's that thing of like Hang on, is it ready?

49:01Lennie Ware: Is it ever ready? Is it ever finished? Yeah, I mean the same thing Being a creator But you know, as a new director As a new piece of work You know that if it's not great It could mean a big struggle for you after to kind of get your next one off the go. But I think, yeah, I feel like I made a movie. I definitely made a film. I mean, you can watch it. It's fantastic. It is fantastic. And it is arresting. And the performances, which you obviously, you know, helped these young actors create like such brilliant characters. And that's on you, I think And so I think, congratulations No, thank you I have to get used to that as well I think humility as a director Doesn't really work You know when you're like You don't want to accept the You've got to be confident The wins and whatever Directing is all about your vision And it's all about pushing your vision And one thing, I think a few family members came to see it But not really in the film or TV world and after they said it felt like every one of those actors were they were acting like you like I see you acting so it kind of made me think I was like okay so I pretty much put a bit of myself in each of these performances somehow which I think is yeah it's great and to to have the ability to do that and to have great actors that are willing to let you kind of push them a bit it was it was amazing weren't were you tempted to like have a cameo in it at any time Steven's part was written for me Interesting It was, it was, you won't mind me saying it So it was up until I asked Steve to do it, because I just didn't Want to take the risk of being in Something that I was directing Would the directing side Of it lose a bit, because you know Focus on that, so So I asked Steve And he jumped at the chance, obviously he read the script And loved it, but yeah before that Nick was like Like, it's your part.

51:08You know, it's your part. It's your part.

51:09Lennie Ware: Did you make this post-adolescence? Post-adolescence? No, no, it was way before. Oh, interesting. We've had this film. The film was written in 2020, 2019, 2020. When did you shoot it? We shot it a year and a half ago. It's kind of timeless though, isn't it? It is, it is. I didn't want it to feel like set in any sort of space of time, really but you know the time period for him is like 65 days in the film so it's burns what what next what is it more directing or acting um both really so since adolescence just before i did adolescence i was thinking about quitting um acting and i wanted to like direct just direct Because you were fatigued by Top Boy.

52:03I was fatigued by anxiety. I'm an anxious actor. And even coming here for me, I had a panic attack in the car. Oh, me? Driving down there, I'm like, oh. Oh, gosh. You know, you start sweating and you're like, oh, God, I can't do this. Doing my breathing exercises. By the time I got here, I was fine. But acting for me is like that every day. You know, that's what I go through in the morning. I wake up and it could be a job that I'm loving. but it's like to get to work and to actually leave is a lot because I know how tense it's going to be for me and I bring a lot of it home so I was getting to the point where I was like I don't know whether I really want to do this anymore how much I'm enjoying it and I love directing like as chaotic as it is it's so peaceful for me um I really enjoy being behind the camera answering all the questions and you know just doing what I do so I was I was nearly there and then adolescence came and since the award kind of run that we did and I've just been getting really good offers for work so I've had to change my plan

53:06Lennie Ware: Is the anxiety still there though? Yeah still there. Can you take beta blockers? I think he does breath work instead. What's Stephen's retreat? It's Mooji. The guru Mooji. Yeah Stephen is very very spiritual and I'm kind of maybe 25 i have like maybe 25 30 of his spirituality but he shares a lot of it with me but my that's what my life kind of revolves around a lot of like meditation a lot of prayer and stuff um that kind of blows my mind that you still get so i mean i it's because you care of course but i just thought me well i don't know that you should care if you enjoy doing something else and it makes you less stressed out yeah i mean is it worth it that was a thing that was a thing How do you set the good roles?

53:51Lennie Ware: How are you going to turn them down? I love, like, I don't necessarily love the process of acting, but I love seeing the end product. You're so good. Well, thank you. You'll be such a shame. Maybe I need to believe that myself. That might help my anxiety. Because a lot of anxiety for a lot of actors is about... Imposters. You're in front of a camera. There's 50 people on the other side of it. And sometimes all I can think about is what do they think? Of course. And what are they thinking? You know, everyone's just staring at you. Sometimes they're like, you know, they're probably talking about their day last week or football or whatever.

54:28But to you in that moment, you're like, I'm not good. Maybe they're doubting me. And, you know, a lot of that goes through your head. So, well, for me anyway, I shouldn't speak for everyone.

54:38Lennie Ware: And all your characters that I've seen you in, they're so, I mean, there's so much to all of them. And I think you're a brilliant actor. and I think that I don't know when you start believing that. I mean, you must deep down know that you... I'm milking it a bit. People wouldn't offer you stuff if you were shit, would they? No. Well, I mean... I mean, you are handsome, but besides that, you're a great actor. Before we let you go, Ashley, congratulations on everything. Thank you. It's been so wonderful hearing you speak and you're speaking so openly about everything. so thank you thank you what is a nostalgic taste that can transport you back somewhere happy or sad there's two things but i will go with cherry drops i love cherry drops love cherry reminds me of um school just i used to buy what age well like from 11 okay to like 13 secondary school can i ask you if you have a people around for dinner what sort of soundtrack do you have on in the background what music is it I am like I'm a huge jazz jazz Italian jazz like specifically specifically probably I mean like my favourite probably artist was Piero Umigliani okay and he has like a yeah he's got a beautiful album what's it called La La La La La La La La La La La La La De Gangsters It's an amazing album What's his name?

56:21Lennie Ware: Piero Piero Umigliani Umigliani And he has a There's a beautiful song he has called I think it's Prep Siculo Sulmari Or something Yes Prep Siculo Sulmari And who would you have at the dinner table Dead or alive Someone That's a question I'm about to bury my uncle on Monday so probably my uncle and my gran I lost earlier on this year she was mum to me when my mum had me so we had a really close relationship so it would be nice to dine with them one more time Ashley thanks so much good luck with Animal I think you're going to be fine and I think you are going to have to carry on acting but you can do both Cool.

57:12Lennie Ware: OK, cool. Excellent. Great.

57:26Lennie Ware: Ashley Walters on Table Manners. He was such a great guest. Gorgeous. A delightful, delightful person. I really appreciated how open he was and how much he shared with us. He's so interesting. He really has lived a life. Yes, he has. And you like it when they've lived a life, Mum, don't you? I like someone when someone's lived a life. Ashley's directorial debut at Animal is out on the 30th of October. It's a brilliant watch. Painful, beautiful, heartbreaking. And I think it's quite important. And very touching. Absolutely. Mum, the food was delish. Was it? I thought that was a really good recipe.

58:09Lennie Ware: the sea bass he was thrilled he had two sea basses I don't usually like sea bass but that was quite nice wasn't it what's her name I've got the book now Alexandra Dudley has done it again she sent me her cookbook it's yeah it's a really good dish good yeah um no really delicious and I loved that pudding did you yeah see I wasn't sure about it so I put cinnamon icing sugar on the top because I just wondered whether it needed a little bit more of a kick. It looks like I've used brown sugar, but I didn't. It's just apples. It's really, it's a lovely, lovely dish. Good. Take some home. Okay. Thank you to Ashley for coming on, and we will see you next week for more Toven Gunners.

58:56Lennie Ware: Don't forget to subscribe.

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