Stephen Graham

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1:10Lennie Ware: Hello, and welcome to Table Manners. I'm Jessie Ware, and Lenny's just swapping her hair. Shushing, darling. Looks great. We had a lovely weekend, didn't we? We went to, we had Rosh Hashanah, which was gorgeous. Good. Shana Savar. And we also had Paddington on Sunday. I'm into marmalade now. Marmalade. Marmalade. Respect. Tom Fletcher, you did it. Those songs are catchy as anything. It was so gorgeous. Bonnie Langford. Oh, was it Bonnie Langford? Yeah. With the legs split. This is good. Yeah. She was very good. That's why everyone was so thrilled. She was very good. I really loved it. Go and see it.

1:51Lennie Ware: I mean, it's a pricey ticket, but dare I say worth it? I think so. It was amazing. And the wonderful Paddington. Just gorgeous. I love the way the eyes moved when he was sad. I want to know how the lady inside was doing it all. I know. His eyes just went so sad. It was gorgeous. But enough talking about other people's brilliant acting. We have one of the greatest actors of our time in my kitchen in a minute. It's Stephen Graham. You will know from whether you've watched Snatch or This Is England. Line of Duty. Line of Duty, Band of Brothers. The dad in the Matilda musical. The Blow, the... A Thousand Blows.

2:31Lennie Ware: A Thousand Blows. Bounds on Disney. Help, the one about COVID. Father of Bruce Springsteen. Oh, I mean, he's played everyone. And of course, Adolescence, which was this huge hit. What's been born out of it is huge discussions. It's now in every school, I think. as learning material. And also he's written a book which was inspired by these tough conversations that maybe weren't being had. It's called Letters to Our Sons and it's a collection of letters from different men to their sons. And it's a really interesting, beautiful read. Saw Riz Ahmed's one in there. Yeah. Yeah. But lots of them are anonymous.

3:10Lots of them are anonymous.

3:11Lennie Ware: It reminds us a bit of when Gillian Anderson came on this podcast and did a whole collection of essays and letters about want and desire. It's really, really brilliant. But also, he's coming on to talk about Nocturne, which is released on Apple TV on the 30th of October. Liv Schreiber's in it. It's an amazing cast. It's incredibly dark. It's also really gripping and brilliant. And I feel like everyone's going to be watching it and talking about it. He plays the main man, who is in a, what do you call it when it's high security? High security. he's not he's a prisoner who is well you know what I'll let him talk about it he plays a really dark character Kelsa Preeze um but he is very good at it but I always feel he's got such warmth in everything he plays so kind eyes yeah he's kind and I don't know if it's because that scouse in him but he's always very endearing and very engaging darling what what have you made for him because it's a funny it's kind of brunch um so i've made from mirisoda's book dinner you've not made dinner darling i haven't made dinner but it's from mirisoda's book dinner it's the cheddar and gotcha chang cornbread that we're gonna have with a pickled sweet corn on top and then we're gonna have fried eggs and bacon with it and sour cream and some avocado does that sound all right fabulous you're going for it darling I don't know I feel like this is a bit of a show stop it I'm so bad with baking I hope it's okay so but I know it tasted good the batter tasted amazing so I feel like that would be quite delicious fried egg so yeah and then you've made pudding yeah what have you made well I've made a kind of blueberry and raspberry tiramisu can't go wrong it's like let's see what it's like ladies fingers ladies fingers only one little thing and then mascarpone with egg and I put blueberries through the whole thing and then blueberries and raspberries on top.

5:13That sounds great. Be nice for a little taste. Stephen Graham coming up on Table Notes.

5:24Lennie Ware: Stephen Graham. Hello. So excited to have you. Gracing our table. We're so happy. I'm very nervous actually. Oh shut up. What are you nervous about? Because my missus adores you two massively. She loves you, honestly. Yeah. And I've seen some stuff as well. So I'm always a bit nervous at these things. They're slightly. No, we don't hijack anyone. We just chat. The only thing you need to be nervous about is if you get a bit of coriander in your teeth and I've got you. So don't worry. You've got me. Yeah. Have you got coriander in your food today? Sorry, is that okay? Do you hate coriander? Are you one of those people that hates coriander?

5:59Have you got coriander in there though?

6:00Lennie Ware: Not yet. You hate it. thank god thank god you were so polite though you were going to go with it it's not in yet okay can we swerve the coriander it's right there no do not do it do you have you have the thing then I just think it's like soap yeah you've got it then you know this is a thing what's the thing it's a thing that people some people really it reacts in their body and it tastes like soap it's not that you just got it too it's not that you just don't like it it makes it taste She calls it the devil's herb. The devil's herb. Yeah. So you've got that too. I do, yeah. It's actually a medical condition.

6:39Lennie Ware: Is it? So it's fine, yeah. You can be like, I'm so sorry, I'm intolerant to coriander. You mean like gluten-free? Yeah, they go. Any intolerances, any... Okay. Coriander, actually. Okay. Yeah, no, I can't stand it. Thank God I didn't put it in. Neither does Grace and Alfie, they can't stand it, neither. Really? Are those your kids? Yeah. Right, okay. Yeah, they can't stand it. How old are they? Grace is 21 and Alfie was 20 a couple of weeks ago. She's gorgeous as well. Both of them are so good looking. How are you looking at his children? I looked at pictures of them when they were at an awards ceremony looking proud.

7:08Lennie Ware: No, to be fair, I'm off the old Insta now, but I did see a fantastic bit where you're doing your dance thing. You're an amazing dancer. Yeah, me and Alfie just messing about. He always gets me to do these silly things. Yeah, but you used to dance when you were younger, right? I was a break dancer. Okay, yeah. Yeah, in the townie. Oh, my God. Could you do it on your head? No, no, no. Oh, no, I could, yeah. You could. I thought you was going to ask me to do it. Now there's no chance. I'll call it hip or something. Do you know what I mean? I'm very old now. No, when I was a kid, we had a little break dancing crew.

7:41And my mum never used to know, but we were in a town. We used to go to town with our ghetto blaster and some lino and throw it down and just press play. And you get a couple of quid, do you know what I mean, between us.

7:52Lennie Ware: What was like your showstopper? Well, it was two amazing dancers called Darren Ailey and Justin Henry. and they were like phenomenal and they taught me a little bit of it. I mean, just do that for me. You can do that. It was just that little bit of it, yeah. It's really good, Steve. So I learnt from them and our Alan was in the crew and everything and we were called the Kirby Breakers. The Kirby Breakers. The Kirby Breakers, yeah. Yeah, back in the day. Where were you exactly from? Kirby. Kirby, yeah. Kirby, yeah. Just, it's a little town. Opposite. I thought it was because you were street dancing outside so you were on the kerbs.

8:27No, no, no. That works. Yeah, I like that. That works. So can you still be a scouser if you're from Kirby? Well, we are scousers, yeah. Oh, you're the proper scousers. Oh, okay. Technically, look, we're like 30 minutes away from the centre of town. But what Kirby is, is Kirby's a little place where when me nana and all them back in the day, they used to live off Scotty Road and they got sent. Scotty Road. Well, you had to apply to go to Kirby because it was like, oh, everywhere's green and lovely. No one ever would be coming overcrowded. So they sent them out to them areas. And that's where I was born and raised, Kirby.

8:58Lennie Ware: Well, let's take it back to then. Can you give us a memorable dish from your childhood and tell us who was round the dinner table? Okay, so a memorable dish from my childhood is going to have to be a pan of Scouse. I knew you were going to say that. You knew I was going to say it. You know what it is? It's stew. Remind me. Okay. It's stew, but it comes from lap Scouse, which traditionally, I think, if I've got it right, I know people think that it's kind of an Irish stew, which it is basically, but it comes from the sailors yeah uh i think over in norway something like that but then it was because liverpool was a massive dock area wasn't it and i think it was brought over from then i think please if i've got it wrong someone will tell me but that's what it is scouse and it's basically um stew and steak stew and steak no it's stew and steak it's my accent stew and steak that's in the pan for hours.

9:53Yeah. Like hours. Yeah. And then it's potatoes, carrots, turnip, and that's basically it. It's the barley in it. No. No. No.

10:04Lennie Ware: What are you eating it with? We have it with bread. Oh, bread. Yeah. Oh, okay, nice. But you can put others, it's sacrilege, but you can put other stuff in it because our Vera used to make a gorgeous one. Our Vera Scouse was the best. Who's Vera? Vera was my auntie Vera, God bless her. And then you'd have it with like, what's the red cabbage stuff? Yeah. Pickled cabbage. Pickled cabbage. Oh, I love that. Or beetroot. Oh, beetroot from the jar. Pickled beet. Yeah, from the jar. From the jar, yeah. Delicious. It was gorgeous. Yeah, a bit of sharp with it. So now today we have it, but, you know, occasionally I make it, but make it with some mushrooms and things that I was not supposed to do.

10:42I was taught how to make it quite properly, yeah. By Vera? By Vera and my ma. My ma was a good cook, but our Vera Scouse was the best but then my Nana's was the best Was your mum from Liverpool? Yeah, yeah, they're all from Liverpool They were all, my mum's mother was from Irish descent and her dad was from Scotland And where's your dad from? My biological father his dad was from Jamaica and I think his mum was from I think their history goes back to Norway so I'm a thoroughbred mum Yeah Wow Have you done your DNA? yeah I did yeah yeah it's a bit mental is it? I can't remember all the bits but you've got a lot of yeah from all over the place massively Irish a big chunk most of it's Irish little bit of Scottish and then a lot of African I think it was something like 21 % African I think or 20 % African it's a shame Anna isn't he because she knows all them details that's your wife?

11:43that's the boss and where was your stepdad from? His father was from Africa. Yeah. And, but obviously like second generation or third generation in Liverpool. So Pops' dad was also from, you know, he was black and Pops' mixed race as well.

11:59Lennie Ware: So who was around the dinner table? You have, do you have two brothers? Well, back in the day, it would have been me and my mum. Because my nana passed away when I was 14. So a lot of the time it was food at my nana's house. And me and my mum lived at my nana's for a while. But my nana used to, so it'd be like, the other thing with my nana's was, my nana's was like the haven. Do you know what I mean? It was the base where everyone come and she'd just make masses of food. The best thing as well she used to make was them, what are they called? These like ribs, but you put them in a pan. You put them in, remember them pressure cooker things?

12:33Yeah, yeah, yeah. You put the ribs in it, bacon back ribs. Bacon back ribs. Like big strips of them. Oh, right. And then you get them really soft and then it all fall off the bone. So you'd have that with mash and peas. How delicious. It was gorgeous. But that smell, I just remember that smell in my Nana's kitchen all the time. Yeah. That reminds me very much of that salty kind of bacon smell.

12:56Lennie Ware: Salty bacon. By the way, I'm just going to be over there finishing off because I know he's hungry. Yeah. So you keep on asking the questions. I will keep on asking the questions. Also, your mum was a social worker, wasn't she? Yeah, she was. So his mum, I'm a social worker. Yeah. Well, I'm a bit old now. I just do odds and ends. Who did your mum work with? My mum started off as a, we went away, we went to Holland for a little bit, me and my mum, when it was just me and my mum. What, to live? Yeah, we went there for a while. She went to study over there for a little bit and I think she did some Montessori stuff as well when she was over there.

13:28And we lived in a place called Den Bosch, just outside Amsterdam. We were there for, I think we were there for a year and a half. How interesting. Yeah, it was wonderful. Just to live there. It was really wonderful. and we lived there for a while and embraced the culture and the people. I used to be able to speak. Look, my nickname, where I'm from in Kirby, a lot of people know me as Dutchie. Dutchie. Oh, because you went to live in Holland. Because I went to live in Holland. My mate David McMahon, his name was, I came back home and went back to school and he went, where have you been? I was like, oh, we were over in Holland.

14:00And he was like, Dutchie. And then that was my nickname.

14:03Lennie Ware: Did everyone sing past the Dutchie? Yeah, I got that quite a lot. Yeah, which is very apt. Great song. That's a fanger, isn't it? Yeah, it's an absolute fanger. So we came back and my mum was a nursery nurse. She worked in Cancel Farm and she trained and trained and trained and then, you know, eventually she became a social worker. Which football team do you support? Liverpool. Yeah, even though you've been to Holland, you've got Norway, you've got all different bits involved. And mum, the sad thing is you can't say shit because we're so shit at the moment. You can't even come back with anything.

14:33I'm from Manu. I come from Manchester. Do you ever go to football matches? When I get a chance, yeah. I bet they give you like VIP, you sit in the director's box. No, it's very nice. And people all bow to you. No, no, don't be ridiculous. They look after us. We get to go in the Legends Lounge. Oh, the Legends. So I've been very fortunate to meet John Barnes, who's an absolute icon. He's one of my heroes, still is one of my heroes. So I get to take the family, which is lovely. But you live in Leicestershire? Yeah, we live in Leicestershire. Why? Well, Hannah's originally from Leicestershire. Okay.

15:08So when we were, we used to live in Beckenham. You did, huh? Yeah, we used to live in Beckenham. We actually lived in what was then called Penj, but I believe now it's Posh. Oh, Posh, Posh, Posh. I believe it's Posh now. It's changed, it's gone a little bit upmarket. Yeah. We lived there for a long time. Why? Well, we met in London years ago, the two of us, we met at drama school. We met 33 years ago. Wow. And this is New Cross area, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. So I've got a little bit of a... Look, we were... What's a nice way of... So we were friends with lovely benefits. Why didn't you want to commit either of you?

15:47Because I was shit at that time. Oh, you were shit at commitment? Yes. Okay, fine. I had commitment issues. And it was just one of them things, you know. And look, we were both young. We were only... I was 20. She was 19. And I'd recently just moved from home. So you didn't want to commit to No, but then what happened was She went to Spain And she was there for a little bit And then she met this fella Oh my god That clarified things for you

16:19Lennie Ware: This anger that comes out In some of your characters Is this from this Spanish bloke She met this fella called Paco Paco Very Spanish Very Spanish Yeah. And so she'd gone for a while. Yeah. And then she came back. And look, we'd never been on a proper date. You just shagged. Well, no. Jessica. There was a conversation. Jessica. Postcoital combo. Yeah. But you know one of them ones where you don't really know what you're in until it's gone? Yeah. So that's what happened to me. Yeah. And when she came back, I was like, so what's been going on? And then she said, look, I'm going to move to Spain.

17:00Lennie Ware: but Paco see yeah exactly see exactly see so I was like what do you mean and she said I've met this fella called Paco and I'm going to go back and I'm going to live in Spain and I was like why and she was like well there's not an ear is there really and I was like can I take it out on a date and she was like what and all that time we'd never been on a date so the first film where did you take him we went we went to New Cross on a date well let me finish that's romantic no we went to Pitches we went to watch Shave and Private Ryan great and then there was a little restaurant across the road cool I can't remember what it was called it was like where was the cinema did you go to Greenwich Picture House or no no because no we must have gone no you're right yeah we were in Greenwich weren't we and then we but then we got a train anyway long story we ended up at New Cross Station yeah right and we're there and don't forget she's going in two days So my arse went and I was like, I've got to try and pull this out of the bag somehow.

18:02And then I did, I don't know where it came from, but I just went, I love you. Oh. And we were at New Cross train station and she went, I've been waiting five years for you to say that.

18:13Lennie Ware: You were shaving her for five years and you didn't take her on a date. Stephen, that's outrageous. I was young. Outrageous. No, well, we... She was patient. Yeah, thank you. She knew you loved her, though. She knew she just needed you to realise it Yeah, basically Oh no, it's a good story So then I told her And she said I've been waiting for five years And then she never went to Spain And within three days Then we moved in together I'm sure there's a TV series that could be made about your relationship It's nice and nice little And do you know what? One time she bought me this little Like a plaque Which said New Cross train station on it Aww She should be here.

18:55Lennie Ware: I know she should be here. I told you she should have come, but she's mad busy. What happened to Paco? I don't give a fuck.

19:04Paco's loss is my game. Paco got packed off, yeah. Thankfully. And then, you know, you have your trials and tribulations in every relationship, don't you? You've not played any real romantic leads, have you? No, I haven't. Do you think you could? No. I think you could. I don't see myself as a romantic leader. Don't you? Oh, I do. Those gorgeous eyes and that lovely smile. I think that's why we, because some of the parts you play. That's all right. We've got a fire alarm. Oh, the whole thing's going off. Oh, Jesus. She's bearded the basin. Pressure. Oh, it's pressure. It's pressure. Look, it's pressure.

19:45It is like boiling points. This is like boiling points. Can we get a shot of that, please? Can we see this? Can we see this man? Psychoticness. Jessie.

19:56Jessie, it's all right, love. Don't worry.

20:04I did a meditation this morning. Oh, my canal. Yeah. Oh, sorry. You just swore. Yeah.

20:10Lennie Ware: We swear a lot. I'm so sorry, though. That is fucking burnt. No worries. Did you like doing Boiling Point? I did, yeah. It was such a good series. Thank you very much. It was a wonderful experience. It was so wonderful. And I love the second one where she takes over. Yeah. Yeah, and you're in depression. Yeah. Not well. No, not well at all. He relapsed and stuff. Could you do another one? Well, we won. Because yours was like the precursor to the bear. Yeah, that's exactly what we thought. You know what I mean? And it was, I think, the first series. We did the film, which was a wonderful experience.

20:48and then we did a little series which was on the BBC and I think it was received really well. It was fabulous. And it was one of those kind of things where, you know, it was a kind of working class drama. But I think, and I'm not being disrespectful, I think today, you know, those kind of things, maybe the BBC and the studios don't really want that kind of social realism. Well, I don't know. If you look at it more, there's not many kind of working class dramas that are on today that you can really identify with well you're in the mall if there any if there are any that's that's been my kind of you know um that that's been a time yeah yeah that was that was wonderful to do that's been my bread and butter that's the kind when i was a kid you know all i ever wanted to do was to be in something like that my aim and my ambition when i was when i was younger was to i really wanted to be in a jimmy mcgovern piece so for me to be in time um was just was just an absolute gift i mean it was a wonderful cast duty oh thank you very much that was a lot of fun what was it corbett um yeah yeah and yeah it was great yeah and that was great to work with i never really got to work much with Vicky and Martin who are really close friends and I think Vicky's phenomenal in that she's a wonderful actress she is she's brilliant isn't she she's just such she's got such a wonderful heart as well Vicky and I never really got a chance to work with her in that but that's why I love doing This Is England yeah that was a gift as well amazing do you know what I mean it was a real gift I loved Vicky won an award last week at the NTA yeah for Trigger Point that's right and she mentioned that it was a wonderful tribute to working class actors absolutely Which I think was very important to say.

22:38Yeah, it's very important to say that because I do feel we're not making enough stories about, you know, the majority of their audience, I think, who are people from working class backgrounds. Unless, and I'm not being disrespectful, unless it's kind of gangsters or, do you know what I mean? Yeah, or soaps, which soaps are integral. You know, I used to watch Coronation Street and EastEnders all the time. Yeah. Yeah, back in the day. Were you surprised at the success of Adolescents? Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. How did it start, the whole premise? It was actually off the back of Boiling Point. Oh, really?

23:17We made Boiling Point. Because of the one take? Yeah, because of that one take concept, which was an idea from Matt, our wonderful DOP, and Phil, the director. So it was kind of one of those little beautiful, serendipitous moments where you start off. It was a favour really for Phil. We made a short. Okay. And he said, look, will you? And I was like, go and make one yourself first and then we'll see. And he did. He went and made a beautiful little short. And then he said, look, I've got this idea with Matt, the wonderful DOP who I've been working with. We were thinking of making a short, which would be one take, 22 minutes, all set in the kitchen, about a chef.

23:56and I said I think that idea sounds fantastic so then what we did was we made the short and originally the short was just to get him an opportunity to show agents what he could do so we because he wanted to be a director and it was like all right well let's let's make this and and I sent it to my agent Jane the wonderful Jane and she put it around the office and within two days he sat down he was having a meeting with an agent and then his agent said why don't you turn it into a feature. So we did. And again, very low budget. Wow.

24:30Lennie Ware: Oh, well, you've got no coriander. Don't worry. Wow. Look at that with a fried egg as well. I hope it's not too wobbly, the fried egg. It's over. No, I love an egg like that. Yeah. Have you got any Tabasco sauce? What do you want to fucking try it first? No, he wants hot sauce, Jeff. This is the thing with Hannah. No, no, Hannah says the same. No, I'm going to have a word with your wife. You're going to have all the condiments, Stephen. I'm really sorry. Do Do you love spice? Oh, my goodness. So it's hot sauce on everything? Yeah. And chilli flakes. And chilli flakes. Do you like crispy chilli and oil?

25:04Oh, I don't know. You can have a bit of that.

25:07Lennie Ware: There's Encona there. I like Encona. Encona's good. Is that your go-to? This is very good. We've got one at home. I can't remember what it is, but it's a real spicy one, like a Jamaican one, which has got a proper kick to it. Yeah, yeah. But Sebastopol's always sweet. Hold on a minute. And I smothered everything in pepper as well, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I'm on my last peppercorns. Oh, Jessica. Oh, my mind. Is that my pudding? It's the pudding. Oh, Jessie. I think it's hanging out.

25:42I feel like I'm in a farce.

25:45Lennie Ware: What's going on? I'm really sorry. It's okay, we can work around it. We're not fucking eating. I'm so sorry, Mum. We can work around it. Only took me an hour last night when I came back from dinner. And she's got a bad hit. And I've got a bad hit. I didn't put it in there, by the way. Yeah, no, it's not. It's a goner. I do have ice cream. Can you just tell me what it was? It was a tiramisu made with blueberries. Oh, I love tiramisu. He loves tiramisu as well. This is more chaotic than usual.

26:24Lennie Ware: So what's happened is I went to get Stephen Graham some hot sauce because he demanded all the hot sauces and I was worried. I mean, you did say before you'd even tasted it that you needed all the hot sauces. All right, honey. Yeah. And Hannah, yeah, we'll talk later about this. But anyway, so I went to get it. Luca, darling Luca, had put mum's delicious looking blueberry and raspberry tiramisu in not fully in and it's gone. It's gone. God, this will go up there as one of the top blunders. Is this beet? George Ezra. Having the fight with Macca? I don't know. George Ezra have beets. Yeah, anyway.

27:05Lennie Ware: Got chichang cheddar cornbread with a pink... Come on, who's chichang? What's that all about? What is chichang? You make got chichang. Korean red top. I mean, if you like... Oh, it is. It has got a little kick. Oh, you're welcome. With a fucking spice. You said specifically... It has got a lovely little kick. Yeah, I love it when it kicks. They said, Stephen likes spicy food and chicken. And I didn't feel like I could feed you chicken at 11 o 'clock in the morning, so I did spice. So this has got chichang and cheddar cornbread from Mira Soda's dinner cookbook. And then I've done it with fried egg and bacon.

27:45Lennie Ware: So there you go. Delicious. Dig in. It's very delicious. It is nice, isn't it? Absolutely gorgeous. Dig in. Eat some. We'll all think about what just happened. Or let's forget it. Let's forget it. Let's forget it. Yeah. Who's the biggest diva you've worked with then on set? Apart from Lenny just right now.

28:08Lennie Ware: You're not going to say. I was going to, but then I've realised no comment. No, don't worry. Well done. Yeah. Well done. And I hate that when they say that in 24 hours in police custody, but I am going to go no comment. Well, coming back, look, seeing this is the professionalism. Going back to that question, that was one of our main influences. Yeah. 24 hours in police custody. No, because I love the concept of it and I love how they do it. Do you know what I mean? For adolescents? Yeah. Yeah, right. And it was basically Plan B, which is Brad Pitt's company, got in touch with Phil. and said we'd really love to develop something with you and Stephen.

28:48It was Jeremy from Plan B. He said we'd really love to develop something with you and Stephen with respect to that kind of one-shot format. And it was kind of, they wanted to do something about one person and follow him around for like eight episodes. And I just said, that's wonderful, but I think that'd be a bit boring. And then I had this idea and this concept in my head that just kind of came to me while me and Phil were traveling in the car and we discussed it. and I knew I wanted to make something about young men because there was quite a spate not too long ago where young boys were stabbing young girls.

29:22It happened, there was an incident in Liverpool. There was an incident in, I think it was Hull, where that transgender girl got lured to the park.

29:33Lennie Ware: Yes, yes, yeah. And then while we were actually filming or just about, we were about to go film, there was an incident that happened in South London where the young black girl got stabbed at the bus stop by her boyfriend. And Croydon. And Croydon, yeah. She dumped him. That's right. And he waited on the bus. Waited on the bus, yeah. And he had flowers for her as well or something, I think. So I just wanted to look at the possibilities of what that was about and why that was happening. So I had the idea in my head. And then I knew, for me personally, I've been very blessed to work with Jack Thorne, who's a marvellous writer.

30:06I've worked with him on a lot of projects and we're very close and really good friends. and I knew Jack would be able to pull that out of my head and then make it something beautiful because he's a phenomenal writer.

30:15Lennie Ware: Which brings me on to your book. Mm-hmm. It's... It's not my book, it's not. Well... It's... No, but I get you. No, but you... Okay, explain to people. Did you choose the letters yourself? A team. Yeah. Yeah, as a collective we do. And I believe there's Jack's in there. Has Jack written one too? Yeah, Jack's wrote a letter in there. I really, really enjoyed his letter. Beautiful, wasn't it? Yeah. Did you read Ben? Did you read Loyal Kahna's letter, Ben? Oh, no. His letter is gorgeous. Well, he's amazing, isn't he? He's a wonderful lyricist. I'm a beautifully human being. Read Riz Ahmed, though.

30:49Lennie Ware: Saw that in there. Well, I presumed it was Riz Ahmed, Riz actor. Yeah, but it's kind of that essence of anonymity as well to an extent. You may know who they are, but it's also... But also, it's not just actors and creatives. It's, you know, bricklayers. It's cleaners. It's people that work in, you know, IT. Doctors. Totally. lawyers you know bin men yeah all across the spectrum you know what i mean that's that's kind of what we were looking to try and achieve but there was a marvelous team my best mate who also i've known for 33 years jude um it was kind of a concept that she came to us and we because of orly orly who's also part of the curation team she um her son was 13 uh and he was about to make his bar mitzvah so she got letters from men in his life just to give him some kind of bits of advice and tips and you know the things things to look forward to things to be mindful of um and so jude came to our house and said look what do you think it is do you think there's anything we could do with this concept um and we were in our garden and i and i just kind of went yeah this is really where if we kind of made it from fathers to sons and we called it letters to our sons and that what we were trying to achieve and hopefully was to, because it's very difficult, especially men find it difficult sometimes to communicate, to talk, especially to the children, do you know what I mean?

32:18And especially men of a certain age. I think generationally that's switching and it's in a process of change. But I think systemically we've always, like men keep all of their things to themselves, do you know what I mean? And that's culturally, socially. but what this was trying to do was just simply sit down think of that one person think of your son or your sons and just write them a letter and to take that time out and just think of that one person alone and no one else it's a beautiful kind of meditative thing that you go into do know what i mean totally and some of these letters are absolutely beautiful do you have a relationship with your dad at all, your biological dad.

33:01Yeah. No, he was very young when he had me. He was only 17. Crikey. Do you know what I mean? My mum was 19. That's very young. And it was very difficult. You know, my mum was not married and my family, not hypocrisy, but they were a very kind of Catholic tradition Liverpool family. so for my mum to be having a child who was mixed race and to have no father it was very difficult for her do you know what I mean at first really difficult and me and my dad yeah you know I saw a lot of them when I was young but he just he didn't have the skills himself to be a father that was there for me and I understand that do you know what I mean because of his own life but in saying that he's gone on to have another three children and he's there for them, do you know what I mean?

33:56It just didn't quite, that's all right. I carry no animosity. I carry no resentment. I wish him nothing but love. But we just don't communicate because that's just kind of something that happened over time. He must be quite young now. Yeah, he can't be that old, can he? I don't think so. If he was 17 when he had me and I'm 53, my maths is shit, but what's that? 70. There you go. Four. Well done. Very young. Very young, but in response to that, Pops is the man that's raised me. Yeah. He's been there from the age of 10. Oh, the age of 10. From the age of 10, yeah. And he's the one who's guided me.

34:34And, you know, the majority of my models and my own model compass comes from my pops. He's the one who taught me about my history, my sense of identity, the sense of pride in the culture that I should have. And I'm very proud to be Scottish. I'm very proud to be Irish. I'm very proud to have that, excuse me, Jamaican African heritage. I'm very proud of that. But as a kid, there were struggles in that kind of sense of identity, not quite, not knowing where I fitted in. And if you have to, you know, if we're being completely honest, if you look at it, if you look at the kind of the rise of the national front and things like that, when I was little, it was very, you know, it was very scary.

35:15Me and my dad were walking from quarry green shops once to, we were going up to the top of the roughy and three lads just you know started started saying the n-word you know what i mean and so it was i did experience a bit of that when i was young do you know what i mean quite a bit um and to see how my dad conducted himself through that moment was was very for me as a kid it was yeah because they were you know there was the nf was all over the place wasn't it and it was a big rise in that and and i and i think it was for me was it was a very scary time absolutely scary now yeah yeah i agree yeah people donating massive funds to reform from outside of england yeah i mean 72 mil that's i mean this is england

36:09Lennie Ware: was one of your breakout yeah roles absolutely was there a reason why like that felt like the right role to because i mean your experience growing up yeah and you know actually going forward the play the people that you play you know in nocturne she's fucking terrifying thank you very much like you you're brilliant of course but you did you feel like you wanted to tackle and see another yeah with with this is england um when i went for the audition I didn't mention anything about my heritage um and it was in there when we were doing the the audition process with with a group of us um Shimmy Andrew Shim who played Milky you know I said some harsh things in the context of what we were doing um and then I phoned him later on and said I'm really sorry you know the things I said that's not me look I just want you to know that I'm mixed race and he was like I knew it I thought that was the case um I said but don't tell Shane please because I don't want it to jeopardize the possibility of getting the job but Shane was listening to the conversation so we already knew and then Shane got on the phone and I went Shane uh yeah look you probably don't want me now and he was like are you kidding he said this this adds a different perspective to it we can look at it from a completely different perspective and then it goes back to look I'm I'm 53 I'd like to say I think I'm I'm comfortable with who I am.

37:38We all have our fears and our doubts and our insecurities. Do you know what I mean? That kind of inferiority complexes that we can carry for a long time, I think that slowly over time is beginning to pass. But I still get moments of pure, it's always going to go away at some point. Imposter syndrome. Imposter syndrome. That's the exact thing I was looking for. How could you when you're the most accomplished actor? because you've won i mean you couldn't have won another award last year i don't know yet it was everything but you said there's there my deep little insecurities that i try and come to terms with you know what i mean and that i work on regularly uh in a regular daily basis for me it's just for today you know what i mean i only have today i try and be present and be in there now and be here for today so i only have today but to go back to that i'm in that position now but whereas I looked at that character and he had hatred for his father because we come up with a scenario where his dad just left one day and never came back and left him and his mother and then he had to take care of his mom and his little sister and there was a horrible incident that happened and he stabbed the man who was raping his little sister you never you never understood any of this or you never saw it but this is the backstory and the details that we went into so that he then he became a product of the system and he was thrown in prison at a young age you know what I mean and And from that moment on, he had this kind of hatred towards that representation of what his father was.

39:07So that's where all of his confusion came from. And with respect to Noctean, that's completely different. That's, you know, that's a really fun, interesting character to play. And I never would have. And again, I completely understand it. And it does go back to that. I completely understand it. I would have. I don't think I would have been looked at for that role if it hadn't been for the success of adolescence. And I'm aware of that. I'm completely aware of that. But the beauty and the joy of adolescence for me is that it's transformed a lot of people's careers. You look at Little Owen. Oh, gosh.

39:39It's phenomenal. Phenomenal. But again, Little Owen is someone that, you know, Shaheen and Phil and the whole lot of us really nurtured and we supported him. And we gave him an environment where he could show his true talents. But if you look how he's progressed and what he's gone on to, then if you look at Christine, who played my wife, who was amazing. Christine was struggling to find work, do you know what I mean? But now she's gone from job to job to job. You look at Erin, Erin Doherty.

40:08Lennie Ware: She's in everything now. I mean, she's phenomenal. From the crown to that, it was... And who's to say that she wouldn't have kept going, but there's something within her, and do you know what I mean? Again, what this has done is this has given us all opportunities. You look at Phil, our director, a fellow who six, seven, eight years ago was like, oh, I'd really like to be a director, and the trajectory of his career. through the success. You must be so proud of that. I'm proud of the team. I'm proud of all of us, of what we achieved. But one of my favourite roles of yours was Bruce Springsteen's dad.

40:38Oh, thank you very much. I loved it. I nearly died when you popped up with an American accent, sounding, yeah, but playing a father again. Yeah. A rather... Troubled. Troubled and damaged man. And I spent a lot of time talking to Bruce about his relationship with his dad. You talked to him about it. yes oh my word yes yeah because i for my research i listened to his book his autobiography his autobiography um and when he spoke of his father or spoke of things that his father had said to him he changed his voice excuse me very subtly he changed his voice and i said to him are you aware that you've done that he was like no but there was kind of still in like little essence of who his dad was to him when he was young and his dad suffered hugely from depression do you know what i mean huge and that goes back to what we were saying about the book i think back in the day excuse me something's really yeah let me do that again to move it away no no no sweet it was gorgeous i think the spice is getting me a little bit but that's good though because maybe i maybe i overspiced oh she's a lovely lady isn't she um but to go back to that i think that generational thing and that's what i was saying before it's systemic and i think that's the beauty of the book um generations of generations of men have never spoken honestly and openly and for me if i'm really honest my perception of this and this is only my you know this is just my view the biggest the strongest quality a man can have is vulnerability to me that's just the way i look

42:15Lennie Ware: at it i want to talk about this idea of living each day you said you said say how do you take every day it's like just for today every day is what it is that something to do with like are you sober are you sober now yeah but did it did this come out of that i mean did you do meditation today like i want to know what helps you yeah yeah i do meditate and look it was just a choice i just for a while i've chose not to not to drink so uh that's my own personal choice and my life has transformed dramatically but i do i you know i've found my own sense of peace can you tell me because as somebody who maybe is trying to find a bit of peace and um but how do you do meditation do you do transcendental or is it like an app or is it different my favorite is muji what's muji you don't know muji no muji is phenomenal i know the shop but i don't know muji's a uh he's a kind of guru i suppose he's a he's a i did a muji course and i bought me it for my bought me for christmas quite a while ago but it was he's got a place out in um portugal okay but i couldn't go because it was covid so i did a a week's course um and kind of just moody is the the i'm like no i said i feel why do i feel silly talking about it i don't know um yeah it's you know it's it's for me meditation is integral yeah it's it's part of my practice every morning so you've been doing it what for like six years or ten years yeah god you're gonna have to do it after this yeah see i didn't get too bothered about everything like do you know it is about that being present and being in the moment you know what i mean and for me to be what is the what is the best kind of it's it's all of these experiences are human experiences this is what we're here for do you know what i mean irrespective of differences that people would have and all people do have like we were saying socially, politically underneath.

44:10And again, I bring it back to the book in this respect. Surely all you want is for your child to be the best person they possibly can be. And what's the best quality we have as human beings? Empathy. If you've walked a bit in my shoes, you understand me a lot. Do you know what I mean? If you haven't, then surely communication and listening to each other is how we get there, how we try to find a balance and try and find some. For me, my mind can be quite racy. so I've tried to find that peace and that stillness it's the breath within the breath you know what I mean you've just finished Nocturne or you haven't just finished it it was probably you finished it a while ago a good few months ago what projects have you got coming up?

44:51do you want to put a bit of a twat? don't feel a twat don't I want to know heat too fuck off what? heat like Val Kilmer and oh my god How exciting It's very exciting Who's in the car? Who's in it? Are you allowed to say? Yeah I think it's It's fine Deadline have probably already said it Leonardo DiCaprio

45:17Lennie Ware: Have you acted with him yet? Yeah I did When did you act with him? On Gangs of New York Oh okay Which goes back to Leicester We went Leicester Because you said ages ago So we lived up there in Penj and then I had to go to Italy to do Gangs of New York and we had a little flat. So we gave our little flat up and put all of our stuff in Hannah's mum's house. And then we thought we were going to be in Italy for like five months. And we ended up being there for seven months. I think it was in total, eight months. Did Hannah come with? Yeah. She was, she loved it. She became like a tour guide. Because again, it's one of those things where when you're experiencing those things, you want your friends and family to be a part of that.

45:57Do you know what I mean? What's the point in having all these experiences if you can't share them with the people that you love? so a load of mates and family came out to see us and it was absolutely gorgeous we were in rome and we lived in a place called via margota which was just off the plaza de spania wow you said that thank you very much yeah so but we had a wonderful time um and that's and the food yeah the food is unbelievable isn't it i think it's quite possibly my favorite yeah my favorite cuisine i tell you so yeah i met him we were trying to work it out the other day i think way before the kids so about 27 years ago i met leo and we did gangs in new york together and we've been was that scorsese yeah wow yeah and we've been mates ever since so it's you leo it's a buzz i'm gonna go to where with me mate you know what i mean every day you and leo christian bale is in it as well christian

46:51Lennie Ware: Oh my god Jesus Okay When I mean you are One of the greats You really are And you're also with You're acting Alongside Greats a lot But I mean that's quite a That's like Avengers Ascendal It's slightly phenomenal Right We're going to send you off On to a desert island Okay For six months What's going to be The meal you'll have Before you go away To sustain your What was your last What's your main per drink of choice? Oh, this is Death Row dinner. We play this at all. No, we don't like it. No, no, no, no, no, no. I look at Desert Island. I'm down for Death Row dinner. I look at Desert Island. If we don't.

47:30Lennie Ware: Okay. Well, I mean, I've been playing this game for years, so. Let's do it. You ready? Yeah. Okay. First of all, do you want to know where they're from as well? Yeah. One Ton Soup. Okay. One Ton Soup. One Ton Soup. Which one? One Ton Soup from New York in Chinatown. Can't remember exactly where it was, but I went upstairs in this dingy looking little gaff sat there and i had found my mecca i was there and this bowl was massive and i was like okay can i have a one-ton soup please and they were like yeah they came and it just it was like shining there in front of me you know where it was just beautiful and i tasted it and it was the most delicious one-ton soup i've ever had and i was obsessed with one-ton soup because when i was a kid i mean my ma used to go into chinatown and we'd go and have a chinese i'd always knock the cold home so I get that all that kind of stuff um and me me mum would always get a wanton soup and I would go wait you haven't wanton soup and she'd go this is how you tell whether or not they're good because this is the best one to judge them by oh wow this is how you judge this is how you judge a proper Chinese restaurant okay I was like all right my egg is a taste then that became my go-to and what's the stuffing in it is it pork yes or prawns sometimes but mostly pork yeah okay Okay, so we're going wanton soup from Chinatown in New York.

48:45Yeah.

48:46Lennie Ware: Where are we going next? All right. Now I get a bit swatty. Yeah, it's okay. But I'm having lobster. Yeah. Could be it. Lobster. Grilled or? Grilled. Okay. Yeah, grilled lobster. Fresh from where? Fresh from, well, I was with Buch once again in New York. We were in New York and we went to, is it Chelsea Market? Chelsea Island? Yeah, yeah. We'd got all the big fresh fish and all that. and we bought these fucking giant lobsters. They were amazing. Were they alive or dead? Yeah, they were alive. Oh, my God. I'm so sorry. You took them home. Yeah, and Buck was like, because I was like, what are we?

49:20Jesus. No, I know Buck. Who's Buck? Buck's my mate from America. Okay, fine. He's amazing. Big old fuck. Okay. And he threw them in a big pan. I know it's terrible. I know, I'm sorry. No, it's not that. No. We had to put them in the bag and all that and carry them on to the flat, the apartment. I don't think I could do it, but they put little elastic bands on their pins. Oh, Mum. Yeah, I know. So they can't crawl out. Grace loves it, but she'll never pick one out of her three. No, I wouldn't do that. Okay, so you're having that. So that goes in there. I'm having that, and I'm having my antivirus chips.

49:50Why were they so good? Because they were unbelievable. What was it? Handmade chips. Handmade chips, proper chips. And they have a proper chip pan. She had a proper chip pan. Yeah, with little bits in it as well occasionally, do you know what I mean? Do you know what a chip pan looks like? Yeah, Gaga used to have one. Yeah, it's like a little... She used to do her chopped and fried fish in there.

50:06Lennie Ware: It's when they go sweeter in a chip pan, I feel. Like there's a sweetener. And they're soft. And it's like spud in the middle. And it's like soft mashed potato. Soft, yeah. But she could cook them perfect. But crispy on the outside. But crispy on the outside. Whenever my kids would go to Liverpool, it would always go, can we go to Antivirus so we can have some chips? And my mum made good chips as well. My mum did make great chips, but not as good as our vera chips. So lobster and chips. Lobster and chips. And I'll have to have a green on there, won't I? You don't know. No, no, I do want a green.

50:36Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'll have some broccolini. Oh. Broccolini. Yes, I almost want some time in America. No, no, and nice, but yes, yeah. And Italian. What's the difference between broccoli? I don't really understand it. Is it just spears? I don't know what is the actual difference.

50:53Lennie Ware: Is it just the little ones? Yeah, I think they're a bit smaller. I don't mind purple-edded broccoli as well. That's nice. Purple-edded broccoli. Purple-edded broccoli. Drink of choice? Oh, okay. I will have oh what will I have I'll have I'll have a peppermint tea ooh lovely with a little bit of honey Jessie you could have given him one I can give you one I got some mint in the garden would you like a peppermint tea we can have one yeah if you don't if you want one I can do it now no no no is she in the bushes there I'll just get it why don't you make me a proper peppermint tea well I thought we were going to try it let me have a little tiny taste I wouldn't no it's worth a taste yeah Jesse he's going to try really I'm going to try it sadly Jesse you're going to have to present me with this dessert what would you have for dessert on your before okay now this this dessert lives in its own paradoxical universe okay okay so listen to this dessert okay when I was a kid yeah and I used to go to Tarni for my school dinner I'd go to Sayers that's a bakery okay I don't know if they only existed in Liverpool or whatever I don't know and I come from Manchester so I don't know.

52:05I don't think he's had a Sayers, did you? Okay. And this is the duality of life in a different way, yeah? So I'd go to Sayers and I'd have a cheese pasty, religiously, without fail, and a cream slice. A cream slice. With a pink icing on it. Oh my goodness. So it was like flaky pastry. Yes. And you had icing on the top. Yes. And then just cream whacked in. Cream whacked in with like some kind of raspberry. Raspberry jam, yeah. Do you remember them? Of course. Cream Slice. So I'd have one of them from sales. I don't know if they do them anywhere. However. Yeah. And this is where things go. I went to, what's that really, what's that really lovely?

52:44Scots. Oh, yeah. That lovely restaurant. Right. Okay. And then I've gone that up to dessert. I've gone and I've looked at the thing and I've gone, what's that? Cream Slice. A Milfoy.

52:55Lennie Ware: Okay. Oh, I love a Milfoy. Yeah. I've never known how to say it. But it's almost like a Cream Slice. Milfoy, Milfoy, Milfoy. I don't know. It means a thousand leaves. A mille foie. She's mille foie. I'm married to a Frenchman. Mille foie. Mille foie. It just means leaves. You go quite camp when you do that. Mille foie. You have to do it mille foie. Yeah. So it's basically just a cream slice. Yeah. Isn't it? Delicious. Because it's layers. Yeah. And the icing. So because I'm on an island and it's my last one, I'll have one of the cream ones from Sayers. And one from Scott's. And a peppermint tea with honey.

53:38Lennie Ware: So we are trying something on this season where we get a kind of pay it forward, where a guest from the other episode asks you a question. Okay. So Kelly Rowland of Destiny's Child fame has got a question for you. She didn't even know who I was about you. She didn't have a clue. She definitely did. Kelly Rowland knew exactly who you were. She was gorgeous as well. I can imagine. She's beautiful looking. Oh, stunning. Unbelievable. Her skin is flawless. Her skin is... She's the face of Olay. It's funny you say that. Oh! It must be that super serum. She is beautiful. She's astonishing. Okay, so this is Kelly Rowland's question to Stephen Graham.

54:18Lennie Ware: Okay. What is the food that you could constantly eat in between takes? That's a really good question. For continuity. Like, you know, it's like something that you wouldn't get tired of. That's a really good question. So have you got an answer for Kelly? Yeah, it's basically anything. Oh, okay. And I'm not going to ruin it for you. Only because the trick is when you're having a conversation, you eat the bits that you need to eat, whatever. But then what we'll do is we'll keep you. Don't yummy too much. Timey. Make sure you don't put too much in your mouth. And then obviously when they say cut. oh my god yeah sorry is it not delicious well some of it is yeah most of the time we have one of them people on set now don't you like a food tech kind of person who makes sure it's all they do a few they need it to look good oh yeah but there's some stuff on which one chef boiling point boiling point there's some stuff on boiling point that you couldn't eat why because it's spray they have to spray it and make sure make sure it looks yeah but following on from Kelly Rowland, what food would you never get tired of that you could eat again and again and again?

55:33Is it scouts? It might be. It might be. It might be our various chips. But now though, let me think. Somehow you can just keep going. You lived in Italy. Italy didn't get a look in, I don't think. No, I know it didn't really, did it? I feel terrible about it. Probably just a simple, beautiful plate of pasta. And I mean simple pasta. Yeah. Very simple. With what on Just olive oil and garlic. A little bit of oil, a little bit of garlic. Maybe.

56:02Maybe. No. Antiochus? No. Lobster? No, no, no. Let's just keep it nice. Well, then we'll. Sorry. Face back again. Then we're going to go like a, what is it called? You can pronounce this properly. Is it fruit of the mer or something like that? Frui de mer. Excuse me? Frui de mer. Frui de mer. Doesn't she live down the road? I thought it was fruity. I thought it was fruit of the mer. I go in and I say, can I have the fruit of the mer, please, mate? So I should be going, can I have the. Friedemere. Friedemere. So which bit do you like of all the Friedemere? I just love it all. I think it's delicious.

56:33Yeah, no, I'll go that. Let's go that then. But not a massive load of spaghetti. What about... Just a small plate.

56:40Lennie Ware: Oysters. Are you an oyster? I love oysters. Oh my God. Yeah, I love oysters. I think they're delicious. I can do about three and then I'm like, yeah, okay, no, cool. I'm good. I can do that. I can eat. I can sit on me. And what do you put hot sauce on? I go, yeah. See, look, I go loads of pepper. Yeah. The little shallot thingy there. Throw that fella in. Then I get the Tabasco. Bang that in. You're like everything. Yeah, then I bang the Tabasco in. So have I done me Pepe? Yeah. Yeah, you did that at the beginning. Pepe, shallot, Tabasco. And then I have to ask very nicely because they normally have to get it from the bar.

57:12And this may be certain like purists may think I am a Philistine, but fuck them. I like to get some Worcester sauce.

57:19Lennie Ware: On top of that. And just drop it in. You're basically making kind of like a Bloody Mary. It's a bit like a Virgin Mary. I suppose I am. I'm not right. So you can't taste them probably. No, but then I don't mind them on their own. But especially with, because me mate Leon, he throws the thing and I'm like, what are you doing? That's the best bit. The sea. The juice. What did Hannah say? It's like eating snot. She said it's like giving a whale a blowjob. Oh my God.

57:48It's very funny. You need to get her on. You need to get her on, don't you? Is she a good girl? We do need her on. She's a fantastic kook. Is she? She's absolutely... I really looked out. Yeah. Namaste. I landed right on my feet. She's phenomenal.

58:06Lennie Ware: Darling, thank God for your cross. She's a wonderful kook. So listen, I'm going to try this with Stephen. So if we're going down, we're going down together. Hang on, let's throw that in there. Any crunchy bits. Oh, it would have been delicious. I know. Oh, yeah. I'm going in again. Lovely. Oh, do you know what? I think I've got food to that. what are you gonna do we found this out over like the past couple of years i never used to do it at all what's going on maybe you can answer the question what what when i have when i'm in a restaurant and i have something see i start i start going i can't do it in real life normally if i try to do it but i go like click and have another go and let's see what happens see it's gone it's honest to god and i'm not making it up is it when it's good or when it's Yeah, when it's good, it's like kind of my happy tune.

58:55We were having dinner once, me, Anna and Leon. And I fucking, I did this thing, right? I had it and then I turned into like, I went to Sad Clown. She was like, stop doing that. And I went, oh. And they were both like, what the fuck are you doing? And then I went into Happy Elephant. Any crunchy bits. But I'm like, I can't control it when it's happening. Have you ever been to that restaurant, Frog? No, Adam, what's his face? Yeah, I love his breast. Is it good? It's gorgeous. Have you been to? Yeah, the one in Covent Garden. Did you rip it? The best. It's unbelievable. It's so delicious. Are you making noises there?

59:33Adam Handler. I was like a fucking one-man band in the car. I was like, I am the music. Bing! The two of them were, I went, I'm going to the toilet. And them two were like, you two now, they were just pissing themselves laughing. I don't know where it comes from. Funny. Why has it started? I don't know now. I need to know what the next sound is. Hannah reckons it's because when I was a kid, my mum used to go, mmm,

59:54Lennie Ware: I'd be like, yum, yum, yum, yum. Do you know what I mean? I don't know. I mean, I'm good. Thank you for trying it, darling. You are so sweet. The last question that we need to ask you is, a nos... See? Enjoy it. I don't mind the sounds. It's beautiful. I swear to God, I didn't do it with the other... Now it's mostly just... Well, we know what you like more then, don't we? No, I don't mean it like that. Oh, bollocks. Sorry. I don't know. What is it? What's going on? My mouth just has this uncontrollable thing to do whatever it wants. I don't know. We've never had a guest like you before, to be perfectly frank.

1:00:33Lennie Ware: Okay, last question. Okay. Really enjoyed having you on, Stephen. Thank you very much. It's been a pleasure. You are amazing. An nostalgic taste that can transport you back somewhere, happy or sad? Oh, I'm going to go Bovril. Bovril at football matches. Yeah. yeah yeah i'm gonna go bovril with a bit of pepper where'd you get your pepper well they have it on the side you just have the little white thing you do that yeah but i mean to that um the pepper with the bovril you just where there's a pepper it's just one of them things it's one of them things as a kid but i mean like the proper footy matches you know like my uncles and that my cousin's playing footy and the side and the hot dog fan used to do bovril and that as well that's kind of where it is but then i took yeah I love Bovril Bovril's kind of there's something about that I can smell it yeah Stephen Graham thank you so much for coming on it's been an absolute pleasure good luck with the book good luck with Nocturne can't wait to see you on our screens again thank you for having me it's been an absolute joy thanks so much sorry about the chaos

1:01:46Lennie Ware: Stephen Graham I think I've just fallen in love I loved him so much and I also loved how much he loves his wife Hannah I love how warm he was and actually he had exactly what he thinks the world needs more of empathy Thanks, Stephen Graham, for Prime Minister. Yeah. Head of the world, I think. I loved chatting with him and kind of forgot that we were doing a food podcast. So just thank you so much to Stephen for being so open and fun and embracing the chaos that was this episode. It was chaotic. It was. There was a lot of noises today. Yeah, smoke alarm. Including Stephen's enjoyment of your lube.

1:02:29Lennie Ware: Yeah. I'm sorry about that. It looked really nice and it tasted really nice too. I didn't put it in the fridge. That's all I'm going to say. But you dropped it out of the fridge. I did drop it out of the fridge. So you kind of got overwhelmed with finding hot sauce. Yeah, I mean, the guy, look, I'm saying he's a really great guy, but he's quite demanding when it comes to hot food. Couldn't you have just offered him one hot thing? Yeah, but then I was trying to, like, you know, get him with Stephen Graham. Because you'd fallen in love already. I loved him so much. That's it. I just wanted to make sure he really enjoyed his food.

1:03:03Lennie Ware: Yeah. And doing so, lost a course. Sorry. Never mind. What a guy. Wonderful man. Letters to Our Sons is out now. And you can watch Nocturne on Apple TV at the end of October. Very different sides of Stephen Graham. And exciting to come. Yeah, he too. He too. Maybe you'll put in a good word with Christian and Leo. That'd be good, wouldn't it? Thank you to Stephen. Just brilliant. Had amazing answers and was just a wonderful guest. I did give him a hefty amount of cornbread. I thought the recipe was delicious. Mira Soda, you're so good. She's clever. Oh, I'm going to make that for Sam's. Are you supposed to have it as big as that?

1:03:50No, give those portions that big.

1:03:52Lennie Ware: No, I'm learning maybe I should have done a smaller portion for Stephen. but he had said that he hadn't eaten all day. I think maybe his stomach had shrunk. Yeah, but you start small and then they can ask for more. Yeah, I know. Well, yeah. Hey-ho. But he was getting his visa so he can go off and film heat. There you go. We'll see you next week for more Table Manners and sorry about the pud. Never mind.