How to build a career you actually love | Bill Gurley

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2:09Terms and conditions apply. Can you think of the last time you learned something completely new? I used that muscle so often when I was in school or when I was just young and trying to figure out how to make it in the real world. But as I got older, routines fell into place, habits settled, and that muscle got a bit complacent. Then at age 43, I decided to learn how to scuba dive. Talk about an immersive learning experience. There were so many technical steps I needed to be aware of. I figured out how it felt to be buoyant, how my body reacted to being in the water. And then there was this whole new world under the surface that I was beginning to study.

2:56Different varieties of fish, coral, and even sharks. I remember feeling obsessed with all the new knowledge I was acquiring. And even though it was worlds apart from the work I do, I actually found ways to relate it to my research on physiological responses to stress. Scuba diving helped me to be more aware of the mind-body connection and how to self-regulate and stay calm when literally under pressure. And making that connection made me fall in love with my work in new ways I never expected. Lifelong learning is a big part of people's job satisfaction. But the more practice we get in our profession, the more distant this kind of learning can feel.

3:40So how do we fix that? I'm Madhu Bakanola. This is TED Business, a podcast from TED. Our speaker today is venture capitalist and author Bill Gurley. Bill has spent the last six years studying what drives career excellence, and his research has shown that the thing most high achievers have in common is an obsession with learning. His talk challenges us to reconnect with the pursuit of knowledge, especially in a time when it's easier than ever to let machines do the learning for us. Then after the talk, I'll share some insights on how to re-spark curiosity and assassination in your own life. But first, a quick break.

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6:54Bill Gurley: I'm going to start with a story, a good story, a true story. In 1983, my friend Danny was 25 years old. A few years earlier, he had graduated from Trinity College with a poli-sci degree. Bounced around for a while, but fell into a really cool job in sales. He sold those doohickeys they attach to clothes in the department store so you can't steal them. He was good at it. He was making a lot of money. But as a poli-sci student, he'd always planned to take the next step, law school. So the night before the LSAT, he's out for dinner with his Uncle Richard, a place called Elio's on the Upper East Side.

7:33Bill Gurley: And Uncle Richard can tell something's not right. Danny, what's eating you? Ah, I have to take the LSAT tomorrow, and I don't really want to. Uncle Richard probed. So why are you? I'll get back to Danny and Uncle Richard in a minute, but let me tell you why I'm here. I spent the past six years studying what drives career excellence. A co-writer, a researcher, and I combed through over 100 biographies. We talked to some of the leading academicians in the field, looked at their research, and we even did our own survey with Wharton. We turned that into a book. What did we find? There were many common traits, but one thing stood out above everything else.

8:14Bill Gurley: Continuous and obsessive learning. They were all lifetime students. They knew the history of their field. They understand the nuance of their field, the thing that separates great from good. They know the edge of their field. That's where innovation lies. And they studied throughout their entire career, beginning, middle, and end. I'd like to think they thought about their craft as an artisan, with an artisan mindset. And I've come to believe these artisans exist in every field. Here's a fun example. In 2015, at the annual chess competition in Iceland, they did something fun. They held a history trivia contest.

8:52Bill Gurley: Guess who won? Magnus Carlsen, the world champion. See, he's not just great at chess, he knew the history. But if you study Magnus Carlsen, you know this to be true. It's very low likelihood that he got to a place in his career where he says, oh boy, to be even better at chess, I need to study the history. I'm going to go do it. It was a different mechanism. And this is my key point, the key takeaway right here at the beginning. Obsessive and continuous learning is not an input. It's an output. It's not the cause. It's the effect. What's the cause? What drives someone to learn for a lifetime? In 2024, Jerry Seinfeld, the comedian, gave the commencement speech at Duke University.

9:35Bill Gurley: And after making fun, which he's good at, making fun of the phrase, follow your passion, he come up with a different word, a better word, a more precise word. He said you should follow your fascination. I really love this distinction. You see, passion doesn't invoke work. You could be passionate about the Cincinnati Reds and sit in a chair for three and a half hours drinking beer. but fascination comes with a mechanism. When you're fascinated, you study automagically. By the way, I know that's not a real word. Back to Danny. Uncle Richard kept pressing. Danny, all you've ever thought about and talked about your whole life is food and restaurants.

10:19Bill Gurley: Why don't you open a restaurant? Danny listened. He took the LSAT the next morning, but he never enrolled in law school. Instead, he enrolled in a$300 restaurant management course that he found in a magazine. He would then take a 90 % pay cut to get his foot in the door to a local restaurant, where he could rotate through the different jobs. And then he planned a trip through Europe, a learning trip, where he would stodge in many different countries, many different cuisines. Stodge is a fancy French word that means work for free. He then went back to New York. He had to study some more location buildings.

11:02Bill Gurley: Then in 1985, a full year after that momentous dinner, Danny opened Union Square Cafe. Union Square Cafe would be recognized by Zagat Magazine as New York's favorite restaurant eight times. And Danny would go on to launch over a dozen high-end restaurants in New York, including Eleven Madison, Gramercy Tavern, The Modern. For you younger folks out there, he would then after that found and launch Shake Shack, which has 400 locations worldwide and a$4 billion market cap. Every time Danny started a new concept, he'd do a year of learning and study before he'd launch. When I talked to him last fall, he was just back from Europe on another learning tour.

11:46Bill Gurley: Over 40 years later, still in his DNA. Uncle Richard did two things really amazing that night. First, he saved the world from another lawyer.

12:03Bill Gurley: But second and more importantly, he unleashed Danny's career around this amazing fascination that he had. One dinner, one comment, and a bit flip from zero to one, and the rest is history. It feels magical. I think a lot of magical things happen when you combine fascination with a career. First, obviously, you're more fulfilled and you're more happy. Second, the learning comes for free. What do I mean by that? Zero conscious effort. When you're learning about something you don't like, it saps your energy. You get tired. You need a break. When you learn about something you're fascinated by, you get energy.

12:45Bill Gurley: You want to smile. Now, that contrast is massive, and it's why Danny knew exactly what to do, and it's precisely why Magnus Carlsen knew the history. The third thing that happens when you combine career as fascination is people notice. If you're enthusiastic and have extra knowledge, you're going to do better in every dimension of your career. You're going to crush it in interviews. You're going to get promoted. You're going to attract mentors. And maybe most importantly, opportunity comes at you. Oh, I hear you're interested in starting a documentary. You have to talk to Sally. She's obsessed by them.

13:24Bill Gurley: Those introductions happen all the time. The last thing that happens is the fascinated people leave big footprints. Uncle Richard didn't just help Danny. Think of the thousands and thousands of people that have worked in and learned in Danny's restaurants. Think about the millions of customers that have felt his hospitality. And think about the restaurant owners and small business owners that have read his book, Setting the Table. It's really, really a massive impact. So how many people make it to this magical place? In 2023, Gallup did a poll where they asked what percentage of people are thriving and engaged in their job.

14:05Bill Gurley: Only 23 % said yes. A full 59 % they put in this category they called quiet quitters. They said they were ambivalent about their job, emotionally disconnected. In our own survey, we asked people, are you in your dream job and do you want a do-over? And only 20 % said, yes, I'm in my dream job and I don't need a do-over. So maybe it's as low as one in five, 20%. Why isn't it better? I think there are a few issues. First, I think the path to and through college is broken. I think it's because schools are so damn hard to get into. In sixth grade, we begin what Jonathan Haidt has termed the resume arms race.

14:45Bill Gurley: We do Mandarin lessons, lacrosse lessons, cello lessons, volunteering, and that's just by Tuesday. The kids feel pressure and the parents feel pressure, and I think we know something's wrong there. Second, we've moved the decision goalposts. When I was young, they wouldn't allow you to declare a major until the end of your sophomore year of college. Today at many schools, you have to apply to the major when you fill out the application. We made the life decision from 20 years to 17 years old. Have you ever asked a 17-year-old what they want to do the rest of their life? They really don't know.

15:24Bill Gurley: They really don't know. The last thing is several well-intentioned parents and advisors, and I want to repeat well-intentioned, have pushed kids towards the safe jobs. Medicine, legal, finance, comp sci. But what if the safe jobs aren't safe anymore? Along comes AI. You know all those formulas and algorithms you learned in school that helped you take the test? They're all in the model. If you're not advancing your learning after you leave college, they're catching up. And I don't think it's the jobs we love that are under threat. It's the ones people were ambivalent about already. The 59%, the quiet quitters.

16:09Bill Gurley: But maybe what's really under threat is the static mindset. What about the artisans, the fascinated artisans? Mark Cuban said something the other day. He said there's two types of people in the world. Those that use LLMs to learn faster than ever and those that use LLMs to skip learning altogether. The reality is for these fascinated artisans, AI is a jetpack. They learn faster. They soar higher. So how do we get more people in this lane? I fear the institutions aren't set up for it. They're set up for high-volume mass manufacturing, not bespoke, individualized, customized fascination discovery.

16:50Bill Gurley: But if they can't, who will? I'm going to close with two short stories that might point us in the right direction. My wife and I relocated to Austin four years ago, and we've had a chance to meet this very famous actor that lives there. You may know the one. All right, all right, all right. You got it. When Matthew was young, he was really good at winning arguments, and his whole family told him, you should be a lawyer, and he decided that's a great idea. He headed off to college. During his sophomore year, he fell in with some friends at the film school, really loved it, wanted to switch, but he was fearful of his stern father's reaction.

17:29Bill Gurley: He eventually set up a call, walked through the logic, long pause, and his father says, don't half-ass it.

17:40Bill Gurley: Matthew said it was the last thing he expected him to say and the best thing he could have possibly said. And with those three simple words, oh wait, I think half-ass is hyphenated. With those four simple words, he unleashed another artisan, an Oscar-winning one, and also saved us from another lawyer.

18:06Bill Gurley: A few months ago, I got an email from a friend I hadn't heard from in a while. His name's Doug. He had seen me talking about these topics on a podcast and he wanted to share a family story. His son Jackson's a senior at Wake Forest Finance Track, but in all his spare time, he loves to study basketball analytics. On a recent trip, he would wake up at 7 a.m. go to the coffee shop and do his basketball studying before the family activities. Last summer, he did an internship in basketball, not finance. His father told me that he'd been on his own journey, a parental journey, from awareness to acceptance to enthusiasm to full support.

18:49Bill Gurley: And as he went through those stages, he could see Jackson's confidence grow. I have a hunch Jackson's going to have a great career. So if it's not up to the institution, maybe it's up to us, the individuals, parents, counselors, friends, family. It doesn't take much, a comment, a nudge, holding up a mirror so they can see maybe what they already knew. Matthew's dad gave him a green light. Danny had Uncle Richard. And they had incredible careers based around their fascination. Maybe all the world really needs is many, many more Uncle Richards. And I hope there's a bunch of you out there in the audience today.

19:55We'll see you next time. fees. Be smart. Get wise. Download the WISE app today. T's and C's apply. With no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One. If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep, even on weekends, it's pretty much all he talks about in a good way. What's in your wallet. Terms apply. See CapitalOne.com slash bank. Capital One N.A. Member FDIC. The most effective people at work aren't working harder than everyone else.

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21:08That was Bill Gurley at TED 2026. The data point that Bill gave that only 23 % of people said they are thriving and feeling engaged at work is disheartening. And trust me, I know some of those people, and you do too. Maybe you're one of them. But I think we should take Bill's point to heart. You have to look beyond these institutions to keep that lifelong curiosity and fascination alive. And sometimes, we can turn to our most intimate relationships for that kind of nudge. Maybe you're looking for an Uncle Richard. Maybe you are an Uncle Richard. Maybe you're someone who can help inspire somebody to be curious, to learn something new, and to see the world a little differently too.

21:57And trust me, it doesn't have to be related to anyone's job. Lord knows scuba diving is not my job, and I want to acknowledge it's not something that's readily accessible to lots of people. But it taught me how to breathe in a new way, and it reacquainted me with the feeling of being taught. So take a look at your life, your relationships, your interests, your community, and see where you might be able to learn something new. Or think about something you've always wanted to try and give yourself the permission to finally just do it. Take a friend with you and make it a fun time. And as you move through your routine, through your habits, keep asking yourself, how can I connect with my curiosity?

22:44And how can I help someone else connect to theirs too? That's it for today. TED Business is part of the TED Audio Collective. This episode was produced by Hannah Kingsley-Ma, edited by Alejandra Salazar, and fact-checked by Julia Dickerson. Special thanks to Maria Latias, Farah Degrunge, Daniela Balarezo, Tansika Sangmanivang, and Roxanne Hilash. I'm Madhupa Akinola. Thanks for listening.

23:42We'll see you next time. one.com slash bank capital one na member fdic