Modupe's Top 5 (#1): Why you should talk about your anxiety at work | Adam Whybrew

0:00This episode is sponsored by Toyota. There's something powerful about momentum, that feeling when things are moving forward, when you're not stuck, you're not waiting, you're just going. That's true in life and it's true in how we move through the world. Toyota's new all-electric vehicles are built to support that kind of momentum, whether it's the quick acceleration of the CHR, the versatility of the BZ, or the capability of the BZ Woodland. And with access to a growing network of chargers, including Tesla superchargers, it's designed to keep you moving. not slowing you down. Because capability isn't just about power, it's about removing friction.

0:35Learn more at Toyota.com, the new all-electric family. Toyota, let's go places. With no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One. If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to to assist with your banking needs. Yep, even on weekends, it's pretty much all he talks about, in a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See CapitalOne.com slash bank. Capital One N-A member FDIC. Hi there, it's Adam Grant from Ted's Rethinking Podcast, and this episode is brought to you by ServiceNow.

1:18I get to spend my days studying how people think and what it actually takes to change our minds. It's work I find deeply meaningful. But even in meaningful work, there's still busy work. The admin, the repetitive processes, the invisible load that pulls attention away from what really matters. That's where ServiceNow's AI specialists come in. They don't just tell you what you should do about your busy work. They actually do it. Start to finish. Cases closed. Requests handled. No extra work for you. To learn how to put AI to work for people, visit servicenow.com.

1:52Hi, listeners. It's Madhupe, the host of TED Business. Summer is fully underway, and that means we are well into 2026. I will never, ever be able to wrap my head around how quickly time moves. But as a way to process time passing, I'm going to do something a little different. I'm sharing a playlist of some of my favorite talks we've ever aired on this show. So settle in as we take a trip down memory lane. All of these talks are so different from one another. That's what I've loved about hosting this show. Every week brings a different topic, a different approach, a different way of seeing and thinking.

2:34But I think if there's one overarching quality these five talks share, it's that they remind us that our relationships to work, to personal finance, to our colleagues, are all distinctly human. In an increasingly automated world, that idea can truly change everything. Whether the speaker is harnessing humor or vulnerability or their own memories of growing up, these talks are anchored by compelling storytelling. They remind us that the professional doesn't mean sacrificing the personal and that all organizations are made up of people trying to figure something out together. You'll hear business leader Adam Wybrew make a case for talking about your anxiety in the workplace.

3:19President and CEO of Morehouse School of Medicine, Valerie Montgomery Rice, share how she stepped up to become a leader in her field. Director Barry Sonnenfeld on the lessons he's learned on set that can translate to the office. Goodwill strategist James Rhee on the power of kindness. and nonprofit leader Aisha Yandoro on rethinking what wealth means. If there's one thing I've learned from my many years of researching stress, it's this. Never tell someone deep in the throes of it that it's going to be fine. That response is not really helpful. Neither is you shouldn't be stressed or don't worry about it.

4:05And I understand why people might say something like this. We generally like to reassure people in times of crisis. We want to let them know that we believe in them and that they're going to be okay. But it's actually better to acknowledge someone's feelings and allow them to process and be present with their emotions. Because sweeping them under the rug never works out in the long run.

4:31I'm Madhupa Akinola. This is TED Business, a podcast from the TED Audio Collective. Our speaker today, Adam Wybrew, is the director at BCG, and he's also known as a depression truth teller. His own experience with depression turned him into an advocate for those struggling with mental illness in the workplace. He's here to share how creating an organization where people are allowed to be vulnerable about what they're going through benefits everyone. Then after the talk, I'll discuss the importance of advocating for change at an institutional level and what that might look like. But first, a quick break.

5:16This episode is sponsored by Toyota. There's something powerful about momentum, that feeling when things are moving forward, when you're not stuck, you're not waiting, you're just going. That's true in life, and it's true in how we move through the world. Toyota's new all-electric vehicles are built to support that kind of momentum, whether it's the quick acceleration of the CHR, the versatility of the BZ, or the capability of the BZ woodland. And with access to a growing network of chargers, including Tesla superchargers, it's designed to keep you moving, not slowing you down. Because capability isn't just about power, it's about removing friction.

5:51Learn more at Toyota.com. The new all-electric family. Toyota, let's go places. With no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One. If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep, even on weekends, it's pretty much all he talks about. In a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See CapitalOne.com slash bank. Capital One N.A. Member FDIC.

6:31And now Adam Wybrew takes the TED stage.

6:39So I lead teams of data scientists and we solve business problems using difficult analytics. And when I start working with someone new, I ask them how I will know if they're struggling. and I don't mean struggling with a business problem or with a difficult analytics. They don't struggle with that. I mean struggling with their mental health and to make them feel comfortable to tell me because I want them to tell me, I tell them how they will know if I'm struggling. So I might be just unrealistically calm or they might get any kind of message from me at all before nine in the morning, because I'm not a morning person.

7:25Message before nine, very bad sign. Now, I do this because I have suffered from anxiety and depression, and it was horrible. And if there was a magic button I could press that would rid the world of those two things, I'd press it straight away. But if that button only worked for me, if all it meant is that I wouldn't have got depressed, I'd leave it alone. And that's because of some things that happened in the weeks and months as I was recovering from depression, but also things that happened years later when I started talking about it at work, and it improved my relationships with colleagues.

8:08So let's step back in time. It's 2012. It's a Friday morning in May and the sun is out in London. I'm walking to work along the banks of the Thames and all around there are British flags flying and there's this quiet excitement in the city. And that's because the Olympics were coming there in two months time. And that morning, like every other morning at the time, I'd woken up about three hours earlier than normal, thinking and worrying about work. And I'd got up just retching with anxiety and gone to the bathroom and been sick. And I felt a bit better after that, made my way to work. But by the time I got to work, I could barely speak.

8:57So I could just about order a cup of coffee. But apart from that, for the mornings, I was pretty much silent. And coffee was about the extent of my diet. So I'd pretty much given up eating. And that's probably not what you would have expected if you'd been walking past me on that sunny Friday morning with flags flying and the Olympics coming. And after a couple of weeks, things hadn't got any better. And so I decided I shouldn't go to work. So I phoned the team and told them. And a few days later, I got professional help. and what a difference that made. So my psychologist gave me really simple, practical advice.

9:40Things like you really need to eat because feeling anxious and feeling hungry are very similar feelings in your body. Another bit of advice was don't get up and go to the bathroom and be sick, get up, go to the kitchen, make a cup of tea, read a book. So I did that, helped a bit with the morning vomiting. I had to learn how to switch off from work. Now, anyone can stop working. That's easy. The difficult thing is stopping thinking about work. And to do that, I would imagine a green force field around the house that would keep thoughts of work out. And I still switch that force field on from time to time.

10:24It helps me put off until tomorrow things that I could do today. And if I do them tomorrow, they'll be a bit rushed. They will be less good, but they'll be good enough. And my wife, who saw this change in my working patterns, was convinced I was going to get fired. I actually have been promoted twice since then. Now, I also had to learn how to enjoy spending time with my wife and with my family and friends. And it sounds easy, but it really wasn't at first. So I remember going out for a pizza with the family and all I wanted to do was lie on the floor, curl up into a ball and groan. Now, fortunately for everyone in the pizza restaurant, I didn't do that.

11:09But it was still really awkward because all I could think of to talk about was how miserable I was. Anyway, with a bit of practice, it got less awkward. I got a bit less self-absorbed and I learned to enjoy other people again. And one day about a few weeks after I first got professional help, I woke up in the morning feeling fine, just feeling normal. And I have done every day since then. now some people can do a really good job at work when they're anxious or depressed and I am not one of those people so I really did a terrible job the team had to carry me it's really very difficult to contribute if you can't speak all morning it's the first time I'd ever really failed at anything and I can't tell you how comforting it is now to know that I can fail at something, even something quite important.

12:10Life will go on and I'll be fine. And because I'd done such a terrible job at work, I didn't want anyone to know about it. It was this kind of shameful secret. So the strange thing is what happened when I did start talking about it at work. And it started very privately. So if I was working with someone and it seemed like they were struggling, I'd tell them some of my story. That seemed to help a bit. It wasn't as awkward and horrible as I thought it might be. So I got a bit braver and I said to our HR team, if you come across someone who's struggling with their mental health, I'll be happy to talk to them one-on-one if you think it would help.

12:53And I did that a few times and I still do. And what that meant was when the HR team were putting together a booklet about what to do if you're struggling with your mental health, they asked me and some other people to share our stories anonymously. And I did that. But when I sent the message, I asked them to print my name next to it. Now, have you ever sent a message and thought, oh, I wonder if that was a good idea? so that was what I felt and I was quite scared it was going to hundreds of people there was no going back it was in writing and I was worried people would think it would happen again and they wouldn't want to work with me I was worried they'd think I was weak and self-indulgent and maybe some people do and I was worried that even if they didn't think either of those things it would just be on their minds when they were talking to me later on that's not what happened what actually happened was people got in touch to say it was really comforting to have someone quite senior say, I had this experience.

13:53It was horrible. I got through it. I'm still here and I'm doing fine.

14:01And gradually I started talking about it to larger and larger audiences. So there's a podcast about it. We did a session for people who were struggling during lockdown. And if you're not sick of hearing about me being sick in the mornings, you can read about it on two websites. And one day, about 10 years after that sunny day in London, I stood up in front of 600 of my colleagues and told them the full story. And after that, people from all levels of the company, right up to the very top, took me aside and shared that they had either been through something like that, or they were going through something like that at the time.

14:43And then I'd say the most common emotion that I picked up from them was relief, that they were just relieved that someone was talking about it openly. One person actually took me aside on the stairs more than a year later to say it had given him the push he needed and wanted to go and get some help for some things he was struggling with at the time. Now, one of the people in that audience of 600 was new to the company. And she said to me, hearing that talk made me feel like this was my kind of place. And I think she actually got to the bottom of what it made me feel like. So if I could stand up in front of all my colleagues and tell them this story that had been terribly embarrassing and upsetting and shameful, felt shameful at the time, and it was fine, well, it made it feel like my kind of place too.

15:38and we know from Amy Edmondson's work on psychological safety that that feeling improves the performance of teams. Now, I didn't stand up and tell 600 people about vomiting in the morning to improve their performance, but if it does, I'll take it. That's great. It is possible to go too far with this, and I know that because I did. So I got some great anonymous feedback that said, Adam is always talking to me to make sure I'm not depressed or anxious. He never talks to me about work or my career. So after that, I changed a bit what I talk to people about. Now, I'm not saying that if you've suffered from mental illness, you should tell everyone at work all about it.

16:26If you're experiencing it now, you probably won't regret telling someone you trust. if you've recovered, you may find like me that telling people about it goes better than you expect. There's no guarantees and there's still plenty of prejudice around. Nor am I saying that if you are suffering from anxiety or depression, you should be really thankful because of all these terrific benefits you're going to get that I got and it's good for your character. I'm not saying that at all. It's really horrible. I feel for you. If you are lucky enough to be able to get professional help, please do. I cannot tell you how much of a difference that has made to my life.

17:12If you can't get professional help, look for free resources online. And in either case, remember that you're not the first person to have gone through something like this, that depression and anxiety are treatable and that you are not alone.

17:34Now, on that sunny Friday morning in London, I had no idea that within a few months I would have recovered to something better than I was before I started to get anxious. And when I felt really worried sending the message to the HR team about printing my name next to my story, I had no idea what would follow from that and how beneficial it would be for me and for other people. There's no guarantees that anyone else will experience the same thing. And that's why if there was this magic button for ridding the world of anxiety and depression, I'd press it straight away. But unfortunately, that button is still an imaginary button.

18:19It's not real. And while it stays like that, I think we would all do better by talking about it. Thank you.

18:50are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep, even on weekends, it's pretty much all he talks about in a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See CapitalOne.com slash bank. Capital One N.A. Member FDIC. Hi there, it's Adam Grant from Ted's Rethinking Podcast, and this episode is brought to you by ServiceNow. I get to spend my days studying how people think and what it actually takes to change our minds. It's work I find deeply meaningful. But even in meaningful work, there's still busy work. The admin, the repetitive processes, the invisible load that pulls attention away from what really matters.

19:28That's where ServiceNow's AI specialists come in. They don't just tell you what you should do about your busy work. They actually do it. Start to finish. Cases closed. Requests handled. No extra work for you. To learn how to put AI to work for people, visit servicenow.com. Hi, I'm Molly Graham, host of Work Life, a podcast from TED. The most important lessons about work usually aren't the ones anyone teaches you. They come from experience, from uncertainty, from figuring things out as you go. On this show, my expert guests and I explore how careers really unfold. Through change, through doubt, through the decisions that shape who we become over time.

20:09Because those moments aren't the exception. They are the work. Listen to Work Life wherever you get your podcasts.

20:22That was Adam Wybrew speaking at TED at BCG. It's inspiring to hear how much change Adam created in his organization. He's made a real difference in the lives of his colleagues, and that process has clearly influenced his sense of purpose and fulfillment in his career. But the onus shouldn't be on individuals alone to serve as advocates for important causes. Employees shouldn't always have to share what's hard and vulnerable in order to transform an organization. This advocacy should happen on an institutional level, too. I've seen this at Columbia Business School, where I work, teach, and do research.

21:05The students there started something called CBS Matters. Several times a year, in each section of around 70 students, a few students volunteer to share what matters most to them. And it's pretty cool to experience. You feel closer to the presenter. You feel more connected as a community. It also grants other people the courage to openly share who they are and what they're all about. What I like about this forum is it opens the door for conversations to occur that may seem difficult or uncomfortable. You don't have to share if you don't want to, but if you do, this structured environment makes it easier for people to do so in a way where they feel valued, safe, heard, and acknowledged.

21:50So how can we create spaces like these in our organizations where sharing is both celebrated and a choice? This is something we should think long and hard about. That's it for today. TED Business is part of the TED Audio Collective. This episode was produced by Hannah Kingsley-Ma, edited by Alejandra Salazar, and fact-checked by Julia Dickerson. Special thanks to Maria Lages, Farrah DeGrunge, Daniela Balarezo, and Roxanne Hylash. I'm Madupa Akinola. Thanks for listening. This episode is sponsored by Toyota. One of the most interesting parts of being human is that we're all a little different. Different preferences, different priorities, different ways of seeing the world.

22:43And ideally, the things we use should reflect that. Toyota's new all-electric lineup is built as a family, but not a uniform one. Each vehicle has its own personality, from the sleek, expressive design of the CHR to the more rugged feel of the BZ woodland. It's not about standing out for the sake of it. It's about finding something that actually feels like you. Learn more at Toyota.com. the new all-electric family. Toyota. Let's go places.

23:35dot com slash bank. Capital One N.A. Member FDIC.

24:05tell you what you should do about your busy work. They actually do it. Start to finish. Cases closed. Requests handled. No extra work for you. To learn how to put AI to work for people, visit servicenow.com.