Modupe's Top 5 (#3): How to get people to do what you want | Barry Sonnenfeld

0:00With no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One. If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep, even on weekends, it's pretty much all he talks about. In a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See CapitalOne.com slash bank. Capital One N.A. Member FDIC. Hi there, it's Adam Grant from Ted's Rethinking Podcast, and this episode is brought to you by ServiceNow. I get to spend my days studying how people think and what it actually takes to change our minds.

0:40It's work I find deeply meaningful. But even in meaningful work, there's still busy work. The admin, the repetitive processes, the invisible load that pulls attention away from what really matters. That's where ServiceNow's AI specialists come in. They don't just tell you what you should do about your busy work. They actually do it. Start to finish. Cases closed. Requests handled. No extra work for you. To learn how to put AI to work for people, visit servicenow.com. A random influencer. A friend who read something somewhere. Your doctor. It can be hard to know where to get trusted health information.

1:19TED Health is a podcast that will help you focus on the stuff that you actually need to know to live your healthiest life. I'm Dr. Shoshana Ungerleiter, a practicing internist, and I share weekly TED Talks from certified health experts that break down the questions you're always getting different answers to. Get the science-backed ideas for a healthier you with TED Health, wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, listeners. It's Madhupe, the host of TED Business. Summer is fully underway, and that means we are well into 2026. I will never, ever be able to wrap my head around how quickly time moves.

2:02But as a way to process time passing, I'm going to do something a little different. I'm sharing a playlist of some of my favorite talks we've ever aired on this show. So settle in as we take a trip down memory lane. All of these talks are so different from one another. That's what I've loved about hosting this show. Every week brings a different topic, a different approach, a different way of seeing and thinking. But I think if there's one overarching quality these five talks share, it's that they remind us that our relationships to work, to personal finance, to our colleagues are all distinctly human.

2:41In an increasingly automated world, that idea can truly change everything. Whether the speaker is harnessing humor or vulnerability or their own memories of growing up, these talks are anchored by compelling storytelling. They remind us that the professional doesn't mean sacrificing the personal and that all organizations are made up of people trying to figure something out together. You'll hear business leader Adam Wybrew make a case for talking about your anxiety in the workplace. President and CEO of Morehouse School of Medicine, Valerie Montgomery Rice, share how she stepped up to become a leader in her field.

3:22Director Barry Sonnenfeld on the lessons he's learned on set that can translate to the office. Goodwill strategist James Rhee on the power of kindness. And nonprofit leader Aisha Yandoro on rethinking what wealth means.

3:41you know what i love when a ted talk is not just informative but also really funny there's something about comedy that makes the information so much easier to digest but it's a tricky line to toe it's got to feel natural organic comfortable our speaker today would agree and would tell us it's important to never let anyone know you're trying to be funny you just have to be funny And lucky for us, this talk genuinely is. I'm Madupa Akinola. This is TED Business, a podcast from TED. Today's speaker is film and television director Barry Sonnenfeld. You probably know his work from the Addams Family Values to the original Men in Black trilogy.

4:30He's used to juggling multi-million dollar budgets, large casts and crews, and difficult executives, all with an excellent sense of humor. Because sometimes you just have to laugh at the absurd world around you. He's here to share nine lessons he's learned in his long career. Then after the talk, we'll think about how humor makes your message extra sticky. But first, a quick break.

5:00With no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One. If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep, even on weekends, it's pretty much all he talks about. In a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See CapitalOne.com slash bank. Capital One N.A. Member FDIC. Hi there, it's Adam Grant from Ted's Rethinking Podcast, and this episode is brought to you by ServiceNow. I get to spend my days studying how people think and what it actually takes to change our minds.

5:41It's work I find deeply meaningful. But even in meaningful work, there's still busy work. The admin, the repetitive processes, the invisible load that pulls attention away from what really matters. That's where ServiceNow's AI specialists come in. They don't just tell you what you should do about your busy work. They actually do it. Start to finish. Cases closed. Requests handled. No extra work for you. To learn how to put AI to work for people, visit servicenow.com.

6:13And now, Barry Sonnenfeld takes the TED stage. I've directed four films starring Will Smith. Three of them were the first three Men in Black movies. and in spite of them making about$2 billion at the box office, Will Smith never really thought I had a clue. He wanted to take me to his old high school, point to me and say, if this man can be a successful film director on big budget films, anyone can. The truth is, for all of you here, if I could be a successful director on big budget films, anyone can. So I'd like to share with you nine thoughts I have that will help you in your future endeavors.

7:02And the first one is going to be a little disappointing to some of you, which is there is no upside to optimism. Okay, let me explain that. Every time I get off an airplane, I view it as a failed suicide attempt. That is where embracing pessimism comes in. You see, as soon as I buckle in, I turn to Sweetie, my wife, and I say, this plane is going to crash. Now I can relax because one of two things happen. Either the plane starts nosediving towards Earth, at which point I get to elbow Sweetie and gloat, was I right or what? or the plane lands successfully and we live. Win-win. So always under-promise and over-deliver.

7:58Okay, thank you, thank you, thank you. Okay, number two. Number two is never let anyone know you're working on a comedy. Now, this may be true specifically for film directors, but it's kind of also true for telling a joke. Okay, you never want anyone to be funny. If the wardrobe person thinks it's funny, the costumes are going to be too colorful. If your cinematographer thinks you're working on a comedy, the lighting will be too bright. If the composer composes for comedy, you're going to have slide whistles and triangles. And worst of all is if the actors think they're working on a comedy. You only want the actors to play the reality of the scene, and you want the audience to find the comedy.

8:52Never, ever let your actors be funny. Okay, number three, be punctual. I was a senior in high school when I asked my overbearing mother if I could attend a concert at Madison Square Garden with my girlfriend. The fact that I was 17 years old and needed parental permission is another story for another TED Talk. Anyway, sweetie says, sorry, not sweetie. Oh, my God, was that a Freudian thing? I don't think it was. No, it was. It was, sweetie, I love you so much, and you're not my mother. Okay, let's continue. So, in any case, my mother says, my mother says, you can go as long as you're home by 2 a.m.

9:41At 2.20 a.m., Jimi Hendrix and his band of gypsies take the stage. As they are warming up in front of 19 ,600 people, the following announcement echoes throughout Madison Square Garden. Barry Sonnenfeld, call your mother. Now, I know the only reason I'm being paid is because my father has died. He hasn't. My father has died, and I will spend the rest of my life living as an aging virgin with my mother. Okay. Mom already threatened to commit suicide if I attended sleepaway school. You guys call that college. Okay. So I find a payphone. I call mom. Who died? I thought you did. You were supposed to be home at 2 and it's 2.20.

10:42But mom, didn't they tell you the concert was still going on? Well, they did, but they couldn't confirm you were there. Okay, so Jimmy, a tad annoyed by the PA announcement, walks off stage never to return. eight months later he was dead and i blame my mother so let's talk about punctuality as far as i'm concerned being early is being on time being on time is actually late and late gets you paged at medicine square garden okay let's go to the next one, which is number four, which is don't work your way up the ladder. I was a film school student, and I realized I was a pretty good cinematographer, so I decided that's what I would be.

11:38When I got out of college, I bought a used 16-millimeter camera so I could call myself a cameraman without feeling like a dilettante. Six months later, I meet Joel Cohen, 50 % of the Cohen brothers at a Christmas party. Joel tells me he and his brother Ethan have written a script called Blood Simple, and they're going to shoot a trailer as if the movie was already made. And they're going to use this trailer to raise money from investing groups to then make their film. So I tell Joel, I have a camera. He tells me I'm hired. And a year later, we find ourselves in Austin, Texas, in production. The first day of filming on Blood Simple was the first day that Joel, Ethan, or I had ever been on a movie set.

12:33Don't work your way up. Okay, number five. This one's going to get to the Rob Reiner of it all, which is let it be their decision. I was the cinematographer on When Harry met Sally for Rob, and we were shooting a night scene in Lower Manhattan with Billy Crystal, Meg Ryan, Bruno Kirby, and Carrie Fisher. So they came to the set, which was on West Broadway. They rehearsed the scene while reading from the script as they walked down West Broadway and then went back into hair and makeup while I lit the scene. I told Rob we were ready. The actors came back now knowing their lines, walking much faster, and they walk 50 feet beyond where I'm lit.

13:20I say to Rob, can you slow down their walk so they can stop where they did during rehearsal? Rob says, you know what, Bear? I don't want them to worry about anything but performance. Can you light it so they can stop anywhere? So I say, sure, give me 14 minutes. Now here's something else you should learn. Never give estimates in round numbers. By saying 14, 11, 17, or any other arcane number, you really sound like you know what you're talking about. So I lit another 67 feet. See where I went with that? 67 feet, told Rob, we're ready. And Rob says, well, will it still look pretty bare? Will it still look beautiful?

14:11I said, well, it won't look as beautiful, but now they can stop wherever they want. Rob says, we don't want not beautiful. We want beautiful. Where do they have to stop where it will look beautiful? Back where they stopped during rehearsal. Rob calls the actors over, says, guys, stop where you did during rehearsal. Slow down your walk. At that moment, I learned something. I let it be Rob's decision to get what I wanted. So later that night, I'm shooting Meg Ryan's close-up. Meg was great fun to work with, but she didn't always hit her mark. So tonight, with this newfound information, I said to Meg, Hey, Meg, it doesn't matter where you stop, but if you land right here, you look gorgeous.

15:04She hit her mark every time. So let it be their decision. Okay, here's an easy one, number six, which is never stand on the end of a group photo. You've got two things working against you. First of all, the physics of a wide-angle lens on most cameras makes anyone on the edge of frame sort of seem wide. And second of all, you're easy to crop out of the photo. So you always want to stay in the center where the important person is. Okay, that's an easy one. Number seven, which is, oh, this is a good one. It's called Out Juvenile, a Screaming Bully. Okay, the first movie I directed was produced by the famous Scott Rudin.

15:51Scott was a brilliant producer, but a legendary screamer and bully. So this is how I tamed the beast. Okay, whenever I was in Scott's office on both Adams Family and Adams Family Values, and he would scream at me, I would remove the pillows and bolsters from his couch. I would build myself a fort. I would climb into the fort, and I would say, I can't hear you. I'm in the fort. Scott would scream, get out of the goddamn fort, Sonnenfeld. I don't have a lot of time. Sorry, Scott. I'm still in the fort, and I can't hear you screaming. Did you say something? Eventually, Scott would give in, apologize.

16:44I would leave the fortress. But here's the thing. Never once, over two movies, did he invade the sanctity of the fort.

16:59Never once did he lift up a pillow and say, schmuck, there is no fort. So really go for the juvenile. Okay, we're almost done, I promise. Number eight is be willing to kill your darlings. I was the director of Get Shorty, and the budget for Get Shorty was$30 ,250 ,000. The head of the studio, Mike Marker, said,$30 million, not a penny more. I said, okay, we'll lose the night scene with Gene Hackman. It takes place over two nights. It costs$250 ,000, and it doesn't move the plot forward, so it's easy to get rid of. Mike said, you can't lose that scene. It's my favorite scene in the movie. By the way, whenever you want to lose the scene, it's always some executive's favorite scene in the movie.

17:48So I said, Mike, you have no choice. We've got to come in at$30 million, and losing this scene puts us at$30 million. Mike says, don't tell me I have no choice. I'm the head of the studio. What's it going to cost to put that scene back in? $250 ,000. You got it. Okay, that's another example, by the way, of let it be their decision. And finally, and most important, always carry a photo of how you like your steak prepared.

18:25now so here's what you do you order a steak the waiter says how would you like it prepared and you say what does your restaurant call this the waiter looks at it and says oh that's our medium rare plus you say i would like a medium rare plus new york strip please never ever ever ever say cook it like this because that's giving the chef a line reading and they don't like it in fact sweetie and i got kicked out of the sage creek grill in custer south dakota but that's another story for another ted talk so in conclusion i would say uh you now have nine pieces of information that will help you become a successful film director on big budget films.

19:17Thank you very much.

19:25Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you.

19:34With no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One Bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One. If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep, even on weekends, it's pretty much all he talks about in a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See CapitalOne.com slash bank. Capital One N.A. member FDIC. Hi there, it's Adam Grant from Ted's Rethinking Podcast, and this episode is brought to you by ServiceNow. I get to spend my days studying how people think and what it actually takes to change our minds.

20:15It's work I find deeply meaningful. But even in meaningful work, there's still busy work. The admin, the repetitive processes, the invisible load that pulls attention away from what really matters. That's where ServiceNow's AI specialists come in. They don't just tell you what you should do about your busy work. They actually do it. Start to finish. Cases closed. Requests handled. No extra work for you. To learn how to put AI to work for people, visit servicenow.com.

20:48That was Barry Sonnenfeld talking at TED 2025. Barry's talk reminds me of how absolutely charming advice can be when it's delivered alongside some good, old-fashioned, self-deprecating humor. There are lessons to be learned from the advice he's giving, but there's also a big lesson on how to deliver your message in a charismatic and surprising way. I have three questions for you following this talk. Which lesson made you laugh the most? Which lesson resonated with you the most? And which lesson are you going to try to implement in the future? Maybe there's some overlap. What made you laugh probably felt most resonant, and therefore you're going to follow that advice.

21:29But for me, I was pleasantly surprised to find that I identified with all sorts of different things in this talk. His story about the fort, standing up to the bully, that really made me laugh. But I most recognized myself in the lesson about punctuality. As someone who is always fashionably late, I often need to be reminded that being early is on time and being on time is late. But the lesson I'm most likely to put into practice? Not standing on the end of a group photo. Now that is good advice. That's it for today. TED Business is part of the TED Audio Collective. This episode was produced by Hannah Kingsley-Ma, edited by Alejandra Salazar, and fact-checked by Julia Dickerson.

22:17Special thanks to Maria Ladias, Farah DeGrange, Daniela Ballarezzo, Tansika Sangmanibang, and Roxanne Hilash. I'm Madupa Akinola. Thanks for listening.

22:53assist with your banking needs. Yep, even on weekends, it's pretty much all he talks about, in a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See CapitalOne.com slash bank. Capital One N.A. Member FDIC. Hi there, it's Adam Grant from Ted's Rethinking Podcast, and this episode is brought to you by ServiceNow. I get to spend my days studying how people think and what it actually takes to change our minds. It's work I find deeply meaningful. But even in meaningful work, there's still busy work. The admin, the repetitive processes, the invisible load that pulls attention away from what really matters.

23:30That's where ServiceNow's AI specialists come in. They don't just tell you what you should do about your busy work. They actually do it. Start to finish, cases closed, requests handled, no extra work for you. To learn how to put AI to work for people, visit servicenow.com.