The counterintuitive secret of leadership | Jessica Kriegel

0:00Jessica Kriegel: This episode is brought to you by Capital One. Capital One's tech team isn't just talking about multi-agentic AI. They already deployed one. It's called Chat Concierge and it's simplifying car shopping. Using self-reflection and layered reasoning with live API checks, it doesn't just help buyers find a car they love. It helps schedule a test drive, get pre-approved for financing, and estimate trade-in value. Advanced, intuitive, and deployed. That's how they stack. That's technology at Capital One. Add a little curiosity into your routine with TED Talks Daily, the podcast that brings you a new TED Talk every weekday.

0:36Jessica Kriegel: In less than 15 minutes a day, you'll go beyond the headlines and learn about the big ideas shaping your future. Coming up, how AI will change the way we communicate, how to be a better leader, and more. Listen to TED Talks Daily wherever you get your podcasts.

0:56This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn. Running a small business means every hire matters. A bad hire can cost you time, money, and momentum. A good hire, they can help grow your business. But finding great talent isn't easy, especially when you don't have the time or resources to sift through piles of resumes to find the right fit. That's why LinkedIn built HiringPro, your new hiring partner that screens candidates for you. so instead of sorting through applications, you can spend your time talking to candidates who are actually a good fit. With Hiring Pro, you can hire with confidence knowing you're getting the best talent for your business.

1:38In fact, according to LinkedIn, those hiring with LinkedIn are 24 % less likely to need to reopen a role within 12 months compared to the leading competitor. Join the 2.7 million small businesses using LinkedIn to hire. Get started by posting your job for free at linkedin.com slash tedbiz, spelled B-I-Z. Terms and conditions apply. For my 50th birthday, a few of my friends got together and threw me a very special birthday dinner. I mean, they just showered me with love. I remember looking around and seeing all of their faces and just feeling so happy to see each and every one of them and overwhelmed by how much they meant to me.

2:24And I wanted to express that to them, show some gesture of kindness and love in return. I wanted to send them all little gifts, little notes. But then time got the best of me and life got away from me. Week after week, I'd say, I'll do it this weekend. But did I? Nope. I kept beating myself up. Finally, I talked to my therapist about it. She was like, what if you just let it go? They had a blast. You had a blast. They know how grateful you are. She was asking me to surrender my vision of how I wanted things to be in a perfect world. In the real world, I didn't have time to send those notes, and my friends already knew how much they meant to me.

3:07What I learned? The act of surrender. It's more powerful than you might think.

3:17I'm Madhu Bakanola. This is Ted Business, a podcast from Ted. Our speaker today, workplace culture expert Jessica Kriegel, says that surrendering can be a counterintuitive strategy for productive leadership. In this talk, she explains how experimenting with loosening the reins can lead to a more adaptive workplace culture. Then after the talk, I'm presenting you with a challenge. But first, a quick break.

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6:17And now, Jessica Kriegel takes the TED stage.

6:23Jessica Kriegel: Every time I give one of these talks, I have a routine. I start by showing up early and I do the sound check, I get the mic, and then I go in the halls and I walk around and I look at the audience because I want to get a sense of the vibe. And really where my mind starts to go is I prepare. I get backstage, I sit down, and I start to think about all the things that I wish were a little bit different. The things that would be better if they were my way. So I wish the room was a little bit cooler. I wish the stage was a little bit bigger. I wish that the audience didn't look so hungover. No, you guys look great, not you.

7:01Jessica Kriegel: Sometimes, though, they look hungover, and I get worried. And I start focusing on all of the things that I can't control because ultimately I want to do a good job. You know, I'm a keynote speaker, and I've been hired to show up and perform and drive results, and I'm worried that all these things might prevent me from doing that. And for leaders, you can probably relate, because this is actually a very natural coping mechanism to being under pressure. You as a leader have to drive results. It is harder than it ever has been to get results right now. You have increasing shareholder expectations at the same time as employee expectations are increasing.

7:38Jessica Kriegel: The rapid pace of change, the workforce generally is shifting so quickly, and yet you as a leader, you still got to get those results. And so leaders tend to focus on what it is that they have to do to make it work. And they think about what they have to manage, every detail that they need to adjust, the processes and really the people, what they need to do differently. But the reality is control is an illusion. You can't control anything outside of yourself. The only thing you can control is the way that you show up. So what if instead of trying to force the world to fit into the way that you would like it to be, we tried something radical and unconventional?

8:19Jessica Kriegel: We tried surrender. Now, surrender can feel like a touchy-feely word, especially when we're talking about leaders driving results. But let me demonstrate surrender right now in this talk, okay? I am going to surrender. I am going to stop talking and be quiet until someone says now. Now? Oh, that was fast. Well, thank you. It was so much easier than I thought it was going to be, and that's kind of the point of surrender. I was thinking, you guys might take 30 seconds and make me stand here quietly, and it's uncomfortable to surrender. That's part of the point. That's part of why it's so hard to surrender.

8:55Jessica Kriegel: But what happened in that moment? I stepped back, and you, sir, you stepped in, and a new dynamic was created, and we did something different, and we co-created this moment together. Now, the problem with the control mindset is that it doesn't drive results because it chokes adaptability. And adaptive cultures win, not control cultures. I studied this with Stanford Graduate Business School a couple years ago. We looked at 243 companies. We looked at their purpose and their strategy, their culture, and obviously their results. And we wanted to know which kinds of companies won. And the companies that outperformed all other types were the adaptive companies.

9:38Jessica Kriegel: They outperformed control companies by three times. Over the course of three years, their revenue growth was significantly higher. So how do you create an adaptive culture? That is the question. Well, it's not by telling everyone that we're going to be adaptive now and controlling the adaptability of the room, right? The way that you create an adaptive culture is by understanding your role in the co-creation of it. So to surrender is not passive. It is not giving up. It is a radical acceptance of what you need to do in that moment that you actually have control of. Now, we know that results come from actions.

10:19Jessica Kriegel: People are trying to drive results by focusing on the actions that people are taking, which is that control mentality. But most leaders, they think that if they want to change those actions, they have to implement a bunch of processes and procedures and maybe new workflows, right? Have a bunch of meetings, do KPIs and dashboards. And when you take that approach, you are in that control mindset. And what I found in 20 years of consulting is that people don't change because you implemented new processes. People will act in alignment with what they believe. And so if you want to change their behavior, you have to shift what it is that they believe.

10:57Jessica Kriegel: And once again, I can't control your beliefs, right? I can't say, okay, you're now going to be comfortable with risk-taking. Thank you. That doesn't happen. But what I can do is I can create an experience, which I control, that will shift your belief. And that belief will have you then proactively choose to take a new action, which will drive a result. So what does it look like in action? I will give you an example. From years ago, I was hired to be the CHRO, the head of HR for a technology company. And I had just had this personal moment of transformation in which I was embracing surrender in life, and I wanted to try it at work.

11:35Jessica Kriegel: And so what happened was I got this new job. I went to my first board meeting. I felt very special being there. And the board let us know that we had to lay off 20 % of the workforce and I was in charge. Surrender. So I show up and I'm trying to figure out what to do. And let me tell you how layoffs typically go in corporate America. The executives know that it's happening months before anyone else and they control the process. They control the narrative. They get into rooms and they meet and they discuss who are we going to lay off and how many people and how is that going to affect the budget and how are we going to control the narrative?

12:11Jessica Kriegel: And then when are we going to announce it? And then they drop the axe and then they deal with the fallout. But I wanted to surrender. And so I asked myself what surrender would look like in that moment, not controlling everyone else, but making a choice about the experience that I could create. And so I showed up the next day at work, day after the board meeting, and I gathered everyone together and I said, I've just been told that we need to lay off 20 % of the workforce. And I don't know who yet. And I don't know when exactly, but we're going to be figuring that out and I'm going to let you know every step of the way.

12:44Jessica Kriegel: That was an experience that I created in that moment that shifted the beliefs of the people that worked on that team. Now, some of the people's beliefs that shifted were, I got to go get a job, right? They started applying for jobs and then they left. Other people though, were really grateful for the transparency and it was something that they hadn't experienced before. And so they said, you know what? I want to stay here and work with someone who's going to tell me the truth and walk through the front door. You can't mismanage the truth. And you know what happened after the next couple of months as we watched people leave the organization, we realized we didn't even have to do layoffs because the company had right-sized itself.

13:24Jessica Kriegel: And the people who left, they left of their own accord on their own terms. And the people who stayed, they were with us. They were ready to adapt to the business circumstances because they knew that we had them. Here's another example. This was from one of our clients. It was Ocean Spray. This was years ago. They had multiple plants and one plant was in Kenosha, Wisconsin, and it was the worst performing plant in the entire company. So they hired a new guy named Tim to come in. He was the plant manager and his job was to turn it around. And Tim was the surrendered leader. So he was not interested in the command and control approach and he showed up and he was looking at, I mean, they had the highest costs in the system.

14:05Jessica Kriegel: They had high injury rates. They had hostile union relations. And Tim came in and he said, what can I do to change the situation? He didn't come in. A lot of plant managers would come in and they would start talking about what you guys need to do differently. You guys have to act right. If we don't turn this around, we're going to have to close the plant. We're going to implement a bunch of new processes and procedures. We're going to have meetings and make sure that you're on track, right? That's the command and control approach. But Tim surrendered. And he asked himself, what are the beliefs that people have at this plant that need to shift?

14:38Jessica Kriegel: And the belief that he identified was largely resentment. I mean, there was distrust between the employees and the leaders. And he could understand why. Because when the plant workers would show up in the morning, they would walk past all of the empty parking spaces that were reserved for managers that weren't even there yet because they don't show up until 9 a.m. when the office day started. So imagine that experience that's being created for those plant workers. So Tim gets everyone outside and he says, come on everyone, we have a meeting outside, goes in the parking lot, literally brings a chainsaw and chainsaws down every single reserved for manager parking sign.

15:21Jessica Kriegel: And then he looked at them and he said, park wherever you want. Let's go back to work. that was a powerful chainsaw moment of surrender, right? And what it did was it shifted the beliefs. There was more work to be done, obviously, but the belief began to shift in which people said, okay, this is different. These leaders, they have, they do not, I can trust them, right? I can trust this guy. Let me see what I can do to adapt, to turn this around. They ended up reducing injuries by 75%. Their costs went down. They went from the worst, almost shutting down plant to the number one plant in the entire ocean spray ecosystem because Tim surrendered.

16:01Jessica Kriegel: He didn't show up and say, what do you guys got to do differently? How do I wish it was different than the way that it was? Now think of all the energy that you spend wishing things were different, wishing that they were your way so that you can be more comfortable. And there are a lot of people who don't like the word surrender because it can feel kind of weak, right? Especially military people, it conjures up images of waving the white flag and giving up. But I'm not suggesting that you give up. I'm suggesting that you give up the illusion of control, which you never really had in the first place.

16:32Jessica Kriegel: And you take all of that energy that you're spending in that and you point it towards mastering yourself, the way you respond, the way you show up, especially as a leader, when you are responsible for creating experiences that will shape the beliefs of those around you. Now, the Navy SEALs have a saying, which is control the controllables. But there is a corollary. The hidden message within that is also, and stop trying to control the uncontrollables. So the Navy SEALs know they can't control what their brother does. They can't control what the orders are that they've been given. They can't control if the equipment malfunctions.

17:09Jessica Kriegel: They can't control what the enemy's doing. And when the chopper is going down in enemy territory, they're not going down thinking, well, I wish it was different. Wait, hold on. We shouldn't be here, right? They are focused on what do I need to do to adapt in this moment and respond and show up. They are experts in surrender. So my invitation to you is to experiment with surrender, letting go the illusion of control and focus on the experiences that you're creating that will shift and shape the beliefs of those around you that you're there to influence and to support that will ultimately allow them to make different choices about the actions that they want to take because they've got free will.

17:50Jessica Kriegel: You can't control them. I understand for leaders it's hard to understand because you've been given the title of manager and director and so it feels like it's my job to tell everyone what to do, but ultimately they're only going to do it if they believe in it. And that is how you drive results within teams of organizations. So try surrender. It is uncomfortable sometimes and it It can feel like a risk, but every great breakthrough came when someone was willing to take a risk. So take a risk today, surrender to lead. And once more, as I finish this talk, I'm going to hand it over to you. What will you do with it?

18:30Jessica Kriegel: This episode is brought to you by Walmart Business. The best leaders might tell you the work that moves an organization forward doesn't happen in spreadsheets or supply chain emails. It happens when you have the space to think big. That's the idea behind Walmart Business. It's built to take the friction out of running an organization so your team isn't losing hours to procurement logistics when they could just be focused on the problems that actually matter. With an ever-expanding business assortment, everyday low prices, and fast, reliable shipping, Walmart Business keeps your operations running smoothly.

19:04Jessica Kriegel: Shop online, in-store, or through the Walmart Business app, however works best for you. Simpler operations, smarter spending. It's Walmart built for your business. Sign up for a free Walmart business account at business.walmart.com.

19:23Jessica Kriegel: This episode is brought to you by Capital One. Capital One's tech team isn't just talking about multi-agentic AI. They already deployed one. It's called Chat Concierge and it's simplifying car shopping. Using self-reflection and layered reasoning with live API checks, It doesn't just help buyers find a car they love. It helps schedule a test drive, get pre-approved for financing, and estimate trade-in value. Advanced, intuitive, and deployed. That's how they stack. That's technology at Capital One. There are many podcasts you can turn to for work advice, but on our show, Fixable, we help real people just like you tackle real workplace challenges fast.

20:01Jessica Kriegel: I'm CEO and bestselling author, Anne Morris. And I'm Harvard Business School professor, Frances Fry. And we are the hosts of the TED podcast, Fixable. Whether you're lacking confidence at your new job, feeling burned out, or struggling to lead your team through a big change, we won't shy away from any problem. We bring our clear thinking, honest opinions, and expertise to solve your toughest workplace issues through practical solutions. Hear new episodes of Fixable every Monday, wherever you get your podcasts.

20:34That was Jessica Kriegel at TEDxSouthlake. I love that Jessica makes the case that surrendering isn't necessarily passive. We all know control is an illusion, and it's hard to give that illusion up. But being able to do that shows a remarkable amount of self-discipline and, again, strength. So I'm going to ask you right now to challenge yourself. What are two things that you need to surrender? Is there something in your personal life you can surrender? Is there something in your professional life you can surrender? For me, in addition to writing all those thank you notes, it's responding to emails.

21:12I just can't keep up with my email. It's overflowing at this point. But I'm really clear with everyone who emails me. Listen, I'm behind. I might not see this. Don't be afraid to contact me here, here, and here, depending on what kind of information you're looking for. This disclaimer also signals that I don't expect everyone to respond to me right away either. So yes, I've surrendered control over my inbox, and you know what? It feels good to let some of that go. Now it's your turn. What can you let go of?

21:51That's it for today. TED Business is part of the TED Audio Collective. This episode was produced by Hannah Kingsley Ma, edited by Alejandra Salazar, and fact-checked by Julia Dickerson. Special thanks to Maria Ladias, Farrah DeGrunge, Daniela Ballarezzo, Tansika Sangmanivang, and Roxanne Heilash. I'm Madhu Bakanola. Thanks for listening.

22:18Hey, Yetis. This is Nick and Jack from the Best One Yet podcast.

22:21Jessica Kriegel: Now, the last company we worked at, they used Paylosti and everything just worked. It wasn't until launching our own media business, this show, that we realized how rare that is. Because Paylocity is one delicious burrito of operational needs. They roll up HR, finance, and IT seamlessly into one delicious bite. When everything wraps together like that all at once, your workforce, your tech stack, your business, you don't need more tools. You don't even need cilantro. You need one solution. And that is why Paylocity built a single platform to connect HR, finance, and IT with AI-driven insights and automated workflows that simplify the complex and power of what's next.

22:55Jessica Kriegel: Or as we call it, a delicious operational burrito. Yes, we do. experience a one place for all your HCM needs, besties. So start now at paylocity.com slash one, paylocity.com slash O-N-E. With no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One. If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep, even on weekends, it's pretty much all he talks about in a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply.

23:33Jessica Kriegel: See CapitalOne.com slash bank. Capital One N.A. Member FDIC.