Unlocking Your Power at Work: How to build your financial power with Mrs. Dow Jones

0:00With no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One. If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep, even on weekends, it's pretty much all he talks about. In a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See CapitalOne.com slash bank. Capital One N.A. Member FDIC.

0:33This episode is sponsored by Perplexity AI. How much of your workday actually goes toward making decisions? Now, how much goes towards just finding the information you need to make them? If you run an e-commerce business, your mornings probably start by bouncing between platforms, digging for data, and trying to figure out how it all fits together. That's why I'm excited to tell you about Perplexity Computer. It connects you to the tools you already use, giving you a complete picture of your business. Before you even wake up, it can send your team daily performance reports, pulling revenue, ad spend, margin, inventory, and more.

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2:10If you listen to Ted Business for conversations about leadership, navigating change, and unlocking innovation, I have another show for your rotation. It's called Founders Mentality, the CEO Sessions. It gets into the real decisions behind some of today's leading executives and companies. Not just what a CEO should do, but who a CEO has to become to do it. In their recent episode with Laura Burrow, Group CEO of The Economist Group, you hear how she walked into a divided organization and a transformation project that had already cost the company millions and made the call to scrap it. Instead, she pushed for a new approach, one that could fund itself and bring the business back together.

3:00She and host Jimmy Allen break down that choice, how customer data reshaped the company's priorities, and how The Economist is thinking about transformation now in the age of AI. Follow Founders Mentality, the CEO sessions from Bain & Company, wherever you get your podcasts. Hey listeners, we're dropping another playlist this month, and this one is a new series from our friends over at Fixable. It's all about how to unlock your power at work. And if you're looking over your shoulder and thinking, power? Me? Well then yeah, this series is exactly for you. Anne, Frances, and their esteemed panel of guests talk through all the ways you might be underestimating your own power.

3:47And you may be surprised at what they have to say. This playlist is a primer on how to get what you want, how to feel financially empowered, and how to empower others. I'm excited for you to listen. Anne and Frances are going to take it from here.

4:08Haley Sacks: Money and freedom and power have a lot to do with just having a say in your life. And I think that we can all agree that when we have money, we have options. We have the power to say no. We have the power to walk away from situations that do not serve us. We hate our boss or we're in a bad relationship. Just any of these things that can really hold us back. We have the power to have another option. And, you know, people always say money doesn't buy happiness. But look, money never made anyone less happy.

4:48Hello, everyone. Welcome to Fixable, a show where we take problems at work that feel unfixable and prove that they're not. I'm Anne Morris. And I'm Frances Frey. We are back today with another episode in our Unlocking Your Power at Work series. And today we're talking about financial power. In this era of late-stage capitalism that we're all living through, money shapes our experience of power in profound ways. and yet it's still one of the most under-discussed and most awkwardly discussed topics in our lives. Yeah, you know, money is such a huge variable in everyone's lives, but we don't learn it in school.

5:27We don't discuss it with family. We don't really even discuss it with friends. Oh my God. I feel like you and I just stumbled towards financial competence on our way to adulthood. And I think like many folks, There's a lot of shame and baggage that pops up and we have to drag with us as we go. You know, I'm afraid that competence is an overstatement. And as an operations professor, the waste, like the just not using resources correctly in retrospect and the small things that could have made a big difference. So I, on behalf of all of the people I know who are smart about everything but money, I am so excited for this episode.

6:15Yes, I am too. Our guest today is working to change all of these dynamics by making financial empowerment feel accessible, entertaining, even cool. Today we're talking to the fabulous Haley Sachs, better known as Mrs. Dow Jones. She's host of the podcast Financial Tea. She's also now a bestselling author. The Wall Street Journal has called her the financial guru millennials listen to. I think we should all listen to her. I agree totally. The jumping off point for her work is that learning how to earn and manage money is about power. Power to make choices, to walk away from a terrible boss, to negotiate a comp package that's worthy of you.

7:02In her new book, Future Rich Person, The New Rules for Building Wealth, she writes that money is power, freedom, and completely necessary for the life you want to live. And I would add to that, understanding of money is. So much of our financial power gets built and flexed in the workplace, which is why we wanted to talk to her today. She's also smart, funny, and on a mission, which is our favorite combination of traits. Let's bring her in.

7:33Haley Sacks: Haley Sachs, welcome to Fixable. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here. I want to start in maybe an obvious place by acknowledging that naming dogs is an underrated skill and you have a dog with a truly excellent name. So will you talk to us about your dog naming journey? Yes. So I think we should preface this by saying that my dog's name is Mystery. He is a black miniature poodle. and I have breaking news for you, Anne, which is that I am getting another dog. Stop it. Yes. And drumroll, please. This is breaking news. What is the name going to be? Secret. Secret. I'm going to have secret and I'm going to have mystery.

8:24Haley Sacks: Same little poodle. No, this one's going to be bigger. It's going to be black poodle, but I'm going to get a regular size. Oh. that's a real commitment i know maybe i will get many but my my boyfriend really would like a bigger dog but i i like the many but all that i care about is to have the fun name yeah but it is hard when you land the plane so hard with your dog name like as i did with mystery i think we can all agree outstanding like 10 out of 10 all right so we're gonna talk we're gonna talk about money on this show and we're gonna get tactical in a few minutes but i want to start with the tension at the heart of your work, Haley, which is that here in America, as a people, we are obsessed with money.

9:07Yep. And yet most of us are still reluctant to talk about it honestly or intentionally develop the skills to master it. We are both obsessed and distracted and highly avoidant at the same time. So how do you make sense of this?

9:26Haley Sacks: Money is the thing that people least like to talk about behind sex and death. And it has so much shame tied to it, which then keeps us stuck even more because people don't crowdsource things, especially women. We don't ask our friends about, you know, what they're paying for this or have you asked for a raise or what are we doing for retirement? Every other thing in your life from vacation to where do you want to live to like, you know, what should I have for lunch today? You ask for advice, but with money, we're so closeted about it because we're never taught and it makes us feel so anxious. And so, so much of the work that I do is democratizing the information and bringing lightheartedness and humor and sort of taking the air out of it because it's not hard.

10:27Haley Sacks: That was the biggest thing that I realized on my financial journey is like, wow, I've really been catfish. Like I need about sixth grade math and some automation and I could, you know, become a millionaire. And it's the same, you know, for anyone. The conversation we're having today is part of a series we're doing on power and influence. Love. And one of the things that I love about your message is you make the link between money and power and freedom very explicit. So connect these dots for people listening. Well, I mean, I think money and freedom and power have a lot to do with just having a say in your life.

11:07Haley Sacks: And I think that we can all agree that when we have money, we have options. We have the power to say no. We have the power to walk away from situations that do not serve us. You know, if we hate our boss or we're in a bad relationship, just any of these things that can really hold us back. We have the power to have another option. And, you know, people always say money doesn't buy happiness. But look, money never made anyone less happy. And you can buy therapy. You can, you know, improve your mental health, like things like that, that really do add to your quality of life. And so I think especially as women, too, one of the reasons it's so important for me for women to have money is just so that we can have that choice.

11:50Haley Sacks: Like we are really the first generations of women who have control over our lives and the power to choose and the power to, you know, take a paintbrush and make this canvas of our lives, whatever we want it to be. We couldn't have our own credit card until 1974. It's still an astonishing fact. We couldn't get our own business loans till the 80s, you know. And so all of this economic opportunity that we have now is really new. And I really believe deeply that like we owe it to our grandmothers to take advantage, to not put up with bullshit, to take control of our finances and to live lives on our own terms.

12:30Haley Sacks: I feel really strongly about that. A hundred percent. But I mean, but it is the essence of your point, which is that no money doesn't buy you happiness, but it does give you more options on this drop down menu of how you can respond to the circumstances of your life. And more money gives you a longer drop down menu. Yeah. The research is also quite clear in the money is positively correlated with happiness, just not as high as you would think. It like stops at like one hundred thousand dollars or something like that. And then anything over that, it's it becomes uncorrelated. Yeah. And I think that it's like you can get the disease the other way where it's like you think that money is the most important thing.

13:10Haley Sacks: And so then you over index that way. And it's like, you know, I really believe in that financial wellness, physical wellness and emotional wellness are sort of like our three pillars of, you know, well-being that we need to work on and maintain. But they have to all be in balance. You can't over index on one of them. And you might not have all of them all at once, but the same way that, you know, you commit to our physical health. We have doctors to help us with our emotional health. We have therapists, but you need someone with your money, too, to help guide you. Financial stress, if you can eliminate that, is going to have a massive impact on your well-being.

13:49Haley Sacks: I think it is less about what money can buy and more about the freedom of having your time and your autonomy and security. And, you know, you can have experiences with people you love. And with Gen Z and millennials, we're seeing so much that really what they value is just time. We're going to get tactical now. Frances, any other questions or comments before we move on? talking about this, and I know so many smart people who are smart about everything but money. If I can bifurcate people, it's those that don't have very much of it and they just think it's hopeless. So then and then those that have a lot of it, it's almost as if if they speak about it, it might evaporate.

14:33It's just got this weird stigmas that not the right word. It's got this weird mystique about it.

14:40Haley Sacks: You know, it's so interesting, too, is. when you think about generational wealth, people can inherit money, but they can't inherit financial literacy. I think that we have definitely created a generation of people who, they feel smart enough to learn AI and to, you know, get in the weeds in politics and health and all this stuff, but they somehow believe that they are, that they're like missing this chip. And why I bring up the generational wealth thing And this idea of not inheriting financial literacy is something that I find really equalizing and that really empowered me was, you know, one day I was walking and I was like, wait, so you're telling me that every person who's really good with money was born the exact same as I was, not knowing anything about it?

15:32Haley Sacks: And the only difference between me and them is that they learned? Okay, so I can learn. You know, it's so much about just switching your mindset and stopping to realize that no one has more going on than you. It's not like they, you know, were born with some sort of Warren Buffett gene that you don't have. you are all starting from zero. And it's really, I think, about finding the right teacher who can equalize it for you and teach it to you, but also make it really clear that it's not hard and take the air out of it a little bit and make it just seem something that you can be a little bit more non-emotional towards.

16:11I love your point that this is not hard to learn. Just to underline this, you need a sixth grade level of math and just a willingness to open some of these closets that are scary in a lot of our lives. I love the story you tell about, you know, being a young person, you're pursuing this comedy career, you know, the great Lorne Michaels hires you, you're sitting with the HR team and they're asking you about your 401k and you're like, what the fuck? Which is the experience most of us have in that moment. That was definitely my 20 something reaction is like, well, let me just pick something. This is not that material and let's get back to what's interesting, which is I want to be an adult and figure this out.

16:50The difference is you went home and Googled like Roth IRA, which is not the response that most of us have. Like say we're persuaded, yes, this is about power and this is about taking control of my life and building the life of my dreams. And I'm walking around with these assumptions I inherited and my seven-year-old ideas about money. How do I even begin to empower myself? like coach our listeners to start this journey in addition to buying your book, which was terrific.

17:23Haley Sacks: I love that. Well, I will say that something really helped me when I started was finance books. So I believe in that. I think it's really helpful. It can be mine. It can be, you know, if you don't love me, just find one that you can get through. But like all you need is one and that will change everything for you. But, you know, and you hit on something, which is great, which is money mindset. So in the book, that's where we start because I've coached like tens of thousands of people. And what I noticed is I could teach you any hard financial lesson. Oh, open this emergency fund, this high-yield savings account.

18:01Haley Sacks: Here's how you invest, whatever. But it will go in one year, out the other. You will not absorb it if you don't figure out what your blocks are first. So, you know, we go to therapy and we talk about like, my ex got bangs. What does that mean about me? But we don't talk at all. But we don't bring up at all. Like, you know, why do I feel like I can't ask my friend for a Venmo, even though we went to dinner last week and I can't afford to pay for both of us and she never sent it to me. And now I have resentment towards her. Why is it that I feel so awkward advocating for myself with my finances?

18:38Haley Sacks: is. And so I think we have to first figure that out. And then the next step after this, and I will say something that should hopefully make your listeners feel calm because this made me feel really calm about money is I think when we start our financial journeys, which always makes me feel like I'm at Burning Man when I say journey, but it is a journey. Sometimes there's no other word. Yeah, there's odyssey. When we start our financial adventure, like let's first Next of all, we need to reclaim journey. We need to reclaim journey. I mean, part of what you're saying is like, this also isn't necessarily like a joyless, shameful pursuit, which is how a lot of us are experiencing this.

19:18Haley Sacks: Totally. And I felt like that too, where it was like, okay, if I'm going to be good with money, that means that I'm basically going over this bridge and everything fun and good in my life that I love, I'm going to have to say goodbye to. It's sort of like going on a diet or something where you're like - No more lattes, no more avocado toast. No more. No Birkin bags. No Birkins, no highlights, no manicure. Like, no, we could enjoy our lives now while also planning for the future. All it takes is just an understanding. So you start with your money mindset. The next thing that you do after that is you save a three to six month emergency fund in a high yield savings account.

19:54Haley Sacks: And then once you do that, you're going to pay off any high interest rate debt. And then once you're done with your high interest rate debt, you will focus on maxing out your tax advantaged account. So that means like investing in your IRA and your 401k and things like that. But I will say that while you're doing all of this, you can still get highlights. You can still enjoy your life. And that's because of the future rich person spending plan, which says that you are going to put, you know, 20 % of your income towards taking action and making those healthy financial moves, but you're still going to have 30 % of it to spend on your wants.

20:38Haley Sacks: And that can be whatever you want it to be. No shame in the game. As long as you are paying yourself first and putting money towards your future rich person, I do not care what you do with the rest of that money. But no way does becoming a future rich person mean that your life has to suck now.

21:23the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at goo.gle slash workspace with Gemini. That's goo.gle slash workspace with Gemini. With no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One. If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes

22:11Fixable is a podcast about work. So I want to push on some of your fantastic advice about how to build financial power in the workplace. Yes. In your book, Future Rich Person, you make the point that people need to create value first, then capture it in that order. This is advice Francis and I give to companies all the time when they think about pricing their products, too. So say more about this idea. You've observed a pattern where people sometimes reverse the two, but also particularly for high performing women, sometimes we're very good at creating it and we're not as skillful or strategic about capturing it.

22:51So give us some guidance on this one.

22:54Haley Sacks: So many people focus, especially women, we focus on cutting back, but there is a floor to how much you can cut, but there's no ceiling to how much you can make. And if there's one mindset shift that I would give to any person, it's to think about that because there's no ceiling to how much you can make. And it's so much easier, I think, to make more money to try and figure that out than to, you know, really cut back, which is just really hard. Frances, you you say this all the time. This is my we have a revenue problem, not a cost problem. Yes, a revenue problem, not a cost problem. That's so good.

23:30Now, I will say that that does permit one to be very sloppy about the cost side. I could use some of your some of your diligence. But you already gave me guidance there. I love 20 percent towards future you.

23:43Haley Sacks: You realize that you don't have to overdo it. Like it's mostly about consistency. It's not about a one time fix. What should I be thinking about in a salary negotiation or a job offer? you know, I think you make a beautiful point that it's just it's not just the salary number. Like there are all these other variables that have a huge impact on financial power. Talk us through that one. Yeah. So something I talk about in the book is about all the other levers that you can pull when you are negotiating besides just salary. So that could be your title. It could be another day working from home, which, as we all know, if you save on that commute.

24:24Haley Sacks: It gives you so much more time. It could be money to take courses. It could be, you know, there's so many different ways to get value besides money, but obviously we want money. I call, it's called BATNA, which is the best alternative to a negotiated agreement. And it's from this book from the seventies about workplace and negotiation, but it still hits. So what that means is say I go in and I ask for a 15 % raise or 20 % raise and they can't give it to me, but I'm doing a great job. What you should say is, okay, you can't give me that raise now, but can you do X, Y, or Z, those things that we talked about, a higher title?

25:09Haley Sacks: Will you pay for me to, you know, get this certification? Can I work from home this extra day? Like all these things. And then what you also have to say is, and what are the KPIs that I have to hit, the key performance indicators to then get that raise? And so, okay, you get the bat nut. Maybe you hit the thing in six months. If it's six months, they cannot give you more money, even if you've been there for a long time, you got to go. Because you need to be increasing your salary and you're not working for free. You don't own the company. We get so emotional about our workplaces, but at the end of the day, we have to put our own oxygen masks on first and keep it moving and don't fall victim to the sunk cost fallacy where you end up staying places too long, even though they aren't able to pay you correctly.

25:58I think this point is so important. It reinforces two observations of people in the workplace. And I do think there are demographic patterns here. But a lot of people have this conversation. They get up the courage to have the conversation, I would like a raise. And then when they get a no, they're not prepared for the next round of the conversation, which is, oh, here are the other things that I value that don't cost any money. Can I have those now instead? But then your last point is so critical, which is, okay, I understand. Not a great time. Tell me what I will have to do to get that raise.

26:37And a lot of organizations have not actually thought through that, you know. So when we are putting our head down and assuming that we're just going to get tapped on the shoulder and rewarded for our good work, you are assuming a level of competence in the organizational system. Exactly.

26:55Haley Sacks: You can't do that. That often isn't there. Like people aren't thinking about when you're going to get promoted and why and when. I mean, some organizations are, you know, are very good at this, but there's a huge spectrum. And the probability that you're sitting in an organization where people have been deeply thoughtful about your advancement is statistically low in our experience. And so to get out there and put some pressure, respectful pressure on the system, respectful pressure. Oh, I understand. Well, what will it take? And when can we have this conversation again? And let's put it on the calendar in six months.

27:27Let's see if I've met the requirements for a raise or if circumstances at this lovely organization have changed. And we see we see men who are willing to do that than women. And I understand the world we live in and your approach may have to change depending on demographically what you're bringing to the table. But but there are very skillful ways to have this conversation. And to your point there, there's a huge yield in terms of building financial power through work.

27:54Haley Sacks: I love that. And I also feel like people look at their resumes almost as like investment portfolios. And so they think just because they've invested years in this career that they should keep doubling down on this asset, even if it's no longer growing. And that's not the case. And I think the most expensive career move that we can make isn't not changing jobs. It's just spending another decade in the wrong one because you've already spent one decade there. I love that point, too. There is some wonderful research that was done by my colleague, Boris Greisberg, who found that when women develop skills, they're much more portable than when men develop skills.

28:34Because it's really fun. So here's the logic behind it. Men use the internal networks at the company to be good. And so when they go to another company, they don't have that network that they created. Women aren't as reliant on the internal networks at the company. They're often reliant on external networks. And so it's portable to the next location.

28:55Haley Sacks: What is that study? I want to like know more about it. It's called the portability of stars or something. I'm sure the book had a better title than that, but it's the portability of stars and highlight women's success. When you have a high performing woman and she goes to another company, much more likely to continue the success. High performing man goes to another company, much more likely to have diminished success. There you go.

29:45We may have to walk through some difficult moments along the way as we look at our own behavior, but we get the power to build the life we want to live. Yeah. If we are willing to walk through this fire.

30:04With no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One Bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One. If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep, even on weekends, it's pretty much all he talks about. In a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See CapitalOne.com slash bank. Capital One N.A. Member FDIC. State Fair food is getting smaller. And pricier. We'll have room for fried cookies. Okay, you never overspend on food.

30:41What's your deal? What's his deal? He went to Metro and got$450 in value on the new Samsung Galaxy A37 5G for free. And no activation fees. Free phone? Oh, sign me up. Get that more for your money feeling. Only on Metro by T-Mobile.

30:57Haley Sacks: Bring your number and activate$40 period plan. $450 based on device discount waived activation fee. Not available if with Metro or T-Mobile in the past 180 days. Hi there, it's Adam Grant from Ted's Rethinking Podcast. And this episode is brought to you by ServiceNow. I get to spend my days studying how people think and what it actually takes to change our minds. It's work I find deeply meaningful. But even in meaningful work, there's still busy work. The admin, the repetitive processes, the invisible load that pulls attention away from what really matters. That's where ServiceNow's AI specialists come in.

31:29They don't just tell you what you should do about your busy work. They actually do it. Start to finish. Cases closed. Requests handled. No extra work for you. To learn how to put AI to work for people, visit servicenow.com.

31:47All right, Haley, a few just final questions for you. So sad. It is sad for us. We hope you'll come back. I would love to. Yeah, we would love to continue this conversation. What's one thing our listeners can do this week to become more financially powerful?

32:04Haley Sacks: Have a money date. And it doesn't need to be like three hours long, but let's make it 10 minutes. And in that 10 minutes, it could be that you're resetting your passwords because you don't know what any of them are and you haven't logged in in so long. Like whatever that first step is, just do that first step and then do me a favor. And at the end of that 10 minutes, make a plan for when you're going to do your next 10 minutes. Just forcing yourself to sit down with your money is really going to be amazing. And what I will also say is that financial confidence follows financial action. So a lot of people think that they have to be really confident to start, but that's never going to happen.

32:44Haley Sacks: You have to first take action and then it's going to be a while probably till you feel confident. But just do what I say or what, you know, the teacher that you're following says and eventually you will feel confident. But don't don't think that you're going to wake up one day and it's going to, you know, all make sense. And that will be the moment that you start. Start anyways. Yeah, that is true, by the way, for every other aspect of your life. Confidence flows from action. I love the I just want to underscore it. Look for average returns. Financially, it's so freaking deeply liberating and so liberating and it stops you from doing all of this crazy stuff.

33:28If you look for average and you understand compounding, you're all set. Oh, my gosh. Like, that is so beautiful. It's so beautiful.

33:37Haley Sacks: I love it, too. I'm like, and that's why I don't do VC or angel investing, which people could make so much money on and God bless them. But I'm like, you know what? I will take my low cost index funds. I love them. Hello, Vanguard. You're my old friend. And that's all we need. Haley, will you help answer a listener question? Oh, my favorite thing to do. We got a question from a listener who is a successful academic. She's a mother of two with a work-life balance she wants. She is looking over the fence at the higher paying, more prestigious tenure track. And she is wondering about making a move.

34:19And here's some of the language that she was using in her email. how do you know you are making enough money while also seeing a different path that would have led to more? So there's this regret wrapped up to it. How would you begin to coach someone through evaluating this moment in their lives?

34:39Haley Sacks: I think for her thinking about what it would cost you versus not just what it would give you. so like if it's going to meaningfully increase your long-term freedom your compensation your job security your ability to do the work that you really care about and the intense period required to earn it feels like a worthwhile investment then you should do it but like if you're pursuing it just because it feels like the next step even though you're already happy and the process would require years of stress and longer hours and you're sacrificing priorities that matter more to you. I think that that is worth considering.

35:26Haley Sacks: But, you know, a good way to think about it is if tenor didn't exist as like a status symbol, would you still want the life required to earn it? Love that. Love it. That's very clarifying. Because you took away the emotional part of it there really beautifully. Yeah. Yeah. Haley, what's one thing you're currently fixated on outside of work? I am currently fixated on, well, I'm in like my first real relationship. So I've been just sort of like getting in on that. Like I'm like every day I like text my sister and her wife and I'm like, I didn't realize this is what you guys were up to. Like, wow, like you really got to like, there's like a lot of emotional labor here.

36:15Haley Sacks: I think it's worth it, but like, damn. So I've been very gleefully single for basically my whole life, which I think is such a privilege to be able to just become as a woman, like just be like, okay, I'm freaking 35 and I got to live all this life, like doing whatever I wanted to do, like wrote a book, like did all this cool stuff. And so for right now, I am, you know, making the move to being part of a couple. And so that is something that I'm learning about. What about you guys? What are you thinking about outside of work? Outside of work, I'm thinking a lot about health. I'm on a recovery process.

36:53I'm recovering from cancer. And it's which is congratulations. Yeah. And it's and it's going great. I got so proactive now about health. I'm now going to make a financial date and go do 10 minutes and then plan the next 10 minutes because I love that all for the health part. I haven't done it for the financial part. I'm someone who has studiously stayed away from thought. If I didn't know about finances, but I just had low level anxiety, it would cause me to work harder. So that's been my operating model. What are you, Anne? I'm I'm thinking about Francis's health. You know, what is the invitation of that kind of like a life disruption?

37:36It's also to the point of your work, making sure you're living the life you want to live. And I think the question at the heart of that for me has become, you know, what is the thing that makes you feel most alive? And it is a total privilege to be able to ask that question and answer it and have choices around that. So I think that's one thing I'm really sitting with.

38:05Haley Sacks: I love that. Well, if you figure it out, let us know. Haley Sachs, you're awesome. Thank you for coming on Fixable. Thank you for having me. This was so fun. If you're enjoying this show, make sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and tell a friend to check us out.

38:30Fixable is a podcast brought to you by Ted and Pushkin Industries. It's hosted by me, Anne Morris. And me, Frances Fry. This episode was produced by Trina Menino. Our team includes Constanza Gallardo, Banban Chang, Daniela Baloresso, and Roxanne Hilash. Our show is mixed by Louis at Story Yard.

39:30Haley Sacks: We'll be right back. 450 based on device discount waived activation fee. Not available if with Metro T-Mobile in the past 180 days. With no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One. If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep, even on weekends, it's pretty much all he talks about. In a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See CapitalOne.com slash bank. Capital One N.A.

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40:28Haley Sacks: nation without the compromise. Series by Marriott is part of Marriott Bonvoy. Book direct at Marriott.com or on the Marriott Bonvoy app.