EP. 403 | That Terry Butcher Episode: Maradona’s Hand Of God, Italia ’90 Stories & Bloodied Shirts

0:00Chris Stark: Hello and welcome to That Peter Crouch podcast with me, Peter Crouch. Got Sid and Chris with me. Sid, you're in the big chair? I'm in the big chair. I mean, I'd rather be in your chair. You know, look at that front of you. I am away just for a little bit. You know, we've basically last week we had Terry Butcher on the podcast. I've had to come out here. We always record the Paddy Power stuff and the intro afterwards and that's what we're doing now. no it's good Pete I quite like it because it's given slight Eurovision vibes it's like Pete's about to pile in with the results for whatever country he's in speaking of which just a quick quick word on Eurovision what was your thoughts are you across kind of what happened there I didn't really I'll give a fuck

0:47well look just to fill you in it was very low scoring I think we scored one point at most we're bottom of the table right I was trying to think what is the perfect at the centre Eurovision I have it in my head fat Les at Eurovision next year doing a proper job of it

1:04Chris Stark: thoughts my issue is with Eurovision it has been for quite some time is we underestimate how much Europe hates us the rest of Europe and I think our points reflect reflect the the vision of the rest of Europe towards the England and the UK I hear what you're saying but I do think we've got for want of robbing a phrase that was used to describe you guys a kind of golden generation of artists do you think we just need a better manager at the top there? Potentially yeah I think I don't know I think it's years of of dislike encapsulated in one in one tournament really and unfortunately it's very much a popularity contest I think we've got some good artists in this country definitely but the good artists why is he speaking like this is a post-match he's got he's got full TNT Mo Eurovision well it's just you know I don't want to say the wrong thing I do think there is a dislike towards us talking about a dislike towards us I had a dislike towards you two on the weekend because you you were at the FA Cup I was getting pictures of you last at Wembley and all that fucking bevved up it was good it was good wasn't it so I was there with my father-in-law, Pete, and Sid came down to come say hello to him.

2:29And then we ended up, we just had run of the place, didn't we? We were the last ones in Wembley. I think we was literally, when we looked outside the box into the stands, we was the last ones there. Not a seat sat in. And in our box, they ever come around, I was like, gentlemen, it's time, please. Now you have to go. But then Sid's brought us another 10, 15 minutes with his charm, you know? That's what he does. He's got this way about him. You should see him at Wembley, by the way, Pete. I don't know if you've been to a game at Wembley with Sid, especially given it was Chelsea. It was like being with Beyonce.

3:01Trying to get out of the stadium. It took about a half hour.

3:03Chris Stark: No, it did not. Beyonce. Why are you doing that? You are. The ginger Beyonce. It's got the same booty, to be fair. But we did miss you, mate. I love it. We sent you a photo and you sent us one back and you were there with your beer. We did miss you, mate. And my father-in-law, Martin, sends his regards as well. Oh, good. Well, regards to his family as well. Which is in turn you, I suppose. Yeah. Cheers. Yeah, you know, there was one... You know the video of me that we... VHS of me and I got Rude Hullett's shirt. Do you know that Rude sent me a... Well, I think it was via SIDS and John Terry actually got me a video back from the man himself, Rude Hullett.

3:54Chris Stark: Brilliant, this. So what's this? Why's John Terry involved? So the lads put the one of Pete going out with the VHS. JTC and said to me, he messaged me and was going, mate, I absolutely love this. I've sent it to Rude and Rudy is sending me this video back and then I forwarded it onto Pete and he was like blown away with it. absolutely blown away with it. That's so good. I've not seen this. You know, if you think about that, what 12, 13-year-old me getting, you know, the Rude Hullet shirt there. If you said, fast forward, I don't know, what is it, 30 years or whatever, and Rude was going to do me a message saying about me getting that shirt, like, you couldn't write it, could you?

4:39Chris Stark: No, that's mad. Are we able to see the video or is this private? Yeah, no, no, it's here now. I'm going to play it for you now. Hello, Crouchy. you got my shirt in 1995 I hope it brings you luck of course it was a long time ago getting old but I'm happy that you still have it I would like to have it back good luck that's wild isn't it so good it's rude isn't it what an icon what an icon what a legend rude hillit god yeah amazing so that was nice is that definitely him it's not AI no it's definitely him that Right, right, let's get into an absolute England legend. This is Terry Butcher.

5:26Chris Stark: Right, welcome to the podcast, Terry Butcher. Thanks very much. Yeah, this is big for us. I think certainly for me and Sid as well, I think you may be a bit too young, but Italia 90 for me was probably what got me into football. I just loved every part of it. I'd kind of like to start there, if you don't mind. It's hell yeah, ain't it? Well, you were coming into football, and I was going out of football then. Really? Didn't do much after that, no. Yeah. But it was an epic spectacle more than anything else. The football quality possibly wasn't great, but everything surrounding it, particularly with England, getting to the semis and just having a really good run through.

6:08We'd never done that before, really. And it was exciting. It was, we were up and down and yeah, it was just one that you look back with a lot of pleasure and a lot of people like yourself, that's where they're, that was their formative years. They really fell in love with football by watching Italia 90. So at least we did something right.

6:27Chris Stark: That felt like a really great camp. Like it looked like there was a lot of characters in that camp. Obviously, you know, Gazza being at the forefront of S1, everyone. But it felt like, you know, there was so many big characters in that squad. A lot of club captains as well, a lot of leaders, really big leaders, plus the younger ones, you know, Paul Parker, David Platt, Gazza, of course. But when you've got Gazza in the squad, my God, it's lively, put it that way. It's never a dull moment. You don't know what the hell he's going to do. But it was great. But he was so petrified about Bobby Robson sending him home that he would do something wrong, that he was quite sort of laid back.

7:03But you knew it was just underneath the surface, his fun and excitement. and the way that he was, you know, he was hyperactive all the time and he wanted to be the centre of attention and all that. But he really came good that World Cup in particular and that was really the start of his great career. But it was so special to be a part of that. And a lot of the guys had played obviously in 86 and, you know, the Maradona gold and all that sort of thing or goals. And it was lovely for us to try and sort of make amends a little bit of why we didn't get that bit further. We got one round further. I mean, that was it, but there we are.

7:40I was going to say, we're going into 90. Obviously, you're playing three World Cups, 82, 86 and 90. You've had the pressure as well with the build-up into the tournament and possibly that golden generation and favourites and it's coming home. Did you feel that going into any one of them tournaments that you had a good chance of winning it and the real pressure, I suppose, really around yourself and the camp? No, not really, no. We didn't think we were going to win it. We just went in there to try and win it. And we'd just go in there, start, you know, obviously the group matches and then see where it took us.

8:18But I went into Italia 90. We played Tunisia away. We flew from England out to Tunisia, played the game and then went to base camp in Cagliari. and we played poorly against Tunisia. We scraped a 1-1 draw and I headbutted their centre-half and got booked for it. And I thought, well... It was just a booking, was it? It was just a booking, yeah. Luckily, he never saw it, the referee, but he thought something must have gone on, so he gave me a yellow card. So I got away with that one. But it wasn't good for me at that start and I was starting to think I'm coming to the end here and I wouldn't start.

8:55Mark Wright was in the squad, Des Walker, of course. and I sort of thought, well, that will be the pairing centre-back. But I was just happy to be in the squad. And it was, like you said, it was a really vibrant squad. It was good to be with. The training sessions, I don't know how you felt, but the training sessions were unbelievably hard because we had so much quality players. John Barnes, Chrissie Waddles, Peter Beersley, Gary Linekers. They were just incredible players. And they would show you up in training if they could. So you had to be on your toes. and the training was harder than the actual games that you played.

9:29Was training quite aggressive, would you say? Oh, yeah. It was aggressive, yeah. You had to play aggressively. You couldn't be timid. If you were timid, you might have got injured or you might have injured your opponent and your teammate. But Bobby and Don Howe, the coach, really wanted it really bang, you know, bang on. You had to really work hard. If you worked hard in your training and he drilled you, then obviously when it came to the game, you understood, knew your role, knew your jobs and got on with it. That's big risk though, isn't it? Like big risk, big reward sort of stuff. Like you've been that hard in training, potentially harder than perhaps you remember Crouchy in training.

10:03Chris Stark: No, but I remember the quality going right up. Like I think, you know, the club level was good, but then it was like the best of the best got together. And it felt like everyone was trying to show each other, you know, not even impress the manager, we're just trying to impress the other kind of your peers, if you like. I think the levels went again, you know, the players stepped up. Yeah, they did. I've been lucky enough, George Burley got me as a coach for Scotland. I know I'm an Englishman, fierce Englishman, and I was with Scotland. But I just stood back one day because I was doing some coaching sessions with the team, and you set them tasks and things to do.

10:40And it was just so pleasurable with all these players because they were the best of the best, and they did it at such a high level, but did it easily at such a high level. But you had to force them on to do something else. So you went about four or five steps up when it came to an exercise. Whereas with your club teams, you probably go to one, two or three. So it was just incredible when you watched it. And the training, yeah. When the training sessions were over and they were then going to play the game, I was like, oh, thank God for that. Because I haven't got to play against these quality players when we play the opposition.

11:14So obviously not Maradona and all that. But it was great. It was lovely, wasn't it? I mean, sometimes you just felt actually honoured and you just felt, you know, I haven't got a camera here to take a picture, but, you know, you're just admiring the skill of the other boys.

11:28Chris Stark: Well, you know, you talk about your kind of determination spirit. You know, you kind of encapsulate what it was, I suppose, like to wear the shirt, if you don't mean. It looked like you always wore it with pride. I know we'll get into, you know, what's so iconic, the picture of you in the bloodied shirt. It's very, an iconic picture. Right. But where did that come from, like your mentality to be kind of that driven, determined, committed? Well, early on in my career, I was an Ipswich fan and I got to join Ipswich. So you're playing with your heroes. And I had like, is it imposter syndrome where you feel I've got to show people that I deserve to be here.

12:14And it was like that with England. And I remember playing at Wembley in a game and Tony Adams was on the bench and the crowd, you know, the team's announcing number six, Terry Butcher, and there was a boo from the crowd. And I'm thinking... I've been there, Terry. They're obviously Arsenal fans or something like that. You thought, well, I've got to show them. And every game he played, when he pulled that jersey on, you had to show them. I don't know about you, but the jerseys weren't particularly long, were they? They were quite short. Was yours tailor-made?

12:45Chris Stark: No, mine was short for a while, yeah. Yeah, it kind of got tailor-made towards the end. All right. Well, you were lucky then. I used to love them kits, the really high shorts. Yeah, because you've got Mark Hughes quotes. Imagine me in those. I'm not just saying that, but even the jerseys as well, though. I used to take up a different sport. I used to love the old kits. Yeah. They used to look brilliant. And obviously, they're making their way back now, aren't they? The vintage ones as well. They're great. Yeah, you see, sometimes you see an odd player with quite high shorts, but the rest of the stuff, they keep pulling them down, don't they?

13:17Yeah. They go along, they do the hair and they pull the shorts down and all that sort of thing.

13:20Chris Stark: Well, there's actually, there's a lot we need to get into about the modern game, Terry. We have a Games Gone board and I'm quite interested to hear your thoughts on that, about where you think the game's going at the moment. Yeah, at any point, by the way, if anything comes to mind, just mention it and we can work it on there. Shorts, too low. First one. Yeah. Yeah. What about that iconic picture of you, Terry? Like, you must have been asked thousands of times about that because when I look at that, firstly, like, you know, what was the injury how did it come about how did they allow you to carry on and why did you kind of want to carry on and should you have come off there's a million questions I've hit you with there but can you explain the game to me you better repeat them because there's that many it was a header wasn't it the incident in Sweden halfway through the first half we're playing Sweden they're our biggest rivals in the group they're top of the group so you sort of and I was the captain Brian Robson was injured.

14:18Peter Shill didn't want the captain, so he wanted to concentrate on his keeping. So I became the captain. And, you know, you're all white kit as well, which is lovely. So you're wearing it. But I went up for a header and I thought, well, I've got a free header here. I'm going to head this 50 yards back into their own half and get Gary and whoever's playing up front, I think Peter Beardsley, you know, a chance to run at their defence. So I'm going to melt this. So I got up and I thought, here we go. This is going to go like 50 yards. Perfect. You work on those during the training. And this little Swedish player, I think it was Ekstrom, whatever his name was, he just popped up in front of me and flicked the ball on.

14:53And I was committed and I just smashed the back of his head. And I've lost my hair now, so I've got a bit of a... I didn't lose it deliberately for people who can see the scar. But the scar's there. Oh, you've got... Steal the scar from that moment. I feel weirdly honoured to see the scar. I know. It does feel quite... This is going to sound strange. Can I touch it? You can touch the scarf, but nothing else. You want to touch the scarf? Get out of here. You're not doing that. That's bad to see. No, that is bad to see. It was so iconic. Well, Bobby said there was 22 stitches, but there was only seven.

15:31But at halftime, Paul Doc Crane from Arsenal, he could only put in five. And he had a big gap. And, of course, that's why I bled in the second half. But when you're playing, you're full of adrenaline, you want to do well, and you're captain of your country, you're not going to come off. and it was a big game as well you said yeah if Bobby had dragged me off I would have smacked him on I would have hit him because he was I'm not having a nap I'm not having a nap come on Gaffer come on so we just played on Gazza came in at half time and saw her and he was Gazza was always wide open he was like oh my god so I said in a few choice words to him sort of thing that you know this is our game we're going to win this so you know Bobby was in as well but it was you know he's just in and out changed his shirt and that was it and then get out there and do it Was there even a question about are you okay did you want to come off not that Bobby would have probably wanted you to come off but was there even an option for you to say no No I would have been very aggressive if someone had said come off no no chance and I didn't want to come off because I'd had previous knocks as you know it's what happens in football and I stayed on and all that sort of thing I had a broken nose in 82 in January I was in hospital for five weeks a lot of transfusions because it just kept on bleeding but I got into the World Cup squad later that year so I'd been through that scenario before and that was always going to happen I'd seen loads of players injured and they stayed on so I was the captain and that was it no danger

17:05Chris Stark: do you know when the blood was kind of all down your shirt was there not a point where there is a lot of blood here did that cross your mind? no I never focused on the blood I was focusing on the ball, but they kept crossing the ball in the box and I kept heading it away. So it wasn't my fault. And then I had it away and Peter Shilton comes out and taps me on the head as well. Well done. It was like squelch, squelch on the top of my head. Every time I had the ball, there was a squelch. Do you think they were trying to target you? Do you reckon that they were? Well, they did a good job if they were, yeah.

17:35No, I don't think so because they had a big, biggest team as well. So now it was no problem, but you could feel I was, with my hand and all that sort of thing it was sticky and in the ball I saw virtually on every player they had a bit of my blood on them I think even the referee had a bit of blood on them What about a medic who attended to you at the start would I because some of the footage even how they dealt with it was did one of them have a dart on at the same time as doing your head He probably needed one afterwards he wouldn't have had that Fred Street came on and he sort of put the bandage around.

18:13And it's amazing how every time Halloween comes around, people send me pictures of themselves dressed up as me. They get the white England shirt. I've seen it. You get the red paint. Have you seen something? I've seen that firsthand.

18:24Chris Stark: I've seen someone with a Terry Butcher's band. I've been in the game 40 years and I'm best remembered for a fancy dress outfit. Terry, I've seen, the other one I've seen is World Book Day with you. I saw a kid on TikTok or Instagram, and they'd done a Terry Butcher, and clearly their dad sent him off to school with it, giving them an education. Have you seen that one? Did he have my book? It must have. That's how they've justified it. Well, but a kid going in with the bandage. Yeah, I know. I'm going to find that. And I've done functions where people have actually put bandages around their head.

19:02When I've announced, they announced me, so I go on the stage and they've all got bandages around their head. They actually just sign their heads. I don't find it funny. I just like, why? What are you doing? To you, it's just part and parcel of the game, isn't it? Yes. Yeah, well, we got two shirts. My wife Rita washed them, obviously. And one we sold for charity. We got a lot of money. And the other one's in the Scottish Museum. Is it really? Up in Hampden Park. Wow. Yeah. It's amazing. It's an excellent captain sort of thing with a shirt in Scotland. but because I played up there that was it.

19:38Chris Stark: Well you know that connection is obviously you're such a proud Englishman you kind of encapsulate you know what it is I suppose to be English and play for the national team but what's obviously being like taken to so well up in Scotland as well managing up there having such a successful period with Rangers what's that like? It's a different world I mean it's part of the United Kingdom but it is different because there's so much passion about football. It really is. It's really everybody loves their team and loves them to death sort of thing. They really do. But I wouldn't say everybody loved me because there was Celtic fans and all the other clubs hated me.

20:20So, yeah. It was funny because the Englishmen played against Maradona, everything else. So whenever we went and played away, they cried but always sing, Mara Donna, Mara Donna, to have a go at me and the other English players in there as well. So you got used to that. But you've got to take it, you've got to give it out. But it was incredible. It was the best four years of my life, really, when you think about it. At Ibswich, I learnt the game, become professional rather than amateur, and then you move up several notches when you joined Rangers. So you have to win every game. You have to do well.

20:53The responsibility is great. You go into the stadium and you see all the, all the you know the roles of honor the hall of fame and all that sort of thing you just go through the trophy room which is massive and everything it's just an incredible place it should be something around you should be in the premier league but then that's another political story which we won't get into but they're that big well that that scottish football at that time as well

21:16Chris Stark: was kind of peak i mean i remember watching your rangers team it was you had some team didn't you yeah that sort of continued afterwards as well with all the dutchmen coming and you know van bronc horse and all these people loud drugs and all that gazes um but we soon as started it um and i was we got relegated to the ipswich in 86 and then i was looking for another club um and soon as came in and i went up there i haven't played there once before in a testimonial sort of thing and i knew what it was like but when you run out with the crowd it's just noise and the old firm games are just noise you can't speak to people five yards away they won't hear because of the noise and it's just give and go and all the time with the fans so you you you sort of think wow i've really got to up my game as well as upping the standard of play but it was a great place to be because a lot of the scottish teams were in europe england teams weren't english teams weren't because of heisel so you ended up um you know you had you had game after game after game and it was great but it was a price to pay if you didn't win the title you got absolutely pelters you know so i think it was he had to win it had to win it back and that was the start of nine in a row and then walter smith took over from graham and it was yeah they really set a really high standard so it was it was an incredible place to be it really was um you mentioned obviously the maradona game you know what are your what your memories of of that and 86 as a as a whole really that world cup it looked like incredible heat you were playing in yeah um but that game against Argentina can you just talk us through your memories of that yeah we'd we'd um we'd flew out we'd played uh 85 we'd Bobby took us out there for a little sort of look around when we played Italy and we played Mexico and West Germany as well um and went to the Azteca Stadium and it was awful it was being rebuilt for the World Cup um and it was it was really poor the pitches were poor uh and it was when the when we played against Maradona the grass was long The pitch was very poor.

23:18He played at 12 o 'clock, which was the hottest part. And Bobby would say, like, for the – he put bags of water, cold water, by the side of the pitch. So he said, if you want a drink, come over and – he broke open the bag and drink it. But you couldn't because it was boiling. It was boiling hot water. The only thing that was missing from there was a goldfish. I mean, if a goldfish were in there, that would have been fried. So it was like that. But, no, it was warm. but you just go for it. You don't bother about the heat and everything else, the wind and whatever it was in any game. You just go for it.

23:54It was an awful game and obviously triggered in the second half when he went and handled it. I didn't see it. Half the team didn't see it. And I think a lot of people did see it, but it was given. And it was like a hammer blow, really. And then we obviously weren't right because a few minutes later he got that second goal. Did you hear the crowd's reaction to it at least? Did you know something was up or did it? What, with a handball? Yeah. I just heard Terry Fenix and Peter Shilton's reaction. Handball, handball. He ran past me. So I ran after them thinking, well, more the merrier. We might just get this.

24:31I never saw it. No, you didn't hear the crowd. Obviously, when they score, it's not so much the crowd noise. It's your inner voice. your inner voice your inner voice is saying you know what happened there you know like we've got to react you've got to be positive you've got to then put it to the back of your mind and react to it and we but we didn't react to it we we ended up conceding a second goal but you don't so much hear the noise i don't know about about you boys but you don't really hear that muffles out doesn't it yeah i mean you hear them when they shout your name and there's swear words afterwards and things like that even when they're having a go at you when uh when would have been the first time you'd have seen a replay of that because now it had been straight away when you get in the dressing rooms and you know it's instant or it might be now on the subs on the on the benches on the technical area but for you back then would you have seen at the stadium or was it been the bus ride home back at the hotel or no i was well i was had to be i was in the drug testing room with maradona yeah yeah when we there was no separation which was i thought at the time i I thought, well, did he handle it?

25:38Didn't he handle it when I was in there? And of course you're distraught and you're upset and there's tears and they were allowed beers and we weren't allowed beers, which was probably a preferential treatment and all that sort of thing. Because after a few beers, you can have a pee. So I just went like that to Maradona or like that with my hand. And he went like that with his head. Oh, he doubled down. But then I thought at the time, well, he was very clever, but there's something about it that wasn't right. he sort of felt and this is a bit dodgy but anyway he got a great second goal when it wasn't great because he beat me twice not once so that's a bad memory but you know we were out of the World Cup so you don't see it I didn't see it that night because all I wanted to do that night was just get absolutely blind drunk because you knocked out of the World Cup and so we did we had a right good session and then we flew back then I flew out to Portugal where the family were on holiday and I never really saw it until then and I never watched the final did you watch it after you got knocked out, did you watch any games?

26:37Chris Stark: No, I haven't watched any, like, Champions League final we lost. Never watched it back. I couldn't watch it back. Yeah. So, but I mean, you know, that goal, certainly, well, both goals, they must have been the most replayed goals of all time. Yeah. Really. For two different reasons. But how good was he, Maradona? Like, I know, you know, is he the best for you? Is he the best you've been on a pitch with or not? Well, I've been on a pitch with Georgie Best in the testimonial, so I'm going to say he was better. No, he was the best, the best I've ever played against. I didn't know what he looked like.

27:11All I saw was the back of his head and I was chasing his number 10 around the pitch and all this. But he was a very, very clever player. You see highlights and you see clips and you see when Bobby was warned us against him and all that sort of thing. But you think he can't be that great, he can't be that good. But then he was. And then you know you're in the presence of greatness when he's there because everything he does is right. Everything he does is coordinated and he knows what he's doing. His centre of gravity is low. He's stocky. He's got thunder thighs on him. He's got really big thighs and he's got good strength.

27:43And he knows when to make the right pass and he knows when the tackle's coming in. So he's a very, very clever player. So, yeah, there was no stopping. We just couldn't do it.

27:53Chris Stark: You've talked about Bobby Robson and obviously you had a really successful spell at Ipswich. I mean, that was probably their best period, almost won the league. Thanks for that, yeah. Yeah, no. Was it Villa? It was Villa, wasn't it? Great, it's not Villa. Move on. Well, it's Bobby Robson is what I'm going to ask you about. I mean, what made him so special? Because everyone who's worked with him just always just talks about him in such glowing terms. Yeah, I mean, I don't think I've ever heard a bad word said against him because he was that guy. He was hard, though. He was really strong. Geordie, from the Miners in Newcastle.

28:30And he was one that... He was my idol anyway because he was a manager of the club I supported as a boy. So, you know, he could do everything that he wanted to. And he sort of, he never sort of called me Terry. It was always effing butcher this and effing butcher that all the time because I always did things wrong. So you soon learn not to do things wrong and do them right. But he was one, once he got your name right, he was fine because he used to get a lot of names wrong as well. So he did that, but he was lovable. And he didn't mean to be funny, but he was funny. He'd tell you that, don't be late for the bus, don't be late for a meeting.

29:05It's like a train at the station. He says, if you're one minute late, train's gone. He says, get there at least five minutes early. And he was never on time for a meeting or for when the bus left or anything else. He was an incredible guy and he taught me a lot of things and he was very strict on the dress code. You know, your shorts up, shorts there, your shirt in, tucked in, socks pulled up, not over your knees, socks pulled up. That might go on the board, over your knees. Over your knees. Over your knees. Okay, we'll note these down, all right?

29:40Chris Stark: These are important ones. Over your knees. Not for you. Not for me at all. Is there anything else that's annoying you about today's game at the moment, Terry? Oh, don't get me started. I thought it might be the case, but... No, what is all this thing about when players speak to each other, they have to cover their face? What is all that? I mean, I know it's lip readers and all that sort of thing, but what are they going to say that people are going to object to? Yeah. I can't believe that. I don't like that. The best way now is you see kids doing it on a Sunday league. I've seen... Have you seen them?

30:06Yeah. But then the one that gets me as well is not just the players. It's if they're talking to their coaching staff as well. The coaching staff do it. I can't deal with that. Yeah, they come out to the edge of the technical area and they'll rush out and then they'll go like this. There's a referee go with the player. You're sent off. You're booked. Did you say that?

30:27Chris Stark: All right. We'll put that up. What do you make of England at the moment, Terry? We've got a chance at this World Cup. You played three World Cups yourself, a decade playing for England, what, 77 caps, I believe. You know, you know your stuff. Have we got a chance of winning it? I think we have a chance. I think it's quite wide open. I don't think it's any real clear-cut favourites. You know, I sort of thought of your generation, the golden generation, and other teams I've seen from England in World Cups, So I think, well, yeah, we could win this. We could win this. But we have a lot of really good players.

31:03We have a good balance in the team. But it's just picking the right players. I don't think you'll go through like you would like the World Cup in 66 when you knew your line-up, the England's line-up, that was what it was going to be. I don't think that was going to be the case with England now because there's obviously a rotation of the squads now in club football. But with England, you've got so many good players. you can not so much rotate them, but you've got really great options and a lot of subs now as well. But I think as well, all this history... Sorry about that. I think it was Bobby Robson for me.

31:38Another call-up. Another call-up, yeah. Yeah, it was on CFAX, a call-up. Was it CFAX? That's how you found out? That's how we found out. CFAX? Yeah. And if you missed it, you had to wait for it to go around. You had to wait for it to go around. It was like 24 pages for it to go around. But the thing was as well, you got your letter that you've been selected the next day after you knew that you were in the squad on CFAX wow you got the letter that's incredible

32:01Chris Stark: that's so funny god bring back CFAX I love it so you think we'll so yeah there's a bit of a chance you think in this tournament I guess the lesson learned is we need to make sure we put the waters in the fridge right and don't leave them out don't leave them on the pitch yeah yeah but it's interesting when you see players come out the sub will come on and he'll go and he'll he'll get see one of his teammates as a set piece or something and he'll pass him the gel you know the gel he'll rip it open and he'll eat the gel on the pitch that would never happen put that up there as well I've got a whole list are we knowing he's down because I want three from Terry Butcher I'll just meet the Terry Butcher game's gone board we're getting sponsored by Terry Butcher how can you eat something on the pitch I might just let you go for a minute I think we've got a chance sorry I think We've got a chance.

32:54If you're not optimistic, then we'll probably go a long way. When you're really confident, then we don't.

32:59Chris Stark: That's why I always think that as well, you know. Let's not build ourselves up too much. Let's just go and get the job done. Yeah. Right, Terry, so you've got a documentary coming out on ITV. Yeah. Obviously something that's very, very personal to you. It's called Invisible Wounds about your son. About Christopher, yeah. Yeah, he was, he was, yeah, I'm going to start welling up a bit here a little bit. But it's a powerful film and it's so well done. It brought us to tears at the end of the day. Chris used to come, my wife Rita brought Chris out to the World Cup in 82, 12 weeks old. And, you know, we did it on our own.

33:43It wasn't, you know, with the wags and everything else like that. Glenn Hoddle's wife came out. and Kenny Sansom's, I think, as well. But they weren't in a group together, came in individually, but they would come out and I actually fed Chris. I was left out of the Q8 game, which was the third game, because I'd been booked in the first game against France. So Steve Foster played, so I was taken out, because in those days it wasn't expunged after the group stages, the yellow cards, it went all the way through. So I was feeding my son, watching Q8 play England in the World Cup in 1982. It was surreal, wasn't it?

34:18That is really, really wild. So he was an England fan long before he knew it sort of thing. So, yeah, then he was in the army. He was the eldest in the army, went out to Iraq and Afghan and came back. And about three years later after he came back from Afghan, he was diagnosed with PTSD, post-traumatic stress disorder. And it was sort of gentle at first. He knew there was something wrong. He would drink a lot more. he would be on edge a lot more and then it just developed into something really horrible and we ended up caring for him, reaching my wife for about 18 months and it was horrific, it really was so the film's about him in terms of coming back to the UK and like most veterans, having PTSD and it's about the families as well because we were the family with him and we don't want other families to go through that.

35:20We want to get them help. And that means a lot of speaking and talking and making sure that they're not alone. And that's the main thing because when you've got PTSD, you shrink away, you hide away, you don't come out, you don't talk. It's a little bit like men's health as well, you know, with yourself. You find it very difficult to communicate. You just want to suffer and think you can get through this. I'll get through this on my own but you've got to talk and that's what we are encouraging families and veterans to do well I think yeah as you say that I think it's incredible what you've made here beautifully shot from from from what I've seen and um I think especially with yourself being a real symbol I think a lot of the time of kind of toughness on the face of it resilience um representing your country I think for you to be able to start these conversations especially during this time with the World Cup coming around grief, around mental health, PTSD, loss.

36:21I think it's going to have a lot of valuable conversations happening around the UK. So we should say thank you to you for allowing those to happen because you're the one that's going to come out here and talk about all of these things and talk about the film. But it's going to do a lot of good. Well, I hope so. That's why I did it. I hate looking at myself. Did you like looking at yourself on the TV when you watch games? Did you go, well, he looks great there. I look great on that. I hated it. I wouldn't do it. Like on radio, when you play it back, I hated listening to myself. So it wasn't about me.

36:58If it was just about me and my career, I wouldn't have done it. But because there's such a powerful story with Chris and with Combat to Coffee, we're on Patreon now. When Chris passed away, I didn't really know what to do. We wanted to start a charity. We wanted to get something going to start this sort of light thing that we're doing now. But it was just too complicated. And my wife Rita says, I can't do this. So I heard about Combat to Coffee. And I thought, that sounds great. And it was within Ipswich. And Nigel Seaman was the guy who started it, Expara. And he was about helping people and about the coffee.

37:38If you have a coffee and they roast good coffee, it's a lovely coffee with combative coffee. When you have a coffee and a brew, you can start, that starts conversations and then you start to develop things and you get more confident because when you've got PTSD and you're struggling, you don't want to mix with people. You mix with fellow veterans. It's that background you're used to but not with the public. So you've got to try and get people to come out and speak and have a conversation and coffee starts that we had this discussion the other day didn't we on this podcast is it it's obviously a chance for us to talk but then it's interesting always in this always resonates with at least a few people who are listening right now and maybe a deeper level to some others who are listening right now it makes people sometimes question you know their own thoughts and what they're going through so what we can do is uh obviously on our socials we can put some some links to to the charities that you're talking about um and obviously a link to the film that's coming out um and you need to make sure you see this as well because it is an incredible story and it's keeping the message going isn't it it's about breaking enigma breaking barriers um and we getting i think you know in this day and age now men are being more probably more open for sure than what it was a decade ago but there's still a lot of men out there and and veterans um that will still keep a shell so as long as we keep sending the message out is is the uh because when when we were when chris was with us um we couldn't get any help there was other charities combat stress and help for heroes but he was too severe and complex his his illness was very very you know it wasn't wasn't great at all so there was no one to turn to and then i found out about combat the coffee and then they're linked with a lot of other charities because it was a few years after he'd passed away.

39:34And it's great to see the charities and the companies now. There's so many now more charities than ever before and you sort of refer to these. We have a long list of who you can speak to and who you want to go to, Samaritans or something like that, where you can go to and get help. And they're all working together now. which is really good because initially they weren't. They were just trying to be good individually on their own. But there's a lot of people out there, a lot of companies that do help. And we're involved with the Ministry of Defence as well, and they're there for it as well. They want to help because they realise that they can't do what all the other charities are doing because it's so complicated.

40:20And, you know, you can't get to central – you know, it's not – they were decentralized central but the actual charities around there obviously within the areas

40:27Chris Stark: of the of the veterans and their families is there enough help for you terry you and your wife now like obviously you know the grieving families people that have been really affected by it is there help for is there people for you to talk to i find this is really helpful this is see two or three years ago i couldn't have done this i couldn't come out and speak because it was too raw and it's still very raw and i reach a point sometimes where i say do 10 minutes 15 minutes I'm doing longer because it's you guys that's why but I couldn't have done that before because it's I found it too much and overwhelming and I still do and I still have a cry and I think that's the thing as well having a cry when you lose somebody you know it's good to cry get out your system I was coming back on the train from doing a function once for London to Ipswich and I was in tears I just heard this music and it's triggers things that make you think of your son think of other people think of your loss and it blows your mind but you've you've got to do that and you do get a little bit better with each time you do that as well and each time you speak to somebody you just feel that that a little bit better but for us this is this is great what we've done but we've had four five years six years on our own but we're just like sort of normal people that we just we we we grieved um together we grieved individually but we didn't we didn't get any help and we probably should have done to be honest we i mean we should have done you know you can't tell people to come and speak to people when you don't do it yourself no but we're we've taken a bit of time but we're doing it now and i thank you so much for for what you're doing as well because hopefully that can help if it helps one person oh it's 100 % well look obviously we've got to thank you and obviously thank your son for his service as well and then this film is going to be on itb i want to get this right 7th of june invisible wounds uh make sure you tune in like you say you know thanks for for sharing this i know you know incredibly hard for you but yourself you've given you know great service to to our country as as christopher you know and um you know it'll always be be remembered and um we'll make sure that we all tune in and hopefully our listeners will tune in as well.

42:32Chris Stark: So ITV, Invisible Wounds on the 7th of June. Thank you very much. Right, Terry, we had loads of questions from our listeners that wanted to ask you things. They weren't about Maradona, were they? I imagine probably it was a couple about the bloodied shirt and one or two about Maradona as well. Did you get offered a role in Escape to Victory as there were lots of Ipswich players who did appear? Yes, we were asked. Bobby Robson came into the dressing room at the end of the season and just said, like, this is what's happening. You know, anybody want to volunteer to go out there? And all the boys did, but I was on honeymoon.

43:10So if I'd have gone out there, I think I said, like, cancel the honeymoon, I'm going out there. I think I wouldn't be here today. You're like, God, that was...

43:20Chris Stark: Oh, we escaped a victory like that. It was brilliant. Russell Osman, the best mate, he said it was absolutely brilliant. He's telling some of the stories as well. They were hilarious. but to meet all these people, you know, you know, World Cup winners and Bobby Moore, Bobby Moore was my hero, number six, I always wore number six. It would have been incredible but, you know, first things first. Yeah. All right, Tom Lee says, please tell us everything you remembered from Italian 90. I think we've covered that but Roger Miller, did you, who got Roger Miller's shirt after the quarters? Do you know that?

43:52Chris Stark: No, I didn't. I wasn't one for swapping shirts. Oh, it's the same. No one wants to swap with you, do they? No, no. It's a couple of blood. Well, that's very true. It's very true. It's got a health warning in my shirt, yeah. No, I didn't want to... I mean, when we were pictured, Chris Waddell and myself, like, this will have a disco sort of thing after the Belgian game, Chris has got the Belgian player's shirt on. I'm not having that. No, no, no. So, you know, I know I never got his shirt. I never got a Cameroon shirt. No. I got an Argentinian shirt in 86 because I was in the drugs room. Everybody had gone, but by the time I got back to the dressing room and there was an Argentina shirt on the floor.

44:29So I thought, well, I'd better take that. So I thought, well, you know, I can always use that in cleaning something. I've got one. I've got one. I was with John Terry yesterday. Oh, right, yeah. And he said about legends and number sixes there. When I said that I was on the podcast today and that you was on, he actually said to pass on his regards and that you was one of his heroes. Oh, that's very kind. And he actually did have a question for me to ask you. Oh, God. And it was, who was your favourite partner to play alongside? A second and a half. With England? I suppose with England. With anyone, I suppose, yeah.

45:06He was actually really intrigued. He was actually going through his mind who it would have been, but he said, please ask the question. Well, it has to be Des Walker. I was going to say Des Walker. You've never beat Des Walker. You've never beat Des Walker, yeah. And he's a great guy, a funny guy. He was really good. You talk about the characters in the team. He was quiet. He didn't talk to the press. he was just really quiet but when he spoke it mattered and particularly on the pitch he used to have a right go at me I was in the wrong position sometimes and he'd have a right go at me which I like because he was just obviously younger than me in junior but it showed character and strength I love that I love the talk I don't know if they talk a lot on the pitch they don't talk enough they don't talk enough not enough communication not enough communication no that one down

45:46Chris Stark: yeah okay random one what was it like managing Sydney FC was it a weird year or did you get to enjoy the city? Did Dwight York knuckle down or did he enjoy Sydney? That's from Kiriak. Have you got any more questions? Was that the same person? It was all the same question. Sydney FC, Dwight York. I love Sydney for a start. It's one of the best places to live. The pound was something like two and a half dollars to the pound, which is a lot less now. So we had a great time. Everything, all the food and drink was just an incredible place. Sydney FC had won the league the year before, the inaugural year under Pierre Lipbarski.

46:27So he had a bit of a task to try and retain it. Dwight was with me. Dwight knuckled down. Yeah, he was brilliant. He was really good. But I only had him for one game. And then we sold him to Sunderland. Because he wanted to get back in the Premier League. So we sold him. And it was obviously a record fee at the time because not many Australians paid money for them out there. So, yeah. But we made the playoffs. but there was a points deduction as well during the season. What could go wrong went wrong. So needless to say, I was sacked and home on the plane the next year, but I had a great time. There you go.

47:01The Sydney nightlife was lovely then. No, I did that before in 83, the Sydney nightlife. King's Cross and all that. That was very good. No, it was a great time. It was beautiful, really good. There was a high in terms of for the family and everything else. And Chris came out. My son Chris came out there for R &R it was. who was in Iraq. Yeah, he came out. We had a ball. Real ball. Football wasn't good, but we had a ball. Yeah. I've never been to Australia. Neither have I. I'd love to do it. You've never been? No. I don't know. I don't make that sound like I've been and it's like, what do you mean you've never been?

47:33I mean, with football, you never went to? No, never. Never been. People would think you're an Australian rules player because of the size of you. Yeah. Because there are big guys out there. You'd have fitted in really well then.

47:43Chris Stark: Yeah. I'm up for it. There's still time, you know. Yeah. I think you've got Aussie humour, though, as well. I think you're suited to the country. Cheers, mate. Your Aussie accent is good as well. Yeah, but he's blonde and got lovely teeth. He must be Australian. You should see me surf. You've got to pay for that, man. You fucking don't want to see that. Can I ask you, this is Jake Bissett, can I ask you about your relationship with Derek Adams and the Ross County Inverness Highland Derby? used to be proper chaos when he and Adam were the managers of the respective clubs. Yeah, well, Derek was a player with me at Motherwell.

48:23I was a manager. He was one of my midfield players and we got on really well. And he was a manager of Ross County and I was in Venice and that's a big derby. Well, it's not really a big derby. It's a derby, nothing like the old firm and things like this. But it was very fierce and we just, you know, we were, what can I say, the relationship became a little bit strained, a bit stretched. And I remember we went there one year and we drew against them in the cup match. And it was something like 3-3. And I went into his office with my number two, Morris, and we went into his office and he's got OCD, you see, very good.

49:03So everything was like structured on the table, everything straight lines, straight lines, straight lines, straight lines. And I'm a little bit like that and I can appreciate that. But we were waiting to get a beer. Now he didn't drink either and he didn't smoke. sorry he didn't smoke and he didn't swear but apart from that he was a good guy but you know he's like he's sort of think well we're waiting we're waiting we waited about 15 20 minutes and i'm like come on we've got to get away because i'm desperate for a point and i've and i says i started walking out of the room and i went back in i thought well he's kept us waiting for all this time and he's not come in i said so i went on the desk and i went on the desk and then walked out i don't know what he was like when he came in because it was all on the floor and everywhere the right best

49:43Chris Stark: but there were some proper battles there you know like Pep and Arteta almost like you know they were friends and now they look like they're really having a go so you had some big battles then yeah but you know what it's like you want to win for your team yeah irrespectively if you've got mates I didn't like playing against me mates they'd be the first person I would kick because you have to get out of your system sort of thing but you know I didn't like that very much but you know this is the way it is do you have many mates that you played against the centre halves and all that Yeah, a few over the years.

50:13Chris Stark: But yeah, you still want to get one over on them, don't you? Competitive, you still want to win. It doesn't matter who's in front of you. Yeah, absolutely. I want Terry Butcher to manage the England team again. I want you brought back into the set-up. Do it now. I think that ship has sailed, to be honest, Chris. But no, it is a sort of, you know, it's the pride of wearing the jersey. It's just so big. You play for England, under 20s, under 21s. Yeah, yeah. It's when you pull that jersey on. It's incredible. It makes you feel, not like Superman, but it makes you feel... Yeah, immense pride. Yeah.

50:48But then you've got to justify it, and that's the thing by doing very well. Yeah. Yeah, as it should do.

50:54Chris Stark: Listen, Terry, it's been an absolute pleasure having you on. Just before you go, I've just got to recap on some of those games gone. It was socks over the knee. Yeah. A lack of communication. Yeah, talking. Talking. Underhand communication. Underhand communication. Is there anything else that's pissing you off at the moment? Hairbands. Yeah, hairbands. That's it. Hairbands. Hairbands. Okay, I'm just going to put those four in if that's all right. Have you got room? Have you got enough room there? We'll get two on there. If you don't mind signing it, Terry, I'll pop all those back up on the top there.

51:32Chris Stark: If you just sign it at the end there somewhere. Yeah, thank you. Right, ladies and gentlemen, Terry Butcher.

51:47Chris Stark: Right, that was Terry Butcher, lads. Obviously, towards the end there, you know, it was pretty deep, wasn't it? You know, obviously losing your son is nothing that, you know, no one should go through that, I think, and losing his son in that manner. It did feel like, you know, Terry obviously gave everything in England, gave great service to his country, and obviously so has his son Christopher as well. So I thought that was a special moment. I mean, he's very brave for doing what he's doing, bringing out the documentary on ITV. Also great to chat to him about his England career and his football career as well.

52:21Chris Stark: Totally that, yeah. Yeah, fair play to him. And I do love this podcast. I love that we can do all the football chat, but it'll also be a bit of a place for people to feel comfortable to talk about some of these things that can be quite hard to talk about and fair play to him. what a gent as well yeah really nice kind of really nice fella like kind of old school values I suppose and you know you kind of see that with the way he played the game you know he's definitely he was always going to be that kind of he was quite a tough straight hard guy but he had a softer side as well and he's immensely proud of what he's achieved and what his son's achieved yeah and some great great contributions to the Games Gone Board as well we should look at that wasn't we yeah and great stories in general you know like the way that the game's changed so much it's you know as having a football icon for England as much in that chair where the build up for the World Cup it actually started getting me really excited now for the for the tournament yeah as well absolutely yeah maybe we just focus on the World Cup Pete yeah but unfortunately Chris this is the league that everyone cares about certainly on this podcast we'll get straight into it now difficult difficult week again for you mate I know you enlisted the help of your wife she only got the one point that gave you a minus five points which is really kind of cemented things now there is a way of you getting out of this Sid's is I mean Sid's is like Man City in their pomp here he's on 93 points there's an opportunity for Sid's to go to 100 points in this league I think that's some achievement if I have to say so myself with the help of everyone out there thank you Mrs S fans who's it Joe Cole I thank them all no you're doing so well I read some of the comments on the post that went up on Instagram which by the way was an interesting one to see this week it popped up my picture's been replaced with Ian Beale it now lists my wife's name as well as my own a lot of comments as well about Chris Ria driving home for Christmas and all that I saw that I saw all of it Ian Beal that's weird full circle there Sid you know there was a point in the podcast where you felt you were getting treated like Ian Beal at one stage and then Beal's like she had gone full circle yeah I've definitely been treated by like Ian Beal in my footballing career at some points felt like I've been the Ian Beal of the squad so it's nice to be top of the path once I'm happy I'm in the big chair I'm top of the path top of the league life's great unbelievable it couldn't get much better for Steve Simot in a minute could it let's be honest like Beyonce at Wembley the big Chilton guy okay lads right listen the next part of the podcast is supported by Paddy Power before we get into the actual game that is supported by Paddy Power this is the Minister of Mischief he sent in a letter hi Crouchy Chris Notorious SID well lads we've made it the final game week of the season one last set of fixtures one last chance for glory, disaster, or in Chris's case, complete humiliation.

55:39Chris Stark: Before we get into that though, credit where it's due. Sizz, if it wasn't already, another solid week has well and truly put this title race to bed. Take a bow, sir. Irritatingly good stuff. Which leaves us with the one question left to answer, who is finishing last? Crouchy certainly proved he's more of a stick than a carrot man, avoiding the minus point to open up a nine point cushion at the bottom. Proper relegation scrap behaviour. Chris, a bold, if morally questionable decision to hand the reins over to

56:16Chris Stark: Mourinho for the rest of the season. And on this occasion, it hasn't paid off. Avoiding last place now requires a miracle. Luckily for you, both miracles and chaos go hand in hand. so that brings us nicely onto our sixth and final chaos card one final roll of the dice I call it all or nothing this week's highest scorer will bag themselves five bonus points but the lowest score minus five a ten point swing in the final week filthy stuff one moment of brilliance could change everything one disaster class could leave your season in ruins no safety nets, no parking the bus just pressure yours sincerely, the Minister of Mischief oh one last one last roll of the dice you've got can I just establish just so I know exactly where we're at how many points has everyone got on this league you are you're 10 I think you're 10 points behind me so whatever you get plus the 10 point swing if I finish bottom this week and you finish top there's a 10 point swing there plus your points you'd go above me so you're telling me there's a chance It can.

57:27Chris Stark: It can. It can. It can. 61-72-93. So 11 points. All right. The party power fixture is Manchester City versus Aston Villa. Four o 'clock on a Sunday. City obviously favourites two to seven. Do we think there's anything other than a Man City win here? I mean, Villa have cemented Champions League, haven't they? What have you got up your sleeve? No. Don't know what Chris is doing, but he's up to something here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't like it. Okay, look. What I've done is I've got rid of the wife from the predictions. Just to be clear. She came in for one game. One game only. I spoke to her father about this at the weekend when he was at the football and I had to sit him down and said, I'm really sorry, Martin, but I'm going to have to leave your daughter how did he take it?

58:27out of the predictions league how did he take that? shook my hand weirdly did he really? I think you made the right decision I'm joking okay so this is a really tricky one I've decided that it's right to finish this season how we started so I've gone back on Instagram I've thrown it out there and I've said please only message me if you are sure you are right so I'm going with the sort of elite podcast listeners here. I'm going with people that I'm going to have to trust to see me across the line here. People like Jack Corrin, Richard Freezer, Darren Moody, Dennis Flood, Taylor Casson. You know, all respected names.

59:12All podcast listeners. Massive in the game. And I'm going to go with, to kick things off here, a 2-1 city win. 3-0 city. whoa three zipper jeez okay I'm gonna go can I just say as well just what's confusing about this situation we should be really transparent about this we're recording this on Monday so this whole league could have changed so much given by the time this podcast comes out by the time you're hearing it City will have played Bournemouth so it could be wrapped up Arsenal could have lost to Burnley do you know what I mean there's a lot we don't know as we make these predictions good point I'm going to I'm going to go 3-1 3-1 I think that's a bit Weasley on Crouchy there personally a little bit Weasley he's gone 3-0 I think Villa will score ok

1:00:09Chris Stark: moving on to Palace vs Arsenal I don't know there's a team going for the title and a team in another European Cup final you'd expect Arsenal to win this where is the game is it at Arsenal no it's at Palace it's at Palace oh that's a big swing that's a big swing the only thing that worries me on this one is the cup final for Palace that is the only thing that that could potentially sway a slight team selection which they've got every right to do oh you reckon yeah I think they might rest a couple yeah like what yeah it must be their first European cup final surely what's the strength of kind of shithouse feeling though do you know what I mean do they just want to disrupt everything I think you've got to look at it you know like this they've had 37 games before this one you know there would have been teams that have maybe rested players at certain points when they've got games throughout the season you know it's their prerogative to rest players if they want you know of course they'll be going all out to win the game they want to win the game it's in the Premier League but I still think it's their prerogative if they want to rest players.

1:01:20So there's a rumour going round, and I don't know whether it's true or not, because I've seen it online. And if Arsenal win the league, they have to pay£10 million to Crystal Palace as part of ASA's contract. If Arsenal ever won the league, they have to pay£10 million. I can't know. £10 million is a lot of money. It's a lot of money, yeah. I think it's going to be tight again. I'm going to go with Arsenal 1-0. and that would sum their season up wouldn't it 1-0 to the Arsenal yeah what a little set piece to win the league yeah imagine that go on I know you've got yours no mate I just think this is so tricky because we're all working on an assumption here Arsenal will beat Burnley right yeah it's like if Arsenal have already won it they'll just it'll be so happy and confident won't it and it'll be 3-4-0 whatever one you don't choose I'm going to go with the other one yeah Well, you're going the reverse missionary.

1:02:19Or Crouchy, if this is about winning the league and I take a sort of I need to throw the goalkeeper forward mentality, do I try to trigger the bonus points and go for a big score? I don't think there's been many higher scoring games involving Palace. Either way.

1:02:36Chris Stark: All right, well, I appreciate you stepping in. Can I just ask why the Europa League this year is before the end of the Premier League season? What about the FA Cup final? Where's the suits gone? where's the manager coming out with the suit with the huge flower we said that it's crouchy it was a disgrace at the FA Cup this weekend I watched it here but yeah it needs to be suits doesn't it surely yeah Chelsea Lab was in a track suit like track suit thing trainers it's got to be a suit ideally a club suit as well with a club logo in my opinion quite ill fitting ideally and with a giant flower massive flower We could add that to the board.

1:03:16All right, I'm going Arsenal 2-1. So you're going to go missionary again? I'm going missionary for this. I'm going to go full hammer. Arsenal need this. And they're going to go 3-0.

1:03:27Chris Stark: Okay, moving on to Tottenham versus Everton. Spurs could have been fully out of it, really, with a win at Leeds. Unfortunately, it didn't happen. Yeah, but so Tottenham's still in it. Do we think Spurs are getting something here or do we think they're going down? Well, again, with this game, this game could be decided already, depending on the result. They just need a draw, didn't they? A draw against Chelsea at Stamford Bridge, which I believe they've only won once in 34 or 35 visits. Yeah. But they only need a point. So this game could be irrelevant in terms of their survival. I'm going to go on the basis that they won't get something at Chelsea and that they'll need to win on this one.

1:04:15I'm going to go on that basis as well, Sid.

1:04:17Chris Stark: I like it. That's why I'm going to go 2-0 Spurs. Yeah, I was going to say that. That beat me to it. You want missionary, don't you? I'm tempted. I actually think... What a quote, you want missionary, don't you? Yeah. Just, sorry, again, if we're having full circle moments, Crouchy, you know, you look at the route. Never did I think Steve Sidwell would be looking me in the eye telling me I want full missionary. You want it, don't you? You want it, don't you? You know you do. I think it would be tidy to have missionary across the board, but you know what? I'm going to go 1-0 on this game. What would you class that as spooning?

1:04:56I don't know, mate. Oh, it's going to be a miracle for me to get anything from this. But yeah, look, 1-0. 1-0.

1:05:03Chris Stark: Okay, I'm going to go 2-1 then. Okay, before we go, lads, Paddy's boost. Each pick a leg of the crouch matchpob bet builder. The odds on that bet builder will then be boosted by 20%. Put on Paddy Power's special section of the website and the app. I'm going to go first. Player to score first. Someone who's done incredibly well since he's been there. Antoine Semenyo. Okay. I'm going to go for a player to be carded. John McGinn. Great. And a player to have two plus shots on target. I'm going Erling Haaland. Odds are correct at time recording. Please gamble responsibly. All right, lads. Listen, I will be back.

1:05:37Chris Stark: back stronger next week you know great to have Terry Butcher on a podcast today I am missing you guys I'll be back very soon enjoy yourself in regards to the family yeah regards to the family in regards to yours oh very quickly I met a lad in Box Park before the FA Cup final who said he's been trying to email in the podcast and and then he just showed me the email and I thought you boys need to see it because it's quite good so So I'll just read it to you very quickly before we go. He says, Crouchy Star considers the other week, myself and three of my mates decided to do the Otley Run. If you don't know what the Otley Run is, it's 15 plus pubs that you crawl through.

1:06:20It's two miles long, top of Headly all the way to Leeds. We've talked about it on the podcast before, haven't we, Pete? The catch is you have to do it in fancy dress. In honour of the podcast and the Respect the 4th campaign that you guys were running, we decided to dress up as referees. and they've sent pictures in. And then what seems to have happened on the Otley run is their next picture that they've got here is they've gone there, they've started working their way through the pubs. They've bumped into another group of people, one of which is dressed as Peter Crouch. Unbelievable. And so they've got these wonderful photos where these referees are carding a lad who's dressed up as you, Pete.

1:06:57And I just wanted to bring them to your attention. So I fired the pictures into the group and just thought I'd get your thoughts very quickly.

1:07:02Chris Stark: is looking at the pictures now, mate. Love every moment of it. Looks like a really fun afternoon out. Really pleased that they're respecting our campaign to May the 4th be with you. And yeah, the fact that they bumped into someone dressed as Peter Crouch. Every time I bump into these people on Stag Doos or various, you know, fancy dress, who are dressed up as me, there's always one real non-common denominator. the fact that there are incredibly lanky human beings that are called Crouchy in their friendship group just very quickly on that is this every once a month? the Artly Run? well you can do it whenever I'm just saying this I think we should give it a go we could give that a go Sid or we could create the Crouch Pod Run where there's pubs and you know them that you know them across London mainly.

1:08:02Chris Stark: We know. Where there's probably four or five we could do and it's a pod crawl. This is a brilliant idea. The other ones we've recorded in. That's such a good idea. It's brilliant. It's a really good idea and then what we could do is have behind the bar a picture of us in that pub. Maybe when we recorded the podcast or whatever it is. Maybe a little QR code or something you can scan and check in with it and then we'll get a list of names of people who complete the pubs. We'll look into this. This is good. So thank you for your email, Hanni. Nice to meet you. I think your name's Hanni. Nice to meet you in Box Park, which by the way was chaos before the FA Cup.

1:08:44I got hit by a stick of celery at one point, but I'd like to think it was an accident. I suspect it wasn't.

1:08:53Chris Stark: Oh my God. God knows where that's been. All right. That's the end of the podcast and we'll see you next week. See you, mate. Buying furniture for your business can be full of compromises, confusing choices, and little support. National Business Furniture is here to change all of that. We believe that every business deserves furniture that lasts, service that cares, and a partner who gets it at a budget that works. At National Business Furniture, that's our commitment to you. Find the right furniture for you and your team at National Business Furniture. Visit nbf.com and use promo code POTEN to save 10 % now.