Jermaine Pennant: Football’s Most MISUNDERSTOOD Player? — ADHD Took Me to a UCL Final

0:00This podcast is part of the Acast Creator Network. Hello and welcome to that Peter Crouch podcast. Me, Peter Crouch, Notorious S.I.D. Chris Stark are with me. As per usual, how are we? Really well. Really well. Yeah, dangerously well. Dangerously well. That's weird because that's not what you were saying just a minute ago because your weekend was pretty heavy. Happy birthday. Happy birthday. Thanks. I appreciate the birthday, love. It was good. 50th? 43. 43, sorry. 43. it was a four day celebration was it really? four day started Thursday the birthday was Sunday started Thursday had a great night at the pub that we obviously know Friday golf day you was there I was there a good golf day and we won it as well we had amazing scenes I didn't really contribute but we won the golf day Saturday kicked on and then finished it off with a nice day yesterday Sunday this year really were you steady yesterday because you looked remarkably well considering it was a four day bender yeah yesterday was probably the the tamest of days calmest yeah we went up and took the little girl up to up to Beaverbrook do a bit of skating a little go to be fair skating I've had little go well it is it's festive activities now when was the last time you were skating no no I can't do it I've retired I've officially hung up my skates yeah I've done it talking of Christmas really impressed what with your commitment to the elf ah yeah yeah yeah well obviously I'm really impressed I have very little to do with the elf don't I the elf turns up every day you know it puts itself into quite creative situations the kids find it in the morning it's the magic of Christmas these elves are magical what do you get up to this time but you're right my commitment being I get up very early for the radio I put like four-ish and I put a little thing on my Instagram of what the elf's been up to that's what you mean that's what I mean yeah yeah brilliant love it what was the option Not that any kids are listening to this.

2:01You never know. You never know. But yes, so it's hard to be that creative at four in the morning, but I do try. And also I whack up on Instagram just in case any parents need a bit of inspiration for their elves that might be visiting. Definitely helps, I think. But these elves, it's mad at some of the things they do, you know. Shitting cola bottles. Do they? Yeah, out on the piss. I've seen one that's been attached to a whisk and Barbie's watching. Obviously. That was it. Barbie's on a whisk and he's sat there like... There's been a couple of incidents in my house with Barbies. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah.

2:38Before the kids have woken up, thankfully. They've shown Abbey it beforehand. Oh, really? Yeah. It's outrageous, Southern Star. Okay. Thankfully in the morning they go, they're not quite as bad. That's it. That's it. But it is the season. it is the season isn't it and I've just actually just before this podcast I had half an hour so I managed to do all the Christmas shopping I've found a jewellery store just down the road here right you know where we get the wraps there's a jewellery shop next door and I've gone and bought the jewellery there so I think that has sorted me with my wife now so I'm absolutely buzzer I feel like a sense of freedom that that's been done just need to get a bit of lingerie and then we're flying for you it's got your birthday it's tricky it's a kind of it's a kind of thing that happens I think at Christmas I don't know why some men feel obliged to go buy lingerie I think they did it on Gavin Stacey once and I sort of thought oh that seems a quite nice Christmassy thing to do so I try and get involved in that awkward experience I would say well yeah I'll be honest with you I haven't ever done it I can't bring myself to do that but I you know like she's done bits and pieces you know the agent provocateur so she's obviously gifted a lot of the stuff so obviously you know it's all good really but is it not more the principle is it not more the principle of gifting it it's because if I the principle of gifting it I feel I feel slightly perverted in front of her mum around it or you know Christmas time like open this one and then she pulls it out try it on then no but it's not kids are all like it's a fucking it's not your dad you do it as a you do it as a secret present don't you oh okay like leave it upstairs or something yeah like a stocking a stocking yeah literally a stocking stocking in a stocking it's a stocking filler yeah a stocking filler what nobbling down on the stocking so get it on then I do find when you go lingerie shopping, though, I don't know when the last time you have seen it, but it strikes me as an activity you'd enjoy.

5:04But you see other fellas in there as well. And there's, there's this look that you give. That's always a very knowing, like we're, it's the one to you. But I don't feel like, I don't know if that's something I want to, I want to be involved in. yeah, I think you, I think you've got to be quite a brave man to stroll in. confidently into lingerie shop and say, ladies, you know, present me, is what I did. You've got to know, you've got to know what you're going in for. If you go in, if you go in blind and flappy. Yeah. It could be, it could be a horrendous experience. It can't get worse than that.

5:39Yeah. You'd have sweaty palms. It's like, I don't know, you're going in there. I don't know. I think, I think that's a difficult, but you know, you seem to be able to navigate it quite well. Yeah. You need to go in, you need to know your numbers and you need to enjoy it. talk with a bit of authority and and um it's it's for me it's just a very unique special christmas time thing and when you catch the eye of the other fellow that's in now i always think that's just a wonderful it's a wonderful it's like i think that like with women for instance like if they were buying as calvin clines or something you know they wouldn't be insane they just would not have an issue with that i don't know i just don't want to be perusing i think women's underwear wearing men's underwear.

6:16Picking briefs up and getting caught. You know, if someone saw me doing that, look at this statement. For me, it's a bit like the difference between rugby union and rugby league or, you know, baller league. It's like it's tennis, same sort of sport, but it's very different. My thing with the Calvin Clines is, you know, I was only made aware recently that Calvin Clines are sort of old geezer, isn't it? You assume it's the torso you see on the box and it's not. So we're all rolling around in these Calvin Clines, but it's old man pants. Yeah, because obviously the young lads I've seen recently, quite often wearing baggy ones.

6:51Baggy briefs. Baggy briefs are back in, aren't they? Yeah, back in, aren't they? You're a sloggy fellow though, aren't you? No, we're sloggies when we played football. It was a standard sloggy experience for just the pants that were provided. We've been through this on the podcast before. Pants were provided for us. At Christmas, were they put in a box with the laces? No. Get back in the box. No, I wasn't. We should consider, you know, we're always entrepreneurial in this sense, but like a podcast lingerie for passing the pod would be fantastic, especially after so many emails we've had lately, you know.

7:25Mr Corner or Mr and Mrs Corner, do you remember that? Well, he said he was going to throw a corner in the box for the rest of his life. Yeah. Corner boxes, though. I mean, it's definitely one we should explore. Great way to pass the pod. Anyway, like the fumes coming from this paint. Can we touch on this paint? yeah that was something I wanted to bring to our attention go for it please no just walking into to where we record the pub in the Chumbawamba there is a communal area downstairs that has been painted a worse shade of Tancock I think than the one we actually chose and I have to say whoever chose to paint in that colour needs to look at himself the workmanship that's gone into it there's paint fucking everywhere there's three floors it's a diabolical paint the smell I mean the warning I went to the toilet just fucking the handle's got paint all over it where people have just gone in there I hate to moan but he's got it I first looked at it I was like what the f*** he's got it all over the handle all over the handle on both sides both sides yeah on a lot of them so he's almost gone round with a brush and gone like on the handle opened it up gone on the other side as well I just feel like he's on a day rate and he's doing one day only whether it's fucking a three day job or not mate he's high the fumes are I mean we're getting him through the floor here I need to know the logic behind the colour there's got to be some kind of I don't know psychological feel good factor or something but it's not I genuinely thought we were trying Tancock out it's weird but it is it's like a mix of all three of our Tancock shades phenomenal stuff three floors of it in this office I just want to get into the results please we discussed this earlier and obviously, Chris, you're flapping with what's going on this week.

9:12Obviously, Chelsea beat Everton 2-0, Burnley lost to Fulham in a great game, and City dominated Palace. But I got a correct score, which is a massive three-pointer for me in the Chelsea game. I also got Burnley and Palace right. Sid's got the three points, and Chris, you've got none, which leaves Chris languishing on 31. I'm on 35, and Sid, you're flying on 41. You were obviously nervous, Chris, and I remember you discussing about maybe we try and do things to try and boost you up the league and you were looking at SIDS as if that was the problem. This is the only league in world football that no one gives a shit about who ever wins it.

9:50It's true. No one's ever. If you look back at the three leagues we've had so far, can you tell me who lost? No. Yes. Can you tell me who won them? No. No, you're right. You're so right because this game isn't about winning, it's about losing. Not losing. It's been punished for losing rather than rewarded for winning. So actually in the current league, I only need to try and get ahead of you, Pete. That's my only aim. That's four points. But the fact there's a 10 point gap, because you want to be close enough that, you know, we put you into this relegation thing as well. But I mean, I weren't daft enough to say Chelsea 2 Everton.

10:27I don't know what I was thinking. Honestly, the scores I predicted, I've got a Palace win. There's a shambles all round. Burnley win I don't know I mean Burnley did you see any of that game yeah it was an amazing game amazing game but they were shit yeah for large parts of it yeah poor did you put on the first goal yeah all of them all of them did you put on our group message I'm really regretting my predictions I think I sort of knew when Crouchy's first three points came in yeah and then I went onto Instagram to see oh what's my scores again because we put them on Instagram if you ever want to see them make sure you're following the pod on there I went on and all the comments were like just insults towards me Christianry's back that's fine because you know that's fine because that's yeah I've gone a bit Christianry there but the wrong way yeah well you're totally wrong way it's just a bad set of scores this week I mean zero points I mean that's almost harder to do than get at least one or two no it is actually I went rogue a couple of weeks ago and really regretted it I remember going for a few I thought yeah this could happen and it just did well the nil-nil was one and I followed two yeah you went with nil-nil didn't you but you actually got the draw so just to clarify lads I think a lot we did fuck up the scores there a tiny tiny bit Chris had absolutely no points Sid you did have two it wasn't three points yeah and I still get the five points so Sid you're on 40 yeah I'm on 35 five and Chris you're on 31 so it's nine points between top and bottom and not ten but okay also these points do they do matter lads what points mean prizes points and forfeits and forfeits yeah not prizes as they are in our league no prizes whatsoever only forfeits zero a couple of headlines from football this weekend anything that particularly grabbed you in the weekend just gone well I I could see K's performance I thought was brilliant just he has to start every game now I think that's number one number two really pleased for Sunderland our pod team of choice I actually don't dislike Newcastle I really like Newcastle but I just feel like Sunderland are just performing really well aren't they little bit of shithouse did you see it the picture but they broke that down and said there was kind of similar when the game before when Newcastle won 3-0 yeah so when Newcastle won at Sunderland yeah and done the picture then I suppose it's one of them is it like the comms guy is just waiting and hoping that they cling onto that one nil and as soon as that whistle goes he knows he can get on there and go everyone get together let's do a picture the pick yeah but yeah they're going from strength to strength aren't they they are they really are really good what about Wolves nearly hung on there I mean they were getting bombarded weren't they yeah I just don't see a way out for them I mean it it's just a bit too far adrift aren't they really tough there's four teams I think at the bottom there's a few teams not entirely out of it but the three that are in there are good yeah Leeds got a result didn't they yeah okay okay well moving on to what we're doing over the Christmas period it's a slight break from the league but something a little bit exciting well yeah because the Paddy Power World Starks Championships are underway at the moment we're excited because we're where we're going this week aren't we Merry Dartsmas everyone yeah for me it looks better than normal I would say I don't know if it gets better every year or I get excited around this year and I forget how much I got excited or I'm just really excited I don't know what I am I'm a bit of everything yeah I am slight issue that I've got is you've have you put the darts for the evening session yeah it's a Thursday evening I'm so sorry I'm off at four I know I don't know I don't know about you guys but I've noticed I feel I feel as though it's more fancy dress from what I've seen so far yeah I don't know if you want to go as fancy dress but it looks as though if you don't you know we're boring boring tables yeah yeah sorry you see I think this is where we actually go wrong dare I say it because it is an amazing experience don't get me wrong on the boring boring tables and I've done both I've been there pointing at the boring boring tables and I've been on the boring boring tables taking cards out my wallet turning round to the crowd I've seen both sides the fancy dress side is good that's life but being on the boring boring tables one of the boring boring things they do on the boring boring tables is they make you wear boring boring clothes you're not allowed to do fancy dress yeah been thinking that the repercussions of this are not so bad for me but way worse for you and even worse for you Crouchy which is when they stand to the left of your clock what you're who you are or what you're there for they start chanting at you and it's just pint after pint after pint and I on a personal level I've got work in the morning so it's going to be it's going to be challenging yeah it will be yeah so please tune in to Chris on Capital Radio on Friday what day is it?

15:42I can't remember exactly what the date but we'll let the team know on our socials let everyone know on our socials to listen out for how you perform on the Friday but anyway yeah we thought we'd switch it up for the podcast because the darts is on and because the the football schedule over Christmas goes mad is that we're going to switch up the league a little bit and points are going to be done in a different way. Yeah, right. Part of Paddy Power's even bigger 180 campaign in partnership with Prostate Cancer UK, they're giving one fan the chance to go to the World Darts Championship final and throw nine darts at the Ali Pally on stage.

16:14If they hit 180 or more, they win 180 grand. Right, sounds easy, that, right, nine darts. It's only 180 with nine darts. They win 100. Do we believe that we can get 180 with nine darts. Yeah, this is their darts of destiny competition that they're doing. Absolutely brilliant. So when the lads first told me about this, I was thinking nine darts to get 180. To me, that just seems more than achievable, especially if that's going to win you, say, 180 grand off it. Yeah. We have had a little practice. We're going to be doing it for points in our league, we should say. Five points, right? Because the fixtures over the course of the Christmas period and we're dotted around all over the place, it's difficult to get in the chumbawamba and do the games.

16:56we're going to do the darts of destiny so just to clarify I am going to throw a nine darter one week you're going to do one week you'll do another week I think we should draw it out of a hat who goes first and the winner the accumulative most points the most points per person will get five points towards the league yeah like him okay so switch just for this Christmas period it's just to switch it up because you know we can't we can't do enough podcast for the amount of fixtures that there are just a little switcheroo for Christmas and of course if you want to get involved with the Darts of Destiny the free entry via www.dartsofdestiny.com the winner is selected at random UK and Ireland only enter before January 1st 2026 eligibility and T's and C's apply 18 plus please go on responsibly if you've got a dartboard in your house or if you've got or if you go to a local in the dartboard 100 9 darts for 180 so it's 9 darts so you need 20 a dart on average but you hit a treble you haven't got do you know what I mean you're well ahead you're cruising but we have had a little practice there and it's harder than you think alright okay so let's see who comes on top

18:11so hello and welcome to the first Pally Powered Darts of Destiny we're in a drawer it feels weird standing up doesn't it no I don't like it I don't like it either you know when they say a drawer you out of a hat no one's ever done this don't do this anyone this is generally drawn out of a hat is this your hat Sam it's a Ross hat there might be some old dandruff and bits of gingery blonde hair in there so we're going to pick out who we're going to pick out who goes first yes yes Darts of Destiny caused nine darts to get 180 when Paddy Power do this at the World Darts Championships for us it's going to be one of us does it every week for the next three weeks whoever gets the highest score gets five points in the league.

18:54Yes. Okay. Do you want to pick? Don't look, please. The first person to take it on this week, Sid. Don't look. Sid, you do it. You do one, please. Yeah, go on. I've got to do the... Yep.

19:08Chris. Me. Chris is up. Me to go first. So first up and this week is you, Chris. It's going to be me. Do you want to draw the other two weeks? Yeah. Do you want to move them around because I don't want any cheating shots. Move them around and then I'll look again. I'll go again because I did see your name on the first one, yeah. I won't look. See it, done. Hand in, please, Peter. Thank you.

19:32Crouchy will be second. Okay. Just to confirm that the draw is fair, will you please confirm? Just to confirm, there is SIDS. Okay. Me, then Crouchy, then SIDS. Next three weeks, whoever gets the highest score gets five points in the league. Nine darts. Darts of destiny. Here we go. Are you ready? Yes. Ladies and gentlemen, let's play darts.

19:5919. That's good. Oops, sorry. And three. 41. 41. That's, Chris, that seems like it was a calculated three darts. You're going for 19. Is that your process? You hit the 19 twice there. It was good. Well done. Clever. Three. Oh, what's that? Twelve. And treble seven. Plus 21. Chris, you require 103. What a series. I can know. I've never seen him like this in my life. Look at this.

20:45Eight.

20:48No score. treble 7 treble 7 again 21 106 106 in total yes total that's not bad that is I think that's okay that's good that is good anything over over 100 because remember we're going for the 180s aren't we but really it's to get the most yeah yeah yeah just don't want to lose again don't lose

21:16right little bit of admin for you guys if you are enjoying this top quality content. If you like a de goods, then make sure that you hit subscribe right now. Okay? We're trying to gather an army here. First thing you can do to be part of this podcast is hit subscribe. Do it now. Right, ladies and gentlemen, we've got Jermaine Pennant with us. Not over Judas, it feels, isn't it? Yeah. You should have been on a long time ago. Do you know what? I think you did. And I said, yeah, yeah. And the invite never came. I thought you'd been on. I was certain you'd been on. That's what I mean. Thought I'd been on the lot.

21:47Pied me off. No, you should have well been on by now. So apologies for that. No, it's fine. How's it going? What are you up to at the moment? It's going quite well. Obviously, Talk Sport, them, and me and JJ sorted our podcast called The Wild Cards. We'll talk football and FPL. I think we're in the 17th episode now, 16th. So it's going well. Enjoying it? Keeping busy, yeah. And also sorting out a, well, in the process of developing an app for ADHD and everyone else as well. But it's, you know, it helps them rather than all these tasks and the biz in the mind. It just keeps it simple. And it doesn't like tell them all reminder.

22:34It shows them one task at a time. Because obviously our brain, because I've got it, we get overloaded and then we forget about it. And then we don't do it. Where this will sort everything out for you. It's like your personal AI, PA AI. So anything you want to say, it will do, and it will show you one task at a time. That's amazing. And you turn this idea into an app. Yes. That's amazing. Yeah. So is this something that you've always been aware that you have, or is this something that's been established further on in your life? It was established further on, because I got tested when I was about 37.

23:08And I said, yeah, mate, you're, basically said, yeah, you're fully HD up. you is that how you said it exactly like that no it was more professional it was a more professional just to let you know you're fully HD HD so

23:31and then it kind of like made sense of all my past history and so okay yeah it kind of made sense when did that diagnosis come Ben because I suppose you probably had like through the you've seen days football wise, you know, you just maybe a little bit different or, you know, or feel a little bit different, but couldn't put your finger on why. Exactly that. And we just sort of thought, you know, we've all played together. We've all shared a dress room. We just thought that's just pain. It's just a bit of a character. And I just kind of rolled with it. So when you get into, you know, the important years of your life where you've got to try and be a bit more sensible and you think, yeah, you're pushing the limits here, son.

24:08You're making big mistakes here. continuously and then you should start asking questions and then obviously we got tested and yeah what what made you want to kind of find out what what it was at that point then because if up to now if up to then it's been sort of a character of your success clearly yeah then what what was it that made you want to go listen as it's pros and as it's cons and i think it was more the destruction that it can lead to with the decision making the not caring about consequences and all you deal with it and not dealing with tasks and everything building up um and it was going around in circles in the spirals so i thought well i think yeah maybe you know when i was on my low it's just maybe speed someone and find out what is the root cause of the same mistakes yeah you You talk about those, Penn, right?

25:02When people come to me and maybe talk about you or say anything about you, I've spoken to Jermaine JJ about this as well. I consider your career as one of the biggest success stories in football. Considering where you kind of came from, you told me before, where you've grown up, what you've had to come through. And then when people say, oh, look at him, he's making these mistakes and he's done this, he's done that. you say yeah but like look what he's done in a positive way like how he's done it kind of yourself right for me I'd look at it as a positive story rather than a negative one and yeah you've admitted yourself you've made mistakes along the way and you're trying to work out why you've done those mistakes but you played in Champions League finals right you've won things you've scored goals you've played you know at the top level and you're a good human being right so in my opinion it's a real success no but that's how I kind of look at it I don't beat myself too much on the lows and the downs and what could have been.

26:03I look at the go, do you know what? You had zero structure. You had zero support. You've been through a lot. You had childhood trauma. To get where you got and achieved, for me, it easily could have gone west. And I couldn't have even never made a professional footballer. Never mind play at the teams that I did in, in competitions that I did. So yeah, I look at it as in, do you know what? You should be proud of what you achieved from what you had to go through and what you did go through. Yeah. I mean, I can vouch for all of that. Cause I first met Pennant when we was at 15. Yeah. We go on to it obviously with the football stories.

26:47Yeah. So, um, yeah. When he signed for Arsenal. So Liam Brady was head of Arsenal, right? Head of the Academy. me so we were about 15 15 16 15 it must have been and Liam Brady's gone listen we're signing this super kid right he's coming from Nottingham he's got a bit he's had a bit of a tough upbringing need you look after him right just because I was one of the probably one of the more I mean I couldn't even look after myself at 16 15 and he's gone just try and just you know just keep an eye on him after a week man I knew he was fully ADA

27:26I was like I've got to let him go he needs to he needs to get I've got to let him flock away from the nest wow he'd come in like Tasmanian devil man he'd ripped up the gap but how how is that like when you're you're 15 or whatever playing first team football at Notts County right and as you said no real structure no guidance at that time does someone just put you in London and go right you crack on then Steve should really look after you let's crack on was there any there must have been some help for you more or less that was it it was you shipped off from back home and what I was used to in London and I was put into Diggs forgot the family they would look after you you go training and that was it you left your own devices and build yourself up and I used to go back home like every weekend because I was obviously a bit homesick until I started getting you know used to the lads and then we started to build friendships and then I'd stay down more often.

28:24But again, it was rebuilding all, again, new friends, new life, London, different kind of culture to what I was used to. So yeah, it was literally start from scratch with no really family backing, literally left to my own devices and people around me. And that is all on top of being most expensive, like people that don't know, Penham was the most expensive teenager at the time, wasn't it? two million, like, I should put you for two million, two million quid from Notts County. It's like, it's mad to think, like, there you go. I know, yeah. Get on the youth team, I mean, and just sort of get amongst it.

29:00And obviously, obviously fast track to the first thing very quickly, just because the ability that you had, but frightening really to just, the scope that was on you at the time, because it was massive. It was like, obviously there was stuff in the papers, wasn't there? Like throughout when you was there about, obviously your dad and like your, your background, but then also your football, footballing side of it as well. So for you to comprehend and judge all that as well, to try and play football, it must have been fucking tough. But that's when the ADHD kicks in. As in, that's when the defense mechanism comes up.

29:31It gives you a, it doesn't let your emotions, you just push it to a side. That's how I dealt with all my trauma when I was a kid. I wouldn't let it fester. I wouldn't let it get me. I would literally, okay, think about something else. Then I would chase something. What is it? this football that's what would keep my mind busy rather than focusing on what all the negative is because I wouldn't be able to handle it because of the trauma that I suffered as a child So did football really help you to kind of to get away from when you we keep mentioning the trauma but you know the difficult times you're going through going to play football would that free your mind up?

30:08That was my only thing I didn't have I said a good family network I didn't have you know go oh I'm not mum or dad and you know and how they look after there. I didn't have that. The only thing I had was football. Um, and that was from a young age. I'd be out to all hours when I was about nine or 10. Um, people would knock on me. My dad would say I've not seen him since yesterday. I'd have been out playing football and I'd probably send up staying at our friends. Um, that's all I knew. Just football. Um, and JJ's got a story that he tried to come and knock me one day to, to go play for a local team.

30:39My dad said, my dad said, I don't know where he is. Um, and they had to go searching for me and they saw me with my boots and that was a day later. I remember that story. I remember hearing it from Jermaine as well. And that's when, you know, fast forward, when you're in Athens, I was with you in the Champions League final and for me, you were the best player on the pitch, right? That little boy that's just, you know, he's walking around the estate on his own, gets picked up by Jermaine and obviously, I imagine you owe him a lot for being there as well, you know, for you. And then, you know, that little boy fast forward is playing there.

31:10That's why I think when people say, oh, you know, he's done this and that, I go, no, do you know what? come from this and he's done that um it's a credit to you really no no no i appreciate it and like i said you always got to look at the positives and we all could probably do things better and we all have regrets um but i look at it as in yeah i could have but i also got on a Sunday i had ADHD that i didn't know that was causing havoc in my life you know undiagnosed which if people who got it can you know understand and share where i'm coming from um but at the same time as well to to use my ability to focus and get where I wanted to get to.

31:46Is it going to look in as a, you know? I think it's also not just people who necessarily know that they've got it, but always what fascinates me about this podcast is people who are listening who will resonate with some stuff that you're saying today and then might think they might be, what age did you say you were when you did this? Like 35, 36? 37, yeah. You might be listening. You might even have questions about your own, your own self and then go and decide to go and get this looked into and you know it is amazing how these conversations can lead to people actually going and doing something for themselves as well so thank you for sharing with it on a footballing side then what was it like for you when you turned up at Arsenal for the first time I was excited I was excited because it was obviously you know you're coming from North Carolina to a team like Arsenal in that era you know Ian Wright and the Nauka and then Tiran Ray all those players just like I can't wait to be amongst it and that youth kind of era that youth team was remarkable so I thought alright I'm a part of something special here so yeah it was amazing and I just really couldn't wait to start and was he like golden boy or something why were you the sensible one I wasn't golden boy I was like parched I was not parched youth parched player I was not parched no way we had a really good youth team we had a really good group and we meet up still to this day now but the thing with Pennant is right his talent was a joke right when he was young he used to train like with his laces undone and the most annoying thing would be like we'd be out there and we're like like it's hard for us like it's just natural for him and we're training it'd just be sort of going through the motions and then like Don Howe would be our coach and then as soon as Wenger would come over for like the last 10 minutes just to keep an eye on thing he would just turn it on like that and like literally you could just see arson at the side of the pitch just like clapping his hands like like you've got to save that energy you know what chance have we got yeah yeah but he was class ABS breaks could stop absolutely he could sprint and just go bang stop straight away best cross for the ball as well on the like obviously set a few of your goals up oh god yeah same thing we came through kind of England together he was a bit younger than me but well under 18 under 21s probably and obviously played Portsmouth together Stoke and Liverpool we kind of like we followed each other around a bit which was good for me because the delivery was perfect when I had him and Glenn Johnson on the right hand side it was a dream for me absolute dream one of the best crossers Do you remember playing with Crouchy for the first time?

34:21Oh I loved it yeah I loved it half the time I didn't even have to look or know I'd ever write either think it back back stick or whip one and he's winning it and yeah made my job easy yeah loved it I remember some of those there was one time I was remembering this one where I can't remember why you had it but you had you had your phone in the sock do you remember this it was England it was England bearing in mind we're playing for I think it was England under 21s he's obviously done it for a bit of fun but we're pinging the balls out right and left and I can't remember who was on the left but he was down the right anyway we'd fizz it out and then we'd all get in the box like together and he'd whip one in we'd score it and look back and he he just got his phone out his sock got a text you text someone back and then put it back in his sock in his sock I've never seen this before in my life talk me through that yeah it was a good that was his thing it was just the ADHD stuff it was just you just do mad stuff dopamine you always must have been for the lads it was it was always for the banner as well yeah and you know I didn't sometimes I didn't set things serious as I should have and I always liked to joke and have a giggle be like the clown yeah I do remember that it was like the Nokia and it went bing bing in the sock playing snakes after just like instead of a shin pad then it was hidden away no just a side we had like these tight socks it wouldn't fall out it was only small back then so yeah not my proudest moment but it was funny looking back on it he just broke through obviously Arsenal he was the one that was sort of the one that we inspired to he was like our age group that like got into the first team was there anyone in like looking back now in the first team that tried to sort of harness you or put you like right because they would have seen because you like it's right like you was like the joker you as a character your ability was a joke but they would have obviously seen it from experience point of view to go no listen you need to stop maybe start doing this and this and he obviously didn't listen yeah i think that the the closer one to that was probably ash at the time Yeah.

36:34Ash, Patrick, you know, he would always come down on you. He was tough. Yeah. Doesn't matter how young you were, how good you were, he would, you know, would let you know if you're not pulling your weight. So it's probably those two really are the main ones. But there's only so much people can do and say, you know, your teammates. They've got their own stuff to think about and worry about. Yeah. But it was just, again, when I was in that frame of mind, when I wasn't playing when I was in the first team I wasn't playing that's when I just I fall off the rails I'm not in a team and I can't play football my LHD needs to go and find that dopamine hit otherwise I struggle internally so it will be if that's going out if that's partying if that's girl whatever it was then you know so I needed to play football where was the best spell you had Penn you had not to count you burst on the scene I played with a lad Sean Derry Ian Barrowclough Sam Adelis would have been a manager he was a manager Steve Finnam was there in a decent side in Knox County I remember it well because I had a few friends there and then obviously going to our store I mean you know you got Hadrick on your debut which is insane Watford as well Watford I mean they're some of my happiest memories remember watching you play Leeds yeah Portsmouth Stoke always remember you put Helgerson in for this goal and we were on an FA Cup run Timmy said it was West Brom and being in the rookery when you put this it was perfect the whole game was perfect it's my biggest memories losing my watch in the crowd like it must have been cheaper I just threw it never saw that again no it was it was the best FA Cup run when you were Watford at that time like was it happy memories at some of these places yeah where was your best because I'm playing and I'm important so that's where it what matters I would say my best years It's always like the first part of it When I go to a club So for me the first part of my Liverpool stint That first Because I played almost every game the first year Brilliant A Champions League season And joining my boyhood club Was a dream come true And my first stint at Birmingham Well I only played the one Because then I moved to Liverpool And my first and a half stint at Stoke You know when we played in Europe When we got into Europe And Those First stints Were like my Most memorable And happiest Why When you say first in So what Did you get bored No because Something would happen Where I'd fall out With the manager Like I said I would I would just need To chase something You know I would do something stupid Not because I was It just So it's when you're in and out The team basically If you're not playing regularly Yeah I'm not using ADHD As an excuse But you do things you don't think about the consequence you don't think about the impact it's going to have you do and then you deal with it and then you whatever comes comes of it what was the best way that managers responded to that Steve Bruce oh really that was he knew you know that something was amiss but he wouldn't punish me of the thing that I do best and I always reward him so sometimes you know I'll be in trouble rather than say right Like, that's it, you're done.

39:59You're not going to play for me again. He will do the opposite. And until I don't perform, then I'll be out of the team. And on the back of that, that was probably one of my best seasons. That got me my move. So it's just about the manager needs to know how to manage me. Not everyone likes a turn off. Some people, some players who, like I said, who struggle from tough backgrounds, may need a arm around their shoulder and say, listen, you know, is everything all right? Like a dad figure. and that's what he was to me and that's what I kind of craved I craved that attention that family that you know that bond and Steve Bruce was that you know to this day I call him like a stepdad he is good Steve Bruce as well good manager so I think the difference of that was probably Rafa right I think oh that's totally different yeah so night and day hard to yeah I mean very good manager you know class act but obviously I was there with you great at first but difficult by the end it was hard for you right because I suppose he wouldn't put your arm around your shoulder he wouldn't give you any time you never knew where you stood with him and I think it doesn't do you it's the same for every player in the club absolutely I think like I said he's a great good manager a tactical knows when to bring subs on and formations to play against opposition but as a man manager I think it was probably one of the worst you'd try and have a conversation with him but it wasn't going nowhere you'd speak here for 20 minutes and you'd walk away thinking I actually don't still know what the answer you'd have a great game it'll tell you your negatives you know you could come off and get man of the match but go you should have done this you should have done that rather than go well done more of that someone like me would be like yeah rather than going nah well you know look you should run back here a bit more you know you wouldn't know where you stand with him sometimes I'm thinking why am I not even playing today no disrespect to a Dirk Calc he was a workaholic and he scored goals but he would put some people out there and I'm thinking surely I should be playing but he wouldn't tell you why it will just leave you in the dark so where where was you getting that from so was you getting that from Stevie or someone else that was maybe having a quiet world with you just to sort of balance it off because if you was just not getting it from the manager and you just being left in the wilderness sometimes you must have been getting that bit of confidence from somewhere I think everyone felt it though it's like some people react to it some people did it but that was Rafa's way and I think when you look at Stevie's performances under Rafa he was the type of person like he never said well I watch Stevie play certain games you'd be like oh my god it's the best performance I've ever seen right Rafa would tell him he didn't use his left foot on this one pass and you go like why did you use the outside of your right there he gave that away and he'd be like well he's got the best outside the right I've ever seen in my life like he would put that's genuinely what he would do and I think Stevie the way he is as a character is like I'm going to fucking show you you know how fucking dare you so the next game would be even better he'd be like you know just push him whereas some people people need a well done.

42:56I did. I needed a well done. I remember going away with England, scoring, I think, three goals in two games. I came back, I was on the bench for three games because he was like, he didn't want me to get carried away. I think there's some managers going, I'll play him, he's hot. Some managers are like, no. His way of dealing with it, I think, was a little bit to keep you... Very orthodox. Put it that way. But it'd be the same with all the players. Everyone. He wouldn't adjust his personality to... Yeah, I think he was the manager. he saw himself as the manager and no one was above that he was very stubborn even with his coaching staff you know they would say look maybe let's do this or do that he would have no it's my way or the I way it was very straight down the line but you know I still have massive respect for him like to sign me for the club in general as well and obviously I've had some of the best times of my life at the club as you did I mean what what were your lasting memories of Liverpool listen I my lasting memories is your boots I knew you were going to bring this up that's my honestly this is one of my highlights seriously it's genuinely one of the funniest things and he still to this day when he walked in today he called me Ooch and if you wondered Ryan why is he calling him Ooch?

44:09he's always called me I'm going to explain so we had we used to have sponsored so we'd get boots sent to us and he was obviously Puma and they sent him this pair of boots with green like grass like filtered grass I said to the puma, I said, look, I said, I don't think this is me, you know. I said, well, send them anyway. Well, when I said I got ripped. Him and Bellamy, that's really disgusting. So what one thought, it had like C-R-O and the other thought U-C-H, right? So we looked at it and went, pooch. I'd be like bear in mind it's 2005 6, 7 it's been 20 years deep right he's just walked in and called me still now and I think if I saw Craig Bellamy now as well he'd call me these two they just couldn't believe it and they ripped me non-stop and I was like at first I remember it was like you know Beck's he had Brooklyn on his boots and stuff like that I didn't have any kids so everyone's doing it now like cack has got you know jesus on his boots and stuff you know i think you should do it right but i say i'm not any kids i'd say what are you gonna do put my dog on it or something so what we'll do we'll do crow down one end and ooch down

45:36in the changing room there was it was you imagine i pulled them out of the box it was It was Bella's, I think me, and then Crouchy, just like literally next to each other. And he brought these out of the box. And me and Bella's looked at me like this. First of all, it was those old green, so they're that imprint of grass. They were called the unseen. What if they were camouflage on your feet? So they were camouflage, you couldn't see your feet? How would you get a ball if you couldn't see your feet? Honestly, me and Bella's was dying. that's Corny Mooch I always kept calling him Mooch it could be the crow they tried a few out on me it was you know crow, crooch yeah ooch and now I swear they're hardly unseen see there's pictures of cross on them they're the one yeah yeah that's it that's them they put crow down one side and ooch down the other and unfortunately I just said no to them I said I couldn't I went into a world cup I was supposed to wear those and I I mean I got the ooch just destroyed me we can't get some mate we need some in the bar I've got a feeling I might well have the oochers at home a signed pair of oochers R9 you've got R9s and you've got oochers nice and real yeah it was so that is my memory and obviously our first year was unbelievable I think we came second that year as well yeah we finished second and I thought we were so close to kicking on Champions League just up the back of East Ends ball yeah Champions League in Athens I thought we should have what do you make of that I felt we should have won that game we should have won that game I think he got the selection a little bit wrong we was all scratching our head why he wasn't we played five midfield didn't I know Dirk was up front on his own yeah yeah I think even if it wasn't me we still had Fowler we had Bellamy and myself on the bench I think it was it felt like that team was older than the 2005 one so he just played one of them I think Dirk definitely in behind but I just don't would it packing the midfielders you know who am I to argue Rafa but yeah I felt like we were there it was there for the taking definitely with the better team and there as well so yeah that first thing all those members I've just shared was yeah that will always stay with me with Liverpool 100 % pleased to have played for the club as well like you know it's such a special club isn't it it's a magnificent club it's not just a club it's like a it's like a family you know if you're a red you and you stay a red and they they still respect you and yeah it's the history everything about Liverpool is special especially if you're fun as well did you feel belonging there did you feel like you know you talk about the difference between being the kid as you were saying picked up and then getting getting further down the line to where you were did the club give you a sense of belonging there yeah of course like that again that club always looks after you and I always felt I belong there and you know I always wanted to perform well and I thought I did especially like I said that first season and I got a stress fracture, which put me out.

48:42Then I kind of rushed back and things just went like kind of downhill from there. But I always, I never looked at that club thinking, I don't belong here or I dislike it or I'm not getting along with everyone. It was all that was amazing. It was just about, you know, kind of towards the middle and the end falling out with the manager, not seeing eye to eye. Cause you always talk about this, like almost blooding in at Liverpool where you turn up and you get found out. If you're not good enough, you get found out really really quickly in the first training session absolutely Akronberg was in Hong Kong and I think we just signed Lucas Leiva and at the start I was like this is not Brazilian he's definitely not Brazilian because he was getting kind of far and out I was like when you come to Liverpool and you got a midfielder you look at Stevie G and the players that we had in Xavi and then all of a sudden we got this Brazilian the midfield was Alonso Mascarano Sissoko and Gerrard yeah and then we're saying it's like Lucas Leiva I'm thinking Brazilian oh it's going to be alright but yeah it worked out well but at the initial period I was like he's a fake you know what fair play to him though like I remember when he first arrived he was he was in a difficult place wasn't he yeah and yeah at times he didn't look like he was a Liverpool player and then he really did turn that round like credit to him and ended up having a real good like the fans loved him and he turned that round massively yeah absolutely absolutely at one point I thought yeah he's just going to be another one of those you know kind of massive failed signings but he stuck to it grinded it out got stronger got used to the physicality and turned up to be an important player and there were so many players that didn't know when they turned up like Carmen and they'd be written off in the first training session which was ruthless I remember you saying people try to impress Stevie or Caron more than written off that way yeah equally they'd be tested in them sessions as well you were saying Stevie will throw balls at them yeah without doubt I mean he he was a good enough player, he was a comfortable enough player to do with that straight away.

50:41Yeah. Did you go from Birmingham to Liverpool? Yes. Was there, well, obviously at Birmingham you were flying and you could have, I'm assuming there was probably other clubs maybe involved as well. Could you have gone somewhere else, like in terms of like Madrid or somewhere else, or was it when, because you said Liverpool boyhood club, or was it when you knew Liverpool was serious? Before Liverpool, it was Everton, yeah. when I joined on loan Arsenal was doing a deal I think with with Everton or agreed and David Moyes and this agent at the time said look you know there's a deal there for you but it's it's Everton if you ever want to play for Liverpool you're going to have to scratch that off the card and I was like ah forget that then let's go to Birmingham let's just go on loan let's have a solid season let's see see what comes up my dream was always one day to play for Liverpool yeah so what was I like then and the windfall come in?

51:37Oh, it was, it was unreal because Birmingham, we got relegated that season. Yeah. And then we was in training and all the boys, David Dunn, Henry Lesky, you know, all those were there and coach came out and said, you need, got a phone call. Agent, automatically I think, oh God, what have I done wrong? What's, what's, what's coming out now? What's coming out now? What news is breaking? Yeah. Oh, what hell am I going to put myself in now? So I was like, okay, okay, very timid, ran over, got the phone call, ran straight back out. See you later boys, yeah, I'm off. These guys are preparing for a championship.

52:17I was like, yeah, go to Liverpool. There's a fuming, apart from Samuel. I was like, yeah, good club, you can enjoy it, you'll love it there. All the best mate. But David Dunne was like, you know, you know what Dunne is like, he was like, how the hell have you got there and I'm playing the championship? So were you concerned there? Because, because of where the club were? Because you'd taken that, not risk in doing that extra season, but buying yourself time to hopefully get that Liverpool move by the sounds of it. Were you then worried that because Birmingham were going down that that had somehow scuppered that move or did you sort of know that it was still in play?

52:48No, you always, when you have a team and you get relegated, you're always worried about, are you going to get back into the Premier League? Is someone going to come in for you or what's going to be your situation? but I always I got told a lot that Liverpool were watching me through the game sending scouts and back in the day it wasn't social media it was like the back of the paper you'd read the transfer news and I was in there a few times so I was just like to my agent look you've got to make it happen you know I threw my toys out of pram so I'm not speaking to you if you don't yeah I was a big baby and a month later I came back said oh look you can speak to me now what so you were sorry I'm fascinated by your world so you wouldn't speak to him until we'd got some sort of conversation going properly with Liverpool absolutely genuinely you didn't speak to him for a while I didn't speak to him for about two months yeah is that normal?

53:45get in my mood have you sort of yeah I was you know I was an idiot I said what's happening have you you know I said look it's up to the club you know I'm asking the questions boop boop boop boop boop yeah I know I know I know we're still friends though

54:02oh my god what what so talk us through your stoke time because we ended up playing with you there I remember you were quite instrumental I remember speaking to you I mean it was Woody yeah there was a Matthew Everton a few lads before I went there I spoke to you guys about what it was like and it was a good project wasn't it like it was really good like we had a good group of lads there got to an FA Cup final got into Europe you know it was special right we had a good group we had a system as well that just was solid and worked and everyone knew their their job um you had two whippets me and my everinson we had a solid defense you know um with short cross and hoof the fundamentals then we had crouching we had ken win so we had height and strength what you need for you know tony peter's kind of kind of side um yeah and i'm at my time there and everyone got on there was no you know bad apples there was a lot of characters we all got on and my style of football kind of you know winging get down the lines get the ball in yeah it was I mean obviously Tony Pudis called it the tip tap charlies right but it if you simplify that game we had two dogs in midfield with a John Waters who was a forward when we attacked and a midfielder when we defended his engine was that so you got like basically the three dogs in midfield you've got like a big striker me Ken Wynn Cameron Jerome Riccardo Fuller whoever it was Pennant at Everington and four centre-halves yeah basically one was a right back one was a left back and you just stop with those dogs that are just protecting give it all you do is get out to the full-back you whip it in that's what it says on the team it's not and it was just a formula that works it works so well if you look at the formula now in the Premier League you look at people looking at throw-ins at pieces we were the we were the goats at that we were the goats

56:05we started that Tony Pulis and Roy De Lape we started that game you know people would kick it out for a corner rather than a throw-in yeah we had Tony Pulis on obviously the other week on the pod how was your relationship with him was he good for you was it like a love-hate it was a bit of a love eight you know we got no bad feelings at all but at first it was great and you know Jay that's a family

56:37he was like I said he was as good at his job but he made some where we started going wrong and really falling out was when he was playing Ryan Shot in right wing yeah yeah yeah for me I lost it that's when And I went to speak to him and I said, Gaffer, what's going on here? Why are shots? Ultimately, he's a centre-back. Why are you putting him on the right? He's had a few good games. He's quick. And I was waiting for more. And he didn't. I was like, what? So you're playing him because he's quick. And he's got a bit of a throw on him. And after that, I was like, oh, mate. And then we've got a few, after training, he was running.

57:19And my head would just go. And I wouldn't run. and you know on a match day on a when we were in the net on the next day the 13 we were warming down I'd be out there doing running drills and I just nah man I just went a little bit I remember that yeah I remember it going a little bit because you had a really good relationship at the start and you just got a bit sour after you beat a few things and then obviously he's very he's not going to back down you're not going to back down and he did become a bit fretless didn't he but where did you go where did you go after Stoke that's when I went to Spain yeah yeah went to Zaragoza Zaragoza yeah what was that experience like do you know it was good you know weather was amazing struggled with the Spanish though got a translator who would kind of in training not in training but in the team meetings and all of that but lifestyle was okay football was very good doesn't matter who you play in they want to play football none of that launching it and getting put in row Z everyone's all about technical ability and so yeah I enjoyed it in that sense.

58:21So no, it was good. Did you try and learn languages? Oh yeah, I tried. Yeah, the translator was also my tutor as well. Right, okay. So he was teaching me Spanish, so I'd know like all the main stuff, like dos versus por favor, la quinta. There's a story that you just left a car at the airport. I did. Is that true? It is. That car at the airport thing, yeah, that went massive, right? It went huge. It's still to this day. Did you leave the car, did you go home and leave at the airport? absolutely there's a reason for it i just don't know i had to it was like on deadline day so august like end of august um and i was going to do a deal with stoke so there's no direct flights from zaragata so you i had to go to madrid so i drove to train station jumped on the train because it's a lot quicker than driving um then got to madrid station and then airport and then you know what it's like when you're coming back here it's difficult you're sorting out a house all this you know games come fucking fast you got to plan it on days off and then when i did get a day off i said i want to enjoy it i don't want to go back home start sorting out cars and all that back to spain so i'll next week month all right two months three months ended up about half a year this car just sitting there i think the police got a bit suspicious and like said oh you know what's this car doing and then the radio like the where it was registered to was registered to the club to me they contacted me i went oh yeah yeah i know it's there i'm just not at time to get back but the press got hold of it said that i totally forgot it i didn't know it was there they've called me up and i've gone oh yeah that's where it was yeah and it's got made out to be bigger than what it was okay i know sad how did you find that kind of the relationship with the press things like that what's happened over the years um i think i was an easy target for them and so they could probably get away with a lot of stuff that weren't true and all the people think that's definitely true that's something that would happen that's something that could happen um so they kind of targeted me because i was easy you know i would do a lot of stuff and they think yeah well we got him and yeah straight away they just labeled me bad boy not knowing anything about me because I'm far from a bad apple or anything like that.

1:00:43Darren, good guy, but just made some mistakes and they've labelled me this and then a part of me kind of played up to it as well. So, this is what everyone thinks I am. Here we go. And I kind of played up to it. Yeah, in a weird kind of way, does having that character almost become a bit of a, I don't know, like a USP in some way? Or a shield even. Yeah. For what you're actually feeling. Yeah, no, 100%. And when people start liking you for that, you think, oh, that's what they want. That's why they like me. Let me be this guy. Let me be this character. And then you think deep down, you know, oh, I'm just this little boy from Nottingham.

1:01:22Did that maybe hold you back with England? Obviously, I think you got about 10 caps or something with England. Well, 21s, I got like 20 plus caps. It's a senior team where it kind of stopped and I didn't get any caps. because of, you know, off the field, press kind of stories, which halted that. But obviously with the ability you had, you could have played for England, it was no doubt. Oh, no, 100%. I think all throughout U-Systems, I was one of the best players. And I've never doubted that if I, you know, kept on the straight and narrow and was more professional, I had a better attitude. there's no way I thought I couldn't have made a few appearances or a few caps for England 100 % but it's just you know it is what it is one of the regrets but out of the three dreams that I had to be a professional footballer to play for Liverpool to play for England I achieved two of them yeah which you have to remember was down to your personality traits and your characteristics can't just pick and choose the best bits and the worst bits and go it's like it's you as a person do you know what I mean yeah so you achieved these amazing things with it as well also the I've got to touch on one of my best times of my life which was Portsmouth oh I knew that was Corrine yeah yeah I genuinely the group of lads we had was for me sensational I think you were the same I think we just we enjoyed massive success on the pitch and huge fun off it I would say what did you make of that time Portsmouth was it no I think if you're looking at your time at a football club and as a player this is what you want the bond that you had with the lads every single one there was all sorts of characters coming into training was what are we going to find out today who's done what what band now what tricks us up someone's sleeve what's going to be planned midweek next week it was it was like you know birthday every weekend I was I was generally going to training with the biggest smile on my face every time so I know that I'm going to go in there with a group of lads that pull all in the same direction good players like we're winning games you know we finished we got to an FA Cup final just before I arrived then it was like sixth in the league I genuinely thought we were going to get in the Champions League the next season things obviously unraveled but the group of lads we had and the team we had that was a proper group you know when you go through the midfield of Montari and Diara Papa Bupadiop you know Sean Davis yourself out on the right you know Utaka we've got myself Defoe Distan Sol Campbell like the team you go through it's like so good but then the group that we had even the lads on the fringe were just pulling in the right direction you'd be barely laughing on a daily basis it seemed like that was the perfect time in your careers and life to be there like you was all at the perfect age wasn't you and everyone just got on you could see I remember playing against to you boys and being like I'd love to be in that dressing what was it so fun though is it just relaxed or content you know what we had a lot of we had a lot of French speaking players there as well and they were all great lads and they were like they were mucked in massively with a quite a British core group really and they you know I'd say Sylvain would probably lead the French lads if you like and maybe Sean Davis would probably lead the English lads and it was and we'd all got on great to give up so many African players obviously uh montari utaka kanu um brilliant lads right really good lads just got it wanted to be involved um and we just it was just it was just never a dull moment yeah even in training and when training is awful you're like oh my god do you want to go home this it wasn't it was always something going on fun to make it enjoyable you never wanted to leave the training round right nah he was here for hours called ourselves the a team i remember scoring um one goal wait Middlesbrough, I'm doing this celebration of the A-team.

1:05:33We got ourselves an A-team van. And we just gave it to the worst player in training on a bit of a Friday and people added to it. It was just a good time. Do you remember what you added to the van? No, I think it was already there. I didn't really add anything to the van. But I just remember, which is probably one of the wildest things, we just threw on on a Tuesday. so we had Wednesday off and someone called it on I don't know who it was probably him or Glenn Johnson said right boys tomorrow we're going to meet at our local but you come in fancy dress this is just a random Tuesday random Tuesday so we've got to turn up like remember that program where you'd go go in a room and you'd come out as a singer or someone else stars in your eyes so that's what it's like we all had to walk in the toilet come out in our outfit so it was just just random things like that.

1:06:30I remember you were a squirrel. No, I was a gingerbread man. Gingerbread. I remember you crossing the road. I was thinking... So I was like this. Couldn't, you know, I couldn't... Oh, it was brilliant. Fuck, I was a headless horseman. What killed me with the headless horseman? When I came out, I didn't realise that obviously your head is being held here by the headless horseman. And then obviously you've got a costume with a neck thing here. So bear in mind, if my head's here, I've got another two, three inches. so I'm basically seven foot four so then what I couldn't do was navigate I couldn't get out of the toilet so then my stars in your eyes moment I'll come out I couldn't get out of the toilet

1:07:12he's stuck I was stuck in there I was stuck in there the lads are laughing that much I was there for like five minutes trying to get out of the toilet but there was locals in there there was no one there was locals in there they must have been thinking what on earth is going on why is Carnot dressed as a oh brilliant oh well good times good times but you're enjoying it now son so you're doing a bit of 100 cheers LFC TV I've seen you do a few times yeah so TalkSport I've started like LFC TV inside Chelsea as well inside Spurs really yeah and I do the ones for the Liverpool enjoy it Is there any players that you sort of, I don't know, put a bit of an arm around now and, I don't know, sort of help him bring through?

1:08:05No, I think they've got all their, all what they need. I think clubs now have all that indoors, in-house, to really look after the young players. And I think the family support is a lot more keen than probably it once was. When we was playing, they weren't much. It was like, train, get home, off your pop. when now there's a lot of things for mental health now in place. What does like success look to you now? Like what are your goals for the future? And what do you look at? Because when you're a young man, you look at different things as being successful, don't you? I think when you're older. Success now for me is to be happy, be who I always wanted to be.

1:08:52Yeah, I like a laugh here and there, but always see the the other side that only you guys probably know and not a lot of people do and just be enjoy what I'm doing whether it's that's the radio whether it's the podcast to be successful to get awareness whether it's the app to kick off just whatever I'm diving into to stick at it and enjoy and hopefully that can kick off and you're all ready for Christmas yes done your Christmas shopping no no we were just talking about this before weren't we there we go that's why I need the X that's the NHD thing you know no but that's getting sorted soon Amazon Prime next day oh mate and mate what's your podcast called it's called Wild Cards Pod Wild Cards yeah lovely good luck with it also mate thanks so much for coming on booch good pleasure mate good see you right everyone a motivational team talk from Notorious SID If you like what you're listening to, make sure you hit the subscribe button and keep growing this podcast.

1:09:59This episode is brought to you by aloadofpricks.net. We are the experts in selling houses. Chris couldn't sell his house. What did you do, Chris? I couldn't sell my house for love nor money, Crouchy. Three different offers I had, all at the last minute, fell through. I turned around to my wife and said, what can we do to sell this house? Every estate agent is failing us. Then I told her, let's go to aloadofpricks.net. But Chris, what did a load of pricks do for you? They were brilliant, Crouchy. They sold my house right away. The sign had barely gone up when a well-dressed gentleman came along and offered me twice the asking price.

1:10:31Chris, would you use a load of pricks again? I'd use them every time, Crouchy. Go to loadofpricks.net. They will sell your house like no other. Loadofpricks, loadofpricks.net.