Joe Cole: “We Knew We Were Becoming a Machine” — Chelsea Behind The Scenes & That England Heartbreak

0:00This podcast is part of the A-Class Creator Network. Hello and welcome to that Peter Crouch podcast. Me, Peter Crouch, Notorious SID and Chris Stark with me. Is everyone okay? Feeling good? Yeah, really well. Really, really good. I feel a bit starstruck seeing you today, Siddy. What? I was watching you on Saturday. I was having a few beers and it was on and I like it. You know when you see Sky Sports do that thing and you know everyone's watching all over the UK and I was watching because I wasn't at the Watford game and anyway, I thought I'd just keep up with the scores that way. Watford come back against Derby 2-0 down gets a 3-2 and I thought City will be there fucking like screaming you know when you start hearing the presenters going like whoa in the background nothing not a blip sorry no it wasn't our game oh right yeah obviously it comes up on the big video printer but when you're engrossed in your game of course yeah and then you're seeing ultimate professional I had Dorse next to me who was doing the Liverpool game which was a great game as well and then Clinton was next to me doing Palace Wolves.

1:03So we were just all up in our games. Yeah. Sorry, mate. I'll make a beeline next time if they... I did hear you mention the fourth official at one point, no. Yeah. I always get the fourth. Yeah, I'd always try to... I think every time I'm on TV now, I just try and drop something from the podcast. Yeah, well played. Yeah, you're doing really well with that, actually. Passing the pod. Yeah. Doing well. What have you been up to, Chris? Nice weekend? Yeah, pretty chilled, actually. Yeah, nothing too major to report. You've been... You've been busy, though. I keep seeing you popping up all sorts of things.

1:30Places and pieces. Yeah, I actually went up to Manchester on the weekend. And I helped, well, it's football for change. Really good cause, you know, for underprivileged kids or, you know, communities that maybe haven't got the right infrastructure around them, but they all benefit from the charity. So it's all for a good cause. And I sat on a table with Jamie Carragher and our friend Roy Keane. So I was next to Roy. So good. Did you mention the 16th chapel? The 16th chapel didn't get mentioned. I was just hoping he wouldn't bring it up and then I just didn't bring it up but I did mention the car story when he gave me the look at the lights that I've mentioned on the pod before I did mention that to him how did that go down?

2:13yeah it went down alright it went down fine he said did I really do that? and I was like I said yeah you did yeah I said he thought you'd made that up he couldn't remember it I think I mean it was just something so small in his day that affected me in a big way it wouldn't have affected him in any way he just looked at me and thought what a **** and then just got on with his day but I reckon I reckon he does that with just anyone as well next to him he would just look there and just go yeah but I have to say you know he's got an aura about him right hasn't he like a real aura about him so I was a bit apprehensive I would say a bit nervy about it because I haven't really chatted to him at all I played against him but not really I don't know him what a great company enjoyed every moment oh really so you got on you got on great after that yeah what are his views or what's your perceived views of his of you as a footballer do you know as a player I don't know I mean not obviously on his level at all but I think I think he would respect me yeah I think there was an element of respect yeah and it felt that way yeah you know I mean he might you know go somewhere else and say on the overlap you know what a shit player I was and what bad company I was but I enjoyed his company I thought he was so I think he's a great player that'd be great to hear wouldn't it as he pops up it will do they got my so I was something yeah no it was good it was a nice night and he was good coming to him do you remember the 16th chapel stuff yes I do remember it yeah in case you don't know it's well worth checking out we basically started an art it was a real art gallery somewhere wasn't it yeah it was in Gosport in Portsmouth we hired out an art gallery to exclusively put pictures of Roy Keane meeting people.

4:01What was so good about that gallery, right, where the pictures were like, and they had a little caption underneath of what Roy had said to them when they asked for the photo. It was just the best. The best one was him holding the ice cream and he's leaning in to have a picture with someone. The caption was, really? When I'm having a fucking ice cream?

4:24And then there was another one where he was I think it was you know a bit of part where you do the picture through the gates you know like he's obviously doing that and I think the caption was the picture through the gates and it was it it was just a caption saying like I'm in fucking prison

4:44the captions made it I think what a guy brilliant good weekend then all round yeah good all round great for me on the old football as well I mean there was one point I had seven points It was on seven points. Oh my God. If Arsenal had got, you know, Arsenal scored one more, didn't they? I was on for 3-1. I couldn't believe it. When the Richarlison goal went in, which was an insane goal by any standard, and odd as well because it was, it was a goal that wasn't met with the noise that the goal deserved. Do you know what I mean? It's just a consolation, isn't it? But it was, yeah, it was a consolation, but I thought, fuck, like Crouchy's done it again.

5:22Crouchluck's come through. Well, I just, I mean, that could have took me into the Arsenal or Tottenham goal there and luckily Arsenal came through. I had the Chelsea 2-0 so that was a three-pointer. I almost had the 3-1 Arsenal-Tottenham but I did get that correct and obviously the Palace game got Palace to win. So I had five points. Since you had another great week again you really are on form and Chris you just got the two points. So that puts us on 28-28 Me and Chris and Sid is... Well, it's only four points. It's only four points. Come on. He is the Arsenal of the group at the moment. Do you think it's surmountable, that?

6:03Is that the phrase? Oh, it's... Yeah, definitely is. Yeah. It's makeable, that, yeah. What about Arsenal? What about six points? What do you mean? Oh, it's theirs to lose. Yeah. Well, the league? Yeah. Well, if Liverpool keep throwing away points, and as do City... Yeah, what the hell, man? What in there? I don't know. Do you want to speak for Liverpool? well there's just lots not clicking isn't there I think it does feel like they're kind of off the boil when they've come back I don't know if it's a bit of a hangover from how easy it was last year teams have probably improved again but there's definitely been a drop off the signings are looking shaky I think the two fullbacks haven't improved the team well documented about Verts not really hitting the ground running ESAC so a lot of money been spent but not huge improvement when I look at Arsenal now with the defensively they've improved they don't miss Gabriel when he's out Eze Maduai he had great signings I know Jokeres is out but they've Zubamendi they've all improved the team haven't they and I think that's not true of Liverpool I think there's a big thing of retaining one I think trying to win one I say win one or win the league is hard but I think retaining it the year after Wayne Rooney might have said it as well I think is the hardest thing to do because your mindset is a bit different there's a bit more pressure there's a bit more nerves on it whereas when you're chasing it when you're trying to get it it feels like you're giving everything whereas when you're top of the pile already you're there to be shut down I'm sorry Is Eze one of the most likeable players?

7:38So good I felt happy from getting a hat trick you know Yeah it's nice when players like that like do well isn't it? Yeah I just loved when he was celebrating he was almost looking around it was like he was in that dream that he'd had when he was younger. It was kind of, he was almost mouthing, I think, like, wow. How good is this? And Declan Rice, your boy, I love him. And he's a proper Derby Day player. Like the way that even they're winning, I think, didn't the camera catch him saying, let's kill him? Yeah. That's what you want. We've got to get him on the pod. We've got to get him. We've got to reach out again because he loves us.

8:16And I see his mum and dad yesterday on the train going up to the, up to the game and they was nervous his mum was nervous his dad was like it's a big week it's a real big week obviously they got Bayern Munich in the Champions League and then they got Chelsea coming up and it's I was like it's like it's yours to lose and he was like yeah it feels like that it feels like that you know you can just see that from a pair and they're just they're there every every moment with the boy as well so must be good so just get the train up they got the train up yeah it's like the same as you go watch your kids do Sunday league but you're doing that sort of game That must be such a buzz going to watch your son play in the North London Derby.

8:55Yeah. Good family. He was actually getting a hat-trick in the North London Derby, though, Crouchy. What did he say? Was he the only four people to have done it, wasn't he? Since the 70s, I think. I think it was like 78. Yeah, that is amazing. I mean, I heard Henri talking about it after, and he was like, you think of the players like Ian Wright himself, Alan Smith, whoever, Kevin Campbell, you know, no one's done it. And I still can't shake the image of Eze stepping out at the Emirates in his jeans. It's like even when he scored that hat trick, I sort of believe you'd do it in jeans as well. If anyone could do it in jeans.

9:31What did you call it? Riz? He's got some Riz, hasn't he? He's got some Riz. He's happy. He's nice. I like him. I think, anyway. That's how he comes across.

9:45Okay, shall we get into the games, lads? Yeah. this part of the podcast is supported by Paddy Parra the big weekend fixture this week is Chelsea vs Arsenal just before we get into Chelsea vs Arsenal do you know Paddy Parra doing that thing again where they it's the 9 dart challenge 1-4-7 and a hole in one what's the hardest what's your thoughts again I did this last year didn't get anywhere near a hole in one yeah was there all day I think yeah the hardest for me would be the 1-4-7 yeah I agree for me because there's so many so many things that can go wrong I think with the 147 like I think with a hole in one anyone could get one yeah with a 147 you have to be a snooker player yeah and a very good one as well I feel like with nine darts I'm not saying it's easy to do the hole in one isn't hard but anyone could attempt it is what you're saying a hole in one yeah but I think anyone could get one you could be a 28 handicapper and get a hole in one you couldn't be crap at snooker and get a 147 very true yeah true nailed on and the nine darts is tough as well let's not underestimate how hard that is they make it look easy now like Luke Littler's and the guys but well when we went up to interview Luke Littler yeah do you remember we were downstairs for a bit beforehand and we were doing round the board yeah and it took us an hour and a half yeah yeah it's true it's true indeed so nine darts like nailing every single dart yeah is a difficult thing to do are you saying are you saying the 147 as well the snooker I think so yeah it's between the darts and the snooker isn't it but I think I still think with darts there is a small chance my missus could get the nine darter like and she doesn't play at all but she could hit physically hit the board yeah with the snooker you can't you can't fluke the shots like she wouldn't I don't know why I'm picking on my missus here but I'm just thinking of my missus as well I think she'd get one red I don't think she's getting one red

11:49we're not thinking of a 147 this is a challenge this is a challenge Ab I'll tell you what our three misses battle it out to work out I've got a game I don't know if Paddy Fowler will do this but I've got a game right you have like Sean Murphy or you know Ronnie O'Sullivan or someone right Jimmy White they try and get a 147 before Abbie gets a red

12:16you can't you can't place the ball anywhere right you've got to break and then get try and get a red I'll tell you now I reckon I genuinely believe the 147 might get done quick I love these ones but this is like where they had that really fast runner racing against a cheetah or where they take on a jet plane and top gear you know when they do them like that that's what you're saying so a professional player breaks and then clears up in the time in the time it takes a board next door a snooker table next door next to it yeah yeah she's got a pop one I just think that's pay-per-view viewing as well that would be actually I'm not even lying now I would watch that this is brilliant all day I'd watch that all day all day

13:07you've had the difference in abilities yeah she's not you're getting the contrast from both tables you know what I mean you're seeing utter utter shit on one and like expertise on the other yeah I think sports is you know something we should look at she's good she's good at sport but snooker's just not one of them she's not good at sport but she's yeah she could do certain things but snooker I know she won't yeah and then also with the golf we're obviously waiting for you to get the holding one because you're not going home no I'm not you said that 100 % I'm not going home When he gets one, make sure your phone's on.

13:44I've told her. I've told her. She knows. I agree. Okay, we'll get into the games. Big weekend fixture supported by Paddy Parra is Chelsea versus Arsenal. Chelsea are 23 to 10. Arsenal 6 to 5. So yes, favourites as you'd expect. Is that Stamford Bridge? Yeah. Chelsea are second as well at the moment. So this is a top of the table clash. Where do we see it going? They are second. is it doing them a disservice saying that the fall off of some of the other teams has sort of accentuated that a bit? Is that unfair? Yeah, Liverpool've blown up, haven't they? City have been very good, I think, recently.

14:24I've covered Chelsea quite a bit this season and they don't look like a team that can win the title. From what I've seen. From what I've seen. In certain games, certain games they look really poor going forward. In other games, they look really good going forward. In some games, they look defensively a little bit frail. they've struggled against teams that's really sort of like just sat behind the ball not that Arsenal will do that so but again Arsenal are defensively really really good but yeah I think it's Arsenal to throw away now I really do with this league this season I think they've got to it's about time that they grab it by the scruff of the neck and they go this is our league and this is another fixture that can cement that what have you what's everyone saying who would you like Joe I'm just you know the different folders on Instagram so you got you know the one anyone can message I'll give you some names we got Joe Petit Joe Petit we've got to go there Manu's brother yeah look because he played for both Chelsea and Arsenal he played for both of them it's the Petit Derby you reckon Charlie Needler Harry Judge Ian Stiles should we go Petit yeah let's just see what he's saying let's see what he's saying afternoon bonfire barbecue see and Pete

15:37Arsenal won Chelsea Chelsea1 thinks a draw in that one. I don't know. I don't think that's what most people are going for here. I think you're all over a 2-1 Arsenal, I think. Yeah, most people seem to be going Arsenal win here. Harry Judge. Isn't he McFly? Regards to the family and garden furniture. Also to tangerine testes, tall testes, and yourself, treated testes. Big scores this weekend. Arsenal 3 Chelsea 1 I can see that I can see a 3-1 I'm going to go 1-1 draw 1-1 draw interesting as you say that I just clicked on Charlie Ross here on Instagram says a horny weekend of draws send draws from the mall starting with a 1-0 in the Chelsea Arsenal game I'm thinking 2-1 or 3-1 is there one that you prefer if you're going down that route are you easier with either either I'll go 2-1 then to Arsenal alright I'll go 3-1 Locked in We've got Paddy's boost We each pick a leg Of the Crouch Pod Bet Builder The odds on that Bet Builder Then be boosted by 20 % And put on the Paddy Power website And app Player to score first I'm going to go With Saka Player to be carded We'll go Caicedo Oh nice Yeah I'll have Player to have Two or more shots On target The man in form Eberiche Ezza Okay Odds are correct at the time of recording, please gamble responsibly.

17:07Moving on, good game this one, Sunland versus Bournemouth. Obviously at the Stadium of Light where it is fire up there. I'm not being funny, sign of the season. Yeah. So far. Yeah. Well, I think they've made some really good signings all over. Yeah. They made quite a lot, but I think a lot of the players they were after, I think other promoted clubs were in for as well and they managed to get them, you know, so credit to the recruitment. Yeah. And they've become, for us, I think a bit of our podcast team. I think every time Sunderland win, it feels like we've won. Yeah. I agree. I think a lot of these fixtures for Sunderland are going to be really important for the build-up towards January because in January, I believe it's African Cup of Nations and they lose the most players.

17:56Do they? Oh, right. Yeah. It might be four or five, but they might lose. Oh, interesting. Bournemouth as well. You did the Bournemouth West Ham game. You used to be battered by Southam. They absolutely battered them. I mean, the weather was atrocious. And there was like, Areola, the West Ham keeper, he kept them in it. He was on fire, wasn't he? Fire. But Bournemouth, absolutely. I think there was like 28 chances on target to five from West Ham. They didn't score more. So yeah, they'll be coming off disappointed they didn't get the three points, but Bournemouth are looking good. They are looking good.

18:27Sunderland are at home. They do look good at home. Also with Bournemouth as well, they've got Semenyo and Cliver out at the moment as well. is still performing really well it's a tough game I think Bournemouth are a really good side but I'm sticking with Sunderland because I feel like I feel like they're they are the pod team this year and I'm going to go with 2-0 Sunderland do you know what I'm feeling horny oh it's dangerous are you I'm going to go for the one all draw one again Steve Zidwell likes I might go

19:07they do pop up occasions very rarely I'm going for the one or draw

19:18I'm in for the one or lock me in that's two out of two there very horny it's got horny I'll go Desmond please Desmond two two all right lovely okay Everton versus Newcastle look at this yeah Newcastle away from home poor poor at home they're very very good but yeah they're away from me he's not great I don't know if I'm predicting a high scoring affair here I'm going to go for nil-nil I don't think it's ever been done I think you're right I don't think anyone's ever gone for nil-nil no so if there is a goal early on look at Rody's face no one's ever done it I think you're actually right do I get an extra point no nah I like I like the opposite I think I'm thinking outside the box yeah okay that's interesting if a goal goes in you might have to I think Newcastle are poor away but I've just had a big result against City yep and I'd like to think momentum comes from that a bit so I'm are you You can do another one-all horny chore.

20:31Is that what it's going to be? I'm horny. Because I'm tempted with a two-all again. You're going nil-nil, yeah? I've gone nil-nil. I'm going to go Newcastle 2-1. I'm going to go two-all. I'm going to go another Desmond. Wow. Okay, we're going to get into the Joe Cole interview now. Always a good laugh with Joe, isn't it? To be fair. He's got his book out. We did it a couple of days ago. here he is luxury player looks well there looking great JC what a man oh look at that one what a guy what a player yeah big friend of the pod Joe Cole so here he is

21:14right ladies and gentlemen we've got Joe Cole with us today how are you Mr Joe Cole all good thank you for having me no absolute pleasure you know we were just chatting off air and air about Nick Collins touchline reporter yeah when we were at England he was very much very prominent wasn't he Chief Chief Yeah like And he was an original Tash man When he I just said because I can't think of I'm picking up micro Without thinking of Of Nick Collins Because And you done me once Because he's gone Get on him when he asked you a question Because he does that And he leans in With a finger And every time He's interviewed me Do you know You said And I'm just like He's asked me a question Like it was really long winded And like Good question Powerful I just like started giggling Because he's like Tash first microphone after do you know it's worth a Google this I don't know if you've seen this I'm not familiar with this have you seen Nick Collins falling off the ladder of Wembley I have seen that one do you remember this I do I do I mean if you're ever feeling down you know one of those situations where if you're ever feeling down Google Nick Collins outside Wembley on a ladder let's have a look

22:39He's trying not to laugh What's happened there then? What's happened to Nick there? It's brilliant isn't it? It really is superb So John how are you mate? I'm good Giza Yeah, all good. What am I doing? Yeah, just all the promotion for the book. Yeah, how's it going, mate? Talk us through it. Yeah, it's good. Like, you know, I did a couple of podcasts. I did a book signing. What else did I do? I did the Sunday brunch, which was interesting. You know, like, because this is normal, because you're just with your mates talking football. Sunday brunch was a bit different, because it was singers, and it was a bit...

23:17There's a lot of booze on that one sometimes. Yeah, that was a good bit of a problem. so they brought so we added the food was lovely and you sort of forget you're on TV and then this wine guy come out wine guy wine expert you're a restaurateur I know I know but anyway and he's gone this is an English rosé this is and then you have like half a glass of each and you taste them and I guarantee you nobody ever at Sunday brunch has gone god that's a bit sore that mate what you thinking but anyway he's chatting away and I'm just drinking away and I'm on the end and I'm looking down and I've done two of the three glasses.

23:56Like everyone's done a sensible way to sip and I'm just looking, they're both goners and I'm thinking, it's like such a greedy fucker. You can't help it. I can't help it. I'm looking for a reload on wine tasting. 11 o 'clock in the morning. 11 o 'clock in the morning. It was good. But talk us through the book joke. So what made you want to do it? Luxury player, right? I've got to get into that as well. what made me do it right so I've been asked to do it you've done one you know a lot of our colleagues have done one he's done more than one have you done more than one so I thought to myself right I've got to do one right a friend of mine actually said he's had led an interest in life and he said like you should really write you know write about it see what you've done for your kids so I thought to myself this is how my mind works it's my strength and my weakness I think I could have a pop at anything.

24:49Like if someone falls down in the street and there's CPR needing, I'll have a go. Never done a course, but I'm that stuff. I thought, let me try and write my own book. So I've got the app. What are you laughing at?

25:05No, I like it. I like it. Because, because I know that you didn't write it. So I just know already this is going to be an amazing story. So I've gone, I'm just sitting there one morning for, I could be an author I woke up Went and got the I got myself Didn't even have a laptop Went and bought a laptop Got the Got the right Got the right app for it Word I can't even remember Where it was Geese But got it I was like And I thought right Let me give this a go After about a week mate It just looked like You know like Spot the dog was written You know them books like Oh misspelling mistake Grammar And this app This app was one That sort of like would question everything like say that you put it in and it all does spell check grammar and mate it just was chastising me this app for my lack of like because it exposes you like a lot of blue like all the different marks and in the end so I wanted to do it because I wanted to write it for my kids I've been in a fortnight I need someone to do it professionally so I found I met a couple of people and Sam Wallace journalist who's followed our career and I really clicked with him he's a really good guy and he and we write we wrote the first chapter together and sam was like and i'll even then i think do i want to publish it i just want to write it for the kids and the grandkids because they lead a very different life to what what i lead and then the first two chapters were really good then we took them to a publishers and then they you know they said yes and i think it'll be it'll be good book yeah and then i thought yeah so went with sam took two years to do it I was proper crouch I did it I was like open and honest and everything and really it was a really good process to do and then I thought I'd give the money to charity as well so there's another angle brilliant so two charities close to my heart one's on side youth zone so it's basically it does it it builds youth centres in underprivileged areas of the country for kids you know you know when we was growing up, we had youth centers and youth clubs to go to.

27:17There's none anymore. Do you know what I mean? And I went to do, I worked with them before and it's a really organic, really good, good place. And it helps kids do sports, arts, keeps them out of trouble. It gives them something to do. Really good. So that was one. And another one was, it's never you, you know, Kerry from the Shire. So he's, he's charity, you know, again, again, it's organic. I could have gone with the big charities and who do good work, but a lot of that gets lost in all the bureaucracy and putting up posters and that. But Kerry's basically is for like, if you get the worst diagnosis for your child, a terminal case, and it helps the families, you know, again, the government probably should do more supporting that type of thing.

28:01So, and I sort of, you know, Kerry, I know Kerry, he went through a tragedy with his child and he's basically lobbying government and help, throwing a few quid, helping out families in that predicament. So two really good charities. So that are two reasons. And yeah, listen, I just really loved doing it. I really loved the whole process. Yeah. You know, you talk about your kids being from different worlds. Were you, were you concerned that you were going to be from different, complete worlds? Is that why you were apprehensive about showing them? No, no, no, no. Like, it sort of went the wrong way around.

28:38like I'm from Kentish Town and I talk about in the book the upbringing you know working class and all the ups and the downs and I thought my kids are you know beautiful really well-mannered polite kids and but you know we live in Chelsea and they go to private school and they're great so I wanted to show them where I grew up so I took them there and it's like as I went in there I love my my youth and it's like literally really small flat but there's all kids playing there's big grass outside it had the rock I was expecting them to go look look how lucky you are they're going dad it must be quality to live to grow up here you've got like there's kids everywhere vibrant love that and I was like is it still like that now?

29:24yeah yeah is it really? so the work still playing out it's right that's the thing with Sam I think he's done a really good job because you know it was is a council statement it was right in camden market which in the 90s you had primrose hill hamster camden market mtv was there so it was like you know it was just like this vibrant it just just a brilliant place to grow up you know you don't realize because you only know grow up when your kids like but you you did like the the one the all saints lived above us in the flats the two sisters like it was that brit pop year so you had the gallagher's moving around the corner in Primrose Hill, like Cape Moss, and yet you had it, the other side of it as well.

30:04Do you know what I mean? So it was a really interesting place to grow up. And Sam, right, because you don't know what's going to be interesting about your own story, but Sam was like, yeah, this is pretty, pretty cool place to grow up. Yeah. Was it hard to do the, you said it took two years. Yeah. Was it hard to like remember things or have you got a great memory anyway? Or did you need some people to go, no, no, it was that year that we've done this and what did you need people to just sort of rebuff a story that you sort of couldn't really get? Do you know what's mad about remembering your career?

30:36I remember stuff was correct, but I was putting it in different years. I know we've all headed a load of balls and that. Forget, you know what I mean? But Sam had to go, I'm telling him what happened. He went, yeah, that did happen, but it weren't in 2005. It was in 2008. But going back, and this is where Sam's brilliant. He did all the due diligence on it and he was like, yeah that happened and he went and checked the archives and everything so everything's just correct as far as i'm do you know i mean as far as i'm aware yeah well why is that like because obviously i remember you um and as sid would as well when i was 15 16 17 it was like everyone knew about joe khan it was other than that it was yeah yeah 12 12 11 whatever everyone knew what's it like going back to camden town and having that buzz around you at that age do you Well, do you know, that's when I was talking about it with Sam, I was trying to explain to him, because for people reading it, it's a pre-internet era.

31:35So the big moment for me that I think changed my, at 15 I was on the front page of the Sunday people. Sorry, yeah, the front page and the back page. And it was like 15-year-old kid earns five grand a week more than the prime minister in the picture of my head like that's standing there. like and to explain but you shouldn't be allowed to do that you're 15 years old and you're in an environment there where you know your safety could have been yeah yeah it was yeah so I remember it because it weren't like today the internet things come and go but if you was on the front page of one of the Sunday papers every household in the country is reading and it's a salacious story and a 15 year old is earning 5 grand a week I wasn't I was on nothing niche, just whatever my mum and dad got me.

32:27Right. But I remember it's like a point in my life where, right. I literally went out the house and like, you know, like it's all like everyone's looking at you. Every time I went to football, everyone went to school on the Monday morning and a couple of the teachers were like, you know, like making like silly jokes about it, trying to, and it was quite, it's a, I was actually quite a shy kid. Right. I weren't right. You know, I wasn't, So I had to sort of front it up a little bit. So one of the teachers was giving me a little bit, you know, yeah. Cause I, I wasn't a great student, but he was like, he's saying something to me about getting the work done or something.

33:05You don't need to like, you've got all this money. Maybe you can lend us all a few quid type thing. And then I thought, Oh, what'd I do here? Do I just like be meek? And I just fronted it and said, yeah, yes, go on. Send me over your bank details. I'll send you a few quid or something. Do you know what I mean? Look after you. you know i've seen your car or something because you come for me yeah and i thought to myself i'm not gonna i'm not gonna have that you know what i mean so i sort of become this like it was horrible mate because people it brings jealousy to your front door especially because it wasn't true yeah do you know what i mean jealousy and is that like a wider famous because you're saying you're 15 and crouch is right that should never never actually wouldn't happen now so even when you're writing a book you're trying to remember these things yeah does it trigger the memories and feelings of that time yeah it made you probably look back on it differently to yeah at the time at the time i'm like this has happened right nothing's stopping me i want to become a footballer but when you look back at it and and how it changes you as a person it was like it was it was every time i went to a football ground then i was a target you know for the opposition you know and you can't go around explaining to everyone this isn't true or anything like that you just sort of have to roll with it a little bit do you know what I mean you have to grow up really quick because I remember the first time I played against you I must have been 13, 14 maybe 14 and like same thing like back then there was no internet you didn't know like you'd seen a picture of Joe maybe in the papers or a magazine but then when you see him for the first time it's like you'd nudge one of the team and you'd go that's Joe Cole that's him that's the yeah honestly it was like wow that's Joe For a shy kid, that's painful.

34:51Do you know what I mean? Because all I wanted to do was play football. And that was where I expressed myself. But then it was just like, I was happy on the pitch. But then getting to the game, getting back for this, couldn't wait to get back and get into the flats and just get around. And the only people that probably I'd say didn't change a little bit to me was my close family and my mates. You know what I mean? Your mates are your mates. but every other relationship from 15 onwards people then had within football because I was only in football had a preconceived notion so I was at Lillyshaw at the time and then already you're coming from London and the way I played people thought you know Flash Cockney so already there was a little bit of that so I didn't have to battle against that as well and and and try and switch that but because writing this book I didn't even I've never given it any fault but when you write the book and you you realise you go through and you go like that's why I'm like that that's why I'm a bit defensive on that but that was a massive point yeah yeah what it must be did you ever feel the pressure like when you because when I played with you I remember playing under 18 under 16s or under 18s with you there was one particular game I remember where I think we won like 8-0 and I think you you scored one and set up 7 and that's when I thought well it's not bad this lad but did you ever feel pressure going into games and thinking I've got to be the best player on the pitch because everyone thinks and has come to watch me.

36:17I remember youth team games, like West Ham Tottenham was a big game. You were obviously playing a year above or two years above, whatever, playing against me. And you'd play and the gate was a hell of a lot bigger than it would be. It wasn't just mums and dads. It was people, let's go and see Joe Cole. Let's go and see what this boy's about. Yeah. Yeah, but that was just a norm for me. And do you know what I would say to you? Because I'm writing it and hopefully young players read it who were dealing with pressure, right? And you get through that and it strengthens you. Do you know what I mean?

36:46So I knew every youth team game from 15, 16, 17 and I got in the first team, it was the biggest game because it was the biggest game for the opposition because of all the media that was false. And then that sort of strengthens you. So by the time I step up to play 17 in the first team, I was probably a little bit more prepared than a normal kid. Do you know what I mean? Because I'm like, I've been playing under pressure so all my life. So coming on in your actual making your debut was actually probably easier because I've had that I've been pushed through but it could have gone the other way Crouchy I could have you've seen we've seen so many talented players we can't work out why they didn't make it it's because they probably can't deal with that little bit of added pressure as you go up the levels you know what I mean?

37:30Yeah what you're saying is that's not just surviving that pressure right that's actually recognising looking that's amazing what you're saying because what you're saying is you recognise that actually it was something that that did add something to you as well. Like there was, it was kind of positive. Yeah. That's also a testament to you though, because I've got like, we know, we know you, right. But you're humble enough. And I think some people who've had too much too soon goes to their head. And that's why they fall by the wayside. That didn't happen to you, but that's because the character you are is that you, you wouldn't get no matter what people say to you, you still had that nucleus of people around you, kept you grounded.

38:08Yeah. absolutely that and that's why still to this day i've got the same my same people around me but yeah you just you're right and that's a lot of books you read now people our age and above football books and they talk about how tough we had yes i had it tough growing up irrespective of all that we all did but i'm more about you know you can have you can have tough moments and experiences but you can always take something from that and i talk about how it affected me but you're right I talk about I took the positives out of that and it helped me in this part and then you don't even know when it's going to help you it helps you this part of your life helps you this part of your life you know and I'd like that hopefully if young players read it which I hope they do it'll help them as well I think that's the biggest thing that needs to come across because obviously a lot of our listeners are from the generation where we was all playing and you're in your prime and there'd be a lot that would have known you growing up as well but for people that don't know the hype around you when you was young and this is no exaggeration we're talking probably like a Saka a Jude Bellingham who else a Rashford when they was coming through all in one wasn't it that's no exaggeration the hype around Joe when we were younger I'm talking about now when he first became a pro when he was playing it was so big and for you and for us it was like you're in the bubble you're in the football world it's just the norm but when you come out you look back you go fucking like that that is a lot to deal with is there a player you see now that you sort of identify is there is there any I always remember you saying Max Dalman Max Dalman's probably the logical one but everything around it is so different like because you know all of this stuff was going on and when my dad weren't a football person he was, I was, I was left and it helped me, it left to my own, so I was getting up to, to Miss Chief and I was doing stuff I shouldn't do.

40:13There's no way Max Dalman's doing anything other than training, going home, getting his mind right for the next game, do you know what I mean? And that's probably, who knows whether that's the right thing to do or not. I mean, but I can only do from my experience, like, I was like, this, you know, I was, you know, it was just a different era and I was getting up to staff and you know nothing too nasty or anything like that but just kids i could still be a kid effectively you said about your dad there joe george and obviously what a man he was a huge character big personality how how big was that then if he wasn't in that football well and he just sort of left it to your own devices but obviously had all the best interest in looking after you personally and your well-being and then knew you was going to be a footballer but I take it that was a big part of why your journey went the way it did.

41:04Yeah, exactly. That's his. And you do this, but I started writing the book and I wasn't like, he's sort of like the main character in my life because all of the lessons you learn, like we talk about like the, you know, for instance, Alex Ferguson asked me as a kid to come and be mascot in the FA Cup final and he rung the house and then he was like, I was like, yeah, I've got quite fancy imagine walking out of the FA Cup final Alex Ferguson manages the mascots no well he no Alex Ferguson does he still does he still does so this was this was the FA Cup final wasn't it against Chelsea at 94 94 and at the time I hadn't decided where I was I'd been up to Man United and had a look I'd been at West Ham been at Arsenal been at all the clubs and my dad's gone but maybe the week before because my dad just said to me where do you want to sign where do you want to go who do you want to go play for and there was like there was offers of money right which i didn't know at the time they kept mum and dad kept away from kept it away from me because they didn't want it to affect my decision because if you're in a council house right and you think i can earn his dad a right few quid by going to play for so-and-so club even though judgment cloud your judgment wrong reasons so my dad was a very principled man so he's like he wouldn't allow me to you know and as it turns out westland weren't one of the clubs that offered me money.

42:27So he's probably kicking himself. But he's got a, but a week before we decided that I want to sign for West Ham, loved it. You know, loved Harry Redknapp was the first team manager. It just felt like a family. And that must be as a young, young lad. Yeah. Did you personally speak to Alex Ferguson? I went up and met him and spoke and we watched the game was in the office and all that went around the training ground and all that. That's how good he was, mate. He's going for Premier League titles, but he's won my, and I wasn't the only one but obviously I made it there might have been other kids who were the best at 13s or the 12s anyway so how old were you at this point?

43:0513, 14 so he's going to meet you whilst he's like you say he's got an FA Cup final to go and win yeah this was on the phone this is the phone call but we had met him a few months before we went up there and we went to the training ground and he had us in the office and it's not unusual for him that's why he's the best at what he does right they really put the hard sell on me took me to Coronation Street we've gone up there right do you know what I mean there must be some footage Sir Alex Ferguson and Joe Carl looking round the cobbled Alex Ferguson didn't actually come on the tour but see like me mum from Kent mum and dad are like walking round and I'm there and there's the what's the pub called in Corrie the road to Matt we're in there like he's trying to convert you lot from EastEnders up to Corrie I believe it He says, it's gone, mate.

43:56Listen, mum enjoyed it. We got the pictures anyway, right? Anyway, so he's rung us up. He said, I want you to be the mascot for the final. What? And my dad's gone, already knows I want to sign for West Ham. And my dad's, he said, listen, you know you can't do this, right? If you can't take something from someone, you know you're not going to sign for them. It's not right. So all of them little principles. So my dad rung him back and said, sorry, you know, we're going to sign for West Ham, but thank you for your offering. And that was fine. Do you know what I mean? but um so them little things he was very principled sid right yeah so we're writing so you you're learning you're learning about him and he wasn't a perfect man by any stretch of the imagination and uh and one of the best things about doing a job we do now because whenever i played wherever club i played i used to get tickets or if there's something lying about on the floor boots or something was going i'd give it to my dad before the game tickets boots shirts and he would, he would, cause he'd get to the games early.

44:52He'd go round and he'd give it to people. Like, do you know, if you live a point, the Scouse kids were like, look after your car and all that. He'd go, yeah, there you go. There's some tickets for the game. Right. And I swear to God, it happens all the time. So I go, yeah, your dad gave me to, give us the tickets for the game. Right. So he's a very principled man. He looked after people and, um, so he just sort of become the, yeah, having him, someone outside of football who did no clue left me to my own devices, but just put little prints, little things like that into me was good. Just use the player, Joe, right?

45:26Obviously the book's called Luxury Player. Would you, you know, did that kind of hamper you in your career? Would you have preferred to have kind of played in the era now when you see Cole Palmer getting licensed to roam around Chelsea at Stamford Bridge? Would you have loved that kind of free roll there? Yeah, I mean, I would have loved, I would have loved to have played on the pitch the football now is all sanitized and the way I played the way I played you'd be a lot more protected so I think it would have suited me now you can't change like anything we had we had a great time but I had to first and foremost prove I the other side of my game before I could start playing so Sam actually chose the title when we're thinking about it in luxury because luxury players like it sort of it can say two things can't it you you prefer to be a luxury player than a hammer Monegger, who's just, you know what I mean?

46:18I don't know what I'm saying, Monegger. You always say that, Sid. You always say that. Fucking, I definitely want a luxury fighter. Right. But, it's also a little bit like, you're a liability as well. Do you know what I mean? So, it leaves it open. it does. And I wrestled with that, all through my career. Whenever I was playing bad, it was like, the luxury player, you can't look at it. And then, when you're playing well, you excite the crowd, and things like that. so, So we chose the title because of that. It causes debate, doesn't it? The thing is with you, Joe, right? Yeah, you were a player that had, you know, your defensive, that wasn't your strong point, right?

46:58So going forward and creating things was your strong point. But you're fitting, especially with England, you're fitting yourself, you're getting shoehorned into a 4-4-2 formation with two strikers. So you're playing on a wing, you have to do the defensive work. You know, I think this day and age, I think we've kind of, we've gone past that now. When you look at players like Phil Foden, Cole Palmer, Morgan Rodgers, I'm just going through the England squad now. So many talented players in those positions, you must have, I don't know, do you feel a little bit of like maybe you were born in the wrong time?

47:33It sounds very sort of self-indulgent, you know, you don't know. I think looking at the style of football, for people reading the book, like for my whole England career, I played on the left of the four, right? and you think the whole country were like, he's right-footed. He can't play there. It's madness to think now. It's almost the opposite, isn't it? It's like, if you're on the left and you're left-footed, what are you doing? What are you going to get crosses in? So it's sort of... That was the problem. I remember so... It was like we can't win anything because we haven't got a left-footed player on the left.

48:04Yeah. And you think about it now, everyone wins things on the opposite. It's like we need a David Beckham on the left-hand side. It was like you were almost filling the gap. Yeah. And it was why the fact that we couldn't see that maybe we could play centrally. That goes back to, I think we were a little bit behind tactically. Like, do you know what I mean? The whole of, all of us, I think we're a lot better. We're better as a country now tactically. We've lost a little bit of the enjoyment side of it. I think our era was the best era to watch in terms of football. Because you had the glamour and the great players, but it also had that little bit of bite on your bite as well.

48:42yeah you said luxury player and i've read bits of the book some extracts as well and there's a brilliant piece about you describing about when you're on the pitch and you can hear the noise of the seats yeah shutting yeah so obviously when you go when you go past when you glide past someone yeah people are getting up yeah you hear that all the seats going yeah yeah it's such a good way of describing so true how because you go on to being sterile now and people on phones and it's just becoming newer stadiums as well slightly more padded seats we're going to not much not much flick back yeah but it's so true though isn't it so you're on that pitch and you can hear that and then that must give you confidence to sort of gin can go again and yeah yeah we again Sam's like I just I told him everything and he's pushing me and I was like and then I was saying he gets players off he gets fans off their seat yeah and I'm thinking and he's like what was it like on your debut what was it like playing for West Ham and I said well actually what was really cool was that noise when you could do something that somebody couldn't do with a ball that oh make the crowd make that noise that like I loved that I thrived off that that sort of like probably like you know like you know like how these like actors are all a bit insecure and they like to hear the clap probably had a little bit of that into me as well so if I'd done something and it was like I got the ball I started driving at someone and it made that noise and Sam's writing it and he yeah and see you're not the first person I could hear that noise as well you know that even you'll know it as a fan as well as a fan you're like even if you're looking the other way all the seats go up you go oh what's happening and you make yourself look back I was a different side to that because I remember if someone played a pass through and I was in on goal and I heard the seats go fuck I'm going to miss this something's big's happened here i'm gonna balls this up did you did you kind of did you flirt with any other titles for this book um well uh yes um but the guys they're brilliant from orion publishers we talked about because i had the title last they know what it was going to be called and um they wanted to put misunderstood I don't feel misunderstood do you know what I mean because I feel blessed that I've had the career I had do you know what I mean so I don't feel misunderstood they wanted that and it was like outsider because I played on I'm like I didn't even feel like an outsider so I hope that people listen they say the title of a book is the most important thing because people are going to read that and think I want to read that what does that mean so I think we got it right yeah Joe what's it like obviously you know we've touched on this previous before but when you go to you know when you get make it into the West Ham team talk us about the differences between West Ham and Chelsea and what what went on mate so I look back now like again you don't know at the time right so I'm coming through at West Ham and there's like there's Neil Ruddock there's John Moncur there's Ian Wright there's Trevor Sinclair you know Harry Redknapp's the manager you know household names household names right big names but characters like proper proper characters and try and west i don't know anybody who's gone to west ham as a player and not enjoyed it i've gone you're in there like and you could be walking to chadwell leaf one day there'd be one geezer selling selling suits the other fellow selling tickets there was a ticket tout who used to sell tickets to the lads right i need to sell like fiat tickets concert tickets right and like the lads would go to the concert the ticket would be bad behind a post or something but you know being there monday morning like like it was stub hub like you could i remember there was turkeys for sale once meet at west ham like it's like so it's like an open market the news the journalists were there market yeah the journalists were there and that was just normal for me and it worked for west ham and everyone was it just felt like walking in I don't know I think with rose tinted glasses because it's my first experience in football but it just felt like we're from a family of market traders like I worked on the markets at Kentish Town so I like even now I like the vibrancy I like to be around people so going into West Ham as a kid it just was like it was like that walking in someone's trying to sell me a gold watch or something like mate let me have my scrambled eggs do you know what I mean it was like and that was how we played like we could beat someone 3-4-0 Paulo Di Canio you know great characters like and then my youth team had Jimmy Bullard you you know like so it was just it was just a fun club to play for nothing was planned no strategy just good people and I think the fans think of that era with a lot of fondness do you know obviously you wouldn't change your career I know you wouldn't but would there is there a point a feeling could you have stayed at West Ham your whole career and been a Mark Noble type character I know obviously you have to I think the club was slightly behind maybe where it got to at that time do you know what we got relegated on 42 points and I had like the club was in a bad way financially so they had to sell do you know what I mean like I had ambitions I was in the England squad I played like 10 games but I hadn't really hadn't got in and there was players playing on that left and midfield I think Kieran Dyer had it at the time Emileski played there he was centre forward great player but I thought I might need to leave here because I wanted to play for England I wanted to win trophies and you look at West Ham I come in as a fresh-faced 17-year-old and at 21 four seasons I felt quite experienced you know I was captain but I just felt like it's a short career I needed to know if I could play for England and play you know Champions League and win trophies and that so yeah no I just thought maybe in a different if the club had come with you do you know what I mean if you'd have Kev Carrick Defoe Lampard Rio that's my first ever football match I went to was seeing you plays part of that West Ham set with the players you just said there and you've been I think it was pretty sure it was Sunday 3-1 and I remember all of you celebrating and that image really sticks in my brain what was we doing celebrating do you remember you were all together like by the goal in front of the stand really okay like on top yeah yeah yeah we had a great team spirit like it was great it was like you look back on those players and those players you just said there do you know what it is though like we talk about football changing if you had a crystal ball and you went back there you'd go right five year deal Rio five year deal Frank Carrick Joe Jermaine glen johnson right bang and then you'd build around it and you'd know that them assets were gonna grow but i sometimes feel for terence brown the chairman who's a proper west ham fan right away right he's i think his business was um like pontins or butlins like caravan sites right so he's a wealthy man great businessman but then you've got like roman abramovich owning another club you got you know no chance you've got no chance to compete but if west ham would have kept everyone and built around it with the right signings we i think i finished fifth and seventh in two seasons at my four there you know so we had those good players at the club just never put it quite put it together what were the characters like like what was a day-to-day like i can only imagine ian wright you know neil ruddock and paolo dicalio in in one room together with john monker and harry ridknapp like mate how does it how does it work oh it's like it's just how does it work mate I don't know like just like again going back to how backward it was like I remember there being four bobble hats available for training right so you had to get in early if you wanted a hat that was your lot and and things like that so like you'd be allowed to be fuming if they didn't get the hat and I think Johnny Moncur come in once late and he's and Harry had said don't give Johnny his kit because he's late again for training and so the kit man wouldn't give me his kit and Johnny's thinking like he's just gone right I'm put his boots on and his socks and was just doing the warm up naked and he's like this is the day it's open training there's like fans watching and Harry's just shaking his head and he's going well you said I can't have my kit it's a fit love it it's just like it's a day to day basis I imagine things like this happening day to day is the right word I remember once I'd done Jimmy Bullard with a fire extinguisher once in the training ground right in his in his muge and he's laughing and thinking it might get me once it was like every time he saw me it was like you know like it was like there was the retribution weren't warranted I got this thing every single day I'm walking walking around corridors at Chablis yeah the pressure was real mate honestly like yeah put like you know I think someone stopped Bywater's car and hid it like on a roundabout somewhere didn't I tell him where it was for two like just stupid I mean listen I'm open to going to management so I don't they're like the tamer ones yeah but it was a free for all it was fun it was fun I remember meeting up with the under 21s and just obviously Carrick Defoe Stephen Bywater at the time yourself just trying to get like a sponge just say, look, tell me what happened this week.

58:39Unbelievable. But then you moved to Chelsea. Who was it? Was it Ranieri signed you? Ranieri. And I mean, what was it like when you arrived? Yeah. Well, listen, what I would say is Harleton's a car, the training ground. So I felt quite at home, Chad Belief. Like, it wasn't like I was going to some... Did you ever play there, Harleton? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I used to play all the time, yeah. Mate, I'll tell you what. one of the first training sessions I'm there and there's some geezer going you've got to leave I'm like mate what do you mean he said we've got there's the local men's hockey team that are using the dressing room Marcel Desailly Manuel Petit and all that a guy from some like Harlington Hockey chartered accountant from Hounslow got to play hockey and I'm like we're supposed to we're in the Champions League we're in the Champions League like people can't get their head around it I think there's a story in there as well.

59:35Verran, when he signed, I think it's in the book, there was a fella called Hamza who used to work for the club. He was a masser, but he was a black cab driver by trade. He'd just done a bit of massaging on the side. So Verran had to get picked up from the airport. So Hamza's picked him up. And then he's given him a massage. And he's gone in, done his medical. And he's the fucking black cab driver. Popping his hat. So, Ron's like, if Ron's played for Lazio and he's Man United, he must have asked the question, he said, why is the fellow that picked me up from the airport giving me a match on? Mate, that's like, so Chelsea, so it was nice, it was seamless because Chelsea was just, it wasn't the Chelsea of three, four years down the line where we was at Coburn and it was all ice baths and saunas and organic food and do you know what I mean?

1:00:22It was still, it was, yeah. But yeah, I think certainly because I always think about when JT came through because JT would have come through with Dennis Wise, Michael Dubry Frank Sinclair Adley Myers that kind of like that would have still been that core like similar to West Ham with a lot of fun and then obviously he's come through it it all so when it when was the moment that you you thought oh this is changing like because it wasn't straight away when Roman came in was it it was a couple of years maybe yeah do you know what so Roman's come in and by the way Chelsea finished fourth the year before Roman came in So there's a good team there.

1:01:01Galas, Terry, Jimmy, Ida, Frank was already there. You know, it was a good solid team. And then the money's like, I wouldn't say there was one moment, Crouchy, because it was like, that's already a good side. It was already a good side. And I knew I was going into a team better than the side I'd left. Do you know what I mean? Like I knew that because of the, you know, it was playing with Marcel Desailly and, and everything. I knew, I knew that. And it was like, it was more the people you see rather than any moment like the ground or anything like that like I remember going into training one day one of my first weeks in training you know you go to a new club it's always a little bit like you know you're trying to figure out who's the governor who's you know and Marcel was getting a a massage and he was having a rub and all these pictures out and I love Marcel he's a great geezer and he he had a picture of him with a world cup because he's sorry he was doing he was doing his book so he had to choose the pictures for his book so he's obviously brought him into training and there's a picture of him with the World Cup in his like sliders and just the cigar in my hand and now I'm thinking I'm playing with some proper players now and then I was just I think I chewed his ear off for about 15 minutes what's it like what's it down like you know what I mean and I because I was still 21 although I was experienced I was like I'm still in awe of these guys a little bit so did the penny drop when Jose coming is that when obviously when he come through the door and then he's done his press conference.

1:02:31And then after a few games, was that the moment where you've gone, this is where we're actually now going to be, we'll challenge for a Premier League now. Yeah, you went for a period of like, yeah, some good players. You might win a cup. You know, you get in the Champions League to then become in like a dominant force in English football. And you guys will know, like from playing for some big clubs, right? Sometimes you think there's something different, something in the culture is something changing. when Jose come in and I said it on air the other day Crouchy and I don't know like I see him like a Shankly like figure at Liverpool where you hit like obviously after Shankly there was Paisley and Fagan and the success continued but he walked through the door Jose and he had this like he had this aura about him training would change the revolution was the type of training we did you remember what we done at Chelsea all that that's all was it timed to the minute time to perfection, moving from one section to the other, demands on, on accountability on every part of the session.

1:03:35And, but then he had this swagger. He looked like he just rolled off a set in Hollywood, didn't he? It was Barnet, Suntan. He looked, and he just had, it was, and the lad just was, I was just feeding off it. Like I got to the point where I'd had a decent first season at Chelsea, made 50 appearances. Like we got to the semifinals, but there was something new about him. Like, and I'm writing the book and I'm thinking about it and he's just he's just had that he's just had that magic but he's the moment Chelsea and still to this day a lot of the success will still originate back to him walking through the door and Roman as well obviously yeah do you know when you know someone's got that kind of aura is when people want to when we meet up with England squads people want to know people ask questions you know like you meet up in a squad and you've got like David Beckham you know Rio Wayne Rooney they're asking questions about your club and I think that's when you know that you know the club is moving because you around different training grounds they'll be talking about what Chelsea are doing how they're doing it and I always remember you telling the story and I think I was on the periphery of the conversation but very much listening and when you said that he would say things like we're going to go one down today but don't just relax we'll end up winning three two or three and it would happen the best one he'd done was I thought this geezer's mystic Meg remember he was from the sun yeah yeah yeah he's incredible remember yeah of Meg yeah he said Paolo Ferreira who was a top player by the way top player couldn't score a goal no chance like he went Paolo scores today I'm like but like saying things like this mate I think he's got one goal in his Chelsea career I'm like yeah alright he said no I tell you that we've done the set pieces they're going to flick on and I remember Paolo scoring thinking wow what's going on here like this guy I remember being a bit spooked out by him and already you've admired this guy but does that give you as a team that must give you a superpower you think whatever is going to happen you start believing it and then that makes it happen even more also he's not just predicting there is he he's basically saying like I've sorted it yeah take it off yourself he said today the way the game's going to go we're going to go one down today he said I don't want you to panic because I've already told you you're going to go one down and then I remember you telling the story you do and no one panics because everyone's like we're going to win he's told us but that's why look that's why you write my story and that so many are fascinated by him and the relationship particularly the relationship I had with him because it was quite unusual and it was a bit spiky at times but he's a genius like and and i think people want me to say something different because some of the some of the how we had a treat is it treatment or how we managed me was in this day and age looks horrendous looks horrendous but and at the time i was i was a bit but looking back he was he nailed me he had me down to he had me eating at the palm of his hands honestly it was like as a player go through pretty walls for him.

1:06:53Do you know what I mean? I remember you saying to me when you'd go in because you haven't played for a couple of games and you'd go in bang his door down say to him right why am I not playing? And then he would say but I need you for this game and you said that was in two games time. So you went in fuming expecting to play the next game. He said he effectively dropped you for another two games but you've come out buzzing.

1:07:19How has he done that? Yeah, well, you do stuff like that. Like I remember, I scored the winner against Liverpool. And again, back in the day before social media, big games, I think it was the first, you don't know, Chelsea, Liverpool, or Man U Chelsea, them were the games were the big markers. It was the first marker of the season, about seven or eight games into a season. And they come to us, we scored the winner, won one nil. I'm walking around London like I'm Conor McGregor. I feel bee's knees, you're like, what a day what a day i'm buzzing right okay and uh the next day your phone's ringing have you seen what he said about you in the press conference you don't hear about it to the next day and he knew that of me that i could lose concentration like so he was he was on me i didn't track a runner after that and they could have scored and it was his way of telling me and i think if he by doing it in the media was probably he knew it would land do you know what i mean a bit more weight to it and he knew I wouldn't respond I wouldn't go within my shell and feel sorry for myself so but yeah it was um interesting how he managed us was there a was there a time where you thought oh he's gone too far there like he's embarrassed me in front of the lads and I didn't deserve that it was um not really not really like because I'm very straight I accept like you know i think we're from a different like a different era where you see you we'd seen we'd have seen punch-ups in dressing rooms and you know screaming and shouting and and then everything's all right so i think we're from a different era to that i wouldn't i don't think i got the worst the worst one i've ever heard and it was uh it was it was john obie it was the worst one and And this is, again, this is how, you know, so it was a friendly game.

1:09:15John was a top player as well and a great lad and I love him. But we didn't play well. I think he was up at Rangers. I played, yeah, I played. Remember when he said you're moving around the pitch like an elephant and he'd done the elephant impression. Do you remember what he was wearing? He was doing that. He went around the dressing room. Yeah. After the game, he had a towel on, flip-flops, toothbrush in his mouth and he was going around to everyone like what play today tops dog shit then he got to John Obey he said yeah I can't believe you just pulled that up he was like shit today shit move around like an elephant and then he started getting a trunk up wouldn't he he did fucking hell yeah I mean it's just like I think wasn't that in any other job in any other industry it's wrong but listen yeah it's it's it's just not like so that's probably the worst is that bad?

1:10:14I don't think it's bad I think it's just like you know that's alright yeah had worse yeah I've had worse all the usual stuff I've had your generic stuff you've never had any other manager do an animal impression I'm pretty sure I would have had a giraffe at some stage running around the beach like a baby giraffe I think remember we was in South Africa and you got out yeah yeah did I say that I got out I think you got out early I think someone caught me it looked like we're going to see Crouchy's day it was a running gag wasn't it and then I thought look this is going to be this is going to be a great gag but I was willing to die for this gag because I got out of the big van and went out into the outback whatever it's called what's it called on a safari yeah but I've got out well you got out the truck got out the truck because I thought the lads are going to love this one right so then I've no one's seen me so all of a sudden I've kind of made a bit of noise and started eating some of the

1:11:13started eating some of the tree and my couple of lads have turned around it's happening it's the lesser spotted giraffe in a pair of jeans and there's lions anything I thought it was worth it that's his dedication that's what he's about that's why I love him put his life on the line life on the line for a few giggles superb that's about the best part of that South Africa world cup me too mate me too just touch her on that before we I could genuinely talk to you all day it's great stuff just regards with your England career how did you feel it went where you're happy with, I mean, you've got a hell of a lot of caps.

1:12:06Yeah. It's one of them crowds, isn't it? Like, if you think about, if you speak into your kit, yourself as a young man, you said, you're going to play for England and you're only going to play once. You go, right, deal, give me it. Do you know what I mean? Then you're there, you want more. Go to World Cups. I think, I think three quarter, three quarter finals, you know, and it's, you know, Wazza getting sent off in 06, Portugal, and two, Brazil, do you know what I mean again so we lost to some good teams but um I loved it mate I loved it like the lads come on and they go oh they didn't like going away with England I loved it I was maybe because I didn't have the kids while I was playing for England but like going away and just playing pool playing table tennis playing football I did I love the banter like and I grew up I remember watching I can remember watching Gaza in Italian 90 ran this little telly in our house thinking I just want to do that so how could I as a 20 year old be moaning because I'm missing a couple of days shopping at Selfridges like I genuinely loved it I could get mid-round people I couldn't remember what you want to do like but yeah there you go but you use a social butterfly wasn't you as well you'd go and mix you talk to anyone like it didn't matter like I know there was a whole thing about United Liverpool but you just want to be around people as well yeah like like even I remember like the member of the massage room was just, Oh, the hub, the fit, the hub.

1:13:34But like, I was in there, I must've made, I thought a genie was going to pop out my backside. I must've had that free massages a day. So I just wanted to be the rub, rubs. I was getting like, I just wanted to be around it. And like you ordered the cups of tea and you'd like get the, I remember at the Lowry thinking of this is sort of, you order the cups of tea and they used to come like the, the waiter would come with the teas and coffees for everyone. And I thought, right, get me in. get me in no like where the towels were there's always a always a bunch of towels on the floor and uh i said to one of the masters get the geezer to pass you a towel i'll be under there and i'll grab his hand thinking he'd like shit himself and as he's come in he's gone would you pass one of them towels this fella's gone to get a towel i've just gone rah and he just looked at me put no effect nothing not scary just walked out and i'm thinking nothing I think, how could you not like doing that in your 20s?

1:14:29That's brilliant. Oh yeah. I love everything about England, playing, being around the place a lot. I know because I think you're the same as me, Joe, football fans first, right? So quite often, like, I would take myself out of the fact that I was a player and put myself in that nine-year-old who was watching Italia 90 and watching Gaza. And I'd go, right, I am now in this England squad. We're about to go to a World Cup and I'll be sitting in this treatment room and everyone's talking. You couldn't buy a room like that. You're in an auction for any money, right? And get them to speak openly about their careers, about their life.

1:15:08And we're sitting there with David Beckham, Frank Lampard, Stephen Gerrard, Wayne Rooney, Michael Owen, John Terry, Rio Ferdinand. You're sitting around in a room and everyone's talking really honestly because they know it's going nowhere. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I just thought, even in training, sit there and I'd watch Stevie spinging balls around. I'd watch Bex take three kicks. Lamps and Rooney are doing, you know, are taking penalties. I'm just like in awe of it. Yeah, yeah. And that's a blessing. I know some of the lads might not have had that. So we're lucky to have that. But I remember a moment I questioned whether I was good enough to play for England, right?

1:15:47Japan, we had this big, massive warm-up room. and Beckham's, I was in there like, because I was young, 2021, I wasn't starting. So I was like, I was in there playing head tennis with the lads and there's a clock about smaller than that dartboard and there was a massive room and we're like typical footballers. Let's see if we can hit this clock. So we're there just trying to ping this clock and then, and then Beck's just walked in and he's just got to put the ball down, three balls. First one clipped it from about 30 yards. second one smashed it and the third one just fucking I'm like this was against Argentina just before he went and scored the penalty remember but I remember being so deflated thinking I can't do that as he's done that I'm questioning I'm sitting on the bench thinking I'm never going to make it do you know what for me he was one of the players that I was most like in awe of and it wasn't because he was David Beckham I'm talking in awe of football wise yes because like I don't think he, because of maybe what he's become, I don't think he's looked on actually how good he was.

1:16:55I think the lads who trained with him in that England period there where he was in his prime, I mean, I watched him do things that no one could do. You know, like in the box, like the Rondo or whatever, I've seen him dink people in the box. I'm like fully grown six foot men, they're getting dinked. It's like you could open a can of worms on his right peg, just a little dink like that. and he'd do it regular outside the foot like inside the foot physically yeah like just the passing and the you know players he couldn't go past people and excite you like me but what he could do with his right foot was ridiculous yeah and again I'm with you what a player like and another when I scored my first goal for England I don't even know if this is in the book it might be I don't know I've scored it was a free kick and it's like a winning goal to win 2-1 he'd come off it's a fucking good free kick as well whipped it in the bin right so anyway he was always a bit of the statesman so you couldn't really no one really said anything to him so I was like but I've whipped this free kick first goal for England I've gone mad walking in and I've gone straight in there that's you off free kicks then son son as well son as well I've gone right oh no as soon as the words come out your mouth you're like trying to get back the captain oh i love that though but he would have loved yeah i think so he would have loved that you think about the players in that team like yeah who would fancy a free kick as well i know i just yeah pushed i don't know what i was doing i pushed a few off it yeah superb yeah but you used to but you answered at the start when crouchy first asked you a bit like i is kind of what it is yeah do you mean just because there wasn't that that your Desai cigar World Cup moment?

1:18:48Yeah, I mean, listen, the way I see it is we all wanted to win the World Cup, right? We all wanted to win, and there's very few men. There's 23 men every four years that get to do it. Like, so, Stevie said the other day about, I think he just got quoted saying, failures. Mate, it's a bit harsh, isn't it? Do you know what I mean? Because it's a real pleasure to play for England and you know we've all had success in our career at other you know won trophies and what not but yeah I mean it's the one thing I think if I did have a time machine I can go back and play a season or a tournament it would be a world cup for England do you know what I mean trying to win that because that's the that's the pinnacle yeah about the time when you're doing it do you a question for you as well Crouch at the time when you do it do you do you naturally have in your head like ah it's annoying that hasn't happened in this one but there's another chance do you always know there's another chance yeah you think so but you don't realise when the rug's going to be pulled like I never played for England after 2010 and I you know obviously I went to Liverpool that summer and I was never the same player again I'd had the knee injury do you know what I mean so your football's so as a someone who loves football like that was so tough do you know what I mean because I went to Liverpool got a great contract and everything but I couldn't do what I could do before and that really hurt me so that's part of my career that section of my career where it was like you're playing at like 80 % at best do you know what I mean that was tough and I never played for England again you know I think yeah so it is that side of the football is tough yeah it's where the time machine is useful yeah be good on it hurry up Elon Musk it's coming mate it's coming it's coming but listen Joe good luck with the book mate thank you luxury player you should go out and get it because obviously all the proceeds are going to Cherry and it's obviously a great story so thanks for coming on mate and good luck with everything you do mate top man loved it

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