John Obi Mikel: The Secret United Transfer Turned Kidnapping NIGHTMARE

0:00Chris Stark: Hello and welcome to that Peter Crouch podcast with me Peter Crouch, got a notorious SRD with me and Chris Stark and we've got Mr. John Obi Mikel with us. Thanks for having me. How are you mate? Amazing. Mate, you know what, this is the combination of something where we played in a Legends match recently and you were doing your pod right and I was doing mine and it was like I had the Liverpool players and he had the Chelsea players. We're like why don't we just team up right? Exactly, here we are. I'm going to come on your pod and you come on ours, I appreciate you being here.

0:28John Obi Mikel: I'm very happy to be here. I mean, your podcast is something that I've been obviously watching since before I even thought about starting my podcast. It's amazing to be here.

0:39Chris Stark: Good man, man. How are you enjoying the podcast world, by the way? I'm sure it's going great for you. It's going well.

0:45John Obi Mikel: I'm trying to push you guys. You know what I mean? Trying to get there, but no, it's going well. It's going well, obviously. We've only started about a year and a half now, almost two years, but it's going well. i think the one thing with podcast is it's the client is the guest you bring on once you can get good guests good stories and then you can be able to push your podcast and that's something that's happened obviously when you play against players managers and you keep that friendship after you finish playing you give them a ring oh you know like like jose mory i gave him a ring i was like boss i've got my podcast happening do you want to come on of course anything to support you so when you play and keep that relationship because you never know yeah that's so true yeah I think it's a great way of sort of staying in touch and sort of reuniting with people you might have played with or managed or been managed by.

1:33The other great thing about a podcast is it's just an excuse to do sort of silly shit that you probably wouldn't do if you didn't have a podcast. Do you know what I mean? You can dream up something and just because you've got a podcast, you get to be able to do it. I mean, how many things have we done like that? Oh yeah, so many. Where's the beers? I thought you didn't know.

1:52Chris Stark: Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're slightly early recording today.

1:55John Obi Mikel: we're just on the brakes quite heavy weekend you can imagine anything you want to do no of course gives you a reason to do of course it's a great platform isn't it i think when when i started as well one of my main idea was to give uh was to give uh was to create a platform whereby ex-players like us you know can be able to to to tell our stories stories that we've never been told before stories that nobody's ever had before and i thought about it was like i still want to be the game obviously but it's coaching what i want to do do i want to be you know or is that something that i want to do something totally different so i thought about the podcast and i get to analyze the game i get to see give my opinion i know a lot of people don't like my opinion but you got to be real you got to be truthful to yourself if you want your podcast to uh to succeed and that's something that i've done i know sometimes people think it's harsh criticism but it's not remember when we played of course we never had social media to be able to defend ourselves but these guys today they have it so once you any little criticism they come on social media and try to defend themselves which is fine but I think for me to still be in the game is the podcast you know I talk about the game we have our Mondays where we talk about where we do taking the Mikkel where we discuss taking the Mikkel I like that yeah taking the Mikkel

3:16Chris Stark: Yeah. Fucking sorted out, Ross. You know what I mean? It's the kind of shit we need to be coming up with.

3:22John Obi Mikel: You know, when we discuss games, discuss what's happening around the, you know, around the game and no, it's been fun.

3:28Chris Stark: It's been fun. Yeah. Nice. And listen, there's so much I want to get into. You just mentioned, you know, Mourinho coming on your podcast. They just had such a good career. Yeah. There's so much to get into, but I'd like to formally apologise to you. Oh, I want to hear that. For, for one of the, I think that was the worst tackle I ever produced. And I don't know what came over. I'll tell you, can I just explain myself? Obviously, the apology comes from the bottom of my heart. I apologise. It was a terrible tackle. And if you don't know, if you haven't seen it, it's worth a Google. I was, I think it was the Carling Cup then.

3:58Chris Stark: It was the League Cup, I remember. And I dived into a tackle, but I remember the reasons behind it was you were kind of like just in front of me, like any long ball that was coming to me. And usually there's like a, I have like Leon Britton or someone, you know, like a Joe Allen around me. This is the tackle here. I've dived into the tackle but obviously that looks awful and I've lost the plot completely but the red mist really came over me and the reason was because you were constantly kind of in front of my toes standing on my toes you know when the ball came up to me I'd like to chest it or kind of head it you were too strong couldn't get round you and it was kind of immovable and I just couldn't get into my game couldn't get into my room

4:40John Obi Mikel: we knew that obviously when you have JT behind you obviously he was behind you I was like okay how do we get Crouchy out of the game? Because we know the long ball is going to come. He likes to chest it, bring people into play. So obviously the plan was for me to be in front of him. You know, don't let the ball get to him. Even if it gets to him, then try to dig it off him. So we tried every tactics that we can just to get him out of his game. Because obviously the long ball is going to come. He's very good. He can chest it or he can just flick it. Whichever way to get you out of the game. and for me that tackle there wow I mean if you look at it there that's like more than two feet it was like

5:20Chris Stark: no I'm jumping like waist high honestly genuinely I genuinely really am sorry we're having a joke but I obviously but the reason behind it was because you you kind of had me in your pocket right you and JT between you dominated me the whole game right yeah and I I'm not a good sandwich right there's not enough meat on me so yeah I struggled

5:43John Obi Mikel: technically though, once you're able to get it on your chest, you're very technically, and that's something I don't think you got a lot of credit for. Technically, you're very good. Once the ball's on your chest, you can flick it whichever way you want, life right, whatever. And that's where you bring in, obviously, Stevie G into play. And we know that once you get Stevie in play, that's it, you know, then it's difficult to defend. So the aim was to make sure that we sandwich you and make sure that ball doesn't come to your chest or you don't flick it because that's what JT is master at. John White, he's just in front of him.

6:14John Obi Mikel: But then you're on his toes and everything. Oh, I'm terrible. So when he gets that red card, how do you react?

6:20Chris Stark: Because you, we can't see that. Well, I've gone past the nibble there. I've gone, I've lost it completely. So I felt like the ref wasn't giving me enough and obviously they're playing the game doing really well but I kind of just lost my head. Ref's not giving me anything. These are dominating me. We're not winning and I've just lost it. And then actually after the game, the red miss was so, I'd lost it completely. After the game, I think I might even have said something like ah he's diving

6:46John Obi Mikel: it doesn't look like is that I know

6:48Chris Stark: and I'm like what the hell was I even seeing I remember being I was on the bench because that was right by the benches wasn't it I remember being there and obviously I've known you since we were kids that's just not in my nature and I want to sit on that well because it was a bad tackle but also like you would never never do that never expect it from you I know I just it was so so out of character so yeah apologies

7:09John Obi Mikel: he did miss I completely missed you shows you I'm not even good at that. No, when I saw, when I, you know, when it happened, I was like, whoa, I was, I'm so lucky that he's missed. Like you said, he was just right in front of the bench. No, not good. No, obviously it was the game. We were trying to get him off his game. I understand he got angry. He was pitched off and he was, you know, it wasn't going his way. And yeah, I mean, everything we did back then to win, didn't it, you know, the game was so competitive. the kids now they're so soft tackles is not what you see in the game right now it's just taking off the game but I I just think back then you know those are the kind of tackles you enjoy because the derby game is Chelsea v Liverpool or Chelsea v Manchester United we see those tackles now you don't see them anymore I think it's just taking out of the game which is not good

7:59Chris Stark: How much did you relish those battles? Like I remember like certainly when I was at Liverpool for that period like there were some serious battles like the semi-finals of the Champions League and some of the cup games some league games were intense like yeah good times right you enjoy you relish that

8:12John Obi Mikel: oh yeah i mean listen liverpool were always always you remember it was always tough to play against you guys you know back then you know you you have stevie g you have alonso mascherano you the midfield was crazy every time we went to anfield to play against liverpool the atmosphere is crazy if it's under the light it's crazy champions league night it's it's and you guys know how to rev up your fans, you know. You know, Mascherano goes in with the first tackle. Stevie goes in with the first tackle. Alonso, you know. It was such a great, intense game that we love being part of. And that's just what made the game so beautiful then because the intensity was there.

8:53John Obi Mikel: The tackles were there. The managers were fighting against each other. All those battles, you know, on the touchline as well was absolutely great. And I enjoyed that time. You could feel, I remember the year that I was there, the season that I was there, we played I think we played Chelsea played Liverpool quite a lot that season but you could feel it the start of the week yeah the atmosphere changed straight away the build up to that game was like whether it was a midweek one or it was the weekend everyone's mood you could see in training was like they was at it they was tuned in because it was a big rivalry oh it was a big rivalry yeah big games big games

9:26Chris Stark: but I mean you you're that team that you played for around that time yeah I mean some of the midfielders as well like you played with they're like do you play McAuley and Lampard Lampard Essien Essien yeah not just when he came in we were like who's this guy

9:48John Obi Mikel: got a number nine right tell us he's number nine we're like City is this the only number you can find number nine no but it was great you know City came in what was he like around the place lovely guy lovely guy you know he trained hard he competed hard he wanted to be on the pitch starting 11 and we, you know, and credit to him. You know, sometimes you started the games ahead of me, ahead of, which was what we wanted back then. It was all about competition. It was all about competition. That's what the midfield was about. Yeah. It was clearly about like, uh, you know, my kids. That's what I mean, that team,

10:22Chris Stark: like we had Robin and Duff and like, they're unplayable at times. We used to obviously do rondos before, before training and, like it used to be sort of like the English lads and like some of the, European lads then they should be like the African lads so in this one in terms of midfielders you have like Lampsey and Balak and they'll be in there and then if there's an odd one or the odd numbers I'd have to go down to their one I hate it because I used to go in there and it'd be like him if you get body checked by him Essien or the RR you knew about it and it was like boom I was just walked down again oh my god it's time to get me down there

11:02John Obi Mikel: no even the runners as well was very competitive remember we used to have sometimes we used to have fights even in rundles yeah you talk about rundles or you talk about fight for side games it was just the competitiveness everybody wants to be come the weekend you want to be in that start in 11 that was how it was we competed with each other we pushed each other in training tackles flying in fights between you know I remember Balak and Solomon Kalou we just wanted to win we did everything to win also because Did they kick off there and fight together? Oh, they did. I've never seen Kalou lose it the way he lost it.

11:38John Obi Mikel: Kalou, you know, Kalou's a very quiet guy. Very quiet guy. But you know, Bali, Balak is very, he's a huge, tall guy. He's a unit. Yeah. And he likes to let you know that he is, you know, he uses it very well. He comes to you, looks at you, he's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm Michael Balak. You know what I mean? But I don't know what happened that day. Kalou lost it. And for Kalou to go at Balak, like, actually, like both of them was he throwing punches throwing punches everybody came and then got in and separated them and Kalou was it's gone red you know sometimes you lose it and you go and I was already inside we did a warm down so he's a very very good friend of mine Nona yeah and somebody came to me he's like oh your brother is fighting outside I'm like what he said Kalou he's having a fight with Balak I'm like a fight Solomon Kalou picked on Michael Balak yeah so he came back here and I was like what happened he never told me what happened because he was so angry got in the shower showered left gone went home crazy

12:40Chris Stark: the thing is that's easily overspilled because you're all winners right the thing about Chelsea at that time you had so much talent but you couldn't you couldn't push you around you were strong you were fast you were good defensively but you could all play right it was such a good team

12:56John Obi Mikel: I think that's the thing though sometimes when we on the tunnel we look at the teams that we're going to play against you know you look at us you look at the height john terry frank lampard did you drop with peter jack if i'm playing i'm there michael balak uh michael esien the unit and we it's not like we're slow a couple of us like me i'm quite slow but the rest of them you know physically and they they're quick they're fast so you look at where how can you beat us how can you beat us when we go play against Arsenal, when we look at them, that's why we call them kids. No more is like, you need to make sure you smash those kids.

13:34John Obi Mikel: When we go play against Arsenal and we see them on, you know, in the tunnel says Fabregas. Yeah. Okay. Good on the ball. But we know we can muscle around, we can push him around and we can play there as well. So when we have the ball physically, we know we can dominate, but when we have the ball, we're good on the ball and we can, we can cost you problems. We can, we can score goals. And that's something that we had.

13:55Chris Stark: you know when you go through that like when you're looking around that dressing room and I'm thinking of the characters now in that dressing room I don't think you see as much characters these days but you look at every single one you must have felt invincible at times because there was an air of that like when we went to games I think at times we got the better of you at Liverpool like in the Champions League in a one-off game but over the course of a Premier League season I think you were so far ahead

14:19John Obi Mikel: oh yeah yeah yeah we know like with the sheer quality that we have and the physicality that we have in that team. Sometimes when you look at, when we go into games, it's impossible for a team to compete with us. It's just impossible. But where we always have problems though, is when we go play against like the likes of Stoke, you know, Hall City, because these guys, they can also be very, very physical. Sometimes we do have it very tough there, but we still know because of our quality with the ball, we know we can, you know, we're going to win the game. Yeah, no, we were very powerful, good on the ball, technically good, power speed michael esien you know through the middle frank lampard as well you know these are guys that can win you games at any time and then maloud as well came into the team as well he was also strong big powerful so you look at all around where can you the only weak the only i call it

15:13Chris Stark: weak one it's actually cold but he's still very strong very strong he's not the biggest but he's

15:19John Obi Mikel: the quickest he's one of the best defenders ever so he's probably the only little you say little guy in the team but I mean the biggest thing for me when I signed for Chelsea was not just how good tactically there was but how everyone was had each other's backs so if there was any like if there anyone sort of squared up with anyone or if there was anything in on the pitch that ever happened you'd have four or five behind you right behind you I mean it was never sort of one left behind at all and that probably stemmed from the manager as well didn't it him saying listen we're all in everyone's in together yeah Mourinho Mourinho used to tell us that listen why is it that he kicked to your teammate and you're walking away.

15:55John Obi Mikel: Go there, go to the referee, scream at him, get in their faces. And that's something over the time we learned it. So if you kick somebody, before you know it, we're all around you. We start pushing you. We're all in your face. We start, you know, we go up against you. And we did that and we got much, much better when we obviously facing the likes of United. Because United, they were, for us, we wanted to knock them off their perch. We wanted to take that, whatever it is, to be at the top. And every time we played against them, you know, Rooney, Rio, Postgoals, you know, these guys, they wanted to be the best.

16:31John Obi Mikel: We wanted to be the best. So for us, we had to find each and every way of trying to dominate the opening. And that's what Mourinho installed in us. He finds a weak point. Once he gets that weak point, he tells you, yeah, that's the weak point. Make sure you exploit it. And we did that pretty.

16:48Chris Stark: How good was he, Mourinho? Obviously, you worked with some tremendous managers at Chelsea throughout your career. and elsewhere as well. But was he the best?

16:57John Obi Mikel: No, he's not good. No, Mourinho, fantastic guy. He brought you to the club. Yeah, fantastic guy. Amazing. Not just a coach, but as a human being as well. He's somebody you can speak to. He's somebody you can connect with. But obviously has his ways of trying to get the best out of players. Sometimes did he cross the line? Of course he did. Of course he did cross the line sometimes the way he spoke to players, especially younger players. but it was just that era of him trying to get the best out of players. He did that with Mo Salah when he had a go at him. You know, I think it was a game we're playing.

17:33John Obi Mikel: Had a go at him in the dressing room and Mo Salah started crying and then he took him off. Sometimes when you have a go at players, you just have a go and take them off. Or you have a go and let them go back into the game and try to correct whatever mistake it was. But he does that and then tells you, oh, you're not going back in. You know, it's a double one, isn't it? Was that a little test When he'd done that To Mo Salah Was that him Testing him to see How far he could Push him Yeah of course Of course How far he can push him He did that with me First when I joined the club I was late For a meeting He took me out of the team For a month Really Took me to the reserve team I was training with the reserve team He said This is not Nigeria anymore You are here with the big boys You're in the big leagues You can't be late Took me to reserve I was with the reserve team For like a week and then I came back.

18:22I was never late again. But then when he welcomes you back, is that sort of stuff forgotten or does he kind of keep it as a little thing to remind you? Like, how did it work?

18:33John Obi Mikel: Because he knows that that might get the best out of you. Once you come back into the team, says, okay, have you learned your mistake? Are you ready to work? Are you ready to win? Are you ready to be part of this team? He has a conversation with you and if you're ready, then you're ready. You're ready to go. And I had to learn pretty quickly knowing where I am right now. This is Chelsea Football Club. And when he did that with Mo Salah, yes, Mo Salah didn't succeed at Chelsea, but I think that has lived in his head. What happened with Mourinho has lived in his head. That's why he went to Roma, he went to Italy and became this machine of a player that he is today.

19:09John Obi Mikel: And that's why we've seen the best of Mo Salah, the same with Kevin De Bruyne. You know what I mean? Mourinho was very, very harsh on these guys. But he knows what they can produce. he know they can give more and he was trying to get that out of them mentally maybe they were not strong enough to be at a club like Chelsea back then they needed to go away somewhere lesser develop and then now obviously we see

19:31Chris Stark: Did you train with both of those players at Chelsea? Did you, I mean you must have seen because I remember Gareth Bale going for Tottenham and he was he was going for that period where he didn't win he was playing at left back and he struggled for confidence he got some injuries he couldn't win and everyone was like maybe he needed to leave and he ended up being the gareth power that we know right and with mo's and kevin de boire you must have seen glimpses where you were like these are unbelievable oh yeah oh yeah we yeah we

19:58John Obi Mikel: could see that obviously with mo we know he was fast it was very very fast but i just think his his uh last end product wasn't quite there and that's something morino was trying to get the best out of him but he just couldn't get at chelsea probably because of obviously the players that were there in front of him.

20:16Chris Stark: He just couldn't find a way

20:18John Obi Mikel: to improve that aspect of his game. But whilst he went away and he went to Roma and he developed himself and then became the most that we saw today. Yes, we did see that. Kevin De Bruyne, we did see that in training, how talented he was. But the problem with Kevin back then, you can straight away tell that mentally, he wasn't strong enough to be at Chelsea. Mentally, no. He was always sulking. He was always angry during training. after game because he didn't play comes in the next day, the mood was down, but we could see the wrong talent with Kevin and that's why when you watch Kevin today, for me it's a joy to watch Kevin, you know, the passes and everything obviously amazing, amazing.

20:59Chris Stark: So let me just talk to you like how you kind of make it you're in Nigeria, right? I think it was maybe a youth tournament or something where you got spotted. How do you end up being in Nigeria and then go get into Norway how does that happen and that must have been a clash of cultures right that must have been very different for you how much time do you have oh no I'll just call the long show you stop no I mean I played for under 17 uh world cup for

21:30John Obi Mikel: Nigeria I think it was in Holland or something like that I played under 17 and then that's where I got spotted. And there's this noise about this kid from Nigeria. I know you met me at Chelsea when I was playing defensive midfield. I wasn't like that. I was a much, much better player. You played further forward, right? Oh, further forward. I was very technically, very good, creative, very, very good. Was this the same tool that Messi was in as well? No, that was on the 20. Ah, okay. So on the 17, I played. Messi's 17, is earlier? Yeah, this was earlier. It was like 15, 16. Like the story, like everywhere in Nigeria, everybody already knew.

22:05John Obi Mikel: So there was a buzz around the country, right? This is the next kid. JJ O 'Kochen needs to go. This is the next kid coming up. So I played the tournament and that's where United, the noise started ringing everywhere. Imagine this. I was in the hotel with the national team. I was about 15, 16. There was an agent from Ajax, Holland, that came to the hotel with a briefcase. I think it was about$500 ,000 briefcase. sitting right next to him. He came, he kept asking everybody, where is Jonobe Mikhail? Where's his room? Because nobody was telling him. And everybody already know about this story. So the head of the FA in Nigeria said, if anybody asks about where Mikhail is, don't let agents into the hotel.

22:52John Obi Mikel: If anybody asks where he is, just tell them you don't know where he is. You don't know his room number. You don't know how to get in. If they want to get in touch, let them come through me. So this agent obviously was going around asking, where's Mikhail? Where's Mikhail? Had a briefcase of about 500 ,000. like I actually want to sign you right now you know you have this money you know this money is is this cash for you yes for me for my family wow he's a brave man oh he's a brave man just wanted to exploit everything you know and he said listen this money is for you you can sign right now this can change your family's life and I said kid as well 500 ,000 I was like whoa whoa whoa but I I already know that the head of the FA will not let anything happen because United already got in touch with him.

23:36John Obi Mikel: So obviously then after that tournament, United took me to Manchester. That's where I had trials. United, I trained with Roy Keane, Oskos, Nicky Bott and all these guys, Van Nistelrooy.

23:47Chris Stark: How old are you at this point?

23:48John Obi Mikel: I was about 16.

23:50Chris Stark: 16, you're playing with those types of players at 16. How did you fare?

23:55John Obi Mikel: Oh my God. I didn't train with... I sometimes train with the U team, but mostly Fergie always had me come, come over and train with the first team. You know how sometimes I always train with the first team and oh my God, amazing. Amazing to watch those guys, the way they train back then, Paul Scholes pinging the ball, right, left and center, Nicky Bortz with tackling Roy Keane. So it sounds like Fergie liked you as well.

24:22Chris Stark: So how, I mean, how does this, how does this happen now then? Or what? I mean, in hindsight, you make the right decision, but how do you not sign for United? How does that happen? There's a picture of you holding the shirt, right?

24:35John Obi Mikel: Yes, I did sign pre-contract, obviously. So, yeah, long story short, then I trained for United a few times. I played the under-20. That's where me and Messi, he came first. I came second. And then after that, I then, Chelsea then came back to Nigeria, knew that I went home for holidays from Manchester. So they sent an agent. He came, sort of convinced me to go to Chelsea. Young manager coming to Mourinho, building something special at the club. United already won it all. Shall I go somewhere else and create my own history and be part of history? Thought about all that. Okay, let me go trials at Chelsea.

25:14John Obi Mikel: I went for trials at Chelsea. Claudio René really liked me. Romain Abramovich straightaway liked me. It's like, okay, we need to keep this kid. But we don't want to send him back to Nigeria because he's not 18 yet. when you come from Africa you have to be 18 before you sign a professional contract so Chelsea sent me to Norway to go and stay in Norway study and play right okay so you're a Chelsea no no no listen Genoa is so interesting though no because

25:38Chris Stark: there was so much buzz around this transfer I remember it myself so clearly like all the little things that went on so is that so Chelsea was sort of blocking everyone else by sending you to Norway yeah because

25:51John Obi Mikel: they didn't know where I didn't want anybody to know where I will be. So they sent me to Norway. So they literally sent you around the world. Yeah, sent me to Norway and got a couple of Nigerian players, young players to go there with me so I don't feel homesick. So I have people around me to talk to and be with. So I stayed with those guys. I go to school in the morning. I train with the team. And then when I became 18, so Chelsea's been looking after me all this time. That's a lot of trust, isn't it? Like you're putting into Chelsea there, like whether it's Roman or Jose or the people behind it to go look is this plan really going to come that I eventually do come to Chelsea?

26:28Yeah. In a couple of years, right? Is that about two years? Yeah, it went off about two years.

26:33Chris Stark: I got like 500 questions so I'm bound to ask you about. One of them is how does Alex Ferguson take that news?

26:41John Obi Mikel: Oh, I think he didn't take it really well. That surprises me. He still hasn't forgiven me. Really? I think I saw him, I think it was last year I saw him. And the first time I saw him after that, for such a long time. So I went up to him and I said, he's like, yeah, the one that got away. I was like, yeah. I said, have you forgiven me? Because I was like, of course, it's been a long time. Yeah, forgiving you now. But Faginem forgives. He never forgives. But no, that was how it happened. Long story short, to start everything out. So I was at Linoslo. I played a game. I became 18, I played a game, and then Fergie and United knew where I was.

27:22John Obi Mikel: So they again sent their agent down to Oslo with a contract worth about a million pounds. You know what I mean? And said, oh, now the boss has seen you, you have to sign again. As a young kid, you know what I mean? I was like, okay, well, you know, what can I do? Manchester United. So I signed a pre-contract. I signed a pre-contract. And then Chelsea, everybody then heard about what's happened. And then Chelsea sent their agent to come down to Oslo. And that's when the kidnap happened. And there was a massive announcement in Oslo saying, if anybody knows where Jono Bimichel is, can you report to the police?

28:01John Obi Mikel: Because he's been kidnapped. It was crazy.

28:04Chris Stark: Okay, okay. So you said kidnap there like it was, you know, like that was a normal thing, right? What actually happened with the story? Where did you go? Because the club lean, the manager back then was an ex-United player,

28:21John Obi Mikel: Manchester United player. I forgot his name. So United told him to make sure that they take me somewhere to a hotel and lock me up. Yeah, to keep you safe away from everybody. And that's when nobody knew where I was. They took my phone away from me. I couldn't make any phone call. I couldn't tell anybody where I was. So the football club had taken the fight? Man United had taken your phone. I wouldn't, well, it was the lean Oslo club. But under the direction. And that's how Chelsea heard about it. Straight away, they sent their agents, came down to Oslo, started looking for me everywhere. So my agents just, I don't know how he found out which hotel I was staying, came there, took me out of the hotel, went home, packed my bag.

29:10John Obi Mikel: We had media all around my house. we jumped by the back door fence and that's how I was smuggled into London. Smuggled into London, it's like a Jason Bourne movie.

29:21Chris Stark: But how do you deal with that as a young kid like that, having that kind of media storm and some of the biggest clubs in England and of course the rest of Europe as well fighting over you?

29:33John Obi Mikel: Oh yeah, I mean, it was a good thing but also crazy thing because I just wanted to play football and I knew I was missing a lot of football and I came to London. I couldn't play for Chelsea. I couldn't play for Manchester United. And then FIFA tried to get involved to see how can we solve this problem because he's a talented young player. We need him to be playing football and I want to play football. And FIFA tried for a year to get it sorted. United said, no, he's our player. He signed a pre-contract. He's our player. He's coming to United. Chelsea was like, no, we took him to Norway and we've been looking after him and his family for the past six, seven months.

30:08John Obi Mikel: so they both had something to to say but fifa was okay but we need the boy to play football fifa tried for a year couldn't get it sorted and then finally the the english fa got involved invited me to the fa here in london invited fegie fegie said listen i just need 30 minutes with the kid alone nobody in the room just me and him i will try to convince him to come to manchester signited because this is the club that's good for him so i went into the room with fergie my agent was sitting outside before i went into the meeting said whatever he says to you just shake nod your head and say nope i'm not coming went into the meeting and he was saying john boy what is it is it money tell me i will give you more money the players want you roy kinney's asking where are you postcodes they ask him where's this kid we need him at the club um i said boss i can't i can't come to manchester it's like why why i could see him getting red you know he was sitting at the edge of the table i was sitting at this edge of the table i thought i was gonna get a headdrair but no so after 30 40 minutes he couldn't uh and then he left uh and then after a week or so we got an offer they said okay now we understand okay the kid doesn't want to come but you have to pay 16 million so we paid Chelsea paid 14 million to I think to United so about 3 or 4 million to Linoslo so when so when you're in that room with Sir Alex is there not one little bit where he's saying everything I think there's a lot of people that would break there yeah like was there any any chance that you was gonna just go okay or no no Because before that time, it's a long story.

31:56John Obi Mikel: Before that time, I already met up with Mourinho. I met up with Roman Abramovich. This was, again, an undercover meeting because I wasn't supposed to meet with any of them. There was a time a car came, picked me up from my hotel. This was like a Jazebun movie. I met with Mourinho. A car came, picked me up from my hotel and drove me like 30, 40. About one kilometer, two kilometers, it stopped me off. Is this in London now? Yeah.

32:23Chris Stark: Where did you meet? Sid's met at Mourinho's house.

32:26John Obi Mikel: Yeah, somewhere. It's not Mourinho's. I think it's Roman's house.

32:29Chris Stark: Roman's.

32:30John Obi Mikel: Somewhere outside London. The car comes and drives me about one kilometre and stops me and says, okay, another car is going to come pick you up. No way. Changing cars. Another car comes, pick me up. Until I got to the house. It was crazy. So I got there. That's why I met Mourinho. He was like, we want you. I want you at the club. I want you at this football club. the owner wants you. You can see we're going through all this because we want you at a club. And for me, when you have a club that's fighting so hard to keep you and to have you at a football club, for me, I only knew there's only one place that will end up at Chelsea.

33:04Wow. Did Roman offer a suitcase or a watch?

33:11John Obi Mikel: What's he done here? The contract was much better. The contract.

33:16Chris Stark: Fair play.

33:17John Obi Mikel: He's had a lot for you though, isn't he, Roman? No, he was always there for the players. whether you needed a boat for a party or whatever you needed if you're somewhere on holidays he offers his boat to his boat to the players if you need a boat for a party it's not a bad thing is it tell me you know the boat was always there for you know for the players to use I reckon he has more than one so yeah why not

33:39Chris Stark: why not and obviously you got you know what's it 90 odd caps for Nigeria you know you won things for your country that must be so special to kind of you know to you obviously immense pride to have represented olympics as well yeah yeah what was

33:54John Obi Mikel: your favorite moment for nigeria oh listen you we play everything we win the premier league the champions league but you know it's always special when you win something with your with your national team always special you know i've always said that my african combination i'll rank it together with the champions league it's always special and when you see the joy that it brings to not just you and your family but the people of the country you know in africa we go crazy about football football is everything you know we have dd drug but stop a war because of because of football you know because of football that's how massive it is for us and then sometimes well that's why i responded to jimmy carrigan the way i respond i responded to him when he tried to discredit a tournament that people die for you know people go crazy for and i shed my blood and years to win it for nigeria you can't come i respect the european tournament don't discredit our tournament you know what i mean it is still our tournament our people love and cherish it so um no it's massive it's huge and for me to finally win win that with nigeria was huge what

35:01Chris Stark: was that like i mean where was where were you when you won it and um and what was that party like and after the game when you when you finally get hands on the party was crazy especially when we go back

35:11John Obi Mikel: to nigeria we go back to nigeria millions of people outside the street millions of people you know people didn't sleep people were screaming shouting dancing music were playing everybody was getting drunk lined up the whole street it was absolutely crazy and and i've always said it for me growing up i was watching the african nation that's one of the tournaments that inspired me to be a footballer watching jejo kota kanu playing these tournaments i told when i grow up i want to playing this tournament. And to finally win it with Nigeria was something absolutely special. We went to the president's house.

35:47John Obi Mikel: You know, we got a nice reception. We got offered a massive plot of lands each. I don't know where I know. I don't think I know where mine is. But it just shows how much that was appreciated. You know what I mean? The crowd you say a lot of times when you played for England in that generation about the pressure of the England players had. but what was it like playing for for nigeria at that time as well because like you say there it's it's more than football is it to the people out there like you just said there about the competition but did you feel huge pressure because the person you are and the personality you are you like you laugh you joke and when you've played football you're so calm but did you feel real pressure playing for oh yeah definitely i think 2013 2012 was when i the pressure started mounting because I was winning, obviously I was winning everything with Chelsea.

36:38John Obi Mikel: And then the country was like, oh, you keep winning with Chelsea. You never win anything with us. When are you going to win something with us? You know, you need to win something. And that pressure kept coming, not just to me, but to my family, to my brothers, my sisters, my parents. Oh yeah, your son, he keeps winning with this club, his club in Europe, he never wins anything. You know what I mean? And sometimes when people say that, they say that's a joke, but it's not a joke. And then it started to get more and more serious. I could feel the pressure starting to come. I was like, okay, I need to do something here.

37:08John Obi Mikel: And obviously being in such a fine form winning the Champions League in 2012, I was like, I need to take that into that tournament in 2013 to make sure that I win the African Cup of Nation. And going into that tournament, I was like, whoa, this has to be the time. I have to make sure I win it. Definitely have to make sure. And to go through that tournament, having such pressure, the whole country saying, Mikel this is the time you have to win it you have to win it coming up against you know Didier Drogba and Ivory Coast semifinals Yaya Torre Didier Drogba Solomon Kalou and to blow them away in the semifinal and then to go on in the final to win it was something absolutely fantastic I couldn't tell you how I felt I just felt a little bit more than that when I won the Champions League because of how much it meant to the people of Nigeria

38:01Chris Stark: it was just something yeah i mean i've played in nigeria i went my under 20 world cup was in nigeria yeah and there was a lot i think there was a few issues in the country at the time and a lot of players pulled out thought it was a bit dangerous or what what have you and i i was like look i'm going like oh because i was on the i was kind of in between like i wasn't fully in the start in 11 you know so if you pulled out i went 100 i don't care what's going on over there I'm coming, right? But the people were so, like, accommodating. They love English football, right? So the minute we pulled up and the England flag, everyone, like, stops to cheer.

38:37Chris Stark: Everywhere we went, it was like, England, England, England, right? And when you play for a Premier League club now, and I've been back with Kanu when we were at Portsmouth. And that man is a legend over there, right? Oh, my God. Kanu's a legend. Everywhere he went, right? He is a legend, yeah. We used to call him the king at Portsmouth.

38:55John Obi Mikel: he's still the king in Nigeria. man.

38:58Chris Stark: Unbelievable. No,

38:59John Obi Mikel: but Kanu obviously paved the way for me growing up. Kanu and JJ.

39:03Chris Stark: Are they the two? Yeah,

39:04John Obi Mikel: they're the two that paved the way for us growing up. And, and, and, you know, I've always said it, you know, people say, oh yeah, but Mikel, you won so much, you were so much successful than they are because you won so much and they never did. But Kanu did win, obviously won the Champions League and the Premier League with Arsenal. But JJ, with so much talent that he had, he didn't manage to win anything. But, you can't, take that away from him he was a fantastic fantastic unbelievable player unbelievable player unbelievable player so those guys for me you know they will always remain that that the guys that paved the way for me i watched them grow they were my idols growing up but nigeria for us football is everything people die for football people you know they don't have money to eat but they will they will go to watch the game you know what i mean they don't have money to but they will want to know what's happening they will buy an airtime just to know exactly what's happening with football you know it's it's it's absolutely crazy and we appreciate that so to finally win that nation's cup with the national team for me oh it's something special i know okay we're not probably not going to win the world cup so um i was going to ask you i was going to ask you how

40:12Chris Stark: how far away is an african team from a from a world cup like not just nigeria like africa as a continent how close you know can they who's the closest i think we keep pushing i think what

40:24John Obi Mikel: we have to do, first of all.

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42:14John Obi Mikel: the people who organize these tournaments, the people who are on top. And they're right to look at it that way because it's not run properly. It's not run properly. You know, you need the academies to run properly. You need the younger generation to get the best facilities to be able to improve. And we don't have all that. Do we have the money to do that? Of course we do. Of course we do. Nigeria is one of the richest countries in the world. We have loads of oil. You know what I mean? If we can invest into that to make sure that the facilities for the young generation or even for the top players coming back home to play for the national team.

42:50John Obi Mikel: Sometimes you go, I know you must have seen it, Alexi Wolby shared maybe a couple, you know, him sharing a bed with one bed. You know, that's not what you want. You want to go to play for your national team and you want to feel comfortable. You want to make sure that you've been looked after properly to be able to perform. But why doesn't that happen, do you think? why why have those changes not been as effective so far because you don't have the right people running it you don't have people that don't know anything about football they sit there year after year you know they control everything they don't want to let go the power the money you know that they get from it but these are the things that need to be run properly but then does that put off maybe people like yourself getting involved because you also don't want to yes of Of course, credibility.

43:35Yeah, of course.

43:35John Obi Mikel: I've said it. If before I get involved, before, you know, there have been phone calls to come back and get involved. No, but I've said no. Those people need to go. I can't work with them. You know, I need to work with people that I know that have the same objective as me, same goal as me to be able to improve the standard of football in Nigeria because that can be done very, very easily. It can be done. The money, the funds needs to go to the right places. if that happens we can improve the standard of football in Nigeria we have some talented players the Nigerian Premier League is amazing full of talent talent but how do we improve that how do we get those players you know on the biggest stages how do we make sure they have the right facilities to be able to improve that's not there so we have to root out those people that corrupt the football in Africa before we can get anywhere and that's when we need to start talking about winning the World Cup

44:31Chris Stark: well there was one story where you paid for everyone's flights like what what what was that

44:36John Obi Mikel: is that for the olympics yeah exactly for the olympics again talk about the corruption where a budget has been signed by the government and somebody sitting on top of that money didn't release that money and we are all sitting at the hotel about to fly to i think it was uh Rio, yeah. And everyone's thinking, how are we going to get there? There was no money to pay for flight. There was nothing to do. The players were worried. And for most of those players, it's their first time of going to a major tournament. So I thought, why not? I spoke to the coach. I said, how can you find a plane? Looked for a plane and I had to pay for it.

45:15John Obi Mikel: I had to fund it. Oh my God. And we got there. you know we got there and I thought okay now I'm gonna get reimbursed my money up till today I still haven't you haven't

45:28Chris Stark: really that's unreal but then your nation you go there while you finish third in the Olympics exactly so you get a medal and it's still not been nope but is that that's crazy is that not getting reimbursed as a is that like a just a disrespect then because you you took it upon yourself to do it so they just view it as like well no it was not

45:48John Obi Mikel: yeah exactly it's going to be Mikhail So how does that make you feel? They expected you to have done that. No, no, they didn't expect me, but that's the thinking, that's the mentality. Ah, it's Genevieve McKellar. He can afford it. It's not that. It's not that. It's the principle. You know what I mean? It's the respect. And that's what I told them. I was like, listen, guys, yes, I've done it, but it's the principle. You know what I mean? You need to reimburse me, Mike. But they still didn't do it. And for me, the joy that I take out of that is that we got there and those players, those young players were able to get a medal.

46:18John Obi Mikel: olympic medal i know we finished that but it's still a massive achievement and and and for me to be able to see that for those young players go back home to their family knowing that they have they got a medal from olympic was was was more than the money so for me i just kind of like left it for them you know this has been fascinating today because i i wasn't aware really of how perfect you are placed and how perfect would be if you could come and get involved in that and and sort it out and be a sort of new leading light in that whole setup and i really really hope that more people realize this and maybe get behind this a bit more so that hopefully you feel comfortable enough to be at a stage where you feel you can get more because i get a sense that you would like oh yeah oh yeah definitely i i know that if i get involved i'm not saying in in the next two three if I had five years old win the World Cup but I can start to set that standard you know what I mean and that can be done pretty easily I know that because I've been in there I've seen it I know what we're lacking you know what I mean I've been in that dressing room I've been in those camps where things are not done properly you know just the food just the training kit just those little things they all add up

47:31Chris Stark: they all add up it really feels like you can be that bridge between like the playing staff and the people higher up and it's obvious obviously you talk really well you've been a fantastic player but it's starting to make me feel a little bit more guilty about that tackle to be gone

47:53Chris Stark: oh my god you only chose a national treasure I don't know what have I done Don I just want to ask about the the Champions League final 2012 because obviously playing with you and watching you for me that was one of your best games that you've ever played? There's actually, there's reels on social medias that just show all your clips doing all the simple things. So you make it look so easy, but it's not. Was that one of your best games that you played in your career?

48:20John Obi Mikel: Oh yeah, most definitely. Most definitely one of my best games. And to be able to do it, you know, in the biggest stages for me was again, was something that made it pretty special, obviously for us. You know how we wanted to win the Champions League, you know, the club, we've never won it. And for the players like John Terry, Frank Lampard, it was the last chance for us to sort of win it because they were going to leave the club the next season. And for us, we thought this has to be the time. This has to be the opportunity for us to win it. But again, we're playing against the home side, Bayern Munich.

48:52John Obi Mikel: The team like Tony Cruz, Bastem Schwanseger, Philipp Lahm. You know what I mean? Mario Gomez. This were, you know, Iron Robin, Frank Ribéry. We knew we were up against it. But again, big game, you have to perform. and that's where big players turn up. DJ Drogba turned up. You know what I mean? And we knew with him in the team, we know we couldn't surrender. Even when they scored, I think it was 80 something minutes. They scored, we still knew, we still believed that we could still come back. But no, definitely for me, the best game that I've played for Chelsea, 100 % and to be able to perform that night the way I did and to see Roman Abramovich finally win that trophy, that he really, really wanted to win.

49:38John Obi Mikel: I know, we all know that for him, when he bought the football club, it was about winning the Champions League. It was about winning the Champions League. To be the first team in London to win it was what he wanted to achieve. And to be able to do it that night, to see him finally get his hands on that trophy was absolutely special. Absolutely special.

49:56Chris Stark: Yeah, unbelievable. I think, do you think you were slightly underrated as a player? Obviously, D.A. Dropout will always get the plaudits because he scored the goals and stuff. But I watched the highlights of that match. you talk about before today and the players you were doing it to, right? The elite level players, right? You know, so, and obviously the way you played and we played recently in a Legends match, right? I still think you could still, you could still play, right? Generally, like I think, you know, listen, Steven Gerrard was on the same pitch the other day. But you, you look like you could still play.

50:26Chris Stark: You look fit still. You can still play. You're still doing that. Those little turns where you're just, you're just keeping your body in there. You've got an octopus, his arms and legs. Yeah, you can't get a ball off him, right? So, yeah, I feel like, do you still keep active and fit? Do you still play football?

50:41John Obi Mikel: Yeah, yeah, no, no, no, I don't play football, but I play a lot of paddle. I don't play football that much, but no, I still keep fit. I train every day. I go for a run every day, even if it's for 10, 15, 20 minutes. I do make sure I keep myself fit. No, but every time I do play, I always get that, oh, Mikel, you can still be playing. But listen, it's just how it is. yes did I retire a bit early maybe yes is that something that I regret a little bit yeah but it's done now I enjoy what I do I enjoy spending time with the family with the kids but definitely that game in Munich for me was was the best game I played you've just said it there what what I was doing that there in the midfield sometimes I I was pinching myself thinking hold on a minute you know, top, top players, you know, and I absolutely controlled that game.

51:37John Obi Mikel: I busted. And I thought I was going to be the man of the match, obviously, until Didier Drogba scored that and took it off me. But no, but it was a brilliant, brilliant game. It was one of those games where when you look back at it, sometimes today, I can't, I still can't see the reason or what's made me play so well. You know, because I was in the middle of everything. Everything was going through me. I was getting the ball from defenders. The tackles were there. I was just feeling it. And to win that game and playing the way I did was just incredible. Absolutely incredible.

52:17Chris Stark: Yeah, special, man. Biggest game on earth, some say. And, you know, to boss it like that against Bayern Munich, that's absolutely unbelievable. But do you ever think about how your life has kind of panned out, like, obviously, those decisions, those small decisions right at the start of your career at 16, 17 years old. Do you ever think what a life at Man United would have been like? I listen, you won everything at Chelsea, but I just think, you know, you and Scolese, pulling strong, you know, that'd be a decent midfield as well.

52:46John Obi Mikel: Would have been, would have been, obviously, yeah. You think about it, yeah. Post-Golese is somebody that I respect. For me, I've always said it, you know, you talk about those three midfielders, obviously, Stevie G, Lampard, and Post-Golese, I've always said Skozi for me. Always, really? Number one.

53:01Chris Stark: Okay.

53:01John Obi Mikel: I don't know who's two. Don't get me involved in who's going to be number two. But Skozi for me, it's just both of them. I think he's world-class post goals. The way he plays. And being a young player as well, when I trained with him, he was the guy I was watching. I was watching post goals. The way he trained, his quality on the ball, the way he was just pinging the ball around, shooting, technique, passing, everything. But he's the worst tackler. Yeah. It was like me. He can tackle for anything. But no, of course you did. You have that thing going through your head. Oh, what if I played, you know, with the likes of Roy Keane, Postcos?

53:41John Obi Mikel: Would I have won maybe one more trophy or two more Champions League? Yeah, but you know, it's just something you think about. But I'm not greedy. I think for me, one is enough. You've got enough. Fair enough, fair enough. Just on the hypotheticals as well, I kind of felt like it was always, maybe you can answer this, it was potentially a lazy rumour, but there was always a transfer rumor that it was Arsenal. You'd always get associated with Arsenal. I mean, it was every transfer window at one point. Was there ever any slight truth to those articles? Oh, no chance. No chance. I was, even if it was true, there was no chance I would leave Chelsea to Arsenal.

54:14John Obi Mikel: No chance. Yeah. No chance. No, no, no. I will be, I'll be killed. No chance. You like London, right? Yeah. But you can't move from Chelsea to, no, it's impossible. It's impossible. So for me, there was no rumors to that. There was rumors, but there was no, there was nothing in it. One of my best mates asked me to ask you that. Oh, really? Yeah, big Arsenal fan. Was there ever anything in it? No, no, there was nothing. Maybe it came to the club, but they didn't offer it. They didn't show it to me. Maybe. But yes, I did see it in the media back then, but there was nothing that came to me or to my agent back then.

54:54John Obi Mikel: So maybe they did contact the club, but the club never spoke to me about it. I think you'd be crazy as well for the club to sell me to Arsenal by then.

55:03Chris Stark: Just before you go, who's the best player you've played with? I get this a lot.

55:07John Obi Mikel: Oh, we've obviously, I do say, I've said it and I'll continue to say it, Eden Hazard. He's the best player that I played with. A guy who can do anything whenever he wants it. If he's on it and he fancies it, he can do anything he wants with the ball. and it's not just in training, in games, I'm talking about games, not just training. In games, he can turn up and say, okay, you know what? I am going to bust this game. I'm going to do whatever I want and I'm going to win this game. That's how good Aiden Hazard was. It's just unfortunate that it was a guy that didn't want to, he didn't want to maximize his talent, obviously.

55:43John Obi Mikel: We've talked about it. I don't want to keep saying how lazy he is, not training, but he is that lazy. He doesn't like training.

55:53Chris Stark: I remember seeing him on the bench, I remember, at Stoke at Chelsea. I don't think he might have had trainers on or flip-flops. And he walked down. I think he got sent to warm up. I've never seen anyone move less in my life. Never. I don't think he even stretched. He walked out and just stood there, kind of like with his hands back in here. And then he just walked back again.

56:20John Obi Mikel: I said, that was an unbelievable warm-up. He doesn't like training. He doesn't like anything to do with football. He was just talented. He used to tell us, remember when he used to tell us, when he first joined the club, he said, guys, don't get yourself confused. I'm only here for a couple of years. I want to go to Real Madrid. Really? So that was always his one? That was always his dream. He wanted to play for Madrid. He said, I'm going to be with you guys for a couple of seasons and then I'm gone. I'm going to my dream team, Real Madrid.

56:50Chris Stark: No. And he did it.

56:52John Obi Mikel: But just unfortunate, that it didn't work out for him at Madrid.

56:54Chris Stark: Yeah, yeah. Okay, listen, John, absolute pleasure having you. I really was, honestly. Thank you so much. Top man, mate. Brilliant. Great to see you. Really appreciate it.

57:03John Obi Mikel: Thank you, guys. Cheers. Well done. Well done. Super, mate.