Martin Tyler: “This One Line Has Haunted Me for 30 Years” | Breaking down ICONIC moments and Regrets

0:00This is the Peter Crouch podcast and it's not live.

0:10Chris Stark: Hello and welcome to that Peter Crouch podcast. We've got the Notorious S.I.D. and Chris Stark with us. And we call ourselves Football Heritage, right, as a podcast. I feel like we have got a genuine legend of football on the podcast today, Mr. Martin Tyler. That means I'm very old. so i i accept that because i am thank you no it's been a long time coming right because we live in the you know very close by we've actually come in on the same train together but i want to point out right at the start that there are two sides to the tracks peter lives in one side of it which is very very very posh i'm down market but we are close to each other in fact we could have done this podcast in five minutes this is the problem if you've spent an hour together you've kind of said everything it's like a scenario i had once where i'd spent so i was going on a date and i would have been about 15 16 years old and i was going on a date with this girl i'd never met it was a double date been sort of arranged by her friend but i'd got her number before and i'd text her a lot and kind of represented my myself well on text and then by the time i got to the date i literally had nothing to say to her and it was a it was a real problem but hopefully that's not happened today with Peter did steer the conversation away from things that we might talk about now but we have plenty to catch up we've known each other a long time yeah we have and we catch up like there's a local cafe by us and we do have to give that a shout out we'll have a coffee in there and like every time I see Martin there's a like just a something incredible you know like if someone has been in football for that long I just think there's a little kind of nugget of something just so interesting.

1:50Chris Stark: So every time we're on the train just then, I was like, whoa, I'll just save it, save it. Because, you know, everything you say is interesting from how long you've been in the game. Well, it's for both of you. We met in youth football, really. You playing for Tottenham's youth team at Highbury, scoring a goal. How you remember that, you know. I mean, that was, yeah, I was, what, 16, I think, or 17. and it was the first game that I was ever live on television and it was the Premier League youth final. Yeah, so the city was in the actual Youth Cup final with us and we met there and you always looked like you'd get a goal from midfield.

2:30Tom Fordyce: I couldn't believe when... So we trained. This was the build-up to the FA Youth Cup final, right? So we must have been 16, 17, same age and we was playing Coventry, wasn't it, at Highbury? Chris Kirkland in goal. That's it, yeah.

2:44Chris Stark: how many games you do I don't know how you this is a youth team game

2:48Tom Fordyce: this is what we couldn't believe so first of all we was absolutely buzzing to be in the FA Youth Cup final right as Arsenal and then more more importantly than that it was incredible that obviously Martin Tyler the voice of football then was commentating the obviously our game live on Sky but you come down to the training ground to obviously do some research to learn what you look like and to be fair you look the same now so I'll take that The moisturiser's done a good job, hasn't it? But just go back there to go, you know, he was doing obviously all the top tier football then, but to come down and just sort of do some research and just recognise a few of the lads and just watch us train.

3:26Tom Fordyce: And you spoke to Liam Brady and just to get a feel. I saw the first leg of your game, Peter, so I didn't need to come to the training ground, but that wasn't televised and Spurs lost 2-0 at home. So we thought the second leg would be a bit of a waste of time. It wasn't. Spurs had a real go. Can I tell the story about the phone call I got the next day? Yes. I rang at my house the next day and it was Ron Atkinson saying, who is that gangly guy up front? I like the look of him. What do you know about him? No way. Yeah, and that was the very next day. Funnily enough, he rang.

3:54Chris Stark: I didn't know that until the train ride this morning. Really? No, I didn't know. Yeah, so he rang. He did it one other time as well. It's quite interesting because he rang me about Terry Gibson. Now, Peter's 6 '10", Terry Gibson's 5 '3", and so he obviously was not stereotyped and it's always that he wanted to buy. And he did take Terry Gibson, didn't he? There was a Manchester United then, they went there. But I don't know, probably you were very young then, whether that was probably an issue for a manager, who was a first-team manager. But you made an impression, that's for sure. Do you remember the conversation then?

4:26Because I guess, so Ron Atkinson's called you and asked what were your thoughts? I said he played very well, scored a goal. I've got nothing to suggest that there's any character defect because you do hear sometimes about, well he won't make it because you know he might have been out the night before I had nothing like that at all and I'm sure that's still true today and it's yeah it was that kind of thing but I didn't know that much but I did I didn't discourage it that's for sure so did that happen quite a lot to run particularly was very friendly we had a commentators team and which actually from mid 70s to the start of the Premier League.

5:08We played on Sundays and we couldn't, we were all suddenly, all the companies were working on Sundays, but we played charity games for 15 years up and down. Even obviously went to Florida and places like that. And we had a great time and we'd get guests from the world of football. And Ron loved to play. He absolutely loved to play. He wasn't the greatest player, built like a tank. I think that was his nickname on the field, the tank. But he got good technique. And he just liked being around people, you know. And for Sunday, when there was no Sunday football, he was involved on a Sunday. And he became a great contact.

5:42The better his career went on, the more we were sort of special friends, really, because we'd actually kicked a ball or two in them. And he was very, very useful when I was doing Manchester United games, for example. He was very helpful, all the way to when he stopped management. So we had each other's numbers. are you playing in this game on Sunday? Can you play? I'd be ringing him. So he is my number for once rather than me ringing him.

6:11Chris Stark: So obviously you've spanned decades in football and you've worked obviously on the big match, which was sensational. I used to love that, you know, but before the Premier League started. And then obviously in the Premier League years, you know, you've got ITV and then you're right at the start of Sky. How has football changed and have you enjoyed the evolution of it? Or was there something special about it when you first started? I fell in love with football going to my first ever game in 1953. I was taken to Woking. I was eight years old and the boy next door was 10. So he was allowed to take me.

6:49So we went on the bus straight to the ground, watched Woking beat Kingston in four, won two clubs that I ended up coaching at both of those clubs. and I was hooked and I remember the green of the grass it was December so it couldn't have been much grass in those days but working playing red and white half shirts which were a big visual impact as well and from then on I just wanted to play but there was no system at all you know, primary school I played a few games in the primary school team and went to a school that then gave up football one of the old grammar school state systems state school but they decided after I'd been there a couple of years, I don't think I was personally responsible for this, but they decided they weren't going to do football anymore and switch to rugby.

7:36So there was nothing really. I went to university and then got some coaching there and played for Corinthian casuals in the oldest Smean League and was coached by some really good people. George Cohen who won the World Cup, for the rest of his soul, I love you man, to get that kind of input. And from Tottenham actually, before no one in this room will remember but one of Bill Nicholson's assistants was a guy called Pat Welton who gave me my debut actually as coach and he ended up working for Spurs he'd coached England under 18 team I think he was a proper proper coach and so I had some time with him as well so I learned a lot the coaches were wasting their time on me really but it wasn't my time that I didn't waste my own time because it helped me a lot when I did get the chance to go into broadcasting, which I was telling Peter earlier, I didn't want to take because I didn't want to give up playing.

8:28He had to make a choice. I was 27 and I got the chance to do some work in television, which led to commentating.

8:35Chris Stark: I asked Martin on the way here, right, would you give up your commentary career for a few games in league football? And he said, maybe. I was like, you've reached the pinnacle of commentary, but that's how much you want to be a player. That's reactive commentating, proactive is playing. And I played a long time. I played a couple of years ago, and I played in a charity match at Dartford, and I scored, and they filmed it, and I go, wow. And then I looked at it, and I thought, oh, my goodness, who is this old bloke? I had to slide in. It was a cutback and I slid in. Quite a good connection. So doing it, I felt very good.

9:21And then I watched it again and I felt terrible. It took me about three days to get back on my feet again, you know, let alone... So playing is the best. And then commentating is the next best for me. And I have been coaching, which is not as good because you can control yourself as a commentator. You can't control the team that you've been part of picking. Although we've had some good times in non-league football and got Woking into the National League and played Watford in the FA Cup, which was a big three-year-old. That was two worlds colliding. You remember the game. We went to the final that year.

9:53And all the Woking people were supporting. Javi Grassia was wonderful to us. On the day, I was telling Peter, that Troy Deeney was a sub and he'd had a bit of a to-do in the media with our centre-half, a guy called Ben Goering. And so it was only 1-0. And then Troy came on and made it 2-0 within about two minutes. But, you know, it was moving in exalted company, really. But although he berated me in the first half when he was sitting on the bench, I was going, I'll throw, I'll throw. You know, everybody, especially in non-league, does. Behave, Martin, he kept saying. Behave. And maybe I did in the end, because he's still speaking to me.

10:28Chris Stark: So with regards to your commentary career, there must be so many games that you've watched over the years, but does it really stick out, like, favourite games and favourite moments for you personally? Well, the best game, I've been lucky enough to have one in my mind, because we think of thousands of games, but was the 4-3, the first 4-3 between Liverpool and Newcastle. Call him all closing in. Call him all closing in. Yeah, bless Stan. He only was on TalkSport regularly. He used to use that as a part of the build-up, didn't he? Yeah. Even I can remember that. I tend not to remember what was said.

11:00Even driving home, I tend not to remember what was said.

11:02Chris Stark: Can I just interject there? You know, who's the guy who's, I thought it was the programme, but I do not believe it. You know that one? Oh, Victor Meldrum. Victor Mildred. When people just say that, when they see him, they shout it to him. Do you, do you, people must do that to you. When they see you, like recent history is probably Aguero, Collymore closing in, just the little buzzwords. Do you have that? The Aguero, almost, not every day, but certainly weekly. Yeah, yeah. So people always walk past you, Aguero! Little kids, little kids come up to me and say, can I have a selfie with you, you're the Aguero.

11:37And I go, well, you weren't born. I don't know anything about this. I'm my dad, Tommy, and I've seen it. Of course it's there. And one of the things, the reason why I came to watch you guys train and play to do my research is there was nothing else but to do that. Now I'm going to the FIFA Club World Cup and I've got teams that I've not seen play. And I've got all the YouTube stuff available to at least give me a head start. But when I get there, I've got four days before I do a game between a Tunisian team and a Brazilian team, hopefully they'll be training. and actually we had a commentators briefing online with the people that are employing us and I said, have you fixed for us to go to the training?

12:17And they said, well, why would you want to do that? And I said, well, that's the best way. So I'll let you know. But it's much harder now because obviously there are a lot more broadcasters. So I understand the security elements. When I was just the one, then it was easy. In the very first game I did, I didn't really know the opposition. It was Southampton who I'd seen play two days before it was Christmas. They played on Boxing Day. And then my commentary, my very first commentary on the 28th, playing Sheffield Wednesday who I hadn't seen. But this is how luck is, fate, destiny. So I went to the hotel.

12:54That's another way of doing it. So they came down the night before, obviously, before the game. And in the hotel, I saw their manager, who was a guy called Steve Burton, surely. He worked a long time for Arsenal. He wasn't a manager very often, but he was a big person in football. and I said can I just watch some meat there dinner but he said no I can do better than that we're training in the morning and I went this is the morning of the match he said can I come yeah of course you can we're just up the road if you go into Southampton down the avenues I think it's called oh the cow near where the old ground used to be used to turn right to the dell they trained just on the park there yeah the common yeah the common that's it and so he said yeah come down So I'm standing next as close as we are now watching them on the morning.

13:39That's my very first commentary. And, of course, dealing with them, there's only 12 of them are going to be involved as opposed to... Well, they just trained in the centre of town like that. It was a stretch. We've done that.

13:52Chris Stark: I've done that in the Premier League. Yeah. Remember Stoke? Seriously. We trained in Islington, middle of Islington. We were going through a few little set pieces and stuff. There was dogs walking across the pitch.

14:04Tom Fordyce: we had exactly the same thing with Reading we trained in Mosside in Manchester we got off the bus it was like whoa wow literally in a park and it was just like little just not even training really it was just you know loosening the legs just a little loose you had a kit on Cluffy trained them in a roundabout didn't he and Forrest were winning those European trophies the only grasp it was in a roundabout in the middle of a roundabout so he got the balls down imagine seeing that you know just very quickly when you said that you asked to just watch them have dinner yeah was that so to help with the commentary right but you can do that from watching them eat dinner yeah yeah yeah well don't forget you have a photo of them probably I'd get a few programs from the club they would always send program if you rang up and said I'm doing your game in three weeks could you send me the most recent programs things like that but there were no heads of communication or anything you just had to you know as you built up your contacts, but most of the contacts with people you see in matches, so they'd be the coaches or the kit men, you know, and they'd do what they could to help.

15:13But it was really important. I would still do that if Flamengo, I'm doing in my first game, if they said, well, you can't come to our training session, but you can hang around the hotel, I'll hang around the hotel. And when you're watching them, do you have a sort of commentary mind on? Are you going, like, when Steve Sidwell's moving to the buffet, Peter Crouch, well... I've never thought it would be quite like that, really. Maybe I'll try that. You're teaching an old dog a new trick here, really.

15:41Chris Stark: He's having a sip of water. Drink it in! But one thing you do... Parmesan! You do look at them as if they remind you of somebody else. And neither of these two gentlemen remind me of anybody else, so I had to look at the real thing. but that's a clue sometimes and of course when they're actually this wasn't my idea Danny Higginbottom who now lives in Philadelphia where I'm going to, I think he still does he was the first person to tell me as a co-commentator look at the boots of course when I started all the boots were black boots except for Alan Ball who wore white boots and Brian Moore used to say you have to be a very good player to wear white boots these days they all commentated from the time now of course yeah but you do find that some clubs go in trends so it's no good having five players with pink boots you know but anything strapping on the hand anything at all that can help you because identification with television is the key on radio you can probably get away with that a little bit more um not saying that the radio countries aren't as commentators aren't as disciplined as i try to be but um you have got a bit of leeway um but on television if you get it wrong you got it wrong and everybody around the world knows you've got it wrong.

16:58Chris Stark: I'm fascinated by the research that goes into it because every commentator that I've met, you do your own notes, you have a little black book that you've got on players. Do you keep the notes you've got on players? Have you kept them over the years? And do you do all your own research? Well, working for the big broadcasters, I started ITV for 17 years there, a wonderful time in my trade, really. And then Sky had been brilliant to me. for over 30 years and there was a lot of factual backup on that but I like because I started when there was very little and I got used to doing my own stuff and therefore I still do my own stuff and now I'm working more as a gun for hire again a freelance so I don't get that backup from the big companies so I'm used to doing it myself but no there's a lot of a lot of good support the trouble is when you're commentating the show's been on for you know you guys are on talking before the show starts so if it's a good stat you've used it and likely so I'm not saying you shouldn't use it but if if it's somebody doing this or um you know that you um that it's somebody's birthday or something like that that you think you might spot that up quite early uh so I like to do it myself but there is it's unlimited that's the problem you know you really don't know when to stop and I think that's the skill really enough is enough and sometimes when you're doing big games all you're doing is adding on to the notes that you did it the last time but when you're starting like in the in the FIFA Club World Cup with teams that I've never commentated on before yeah then there's a lot to be done and I to be honest with you I could be doing that now and it's a testament of how much I think of you and the quality of your work doing this and how much I've known and loved you down the years, respected what you've done in the game, that I've stopped prepping for a couple of hours.

18:53And it's good for me. So thank you for asking me. Oh, God, that's a pleasure.

18:57Tom Fordyce: We get obviously a lot of stats. The stat packs that come out for your broadcasters, I mean, it's a bit of overkill, but it's no stone unturned. You probably just use, because obviously you need to go on different scenarios of the games, because anyone, I can imagine, I say anyone, it's easier to commentate on a four or thrilling game but when you've got a nil-nil boring game and it's a bit stop-start and you need to sort of go to your stats, like your go-to stats, isn't it, to sort of just keep something alive. You're absolutely right. There's a lot of data now that's not commentary research but we get given it.

19:31Expected goals and percentage of... We were talking about the centre-backs who pass the ball to each other to put their stats up. Passing stats, you see at half-time who's been the most accurate, 95 % accuracy with their passing. the two centre-backs, just giving it to each other with nobody challenging them. But I like those things as well. I do think it's a way to look at a game almost through your eyes, really, to be able to say, yeah, well, that's the way they play. There are good facts about recovering the ball in certain areas, the best presses, which we would never have thought about before.

20:05We just used to call closing it down. We don't press because it's quite a new word, but there's a lot of new terminology for what is basically essentially the same thing. We've talked about this before. Have you or do you, in your mind, take any responsibility for a certain term that is just commonplace in football now? No. No, I sometimes find myself, I never like breaking the deadlock. I refuse to say that. So I've said it now in public.

20:34Chris Stark: Is that something that you've really refrained from saying? Yeah, generally. I just don't know why. I just didn't like it. And there are terms on, actually, I'm very good friends with this guy, a cricket producer, and I love watching my other game, really. And I messaged him. He likes me to just occasionally chip in, listen to the cricket comments. They're all very, very good. When it's a no ball, it's become a, oh, I'll have to bowl that one again. And I go, well, he can't bowl that one again, can he? So it means he's got to bowl another ball again. Yeah, I accept that, but he can't bowl that one.

21:09So I did message him last week to say, just as personal little ripple through me, and he came back and said, no, of course they can't be on the same. So I don't know if they have any influence or not. But yeah, we do think about words and you don't want to be sounding the same all the time. But I don't like listening to what I've done. So there's probably a million things that I've done over the 50 years that you know about that I won't recognise because I'm moving on to the next game all the time.

21:38Chris Stark: without obviously wanting to be fresh and keep it you know current and there's something that we brought in on the podcast that we're trying to get into the mainstream which is um the false two um we talk about the false nine right why why are we i don't like the false nine by the way exactly right right so we're saying why should we why is it always about the nine you know we can have a false two i don't know if you've seen kai say they play recently plays it right back uh but comes into midfield so if you could think about that on your next commentary if you say very much like a folks too we'd be very proud when i was coaching dartford we played worthing and a very good young player is now playing for york because the manager of worthing who is jack inch was dad yes so it is relevant and joe felix his name is carlton cold recommended him to us at woking we didn't tell he was very small but he played against us this is two years ago right back and went into midfield and it did us.

22:33We won the game by complete luck but I spoke to him after he was about doing it. So it is something but the thing is we love the nines, don't we, Pete? The nines. Nothing false about it. Nothing false about it. And if there is anything, one little admission really, when Ricky Lambert made his first Premier League appearance for Southampton, he came up with them I mean, I'd seen him play for clubs in lower divisions, you know. So for him at a late age, later shade, it was after the next Man City game after Aguero, the start of the following season, home to Southampton. And so I went down to watch Southampton train, and I saw Ricky and I said, oh, I'd love to commentate on your first Premier League goal.

23:22It's wonderful. So I love having been a wannabe non-league player, was never going to do what Ricky did, but I love that kind of story coming true, you know. And he went, I'm sub. I went, oh, okay. Anyway, he comes on in the game. They lost the game, but he scored. Three, two. Now, bias is something commentators get accused of all the time. But if you listen to that commentary, which I presume is out there somewhere, I was really living it for Ricky for that moment, you know? And that's what I talk about forwards. I do, in watching the modern game, I do fear. Peter and I were talking about, I played up front even a long time ago where the ball was played along and you don't get the ball in quickly, which you want.

24:03You know, I made my run. You put the ball in. If I'm not there, it's my fault. But if you pass it 15 times and I'm not there when it finally comes in, it's your fault. Is that fair? Yeah, of course. So that kind of loving the centre forwards, I suppose, is the nearest thing.

24:20Tom Fordyce: How hard is that to stay neutral, not just the centre forwards? I'm talking about actual players now. You haven't got to give names, but obviously everyone likes a certain player and don't like other players or dislike other players. So how hard was it for you? Because you can ramp up someone's name and make them sound brilliant. You can inflate someone's value. That's the power of your voice. So how hard was that for a likability? I think it's changed a bit. I think every goal now is given full maximum. And maybe that's something that perhaps has gone against me recently that I try to evaluate.

25:03To be the fifth goal of five, it's got to be something pretty special. If it's just an ordinary goal, it's 5-0. Do you mean people can sometimes... Do you feel that there is a trend of having to be too excited about every goal without... I just think the entertainment part of it, that excitement is part of watching football, you know? And I respect that totally. And things move on. I try to just react, you know? And if it hits the sweet spot, it's fine. And if it's a great moment, it's easier. Because you know that. Everybody knows that. But if it's in between or if the goalkeeper's at fault, then when do you say it was the goalkeeper's mistake?

25:49Harry Kane scored in the last England game. It was really a goalkeeper's mistake. But Kane scores again for England. I had a problem with Gary Lineker. He got a hat-trick in the World Cup in Mexico. 86. Yeah. And the third goal, I think it's the third, one of the three, I think maybe the third goal, the goalkeeper dropped it at his feet. And so I'm relatively inexperienced then I've gone more on, oh, a terrible mistake, and, oh, by the way, it's his hat-trick, where I probably should have gone, wow, it's a hat-trick in a World Cup for England. Yeah, okay. And so you reflect on those things. But it's basically, how do you feel?

26:32I try not to, if you overthink it, it drives you mad. Yes, a lot.

26:36Chris Stark: When I think about the moments that have probably hit the hardest, obviously the Aguero moment, you know, that drink it in. I mean, you can't have scripted that, right? you just shout Aguero's name and then it's drinking and also Collymore closing in you would never know he was closing in so they're reactive you don't script it but you do what if it and the what if you score on your birthday and then you have that what if you score and it's your 50th goal you've got to have those what if moments and I think that's perhaps what a lot of commentators will do and I've certainly done it is make sure that you cover your bases but I mean the Aguero situation there was never a what if like that was how that unfolded but I do remember thinking that that it could happen even at one two that it could happen and and then at two two obviously I said something about City need two in added time or something like that and poor gecko it should have been him if it had been him i could have his name would be the one shouting around but no one remembers his equalizer um straight after i watched that moment on the way here of mine right and uh it just that the bedlam that is going on right i mean i remember joe hart running uh there was the whole camera was shaking there was people's shirts were off that was just absolute carnage how do you remain kind of i know you're obviously excited but how do you remain professional in that situation with you know because it's so intense um well there's several things about that tony mills was the match director who should get far more credit than me because those pictures you're right the joe hart shot is sensational he's cutting he's remaining calm and nobody knows him and they should and he's still directing football matches now i was at a function about a year ago and he was a member at this place where we were doing a charity function he was sitting in the back it was a dinner function and i recognized him i was sort of paul merson was the main turn and i was just introducing him i said but before we go in i'm sure you want to know a little bit about aguero from me i said but there's somebody in the room who who should get more credit than me for it so i got him he was looking at me furious because he knew what was coming.

28:59But he did enjoy it, I think, that he got there. And I said, he's the man who's made this possible because it is television, it's not radio. And my words could be on radio, but his pictures are what make it. Maybe the combination of the two things, but certainly the pictures more than the words. And that kind of, that's what you're trained for, really. I mean, you've had big moments in football matches where the crowd's going mad, and you stay calm and be professional. but you knew history was being made. It was a funny history really because Manchester City was supposed to win. Yeah. It wasn't like a big giant killing act, was it?

29:35But it was the great comeback and the luck of holding a microphone on that particular day really.

29:42Chris Stark: And I interrupted you when you were just about to talk about one of the best games that you've ever seen which was the 4-3. Yeah. Yeah, but that was, both teams were going for the title and neither of them won it. it's almost as if they punched themselves out in this eliminator Manchester United came through on the rails and won it but it was Robbie Fowler scored after two minutes and then once Newcastle had equalised then Liverpool were only in front again when Collingmore closed in so it had Schienerle scored, Asprey scored and Les Ferdinand scored and Robbie got two and Stan got two so they were great players involved in it and they just went for it even during the game I've heard the whole game back when we had COVID one of the very few bonuses from it was some of these old games were given the modern day treatment really, the Monday night football around that game

30:42Andy Gray and I were sort of evaluating it as it went this is special, this is really special so I watched it with a couple of members of my family who heard me bang on about it but never watched the game and and i go what do you think of the end i said it's better than you thought than you said it was even better than that you know so um yeah that that's that stands out and i stick by that because i've seen it again recently yeah is there any moments that you

31:06Chris Stark: regret i remember obviously brian brian moore with the quickly kevin willie willie score and i listen i listen to that podcast world like obviously i'm i love i love nostalgic yeah uh football i was i was on that and he said he regretted it yeah i mean of all i mean brian was wonderful help to me. I was amazing commentator, right? Yeah, and great voice, great appreciation. Really, really like a, to say a fan with a journalistic nose for the story, he knew what was going on, you know, journalistically, but he still was able to project a massive amount of the atmosphere into the broadcast. But he deeply regretted that.

31:46Just because he put him on the spot,

31:48Chris Stark: Kevin Keegan, and then he says. Kevin and he were really close friends, you know. Brian went out and made a documentary when Kevin was playing in Germany. He probably got Kevin into the television deal anyway. It's such a shame. I was on that podcast and that's the first thing I said, look, before we go any further, I need to tell you on behalf of Brian Moore and the commentators' union, Brian did deeply regret that. For me, there's too many, Peter.

32:20you have to learn to put it to one side and I think what I loved about playing as a forward playing football as a forward is you could be the worst player on the pitch and win the game and then nobody ever talked about the bits you messed up and as a commentator the goals don't cover that because the game's alive any slip of the tongue misidentification

32:45Chris Stark: um has it become harder the craft because of social media and everyone's got opinion now on on commentators on pundits on on co-commentators kind of you know what like you say one mispronunciation and people are on you pronunciations that's a matter of taste anyway so that's um you know when i go to america we're gonna have to have some meeting about this because the foreign names and And you just, you ask the player, really. But then the player, my very quick story about that is Paolo Wanchop, who you remember, came up to Barry Davis and myself, I was dating it a little bit, and said, I want to be called Wanchoppe.

33:27My mum says it's Wanchoppe. So we did it, me for Sky and Barry for Match of the Day. And then about a month later, by coincidence, Barry and I were in the same game again. I was playing for Derby then, I think. and he came up and he said, no, no, no, can you go back to one shop, please? And I go, what was it? It does sound great, though, doesn't it?

33:46Tom Fordyce: One shopping. This is what we were saying you should have done as well. He said about three shoppings, didn't he?

33:54You should have given Martin the crochet.

33:56Chris Stark: Yeah, crochet. The crochet, yeah. Well, I said, you know, like all the Brazilian lads just throw whatever they want on the back of his shirt, right? Yeah, that was the beginning of the start. Remember Hasselblad had Jimmy on his shirt to start with and they banned it? Yeah. Because it wasn't Jimmy on his passport. His name is Gerald, I think. J-E-R-R-E-L, something like that. So they probably used that. So if you had Janino on your passport, you could be called Janino, you know? But I think it's more flexible now. Well, it's anything now, isn't it? It'd be Crouchy. You'd have Crouchy on it. No, I'd say Crouchordino.

34:30Tom Fordyce: Yes. A question I wanted to ask was, you are certainly one of the most respected commentators in world football. In your career, was there moments where managers had to pull you? So for instance, near enough everyone from Sir Alex Ferguson has had a ticking off. Now, has that ever happened to you from either him or a manager? Oh, really? Yeah, and I owned up, and I'll happily tell you, It was Dennis Irwin had left Manchester United to go to Wolves. And in a Wolves game, he was obviously watching at home. I said, Dennis Irwin asked for a free kick, went down to the referee. And I said, I think he'd have got that if he was still playing for Manchester United.

35:22And he was furious about that. And he was entitled to be. I called it. I said, I'm really sorry. That's careless commentary. and you know but then he said and there was another game and it turned out that i wasn't commentating on the other game so i sort of was able to retire a bit of dignity from the conversation but yeah i mean kenny darglish is always very hot on and what the successful managers they do detailing clues what commentators say about their players you know um but you can't overthink that again you you've got to um i'll give you an example about somebody who became a famous manager, but it was a player, Gareth Southgate, where he played for Villa against Chelsea at Villa Park, and Chelsea won 3-0, I think, and he was responsible for two of the goals.

36:12And as we all know, Gareth's one of the great gentlemen of the road, isn't he, and a terrific person. And he was then playing for England a few weeks later, and I had to point the finger at him, and I said, sorry about the other day, you know. And he went, you're only doing your job. I was terrible. And so, but you don't always get that kind of admission. But you are aware of it. But I think now there's so much on, before, on a Super Sunday game, for example, you knew that that was a focus for everybody. Now there are games all the time. And so it's impossible for everybody to keep up with everything.

36:50No, there is a lot. I mean, there is a lot of football. There's going to be more. There's going to be more Stryer going up there, advertising up to 215 games. minimum they're saying so there may be more than that on that point with the managers aside from sort of the odd telling off here and there would managers ever phone you and kind of feed you information as well because they knew you were speaking to millions of people and i've given you that intel yeah and that was quite easy at the start when i worked for yorkshire television it was 1976 1981 we had 16 clubs in our area and it was like living in a different country, Yorkshire.

37:27And if I remember Gary Megson, whose dad played for Sheffield Wednesday, Gary Megson started at Plymouth, strangely enough, but he was a Yorkshireman and son of a Yorkshire player. So we did Rotherham against Plymouth and we featured Gary Megson at every conceivable opportunity. So I had all the numbers of the Yorkshire managers and one of them, a lovely guy, Mick Buxton, was manager of Huddersfield. He said, you won't get me in the office, but you might get me down the working man's club. and this is their number. And I phoned him. And I said, it's Mick there. Yeah, yeah. And that was of the time, you know.

38:06And so any trust, of course, was very important. One or two managers that I won't name said, I'll give you my team if you give me theirs. And I go, no, no, that doesn't work like that. I'd rather not have your team. Thank you very much. But very, very rarely in 50 years, probably on one hand.

38:26Chris Stark: I know from speaking to you as well, there are managers, like you say, that might give you the team, but you'd always be really respectful and not say anything until you get handed the commentary and then you're able to talk through it. I told a story on our podcast at Joy of Football a couple of months ago about Alec Ferguson again, and he told me that they were playing at Sunderland, there's an FA Cup replay, and that he was going to play with a sweeper. and this was a very I'm going, I know this how many people know this? I'm going to the game, what wonderful information I get to the ground and the opposing manager is Peter Reid and Andy Gray, who's my co-commentator Peter Reid's best mate and they're sitting in the office talking about Manny and I are going to play with a sweeper and do you have to not say anything?

39:14I said nothing No, I said nothing Not even a wink? No, no, no, I just said Beyond that with a little brunt. I can't say anything about it. I can't say anything about it. But I genuinely believe that I'm not, my innocence, which I protest again here, has not been accepted at Old Trafford. Because what we did do, we said, well, if Man United play like this conventionally, Sunderland are going to play like this, because Peter could give us all what Sunderland were going to do. But if they were playing, for example, they did this, then Sunderland would play like that, which is actually what happened.

39:54The story where the game went, they scored Phil Gray, I think he scored for Sunderland, and then he took Parker off at halftime, and United came back and won 2-1. So, fine, they're through the next round of the FA Cup. So I'm at home the next afternoon, I've got home, phone goes, and my wife goes, there's a Mr. Ferguson on the phone, I think he was still Mr. then. I said, well done, you've won the game and everything like that. they knew and they knew because a player who had left Manchester United was playing in the northeast of England and he'd heard from his mates back at Man United that the day before they'd done a practice match in which the reserves had played the team that was going to play at the training ground and he got wind of this and he told Sunderland now that's the truth and I'm not going to name the player but it's pretty easy to work out as I found out when I did it in my podcast our podcast and um and i but i still think that if alex sat here now he'd go you know um but that's the truth the truth is i didn't betray it but what do you do i mean i walked into a room full of knowledge i got the knowledge and i had to pretend i was ignorant you know do you have good relationships

41:06Chris Stark: with managers is there like swags folks for is it that people they feel like they could pick the phone to it's harder now because they're the foreigners but like thomas frank's wonderful i I mean, he is a manager for all ages, you know. I really like him, yeah. I've been down to the training ground as well. And he's just good company and a lovely fella and very good manager. He let me in before. I did Arsenal's first Arsenal. They played Arsenal, Brentford, Arsenal first game, wasn't it? In the Premier League when they came up. And he let me in. It was COVID. I had had all sorts of COVID tests.

41:36He let me watch the training the day before. It was a Friday night game. I went on a Thursday. had to have a medical virtually outside the training room but apart from that they practiced the long throws right in front of me close as you are now and they scored from the long throw I sounded like a real smart a real smart gentleman a really smart shirt when they scored from it and you know that kindness the day before a game

42:05Tom Fordyce: that's sacred no one else is getting it's like no and I respect that it has helped that I've done some coaching as well because I meet them on the circuit when I'm maybe scouting for a non-league team and I go to, say, an under-21 game at a club, a Premier League club, and the manager, first-team manager, is there. Although I was coaching at Kingston a few years ago, and Martin Yoll was manager of maybe Fulham by then. I think it might have been Fulham. He came to the game. And Hans Sagers was his assistant. It was the Nobles Fulham. So I go up and I know Hans better than Martin. and Hans and um yeah what are you here for I said I'm the assistant manager he went no and I went and Hans went yeah he is no and they're about four no's and I don't think I was in the dugout he was sitting in the stand watching the first watching the kids play against that's all the preseason they always sent a good team we actually beat Fulham once Billy McKinley um next time we played another game a different club he sent eight internationals for a pre-season game we lost eight nil they didn't didn't like to lose to a non-league team as a football fan yourself and someone who's worked across obviously decades and decades what was your favorite period so in terms of it could be a decade or it could be a spell where um in the 70s or 80s or it could be the 90s where man united dominated or when arsenal had their turn or chelsea or the city area when when did you enjoy obviously i know you can say you enjoy it like the whole lot but if you had to pinpoint a certain category where would you go mid-90s working won the trophy three times in four years at weberley can i have that yeah why not i didn't commentate on any of them yeah i i was at two of them but the 95 one caused chaos because it was the day that Blackburn won the league at Liverpool by losing, actually losing.

44:05And that was Sky's big day, the first doubleheader ever. But before the game came on, there was the trophy final. And Woking playing the trophy final, it went to extra time. And you know all the crafts that goes into the preview stuff, the wonderful pieces put together with music, work, and interviewing players, all done in the week, leading up to it. all junked because Woking they were saying that when's this game gonna finish on a hearing of the and I'm watching it and I'm supposed to be preparing for this massive game and working one in the 120th minute and I went mad we were on the gantry then I mean there was like the teams have been announced and everything I leapt on Andy Gray he said I'm never gonna work with you again he behaved like this jokingly hopefully and uh and then sailed through the game was fantastic because everyone was a winner.

44:56Liverpool won the game. Jamie. Jamie's won a great goal. It was a good goal. Liverpool won the game. Blackburn won the league. Kenny Dalgleish was doing spoof interviews with the Sky reporters he'd been so difficult with before he was interviewing them. And Nick Collins, Nick was going, no. Yep. Okay. No. Like Kenny would have done. Kenny was like, they're trying to get... Brilliant. It was a wonderful day. Truly won. And I wasn't a winner with Liverpool or Blackburn. but I was reworking. And so, yeah, probably that's maybe the moment because that relates to the Premier League. That was a special thing.

45:32But for football, it's ever-evolving, ever-changing. And the one thing I've learned and how you kind enough have been inviting me today is you've got to go with the flow. You've got to move with the change, move with the times. And I would love to see balls into the box for big centre-forwards to score goals and not the ball being played from the back. But I've got to accept that the best coaches in the world and they're much more than me, believe it's the way to go. And if they've got the players to do it, the pitch to do it on, do it. Go and win trophies doing it.

46:01Chris Stark: It was nice just kind of off-air for me and Martin to bitch on the way here about how no one crosses the ball anymore. But I watched the best game I've seen recently was Oldham 3, Southend 2 in the playoff to get back into the EFL for both of them and Oldham won it in extra time. there was not one ball from the goalkeeper out to the fullbacks or the centre-back. All kicked long, everyone challenging for it, getting the second ball. Second ball, you don't get that anymore. No second balls because there's no fighting football. But listen, whether it'll change when Pep eventually does move on and his disciples decide there's somebody else to follow, I don't know.

46:43But it'll come back in. And two forwards as well.

46:47Tom Fordyce: Bring back Morty Bassett. Two forwards. Two forwards. I mean, I still, foolishly, there's a lad who's in his 30s now. He's playing for Bromley in the league called Nicky Cabamba, who's played in Scotland and he's been around the scene for a long time. I had him at Hampton and Richmond as a coach about eight or nine years ago. And I would go, when the fullback's got the ball, you make your run in the channel. And I go, then why aren't you doing it? And he goes, well, I'm having to do it both sides. And I thought, yeah, when I was thinking about it, somebody else would do it the other side. or you do crossover runs so that you would do that and that you never see that anymore so um you know but i hope it will come back most things do go around there's not too much that hasn't been done before but we've never had such great pitches before and we've never had so much data before yeah so these are factors that that may take the game away from fighting football but it's there if you want to find it that's for sure because only the very best can play this the possession-based game.

47:48Chris Stark: Yeah, so watching football in the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, you know, up to today, is the 90s for you your favourite time of watching football? No, no, no. There was just one that happened. Listen, I would watch, if there was a match across the road now, I'd go and watch it. You can't differentiate. When I'm very lucky to still have people asking me to work and they'll retire me because I love every game that I do and the thrill is getting another game. Just like that first game 50 years ago, when I got asked to do it, I was half nervous but half going, wow, I've got a chance to watch football from a pretty good seat in the house and wrap it on a bit about it.

48:33You live and breathe it. That's what's so clear. It's great. What I'm interested to know is outside of football, are there any other interests?

48:41Chris Stark: I always thought this about Rafa Benitez. I just can't imagine him going to the swings with his kids. I feel like he's going to still get them in formation. I totally agree. Or watching The Chase or something. Don't get my two kids in here to talk about what I didn't do with them. I can't imagine it. No, I love cricket. I live with Bob Willis and Geoff Howarth, who both captained their countries growing up. Student flats, if you like, young people flats in South London, Streatham. and so I go and watch I've got some down time I go to watch Red Bull cricket really, it's a bit traditional and so I've got a few friends the manager when I played was Mickey Stewart who was England's cricket coach but was a professional footballer Alex Stewart, his son, played 100 times for England so Alex used to come and watch us train when he was 4 or 5 years old so I've known him pretty much all his life so I can go to the Oval and talk to him, which is lovely.

49:43But we talk about it before. He's a big Chelsea fan, massive Chelsea fan. So it all comes back to football. Is there anything non-football that you're into at all? No. Well, yes, of course there is, but it's not very interesting. I like watching sort of the cops thing, British television. I like British television. Bit of traffic cops, that kind of thing? No. Tell me about the Cowboy films on the way here,

50:09Chris Stark: and I recommended Yellowstone to him. But that's changed. It's a modern day cowboy film. When I was a kid, we had guns with caps, you know, and holsters. So did you wear your holster so like the goodies or like the baddies where you pulled it out with your opposite hand, you know? And playing, just playing out in the fields as we were allowed to as young people, come home for your tea at six o 'clock, you know, that's what it was. So we would play as well as football, which of course is probably not now acceptable on the big screen. and John Wayne was one that I used to love his films. I've still got the box sets.

50:45I don't know what format they're on, but they're certainly...

50:49Chris Stark: So, Martin, your podcast is called The Joy of Football, right? And it resonates how much you enjoy the game still now after all these years. Of all the players that you've watched, who's been the biggest joy to commentate on? Peter Crouch. Other than me. Other than me, Martin.

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52:13I don't know. Sometimes in terms of being biased, if you know somebody, like Ricky Lambert, that story does involve a certain amount of bias. I do like the players who have become what I wanted to be. I know how hard it was to play. I mean, playing in the Eastman, there was no National League in those days, so the Eastman League was the top non-league, and I was a very ordinary player in that, playing in some very good company. So the ones that can do what I try to do, I really do. I mean, Erling Haaland's amazing, you know. How, if I had a thousandth of his talent, I'd have been a much better player.

52:56so it I think that's the that's where I get my joy if somebody scores if somebody scores a header from the penalty spot I'm pretty excited about that yeah so I think but just one thing that you touched on about is energy really there were the word my partner is she's a lovely lady she's I'm punching way above my mind.

53:22Chris Stark: Nothing wrong with that. Oh, yeah. I knew we had something other in common apart from the number nine shows. You're in good company here, mate.

53:32The last words, and the secret of our relationship, unlike yours, I don't want to know the secrets of yours, but I'm sure the listeners might. Is that we don't live together. Oh. But we always talk to them. I can see that working really well. I pass it You said that

53:51Chris Stark: You're right I've got an idea I hope you're getting the train home as well Dissect that

54:02But the one word she says to me and it is about it is about football commentary just to make it clear the one word she says to me before I go off to work is energy and I think the passion for the game hopefully gives you the energy and come a time I mean we all lived our lives or in your living your lives pretending we're 30 or 25 or whatever and at some point you can go a long way like that I've seen a lot of really famous names ex-footballers live like young people until the point where actually the time kicks in and you have to say enough's enough but um i'm hoping that i've got one or two years before that happens to me and i can still go for a jog no but the energy is is the most important thing and and being around you guys it energizes me as well because you have you have to otherwise you sit at home and give it

55:02Tom Fordyce: all away you know yeah you must get this away from football where undoubtedly you'll recognize more for your voice so whenever you are you in like a restaurant or somewhere and you they take your and you go, I'll have the soup and the chicken. And they go, you. Yeah, that's a good point. Because obviously you're not recognised probably more. Your voice is more recognisable. I get recognised facially at football because I've done a lot. I used to do the... The people that won't recognise football or that you might be out, but they'll know your voice and they could be... It could be a woman, like a nana or a woman, or it could just be anyone that's just in the background.

55:37I have to say they are mostly men, which is, you know, I suppose that's normal, isn't it, really? But given the footprint of football now, it shouldn't be so. And then often it's taking a photo of their children who, despite what I said earlier, probably don't have a clue as to why. I was trying to get them to come and join us as well, because it's really for you. It's the privilege of what I've had, you know, Working for, as I say, ITV gave me a great grounding. Sky would have been brilliant, absolutely brilliant. So, you know, that's luck, really. I mean, I look back and I think that happened.

56:19I nearly turned down going into television as an editorial assistant because I wanted to play. And Jimmy Hill, probably that's before everybody's time, but Jimmy Hill was presenter of Match Today. He was also a player, Players Union, managed Coventry up to the first division, left and became a television presenter. and I did some work for him before I was in television. Didn't you write his column? I did. Yeah, I did. That's the work I was doing, and I got offered this chance to go on the television in July, and I was doing pre-season, and I said, I don't know, and I told him, and he went, you're mad.

56:56How good are you as a footballer? And I went, not so good, and he went, go home, phone them up, and tell them that you'll take the job, because I turned it down, you never know where it will lead you well it's led to me on to a lovely sofa

57:14honestly I've been thought that they'll say no because I turned it down so I'll be right and they said yes come in next week and then I had to go to the Mickey Stewart who was my manager and we trained at the oval actually we've been pretty he had a lot of in her create sorry kind of cricket and on the steps to the oval I went up to and I said, I'm sorry, I can't miss August. We're playing the first league game two weeks. I think I've got a job. I can't play. All he had to say was, no, no. You know, we were starting in a couple of weeks. And I wouldn't have done it. He said, he just looked at me and went, good luck, son.

57:51And that was it. I shook hands with him and went off to television, not to be a commentator, but to be working on it, cutting the goals together. So when you look back on it, you think, that was meant to be really I mean I wasn't in charge of those decisions I would have made the wrong decision every time but something and I'm sure if you look back at your lives when you get nostalgic and you get older you'll find the same thing it's also a lesson in saying yes to things you know and as you say not knowing where that leads it can be kind of against human nature to do that but I'd know people say oh well you must have wanted to be a commentator I wanted to be a footballer and it took me to the path where I could contribute, hopefully, a little bit to the game that I loved.

58:36Chris Stark: Yeah, well, I think, like, for me, I don't know if you're anything like me, but if I'm home on my own, very often I'll put Premier League ears on. Would you ever do that? Would you ever watch that? No. No, because I'm thinking about the next game. That's true for maybe when all this comes to an end, which it must do by sheer logistics of life. sooner rather than later. But no, I've never been a great one for it. It's done. That's why I like saying it and it's live because it meant a lot to me for it to be live. When I started, I would watch the big match and maybe my game would be on the big match.

59:15So I'd watch that because it was on the big match, you know. And it would be done the day before. But when it's live, there's nothing you can do. I love this attitude. This is like you on the second day of a big weekend. you know we've talked about before where you need to come in with a new energy can't be reflecting on the night before going oh i feel crappy today we have a lot of people on stag dudes writing in

59:37Chris Stark: saying it's this it's it's day two there's a couple flagging we send sid's in and he does a

59:42Tom Fordyce: team talk for them um i'm more than happy to do that if you need any help or we in future we get martin to do it to any yeah but by luck and this is by luck and they're talking about luck and destiny i don't like the flavor of alcohol so i don't drink and never have drunk and it's nothing to do with marginal gains and whatever i don't like it and i don't like the smell of it i don't like the taste of it so whether that's allowed me to be a bit more energetic because you're a little bit raspy you've just come back from a bit of a trip in miami yeah it's the air con it's the old air con excuse my it's terrible Pavarotti did it so you should do it as well just um just quickly on that on the um and this is live was that your twist that you put on there or was that did they say you need to say it's live it was me that was all you yeah because the reasons because i did a lot of recorded football and i was still thrilled i'm still thrilled that it's live yeah it's amazing that what's happened that in the 50 years i remember being at the world Cup in Brazil and it wasn't so much the commentating but I was standing on Copacabana Beach talking to Sky Sports News and my family were watching and I'm just standing like we're talking, sitting now but I how does this happen?

1:01:02It can't happen, it really can't, I've been through all the television where that would have taken like a year to fix it up, all they did was dial in a number and there you are, you'll be hearing, put the earpiece in you'll be hearing so and so from London and you just talk so there's a miracle about it that I'm wide-eyed about it still and I'm probably wide-eyed about football still so I probably have never grown up and it's about time I did but I'd be frightened to do so now.

1:01:29Chris Stark: Never got mine honestly what is the point of that? No there's no point only if you're punching above your waist. with regards to your podcast joy of football uh how's it going are you enjoying it yes um it's a very much a case of two elderly gentlemen but talking about what they love the joy the joy of football the other person i do is neil barnett who's a top journalist but known mostly for being a chelsea daft and working on they used to do the announcements pitch announcements Yeah, I remember him. Like comedians work the room, he works Stamford Bridge. Like nobody else could do it really. But he then went off and worked on a show in the States based in England.

1:02:20Sirius XM is the big soccer station on the radio in the USA. So he was hosted there for 15 years. So he knows what he's talking about. But he gets off on one sometimes and I have to calm him down. He's the voice of passion. I'm the voice of reason. but we've done over 60 episodes we've had some guests and I think part of the deal Pete was me coming here I didn't negotiate this but my producers who are young and thrusty and actually speak above their station to eminent people like you here we are

1:02:53Chris Stark: look at the three thrusties over there we said this was a horny but the truth is in the time we've been doing the podcast I've seen Peter a few times and I've only said, you did say to me once, you must come on the podcast. I said, I'm still available if you want me to come on. But I've never said, and in fact I've never said today, even today, will you come on mine? But that lot, the younger thrusters, they've got to waste their time. We've got Ross in front, Hansy, and Thrusty. But it is called the Joyful Home. It's home and away tires. Is it this one for you guys? Well, if it is, that would be wonderful.

1:03:36Yeah, that would be great. Because Billy, who is the head of the youth team over there, he mentions your name. He's Neil Barnett, I'm Martin Tyler. He mentions Peter Crouch more than us put together. Oh, wait. The whole time. He's a slave to what you've achieved. Three frosty tears, isn't it? It's there, it's fun, and it's done through the heart more than the head, to be honest with you.

1:04:03Chris Stark: Now, listen, if it's anything like the chat we've had today, Mike, genuinely, you know, for me, you are the voice of football, certainly Premier League football. And it's been a pleasure just listening to your commentary over the years. It's been a pleasure being able to meet you as a player as well. I'd like to think we get on very well. And I think this podcast was everything I imagined it would be. So I really appreciate you coming on. That's really kind of you. And it's been my pleasure. Thanks for the invitation. and are we going back on the train together? Yeah, we will, mate. I'll tell you what, Mike, if you don't mind.

1:04:35Other side of the tracks, though, when we get to our destination.

1:04:39Chris Stark: We're going completely opposite directions. Make sure you get an Uber when we get off. Can we do some messages? Yes, that's it.

1:04:52Chris Stark: Hi, here we go. No, no, no, go with it. So this is the problem when we have guests on and we invite them into our world. If you've got any questions at all, we can explain. High City sent Uno Bolo and the human ruler. We can explain later. Regards to your families and your testicles. Any questions so far? No, but I'm getting the drifts of it now. Okay, quick story time. I may have met the ultimate Carl the other day. How do you explain Carl? Keep going. Okay, walked up to the pub with a guitar. Not live music or anything. He was just with some mates, not too outrageous. Clapped so the whole pub could hear every time a joke was told, a little bit knobbish.

1:05:41Chris Stark: Proceeded to play the guitar badly, like Will from the Inbetweeners, which is slightly more annoying. But to top it off, he drank his pint with the straw. I won't say what's in brackets there, just out of respect. Thoughts? Surely VAR needs to get involved here. I'd happily take a yellow for giving him a shove at the bar. but surely this behaviour is provocative and deserves a yellow also. It was a plastic straw too so no regard for the environment. Please reassure me that this is disgusting behaviour. Martin, what are your thoughts on drinking through a straw? I know you're not an alcohol man.

1:06:18Chris Stark: No. If you saw a man drinking a pint through a straw how would you feel? Not normal I don't think. No. I do like those the shakes the protein shakes and things like that you get sometimes and you have to they offer them with a straw so anyone doing that is fine by me but the pints that I see I've usually had to buy and they're so expensive that I turn my back on them when they drink it so I think bringing a guitar to a pub is kind of an odd it's a slightly odd look you don't see that very often don't really know what the rules are around it but one thing on that that I would love to see bought back which I think has kind of got lost a little bit is just pianos in pubs.

1:06:59I think they were, it's something that should just, it almost should be a law, I reckon. One piano, obviously only go play it if you're any good. Can't just bang out the Rugrats theme or chopsticks. But you don't see pianos in pubs so much. No, I've got a piano in my house. Do you play? No, no. Are you talking about football? No, I don't, but my daughter did and then we had the piano for her. She's 35 now. So she's fled the nest quite a while ago. And the piano is up for discussion now, what we're going to do with it. So if there's any charitable cause who needs a piano in the Surrey area and collect it, I'd be happy to donate it to anybody.

1:07:43We'd have to check it out. Yeah, of course. It passed the test and they can get it and come and take it. And if not, maybe we get a little piano in the Chumba One bar. Well, I just think that'd be a lovely thing.

1:07:54Chris Stark: if we could, we'd obviously pay you for it. But I think, you know, Chris plays a little bit. Not as well as Patrick Bamford, I would say. No, true, true. But I just think having Martin Tyler's piano in the Chumble Wombar could be absolutely phenomenal. Yeah. Just, you know, we do have the odd guests that come through. It's nice to offer, isn't it? Yeah, it hasn't been used for about 15 years. So I think tuning it might be a problem, but I'm sure you'll be able to with your resources. You fine-tune the podcast. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Okay, just another one here. Crouch Dog Wombler of Watford and Maple Leaf Wonder.

1:08:23Chris Stark: So, regards to your families, just listening to your pod with Big Harry. And curious, you've got the best of me. Who do you think would win a golf four ball, four managers versus four players? Needless to say, Gareth Bale excluded. Keep up the incredible work, Chris. Give the circumstance you've taken your news so well. And the publicity is the best thing, all the best. Probably have to explain that. Very quickly, won't go into it too much. I had to remove a bollock because I've got, well I had testicular cancer so we talk about it on the podcast yeah Chris very bravely came out and you know raised a lot of awareness for that particular cause my sympathies and my admiration for what you talk about it yes that's what they say about we men isn't it that we don't talk about these problems exactly and that's what we've been trying to voice operations two years ago and yeah it took the window out of my sails in more ways than one really I couldn't even pick up the phone occasionally Crouchy rings me but last time you rang me I said it can't be Peter Crouch because you never ring it must be another number more of a whatsapp but so I and I'm happy I was had a wonderful treatment from the NHS absolutely fantastic and Friday week ago I went for my latest six month checkup on it it's all brilliant I've done 50 odd commentaries this year but when it was going on it was no fun at all and as a commentator you tend to lose more than your voice you lose your total identity really so well done for yeah thank you as you can see all listeners get in touch and we keep the conversation going it's great that everyone piles in so we keep the conversation as we say but anyway back to the managers versus players Yeah, any managers or players you've come across?

1:10:16Chris Stark: Are you a golfer, Martin, yourself? Like I'm a teetotaler to the drinking community, I'm a non-golfer to the golfing community. It's the ball stationary. I have no track with any game where the ball is stationary. If the ball's moving, I'm in. Are you tempted with a bit of paddle? That's the new one. Yeah, I think learning how to pronounce pronunciation is very important. I've heard people on the radio call it padel, which is how it's spelled. and so are you a paddle or a paddle? I thought it was paddle even if it was paddle

1:10:47Tom Fordyce: I just can't bring myself to say that

1:10:50Chris Stark: is it just me or not? I think if you said the word paddle to me you'd have to leave the podcast you're dead to me funny with the lady I mentioned earlier that I live seven miles away from but we're very much together what a long description so everybody understands We're talking about actually moving close together in a court, playing on the same side against her two kids at paddle. Yeah, nicely done. If we speak again in the future, I may be able to add more to that. Our conversation on the way home, obviously, is sorted. I need to know how you've worked that out with the living away from each other.

1:11:32Chris Stark: My wife on this podcast is very affectionately known as San Marino because she kicks off every 10 minutes.

1:11:40that's one of the best ones I've ever heard so that's out in the public you've used it people write in and say how's Sam Rino if I tell people what was it like on the Crouchy podcast I'll say this was the best line ever then I won't be breaching any trust because she doesn't understand the football reference so it just works beautifully

1:11:59Chris Stark: so obviously if you do see her in the village you'd be perfectly welcome to say how are you Sam Rino on this fine day That'll be a test, won't it? I think to have just a lovely country, you know? She loves you. I think my ears have been cuffed enough in the past. Another one. Okay, well, have we got an answer here? Managers versus players very quickly? They all play, that's the thing. When Graeme Souness was the manager, he banned it, didn't he? At Liverpool. Right. And the players went up in arms about it. so I don't think if I as a big coach in non-league football I wouldn't want my players traipsing around a golf course in the course of the week I wouldn't go and play in the summer but you have to play you have to play every day to be any good at it don't you that's the problem but agreed I think Graham Sooners is someone you've mentioned who I've played golf with and he's very good he loves it Fabio Capello never seen anyone play as much golf as Fabio Capello so they would be two managers I would say Guardiola Laquadiolla can play.

1:13:02Have you been to La Manga where the players, they have an ex-player's goal? Terry Mancini was way before your time. Terry, yeah. But he organised it for a long time anyway. And La Manga and the queue around the block for players wanting to play. And some of the role players have been managers as well.

1:13:20Chris Stark: And just make up that four ball, I think Gary O 'Neill was a scratch golfer, I believe. Around scratch. So I think that would be a decent four ball against the players. what? Bale? Bullard? We say we can't have Bale. Not going to have him, right? Okay.

1:13:34Tom Fordyce: So he's his current players. No.

1:13:35Chris Stark: I'm just thinking, if you just get four players, I know he's excluded him, but we'd have Bale. Bullard.

1:13:41Tom Fordyce: But, yeah.

1:13:42Chris Stark: And

1:13:43Tom Fordyce: John Terry? Yeah, JT's very good. Harry Kane's. Harry Kane. That's a decent

1:13:48Chris Stark: four ball, that. I think that four ball with managers versus players, that's a pay-per-view event. Yeah. Coming out of TNT Sports, It's a new one invented by Peter Crouch. There we are. Misfits Golf. Bloody hell. We've started it. We have. Can we have a cut of that? Live Golf. Okay, last one, Martin. We won't keep you too much longer. No, no, it's no problem. This has a retro feel. So, hi, Virgin, Shimpads and SIDS. I was just guessing. Very quickly, Martin. Who do you think's who here?

1:14:28Chris Stark: Virgin, Shimpads and SIDS. Well, take one out of it. You're the virgin. Thank you very much, Malone. I never thought I'd see that from you. Since you've been... That's been your catchphrase before you became a media darling. You know, if I wasn't a footballer, what would I be? I would be a virgin, yes. Okay. And since it's obviously you. Yeah, and then I'd take you. So you should. Okay. I was just catching up on the adverts pod, and you missed the one that's had kids all over the country volleying drink cans into the bin. He's right. It's an absolute classic. John Barnes LucasAge sport ad. Give it a Google.

1:15:07Chris Stark: You won't be disappointed. I don't have to Google that. I'm sure you know that one as well, Martin, right? Quenches your first fast, I remember. Quenches your first fast. Yeah, and then he screwed it up and volleyed it in the bin. I found this trip down memory lane inspired me to create a very striker-heavy advert, Eleven. So you'd be happy with this, I think. Yes. Stella Courtois reassuringly expensive Ben White's lemonade I'm a secret lemonade drinker brilliant Mark over Mars a day helps you work rest and play brilliant I love it because I'm on that page the boys will tell you I like these just one Pedro Cornetto give it to me it's amazing Snickered-less Enelka If you're not yourself when you're hungry I'm loving it

1:16:12Chris Stark: Washing machines live longer with Callum Wilson Wow Dwight Yorkie, not for girls Maybe she's born with it Maybe it's Maybelline Wright. Wow. Dennis L 'Oreal, because you're worth it. L 'Oreal. L 'Oreal. Okay, Stuart the Jeweller, that's right. That is well class. Well done, Stuart. I have to say, Stuart, I think that's one of the best we've had. So good. That's right down my sense of humour line. Very, very good. Have you heard the one about the zoo janitor at the National Museum, the National History Museum? No. Terry Dactyl.

1:17:02Chris Stark: I'd like to take you out for a hesky tonight, though. A meal. Very good. On that note, honestly. What do you get when you cross an England batter and a form of transport? No idea. Joe Rootmaster.

1:17:25This should be done as well as Terry Dactyl, didn't it? Martin Tyler's stand-up. You should make it happen.

1:17:30Chris Stark: Why is there no drugs in the jungle? Why? Because of paracetamol. Actually, my daughter does stand up, and I've been thinking I could be a script writer, but no, I can't. I'm definitely four out of four four out of four here mine honestly loved every moment today it was just a great podcast so much great insight and obviously a lot of fun and yeah obviously your views as it rubs off and you can see why you've been doing it for so long so thank you very much get the train in with all your future guests obviously that's helped a great deal

1:18:05Tom Fordyce: definitely, mine thanks so much loved it thank you thanks Martin

1:18:40Thank you. distractions. Get focused on what matters. Shop AlphaBrain now at onnit.com.