Sam Allardyce: “I’ll Never Get Over It” – His England Regret, Mind Games & Signing Okocha! | EP. 427

0:00Chris Stark: Hello and welcome to the Appian Crouch podcast brought to you by Paddy Power. I've got Sids with me and Chris Stark. Is everyone okay? Nice weekend? Really good.

0:09Tom Fordyce: Very good.

0:10Chris Stark: You alright? Yeah, mine was quite quiet, bizarrely. Yeah. Why is that? Do you know what? I was doing a lot of sporting activities with the children. Very much a family weekend. Okay. Well, regards to them. Regards to my family, yeah. How good is that? Basically, it was kind regards to my family this weekend. Can I just say a great one I got in, I was walking through Soho in London near my work and I was walking through there and there was a guy just in, you know, in like the sort of a shop door frame sort of thing and he's just stood there and I go walk past and I'm on the phone at the same time and he just looked up.

0:45It was cool as anything. Just went, regards to your families, Chris. It's just perfect. I love the, not another word was said. Superb.

0:54Chris Stark: I love the nonchalant one. Yeah. Really, really nonchalant. just, oh, regards to your family.

1:00Tom Fordyce: It's the best. It is the best, isn't it? Because actually, it's like a secret code. It's great. I had it at Waitrose on Friday and as I was walking out, the fella's walking in and he sort of just gave me a nod and I thought, I was like, hey, you doing mate, all right? And I walked out and literally I was 10 paces down outside and all I've heard is, Sid's! So I've turned around and he's just gone, guys are the family. Like, it's all this pasting, isn't it? It's the best. I love it. I don't think it works like this with any other podcast or any other you know person celeb whatever it is it's amazing really speaking of sort of things to do with the family I was DJing on Friday night in a place I want to get your views on this thing I know which is where I'm going with this but I was DJing in a place called Tully's Farm yeah

1:45Chris Stark: oh yeah hold on is that that's the the Halloween the Halloween thing I didn't know what to expect before it I wasn't aware this thing is like a massive sort of scary that's not for me that I don't think it's for me you must have done it no I haven't done it I'm just I'm just so I just really don't want anyone to say shall we do that because I don't want to look like I'm going to I've shit myself brilliant so I've just managed so far I've managed to get away with it this could be good forfeit fodder for you if you lose because I I can't even watch horror films they're just they're not my bag at all even when I used to go on dates what I would do is if the girl was there if you imagine you sort of got you got the arm around kind of thing I would stare at the corner of the screen in the cinema.

2:29So she would think I'm doing nice at this screen. Really well done. But the reality is I'm spending two and a half hours just staring at the little fire escape in the bottom. Fantastic. But you look like nothing bothers you.

2:44Chris Stark: Yeah, don't worry about me. Nothing will scare me here.

2:49Tom Fordyce: But what about the other night then? Did you... Was it the opening night? Yeah, it was the opening night. I go every year. I'll take the kids every year I do yeah yeah go every year oh huge oh we've all gone together what Tully's Farm is massive is that I think we're going to unlock something it's the new one it's the kids I go for the kids forget puddings oh no pumpkins

3:16Chris Stark: Halloween is massive pumpkins is massive could be great for you honestly because this is very popular and your ginger like it all just comes together I reckon we could have you face with Halloween like Halloween is massive Halloween is massive so I was it's big isn't it I love Halloween Halloween is Christmas well I think we're going to unlock a new personality trait of Sidwell here because I'm really not into any of this scare stuff it's not for me did you do it but there are certain people that are sickos I think that love that feeling of being terrified and so what I had to do Sid is I DJ Jade's, I did my DJ set, that was all fine, all good.

3:57Random assortment of people there from sort of, Kate, random assortment, like I look out to the crowd, there was Katie Price one minute, then I look up and Pat Sharpe's giving us a wave, and then Barry from EastEnders, and then, what? Honestly, this was the opening night, wasn't it? Yeah.

4:15Tom Fordyce: The entirety of Love Island, you know, all of Love Island. It was, I mean, it was mad to see. so anyway I DJ that do my bit and then I was going and the lad who takes music gigs was like no contractually we've agreed you'll do one of the scare mazes

4:33Chris Stark: brilliant now do you understand the concept well yeah you go through and they just shit you up basically fucking hell yeah it's good it's not for me really mate you spend the whole time in a sort of fight or flight you know and it's the chainsaw it's like come chasing after you why

4:52Tom Fordyce: I'd love to. Is there the fashion lights in the container? So you enjoy this? I get that feeling where it's like, why am I doing this? I also get a quick realisation of, I fucking love this.

5:04Chris Stark: Yeah, this is fun. It is. Well, I did one in Portugal, right? And you know when you come out at the end and you come out into like, then people just watch sitting there having a coffee and it's like normal during the day. And basically, my whole family jumped on me. So I couldn't kind of, I was carrying three of my children and Abbey was like off my neck. So I'm now walking through with all these kids and everyone's jumping out and I'm going, oh my God, I've got my eyes shut so I can't. And then we all fall out at the end and we're all on the floor like that. You know, like next to the fellow in the coffee shop, we're all on the floor.

5:40And I'm like, I don't think I'm going to do one of those again. You're so right. The worst bit of all is the last seconds they chase you out with the chainsaw. So it's like, bang, bang, bang. You run out screaming and there's just people just waiting you know because you've gone out and exit they're all just getting on with the fairground rides and that terrified if you're into it I'm sure you love it but not for me no but you love it's good to know this you love that

6:07Chris Stark: that sort of I think that you've got to be a bit of a sicko for that really person I'd actually like to go down there and be one of the actors again I don't I'm sure they're going to be in touch imagine that imagine that fucking hell scissors popped out and all three of us be the actors that pop out last week oh well Crouchy if you lose this this season we should remember that for one of the forfeits getting proper shitted up it's not for me I really don't want that in my life especially if we arrange it so that it's like ex-managers and things as some of the ghosts that pop out at you ghosts of my last alright so we got Big Sam on today exciting stuff right character yeah big character I'm really looking forward to this do you it's tricky with some people before they come in you sort of preempt the vibe a bit I slightly feel certain guests and it's especially the managers with me if I'm honest I feel incredibly intimidated by them there's just an aura because obviously they respect you boys because they

7:19Tom Fordyce: you know you've gone and done amazingly in the field so have you in your field yeah yeah it was a different game isn't it really

7:27Chris Stark: I understand what you mean I think he really has got a presence about it he's got a big presence yeah sometimes I think in these situations it's best to just sort of melt into the sofa here a little bit and just we'll see how it I always remember when he's been a pundit like certainly for some England games and things like that he's been like a pundit like and talked about me before and it's always been really really good yeah so but i've met him a few times but you know

7:55Tom Fordyce: be nice to sit down lads have loved him that have played underneath him so sort of always got positive things to say about him that i've spoken to lads that we know kev nolan ginge all the west ham lads loved him yeah be good to dive i don't know what it is about this guy but he always gives the impression of me that he's got um you know one airpod in his ear at all times like there's always he's always on some sort of call there's always something going on you

8:21Chris Stark: know there's some opportunity didn't he always have the because it was him and him and sammy lee sammy lee like buzzing around and it was that is that why i'm thinking of it he was way ahead with that yeah he'd be because that's because he used to watch it in the stands in the stands first half and sammy lee would be downstairs just running around barking instructions that must be the association so that's in your brand god I can't wait to get into this what a guy

8:56Chris Stark: welcome to the podcast Sam Allardyce how are you I'm not bad how are you I'm really good thank you I felt I had to reframe myself there from saying Big Sam well it's no problem I mean goals goals what's the deal with Big Sam because I'm pretty big and no one calls me a big Pete I think out of the playing days nearly 6 foot 3 at Bolton and tough you know what I mean dominating hard limited playing ability but made up for passion and aggression like you mean you know and evolved There was a programme on the series then, you won't remember, called Super Sam, Superman, like a Superman, Supersonic Man.

9:52They used to call me Super Sam Bionic Man. And so that stuff, and it went from that to Big Sam, like you mean. And it got carried on from there, really, through my playing career and into my managing career.

10:06Chris Stark: Talk us through your playing career, Sam, because you were a big, I suppose, fierce centre-half, were you? Yes, I think it's no nonsense, you'd probably say, but I learnt how to play because you couldn't get to the top end if you couldn't play a bit. We had a manager who was particularly good called Ian Greaves who took us to the division one at Bolton after three of us and he really changed our style. in those days you were always comfortable at the back with the ball because there was always the goalkeeper who could pick it up so we could play at the back up as much as we wanted to try and play at the back but if we were under any severe pressure there was always the safety of knocking it back to the goalie who could pick it up and start again that all got changed by the rules like I mean but I think from there it was always about if we're playing round at the back the emphasis on playing right about is to get the ball forward so every time you get the ball we want you really to pass it forward first before you pass it sideways and backwards otherwise we end up going nowhere so so it was always it was always build up from the back with progression you know and i think that lots of coaches today talk about possession without progression and i think that that's why we're we're in a little limbo at the moment on the entertainment value.

11:30Let me call it the entertainment value rather than the technical or tactical value. Entertainment value, without a doubt, has diminished and I think that that's really sad. That crossover when you went from losing the passback rule, or I guess the passback rule being created, what was that first season like? Because I've never heard anyone talk about it, was it? Well, I think that the tactic to get us used to it because it's difficult was, you know, subconsciously you couldn't just go out and then think, I'm not going to pass it back to the goalkeeper because you've done it for that long. And obviously the goalkeepers themselves have to subconsciously make sure, well, I can't pick this up now.

12:20And of course, the goalkeepers then were not as good with distribution with the feet as they are now. they've had to learn to be an outfield player now when they play. So he basically said that really, you're only going there at desperation costs now, you know, and in the end you really need to try and play it forward. But he'd say play it forward and push up and squeeze up. I mean, we use the offside law to the, you know, you'd never be onside if you played.

12:53Chris Stark: well my limbs are too long I look at these people drawing pictures now I do you were never a channel runner were they so you're usually alright you're the old man I think that you know that we we compacted the game you know and our all our time was high press so you know last month of the halfway line was a sissy you know what I mean that was common knowledge early on in my career because it used to leave the centre forwards and the wingers in our half offside and if they were too lazy to get back if a ball got played forward it didn't matter but it got played forward there and he was offside over there he was still offside so we used to do we used to go sprint up till the ball got in the opposition's hands and then we'd reform and re-get get united in defence and then play from there but like, you know, stepping up and frustrating centre-forward was a big part of our game, you know, in that time.

13:58And then when the laws on offside started changing, it became absolute chaos because not even the referees and the linesmen knows what the offside is now, do they?

14:10Chris Stark: No. You know what I mean? We have a Games Gone board here, Sam, and, you know, various different pieces of things that have crept into the game. And I don't know how you've just mentioned there on entertainment value. Yeah. Like, is there things that annoy you in today's game that you'd like changed or things that players might do or managers or anything that annoys you? I think VAR Yeah. hasn't worked.

14:38I, after goal line technology, I was all for VAR. But it isn't the VAR that doesn't work. It's the people who run it. Because the technique, the technology is there, but the decision-making still isn't. It's still subjective. And it's created a massive frustration with everybody, which dilutes the entertainment, like celebrating a goal and so on. So, you know, if they could crack that by, you know, doing more, I don't know what they're doing, more training at it, more dedicated people just on the VAR, even though they won't like it. Perhaps more referees that have just retired who do it on a regular basis.

15:29So they become, you have to remember, a referee can't admit this, but they hate doing it. They've said it to me. It's the worst weekend. If they've got VAR, it's absolute garbage.

15:43Tom Fordyce: What about the modern day set piece coach? Or do you have him in your time getting up at set pieces and saying, Sam, sit down, I've got this one. I don't mind. I don't mind it. You know, it's a new... Because I saw it in America when I went. I mean, I never got to a set piece coach, but, you know, all their players were set out. Was this when you went and played in Tampa? In Tampa Bay Routes, yeah. So that's where I got most of my stuff and pushed it into football when I got the chance, like you mean, which, you know, set pieces became a big analysis, like you mean. I mean, we used to get slaughtered for it at Bolton because 38 % of our goals would be set pieces.

16:24I think Arsenal might have got there this year.

16:27Chris Stark: Didn't they? Does that validate, you know, what you were doing back then? Does that make you feel, when you see it now, do you go like, I got so much stick for that? Well, they're all doing it now. I mean, you know, I mean, Arsene Benger got a lot of praise for doing it, like I mean, but unfortunately we didn't. But I mean, in the early days, it's just about tagging you in it. So, you know, you get tagged and you live with it. You have to. You can't do anything about it. What you do is you're, if I had to do something about it, it would have been in the early stages. But then again, you know, some people like you, some people don't, so you just move on.

17:06Chris Stark: I mean, you know, obviously when I look back and think of managers like yourself and obviously what you did certainly at Bolton was incredible right and the team you built there wasn't just hard cases it was some serious talent in there serious quality in there as well and I think Tony Pudis is the same obviously I worked with Tony and he's a friend of yours I loved playing for Stoke and I loved and I think we had so many good players as well and we had a system and we were utilising throw-ins corners to the best of our ability you know does it validate kind of how you guys were and you know the way the game's gone now and you look at it and like everyone now it's all genius what they're doing but you guys were that's because it's the top boys though yeah it's because it's Arteta and people like that you know what I mean you know what really bugs me is why on earth does every coach sit in his office and follow somebody that's done something else what's wrong can they not be inventing enough to think about what they need to do themselves so somebody starts a long throw and maybe in the top level of the primal then everybody starts doing a long throw somebody starts passing it from the kick off to the goalkeeper and kick it into there and so everybody starts doing it I'm going have you got no brain yeah think your own especially if you've got a set piece coach and you've got a set piece coach should be good enough for how to take a goal kick shouldn't they to set peace it has a point

18:34Tom Fordyce: you know what I mean you saying You saying that, do you think we'll go back to two strikers? Because you say it just takes one team to do it. It depends how you're on. They were in two strikers. I played in the, managed in the bottom division with the back five, which was unheard of. You just get slaughtered for it. And then I went 4-3-3. Most of my time at Bolton was all 4-3-3. the old anchor man. It was one and two. It wasn't two and one. I was one and two. The one in front was the one and the two were either side with a responsibility there. And I think that the only time you played with the two was if you played with the back five.

19:21So you could play with the two up front then if you wanted to, like you mean. It's no good playing up front if you don't go play off them. The entertainment value going forward on this subject is the entertainment value is less because there's less centre forwards who are any good. There is none. You agree with that, Crouchy? No, I mean, in numbers. Yeah. Who has more than one quality striker?

19:48Tom Fordyce: Yeah, I think you're right. If you look back in time and you look back and you said you had Andy Cole, like your Les Ferdinand. No, I'm just thinking of the England squad then.

19:55Chris Stark: The England squad then.

19:56Tom Fordyce: Oh, yeah.

19:57Chris Stark: Like, think about Letizia, Ian Wright, didn't play for England really. Les Ferdinand, didn't play a great deal. these are like top 30 goals a season Robbie Fowler probably didn't get enough games Dion Dublin people like that top centre forwards Teddy Sheringham I know played a lot for England but still so many isn't it it's the same in the Premier League even with all the foreign even with the world wider football open up to the Premier League hardly anybody has two strikers I don't know not even Man City have two strikers they're Ireland they're not anybody else you know when I got to Man United when I first when we got into Premier League 2001 Man United York Cole Sheringham or Solskjaer yeah he had he had four to pick from pretty good level you know what I mean you know what I mean but I mean they're not there anymore I don't know what and every we all know every kid starts playing up front don't they and then works their way back but so we're at we have a lack of high quality front men today I mean we watch Harry Kane we're in serious trouble aren't we for England yeah when Harry stops you know all he's out of in there he's gone to Saudi you know what I mean so he won't be part of the squad now I don't think so you know who are we going to get who is there

21:25Tom Fordyce: yeah

21:26Chris Stark: you talk about centre forwards right how crucial when you were at Bolton was Kevin Davis to what you did. Well, I think that when you got, I mean, we got Kevin Davis on a free transfer at 27 and only needed a bit of managing. I thought he was brilliant. Yeah, yeah. Just really. When you speak to the centre-halves, who I played with, and I'm talking top centre-halves, I think they'd rather play someone who would be a hell of a lot more highly thought of than play Kevin Davis. Yeah, there's only one thing Kevin missed was goals. But for what he gave to the team was a lot more opportunities for other players in and around him.

22:06So we always bagged around the fact that until we got Nicholas and Elka, we had to say to all the attacking players, your goal can't always have to try and improve by one or two every season. So if you calculate at the end of the season how many goals you've scored, which means that we've scored more goals than last season, then we'll finish in an higher position. Then on the reverse side of that, we'd have to increase our... It's quite a simple math for your analysts. If you increase your clean sheet record, your league table position can jump up five, six places. So you can do the math on where you're going to finish in the league and then you can do the math on how you're finishing the table in terms of goals scored and goals against.

22:57Then you can do another table on set pieces scored for and set pieces against. So you put those together, and if you're coming out on top on all of those, one is you're not going to get relegated if you only just got up, and two is it gives you the opportunity to increase your quality of player in general play, and you start finishing up in the top six, top four, and so on. like you mean

23:27Chris Stark: so when did when did this come in you know we're so heavily reliant on stats to buy players now on you know we look at Brighton and Brentford you know the owners their model you look at obviously the stats the data every player wants now everyone's thirsty for more knowledge I think the data analysts now are kind of almost running football now above the manager they're so important you had the foresight of that you know right back I remember watching it was a little piece I think it might have been on Sky where we went inside the Bolton training ground and you were talking about all this stuff.

24:02Chris Stark: In my opinion, way before a lot of people were doing it. How did you... Who was your influence? Well, I told you they saw it in America. I mean, it's so stat-based, the NFL. And it was something that modern technology was bringing at the time. that in football gets quite frightened about change. You know what I mean? So modern technology wasn't used by many. And I think that we had the quality of staff, not me, the quality of staff. The choice, the one good things we did was choosing the quality of staff and the quality of staff to have the foresight to have a look at it and say, what can we do with it?

24:51not what everybody else does what we'll do what we want to do with it not what everybody else talks about so we would break that down to anything you wanted so what what we decided was that we would break it down individually and then we would break it down for collective use and then on top of that the player had the opportunity to look at more so he could go to the analyst and say can you expand on this can you clip me my game can you tell me my past map can you obviously listen like everything else some players just not interested you got to accept in the end the ones that are going with it the ones are not as long as they're playing well enough they're in the team um but but overall collectively the good thing is about when you knock on my door and say, why are you not playing me gaffer?

25:50Well, your stats are crap. You've dropped 10%, 15%. I warned you last week or I warned you two days ago. Because, you know, the old days about the manager knocking on the door and I was one of them as well. I wanted to know why I wasn't playing. You know what I mean? So now you've got a player coming in and they say, and he goes, so if he hasn't looked at his own stats before he comes in, he must be silly. Well, he's there in black and white, It's got an opinion. You know what I mean? It's like, well, you know. And I think that it took a long time for the players to become so involved in it that they really wanted it.

26:34They really got heavily involved in it. It was all like everything new in football. Oh, you know, what are you doing? You're showing me up. You know what I mean? Stuff like that. But at the end of the day, as the momentum carried up, they would all talk about it. They'd all be interested in it. Not everybody, but most people would be interested in doing it. And it certainly helped with signing the bigger players. Not just that, but all the other stuff we did. And the fact that you've got a big player who's playing the World Cup, who's playing the Champions League, who's playing top clubs in Europe, and you got them into your little club at Bolton and then they go, well, this is good.

27:16I've not seen this before. And they go, well, you know, I quite like it here. You know what I mean? So, you know, so they evolve. And of course, everybody, number one is everybody loves playing in the Premier League. So you, but then once you create the culture, you've got the stats and then you've got the technology and then you've got the culture, the culture, football club, six, eight, ten different religions, you know, nationalities, ten, twelve different nationalities. You've got to combine all those together and put them in a dressing room and put them on the training ground and get them to play for each other and play together.

27:59And the treatment that everybody got was the reason why they all liked it and they all pulled and when Rodney Marsh particularly I always remember in the early days saying oh they're only here for the money you know they're not here to they just want to pick the money up and that's it like I mean if a top player comes to your football club I don't know you you're a top player yourself but top players come to your football club like Yuri Yoko have JJ Kocha Fernando Yaro it's a bit name dropping now no no you left down Campo you know there's no way they want to embarrass themselves based on their reputation before they got to us no way so they they was the ones that took us to another level on the pitch and it dragged a lot of all the other lads who've been there with them it made them better players and the hard bit was of continuing on and finding the next one like I mean but you know it was a really wonderful time for me based on the on the work that we did and the staff that we had

29:12Chris Stark: what were they like as people as well like obviously JJ Ococha did your famous one of you dancing with him he looked like he brought you know some joy to you I mean for me to watch someone like JJ Ococha I remember I played against you it might have been Carlin Cup and he scored that free kick do you remember I was at Villa and he scored that ridiculous free kick where he bent it with the outside and then he used to do that one where he'd roll his foot and then he'd go one way and everyone had got the skills I mean you must have seen things in training that you never thought you'd see never ever no and I think that this is how good JJ was he'd come down to the academy sometimes and just show them tricks yeah just come down to the academy for half an hour you know and just put on the tricks for the lads like I mean I don't know under 12s 13s 14s you know what I mean and let them let them see and just say look this is how you do it and then go and practice it you know what I mean and see what it was he was good enough to do that some players you know you leave them alone because you know that's not what they want to do and you don't want to it's not them but he was like generous that way he was generous that way yeah that's close I mean what an education for them as well to watch JJ Acoccia doing some tricks and go and copy it yeah I mean the fans nicknamed him JJ Acoccia he's so good they named him twice so it stuck you know i mean it was it was a really good time i mean i mean i met him in charles de Gaulle airport twice to try and persuade him to come once before the world cup and once after the world cup and luckily for us but luckily for us the premier league didn't make anybody else in the premier league hadn't made contact because we got in the first time before the World Cup and he says I'll wait I'll leave it till after the World Cup and we thought that's the end of it like I mean as soon as the World Cup had finished or as soon as they got knocked out he was back in Paris so I went to see him again and clinched it that time and he came over straight away

31:22Tom Fordyce: What do you say? What do you say? Not necessarily to him but to the others as well like superstars global superstars you know the pedal around the world in the highest games to come to Bolton you know for the Premier League I know the Premier League is a big coup but how do you get that coup over the line because you know is there a speech is there something in particular that you say there was a particular

31:45not all the time we didn't with JJ we just did it me and him because he was one of the few didn't have an agent did his own deal did you say that was at the airport as well Charles de Gaulle yeah

31:56Chris Stark: Charles de Gaulle took a private private room but most of the time we'd fly to them with Lucy JJ and I used to take the video lads with us and say you know this is it here's Bolton most of them know that it's like I mean here's a stadium which is a good stadium next to Manchester you know what I mean so from a logistics point of view we show them where Bolton is and then and then it's Premier League football you know what I mean and it's this is Premier League football. And we always had, or I always had the little thing at the end, like, you do know if you play well in the Premier League, we won't be able to hold you.

32:40Some big Premier League club's going to come and knit you. You know, and we won't be able to do anything about that. But, you know, if you want to show what you've got on the stage, then, you know, come and enjoy it. But we hope that you want to stay. We treat you so well, you won't want to leave. So that didn't happen much. It happened with Nicholas Anelka because he was the one, he went to Chelsea for big money. But it didn't happen to many. Most of them really, well, they went to play football, but not in England.

33:10Chris Stark: With regards to obviously your management, quite often you would come in and fight fires, I suppose. And, you know, teams were struggling. You'd come in and it felt like you would sort things out and you'd keep teams up, you know. Was that, you know, is that a slight on you? Well, you know, did you think you'd better? Like, Peter, it became that in the end, didn't you? And I think you're like, what happens in your career, this sliding doors, don't they say? Don't slide doors. There's times when you get to a certain stage where you'll recognise what you do, which is obviously Bolton. And on the back of leaving Bolton, it was either going to be Man City, which, well, it was going to be Man City until they sold the club.

33:57So the owners of Man City sold the club and had to ring me up and say, Sam, I'm sorry. We can't have you as manager of Man City. The new owners want Sven.

34:07Chris Stark: So is this the Thai owners before Abu Dhabi guys? Yeah. Yeah. And so finally, Freddie came for me after the three times. So twice before it hadn't worked and this time it did. So I thought, well, got Freddie, he's massively passionate about Newcastle United, needs to satisfy the fans and get into Europe and give this big budget to go and buy the players. And sat there two months later and here comes Mike Ashley. And that's no disrespect to Mike, but he's walking like most new owners, walking into a football club and not knowing how it works or not know what it functions. So all my targets had gone because there wasn't the money there.

35:03I don't know how much he'd paid for it. It sounds nothing now. I don't know about$1 ,800 million. It's nothing now for more club values, is it? But it was a lot then. So Mike had to... We started okay, but I mean, it was Newcastle. If you don't get the results there, you don't play entertaining football and score, and you start losing games, you're going to get sticky. I mean, I think that I could never build the squad enough at that particular time. So I was in survival mode. Then when I got to January to buy some players, I knew it wasn't going to happen. It's easy, the football club is when you put your – because you start looking in the latest November, if you get nothing back from your board, you know something's going to happen.

36:00Is that the rhythms of it? I've always wondered. Well, there's just a lack of communication. Can we start to look at buying this player or that player? Then you hear the rumours from the press. You press mads who I've known for years singing. You're not going to be there much longer. and someone said, oh, fair enough, whenever they decide, they decide it, like you mean. So I think that was in early January. So it was really not, from a career point of view, it's devastating. Well, devastating for you, first of all, but from a career point of view, it took me into the saving manager mode. So the next John was Blackburn, you know, bottom of the league, Sparky got sacked and we survived.

36:50And then from there, mind you, West Ham was a great ride.

36:54Chris Stark: Yeah. I mean, that was a great ride. Yeah. I mean, that was ready to go and really to go places. But there was a level that the board at West Ham wouldn't go past. And you get there and you go, what's it like, Bowden? I mean I think you were at Liverpool when we were you beat us on New Year's Day at Liverpool yeah in fact you might have fucking scored yeah I think I did yeah and that was I didn't want to say that was our that was our first defeat over over Christmas and New Year we'd won all five so I'd gone into the for the market for buying some players then and they said no we don't want to buy any players so we've got to go Champions League because we're third in the league we don't need but we need players these lads are you know we've only got a small squad anyway that's well that's history but Newcastle was the same so every football club has a manager of course you're not a manager now you're only an head coach so that responsibility doesn't lie with you as much now you try and explain to your board what we need to do now.

38:14And if you don't do it now, you'll suffer the consequences later. So our job is to think into the future. And the past is the past, it's gone. The future is more important than the past and what's going to happen, not now. What's going to happen in one, two and three years' time and why are we not planning now for it?

38:35Chris Stark: Is this the frustration? This is a lot of frustration with the fans at the moment, especially West Ham fans, I think, like where they you know time after time after time they get a team together and you think right we'll go to the next level now and it's obviously the same board in charge and they don't they don't go for it again they want to they stagnate because they think okay we're safe now it's like Tottenham isn't it yeah it's similar and I think it's a frustration with a lot of fans but the big thing and I have to emphasise this now I mean because Everton you know I went to Everton I finished 8 at Everton got sacked by the way I still don't know why that was, but there you go.

39:14What outside influence made the board sack me? I don't know. It never got explained to me anyway. It's another thing. So, because that was it. That was coming from all what we'd done and this opportunity to build another great team to go into Europe and a new stadium. so but I think that we we get to a level and they can't they can't go beyond it they just and I have every respect I mean you give me four I had four great years at West Ham you know first year promoted three years staying in the in the in the Premier League last season I was there again a bit like Bolton December we're 4th so it's me one is they did this to Moyes one is every press conference is saying why haven't you got a new contract I said because the owners want to wait since he wants to end the season and I'm saying are we buying any players and they're saying no well it's obvious if they're not giving me a new contract they're not going to want to buy any new players and I said we're fourth in the league and we won't last what do you mean it's your job to make them last I said but they won't I said that's why I'm telling you we cannot sustain it because because of suspensions injuries and depth of the squad so all the other clubs are going to go out and spend some money all that and then we're going to end up languishing with the same squad, even though it's good enough now.

41:00If you hit a few injuries in the wrong area and we get back, then we'll start. And I think we ended up way, somewhat daft like, 10th or 11th, which should never have been the case when we were going into January in fourth position. But we just, that slide started to happen, lose that confidence, few injuries. You know what I mean? Few older players that felt the fatigue, but you know I mean in the end you have to deal with what comes your way so but when you have to put your name to a big big big signing you know you have to be very careful now

41:37Chris Stark: you do is there a nervousness like if you've invested I've done the right thing your opinion it's your opinion you've made the club go out and buy them absolutely yeah and then the nervousness of like I hope this I hope this works otherwise you'll be in trouble I mean yeah well also with those clubs right especially I think West Ham especially and Everton because I look at I know you're mates with David Moyes. Yeah. You know, when you look at the amount of outgoings at Everton and the amount of money they've brought in and then the reinvestment in the club. So obviously from your time there, it's a similar pattern, surely.

42:10Yeah, Everton's problem was recruitment. Most clubs' failures is recruitment, no matter how big or how small. So in today's world with algorithms, like you said, and data pumped in and spewed out. Depends what data you put in first, how reliable is it, and what algorithm pumps out the data in. But what you've not got to forget is you've got to go and watch them. Somebody has. And if you don't, you're risking just one system, where all we used to do was only have one system, which was scouts, ex-managers, ex-players, ex-coaches. Now lots of scouting is done by analysts live, which I don't agree with because ex-players, ex-managers, ex-coaches can see a lot more in the game when you're buying a player than an analyst with all due respect to them.

43:15They've only learnt that again through doing analytics, not through watching and not through seeing, not looking at, they'll be looking technically, they won't be looking at the, for me, they won't be looking at the, how brave is he? You know, does he look for the ball in the right time? Has he gone hiding? You know what I mean? Does he play better at home than he plays away? You know what I mean? So that's a real, you know, a real marry-up of, if you've got both, which I believe Brighton have, on so analytics gives you it's all about not spending too much money when you're in football because scouting is always pulled up about the cost of the cost of scouting like what why do we pay all this money for scouts like I mean so if you break down the analysis and you've got your budget we could break down the analysis and the the scouts could go and watch the player that we could possibly buy whereas before we got that everybody were out scouting and just coming in with recommendations and recommendations from other people and what they might have heard on the grapevine so a good chief scout might be sat in the stand and they all end up coming together most of them over the years and they hear have you heard such a body like Yuri Yorkayev a Yuri's been bombed out at Kaisersloat and I believe that if he doesn't get a football club first, he's not going to be picked for the French squad.

44:50So you saw an opening. So we went and signed him because I said, you'll play and prayed that he could still because obviously he hadn't played for Kaisersloat that much. But, you know, a Yuri Yorkayev, 85, 90 % fit was always going to be better than what we got anyway. but because you give him the opportunity, it gets him in the French squad. So there's many ways to catch the player at the right time and encourage him to come to the... Now, Uri liked it that much. He'd come back for three years after the World Cup. So I said to all our staff, listen, we must be doing something right. He's come back.

45:33So we're on the right path here. so we must continue to keep growing and improving because we're if we can get Yuri Yorukov to come we'll get others

45:44Chris Stark: I have to ask you Sam obviously you get the England job and you know what it's about what's it now 10 years I think it is 10 years but you know I mean you make the famous comment was Sam Aladice I have to raise that one right you know you weren't getting the jobs that coming from it you felt you should have done with what you achieved there's a big there's a big there's a journalist on who up in the northwest who monitored the horses that was his job called Fred Shawcross Fred Shawcross and Fred Shawcross wrote to me you actually wrote to me that you know so you need to be called Sam Allen if you get a better if you get a better job you get a much better job did you say that is a throwaway comment because I've done a few in my life that have followed me so I was in the press conference and I thought, and I just threw it out and used it, like I mean.

46:40So, listen, mind games was easy in terms of the fact that you've got to join in. You know what I mean? You have to join in mind games because as a manager, well, you're not a manager, like I said, you're an head coach. There's a lot played on it now. And I think there is still a lot played on it, like I mean. And I think that if you don't participate, I think people can take advantage of you by not creating a stir that would benefit you in terms of getting the result. Not breaking the rules, but just creating the opportunity like winding up players, other players winding up players on the pitch or managers like me winding other managers up.

47:25Because I watched it being done at the top all the time, like Alex doing it and people like that and I thought well I might join in

47:32Tom Fordyce: you know what I mean why not you know what I mean he'd give us an edge we'd give him an edge who did you find that you don't do the most I didn't mind game Arsene Wenger popped into my head

47:41Chris Stark: yeah I'll say this about any manager that I didn't like well and there's there's a couple it wasn't that they weren't great managers they were it's the disrespect you know what I mean and Arsene was not shaking my hand we played our second game I think we got back in the Premier League and we drew 2-2 and and I think that he just walked off and I just thought it's not really it's not really I didn't think that I didn't think that happened like you mean so I lost a bit of respect for him there but I had every respect for him as a manager and always did like you mean but that carried on but we played really strong contested football against Arsenal because we you know we were playing the Invincibles yeah as we did at Stoke yeah and I think he took exception to Tony Pulis' football yeah we said yeah but they were just they had more bookings and more sendings off than we ever had

48:44Tom Fordyce: yeah I mean their disciplinary record at that particular time was one of the worst in the Premier League but that got washed over by the talent that they had yeah but you know but we challenged and we stood up to them a bit like you said and we stood up to him and in the end you had a good record against Arsenal didn't you especially when he was a Bolton yeah so was he just frustrated do you think oh yeah in the end he got frustrated I mean I think there was just one or two games before the title when they played us at the Reebok we were actually 2-0 down and we drew 2-2 in the last minute I mean Fergie sent us a crate of wine because they didn't leave after that I mean so is that true?

49:29I didn't expect it that's unbelievable

49:32Chris Stark: when you get that little crate of wine they must make you chuckle chuckle that like me so it was it was a great it was a great I mean it was a great feeling for us because it was near towards the end of the season and coming back coming back from 2-0 down against Arsenal is not no mean feat like you mean but most of the time actually at the Reebok we beat them I hated going to Reebok I've got to be honest with you it was such a tough place you wouldn't have hated if you'd joined us I know yeah I was close a couple of times who was your agent then Manassi Manassi yeah why did he not let you come there because I knew Manassi quite well yeah well it was you wasn't it we were no not at all I'd love to play for you I think twice when you were QBI yeah and then was it Southampton Southampton yeah I think twice yeah I think we were close a couple of times yeah I would have loved it and I would have is it because you didn't meet at a Paris airport well not particularly it would have been much better if we met down here in London like me and then I could get back home like me so I think I think like everything else I mean our our job was our job was at that particular time the hard thing is is when you take on what you've you've learned it's very difficult to put it into another club unless you unless you make your time for it unless you've got to make your own time to get it in so the only there's only two times after that and that was like West Ham you know what I mean four years so I could I could get it get it back into the into where we were at Bolton and I started at Newcastle but then obviously I got sacked because most of the staff moved to Newcastle with me.

51:28So there was no problem in terms of changing the culture and getting in the right way and moving Newcastle forward the right way. So when you're going in and becoming the saviour, that's just a different job completely. That's just, you just go in and you just go, you forget all that stuff for the future and you just go bang, what's happening now, today, tomorrow, next week, next month. After that, I'm not interested in anything after that until we're safe. Then once we're safe, you know, am I staying? Am I going? What do you want to do? What do I want to do? And then move on like I mean. So that's a different, my approach, that's completely different to my approach in the long term, in the building of what I hoped would have been Newcastle and the building of what I hope would be Everton, West Ham and Bolton like I mean.

52:25So there's two different sides of managing the survival side and then there's the build and evolve side.

52:34Tom Fordyce: Looking back now at the clubs that you went in for the survival mode obviously beforehand you do your due diligence you make your phone calls you've got the job you're in there but once you've got in there what club did you realise after the first day or couple of days or first week that you thought this is West Brom? Was that down to culture, the confidence? Yeah, two things. The team was, in all fairness, not that we bought a player, but we got four lone players in to change it. So I actually said, look, you have to help me and we have to have new players. And they said, look, Sam, we can't buy new players in case ultimately we will get you some lone players.

53:19So we worked very hard for the lone players. But it still wasn't enough. And COVID, it killed the whole of everything I do was out the window because nothing could be done. So we were travelling on two coaches and we were all sitting in your own bedroom. There was no team meetings in areas that if you didn't get a mask on, you got fined. I don't know how much it was. 20, 30, 40 grand a time. If they came round, there was people walking around the training room.

53:53Chris Stark: So there was a lack of communication you would get normally at that particular time to change things around as quickly as possible. And, of course, because if you don't do it within two or three weeks, it's very difficult because time runs out from day one that you get in. But that was a big mistake. Had my time over again, I wouldn't have gone. And empty stadiums. Tough. Yeah, that is a killer. I was doing a lot of the TV stuff. It was hard. It was, you know, it was depressing, but it was, you know. So I had to say I made probably the wrong decision there. But, you know, at that time I was looking forward to getting back in, but I should have perhaps thought about it a bit more.

54:43The other time was just a... a case of helping an old mate out. Where was that? Leeds four games.

54:51Tom Fordyce: Yeah. You know what I mean? He's at Everton now. Angus. I went with Angus at Chief Executive at West Ham. Right. Got to know him really, really well. And he rang me up when he was at Leeds and said, will you help us out for these four games? And I said, yeah, I'll come over. Leeds United, why not? But I'm glad to see what they've evolved at, like you mean, and how they've survived. But obviously, it's not long before Leeds fans demand more, which is what the culture and the history of their football club is, like the demand at Everton and the demand at West Ham and the demand at Newcastle. for some reason I think they sometimes have a greater demand than their actual they can actually achieve it's the history isn't it it's the history of the club I suppose you know what I mean so there's difficult places to be and of course today unless you've got the finance to and of course there's no point in buying a football club if you're a multi-billionaire now is there because you can't put your money in

56:05Chris Stark: yeah with the financial fair play stuff I don't think anybody's going to bother buying a football club now unless it's ego why would you if you can't put your billions and trillions that you've already earned and you know there's no point is there all you get is aggravation Sam we've got some incredible questions we put it out you were coming on the show today we put it out to the fans we've been inundated for people with some amazing questions but before just before we get into that I've got to ask you obviously what should have been the pinnacle England I've got to ask you how you view that now

56:45with great sadness of course and never ever ever will I get over it and this is just a short shortest answer really for me about the lack of understanding by the FA at the time and in terms of not giving the opportunity to defend myself a decision that they just made in one day and and not allow me to be able to say i'm not guilty of this which i wasn't um so but then of course they made the decision bang straight away there must have been i don't know what what what they did or what frightened them somebody must have frightened them into making that decision quickly but it was never um it was never a break of the rules or never anything other than

57:46getting done by the press as usual you know so i kicked myself for getting sucked into it But, you know, I tried to help somebody out that contacted me and said it'll do me a power of good if you talk to them. You know, I'm really, really struggling. I've known him a long time. But it ultimately ended up where he did. And I think that, I think the lack of it, I think that it failed miserably, that documentary, because they never got what they said they were going to get. so they didn't get any manager except team cash they'd got in or anything like that so for me probably was the worst thing because there's the England manager let's let's do a bit on him yeah do you know what I also think as well and I'm really interested to ask you this what what you would have done with that England team because I feel like everyone was sort of slightly robbed of the opportunity of being able to see what what would have happened what do you think would have happened with that England team The first thing is, not in the memory a man did, I think I'd get the England job, even though I did ask at that stage.

59:01You know what I mean? When I saw her and I said to my agent, I'm just going to go and pop myself and throw myself in the mix. In the mix. And obviously did enough for the interview to convince them. And maybe, there is a maybe, by the way, when I think back of it, or maybe have blown them out of the water with how many changes they were going to make.

59:23Chris Stark: Really? But wasn't that, isn't that what we've kind of been craving? I often think back and think like, you know, I was like wandering around St. George's Park, like going, change this, change that, do this, do that. Me and Sammy Lee, like it was about three months before we got there. And they were going, they must have been going. And I was going, next time you've got to ban everybody from the hotel. what do you mean i said you cannot have families and kids in the hotel when we're when we're meeting up for england i said it's like they've got the top floor and nothing else so they can't go anywhere so they're like they're like trapped i said this is this is the national training ground this is the this is this is the you know the ultimate of this you've got ordinary people when England's first team are meeting up, wandering around the hotel, looking to see if they can get a picture or an autograph.

1:00:23I said, it should be a sterile area. So then there was photographs and then there was food and then sometimes I wonder, did you do too much? Did you upset anybody? I don't know, but I just... I just went off on the mode I thought would be better for us and better for the lads. It sounds like you really took on the manager role as opposed to what you were talking about earlier in being a head coach nowadays. Is that how you viewed that job? Yeah, well, I mean, that particular title as manager of England is managing it. You don't have to worry about contracts or buying or selling players. All you have to worry about is being able to communicate with the club, tried to get a relation with the club, which is difficult as England manager, and trying to get the player on board.

1:01:26And what time have you got to spend together to get the players ready to do the business? So we started to use, I was trying to introduce App Technology, which had just started, well, it had started quite a bit then. So app company come in and so we could send all the stuff through prior to the player arriving. So we could then concentrate a little bit more on the game and the game plan itself. You know what I mean? So, you know, and obviously the privacy of that app and the security of that app is massively important because if that gets hacked and it ends up in the paper, if you like, you mean, so, well, that's all at a cost, so I don't know, you know, so I just had all these wonderful, wonderful ideas.

1:02:21I always felt that the only barrier for England, and I said to the players and I said, the only barrier that stopped you winning is psychological. Not technical and technical, it's not that. Psychological. You just have a psychological barrier when it comes to that and it happened again. this time round, isn't it?

1:02:43Chris Stark: Do you think we're close though? Yeah, I think we're close. We're not far away, are we? We are very close and indeed, like you mean, and emerging new players is, you know, is nice to see but I just have this great reservation about who's going to replace Harry Kane and so we need, you know, you know, there was a way in Rooney we had to get replaced as well, didn't we? You know, I mean, he's just out of this world and then before that there was an Alan Shearer and then there's a crouching between that somewhere as well as I was there. How many goals did you score on the trots when you got a play?

1:03:19Chris Stark: Oh, I got 22 for England. Yeah. The goals, yeah. But no, I love playing for England. The trouble with him was he doesn't look well. He doesn't look well. He doesn't look. He hasn't got that he hasn't got that aura about him, that presence. He's tall and lanky but he hasn't got and so why are you signing him you're just going to everybody you're just going to pop it up to his head always I mean his ability his touch his technical ability is unbelievable yeah and never Andy Carroll had the same problem yeah Andy's 6 foot 4 like you mean he but I mean and his touch and his finishing was was absolutely excellent like I mean I think that that and the oh I often think that Benitez got rigid because Liverpool fans started saying all we do is play off Crouchy you know what I mean and I think that that's what that's all of a sudden and all of a sudden this period we've had of tippy tappy football means that we've we can't be doing that we can't be having fans saying all we do is punt it up to I mean yeah there was a real stigma about that wasn't there is there anything better than playing off the front man him holding it up lay it off get it wide and get in the box is there anything better than that no you've got an aura it's what Crouchy's lacked for I agree he's de-auraing me he's joined in with the ad some of these questions but oh yeah we've got to do these if you don't mind some because listen there's so many people we've got in touch it's been amazing Guy Yardley says talk us through the iconic Swansea game when you were managing West Ham hands on hips laughing at Chico Flores Chico Flores is one of the best it's phenomenal stuff yeah social media hacks that went out it's been a couple you've had over the years so that it was in the press conference after the game and I'm going what are you on about what do you mean so somebody said somebody showed it to me I said oh yeah I said I did that to try and get him sent off because I wanted him to punch me that's what I wanted that's why I put my hands in my pockets and thought, go on.

1:05:38Chris Stark: Go on, have a go. Go on, have a go. Really? And the other thing was, he's the centre half and he squealed. I mean, I mean, I wouldn't, if I was playing under Ian, if I was... Get it on the board, shall we? Honestly, if I was playing under Ian Greaves and I squealed, he'd drop me. I wouldn't play the next game. You know, you soft bastard. He's screaming. He said, you don't show... and when you're you don't you get your teeth and you get on with it like old school that was yeah I want to get him sent off if I could we still won the game anyway Sam there have been quite a few you're right things from social media especially there's one that we've been asked about quite a lot and it's the one from you know where they show the lineups on the screen and then it's manager I'm folded looking at the chip shop so one of the big questions has been what would be your chip shop order a kebab shop or a chip shop what would you rather answer chip shop would be fish chips mushy peas and curry sauce great so bad it's a staple yeah staple diet like I mean I mean I'll tell you this now the lad the lad who decided to put that picture in got battered I said you're looking to keep your job I said you really I don't do you mean the Sky Sports one not coming to me well the club released that I said not coming to me and saying which one of these because they took a ticket when you get there they take a thousand don't they yeah millions and you said you just let that one out anyway it's been quite a laugh really because I did a bit I did a bit on social media you know that in London where they get the fans the fans to come and ask you a question and all that and then I went to the DJ place in London after that and did one of them at the burger shop.

1:07:43So it's created quite a bit of social media business for me where I'm quite a big fan. I like to say I'm getting paid quite well for it. You know, it gets me out of the house and it keeps me going. So there's a picture of me like, you know, looking up at the burger list, which related to that particular picture.

1:08:02Chris Stark: Superb. Who would you rather go on holiday with? Adam Pardew or Tony Pulis? Ooh. It's only one of them. What a choice that is. I'm going to go Tony Pulis. Yeah. I'm going to play safe. Play safe. Is that the Uber Eats? That's Uber Eats? Yeah. That's better than an advert. Parma. Nice chip, that one. Oh, lovely chip. Was it? Yeah, that's fabulous. Did the three of you, did you go and have a nice time? This is what I like to imagine. They're all still, they're actually doing that. Did you go on holiday together? Did you take the wives or was it just the three of you? Was it a lad's trip? Well, just the three of us then.

1:08:42I think that it was, you put yourself in that position and you've, you know, I mean, you do it with your washing powder. Yeah, I certainly do.

1:08:51Chris Stark: You know what I mean? Big spill, big deal. It comes off the gate that way. You know what I mean? And it's brilliant. but I think that the three of us doing we were all a little bit worried because you know we got they got makeup for us they got you know they got outfits that we're going to have to put on and stuff like that stuff we were going to have to eat and well not eat but obviously when it's cut it we spit it out and then here's the script like so we were all a bit concerned about how it would how it would look or how it would come on oh that's brilliant but they were so professional they hired this great big villa for four days and the amount of people that was running around to get these.

1:09:33I mean, we filmed it for three days. Yeah. For 30 seconds. You know, like they've got about, I think they've got about 14 clips they can use. But they must have seen it successful because they've rolled it over into this year. Yeah. You're going again.

1:09:50Chris Stark: You're going again. No, no, they're keeping the same ones and going into this season with the same ones so they might still have one or two tucked away that they didn't show last season I think you've got to do a different country every time I want to see well I agree he agrees I agree with you 100 % where have you been Sam we've pushed for that one we'll have a nice little Italy trip shall we I mean England was good because the Currys came and said come and do a Currys advert like you know yeah okay I'll end up with a Currys advert it's promoting the new HD TV and the remote control and you want to sit and watch it do you know and you just you know have fun earn some money why not well listen Sam it's been an absolute pleasure have you I know you've got a big dinner tonight yeah yeah it's a pleasure to come down and see you it's a great character like I said you know I did hear you say that you will one day visit our podcast I will visit your podcast 100 % anybody out there that hasn't watched no tippy tappy football and all social media sites please follow please have a look please have a look Please have a look.

1:10:55He's a top, top draw. You're more than welcome.

1:10:56Chris Stark: Brilliant. Thank you very much, Sam. Been an absolute pleasure as always. Thank you very much. It would be. Thanks for coming on. Thank you.

1:11:11Chris Stark: This next part of the podcast is supported by Paddy Power. Why the football not, lads? Yes. Got another absolute cracker coming today. When I got married in 2020, our wedding clashed with England versus USA at the World Cup. obviously couldn't miss my own wedding but I wasn't going to miss England either. So I changed the start time of the ceremony to make sure everyone could watch the match. I spent our honeymoon repeatedly sneaking away from my new wife for all the other games to watch them at the resort bar. Why the football not? Am I right? Double down. Well, he's doubled down. He's gone at the wedding.

1:11:44Chris Stark: He's removed the start time and then gone on honeymoon. Well, it's just bad planning really first and foremost. Terrible planning, but I would say he sounds like a very patient missus.

1:11:56Tom Fordyce: Well, I was wondering if they're still together. What's that, 2020? Six years ago. Going strong, I reckon.

1:12:03Chris Stark: Yeah. Back stronger. Back stronger. I don't know, he's come in, kind of set his stall out, hasn't he?

1:12:10Tom Fordyce: Yeah, straight from the word go.

1:12:15Chris Stark: You know, why the football not?

1:12:17Tom Fordyce: Yeah. No, I get it. Why not?

1:12:19Chris Stark: Yeah. Yeah. I think, you know, as long as you're together and she seems happy. I think why the footballer? I agree. You just triggered a memory for me though. On my honeymoon, I went to Ibiza. So we got married in Spain. I did that. Went to Ibiza for a few days. Put ourselves in a really nice hotel because you know, you do that on the honeymoon. Walked down to the pool and I thought, brilliant, married now, got my missus, everything's happy, the honeymoon period. And Giroud was sitting around the pool. Olivier Giroud. Olivier Giroud. Don't need that on your honeymoon, do you? A pair of budgie smugglers on.

1:12:57Down the pool. Trying to stop your wife looking at Olivier Giroud. That's not ideal. Why the football knot?

1:13:11Chris Stark: She might have said the same thing, actually. Olivier Giroud. Why the football knot?

1:13:23Chris Stark: oh superb well keep them coming in enjoy those well oh my god Jesus Christ I mean this Chris is he's on the stony beach already by looking at it how much points is safe that's what I want to know I mean let's put this in perspective right Sid's on 8 points Crouchy's on 9 I mean that's a ding dong battle yeah and Chris is just ploughed into the lead with 17 points yeah

1:13:49Tom Fordyce: look at the smile look at the aura of this man

1:13:50Chris Stark: new man absolutely new man it's a real blow that I got I got no aured off by Sam Allardyce isn't it I don't think that's going to help your chances at all what do you reckon Big Sam saying you got no aura no aura I'm hoping he got his words confused or do you actually think I've got no aura like I've got it yeah it wasn't Big Sam's no aured me off I will be thinking about that I think for the next the next week I just didn't expect it I just didn't see it coming I came in I bounced in here today yeah gone absolutely slumped on the way out he was on the waters and coffees as well can't even blame the bedding he's just gone you nah see no aura

1:14:31Tom Fordyce: do you know what do you know what it is no aura do you know what it is it's because you didn't sign for him that's what it is it's true

1:14:37Chris Stark: what did you think I didn't sign for him you've got to be couldn't believe it come for you there no your aura

1:14:42Tom Fordyce: Crouchy you said do you know your problem no aura that's up there with someone saying you've got no personality is it it's still killer isn't it if someone sees it's actually just a mad thing to say if someone sees he's a lovely fella but no personality it's like

1:14:57Chris Stark: oh is that one yeah I love him love him really nice guy really nice guy like wouldn't want to be stuck and live with him no it's unbelievable we won silverware the other night come bouncing back in big Sam in the chair we got we won we won British podcast awards we got one didn't we yeah I can't hold that I haven't even touched on that and no aura no

1:15:17Tom Fordyce: it all with no aura I think subconsciously he's doing it he's bringing us back

1:15:22Chris Stark: down to earth that's what he's doing is that what a good manager would do yeah we've gone massive time there won a podcast award and he's just brought us straight back down to earth but that's cool that's something for us to work on I think throughout the series we'll find ways to build your aura you know any suggestions welcome as ever we'll have a look yeah okay listen the big weekend fixture brought to you by Paddy Power is a monster listen it's Liverpool versus Manchester City it's at Anfield it's just after all the charges have been confirmed it's going to be a hostile atmosphere how are Man City fans going to react to the whole scenario you know you'd expect them to obviously back their team are they back any owners you certainly know where Liverpool are going to stand on this

1:16:07Tom Fordyce: could this go as far as saying the atmosphere of this could be wild because Liverpool will obviously be singing as per normal because it's a big game but I think the Man City fans will come out back in their team as well well of course they will so they're going to be singing

1:16:21Chris Stark: they're going to be right behind them let me give you the odds Sid's right you've got Liverpool they're joint favourites at 6-4 which means a Man City win is also 6-4 yeah which I find I find mad I mean are they going to be galvanised Manchester City Liverpool at Anfield in my opinion they're not favourites makes it a strange one I don't know I think this is tricky also I just think long old international break hasn't it I think everyone's just gagging to be back. So, you know, it's pent up for a little bit.

1:16:53Tom Fordyce: It's hard to call these ones after international break. Players coming back, injuries, travel. I've said it before, but this game last season, Haaland scored in the last minute, I think it was, wasn't it? Was it a bit of a question mark and all that now, isn't it? I'm pretty sure he scored last minute. Was it a penalty, maybe? I think there was a bit of controversy around this one. I remember celebrating in the kitchen watching this. I see a Liverpool win here personally.

1:17:22Chris Stark: Do you know, I'm going to ask you a personal question, lads. If you're, for instance, if you've been away for three weeks, you know, and you do come back home, you know, would a missionary be an option?

1:17:34Tom Fordyce: I think you've got to start with missionary.

1:17:36Chris Stark: Well, I don't know, because I'm just saying, obviously we've had the international break, haven't we? You know what I mean? You do come back home. you know do you go straight it depends I mean go straight in some go adventurous and you know go a little bit off piste yeah like a 3-1-4-1 maybe yeah some go missionary what do you think well this is the question isn't it equally it's sort of backed up isn't it could you say you fancy Liverpool gushing of goals I will go I think it'll be goals you have to assume so I don't know in this do you know what I'm going to go Liverpool on this you know I'm trying to keep a sensible head on every one of these predictions but I don't I don't think this is even a flare prediction I think it's a weird one with City how they're going to respond to all of this at the moment but I think if you're looking on the balance of things surely this favours Liverpool going into this game so I don't know where to go I might go missionary okay sounds like you are yeah go on 2-1 Liverpool lovely alright I'm going to have slightly more adventures been away a bit yep we missed it yeah I'm going to go I'm going to go with 3-1 to Liverpool what are you

1:19:02Tom Fordyce: you're both back in Liverpool yeah

1:19:04Chris Stark: listen they come out all guns blazing and win may, you know, it should... Man City have won they've not lost. They've won five out of five. I just don't know how it's going to affect them.

1:19:16Tom Fordyce: I'm going for a Man City win. Okay. All day long. All day long.

1:19:22Tom Fordyce: I'm going to go 2-1.

1:19:24Chris Stark: Okay.

1:19:24Tom Fordyce: You want to go Missionary for Man City?

1:19:26Chris Stark: Yeah. I mean, that's... I think that's the obvious choice. And I think they will... They look like... You know, they'll be galvanised. They'll be into togetherness if they do do that. and they've been much better than Liverpool, let's be honest. But I'm going to go with the Reds. What happens whilst this is all clouding over, by the way? Like whilst there's no decision made and stuff like that. If you're playing, are you just...

1:19:50Tom Fordyce: Crack on. Crack on. Can you? Yeah, you can. Of course you can. Outside noise. You'll be surprised when you're in a football club. Can galvanise you? Yeah. Yeah, because how much would you be talking about it on the training ground? Not at all or like...

1:20:04Chris Stark: Once you've had the conversation and I wonder what's going to happen this and that. you're down to business aren't you and I think it can bring you together if you think I'll get a win at Anfield what a statement that is like we're together sometimes that siege mentality of like everyone else is against us Man United built it for years you know everyone hates us all referees are against us we'll just keep winning and I think it brings you closer as a team Do you think captain's role is really important in this one from a city point of view?

1:20:32Tom Fordyce: Yeah manager I think senior players Mariska's got a big job I keep hearing about senior leadership team in a lot of clubs now is this just common practice in every team of course used to just be the captain whereas now it's like four probably

1:20:47Chris Stark: senior players four yeah another big game by the way Manchester City Manchester United versus Spurs so the phrase it will come good nearly got printed t-shirts for us because we say it every week it will come good for Spurs yeah I'm kind of in that zone of I'm worried it's not now

1:21:10Tom Fordyce: I was worried for Man United as well at the moment we're not we're not putting trees no they're not they're not doing well at all no big game is for both teams I still think I'm going to get this job done do you? yeah I do okay I'll ask you on the fence and straight I'll say 1-1 draw okay

1:21:25Chris Stark: I'm going to go 2-1 Man United yeah I could sort of like the United shout there especially given and I backed them to win the league. To be honest, that's the only thing you've done wrong in this league. That was a huge mistake. Clearly that was a huge mistake. Of all the crimes going on in the world, that was up there at that point in time. Some of the most outrageous, it was outrageous, wasn't it? Some of the hate you got from that. Unbelievable.

1:22:02okay so because you've done 2-1 United I inside want to back Spurs now because I don't think United will win by a bigger margin than that and you've gone 1-0 didn't you yep

1:22:19so maybe this is the week it comes good for Spurs oh

1:22:22Chris Stark: it'd be a great show yeah wouldn't it go on I'll go 2-1 Spurs if that happens I actually hope it does to some degree but that is just shows how how you're performing this season

1:22:35Tom Fordyce: I think if you get the correct result there then you've won the league already you think it's a massive game you know like you can just see it with a Leicester or something it was just meant to happen are you calling him Leicester?

1:22:48Chris Stark: are you calling his reign at the top of the league a Leicester type sport? he's doing a Leicester at the moment no one can understand it

1:22:55Tom Fordyce: you've come back stronger 5000 to 1 it's unbelievable who's going to be in their pants at the end of the season if I win it though that's the question surely that's you Crouch we are

1:23:04Chris Stark: well this is it's a point between us at the minute go on say the words if I if Chris Start wins this league I'll be I'll present this in my pants you can fuck off there'll be some some sort of disgusting forfeit I'm sure oh guys promise you I know there will be okay we've got Arsenal v Leeds yeah okay I think if Leeds are at home I think it's a different scenario yeah I do think they are a different proposition they come out guns blazing at Elam Road don't they it's unbelievable yeah but I can't see past anything other than an Arsenal win here again not the right Leeds I thought I have done what are you

1:23:47Tom Fordyce: what are you going to go for? 3-0 3-0 I was going to say 3-0

1:23:51Chris Stark: sorry got in early you did okay

1:23:55Tom Fordyce: I'm going to go 3-1 Arsenal then as well 3-1 3-0 3-1 3-1 so I can't yeah I'm going to have to go Arsenal really

1:24:104-0

1:24:12Tom Fordyce: what could happen why not can I just can I change one actually 2-0 well hang on what have you changed yours from 3-1 3-1 2-0 2-0 why he just looked at the complete no no I don't see I don't see Leeds scoring Gazza's made some good points here I don't see Leeds scoring 2-0 they could leapfrog Arsenal Arsenal will be hurting after that 3-0 against Brighton they're going to want a clean sheet so I've got to go 2-0 okay what have you gone? 3-0 so I could go 2-1 I don't I just think there'll be more goals I mean if you get 4-1 I mean you might as well give him a trophy now. Well, maybe not. Maybe I'm not representing Leeds well enough there.

1:24:59I mean, look at it. To be fair,

1:25:00Tom Fordyce: their results have been good. I mean, that would be something if you went 3-1, even though I've just not come out, I've come out of 3-1 and gone 2-0. If you was to back 3-1 and it comes in. I'll go 2-1, Arsenal. Okay.

1:25:14Chris Stark: Odds are correct at the time of recording. Please gamble responsibly.

1:25:23Chris Stark: Well, big sound. superb love to have him on really big character of the game and I just want to say a big congratulations to you boys as well obviously British Podcast Award for you know best in the sport category Sid it's been a pleasure I've been like you know real privilege to have you on a real great addition great signing signed you on long term contract now very pleased to have you thank you Chris again you know stalwart of this podcast has been there right from the start Gaz obviously in his debut season has produced Miracles Jamie the same again Sam Chris Jade John everyone concerned with this podcast Ross

1:26:07Tom Fordyce: respective families

1:26:08Chris Stark: all your respective families I'd just like to say thank you again for making this podcast an award winning podcast absolutely thank you mate it's been a hell of a ride

1:26:19Tom Fordyce: hasn't it been a hell of a ride I'm not going to follow Sam's Sam Allardyce's tips of knocking on the gaffer's door on the Monday, I'm going to be knocking on your door tomorrow.

1:26:29Chris Stark: Are you? Yeah. Yeah, fair enough. Alright. Well, listen, as long as you don't bring any aura, you'll be fine. Can we say thank you to you as well? Of course. Rita and no aura over there.

1:26:41Tom Fordyce: Wow. These are going to come in now thick and fast.

1:26:48Chris Stark: Oh, damn. Just as long as we just don't make any nicknames over that.

1:26:57Chris Stark: We'll see you next time.