Stuart Pearce: How PSYCHO Went From Electrician to England Legend & Brian Clough Stories! | EP. 422

0:00Chris Stark: Hello and welcome to That Pete Crouch podcast brought to you by Paddy Power. I'm joined as always by Steve Sidwell and Chris Stark. How are we? Well he's here. Yeah he's here. He's back in the Chumbwaan Bar. I'm so glad to be back. Yeah there's nothing better than walking in here and being back in the Chumbwaan Bar and being with you boys. I've missed you boys. I don't like the dialing in one. I don't like it. I don't like it. I'm not a fan either. But it needs must and listen I'm here. Good to be here. Good one today as well. I feel like, yeah, huge, huge podcast today. Phil, it's actually been a massive few days for all of us, just to touch on a couple of things.

0:37I caught up with our good friend Barry from EastEnders.

0:41Chris Stark: Did you really? Yeah. I did barioke with him. You did not. I did see this. I didn't see this. I didn't see this. Oh, God, get that one. What? Yeah. This was at the big festival? Big festival. You know, Alex James' festival. They all send their love. Barry included. Sean, sorry, I should say. Sean, yeah, yeah. Yeah, well, I've done lots of things with Sean. Well, it was good fun. And the streets were headlining that, which was... Fantastic. As you can imagine, incredible. And you had a busy week, because I see you doing a... I see you reading Bedtime Story. I was doing all sorts of stuff. But the problem is also the good thing, is there's so many good things to do at that big festival, right?

1:15So I got booked to host the main stage and then do a DJ set there, which was all fantastic. By the time you finish that DJ set there, you've had a few beers and you're a little bit buzzy. and I was then booked to read a kid's story in like the kids tent.

1:32Chris Stark: Some turnaround, that isn't it? 100 kids, 100 in the tent. Have you seen it? No. They're all sitting down, all crossed legs, all on the floor reading a story just after he's come off for set. It's me reading Snail and the Whale just five minutes after I... Oh my God. I just don't know what to make of that. Life moves quick. It was so fun, mate. So much going on, I really we should all go to the big feast wouldn't it I'm not saying I've loved it that's something that I have I have done is obviously come home from golf or something like that and read my child's story I've done that before it's hard to do on a few beers it is hard to do but you're trying to pretend that you're not but also you see all the other parents in there they would kind of sort of a lot of them you could tell listen to the podcast and that they were so respectful of the situation you just saw dads would just give you a little nod like that yeah we know we know you're battered and then like a busy weekend i saw you all over football everything like that yeah i went i actually went to uh i went to chelsea brighton uh one of the one of the boys from school it's his birthday uh good friend of ours so our boys were invited along it was the only only family went along so it was it was his boy eight and my boys so they went to the game but we're in a lovely bit under the bridge at Stanford Bridge, which is great.

2:53Chris Stark: And all of a sudden, who appears on stage? The notorious SIDs up there. I had no idea. The man of the weekend. No idea. Well, it's obviously Chelsea Bright. I should have put two and two together. And yeah, unbelievable. Couldn't believe it. Great entertainment, Sid. I was wheeled out. I was wheeled out that day. I was doing the hospitality. Box to box to box, under the bridge where they was. You were like a prized cow, weren't you? He'd just been paraded around. Yeah, brilliant. Yeah, done a raffle and then I watched a game at the Director's Box. Yeah, well, I saw that. It was a picture of you, Sid.

3:27Chris Stark: So there's a picture of Ancelotti and Tuchel and in between them, just a seat behind, was Steve Sidwell. Yeah, they photobombed me, didn't they? They did, yeah. They did, actually, yeah. They, do you know what, Clem was, Paul Clem was next to him because he's assistant. You know well. Yeah, so we had a good chat but literally sitting behind them it was like watching sort of two kind of heavyweight mafia bosses just sort of every so often you just see you're sort of sorry I'm Thomas Ucone or Carla every so often you'll just see no no no do you know do you know what I mean did you hear no did you not at any point because you were looking serious in the picture that's gone everywhere by the way were you at no point tempted to just lean down and go yeah I was I was I didn't want to be busy I said hello they all said they all said hello they all said they sent their regards yeah it was our families it was the three of you there Carlos Angels I know imagine here it was good a bit surreal actually watching it from Director's Box but great game great game yeah it was a great game what a game of football for my boys to watch right and then yeah then afterwards we managed to meet Jaby Alonso so they got a little picture with Jaby Alonso which was great and some of the players obviously all they want to do all they want to do was meet Cole Palmer mainly and he did.

4:48Chris Stark: So that was incredible for him. Your youngest was getting the players to sign the cards as well. Yeah, he's got all these loads. He's got all these loads. He's banging to these football cards. I'm actually going after this. They love it. They do. They absolutely love it. Oh my God, they're fully on board now, which I'm so on board for as well because now they're starting to know the players now and that gets them more into football and I'm pushing it all the way. If you think it's going sort of back in time with us with the stickers. Yeah, it's the best. It's the new... It's the best. Love it.

5:16Chris Stark: I have to say, our guest today, I mean, we'd have all had stickers of him. Psycho, Stuart Pearce. I'm looking forward to this. Can't wait to it. Can't wait to have him on. Yeah. Character as well. Yeah. Okay, just before we, we did promise something from Shanika's box. Yeah. Which is, obviously, I'm going through all my stuff at the moment. I'm in between houses and, you know, potentially end up renting, I think. She's going to be a fucking ball eight, but, you know, that's where we are. My house isn't ready, obviously. So Shannika's box is in the process of being actually done for us? Yeah, the box.

5:50Chris Stark: We'll have a proper box made. If anyone can give a shit and try and do it, that'd be great. Sorry, if anyone listening can make us a box. No, I'm talking about the lads behind the ear. Last time we were told that we'd get a Shannika's box. Okay, no one's paid any attention. What are you imagining out of interest just to help the boys here? I think it's just a box. I don't want anything elaborate. it needs do you think does it not need to glitter or something does it not need to yeah Shaniqua's box to me feels should be premium well yeah premium should be premium well yeah wherever you can I don't know I'm sure we can muster up something but for now it's just behind here and for one lucky listener we're going to give this away look at that this basically is a Vanuatu shirt brilliant perfect for festivals it's got the what a local Vanuatian I would say and yeah it's great It's a great jersey, isn't it?

6:43Chris Stark: That is a festival jersey. I just think this is one of one. I mean, I don't know. I don't know for a fact. It could be loads out there, but that's the only one I've seen in the trouble. Well, to make it one-on-one, we'll sign it. Yeah, we'll sign it as well, yeah. And yeah, I know it's not festival season quite yet, is it, but it's still going on. Well, it's festival season, mate. Do you mean it's coming to an end? It can't be far away, is it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's try and drain every drop of summer that we can, I say. All right, yeah. So what are we saying? so are we saying for people to get in touch yeah listen follow along we're on YouTube and of course on Instagram and if you want a shirt I think there'll be a post out there and you can one lucky winner will win that I think that's the current plan yeah we'll do some sort of post you've got to be subscribed to the YouTube and following on Instagram so dead simple to do and that's how we'll begin it and we'll figure out from there yeah sometimes you've just got to start by starting haven't you exactly right okay let's get into Stuart Pearce

7:43Chris Stark: welcome to the podcast uh stuart pierce what an absolute pleasure pleasure to be here thanks for having me along oh it really is genuinely a pleasure i mean listen just off there we were hearing about your recent holiday plans you do things slightly differently to a lot of maybe footballers or ex-footballers i would suggest we were talking about the gigs that you go to and obviously your last holiday plans. Do you go to gigs every week, you said? I probably do average one a week over the year. I was at the Rebellion Punk Festival in Blackpool for four days a couple of weeks ago, sort of Sex Pistols, play Cardiff Castle and then the following day I drove up to Scarborough to see him play again.

8:24Just love it, punk and indie, love live music, always have done because I grew up in, when I was 14, I was living in London, the punk thing happened, Crouchy, you know what I mean? Was it off the charts? You know that little rebellious one? And you're watching TV and they had the Sex Pistols in 76, they were on with Bill Grundy. It was normal six o 'clock news and they've come on, they've started swearing and all sorts. I'd never heard anyone swear on the telly before. I'm thinking this is brilliant, you know, and just got hooked by it. and, you know, just fantastic. And the music thing just stayed with me, really, you know.

9:00Chris Stark: Yeah, really. And you're across, like, kind of new bands and anything that you get. Yeah, I mean, I get a magazine called Viva La Rock, which does all the old punk stuff, but also does up-and-coming bands as well. So you might get bands from the States come in. I like sort of Green Day, Blink-182, that type of thing. But the indie scene as well on Sunday, I went to see a band called Spectre and the vaccines that were good. And any new bands that come up, because people know that I like music, they almost tip me off on, oh, have you seen these? Have you heard these? And I'll pick up new bands where I can, you know?

9:33And when I'm on the radio, I try to sort of give them a mention as well because it's brilliant. You know, when you're trying to break through a music scene, you know, really difficult to break into. So I try to give them a mention and a bit of airplay if I can. Yeah, definitely. We always say that, don't we? We always say that football and music, there is a natural sort of synergy between it all. I just love the idea of you proper cutting loose at these gigs, though. Do you get right involved? I used to when I was a kid, not so much. The older you get, the further back you get. You know what I mean?

10:03So I'm hovering around the sound desk now. Let me tell you this story, Crouchy. You like this one. We were going to Russia for the World Cup in 2018, and Talks brought us in and give us a briefing. Be careful what you do. Don't take your own phone. We'll supply you with phones. They might get hacked. Don't do this. Don't get in taxes on your own. don't do this, don't do that. So we're all, okay, fine. You know, I've been to Russia before, but I'll take it on board. We landed, four of us landed into Moscow Airport. We walked out and we had a fixer who was assigned to us to look after us, a Russian fellow called Arthur.

10:38So Arthur's come straight up to me, and bear in mind, I've had all the security briefings and everything. Arthur's come up to me and went, are you Stuart Pearce? I went, yeah. He went, I've got something for you. and he's dipped into his top pocket. And I've got to say, my arse fell out there. Excuse my language. But I thought, I didn't know where this was going. And he's pulled out a ticket for an American punk band called Rise Against. He said, me and my mate Vladimir are going to Rise Against tomorrow night. Do you want to come with us? There's your ticket. So I couldn't really say no. And I thought, I've just met this geezer.

11:14What do I do? So I've managed to call one of the other Talk Sport boys and said, like, come with us, will you? Do you fancy it? He went, yeah, all right. He's into music himself. In fact, in Danter, he plays drummer in a Kiss tribute band. So he loves his music. So they pick us up. They take us to a seedy bar in Moscow. I don't drink. So I sat there. The barman's come over, and we're in a little booth. And he asked what we want. So the beer, beer, beer, I love an orange juice. And then he says something to Vladimir in Russian. and they all started laughing. I said, what's he say, Vladimir? He said, I don't really want to tell you.

11:53I said, go on, you're going to have to tell us. He said, never, ever bring a beep like that into my bar again because I had an orange juice. So we went to the gig. It was 2 ,000, all stood up, and Arthur and Vladimir said, you're all right here. We were stood at the back by the sound desk, and we thought he was going to stand with us. they've gone in the mosh pit for the whole duration, come back at the end of the gig, shoved us in a taxi and went, you should be all right now. And off we go. And you think that's first night in Moscow, you know what I mean? Just brilliant. It's not good.

12:27Chris Stark: But you're not, listen, you're not adverse to, to go into places and having a good time. You said before you, you've been to North Korea recently, not so long ago. Yeah, we went in 2017. I mean, we just love traveling. I always have done it. Ever since I was a kid, I always wanted to see every country of the world if I could. I think I'm on about 97 now, But we just love going to different destinations, myself and my wife. So when was it? Christmas before last, we went to Africa. So we went and saw the mountain gorillas in Uganda, Rwanda and Kenya, which was really good camping for the duration.

13:012017, I was sat watching telly and it was a Michael Palin documentary about North Korea. And I was just reading the paper and I looked and thought, well, this looks quite good. And I said to Kara, I said, you fancy North Korea? She went, yeah, all right. so that was it it was as simple as that so we flew out there it's fantastic we had eight days out there just really good I tell you what I don't like Pete I don't like the propaganda coming in my telly and telling me who to like who not to like who's a despot in the world who wants to start third world war I always think go and find out for yourself go and meet the people on the ground the people that live there and all and you have a totally different viewpoint normally when you come back than you did before you go so that's why I love travelling Yeah.

13:43Chris Stark: Did you enjoy it? I mean, did you have a nice time when you were there? Yeah, it was good. Very guarded. I've got to say, really guarded about what you can and can't see, but really enjoyable. I've got to say, you know, they give you certain restrictions, like the two glorious leaders you can't take a picture of, one of them without the other next to them. You can't cut off, you can't do this, you can't do that. They throw all these rules that you can do, but no one really checked it. You know what I mean? You can't go out the hotel wandering on your own. They take you to certain places, but you always had that feeling they're trying to show their country off in the best light.

14:18So I think you seem like quite a sort of straight shooter with everything. I guess the idea of a Stuart Pearce travel show should be one that we entertain. Oh, would you pay me to go on holiday? And when I'm out there, he's got to carry me back.

14:39Chris Stark: So you lot give me, This is a veteran that's doing it. You know what I mean? Come on. This is what you could aspire to. We'll have a conversation. Don't worry about these two, you know what I mean? They're miles off. Yeah, they're miles away. But no, it would be a utopian. I try to get sort of holidays or things that either I'm a broad coach in young kids or do a bit of leadership motivational speaking. so I'm on a cruise next week and doing a couple of presentations on that type of thing. So if you can combine the two, it's utopia really. Get paid for what you love. Of course, the North Korean Embassy is featured on the podcast The Fair Bit.

15:20Chris Stark: I grew up in Ealing. The North Korean Embassy is like, yeah, it's in Ealing. Ealing. South Ealing. It's like a detached house. I used to live in Kingsbury, not far from where Crouchy is and we got one thing in common. I don't know. I saw somewhere that he, when he was a kid used to do uh hedge diving and i'd do it as well like when i was a kid and you can what the hell's hedge diving knock on the doors leg it you know like knock down ginger we used to call it and then dive through hedges to get away and i i thought me and my group of mates were the only ones to do that you see a nice edge and you think oh i dive through that or dive over it we used to do that as kids and then crouchy we used to do uh hedge diving when i was back in Ealing.

16:05I thought, he's the Ealing branch. We're at Kingsbury. How come we never got together? You know what I mean?

16:10Chris Stark: You know what? We're not way up past it, mate. We'll have a little go. We'll find a bush. It's one desperate for the next Crouch Fest. I'm writing this down. We used to do it. I promise you now, we used to do it all the time. That was to come over. It was a long old walk from school. And we, yeah, we've various bushes. And then you get chased by someone. It's like, get out of my bush. Get out of my bush. Him hell. Love it. Oh, well, brilliant. I'm surprised more people didn't do it. No, I didn't believe it. It was great fun. Great fun. Unless you've got a rogue branch in there, that's a really good struggle.

16:40Chris Stark: I mean, I've been prone to like throwing my mates in a bush, but like, that one was always the one on the way home from school. Yeah, ours was to get through it on the other side. Or, you know, people have a lovely little carving or something with a hole in, you think, oh, that's ideal. I mean. I mean, the best thing I've ever seen, sometimes someone would be like, they'd open the front door and you'd be lying in the front garden than that. Sorry. Fell over. All right. So let's get into it. Because obviously you started non-league, right? Yeah. And, you know, what was that like? Do you reckon that made you the kind of person and the player you are?

17:18Chris Stark: Because obviously I think you were working as an electrician, were you? While you were playing football. Yeah. At first, well, I left school at 16. I wanted to join the army or the police. The police was my first choice and the army my second. And I failed both interviews as a 16-year-old. So I went to work in a warehouse in Stonebridge for a radio TV company called Binatone for a year. And then I got a job on the local Brent Council as electrician. So I'd done that. And then at the age of 60, I had nowhere to play football. It was bizarre really. And I went to my local non-league club, Wildstone, and just started there.

17:55So I ended up being there five and a half years and played 250 games before I turned pro and then done my apprenticeship as well. So I was fortunate. I'd finished my apprenticeship by six weeks, I think, when I turned pro. So the timing was brilliant. But I also played – my mates, they used to drink in the Wembley area and Preston Road area. They used to play on a Sunday morning for a team called Dynamo Kingsbury Kiev. You know what I mean? So I wanted to play. but because I was a non-league player, I couldn't under my own name. So I made up an assumed name. I loved playing in goal when I was a kid.

18:34I'm dying to hear the name. The diving and everything. What was the name? What's the name? What was it? I used to, I signed as a Russian goalie called Yak Jensen. Right? So every week, everyone had to sign. Everyone had to sign the team sheet, you know? So I used to sign Yak Jensen and I had like... Put that down. Now Jensen's got to go up on the board. In the days, you know, in the eighties, everyone had short shorts. So my goalie shorts were really long with CCCP across both knees. And Jensen spelt out my name down the middle, right? Which no one had their names on the shirt saying. So it was black and orange, my kit.

19:13And I used to go up for every corner bar none. So it was the first minute or the last minute. Didn't matter the score. I went up for corners. I used to take all the free kicks on the edge of the box. and I think it was the 81-82 season I outscored our centre forward with the dog white he got seven I got eight goals that year you know he was absolutely gutted when a goalie outscores you it's a killer for a centre forward

19:35Chris Stark: that is amazing I wonder if there's anything in the record box what was it Lev did you say Lev what's his name Jack Jensen Jack Jensen I wonder if there's anything in the record books yeah so I played eight goals one year yeah I played what did I play about two and a half years and then I was foraging outside my box in one game at home and I've dropped my shoulder and the centre forward's not read it and kicked me. He's missed it and kicked me. And I thought, oh, that's a bit sore, but didn't think much of it. I went, trained Tuesday, Thursday for Wealdstone and thought, oh, it's still a bit sore, but it'd be all right.

20:09Then we played away at Runcorn for Wealdstone on the Saturday. I went out to warm up and as I'm warming up, I'm twisting and turning and it felt as though someone threw a lump of mud at my leg. And I thought, Jesus, that don't feel right. So I went in to see the manager at 23. I went, I think I broke my leg. He looked at me and went, give it 10 minutes, see how you go, right? That's what I used to do in those days normally. So I went out and it weren't right. So I've come off after 10 minutes, ended up, went for an x-ray on Monday morning. I broke my fibula, the small bone, was cracked. And then it went as I turned in the warm-up.

20:47So that was the end of Yat Yance and I had retired at that stage. Yeah, that was it.

20:50Chris Stark: Well, I suppose you're on to bigger things then. When does it, was it Bobby Gould who signs you for Coventry? So how does that come about? Was that his Wimbledon days or did you know him at all? No, no. He was at Coventry. He was a Coventry manager who was playing in the equivalent of the Premier League then. And as I said, I'd just finished my apprenticeship, which was really good timing. We played away at Yeovil and sort of as we're walking out, one of the centre halves who plays for us, because most of the boys in my team, I think it was the only one that never really had a connection with a pro club.

21:23You know, most of them had all been at Tottenham or Northampton or whatever or Fulham and then come down the food chain and up non-league. So as we're walking out of Yeovil, he tapped me on the shoulder. He said, I think Coventry are here looking at you tonight, you know. So I said, oh, okay, you don't think nothing. I'm 21, I'm an electrician going to work. So you don't think I'll be a professional footballer tomorrow, you know. And Gordy says, I come down to watch her. and he said, I was sat there and on about 40 minutes, me and Marge, my wife, I sat there about four rows back and he said, you've cut the winger in half and he's landed straight over the holdings, over the first, second, third row, landed in Marge's lap.

22:04This is the gorgeous version of the story. So we ushered him back on the pitch. He's looked at Marge and went, come on, I've got a left back. So literally, that was Tuesday night. On the Wednesday, they agreed 25 grand with Wheelstone for me to go to Coventry. On the Friday, I went into Brent Council and said goodbye to all the plumbers, electricians and whatever and resigned. On the Saturday, I played against Basildon in the FA Cup third qualifying round, my last game. Didn't see the significance of that until the January. I'm cup tied. We drew Man City in the FA Cup. and I'm cup tied because I played Basildon in the third qualifying round and imagine how I felt you're trying to establish yourself in a team and you're cup tied for that so I go up to to see Gordie on the Monday morning to sort a contract out I'm earning 280 quid combined electrician and footballer and I had this bit of paper that all the ex-pros had given me asked for this asked for a signing on asked for that so I've got my bit of paper out and I've got the most naive man in the world I was at the time.

23:13And he said, what are you looking for? I said, well, you know, I'm this, this and this. You know, I'm on 280 quid a week or whatever. Living away from home now as well. He looked at me and went, I'll give you 250 quid. So I took a£30 wage cut for playing the top division in the country. Four games in, we play Liverpool. I get in the first team after two weeks. four games in we beat Liverpool at Highfield Road 4-0 and there's Delglish Rush Grobala and I'm doing it for a wage cut I mean this can't be right I know you can't believe it so I set my own business up and I was trading in the afternoons as an electrician just to make ends meet really really yeah I've done that

23:57Chris Stark: is it true that you had like an advert in the programme is that true yeah yeah so like match day programme you had like you were advertising your firm I've got it on my phone. Someone sent me it, actually. Yeah, Stuart Pearce. I was saying, it weren't Yat Gensen's actions, it was tax reasons. So I didn't advertise in the programme at Coventry, but I set the business up there. So I'd done John Sillett's barn, I wired his barn, I'd Kirk Stevens' house, Peter Barnes' a winger. I'd put some lights up when he moved in. So I used to do bits and pieces for the boys. And then when I went to Cluffy, I said to him, in our first meet, I said, do you mind if I advertise in a programme?

24:39I'm an electrician. He went, yeah, I know you are. I said, yeah, no problem. So I put the advert in for the first, probably first two years until I sort of got international recognition. And I thought, probably got to pull it back now a little bit. So you carried on being an electrician at that point. So I find that staggering. So if you signed, were you signed as a player and an electrician? Did they announce it as that? It looks that way. I've got to grant you that. It does look that way, but it was just to make ends meet, to be honest with you, you know, because 250 quid a week, having took a wage cut, now I'm living away from home.

25:14I've got to find, you know, I was living at home with my mum. She wanted a tenner a week, which weren't bad, you know. So all of a sudden you're away from home, you've got the travelling that goes with it, the petrol and everything, and all of a sudden you're really not earning a great deal of money to be a – this is the equivalent of the Premier League. It's incredible, really.

25:33Chris Stark: Just going back to Willstone, like, did you, like you said there, you didn't really have sort of mates that you was in and around like football with, but did you know or do you have an inkling that you was good enough to make the step up or did like your manager at Willstone or like, did anyone say like, carry on, you're just like, it's only going to be a matter of time before you make the jump or something's going to come and get you. Well, it's a strange one. You're underplaying it a little bit. It sounds like you just sort of had a couple of seasons, you've played 250 games and you just got a move to Coventry.

26:00Yeah, well, I had a couple of nibbles en route to be fair. I started, I was at QPR as a kid as a 13-year-old and had six months with them and turned up at the start of the next season as a young kid and they said, oh, no one told you. I said, tell me why. They said, oh, we don't need you anymore. So that was me having a Evo from QPR, the team I support, you know. And then I had a nibble from Hull City. They were in the second division as it was, as it is now, you know, bottom division. and I had a nibble from them, and me and the captain, John Watson, went up for a trial, and we played for Hull against Grimsby away, local derby, 2-2 game, so we had three days up there, and at the end of that, John Watson was, he was at West Ham as a kid, and some player, he was the England non-league captain, I revered him, looked up to him, probably still do, to be fair.

26:57I was only 17 I think at the time so went up there and I sat with it was Mike England was the manager at the time at Hull and he said oh you know we want to offer you a contract we thought you'd done well in the game blah blah blah and I thought Jesus Christ I didn't even know where Hull was when I was 17 years old do you know what I mean it was miles away and he said we'll get you a job on the council you can carry on your apprenticeship we'll get you on Hull council and you can carry on doing that and I thought about it and I thought, you know what? It just seemed too far away from home. So I turned that down at 17.

27:33Dave Bassett, we had good links with Wimbledon because our manager at Wildstone was also, Alan Batsford was Wimbledon manager. So we had good links with them. So I was injured for Wildstone and Alan Batsford said, go and train with Wimbledon, the crazy gang. They kicked me all over the training pitch. You'd never seen anything like it. and then as I was walking off, like no one hardly talked to us or anything, as I was walking off, they said, what are you doing here? Are you signing? I went, no, I've only come here to get fit. They were kicking lumps down at us. So I had gone in, I'd had a bit of treatment with a physio after training that day and Dave Bassett come in and went, we want to sign you but Wealthstone want 25 grand.

28:22so go back to him and tell him you want to come and sign for Wimbledon we've got five grand to offer so I said well I can't do that you know what I mean so I went alright so if you bump into Dave now he says I'm glad we didn't get you because we went out and bought Winterburn and he was a lot cheaper than you so that was that so I could have gone to Wimbledon potentially or Hull on that journey but I sort of got better and better then I was sort of in and around the England non-league set up I was close to it but never actually got in the squad, you know. I was at the trials and stuff like that.

28:55And then, listen, it just happened in a few days really. And then when does Forrest come about?

29:02Chris Stark: You were going along at Coventry then? Brilliant stories here, Crouchy. So, I'm playing for Coventry. We're away at Nottingham Forest. I go in and tackle Steve Wigley, Wiggs, you know. A pair of us go down, both injured. physios come on I'm nursing my knee like that looking down this fella's come on I've never seen him before in my life Cloughy's sent the Forest physio on to ask me how old I am right this is in the March during the game so Wiggs is down there injured the Forest player I'm here I'm being treated by the Nottingham Forest physio he's ignoring Wiggs his own player he says to me he said how old are you sir I went 22.

29:50He went cheers and ran off. He ran past Wiggs and straight back into the dugout until Cluffy is 22 years old. That is incredible. Anything with Cluffy is brilliant. So a few days, well, it was about a month later. That was the March. I thought it was strange, but I didn't put two and two together. In late April, we're playing Liverpool at home. So I'm walking up Highfield Road to play for Coventry, walking up Highfield Road, some bloke comes up alongside me and goes, you Stuart Pearce? I went, yeah. He went, do you want to play for Nottingham Forest? I went, yeah, all right. He went, give us your number.

30:32So I went, okay. So it was no mobiles in those days. So I've given this total stranger walking up Highfield Road to the thing my own phone number. He said, we'll be in touch. I went, all right, lovely. On the Monday morning, the phone went and lifted up at home and I went, hello, and said, yeah, Stuart Pearce, yeah. He said, it's Alan Hill. He was a goalkeeping coach at Forest who come up to me. I didn't know that. He said, I've got Brian Clough on the phone for you. I said, okay, fine. And you think, Jesus, it's Brian Clough. You know what I mean? This fellow was unbelievable. He comes on the phone and goes, do you know what I'm playing for me?

31:11I went yeah alright slams the phone down so I'm thinking my mind goes back to the interview with the army and the police failing them and I thought I've failed another interview here you know what I mean but that summer he bought myself and Ian Butterworth in a double deal butts was 250 grand I was 200 grand and off I went to join Forest

31:35Chris Stark: incredible I mean you're an absolute legend obviously at Forest you stayed there what was it 12 12 years yeah is that where I mean the psycho thing does that come in was that coming at Forest and I mean was that a fair representation of you know you played I mean considering Coventry signed you off the back of putting someone on on his wife's lap in row 3 was that always in you well putting all I tell you what as a non-league player I was never ever conceived conceived as a tough player honestly I weren't the experienced players used to look after me I had a level of naivety in those days and, you know, you probably didn't see a leg breaker coming and some of the experienced pros really looked after us.

32:18So I was never perceived as a tough tackling player in any way, shape or form. And then all of a sudden you go into the pro game and you just play the game as you see it, you know what I mean? Your history, where you've come from and all that type of thing. And, yeah, just really that was it. And then after probably a couple of years, this thing in the 80s, you know, like Dixie was the Terminator and someone else was someone. I got christened with Psycho from the Forest fans, which I didn't play up to off the pitch, but on the pitch, it had a means to an end. I never wasted a booking. I was very cold and calculating.

32:54I never wasted a booking on someone I didn't have to. So if I needed to quiet someone down, I might waste a booking. And I remember I'd never been sent off in all my non-league time. I skirted very close to it on occasion, but never been sent off. Never been sent off at Coventry. Went to Forest and we played Leicester away in the League Cup and I've caught their right winger with a tackle that really I should have gone to Ballstool for. It was that bad Crouchy, honestly. The kid's flown in the air and his little face, I almost felt sorry to him. He looked up at me like an abused puppy almost, you know what I mean?

33:33And I went in at half time and Cluffy went, can you keep out of trouble? And I went, yeah, of course, you know, no problem. On 47 minutes, I've missed time one on the same kid. It was worse. So I'm off. First time I ever got sent off as a walk down, don't ever let me down again. And you think, Jesus Christ. And I think in my whole career, 1 ,000 games, eventually I got sent off five times. So I always used to go up. Sorry. No, no, no. It's interesting that because I had the same thoughts on the psycho thing. So your name was the first name I ever had on the back of my shirt. What, Yenson? Goalkeeper.

34:14There's something to be said for re-releasing shirts with Yenson. But no, I always remember my first England shirt I got. And then for the team I played for, I was always number three. It was after you. And I had Pearce on the back. And you were the first player I properly idolised. and I always remember the coaches of our team, we sometimes give them a shout out, pin stars, would call me psycho clearly after you. I never questioned it. I just assumed you must be some sort of lunatic. But by the sounds of it, the discipline record wasn't marrying up with that nickname. It was just a branding thing at the time.

34:50And Cluffy, well, to be fair, I wasn't daft to start with, but Cluffy really put that in. The team's more important than personal ego and whatever. So he used to come out and go up to the Trent end or if we were away, the away supporters. I never used to warm up on the pitch before games by the time I got Forrest. It's a great story, listen to this. I'm playing for Coventry and there's a load of experienced players in the dressing room. I've got Bob Latchford, Peter Barnes, Cyril Regis, Kenny Hibbett sat in the dressing room and all these. And I'm just a kid. I'm an electrician, you know what I mean, amongst them.

35:26And you think, wow, look at all these faces. we all used to go out to warm up apart from Kenny Hibbert. Kenny always used to stay in the dressing room, never warmed up outside. And it took me about a month to get my courage up. I said, Ken, do you mind if I asked you a question? He said, yeah, of course. Why don't you go and warm up outside? And he gave me the best answer I've ever heard. He went, I get paid hour and a half, I ain't doing any more. Honestly. And I thought, you know what? That stuck with me. I thought if it's good enough for Ken, and he's been a footballer, he was in his mid-30s then.

36:01So by the time I got to Forest, I always used to warm up inside and then it was almost like a boxer when you go out. You go out once, you go in the ring and you're ready for action. And I used to go up to the home end and pump fist and all that game. But there was always a coldness to what I did, you know what I mean? Never get yourself sent off. You go up to the rules, you don't go over it. and I was saved on occasion because I was good with the referees. I used to talk to them and they looked at me and thought, you know what, there's a level of honesty about him. I know where I stand with PSE, blah, blah, blah.

36:36And, oh, what was his name? He was the Harrow school teacher. David Ellery looked after me brilliantly. Blackburn at home, I'd been booked already, 10 minutes to go, I've cleaned something out, I thought I'm off. You know what I mean? It's just a late tackle, got it wrong. He walked over to me, done brilliant. he went we've got 10 minutes to go I think you can keep out of trouble I went thank you very much he went no problem and that was it but you've earned that

37:03Chris Stark: because you say that I don't know whether you earned it or not Siddy but it was nice as we're walking off the pitch I went up to him and said listen thank you very much you didn't have to do that I do appreciate it so with your tackles for instance like if you go like someone like you're playing a part I don't know I'm going to ask you who was probably the toughest you come up against but would there be it's a reducer really Are you thinking I'm going to take him out here? Yeah, I think you do. You try to do it fairly, you know what I mean? Try and get the ball as well. Yeah, and you try to intimidate, you know, words.

37:34Ball's up in the air, they're going up to head it and you're shouting. I mean, Nobby Solano, whenever I see Nobby Solano, if I'm doing some hospitality work at Newcastle or anything, I know he's behind me because he shouts, Piersy! Because that's what I used to do on the training pitch. You know when the ball's up in the air and you think, he's coming through me and it used to be, yes, I used to shout like that. You know what I mean?

37:59Chris Stark: I've got a towel check already. Exactly. You know that one. Oh, Jesus, no, no. You know what I mean? And, yeah, so Nobby was funny. He always shouts that. Whenever he sees me, he shouts that at me now. You know, he finds it quite amusing. And I remember when I was playing in my last year at Manchester City, Ali Benabia, midfield player, one of the best I've ever played. I've got to say, Crouchy, brilliant, brilliant player. Tough as teak as well, incredible. We played Norwich and we lost a player, someone got sent off, Danny Teo or someone like that and we beat them 2-0 and we were magnificent.

38:40It was Kevin Keegan's, God rest him. It was his team, you know what I mean? And we really played well and I tackled one of the Norwich players and then we sort of stood on his throat and tried to lift him up while we stood on his throat, you know. The Norwich fans were all singing, animal, animal, you know what I mean. And we walked in the dressing room afterwards and Ali come over to me and said, what were they saying to you? He didn't understand, you know. And I went, oh, they were just calling me an animal. And he didn't realise what animal was. And then it dropped and you see his face, he went, animali.

39:18and I went yeah and he he was uncontrollably laughing honestly he couldn't get but what a player my god what a man and what a player he was unbelievable

39:31Chris Stark: so you've got obviously I asked you about England and stuff you know just think about players who are synonymous with England and what you've kind of achieved and been through in those years I think obviously with 1990 and then 96 as well I mean how did you enjoy your time and you got to talk through some of the best moments in an English shirt. Yeah, I mean, listen, Pride, I was always, I've always been proud to be English anyway before I even got an international call-up, Pete, you know what I mean? And what it should mean for anybody to represent their country. And when I say that, I'm not just talking about English players as well.

40:04When I managed Man City, I used to encourage some of our players that were Irish or whatever, wanted to pull out of international get-togethers. I said, I'm not doing your dirty work for you. It should be proud to go and represent your club, you know? You know, you see managers that manage at international level, they become club managers, they stop their players or put pressure on them. I've never subscribed to that. You know, you should be proud and you should encourage. And for me to actually, listen, I think it was 87, I've ended up getting an international call-up. Kenny Samson needed an ankle operation one summer.

40:38And the two games coming up, Brazil at Wembley, 100 ,000 Scotland away at Hamden. and you think, geez, oh, three years earlier, I'm an electrician, you know. I used to work at Wembley Stadium in the bars when I was a kid at school. So it was – and worked in the borough. So it was almost a homecoming almost. And we're playing Brazil and you think, geez, oh, and you walk out and you think, am I good enough, that imposter syndrome scenario. And we're in the tunnel and there we are, 11 English players. And at the head of that is Brian Robson. I mean, he's like an icon in my eyes, you know. I mean, as a captain and everything.

41:15And across the tunnel is 11 Brazilians. And we're waiting to walk up the old Wembley tunnel. And I'm thinking to myself, you know what? I'm the only electrician in this tunnel. I mean, it was quite worrying at the time. Listen, just such a massive honour. And I was really fortunate in some ways. My era as an international footballer run alongside Paul Gascoigne, one of the greatest players that we've ever had. Gary Lineker's goals were in that team and that squad certainly for the 91 and the two tournaments we had are always really well remembered by the England fans 1990 was almost a pre-runner to the Premier League I think musicians sort of ended up falling in love with football a little bit where it's really uncalled there was a lot of crowd trouble in the 80s and everything and then all of a sudden Italy 90 happened and everyone sort of fell in love with it and it was quite cool to have a football team to support.

42:17So that was good. And 96 was, you know, listen, we look back and there's a little bit people think it was better than it actually was, but there was the music of Oasis at the time. There was, you know, Wembley and the country just grew and we'd never had a major tournament on our shores since 66. So there was always this, will it work, will it won't, will there be crowd trouble? And it just, it was just brilliant. there's only two tournaments

42:43Chris Stark: that we call this is the Chumba one bar we're in here and the 1990 I was nine years old that was that cemented my love for football Italian 90 and 96 just was to a new level you know I think I'd have been what 15 and everything about football and everything about what it was what we represented and I just the tournament as a whole but England's performance is in it and I think we resonated I think with the squad and everyone did as a country didn't we it brought people together that was my first tournament really my first one broke through and it's those little memories for me you know I didn't live my parents didn't live too far away from Wembley I will never forget being out in their little garden and the red arrows just going over the top where it went over the stadium and for me all my memories of that tournament were incredible yeah so I don't know if I'm looking back on it differently I actually truly think it was the feel good factor wasn't there that whole summer I remember it just being like an old school it was hot it was like you know the nights were when got light you know standing to like nine, half, nine, ten there must have been a feeling where or when was the feeling when he was like we could go all the way here like there's a great chance we could go and win this because for me it was when it was when they beat the Netherlands Holland after that it was like wow what a result that was yeah that was that was the turning point where we thought hang on we got something special here we had in our team.

44:10When I look at our team, Incy was playing in Italy and he was on outstanding form. Gazza was brilliant. Shearer found form. You know, him and Teddy were brilliant. What a combination between them. And you've got Tony Adams, a colossus of a man inside, having injections in his knee before every game. And, well, you know, Rodders is like anyway, you know what I mean? Just a natural born leader at the age of two. You saw that in the anthems though. Yeah. You know, for me, one of the most iconic images of that tournament is epitomised by yourself really but in several occasions throughout that tournament but when they scan across and they're doing the anthem you're doing the anthem it's proper

44:50Chris Stark: but there's one isn't there where the man he goes out of sync isn't it the other one leads it yeah he does he just goes alright you lot carry on and you can hear you lot singing brilliant I think we'd be lucky to actually go out and represent your country you know I probably get remembered as much of what I've done for my country or associated with, more so than any club. So I think when I go around the country, you know, you bump into people and they remember those tournaments, like you're saying, and it takes them back as well, which is really nice, I think, you know. We have to talk about the penalties.

45:23Chris Stark: I mean, when you obviously missed the pen, how, I mean, how did it, because I always remember David Batty talking about missing the penalty once and he was like, that's football. Did you feel like that or did it plague you for a while? Still is, mate. Really? Yeah. I don't take my profession lightly, to be honest with you. I put too much into it. I was too professional. Even as a non-league player, I was professional. And it hurt too much to get beat or play badly. So for me to turn around and say, it's only a penalty you score or miss, that was definitely not the case with me. It's an interesting one.

46:01I put my name forward to take a penalty. It was no exact science in those days. You know what I mean? as it is now. And... But you're a penalty taker, weren't you? Exactly. So there's no way I'm staying on the halfway line and letting someone go up to take a penalty that isn't a penalty taker. So we take the penalty, you miss, your world crashes down around you. Bear in mind, England on foreign soil have never been to a semi-final. It was unique. So we come into the dressing room afterwards and I always try in my life to try and whenever you have a bad experience in your life, look deep enough and there's some good and some great learnings to come out of it.

46:39And for me, and I didn't realise at the time, but for me it was the experience I had directly after the game. Went into the dressing room, FIFA come in and picked two players out from each team to do a drugs test, me and Schiltz. So we walked down the corridor, went into a room. The room was probably this size. Two German players sat there, me and Schiltz sat there. Couldn't leave the room until you'd done a urine sample. Schiltz was playing in goal, so he was fluid in. He had a quick wee after five minutes and went. So for two hours, two German players sat there and I sat here. None of us said a word.

47:14They sat there, just won a World Cup semi-final, by the way, and never said a word to each other. I lost, I'd missed a penalty, and I'm crushed. And we sat there and in the end we've ended up sort of giving the aura ensemble and going. But it stuck with me. For two hours, I ain't said a word in success. and I thought humility and success. When I look back and thought, that's how you conduct yourself in success. So six years later, when I score a penalty against Spain, everyone celebrates, jumps on Dave, I go straight at the person who's missed because of the experience I had six years earlier.

47:51The lowest ebb in my football career and still is, it can teach me a lesson that you're prepared to, I'm going to get something good out of this. It's going to teach me a lesson. It was incredible. and the following year I just wanted to go back to Forest and start playing again the following season I think I scored 16 goals no penalties which I don't think I'm not sure any defender's done that since then that's incredible Tony I'm not sure I did that and I was playing centre forward I come close to it as Jack Jensen but I was only one so it was one of those everywhere I went I got dogs abuse as you can imagine and I thought okay I'll show you you know know what I mean so it just stimulated me to really come out and say right you know we went to Old Trafford away and I had a free kick in about 35 yards we won 1-0 and you know the Stratford end of seeing Stuart Pearce is a German the ball it's the back of their net I went yeah who's a German you know it's just nice you know but you've got you've got to find something in you that that drives you all the time in football and in life in many ways and obviously then we fast forward

48:58Chris Stark: to Euro 96 in that moment right where you I mean was there relief of the previous penalty you missed you know does it all come out or is it just the emotion of scoring that penalty in that moment and also just sorry just on that Crouchy as well were you pleased to have the opportunity to have did you know you wanted a penalty that's what I've always wanted to ask you and also another question is there an element of doubt obviously there must be has to be it's interesting behind every 10 seconds of spotlight in the media there's normally a story behind that that people don't know about and my story was Terry Venables takes over in 1994 I think it was as the New England manager I was the England captain at the time and I'm 33 years old I think I was and Terry rings me up his first phone call and said Graham Lassau's going to be the left back and the phone goes quiet and he wants me to retire from international football.

50:00And I said, boy, if you think I'm good enough, I'll fight for my place. He went, oh, yeah, yeah, I knew you'd say that. And I'm sat there thinking, yeah, I bet you did. You know what I mean? So for a year and a half, I was a bit part player and I hardly played from being the captain of the team to hardly playing, sat in the stand, come on on occasion. I get on brilliantly with Graham, you know what I mean? And I like to think if he was sat here, he would say, yeah, he supported me even though he was out the team he supported me and ground broke his ankle in november 95 playing for blackburn and i got back in the team on the back of that so i always look back and see that penalty and think reminds me of that unselfish year and a half i had i could have walked away most players you know and i know if you ain't gonna play me i ain't gonna come in no no chance that's why i admire the players that that keep at it beckham when he weren't playing or whatever and so when I step up and see that that penalty it reminds me of the year and a half of sacrifice that you have to do to be a team player in the whole scenario but I've got to say when I knew I've got to put my name forward when it goes to penalties otherwise Terry would probably think well with his history ain't gonna want to take a penalty so I went straight up to him I said Terry I'll take the third penalty he went are you sure I went, oh, it was until you said that.

51:23And I've gone a bit milky, you know what I mean? You know? So that was it. I've just, I've told him what penalty I was taking because I could not leave it a chance.

51:31Chris Stark: Is this before the game? So is this the start of the tournament? This is just at the end? Bang, when we go to penalties against Spain, I get to the halfway line and literally when he's pulling bits of paper out and saying, who's volunteering? We got Shearer, a penalty taker. Who else? You know what I mean? So I get to him and say that. and then you're doing that walk from the halfway line that seems an eternity. And you know what? I've taken a fair few penalties in my career, but the nerves that were coming from the terraces that day were unbelievable. Listen, I've never ever took a penalty and thought I'm supremely confident here.

52:10You always got that seed of doubt. I always did anyway. And doing that walk, you could fill the terraces almost, without the words being sung it was whatever happens don't let him miss we're happy to go out with anyone else missing but if he misses we can't have that and we can't handle it and when the ball hit the back of the net jesus christ where the emotion come of god only knows just relief really i think relief but in those moments just breaking those down there's that second where you sort of stand and your face almost contorts and twists and it's like you're staring at the crowd was the way I saw it and then and then you let out this sort of

52:52Chris Stark: did a word come out or or was there or is it just a noise I think I shouted at the crowd come on you begun with B you know what I mean it was just drive us over the line sort of mentality yeah it was listen I knew I'd made my mind up before the tournament this is going to be my last tournament because I thought I've done well enough to hang around. We knew Terry was leaving in 96 after the tournament. New manager probably won't fancy me, probably. So I thought I'll pack in. So any kick of the ball could have been my last kick in an England shirt and what that meant to me, you know. But listen, sometimes you have a good day, sometimes you don't.

53:37Yeah, but it's what it means. And it's like, I know you talk about that redemption of sort of that year and a half after the original penalty miss and then what you'd done in kind of, you know, working with Graham in the lead up to that tournament. But you, in those two penalties, are one of those great sort of story arcs in sport. And, you know, you obviously get asked about it a lot and I'm sure I have to describe it. Do you ever just lie there at night and sort of relive it all? privately you know what I don't have any memorabilia of football in my house whatsoever nothing I just I've got this mental block about it it's looking back not forward but I've got one picture in the office and that's it's a picture of me bent down it just shows the top of my head a name on my shirt and I've got two hands and just putting the ball down on the penalty spot that day because I think it's all of us you know what I mean life doesn't go in a linear upward and it's when you have those bumps in life how do you react you know what I mean do you give yourself to the group or do you save some for yourself or do you go under and that is the mark of that in of individuals for me in life in any walk of life not just the profession we're in we're lucky enough that probably we've had eyes of the public on us and they share our journey and support us through thick and thin in many ways with our club but it's when you have those bumps and you're away from the spotlight, how do you react to them and come again, you know?

55:12So it's more about stepping up and putting the ball down than it is about celebrating the goal. It's the fact you stood up to go do it for you. That means more. I think so.

55:21Chris Stark: I think there's so many lessons in that one moment, right? And I think there's so many, like, because everyone gets knocked down in life. Everyone has bad things that happen to you and how do you react to it, right? And I think so many people would have run away from doing the same thing again in the same moment in a massive tournament when you've done so well, I feel it's just took so much bollocks to stand up and take it on the penalty. And I think that's why it resonates with the nation so much. And that moment, because that moment of you shouting kind of was everyone shouting at the same time.

55:54Chris Stark: And it was the fact that we had that hurt and overcome that. And the fact that you've got a picture of you bending down to the ball on the spot is an incredible thing. And nowadays, I'll go and coach in October. where I'm going to Croatia to just work with some kids at a sort of camp and just do some coaching. And the parents come up to me and said, I showed him on YouTube that picture of that penalty and the one you missed as well. And my son, a couple of Sundays ago, missed a penalty. And it's nice to turn around to be that role model for something that's unsuccessful as well as successful. We can always, we all want to be Messi.

56:31We all want to be Ronaldo. though but the bottom line is the rest of us are ugly ducklings that have to find our way somehow but then you also step up against germany yeah yeah that was which a lot of people don't really sort of i mean that's again that's because that was easier for me i let me go back to the after the spain one we go back to the hotel after the spain victory we got in four days time we got a semi-final against West Germany. Terry says, we got tomorrow off, got Sunday off. So I'm all over the sounds and New Musical Express to see what gigs are going on, right? Sex Pistols have reformed after 30 years and playing in Finsbury Park.

57:11So I'm thinking, brilliant. So I go to Terry and say, can you do what you want tomorrow? He said, yeah, whatever you want. During the tournament, Sex Pistols are playing. Yeah, day after the Spain game. So I say to Terry, it's all right to go to a concert. But, you know, he said, yeah, fine. He said, just take a couple of members of staff just to make sure you're all right. I said, okay, fine. I'll go and see Gareth. Gareth ain't a music person, but he ain't going home either. And we got on brilliantly from day one. We shared the same, in some ways, the same view of representing your country, the same view of team play, that type of thing.

57:45I said, you fancy coming to a concert? He went, yeah, all right. He said, yeah. So we agreed to come before I told him it was a sex pistol, you know what I mean? So the pair of us have gone, we've gone backstage, bumped into sort of John and Steve and the boys, and they said, would you introduce the band on stage? So, like, this is utopia for me. I've scored from the country on Saturday, and I'm watching the Sex Pistols, who I revere, you know what I mean, on the Sunday. And they've talked us into it. The Gates have been talked into wearing a Sex Pistols T-shirt, like. So we're on stage introducing the Pistols.

58:19I'm thinking, this is just brilliant. I don't think the Gates have ever been to a concert since. I mean, honestly, it might have been Taylor Swift or somebody, you know what I mean? The introduction was magnificent, you know, but it's brilliant. And then four days later, we got to West Germany. And I'm thinking, if this goes to penalties, how do I play it? And I'm thinking the Germans will be so thorough, they'd have watched a whole penalty shootout from the England players four days before. So I'm thinking to myself, I've got the opportunity, taking third to see Shearer and Teddy, I think, go before me.

58:56Are they going to go the same way? And what way would a goalie go? Will he look at what he's seen and go the same way, thinking, well, they scored, all the players have scored, they'll do a confidence one and go the same way again. So I say to Alan Shearer before the game, I said, if we go to penalties, which way are you taking it? He went, I'm not telling you. I'm thinking, thanks, mate. You know what I mean? So he won't tell me, which is fine. so I'm watching so I see two penalties before me the German goalie goes the same way as if he had watched and said I'm going the same way one went the same way one didn't but he still went the same way and I thought you know what all I've got to do is change sides and I'll score and I was right he went the same way as he'd scored the three times before he'd done his prep some pop there

59:43Chris Stark: but obviously you know as you say Gareth South you're a good mate of yours what do you say to him after his miss How was he? I think you share your experience of the two Germans. You share your experience. There's a massive learning here for us. And what we did years later, where we both learned from it was when I become an under-21 manager in 2007, we practiced penalties after every training session, Peter. And when I say after every one, I mean everyone. Two years out from a major tournament, when I got those kids through the door to work with me, they practiced a penalty we recorded it we filmed everyone we had all the stats from every penalty they took back at their clubs the analysis people recorded the last 10 years of world penalty shootouts and fed back to me in a document saying the most important strikers are more successful than the midfield players than the defenders right footers are more successful carved the goal up into portions of eight to say where successful penalties were, right footers, left footers, you name it, everything.

1:00:55When the opposition are taking, you don't have to stand on the halfway line alongside them. You can actually stand at the front of the circle and make the opposition walk past you and walk back the mental stress that that will put through them. The depth that we went in, Joe Hart faced 350 penalties in my care. His safe ratio is 17%. Milner was our best penalty taker, 83 % scoring ratio. So I knew everything. So when we ended up years later with the 21s and got in a penalty shootout... And I walked, and bear in mind, we fed back to the players when we got to the tournament. We said, practice your best penalty.

1:01:32We told them, sat them all down individually and said, statistically, these are all your best penalties, this area or goal, we'll leave it with you. You make your own mind up where you want to take. It's our job, having done this study for two years, to show you. because the end game for me was I stood up and took a penalty. Yes, I was a penalty taker thing, but no one knew whether I was the best penalty taker in this team, in the best five. No one knew. When Batty missed, Batty never had a penalty before. When Incy missed, never had a penalty before. When the gate missed, never taken a penalty.

1:02:04Why would you put someone up and take a penalty? So for me, I need to make penalty taking an exact science. so we went to ended up going to a penalty shootout with the under 21s I walked on the pitch the stats that we had the most important penalty is the first one the second most important penalty is the fourth penalty so that was our taking order Milner first Noble fourth and then Joe Hart took the second penalty because statistically he was one of our best penalty takers so all of a sudden I've done the exact science we win a penalty shootout it's not option it's not like me coming up I'll take the third one you're taking first you're second you're third you're fourth you're fifth you're sixth seventh eighth ninth tenth eleventh there you go that's the order we're taking you've practised for two years go and win a penalty shootout I know I've got my best five players standing up and taking a penalty and Gareth took that with him as well on the journey so I know now whenever England well certainly with Gareth at the helm whenever England stand up to take a penalty shootout you know that the goalkeeper Super has got all the names of the opposition written down, where's their best penalty, that type of thing.

1:03:16And our best five should be taken up to take a penalty. There's a hell of a lot involved in it. Did you enjoy your managerial career when you did it? Yeah, I did. You learn on the job, Pete. It's a really tough, I was really unfortunate that I retired when I was 40 as a player coach at Manchester City. And I said to Kevin, I'm retiring now. He said, we're starting the coaching staff at Man City. We were going in the Premier League and apply from jobs from within, which was fantastic of him. He was a brilliant mentor, you know, and I think young managers need mentors like him. We miss a trick, you know, the FA losing Gareth, letting him walk out the door, and Bobby Robson.

1:03:57They should have been kept as mentors to the coaches and everything. I ended up, Kevin was brilliant. I used to, I'd done all my coaching badges when I was at Manchester. I started before, but I started doing them, pro license and whatever. Done every course I possibly could. So I went on psychology courses. I started to learn Italian when I was working with Fabio, with yourself. And I had that mentality a lot. I had to train as an electrician. I'm not going to finish a playing career and say, I know everything, I know all the answers. You know, I've got to start from day one again. So I ended up doing that.

1:04:33Kevin was brilliant with me. He said, come into the board meetings with me. at Man City, which unless you become manager, you never ever get to go in and work the dynamics of how it works in a room and watching Kevin operate within a board meeting and stuff like that. Just absolutely brilliant. Really, really was good.

1:04:52Chris Stark: Yeah, and I suppose there's probably, I mean, the attention to detail seems that you've put into everything you've done really, but the managerial side of it even more so. I mean, how important is that for managers? I think it's like this I think whenever you go for a job and sit in front of a panel you've got to say I've got this qualification that one, that one, that one I've got every qualification there is out there I've done everything I possibly I have to be as good as I possibly have if I fail now I can live with that I can live with failure it just means that I wasn't good enough to sustain a Premier League managerial career for 20, 30 years like Moisey like people were that ill that's why I respect them what would kill me is if I took a shortcut somewhere and your team get beat you know you haven't done the work and you know you haven't done the course that to give you that little edge you know that would kill me so I can always live with failure as long as I've done enough to be in that position to get there and say I think I've done everything I can but sometimes it's out of your hand surely in that you know signing or not signing the right player could be what defines your manager a real career Steve Sidwell for example I was Manchester City manager and we're looking to recruit Sid has done particularly well at Reading right I don't know whether I'm speaking out of turn here but I'm going to because you need this information on it I certainly do we've had some info from Mick McCarthy as well on this you know who said well I think it might be quite similar I think I think he's one of these footballing time wasters, likes to flutter his eyelashes at you like that as a manager.

1:06:39They think, oh, we've got City on side and you can't get anywhere near him. You know what I mean? He turns the other cheek when you come for him. Anyway, I think it was the agent said to us, me and Wicks at Man City, he said, City's available. He's got a clause in his contract, two million quid. We're thinking, yeah, we can do that. You know what I mean? So we have a chat with the player himself. The player seems quite up for coming. Well, I come up and sat down with him, didn't I? I know you did. Yeah, I'm trying to help you out a little bit here. No, no, because I'm back in my corner here as well.

1:07:10He didn't buy lunch though, did he? Oh, no, George. In fact, him, me and Wiggs are that tight. None of us did. We all sat there with just a glass of water. No, we didn't. Yeah, he come up, we had a chat. We thought, brilliant. He's just what we need, you know what I mean? Genuine player, genuine team player in the midfield, doing well for Reading. So I say to our chief exec, Alistair McIntosh, I said, send a bidding to Reading. He's got a£2 million clause. We've just got to better that and we'll get the player. So he says, all right. So little did I know he sent, the offer was£2 million and a pound.

1:07:50So one pound over it. So Reading come back to us, Reading come back to us and said, the player's not for sale. So we're there knowing full well he's got a clause in his contract, but we can't say, well, that's crap. He's got a clause in his contract because they'll know that we've talked to the player and his agent if that's the case. So we had a sort of impasse, didn't we? You ended up at Chelsea anyway. Well, the clause actually was that if a club bid more than two million quid,

1:08:20Chris Stark: I could speak to the club. Not necessarily that the fee would be agreed. It was a case of I could speak to the club. We had a good chat, didn't we? we had a grade change and then you went back to Reading but the thing is of all the bids to come back with to rub the club up the wrong way it was two million I don't know what he was thinking about doing that that's embarrassing because doesn't that then show obviously that you know about it and you've talked but there was a genuine I genuinely wanted to go to Man City you know I've been sitting and I've been listening to all the stories and stuff me growing up I think I've said it before on previous pods I used to wear my dad used to make me wear the shortest shorts playing right because it was obviously taken after you because I had big legs he was like no you've got to wear small shorts as a kid I was known as Psycho Sid as well same sort of player tackling and that so to have the chance of going up and speaking to Stuart up at Man City and that and you was talking about the new project that was going to go through because it was the new stadium wasn't it as well and it was a case of like brilliant I was on the trail on the way home going this is brilliant this is brilliant and the next thing was like the 2 million and 1 pound I was like I don't know what you're saying yeah and the club was just so John was at the time so does he speak to you at that point and go well they knew they knew what have you been yeah so my agent's gone I can't I can't believe they've just gone and done that like if anything go 2 million and whatever underground or yeah so then Redding was just like absolutely not and then they got in the fine small print and it was like no no no we could discuss it we can't agree the fee and then it was a case of then it was I was on a free transfer and then yeah it would have been it could have been the best player I've ever missed out on.

1:10:01Chris Stark: So what's happening now? What are you up to now at the moment? You're about to see one of the talk sports stuff you're doing. A lot of talk sports gear or working across other medias, PLP as well for the worldwide feeds, enjoyable. I love covering the games. I love being at the games, honestly. You know, the games drop and you think, oh, I've got whatever it may be. I don't know, Aston Villa versus Arsenal coming up in October and I get excited by going to the games. It's always something new. It's something exciting. I cover all the England games, Champions League and whatever. The leadership and motivational stuff that I really enjoy with companies are going and just to help sort of companies really, you know, and go and do a presentation because I went to – this is all part of the travelling thing.

1:10:48I was at the FA working as an under-21 manager in 2012. Trevor Brookin, my boss, come to me and said, will you go to Afghanistan and take the FA Cup and do a troop visit in Afghanistan? I thought, brilliant, that was right up my street, you know. So I said, yeah, I'd love to. So I was at Bryce Norton waiting to fly out and a commanding officer come up to me and said, would you do me a favour while you're in Afghanistan at Camp Bastion? I said, yeah, of course. He said, would you talk to a group of young soldiers about leadership if you would? I said, yeah, yeah, I'd love to. and I got on the plane, Crouchy, and I thought to myself, what the hell do I know about leadership?

1:11:26You know people think you wear an armband, oh, he's a natural leader. But how do you put that into words? And I'm thinking, Jesus, where do I start here? What do I do? And I was on the plane. It took six hours to get over to Afghanistan. And I'm on the plane and I was humming and harming. How do I start it? What do I do? You know what I mean? And I come out with the idea. I thought, well, hang on a minute. What people, who do I look up to? and why? And I thought, Brian Robson, you know, carried England in the 80s. Why do I sort of look at him and revere him? Not just for what he'd done footballing wise.

1:12:02Why? And I come up with one word, unselfish. He was one of these players, whatever he told you on a football pitch, you know what I mean? I'm going to press him. Make sure you follow me up on that. You think, right, because I know he's going to do it. And I know he's got the mentality that he's thinking, I put the group before myself i i have that impression of pop and that was my starting point what is a leader a leader is someone unselfish that gives himself to the group and it expanded from there and that was the first time i ever spoke about leadership and i thought there's no one in our profession they do q and a's and stuff like that and they brush over it but how many people actually turn up to a company and put a live presentation on and talk about a their experiences for good and for bad and tie them with the workplace as well.

1:12:50You know, I mean, what you don't want is, and I'm not knocking Steve Redgrave, but Steve Redgrave can turn up and say, I won five gold medals at five Olympics. And everyone in the crowd are thinking, God, before I even walked in this room, I felt a little bit underwhelmed. Now, all of a sudden, I'm slaughtered. I've got an Olympic champion. They almost want to say, this is when it went well. But I tell you what, I missed a penalty. It was the lowest moment of my life. how did I react to that and they've all shared those same experiences like we said before life don't go like that so I enjoy the leadership to helping people in that respect

1:13:25Chris Stark: yeah nice superb man it's really obviously great what you do and stuff like that just one thing before you go I've got to talk about David James up front brilliant masterstroke yeah the chairman comes to me nine games to go I'm Man City manager nine games to go and said Kevin's left would you take over to the end of the season. I said, yeah, all right. We're about 15th in the Premier League. We go on a really good run. And before the last game of the season, we're eighth. Top seven getting to Europe. We're at home to Middlesbrough. Middlesbrough are seventh. We've got a win to get into Europe.

1:14:04So I go home that night and I think to myself, what can I do the next day that's going to really get the crowd off their feet? I need to do something. if the game's meandering along and it's a draw if we're in front no problem we carry on with parity what am I going to do? So I come in the next day and I've had this scheme we're going to bomb everything that David James up front I'm going to put him up front you know so I come in I say to Les Chapman the kick man I say Chapman get me a one shirt with David probably from the Yat Yensen days right

1:14:40Chris Stark: Was he Yat Yensen? He was that day He didn't realise it. So I didn't tell J-Mo before the game. You know what J-Mo's like. He'll get excited and want to be up in 10 minutes. He'll want to go up front, you know. So the game starts. We got an outfield shirt. The chap has printed one out but hid it. I sat at Derek Fazzacoli, the coach. I said, I've got a brilliant idea. He said, what is it? I said, if we're chasing the game, I'm going to put J-Mo up front. We're going route one. He looked at me and went, you've had some stupid ideas. this is the most stupid I've ever heard I don't want anything to do with it right so that's that I said alright alright 35 minutes gone Hasselbank's got a free kick about 30 yards out he's unloaded one in the roof of the net we're 1-0 down we equalised in the second half the game's meandering along it's about 70 minutes I'm looking at Faz I said what do you think he's blanking me like I'm there he's like that he don't want anything to do with it crouching And this shirt is just down, hidden away.

1:15:42So no other players can see it. No one else on the bench knew. Because there's always chat. When I see this clip do the rounds, is the fact that they knew. To me, no one knew. I told the kit man chappy, he's a funny bloke. I said, don't tell anyone, especially J-Mo. He said, no problem. So as far as up and down, no one knew. Then all of a sudden, I'm on 75 minutes. I think, what have I got to lose? Chances are they'll bring a new manager in in the summer. or I'm out anyway. So I say to Nicky Weaver, get warmed up. Nicky Weaver looks at me, the goalie, and there's nothing wrong with J-Mo. We need a goal, and you're asking me to warm up.

1:16:20So just get warmed up. So he gets warmed up. J-Mo's looking at the bench and sees Nicky Weaver getting warmed up, and he's looking at me as though I'm going to rip your head off if you take me off. What are you doing? So he comes over. We call J-Mo. We take Claudio Reiner off. Nicky Weaver goes on and goes in goal. We give J-Mo the outfield shirt. but we say to him, go and play up front. Now, you would think, and this is where the plan, and I admit, Crouchy, the plan fell down slightly. You would think if you're six foot four and can leap like J-Mo could, you'd get on the diagonal and knock everything down and keep it alive in the box.

1:16:56He saw himself as a number 10. He played in the hole. He played in the hole. He tripped over it. He had probably the worst 10, 15 minutes of football you've ever seen. and Eggie Og and Southgate were the two centre-halves they were just laughing they weren't even dealing with him they weren't no it was carnage anyway he was on the pitch I would have said seven minutes when we got a penalty had absolutely nothing to do with him we got a penalty just out of the blue somewhere I can't even remember what it was a foul or a handball whatever so it's 1-1 I'll put J-Mo on seven minutes later Fowler's got the ball on the penalty spot Schwartz is in goal I'm sat there I am the smuggish man in the world Faz is there I went the new Mourinho son and he saved the penalty I got dog's abuse I got should have put

1:17:50Chris Stark: J-Mo on it fucking Robbie Fowler I didn't do my stats but if that had gone in that would have been saying what a master that's football for you it's the margins but my god you should have seen his performance up front it was woeful J-Mo's popping into the pocket he's coming to the feet I don't want it there I don't want it on time it's on the half turn it's trying to come at people oh the greatest place listen honestly it's a pleasure having you on mate honestly you know you've been such a a huge person certainly in my life and a lot of people's lives certainly in this country for all your performances and the person you are as well so yeah real pleasure having you on mate really appreciate it brilliant to be here listen I love sharing the odd story and whatever brilliant story not short of a word or an experience so it's nice football's been great to us over the years thank you so much brilliant

1:18:51Chris Stark: this next part of the podcast is supported by Paddy Power it's the well it's the big football league that we have going on at the moment obviously Chris is fucking flying he's got another two points Sid you're on two you got one point I got none again this fucking so basically standings are Chris six Sids two Pete one you've come out of the traps haven't you I really have mate you really have you feel like you're much more confident about it as well like you seem like you take a different approach to this season I don't know what it is you've got a bit more of an aura about you know confidence I just feel like I'm riding a wave at the moment it's good really good wave well you've obviously got the forfeit coming up right so that forfeit is a five minute comedy sketch comedy what would he call it you've signed me up to do stand up comedy tomorrow evening tomorrow evening as when this podcast goes out I've got to do that tomorrow evening I can't wait are you nervous about that well yeah we were just having a discussion before we started the podcast and you were like oh how are you getting on with it I was like well it's the same conversation I've said to the boys here I don't understand what people are expecting me to do because wherever you're listening right now if someone said right you've got to do five minutes stand up ask yourself what would you do in that situation I can't just stand up and do jokes you're material we don't want material to use I don't have any material to use I'm not a comedian like am I meant to pretend no one can give me an answer on this am I meant to pretend to be a comedian or am I just meant to be me I just think I think you you have to entertain for five minutes it's your five minutes doesn't matter what you do but it's a stand up comedy night well yeah it is but you know people can entertain it's in a stand up comedy club so people are going there it's a busy stand up comedy club yeah so they expect you to come out and do the whole uh well the normal punters would be yeah but you can do what you want it's your it's your five minutes so if you want to go in there and not entertain them that's fine but do I have to yeah okay maybe I'm overthinking this is it is it a bit like you know everyone's got a routine it's like you know when you go in a swimming pool and you you know you dip your toe in and you go oh it's better when you're in?

1:21:05Am I meant to be doing that sort of pattern? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:21:07Chris Stark: Start with that one. I don't understand what people want me to do with this. Oh, fucking hell. No one knows. No one understands, but that's what makes it so funny. Yeah, that's exactly right. And so we're all going to, you're going to be there as well. Oh, yeah, yeah. Certainly, yeah. I won't miss it for the world. No. Basically, Chris, you're on fire, right? Because you had Arsenal to win. I actually went for them to draw Arsenal, which was a stupid decision but I wasn't far away from that it was almost nil-nil great first half for Villa I thought yeah when none of us saw the draw come in with Liverpool Forest and then yeah Chris was the only one who saw Newcastle win at Spurs I thought they'd get a result but they didn't disappointing so yeah good start for you mate yeah before we get into the games why the football not obviously Paddy Powers I love this the ad and stuff is there anything you've seen anyone you've seen at games you think like you know Obviously, the seagull at Brighton was legendary, wasn't it?

1:22:04Chris Stark: Is there anything this weekend you've seen? Is there anything you've done as a player? I haven't... I think coming up this weekend... I mean, normally for me, we said about it during the World Cup, didn't we? I know a lot of people, it resonated with a lot of people at home, that whenever you're at home or you're watching the football or if you're at the stadium, if you nip to the toilet or if you go and make a cup of tea or if you go to the bar early just before half-time, there's always a goal. I mean I always miss a goal but it got to a point where I started to force the walk you know you go for that walk to go or you go for that little break it doesn't work then it didn't work you think the juju goes exactly it is the juju's gone so you know I do it and I'm trying I'm forcing that walk now that break to go this is not really working I'm going to see if I can nip off it is so what you're saying is it needs to be a natural walk yeah a walk you would have done anyway yeah or if I was at home and I was going to go I need to go for a loo.

1:22:59Chris Stark: Naturally, I go, I miss a goal, come back, what's the chance of that? Rather than go, go and say, yo, am I going to force a wee? Oh, yes, don't force it. Yeah. Wilder football not. Yeah, wilder football not. I saw a good one at Watford game, actually. I was in this little hospitality bit at Watford and there's a guy who comes in with a drum. So you know how sometimes you might get like a Steve Sidwell repeat crash kind of wandering through and they do a few stories and stuff like that, which is quite nice to hear. This guy just comes through with the drum and lets everyone in there have a go with the drum.

1:23:31You've got to think everyone's had a few beers by this point. So you've got adults just whacking this drum in this bit. Apparently it's become a weekly thing, which I think... You just bang his drum? Yeah, that's all you do. He puts the drum in front of you and you get to bang it, which is weirdly satisfying. Like, when else do you get to do that in the week?

1:23:48Chris Stark: I'd quite enjoy that. Same, right? Yeah. Why the football not? Yeah. I've got one for you on the weekend. Obviously I went to Chelsea and I don't know if you're aware of it, I had a rabbit called Kerry Dixon. Yeah, I know, yeah. Yeah. And, uh, I met Kerry Dixon and I've never met Kerry Dixon, right? Uh, I mean, he was a legend for me. I named him on my rabbit after him. When I saw him, I couldn't take the opportunity to not say it, telling me I thought he was a legend and he's a big influence on my career. And he had, he had no idea, but I went up to him and I said, uh, Kerry. And he was like, yeah, I said, I'm Peter.

1:24:21Chris Stark: And he recognized me thankfully. And then he goes, um, and I said, I had a rabbit called Kerry Dixon first thing I said to him and he went what he never would have thought you would have said that I swear that's what I was like I know he was on this to-do list today but I was talking to him about my rabbit I said he's a lovely rabbit I named him after you see I love that and yeah why the football not why the football not especially if you can get away with naming your pet after your favourite footballer but without maybe your other half knowing do you know what I mean if it might put them off the idea of a name when you start naming your kids or your animals after I think Kerry's a lovely name nice it's a great name for a rabbit also why am I finding the idea of you having a pet rabbit kind of funny as well was it one of those big thumper ones no do you know what he was aggressive though a bit like Kerry himself

1:25:12Chris Stark: he wasn't aggressive rabbit my little my sister had one called Jimbo and he just kept attacking him I just separate them did you have one of them big outdoor hutches yeah like an outdoor you know just like just outside the kitchen there Were they bigger in the 90s? I don't know if I hear so much. I don't think, yeah, I totally agree with you. Everyone had one of, like a flopsy or someone, didn't they? My neighbour. Everyone had a flopsy. Neighbour had one of them. I just don't know if you've seen them so much anymore. Yeah, shame. Yeah. All right. All right, we'll get into it. Should we get into it?

1:25:42Chris Stark: Quite a football night. We'll get into the Paddy Power's big weekend fixture. It's Arsenal versus Chelsea. Great game. Great game. Good. Good. two teams looking good as well, right? Chelsea, the front three, we were at the game, Chris. The front three, Jao Pedro, for me, I love watching him play football. He's a player that enjoys his football, right? It just looks like he's enjoying his football. I was with someone before the game on Sunday, on the weekend, and someone said to me, Jao Pedro will score more goals in Haaland this season, right? And I laughed, okay? But now, I'm actually thinking that could be a great shout I've been thinking about this I've been thinking about it since the first game I watched them play it's Fulham I think he'll get goals he's a big call but are we willing as a podcast to take on other people and say that we'll back João Pedro are you for it look he was at Watford so we're going to put out a physical statement Chelsea's new number nine backed by Chelsea backed by Chelsea Chelsea's number nine well I just think he'll score goals I don't know Harland is a machine yeah that's why it's a great it's a good debate it's a topic of discussion it's a good thought isn't it but then equally when you three were watching the game I mean when you and he missed it by the way didn't he he did he did he did he did he did he did he did he put it wide he scored he'll score goals but when you three were watching the game and you have that whole situation where you have Cole Palmu didn't go they look like they're on it Jal didn't go no Rodgers just brand new side yeah interesting really Neto looks sharp creative I mean they've got some creative players in that team yeah it's a tricky one to predict this this is yeah I still worry about them defensively with clean sheets but now they've got the keeper in as well we've got a good reception but Arsenal still look like again the 1-0 win up at Villa they still look like they just churn I thought that first half of the Villa game felt like, I don't know if it's just because it was a Monday night, felt like a cup game almost, like under the lights sort of.

1:27:53Also, I wasn't aware of the building work happening at Villa Park. Oh, yeah. So you've got this whole set. But then you've got what they look like. They've got the actual builders manning the stand. It looked like the village people. Yeah, it did. Yeah, it did.

1:28:08Chris Stark: It did. The village people behind the goal. The Villa people. The Villa people. they're going to be if they're going to be there all season if they're going to be there all season they have to listen to this right please give us a YMCA come on let's just give us give us a YMCA someone take a picture of it if you're good if you're there with a hard hat and you're listening to this now and you've got your high bids on give us get all in a line give us one picture of a YMCA at the Villa at the new Villa stand that'll be going down in history podcast exclusive who's surely on the way with that one.

1:28:45Chris Stark: The Villa people. The Villa people. In the stand there. And my other dream for them is I just want to see one of the balls that goes into the stand to get headed by a hard hat. I just want to see what it does. It's a bit like those people say, can't condone it, but the guys that kick footballs up on the wind turbines just to try and... Pick them out. And then one of them goes, it's just like, boom. Yeah, decent. Yeah, can't condone it. Can't condone it. But I'd love to see it. I would love to see one of the Villa people. Yeah, definitely. But also, because there was one early on in the match where he went around and he just got it and he was on the camera for ages and I thought, he's got to boot that back.

1:29:20Chris Stark: No, I think they've been told. I thought he was looking round for like, he must have wanted to boot it. I just assumed he was going to boot that as hard as he could shut it onto the pitch. It smacks of they've been sat down and given a health and safety. You can have fun in Stan, but you're going to be disciplined. It's, this is the protocol. YMCA is not going to cause too much trouble, knows it and we need a fan just to record it or something I don't want to get turfed out you might be thinking this is a good gig I've got here for the whole season just man in the stand he's on that season ticket so what we are we after a video at any time from that stand or are you talking in the game do you just want one of them to bang out ideally like four in a row the camera will go to them it will go to them ideally I'd like four of them in a row doing you know one's a Y one's an M the C in and that ideally if one of them could wear you know a native a native headband

1:30:23Chris Stark: potentially if one did have a tash on him that would be amazing I've not I've not heard anyone say this I don't know if someone's mentioned the village people I don't know but if this is starting here if this is something that we've sort of I think this has started here well we need to embrace this because they've just got put the music in the stadium and maybe before the game. Before the game. Even if you get the fucking, it's the entertainment at the end of the day, right? You can still have your hard hat on. You can be high-vis. It can all be health and safety. Yeah. You can still have fun with it.

1:30:52Chris Stark: You can even have fun by being disciplined. Yeah. And if you are one of the, but if you're one of the Villa people listening to this and like, and they're telling you you can't do this, just bang it out. There's nothing. You'll be a legend forever. Certainly on this podcast. They can't do anything about it. What are they going to do? Fucking hell. And then everyone's going to love it. if you get sacked they'll be fucking up raw certainly from this podcast we'll back you all the way okay alright there's the Villa people Arsenal are unbeaten Jesus their last 11 meetings with Chelsea believe it or not this makes Arsenal unsurprisingly heavily favourites at 7-10 draw 13-5 Chelsea to win 15-4 might be a bit of value in that could be an upset here Chelsea this is so this is so hard because that Villa game, I really thought, I thought Villa broke them down brilliantly in the first half.

1:31:48Chris Stark: Yeah. The only problem is here, I think that defensively Chelsea will concede. I love the Martinez sign and I think it's a brilliant sign. I agree. How you get a World Cup winning dominant leader for seven mil in this climate. I think that's unreal. It's a great sign, isn't it? Yeah. It'll be a work in progress though, like you say. It won't happen automatically, but... I think they'll concede goals. Yeah. I mean, we were Brighton at times, you know, scored three, didn't they? It was, I think they'll concede goals, but I think there will be goals. Be interesting to see. I don't know if I want to go first.

1:32:23Chris Stark: I'm skirting around a 2-2 draw or a 3-1 win. They're my two. 3-1 to Arsenal? Yeah. I'm going to go 2-2. I'm going to put a cat amongst pigeons. Oh, I love it when he says that. And I'm going to go for a 3-2 Chelsea win. I think they announced themselves. I think they announced themselves. That's bonus points. As a title contenders. And I think they, and I also get a bonus point if I'm for the five goals. I've got to be consistent in my game at the moment. Trust the process a little bit. So I'm going to, I'm going to be, I'm back in Christianry here. 2-1 Arsenal. It's boring. I don't like it. You can see that a mile away.

1:33:04Chris Stark: That's what it is, isn't it? It is. That's what it is. I'm being, I think at the moment, I'm being too outlandish. It's early on in the season, I'm going for things. He's on his Stony Beach, isn't he? He's got flip-flop socks on Stony Beach. 2-1. No one's particularly enjoying it, but it's... We're getting through it. It still counts. Could be done. All right, we've got Paddy's boost. Each pig a leg of the Crouchpot bet builder. The odds on that bet builder are boosted by 20 % put on the specials section of the website, or at. Sid, do you want to go score any time first here? Oh, a co-sacker please for me.

1:33:42Chris Stark: He's in good form. Okay, no problem. Player to be carded, I'll go for Levi Colwell. Okay, I'm going to go player to have two plus shots on target, Cole Palmer. Odds are correct at time recording. Please gamble responsibly. Okay, we've got a game on the Saturday as well. Three o 'clock kickoff this one. Nottingham Forest versus Tottenham Hotspur. Forest were good against Liverpool. I know, and I was burnt by Spurs. I thought they would come out fighting at Newcastle and you know I thought it was better but it wasn't it wasn't ideal no no but you've got to feel like it's got to just turn for them it can't take last season and keep going into this season I think that's I think that's what's going to happen here but Forrest at home I mean they will create they'll create some siege mentality they've got a few injury concerns as well Gordon you boys go who are the defensive I think some of the players that Forrest could be without Savona Sangari Williams Ryan Yates I still think I think Forrest get this job done and I think they get it done 2-0 Forrest get the job done yeah 2-0 well I'm going to go 2-1 Tottenham Tottenham yeah I'll go 1-1 draw this is going to be I'm horny that was horny you even said it in a horny manner these are big points this weekend we just don't know where we're going big we don't know where this is what's going to make this so exciting this league this year on a Sunday two o 'clock kick-off at the Hill Dickinson we've got Everton versus Manchester United solid start from Everton yeah I haven't seen enough of them actually for the opening bits what did you make of United though I mean Bruno Fernandes was sensational wasn't he yeah they needed that kick up the backside didn't they to get going against Ipswich see Telemans with the penalty yeah you see that he's won that hmm was an odd one was he trying to put him off or like was he just so engrossed in the game I think he's just captured by it all yeah like when you're at home yeah kind of kicking every ball it's like one of those isn't it yeah I think with Kunio and Buenoye Rashford Bruno Fernandes they've got players that can hurt United haven't they but I think Everton are solid see at the time recording this it's transfer deadline day should have celebrated with a dildo in the year shouldn't we we always forget that you forget that I assume we haven't got one lying around yeah you're not just check chenikwa's box you're never sure there could be one that's the worst thing there could be one knocking about but yeah is the is the Grealish loan thing happening is that I think we've got to try and get him yeah they're trying to get him yeah is it on loan is it yeah It'd be good to see him back playing.

1:36:34Chris Stark: I like Grealish playing football. You know someone who's enjoying himself, when he's enjoying himself playing football. I want to see it. Yeah. Okay, Chris, I don't know if you want to go first. I feel like I've done 2-1 on the other two, so I'm tempted to follow it through and just kind of... Full missionary. Full Christianry this way. I've got enough stress on with the comedy thing, so I'll outsource this to a bunch of 2-1s. Well, yeah, I will go United then, yeah. United 2-1. Yeah. I will go with 1-1 I'm going to go for 3-1 Manchester United that's a big shout out okay alright well that was that was Stuart Pearce loved having him on it's almost like he gave us one of his motivational speeches that he does just a great guy isn't he I mean you know like someone that just he's genuine there's no grey areas he's black or white he's got good values, good morals.

1:37:31Chris Stark: I love the way he speaks about England as well. Yeah. I love that. And I loved when you were asking him about the, like really breaking down that penalty, the sort of redemption penalty. And the detail he went into when he was talking about that really reminded me of, you know, that Danny Dyer clip that we've got when Danny Dyer was on. That was brilliant. And it was just epic. We put it, there's some music and I see that doing the rounds quite often. I think that little bit of what you said there we should work a little bit of magic on as well um Redis fuck off to the Maldives if you can that's it it's great isn't it I think there was a couple of nuggets from Stuart there especially around that penalty that I think maybe we could maybe put together for a little bit of music good idea um well talking of obviously penalties I might take him with me to Zanti um because the Zanti goalkeeper has called me out big time right and I think things are in place we're trying to get us out there as a podcast I don't know if we can do it it's going to be difficult to do this short notice really I don't know when does Xante season finish it's so annoying because I felt like do you remember there was a time we wanted to do something with Crufts and we only realised we wanted to do this sort of the weekend after Crufts I kind of feel we've done this with the Xante goalkeeper where it's we should follow up on Crufts as well could we just note that one down please just sorry get ahead on Crufts yeah only because we were going to get a dog just a normal dog and see how funny it would be just to one of our dogs and then there was another idea about one of us dressing up as a dog and being entered into Crufts but I can't quite remember what the context was these are great forfeits so I reckon can we just pencil down either dressing up as a dog for Crufts but with the full coverage you know where it comes up with a name and you get warts out this is phenomenal I love it that's the forfeit for this league has to be what an early show has to be I love it already I mean let us know if you don't like it but fuck me they've got to allow it first we absolutely don't I just think we've been cut touch across before they really wanted to work with us we couldn't make it work so Zanti goalkeeper I don't know if we put him on ice if it's coming towards the end of the season and we start early doors you know end of season sort of thing to Zanti well like like the minute the season finishes, we're in Zante.

1:39:56Chris Stark: We fuck off to Zante. Like, take him on then. In and out. End of season tour. This is what I mean, like an end of season thing out there. Like, it might make more sense as long as we do it. Yeah. Oh, we have to do it. Yeah, well, I'm not, I'm not getting spoken to like that by him. Because I think as well, I actually think as well, he's done that knowing that you like, like he's got the last word because the season's finished and it's one of them ones where, you know, like if there's a bit of a push and shove match and you're like, come on in, knowing that there's like 50 people between you. Yeah.

1:40:25Chris Stark: He's out with you, knowing that the season's coming too close. No, no. I'm going out to his backyard as well. I'm going out there. Love it. We'll bring it home. We'll be there as well. Don't worry. We'll bring it home. What a moment. We'll be on the strip. Well, listen, you know, we can have a tear up, can't we? We'll be a crouch rest style. We'll get the club next door or something like that. Do a party either way. Do something like that. Listen, we'll put a package together. It makes it all vary by Thomas Cook.

1:40:58I did some cracking stuff on Jet 2 holidays. I did some cracking stuff with Tooie recently, actually. There you go.

1:41:03Chris Stark: Well, there you go, mate. Not a problem. Not a problem. We'll put the package together. We'll get it sent out to you. It's a little bit of a twist on football escapes.

1:41:17Chris Stark: All right, well, listen, it's all to come. Shaniqua's box, loads of stuff to come up So yeah, stay tuned. You're not going to want to miss this season, really. We'll catch you next time.

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