That England v Croatia Episode: Rio Ferdinand on Harry Kane & HONEST thoughts on Trent! I Ep. 408

0:06Chris Stark: Hello and welcome to that Peter Crouch podcast. Tom Fordyce, the man himself, Stephen Stidwell. How are we? How are we? Good. We had an intense game of paddle, didn't we, this morning? Whoa, I can't really move. I think intense is underused there. It was fully engaged. We were full on, wasn't it? Yeah. I mean, look, you boys know, in my previous career, I spend a lot of time covering tennis you know I was there at Wimbledon when Federer played Nadal saw Andy Murray was this morning as good as that? let's not be silly of course it wasn't those boys are professional but was it far off? I don't think it was I think competitive wise it was yeah we gave as good as them obviously the talent wasn't quite there I think the last time I see parts of you today losing was when we played at Stoke together literally really?

0:55yeah I was angry there

0:57Chris Stark: you said you know make sure you get it he's got a different side to him i hope he did get it as well a different side that was good got a different side to you don't know listen no one will be nice as you like off the field the minute you cross that paddle line no one goes for a friendly game of paddle you shouldn't do true uh boys how are we feeling about the tournament because we are quite a long way in now to the uh the first week and the first round of games the thing that I'm finding watching these games, Sid, is how open they all are. I always think that the first group game is going to be cagey because no one wants to lose.

1:34Something seems to be happening this time around where it's almost like everyone is going to be cagey when it gets to the third game and they know what the connotations and what they need. Everyone at this point seems to be going, I want to start with a win. Was there been 1-0-0? Yeah, it was Spain. All the games. No one predicted. No one saw that. All the games. I've loved it. It's like what you say. like I think I said at the beginning of the tournament I think it was going to be the team that doesn't let in the goals that's going to go further rather than the team that scores the most goals if that makes sense whereas I think people are just going all out all out to win that first game because after that all you just draw really and you're done that's the thing isn't it because there's eight third place teams who are going to qualify so you're right if you get three points on the board in your first game you're not home and hoes but you're in a really nice position aren't you

2:21Chris Stark: it's a good ball cup I like it so far Yeah, I was impressed by Saudi. They've played wild, haven't they? Well, we were saying, weren't we, because there's always this assumption that Saudi Arabia are not going to know their players and they won't have been exposed to a high level of football. But because of the Saudi league, a lot of these players, they're now coming up against, albeit players towards the end of their career, but there's a lot of top flight players now playing in Saudi. So it's different to it might have been before the Saudi league. Yeah, they look confident. We watched it, didn't we, together yesterday in the bar.

2:52and like on the front foot, I mean, popping it around, they've got to, they just lack that, probably a little bit of quality, that final ball, detail on it, but like getting into good areas, you know what it takes is a bit of stroke of luck or a little bit of brilliance and then they're all right. What about Pete? What about Cape Verde? Yes. That was an unreal result. So you predicted, hang on, someone predicted a 5-0. A lot of us were thinking Spain, maybe second favourites behind France. you can mess up your opening games Argentina lost to Saudi Arabia didn't they in um Qatar four years and went on to win it I think when Spain won in 2010 they lost their opening group game but there was something about that where you just went hmm maybe Spain aren't quite

3:34Chris Stark: where they want to be well yeah I mean listen they had chances they created they you know kept the ball obviously that was always going to happen but fair play to Cape Verde there's always stories that come out of this you know world cups in general um the Scotland fans we were just chatting beforehand in Boston. Yeah. That's the story. Yeah. They went to the baseball game, didn't they, Sid? Yeah. Did you see it? Took over Fenway Park. All over socials. It's brilliant. Apparently, that is like, that's nothing. They've just taken over Boston. And the song that they sing is... I can boogie. Brilliant.

4:09Fair play to it. You've got to love it, haven't you? Yeah, class. You've got to love it.

4:12Chris Stark: And it was nice, nice to go out for a bit of dinner last night. It was nice. Met Phil and Grant Mitchell, didn't we? It was nice until you dropped in a quiz question that silenced me for the rest of the evening. It's a ludicrously hard question. We all love our football trivia and it's been a big part of our trip so far. But as you correctly predicted, Pete, as soon as you asked me that question, that's pretty much the end of the conversation. I was staring into space. You were staring into space because you had a secondary part of the question. Which has actually now been confirmed. Okay, all right.

4:44Chris Stark: Well, now I'll take it on. But that question, that's ruined my night. I mean, a lot of the listeners know because I think we've done this question on the pod. But you obviously weren't around then. It took me three days to get it, but I did get it. You're on day two now. Hang on a second. I'm on day one. I found it was asked less than 24 hours ago. Good point. Whereas Sid, you've got the whole tournament to get the one I gave you, which is the anagram of Peter Crouch, international manager. Let's not give too much away for the listeners because we don't want anyone sneaking you the answer. You've got the whole tournament.

5:17And are you confident you'll have it by the end? I mean, to be fair, I've been quite distracted here in La La Land. And I think you've given me a clue, haven't you? If I write Peter Crouch in a circle, then I can maybe use the letters. Yes. Yeah. I'll give it a go. We're on the way to Dallas later on, aren't we? Yeah. You've got a long flight.

5:37Chris Stark: I'm really excited. We're going to Dallas, going to the England game. I can't wait, to be quite honest. What tickled me last night, we were out for dinner. And we all were kind of reminiscent. We said, oh, God, we've had such a great tournament, haven't we, so far. And then we realised that England haven't even played yet. We were going, oh, what a trip. Like, what's been your favourite part? England haven't even played yet. Unbelievable. It's true. But anyway, we've got Rio Ferdinand on the pod today. Good guest. Very, very excited. You know, he's been brilliant when he comes on the pod. He's always been always open and honest.

6:16Chris Stark: He's out here doing his thing as well. So we'll catch up with Rio. Get forward to that. Yeah, I am. He's good value, isn't he, Rio? We've also got a cheeky little game, haven't we, which we planned when we were out last night, did a bit of brainstorming. I think it's going to be good. Yeah, I think he'll enjoy it. Let's get into it.

6:41Chris Stark: Welcome to the podcast, Rio Ferdland. How you doing, mate? I'm good. Good to be back. Very good to be back. It's not the worst here, is it? I've seen better faces. Unbelievable, isn't it? It could have cleared the skies a little bit for us so we could see further. I know, yeah, that's the one problem, but we are lucky to be here. Beautiful. Have you enjoyed it so far? Loving it. We made it a tournament. I'm loving it, mate. I'm loving it. I mean, I come here a couple of days before the tournament started and I was thinking, are we actually going to feel it? But I went to a fan park with the Mexico guys.

7:07It was off the chain. I was DJing there. I'm now a resident DJ in the fan parks. But no, the game just started. But again, I think when you're, wherever country you're from, until your team start the tournament, you're still sitting there with a little bit of like, it ain't started properly yet for us.

7:22Chris Stark: I see obviously like YouTube stuff and you know, what you're doing out here. Like you've got some great guests that you've had on, right? And who have you had on out here? Well, we've got Thierry. Yeah. We've got Kaka. Seedorf. Oh. Is that your chopper? That's it now. Yeah. Let's Seedorf now. Seedorf flying in. Yeah, Chicharito. Got Thiago coming up. Who's been great? Who's been your favourite over the years? Over the years. They're different. You know what? It's mad. Everyone would expect like Cristiano, Bex. They were brilliant in their own way. And it's obviously, when you get them type of names, it's like massive for the channel.

8:02But like even someone like Anderson. Anderson, his story is mental. Like he got plucked out of nowhere from the favelas, living underneath the stadium. Like stuff I didn't know. And that's what's been great about it, is that these guys, they come on, and I always learn something about them. Because in a changing room, you know what it's like, boys. We don't really get too deep with each other, unless we're on a right downer after three, four days out on the spin, right? Which don't happen often. But when you get on there, it's like a safe space, and you get the lads talking, and it's like, you just think, wow.

8:32Even Berber, Berbertov got kidnapped. I never knew that. Did he? Got kidnapped as a kid, yeah. Got kidnapped. You play with these players, and you don't ask these questions.

8:40Chris Stark: How did that happen? No, it was about moving clubs and the guy that was part of one of the clubs he was leaving just kidnapped him. The move wasn't happening until it happened the way he wanted it to happen. Wow. So, like, just mad stuff. And it's just... I love hearing about the football and who was the better cacker the other day was the team he's played, the players he's played with. I actually saw he did 11, didn't he, or something? His five-a-side team that he put up was ridiculous. And you're going, like... He was a sub, actually, in 2002. So we were the golden generation, right? and their front line was a young Ronaldinho, Rivaldo and R9 and Kaká was sub.

9:17That's not so shabby, is it, sis?

9:18Chris Stark: Jermaine. And then the worst thing is we get asked a question, like, why did you not win in a film? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're off-mugging ourselves off. And then we're going and stuff like, yeah, it's because, you know, Man United, the players didn't get on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's four reasons. And they had on the wings Cafu and Roberto Carlos. Mental, mental team. But yeah, the guests have been brilliant. and I feel really blessed and lucky that a lot of them, like they're all ringing me to come on now and I'm just, I'm enjoying it. Yeah, absolutely amazing. What have you made, Rio, of the tournament so far?

9:50Because we were saying that you generally, in the opening games, in the group stage, you often expect something cagey, but these have all been pretty open, haven't they? Goals, haven't they? We've seen goals. It's normally, like you say, it's a little bit like everyone's just feeling each other out first game. There's been some bangers, man. I've really liked it. Even like Carousel scoring, scoring the goal in the tournament was great. even the you see the outfit the Congo team coming yeah phenomenal scenes yeah unreal but like I don't know I've really enjoyed it and I think I think a really important thing is America winning the first game yeah you want the Americans like buying in do you know what I mean you want them here you want them to get part of the fan fan field that this tournament creates and if they're not winning or doing well they'll just disappear yeah they will disappear

10:32Chris Stark: I was in the stadium and it was it was rocking was it that whole the national anthem and then that you know that whole chant afterwards that is very different yeah yeah but i i really enjoyed the experience and stadiums unbelievable that you say it's powerful when you got the whole everyone doing it which is mad when because we had brad frieda on and he was talking about like i say the fans what people were thinking of pochettino and they was calling him fraud yeah like before and like during the qualifiers and stuff it was like nah he's changing the team the squad like they weren't really like seeing what he was seeing and then obviously they come out like out of the traps in that first game I think it's turned a few people's heads on the way they've done it.

11:10Yeah we spoke to Anthony Robertson the other day and he was saying how important the manager's been in terms of like tuning them into it especially in the days leading up to the first game to treat it like they've got to go out there and like give everything and run. That's normal but sometimes you need that little bit of guidance from the manager to really like focus you and get your mind on it and he seems to like he's got the guys firing because Paraguay I know Muggs by the way they beat Argentina and Brazil in qualifiers

11:36Chris Stark: I was mad. You can see that 10 goals in 18 or something. It was amazing, really. You would have come up against Poch, thinking about this, in 2002, wouldn't you? Because he was playing for Argentina. Did he give it a pen away against? Yeah. Against Michael. Yeah. Mad, isn't it? Yeah. People's careers just go... I didn't even know it was him when he even got the job. It wasn't until I saw it in the paper. Someone mentioned it. He had a mullet at the time, didn't he? He was sporting an Argentine mullet. Terrible barnet. Yeah. What about... Was that your first major tournament? Because I want to get into your tournament.

12:04No, my first tournament was 98, France 98, but I didn't play. You're that old? Yeah, man. So it was Michael Owen, isn't it? Did you hear Michael Owen one? So I was on the bench with him. I was there talking him up, going, you could score and he's going, they need to get me on. They must get, I can't believe it. That's how he was. On the bench, he was sitting there going, I can't believe I'm not on yet. Looking down the line like, hold on, hold on, I'm here. Like warming up, going running up and down. He was so confident. Did he just have that unbelievable confidence? Yeah, I was like his cheerleader for the trip.

12:33I swear down because I was like I remember he scored I think it was at Columbia he scored against someone he scored against before then he didn't start and he was like how am I not starting can't believe it then he goes and scores and I remember that night there's always like a games room in there in the hotel so we're in the games room playing pool and table tennis sorry and all I could think about we're out of the tournament now yeah and all I could think about I was saying to him your life's changed man everything's different for you now man that Ferrari we were talking about a couple of weeks ago it's live now you can go and get it it's live it's live and direct you can feel it do you know what as well you gotta come on my napper you gotta I was thinking about knockdowns I was thinking I was thinking you gotta come napper you've gotta come and he went and it was just like I couldn't believe it for years I used to think I used to look at Michael sometimes and go this guy doesn't know what he's missed out on because he went no I went where you going he went no I can't go can't come I said where you going then he says I'm going on the family holiday with my mum and dad and the family and that and he was with his missus at the time and I was like yeah that sounds good but it ain't what you should be doing with the hype you're gonna have what was your reaction if you were on the England bench in that game against Argentina when he scores that famous goal one of the most famous goals any England player scored in a world cup finals what was your reaction oh mental just carnage on the bench I think I was with Paul Merson because we was with him quite a lot we were a bit of a free free ball together during the tournament, the castaways.

14:02But we were just flying about going like, wow. It's quite a surreal moment because it's like you're half living it through him. Because I was so close to him during that tournament, both 18, 19 years old. It was just like, wow, man, I just couldn't believe it. I was so happy for him as well. Like, your life has changed. Everything's different now. And he was just so innocent. It all looks so instinctive, didn't it? It's one of those goals, Sid, where you watch it. We've all seen it many, many times. It's almost like there's no conscious thought process. He's just doing what he's been used to doing when he's 8, 9, 10, 11, coming through, scoring all those goals at D side.

14:34It all looks really easy. Well, if you remember the goal that you scored for England schoolboys at Wembley, remember that goal? Do you ever see that? Yeah, the walkers. Remember that? It was a similar type of way, run through people and scored a goal. Michael was never the most skilful player. If you ask Michael to do 10 kick-ups, there's a geezer in Waitrose who could probably do 10 kick-ups with a bit more smoother. Right? Serious. But you say to him, get from A to B, halfway line to the goal quickest and score he's beaten most at that time he'd been your top three picks in the world

15:03Chris Stark: yeah ruthless finisher as well like even that one like when he goes past the last defender is it Paul Scholes who comes into the picture and you think if you're 18 years old you think that's Paul Scholes and you're like he's coming onto it and his strike I reckon 8 out of 10 18 year olds leave that we had him on the podcast I'm not plugging it again but he was on there and one of the things I said to him I'm like, you've got to bring your Ballon d 'Or because he's so humble. My kids never knew he was a Ballon d 'Or winner. Do you know what I mean? There's a generation of people that just think, no, he's just Michael Owen.

15:37He's a pundit. Yeah. But he's such a great player. Yeah, unreal. Was that, thinking about Owen and all the wonderful things he did for England's Hornets, was that the point in 2006 where he goes off injured when you start thinking, maybe this isn't going to be our year? Was it one of those? Or did you look at the depth of squad? Did you look at the other strikers available? Yeah, well, you know, I was going to say, you know, like, everyone was going,

16:02Chris Stark: I always remember it because Rooney was going into the tournament injured and everyone was kissing the front of the newspaper just to make sure his metastasis was healing and, you know, it was like, everyone pray for Rooney and all that. And I was like, fucking IP doesn't recover. Like, obviously I want England to do well, but I want to play, right? No, no, no. And like, unfortunately, that's how it is. Michael gets injured in the Sweden game and I know that, obviously, I don't wish anyone to get an injury like that, but I know I'm going to I'm going to get a game you have to be buzzing you have to be selfish in this game like even in training did you ever think let me just step on your foot again just to test it just to see if Matt's arse was alright that's it like dog eat dog I might not get the opportunity to play in a World Cup again you know like so I just knew that Wayne Rooney Michael Owen they would always be playing I just knew I needed to be ready and I knew I'd get caps they were the breakout stars when they obviously Michael Owen of 98 Waz that one or the tournament before for the Euros but who do you reckon will be because there's always one that comes out who do you reckon that could be the one for England in this one because they'll all be selfish like you said you know what they're like with all their brands beyond as well listen you do this you go a global superstar obviously Harry Kane's you know our global icon but there might be someone that maybe Nico O 'Reilly could be a young player of the year this year he's had a standout season he's come up with really big goals big moments he's gone from a midfielder attacking midfielder to a left back do you know what I mean can he transfer that form from the Premier League into the England team at a World Cup, then he'd be on everyone's radar.

17:31But it's normally midfielders or attacking players. Declan could stamp his authority on this World Cup. If England go deep in this tournament, he's going to have a lot to say about it. And his influence will be massive. And I think if Declan continues the form he's been in, then he elevates himself beyond even where he is right now after winning the league.

17:48Chris Stark: Who would you back team-wise? What team do you fancy? Well, before a ball was kicked, I was saying definitely Spain and France. but Spain, sorry. Yeah, it's mad then. Yeah, we have to acknowledge the fact that there's a lot of helicopters. Exactly. People are landing in gardens around here. Yeah, I know. Do you know what I mean? So you got here, innit? But no, it's, I said Spain, but Spain have obviously, like they dropped points early straight away against a team that everyone said they'd beat. I think Spain a lot rests on Laminia, Mao, Nico, Williams and Rodri. If those three stay fit and playing at their best, they're the team to beat for me.

18:24And I think obviously France, their third team could compete in this world cup their depth is that is that much so them two are the standouts for me and Rio as someone who's played at a lot of big tournaments we are in the last few hours before England open their campaign against Croatia at this point for a player how is it are you are you champing at the bit you've had all this build up all this build up what's the routine how do you prepare yourself for an opening game yeah like you're looking you have to find stuff to do I think that's one of the most important things you were good at that you play tennis and messed about and stuff like that.

18:55I weren't really good at that. I was always like just in my room or I'd come out and mess about. But then eventually I'd find myself back in my room and sit in there for like five, six hours. So you've got to find stuff to do to make sure your time is used wisely and you don't get too bored and get cabin fever. I was nervous at this point, but good. I always thought if I didn't have nerves, I shouldn't be there. You have to have nerves and like excitement and just like, come on, just get me there. all the time this next day or two 24 hours 48 hours before a game you're like any chance come on it's not helpful is it

19:28Chris Stark: you know like the fact that look how much football we're watching now and like the fact that one of the last teams to play is England I would have hated that I just want to get going I'd rather be the first or second I think one of the biggest things that I'm happy that we didn't have to deal with that they have to deal with like we used to go into a room in the hotel and there'd be a table like this with all the papers on it and you had a choice then whether I read them papers just talking about everything and everyone or I leave them. Now, it's in your hand all day, every day, all night. You can't get away from it.

19:59That's one thing I think I'm happy we didn't have to deal with that.

20:01Chris Stark: I don't know how they deal with that. No. Because you're not going to take the phones off them. No. But what you've got these days is you've got, obviously everyone has an opinion, but now everyone has access to air their opinion. So if you are a doom scroller, if you are someone who is a little bit anxious and wants a little bit of affirmation, if you go looking for affirmation on social media, You're also going to find some people who are giving it all out, aren't you? You're going to find people who are very critical. It's hard to stay away from it. You've got to go into your friends' WhatsApp groups, haven't you?

20:27Stay in them. They're going to give you the affirmation you need. They're going to give you the well done when you've been a four out of ten. Do you know what I mean? You've got this. Don't worry. Do you know what I mean? Until you go out. Yeah. And then they're coming for you.

20:40Chris Stark: They don't care anymore. Yeah, you've got to become a recluse. Rio, we were talking on the way up here, we were talking about the game against Denmark. in the knockout stages in 2002. And we were discussing your goal. Crouchy, I hope I'm not stitching you up, but you described it as a little bit scruffy. Dubious. Rio, and if you want to come back on that. It was slightly dubious. Yeah, very dubious. I felt like the dance might have made up for it. Because it might not have been given to you that. And the post-match interview. Did you? Claimed it straight away. Claimed the goal. Yeah. It's a wild cut, right?

21:13Yeah, you can't take this off me. You can't show it on BBC, live on. I said, no, come on, please. And luckily I got it.

21:18Chris Stark: so very lucky do you know what I mean there's not many players that can say they scored in the World Cup you know what I mean Crouchy you know what I mean you can see what it means for a lot of players like Jimenez have scored for Mexico yeah crying that's what I mean like not many people can say they scored in a World Cup final yeah I don't mention it much to be honest it's beautiful were you going for it and to bear in mind I can't give you any grief my first goal for Liverpool I was the third last person to touch it so I've hit it it's looped over and then Mike Pollock and he's palmed it into the net.

21:50Chris Stark: So I touched it third. And they've got that as well. No, you know what? That moment though, I don't like you say, first goal for Liverpool, what a moment. Do you know what I mean? Scoring in a World Cup, like you've, also I'm a centre-half, I ain't really going to score many. Do you know what I mean? And so if I've got a chance to claim one, I'm going all out. Simple. Is that your favourite World Cup moment for you personally? Was there an experience? Was there a game? What was the best thing? There was two, probably two, that's a great moment, don't get this up there, but there was one other moment or two playing against Argentina, given the history between our countries and playing well and keeping a clean sheet against Bates Dutra, who I regarded as like an icon, absolute iconic footballer and a great number nine in them days.

22:35That was one of my most satisfying and rewarding moments. And actually just lining up against Brazil because the young kid came out in me, lining up against Brazil in knockout football in the world cup. and national anthems are going on. And then like, and the mad thing is, is like, I've looked down the line and you see the names you mentioned before, Ronaldo, Rivaldo, Ronaldinho, etc. Cafu. And amongst all this, I can hear my mum screaming in the stadium. No way. Could you actually hear her? Mate, I swear down, I couldn't believe what I, and I'm trying to concentrate and I hear my mum and then the Brazil team who's everyone's second team then and then it's the England national anthem.

23:15I started like welling up. Yeah, of course. Yeah, like especially when I heard my mum. I just started welling up and then, but that was weird because I come out of the game and I just always promise myself I'll never get caught up emotionally ever again around the game. Did it affect you? Yeah, because I just felt like the game kind of passed me by. Did it really? Yeah, I don't mean to the naked eye, maybe people wouldn't see it or realise, but like I didn't really put my stamp on the game, which then that moment you want to, and maybe I just weren't ready. But again, I always felt that the emotions became too big for me at that time and I allowed it to get to that point.

23:48Chris Stark: But it's a difficult thing when you grow up, like we would have watched those Brazil teams and Brazil or World Cup, there's something special about it. It's like Real Madrid in a Champions League or a European Cup. There's a stigma, there's something special about it, isn't there? And I think when you look at those names, I mean, who is the most difficult? Like Ronaldinho, Rivaldo, you had Ronaldo there, playing against those types of players. Do you know, so Ronaldinho played more out wide then against Ash. And he drifted inside every now and again. Obviously, Ronaldo played up front and Rivaldo was just a drifter.

24:25And it's weird and people will find this probably surprising. Rivaldo was the best player on the pitch by a mile that day. He was a joke. What was the tactics, the England tactics as well? Just try and get near him. Try and rough him up in the sun. Why was Rivaldo so good? Rivaldo man I swear because I knew he was good yeah and I always rated him as one of the best in the world right but I didn't realise just how good he was like how strong he was he was massive he was the same size as me taller than me maybe strong and he's one of those players that when the ball he played to he wouldn't play on the half turn a lot yeah he'd play actually he'd let his back be to play but then I can't see the ball because of the way he shielded the ball yeah and he just wouldn't let you I don't think I even took the ball off him I might have done it once in the whole game.

25:11But because his protection of the ball was great and you knew that if you let him turn then, he could slice the defence open with a pass. He was a size as well, wasn't he? Yeah, he was brilliant. He was brilliant. And you knew that if you let him have a little bit of space, he's either going to pass you with a great pass or he could score from distance as well. He was a phenomenal player.

25:33Chris Stark: Was there any moments like with Ronaldo where you go, oh, a four could get there and you go, oh, he's gone. There was one. There was one. Say for instance, like, I don't know, you're me, and I'm Ronaldo, and the goal's there. Okay. Right? So he's probably about 25 yards out. He's turned and faced me, Ronaldo. So I've come to engage. He's played it into Rivaldo on the edge of the box past me and took a step to run to goal for the one-two. So he's so quick. All I've thought about, I have to just get my head down and run towards goal. Right? Forget the ball. Forget the mound. Just run. Right? I'm going to get there first.

26:09As I've sprinted off, the game just stopped it felt like. And I turned around and he took one or two steps to go there and stopped and come back for him to stun it. And he shot and he scuffed it. And I just thought, I'm so happy that's happened that he's done that. If he scores that, my life's over, career done, right? But what I thought when I ran back to the halfway line and David Seaman had the ball, I thought, in the game, I thought, that is levels above me. I've got a long way to go. As I was thinking, you know what, I'm in the World Cup. I'm like, I'm a player. and everyone's talking about me.

26:41That humbled me quickly and I thought, fuck, this is a different level, man. Was there any point in that game, because England obviously were leading through Michael Owen and then Brazil equalised just before half-time. Does that feel, when you look back, does that feel like an opportunity that slipped away or does it feel, looking back at that Brazil team, that actually they were in control? Yeah, that didn't slip away, they took it. Yeah. Because they had 10 men and still play keep-ball with us. And this is why I worry about England here. the conditions there were so hot. And in the warm-up, we were running around looking for the area of shade on the pitch.

27:17It was a 10 by 10 square and half the team were warming up in that square because it was so hot before the game. And the conditions just took all the fight out of us. So I hope the guys are better conditioned. They probably are now and able to be able to deal with this heat because that was a definite, like that brought our level down massively. But that's taking nothing away from them. Again, they went to 10 men and their game plan didn't change. So, I don't know if you've heard the news that Liveramento's injured. He's come out of the squad. Trevor Shalabar's in. First of all, you're surprised in that, that they've replaced him with Trevor Shalabar, not someone like Trent, someone like that.

27:54And then obviously, reminiscence of you got injured as well. Yeah, it's weird. I was actually talking to Trevor this last week. He was coming over at a train, actually. I was going to meet up with him. but so well I mean congratulations to him first and foremost but I see why he's taken him he can play multiple positions he can play full back or centre half and he's quick two cool likes pace I think from looking at his team he wants robust quick athletic players Trevor Chalibur fits that but yeah I mean listen Livramento man I mean I've been there myself I was on the eve of the day before the World Cup in South Africa 2010 I'm captain of the team and I get injured.

28:36And do you know what? I talked about this to someone yesterday. I was injured, right? And obviously this situation, when you're that older that goes into that, you're thinking, oh my God, depression. You're thinking, world's ending. They take me to the hospital on crutches and I'm sitting in a hallway waiting to go into this room after I've had a scan and a fella gets wheeled in on a bed, blood everywhere. And the fella passed away. need to come out of the ring and say, oh, the guy's passed away. And it was probably the worst, best thing that could have happened to me at that point. Because unfortunately, yeah, exactly.

29:13It puts it into perspective what's going on because unfortunately, yeah, that guy's passed away. And I'm sitting there thinking I've had the worst day of my life. And there's a lot more worse can happen.

29:24Chris Stark: I remember I was in that camp, right? South Africa in 2010. And I remember you coming in and crutches. What was the incident? Was it Hesky or something? Was it a challenge in training? and it was I felt for him because he felt guilty and he's a lovely guy I mean we grew up together playing for England as kids so but he was nothing he couldn't have done anything about it the ball's come in and he's in front I've gone to nick it through his legs and he's lost his balance and just fell on my knee and it's kind of just gone back and then I've done something to my ligaments and did you know in that moment I knew straight away I knew like obviously at that moment you start asking the physio what do you think what do you think you ask him 100 times you're like a kid in a car how long till we're there I was asking him 100 times and he was just like listen just wait till we get there and when he's saying that I know that it's not good he's not giving you hope but the fact that the pain I was in straight away I knew that I ain't going away for the game the next day or two but I remember like credit to you I remember like you could be devastated there and not want to be anywhere near the World Cup but you hung around yeah I stayed I stayed for the first game I stayed for the training and then the first game and then a couple of days after and then to be fair I just said you know what I need to get away from it and like start my recovery and just go away with my family for a bit I actually went to Morocco actually with my family and um yeah it's a tough tough day tough but sometimes them moments make you do you know what I mean a bit of resilience did you watch the rest of that tournament or was it too painful to watch I watched England yeah I didn't watch really any of the other games I didn't I just lost complete like interest really I was just again like you do spiral into a bit of a depression not depression but a little bit of like so like to watch it is just like watching what you can't have yes I mean so but England yeah I watched the England games but it's disappointing tournament really in the end what do you think is the the why he doesn't want to call Trent up what is the reason for that do you think I just don't think he rates him simple as that and I think every manager is entitled to to their opinion on players and it's the game of opinions isn't it like I just don't think he's seen something in Trent in my eyes I don't know this I've not spoken to Thomas Tuchel about it but I think he's seen something in Trent that he goes that ain't right for me I don't like that and that ain't good for my team and my squad so I'm not gonna I'm not gonna bend to the to the media pressure and all the opinions and I think that's what I rate about Thomas Tuchel yeah because too many times in the past managers have folded to public opinion and the media opinion so he's just said no I'm not having it and and no matter what we think listen Trent's probably the most talented right back we've ever had in terms of pure talent but the game's more than just talent do you know what I mean and people see different things in different players and if there's something there that just is grating on him as a manager then we've got to respect that I have to agree with you I think Thomas Tuchel could have always gone about it like you say we have conformed to what other people want there's pressure on it from fans from press and I think they have willed at times and I think we've got a strong manager in charge I think we've got to back him until it goes wrong and everyone does and everyone jumps on his head attacking wise for England we've got to be one of the favourites in the tournament in terms of creating goals scoring goals like Harry Kane in terms of that as well where are you putting our firepower yeah I think it's up there but again it's a bit like everyone called us the golden era like you've got like Nico Williams Laminia Mar right them two alone you look at that and go have we got much better than that because they've won the Euros by the way they've done it at this level do you know what I mean you look at France's squad they've got probably five or six that would get into our team that would play ahead of our players other than Kane you know what I mean so like we've got some good players Kane's a great Kane's the genuine world class guy and we've got some really good ones around him I mean listen Saka I don't think there's any left back in the world that is going to bed sleeping easy before they play Saka you know what I mean and this could be a tournament for him.

33:32He's missed a lot of football this year. It could be a blessing in disguise for him that he's a bit fresher. I hope so. I hope that happens. And on the other wing, you've got one player who's just gone to Barcelona and one who's left there as a league winner. Do you know what I mean? And different players. But yeah, I think we've got a good... I mean, Maduweki, I think the reason the manager... I like the reason the manager give about him. He's a sub for Arsenal, knows how to come on. That's going to be his role here, basically. It seems so sensible, doesn't it? Because I think when he was, he was one of those names in the squad where people found other players they thought were superior players.

34:04But when it was explained that he is there specifically for this job, he's not going to start. When Saka gets tired or Saka can't play all the minutes because of his Achilles, he pops on and he knows exactly what he's doing. And do you know what as well? I think you'll notice as well in the squads, how players accept being subs is a massive thing. Like I was in, I was in 98, like Martin Keown, Les Ferdinand, They don't want to be subs. They're superstars at their football clubs and they're going, hold on, what's going on there? And you can feel there is a tension that the squad don't need if you're going to be successful.

34:40Chris Stark: I remember speaking to Les about Euro 96 and Shearer hadn't scored for like the whole qualifier. And Les had won, scored 30 Premier League goals and won the PFA Player of the Year. Didn't we get one minute in Euro 96? Mental. You think about it, how did you win the PFA Player of the Year and don't get one minute? Yeah. It's mad. So the understanding, the dynamic of your squad is massive. Again, that could be an issue with Trent. No one talks about that. Trent is, like you say, is a precocious talent, right? Won everything for Liverpool. Now at Real Madrid, and he's going to go there and be a sub.

35:11We don't know this, but is there an element that he's going to sit there and could be a bit of an issue, could be a bit moody because he's sub? I don't know if that's the answer, but that might be something that Tuchel's looking at. I don't know. Well, more often than not, it's the ones that are not playing, that are subs and not getting missed, that drive the atmosphere and the culture within the camp, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, they're the ones going out, doing the extra sessions. When everyone trains, they're still driving that one because they work away. It's hugely important.

35:35Chris Stark: That's the problem with England as well. You've got like, everyone who plays for England is one of the best players in their club. They're not used to this sitting around not playing. You're only there because you're playing every week. It's going to be interesting to see it. I mean, and again, who starts like Jude Burnham, Morgan Rodgers, like, what's the dynamic going to be like there? There's a lot to unpick, but the group stages I was with Kaka yesterday and he said something really interesting he said to win the World Cup you've got to be able to unpick situations you've got to be able to find solutions for problems throughout the tournament and there's going to be a lot of problems behind the scenes on the pitch etc and it's the best the team that does that best wins and I really agree with that Rio we're going to finish off with a little quiz we did one with Brad Friedel didn't we boys the other day and I think it was a little bit over complicated at times so we have really simplified Probably a bit of shit, if I'm being honest.

36:27That's the other way of putting it, Pete. So, Rio, we did a little bit of brainstorming when we were out for dinner last night. It's super simple. This is a World Cup Finals Either Or. So I'm going to give you two options. It's quite straightforward. You just give us your preferred option, okay?

36:40Chris Stark: I feel you're going to like this game. No, I don't. It's quite good. I like it. Bear in mind, we did this over dinner. We had a few. We'd had a few. So, yeah. I'd always like sober. So your first World Cup Either Or is celebration. you can have either Roger Miller or you can have Babetto Roger Miller that was like iconic okay your next one is World Cup Stadium you can have Azteca or Maracanã Maracanã because Brazil yeah Brazil man and John Barnes scored the goal there remember that goal yeah my guy John Barnes okay your next one is World Cup Manager you can have Didier Deschamps or Franz Beckenbauer Franz Beckenbauer Franz Mann okay he knows so they've won it as a player and as a manager as well Mario Zagallo did as well but those two we could need it all we can't have a third option we're going to get into the gutter a little bit now Crouchy because your next one Rio is World Cup foul and you can have Claudia Kinesia against Cameroon there's like three fouls it's three parts cartwheeling through the pitch the final move was disgusting the final one or we can go super simple 2010 World Cup final Nigel de Jong Javi Alonso yeah that was a bad one in the chest wasn't it I probably the theatrical element of the Canadian one I'll take that one yeah okay World Cup shirt we're going to give you Italy 1982 winners or we're going to give you an absolute sort of hipster one which is Denmark 86 the Hummel shirt oh that was nice that's a good one Loudrup yeah that's good Molby, Olsen.

38:22Chris Stark: Peter Schmichel. I've got to go the Italy one, just iconic though, isn't it? Yeah. So simple. Beautiful kit. Beautiful Italian. isn't it as well? Beautiful. Yeah, I'll go there. Okay, your next one, red card, England red card, David Beckham or Wayne Rooney? I reckon this is like, what's the bigger impact? Yeah, Beck's was the bigger impact. Beck's is life-changing. Yeah. The full round really, I remember being at the, were you playing then? Yeah. What was that? Because I remember... No, I didn't play. I was in the squad, sorry. I was at Chelsea when... Were you United then though? No, no. I was at West Ham.

39:00Chris Stark: West Ham. Yeah, it was early days, wasn't it? Yeah. Because I just think... I don't know if you remember like around the place. I went to one of the first games it was Chelsea. West Ham was the first game, wasn't it? Oh, crazy. Oh. Mate. You'd think that it took... It killed someone. Really? Yeah. You'd think that it'd have killed someone and that... And you saw... the impact it had on him as well was bad, man. Don't forget he's from Leightonstone, near West Ham, you know what I mean? And he like, it was, it weren't nice to see, man. And I think people, again, the media and the fans were all preparing to kind of really give him a hard time.

39:35And it was like, you think, bro, we're just playing football, man. This ain't like life or death here. Yeah. We're too far, maybe. Yeah, definitely. Okay, your very final World Cup either or Rio, and we're going to take it back to basics. Either OG, the Jules Rimet trophy or the current trophy? No, the current one. That's my generation. The current one.

39:56Chris Stark: I said the same. I think, because you usually want to go historic. Yeah. But a new one is... It's beautiful, isn't it? It's a beautiful trophy. It's weird. I keep name dropping him, but Kaka was talking about it yesterday. The way he was talking about it, he was still feeling it there. Yes. That invisible, but you could think that. Lovely. The way he's moulded his hands is like it's the perfect circumference and all this stuff. It's so perfect. But is it though? and it feels like when they lift it, it's a little bit like... It's like one and a half hands. It's a bit bigger. Yeah, it's like a one and a half.

40:23Because you could do one, but two feels a bit too much. It's like trying to drink a pint with two hands. I think you'd lift it anyway, wouldn't you? I'm not complaining.

40:31Chris Stark: Mate, I'd hold it better than my little bathroom ball baby. I'd take more care. Rio, absolute pleasure having you on. Love coming on. Love the pod, by the way. Love what you guys are doing. We love what you're doing as well. So, listen, you're always welcome around here. You and the boys, welcome. Barbecue. Definitely. Definitely. I'll bring the beers. Let's do it. Superb. Good to see you, mate. Time to check in with Chris Stark. He's been roaming around London. Check in with the fans, see what they find out with the game.

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41:41Yes, boys. I'm in the Chumbawamba. I am here in the king's throne. I have been getting a lot of comments about this almost a little bit 50 50 in the kind of how dare he be sat in Peter's chair and then the other half of people going oh go take the throne my friend go take it whilst the boys are away I would say we have tried to do this where I'm still sat on the sofa but it's just a little bit sad on my own really so what I want to do in today's podcast a little bit later on is I'm going to get out and about and just try give you a bit of a sense of what it's like over here because I'm seeing you boys have an incredible time out in America and the World Cup is really starting to bubble up here.

42:22All the gimmicks, all the characters that we're seeing, it's really starting to get fun here and obviously there's a huge build-up to the England game that's happening tonight. I would say there was a lot of parties after the Scotland game as well including a little sneaky bank holiday for the Scots but yeah a lot of excitement ahead of the game tonight so I'm going to get out and about. I'm going to go to a few tourist hotspots and try to speak to some England fans.

42:50Hello USA. Okay, I'm here in central London, of course, in front of the world famous Big Ben, one of England's greatest landmarks. We've got to talk into a tiny microphone, which is a bit pathetic, but come over here a little bit. We've managed to grab this guy here. He says he only speaks a little bit of English, so I'm going to try to speak some French. I'll speak to you. Bonjour. Bonjour. Comment up to you. You've been watching the podcast. You've seen the lads out in America. I have. And, you know, I'm sure you're gutted. We haven't really had a chance to speak about it, really, but it's soul destroying.

43:27Just not being involved there. Unbelievable set up, you know, in the hills. Didn't get the call up, mate. Didn't get the call up. Having a nice time in England? Yeah, sure, sure. What are you doing here? Holiday? for the third time. Okay, cool. Are you enjoying the World Cup so far? A lot. It's very good. What games have you enjoyed? What's really caught you eye? I liked South Africa versus Mexico because all the red cards and I thought it was really funny. Do you enjoy Peter Crouch? Do you know Peter Crouch? Yeah, yeah, yeah. To one. Ollie, we're doing score predictions. So tomorrow night, what do you reckon?

44:05I'm going to go, I think 1-1. It's boring. It's boring, but I just think, you know, I think 1-1. It's a horny draw. England, Croatia? 2-0 England. I think Croatia aren't the team they used to be anymore. They've got a lot of old players and I think they hit their peak a few years ago and they're not as good anymore. Out of interest, what do you consider old? Well, they've got Luka Modric. He's not the player they've been before and I think they've got a lot of players that are about 33 and older and I just don't think their team looks that good on paper anymore. It worries me you think 33 is old now that I'm north of that number.

44:38The Notorious S.I.D. I don't know what... The Steven Sidwell? I don't know... No, never heard of him. We've been doing this game with Taurus, we've basically been showing them pictures of Crouchy and Sid. And a lot of them, I find this incredible, a lot of them don't know who they are. Have you ever seen this man before? Not at all, no. No. What do you think has made him famous? He's famous, but why? Maybe some Nuktur? Yeah, a Nuktur I think. You're close. If Peter Crouch wasn't a footballer and we take the Virgin side out of it, and if SIDS hadn't been one of our greatest ever number nines, what do you think them boys would have been doing?

45:26I hate to say it, a crouchy window cleaner. Sid I think he'd do well as a life model as he showed he looked natural there Aidan this is for Peter Crouch's podcast I've seen that have you heard of him or is he just old and retired Peter Crouch he used to play for Liverpool obviously yeah yeah yeah Stoke yeah very good player and Stephen Sidwell of course no yeah don't worry boys very intriguing stuff speaking to some of the tourists around here I feel like we covered a few countries there and some amazing answers for what you guys would be if you weren't footballers I think it's been a tiny bit of a humbling experience but I hope you've enjoyed it Pete can we please invest in a slightly bigger microphone for myself next time because I do feel like I'm being judged on the size of it and boys I guess that's back to you in the studio until next time

46:22Chris Stark: OK this next part of the podcast is supported by Paddy Power we have a letter from Minister of Mischief, apparently. I always get it wrong every time. Hi, Crouchy Tom, Notorious. Can't quite believe I'm writing to you again so soon. I seem to spend more time conversing with the three of you than I do with Mrs Mischief. Alas, when the games are coming thick and fast, so are Predictions League. And so before we've even found out the results of the last round, here we go again. With that in mind, I'll spare you my usual witticisms around your recent performances and go straight into revealing our next Paddy Power big fixture, which will be USA versus Australia.

47:05Chris Stark: Oof. When it comes to Chaos Collider, I call it Vegas Baby. And as you may have guessed, this one requires some lady luck as you'll quite literally be rolling the dice on your correct score predictions. That's right, one dice, two rolls. Your first number is your USA goals. the second is Australia other than that your remaining bet builder legs will be as normal simply select a player you fancy to pick up a card and another you think will register two or more shots on target and with that I'll bid you the best of luck catch you on the next one lads the plenty power minister of mischief I read that and took none of it in if you could explain that to me that'd be fantastic I heard something about one dice when I'm four dice so that confused me yeah so sorry this is this is the Vegas baby card yeah this is this is what we're talking about yeah from Ringwalk Sidwell what does that say so the roll the dice to decide the correct score leg of your bet builder roll the dice to decide the correct score do we have dice leg of your bet builder okay well we in true Peter Crouch podcast fashion we haven't got a dice we're playing a dice game without any dice so there is a dice app here so I'm going to roll first for the USA this is USA's score 6 I think USA will get 6 yes I really do and Australia Australia will be 1 6-1 6-1 okay not bad they won 4-1 they won 4-1 if they go and smash Australia 6 that would be an unbelievable shot right this is my roll for the co-host USA Four dice with one dice.

48:50And four dice has come up with a four on the dice. Four on the dice. Chances that. That is beautiful. There's a four on the dice. And mate, now we'll do the roll for Australia. And four on the buggers? It's a two. A four, two. I like those numbers.

49:07Chris Stark: High scoring game on the dice, isn't it? Okay, here we go. I'm going to roll. I mean, the one floor is there's no nil on a dice. For the USA, I have got a... Ah, six. Got a six. Do you know what? If you were playing a game, you wouldn't get one six, would you? Do you reckon this is for Australia? It's going to be a five. It's going to be a five. Six five. What's the chances in that? Honestly. Is this being stitched up? Have I been reading it? I'm so happy to score a game here. Okay, so in terms of someone getting a yellow card, Sid, the first time we played this, you went first. Second time, you went first.

49:46It's my turn to go first. I'm going to say competitive player likes getting his foot in. Tyler Adams is going to get a card for me. Okay. Sids, for you? I will go for Tim Ream.

50:02Chris Stark: Card for Tim Ream. I'll go Aidan O 'Neill in midfield for Australia. You love Aidan O 'Neill. He's one of my favourites. Okay. And then someone to get two or more shots on target. And Crouchy, just to remind you, the post and the crossbar. I do not count as the target. Weird though that is. Weird though that is. I am torn between Pulisic and Balogun and I'm going to go Balogun. Okay. Yeah, sit. Pete, do you want to go next? Okay, I will go for McKinney. Oh, I was actually going to go for him. All right, I'll go for... Who did you go for? I've gone Balogun. I'll go Pulisic. Okay, nice. I'll go Pulisic.

50:44Chris Stark: Right, remember guys, please gamble responsibly.

50:56Chris Stark: Alright, well that was Rio Ferdinand. Always good fun to see him. You know, it's good to see how he's thoughts on England in general really. What are your thoughts on England in general? Are we going to get out of the group? Are we going to win, you know, at the time of recording we've not played Croatia yet? That's probably the most difficult game. I'm thinking it might be a bit squeaky a little bit squeaky I don't think Croatia are the team they were there are some aged legs in that team by the time we get to Panama I think that will be fine obviously played Panama in a World Cup before and we tore them a new canal so I think that will be okay

51:36Chris Stark: would you say just to clarify you did say tore them a new canal I like that we can use that again I enjoyed it I think it's all above board just a quick one would you would you say it would be a disaster if we didn't top the group I would say no because I think you know when you do your bracketology and you go through it and you work out all your permutations Pete I think you always fail to take into account that there will be other rogue results and sometimes when you plot it you go okay boom boom boom boom it's not always it's the worst thing in the world. And this is a little bit of a World Cup cliche, Sid, but to win a World Cup, you've got to beat good teams.

52:16Yeah? You can't expect just like an armchair ride through to quarterfinal time. You are going to meet good teams. You have to win the World Cup, play good football, win big matches.

52:24Chris Stark: There you go. Totally agree. All right. Well, I mean, we're going to leave you to hold the fort here. I'm sure you're going to be all right. I think we'll be fine here. You boys enjoyed Dallas. I think I'll be absolutely fine, Pete. I'll keep the home fires burning. I'll relax at the pool here. We'll catch up with you. when you're back. It's going to be nice to get going properly, Sid, isn't it? Is there anything we can do in Dallas while we're there? I'm going to go to a rodeo. Are you really? Yeah. Is that going to be your first rodeo? It is going to be my first rodeo. It's not his first rodeo.

52:58Chris Stark: Alright, we'll see you next time. Yeah!

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