That Semi-Final Episode: Gary Neville on Tuchel’s tactics & England’s cruel Argentina exit I Ep. 415

0:06Chris Stark: Hello and welcome to that Peter Crouch podcast with me Peter Crouch. Just Sid's with me today. Tom's gone home and Chris is still doing a normal job. Yeah, holding the floor back home. Which is a shame. You know, we're trying to see if they can come out here or perhaps zoom in for the, maybe after the final. But at the moment it's just me and you mate. Yeah mate and we are obviously, look at his backdrop eh, we love a backdrop lads. In all honesty, we have nailed backdrops. We might not have nailed any podcasts, but the backdrops have been top level. Well, if there's any noise, this is potentially the noisiest city I've ever been in.

0:42Chris Stark: I don't know how you feel. I mean, there's a fella cutting a grass that's pretty loud down there. We've also got boats with the horns. We've had, you know, choppers. I found it's aggressive, New York. We've done a few of them. I mean, you've travelled more, been in and out. I've been in LA most of it bit of Miami and then New York now and the first thing I've noticed in New York is everyone wants to get everywhere as quick as they can so my taxi driver literally dropped me off held a bit of traffic up straight away like horns get the fuck out of the way I'm like wow so I've walked into my hotel dropped my bags down as I've walked out I swear to you one block down I'm crossing the road there's another man crossing this way and I've tried to sort of speed up and then stopped down to let him go in front of me, I couldn't whisper, what did he say?

1:31Chris Stark: He said something like, are you so down on fucking purpose? You want to cuddle me? I was like, yeah. So you've been here for 10 minutes and you're already getting low. Within five minutes, I've been letting know what New York is like. But what a city, I love it. Absolutely great. It is unreal. I mean, we've been missing as well. We've been apart. I see you in Miami, didn't I? On the last day. And because we spent most of the time together, I was like, mate, where you been? I've missed you. I know. So it's a bit separation anxiety as well, you know. I think we've built bonds that will last forever.

2:01Chris Stark: Yeah. You know, can't wait to see the back of these two, though.

2:06Chris Stark: No, it's been amazing. Listen, I just flew back in from Atlanta last night. What a stadium that is, by the way. Really? Like, phenomenal. So the first half was a bit of a shocker, right? So I'm working with Fox and I'm outside and I'm doing the game. Hold on, there's a seaplane going over our head, I believe. We've had them all. We've had helicopters, drones, we've had boats, ships. There we go. Just to add to it. Just a little bit more noise. So you had a shocker, go on. I had a bit of a shocker. I was on a platform outside. Fox have got, you know, they're big fans, loads of fans being there.

2:43Chris Stark: But bearing in mind, we were there and then it kind of went right up to kick-off. So by the last 10 minutes, it just looked like we were in a car park because no one was there. And then obviously the game's going on in the air. Then we have to watch it in agreement. so I watched the first half in the green room on the telly. Could have been anywhere. So you wasn't actually in the stadium. Didn't even go in the stadium. Killer. Then, thankfully, we did halftime and then the second half I got to go in the stadium and I don't think it comes across, I mean, the people that have been lucky enough to go to this World Cup, some of the stadiums are...

3:12Chris Stark: So I was going to ask you, so go on in, you've done a lot. What would be your favourite stadium that you've been in and worked? Or last night? The Azteca was just because it was the Azteca. It was the history of it all. The thought of Maradona being positioned and just watching him do that turn and then set off. The hand of God. Brazil in 70, that goal. So much history there. And the atmosphere with the Mexican fans. The Mexican national anthem was like nothing I've ever experienced before in my life. And then even getting into the ground, the way the Mexicans were with us and then the actual game.

3:54Chris Stark: Yeah. Going down to 10 men. I mean, the whole thing was something that won't kind of leave me. And I think you kind of get caught up in it all. And I think I came out there going, you know, the boys are gladiators. And this, you know, because it was just, because you got so caught up in it. And I think now the dust settled. You look at it, you know, for what it was. An incredible performance. And then when you, when I think some of the writers who have wrote about it, you know, have kind of been critical of England, and rightly so as well over the years, but they all said that was the best moment that they've had watching England.

4:26Chris Stark: I see that. You know you're a part of something special. So that stadium, infrastructure-wise, I think the Dallas Cowboys one you went to with me, and the SoFi LA Stadium as well, which is just state-of-the-art. Absolutely incredible. And when I was going down an escalator and a palm tree was next to me into the ground, I was like, I felt like I was in Westfield.

4:52you're like

4:52Chris Stark: there's a game girl right there I'm walking into a football it just doesn't feel like you know there wasn't people pissing up the wall basically it felt like a nice environment let's talk about last night obviously you was there what do I want to know about the atmosphere because there's a lot that was riding on this game beforehand with what's going on history and games could you feel the tension in the air and what are we saying obviously about the outcome it was difficult because where I was sitting we came up and it was like in the bits where millions of Argentina are just surrounded by Argentina fans.

5:27Chris Stark: All very nice, but, you know, not ideal. You could see the kind of tension with the England fans biting their nails. It was a matter of time, wasn't it? I think within the last half an hour, I mean, I think it was 12 % possession since we scored. Which is, you know, when you've got players that have the calibre of Messi creative-wise, it just felt like a matter of time. It was cruel how late it was. But unfortunately, you know, I think the kind of tactics and the... And I've played in games like that. You know, I remember games where you're just inviting pressure and you know it's coming. Yeah.

6:05Chris Stark: Yeah, it's a natural... I don't know. It's just a natural instinct to drop deep, protect what you've got, get sort of everyone in and around the box. And more often than not, you kind of come out unscathed or you get through it. You can do, but... You can't do it against the top teams. No, because they'll just pick you apart. You keep getting them time on the ball to pick passes and run at you. It's a matter of time before that ends up the way it does. But it'll be interesting today because we've got Gary Neville on. And, you know, he can break things down for us and have a look at his outlook on it, his take on it.

6:36Chris Stark: Yeah, yeah. He'll be great, I think. I think he's the perfect guest to have after last night's game in terms of what he's going to see, how he sees it. Because everyone sees the game through a different lens. I mean, we sat and watched it in a bar yesterday and we had a few England fans in there and the stuff that they were saying, I'm like, are you watching a different game? You know, I don't want to out the fella, but... Who's he there? No, no, no, it wasn't him. It wasn't a fun house, it was that way.

7:07Chris Stark: What's his... What's his pilot like these days? It's not looking sharp. Is it?

7:19Chris Stark: We'll leave it there. We'll leave it there. All right, well, listen, let's hear what Gary's got to say. I'm sure plenty of people would like to hear. But, yeah, listen, we'll chat with Gary all things, not just England. Let's get into it now.

7:39Chris Stark: Right, we're joined by Gary Neville. How are you, mate? Very good. Bit of a sobering morning, this one. It is a bit, isn't it? I've just come back from Atlanta from a game. Oh, you just got in there? Just got in. But I have to say, I've just arrived into your set-up. It's a nice little set-up. You've got ITV just here. Yeah. And then do you do the overlap here as well?

8:01Gary Neville: We've been doing it in the studio downstairs, but to be fair, we've been so looked after this last. I mean, it's been unbelievable. You've got Brooklyn Bridge, obviously Manhattan, Statue of Liberty. ITV have knocked it out of the park. They've done an incredible job. Obviously England haven't got to the final, which is the pinnacle for us, but yeah, I'm sure we'll talk about that. We were good at going out of tournaments as well, weren't we? Well, yeah, we were just saying that.

8:21Chris Stark: And Gary was like, what are we going to do? And he was like, you know, we'll discuss your income. And you obviously said it's very similar to what they did last time. Yeah, there's a lot of patterns. I mean, was it different though, Gary? It felt a little bit different at times, but I know the end result was the same.

8:36Gary Neville: I felt the second half when they started dropping deep into their own box and not getting out and protecting their lead rather than sort of what would be. And I don't know whether it's tiredness or whether it's just a sort of mentality thing, but I did see patterns between sort of, say, 2004 against Portugal. We were one they looked for a long time, weren't we? And then we started sitting back into our own box. Do you remember Hilda Postiga scored a goal? Yeah, I do remember, yeah. Like five yards out, similar to Martinez, the second one, last night. And I thought, joy, it reminded me so much of us.

9:04Gary Neville: And do you know when the lads started going back into their box, I was screaming at the telly, lads, get out your box, because we know how this ends. you're asking for trouble and we got trouble but like I say it felt a little bit of a similar pattern to certain things that I saw in the game

9:17Chris Stark: what about first half though because we was watching it in our hotel and half time come and there was a few England fans in and they was like can't get any worse than that and I actually thought first half we were very good I thought we were toe to toe I thought we like you know we approached the battle as well we stood our ground we had moments of brilliance we kind of kept Messi quiet had probably one run in the first half other than that I thought we was probably the better team.

9:40Gary Neville: I'd have been really happy if I was a defender for us at half-time because, like you say, you've kept Messi quiet. Alvarez is quiet. You've not really created... They've not created any chances whatsoever. I think we've met a scrap. It was a struggle, wasn't it? The game was continually stopping. They were sort of making fouls left, right and centre. We seemed to be doing it a little bit. But I wasn't unhappy at half-time at all. I don't think you could say we were playing badly in the first half. And I felt as though the game, up until our goal, I was really happy with it. I mean, what were people expecting us to go and beat them two or three?

10:09Gary Neville: You know, that was never going to happen. So, no, I wasn't sort of disheartened by what I saw in the first 50, 55 minutes at all.

10:15Chris Stark: Yeah. Do you think, I mean, what was the, with regards to Tuchel, like, what could he have done? Like, do you think bring on the, you know, pace, get pace around? Or do you even take Kane off?

10:25Gary Neville: Do you know, I mean, look, I think he'll look at that game back and I think he'll think, I don't think he can take Kane off. We said this, we were doing a watch along. and if Harry Kane wasn't Harry Kane now, you'd be taking him off, and you'd be bringing pace on up front. You'd definitely have Rashford or Saka on, I think, to stretch them and try and get some sort of what would be running in behind. He decided, I think, he went all in on, I'm going to protect that lead and we're going to get a 1-0 win. He went all in, and it didn't come off. We fell five minutes short, and obviously they scored in 85 minutes.

11:03Gary Neville: It's a risky strategy, as an England manager to do that because that's what our fans don't want. We want to die trying, don't we? We'd rather lose 2-3-1 and be sort of going for an attack. But he didn't go for the second goal, really. He left us with too many defenders on the pitch. They were sagging back into the box. They were too narrow as well. So when Messi started sitting out on this right-hand side, even Nico O 'Reilly, who's a young kid, they should have been telling him to get out closer to Messi and ignore what was inside, really. If Rodrigo de Paul's in there or if Paredes is in there, whoever else, leave them, go and attach yourself to Messi, and we just didn't get it right in that last 20 minutes.

11:38Gary Neville: He's going to get, I mean, he's getting an absolute hammering, isn't he? I'm, how are you with it, by the way? Because I failed with England a lot in tournaments, and because I've suffered out on that pitch, and my legs have gone out on that pitch, doing exactly what them lads were trying last night, I don't feel this morning in kill mode, I'll be really honest with you. I think that we've been there. It doesn't mean it's right. I mean, two wrongs don't make a right. We can be critical of him. But I think in a balanced way, because we've been there and experienced what they went through last night, I think.

12:07Chris Stark: I'll be honest with you. I was coming over with Waza on the flight. He's in Kilmo, isn't he? He's in Kilmo. He's gone full on. I mean, he said a couple of things, but on the way over, he was like, it's quite interesting, really. He was like, I don't envy the position they're in now. He said, I don't miss that. You know, when you go out of the tournament as players, they obviously don't want to fail at this hurdle. They all wanted to bring it home, as you say, right? Crouch, imagine us though.

12:37Gary Neville: Imagine us sat here this morning having gone out. I mean, I went to five tournaments as a player and went out in two quarterfinals, a semifinal, group phase, and the last 16. And we're sat there knowing exactly how they feel this morning. I got to a semifinal in Euro 96, didn't play in the semifinal because I was suspended, but we got to the semifinal. If we sit here this morning, having had exactly the same levels of experiences, is we know they are absolutely devastated this morning. Them lads are absolutely down and out. They're struggling. They feel like they've let their families down. They feel like they've let their country down.

13:09Gary Neville: They feel like they've let their fans down, the ones who've travelled. And they are not in a place this morning that's pretty good. They are struggling. And we were there all those years ago. So I think this morning, look, they'll regret it for the rest of their lives. I nearly cried at the end of the 2006 game against Portugal when we got beat on penalties because I knew I was never coming back to a World Cup. Harry, John Stones, Jordan Pickford unlikely that they'll ever get in that moment ever again in their lives and that's where I sort of get goosebumps a little bit because I think to myself you're five minutes away from a World Cup final and you've got Argentina 1-0 and you will think about that five minutes, that ten minutes for the rest of your lives and I look at the manager of course, could he have made more positive substitutions, yeah I think he could Just on themselves though

13:55Chris Stark: so I think we've in the squad and we've got the players there, but it kind of, you can see how the tournament was going to go from his selection. So in that game, and you'd notice more than me, when you're that deep, you need ball carriers, I think. So if you get someone on that can just stay on the ball, like we've had been a Stephen Mannerman years ago or Jack Gries, that stays on the ball and just gets you up the pitch, 10 yards, 20 yards, takes the pressure off of you rather than go defensive, which has worked in the previous games, but you can't do that against, obviously, Argentina.

14:25Gary Neville: That's his problem. he literally gambled everything on winning 1-0 and holding out and them not scoring. He gambled everything on that. And when they score, I was watching next to Roy and Wright, Roy said straight away, they'll score again. You knew it. You could just feel that coming then. And for me, as a manager, Mourinho used to defend like that, and it was called a Mourinho masterclass, when he used to see out 1-0 victories. But if you lose that way, or if you draw that way, you get hammered. There's no in-between. It's a fine line.

14:57Chris Stark: But you know what he said? You know, in the Croatia game, I think it was a little bit at halftime, and he said there was an amazing speech. I think Declan Rice came out and said something about it. And he said, if we're going to lose, we're going to go out all gone. And he kind of contradicted himself because then obviously with Mexico, he suggested we were going to go out that way, and that's how we're going to go out. If we get beat three or four, that's what's going to happen. And then we didn't do it against Mexico. I kind of got down to 10 men. I totally understand why you would do that. But having 11 men and retreating, even though you were with your one-up, it kind of, he's gone back on his word.

15:30Gary Neville: You're right. He's been brave, I think, at every juncture in the tournament in terms of his substitutions. And for the first time last night, he took a step back in terms of, look, the only thing you, as a manager, the only message you can send on to your players in the second half of a game is with your substitutions. If you send on Saka, Madweki, Rashford, you're telling your team we're attacking. If you send on Nico O 'Reilly, Dan Byrne and start to retreat back. You're telling them that we're playing for a draw. You're sending them a clear message. So I played for a manager who used to take risks all the time.

16:02Gary Neville: He took risks all the time. He very rarely sat back in games. And the clearest message he could ever send us was when he used to put on two forwards, take off a midfield player and a defender, and you'd be like, we're going for this. He just knew you were going for it. So you're right, Crouchy. That's the bit that I think he will regret. We talk about the players' regrets this morning. He will look back at that and think, I did go against what I'd previously said. I did, to be fair, go into reverse, thinking that we could protect the lead. And as soon as they score, I thought Jordan should have saved it, by the way.

16:31Gary Neville: I don't think that goal should go in the back of our net. You know, it's not a pylon, but it's a long-distance shot with his sort of instep that goes halfway up the net, a yard inside the post.

16:42Chris Stark: It's kind of going away from him, but still not into the side net as such, maybe.

16:46Gary Neville: And I look at that and I think, you know something, could we go up to Enzo Fernandez quicker? Can Jordan save it? And then you're talking about a different game, but look, it was coming. It was like an avalanche of attacks. But you're right, Crouchy, he's going to get absolutely whacked for this. This was the guy that was brought in to be the game changer, to be the sort of guy who could get us over the line, the guy who basically had that ruthlessness in these big moments. And in the big moment last night, he hasn't got us over the line. So he's definitely going to get a massive whack, and he is getting a massive whack.

17:14But having been there, I feel for him,

17:18Gary Neville: because you're on that touchline and he's probably thinking, I think we can see this out with Dan Byrne. with Nico O 'Reilly, with Gaye, with Konza, with Stones. I've got Jed Spence. I've got great defenders on the pitch. I think they can clear their lines. I think they can get blocked shots. I think they can... I mean, how's he get a free header there? We've got three, four, five centre-halves almost on the pitch nearly. And he hits a free header in the middle of the box. And you're thinking... Which didn't happen in the previous two games when they defended for their lives. And it just, you know, Dan Byrne was always there or one of them got it away.

17:46Gary Neville: But do you know something? As a defender, you two played in, obviously, different areas of the pitch. Do you know when you're going back into your box and you clear it and then you don't shift up quickly that five yards. Excuse me, you're fucked. Yeah, it's coming back, isn't it? Honestly, when you're just ambling up and you just get into the edge of the box and then you're going back in a bit and then you're going... Once you start going on top of your goalkeeper in a game of football and you start losing that sharpness to shift up that five yards when you clear it, I think they then know that they can just start...

18:15Gary Neville: It's almost like a tide coming in. You ain't stopping it. And that's what it felt like. The momentum of the game shifted. They had to shift their legs up quicker but I suspect they were knackered. Of course. But then I got asked this question this morning about the Premier League so challenging. They had five of their players on that pitch that were McAllister, Enzo Fernandes, Lissandro Martinez, Romero and the goalkeeper. Half their team are playing in the Premier League. Half their team are playing in the Premier League, the same league as us. We can't complain about that.

18:44Chris Stark: The fitness levels I thought from them looked unbelievable. The last 20 minutes, we looked dead on our feet. Enzo was I think if you flip it now and you look at Argentina I think you've got to give them credit I thought that the way that they went about the game and they was always going to go around that we come out high to intensity the pressure was there but I think the game just played into the way especially when they were going to score the goals well Messi I mean he put three crosses in on the button before they scored I mean hit the post

19:09Gary Neville: Imagine if he does take off Jude and Harry and puts on Rashford and I don't know one of the other forwards and he didn't win we'd be killing him wouldn't we you've got to work very hard to be killed but I do know something them two because Drew just didn't quite look himself last night he was as quiet as I've ever seen him in the tournament and Harry we know Harry's not going to spring into attack we know he can play we know he's a great finisher but we did need legs and the problem was we didn't he couldn't take those two off he was almost fixed that he couldn't he had to believe in those two that were going to get that goal for him I still thought 1-1 a part of me or even at 1-0, you're thinking Jude or Harry are going to deliver here for us.

19:52Gary Neville: They're going to do something and they didn't produce. And if your big players don't produce in the biggest moments, that is a problem.

19:59Chris Stark: Well, I just want to look at the positives of the tournament as a whole and also with England. There were certain moments like Dan Byrne and Jed Spence. Obviously Jude, Bellingham and Harry.

20:10Gary Neville: What were the positives that have come out of it? Get into a semi-final. Do you know something? The reason that I don't think we can go into full kill mode this morning at all is because I think that if you said to me before the tournament we get to a semi, I'd say snap your hand off. I think the squad he picked, it was a counter-attack squad. I didn't think it could get past the semi-final, and that's what we said all the way through. I thought quarter-stroke semi. But the positives, getting to a semi-final, Jude, I think, unbelievable. Harry, obviously, is goal-scoring. Jed Spence, I think is a positive.

20:44Gary Neville: He's proven that he can play at the high level and that he can sort of defend one-on-one. And he's got guts. Just so he's got something inside him that you say, fair enough, well done to you. Dan Byrne, we know Dan Byrne. He's going to come on and head anything. But look, for me, not having Declan Rice in the tournament, which we've effectively not, not having him is a massive problem. I think Declan Rice fit, flying, rearing, just running all over everybody. Anderson's been in there, to be fair, I think pretty much on his own at times. I mean, he played midfield. and Declan's looked nowhere I love him to bits he's our best midfield player by a mile but he's been nowhere near it physically in this tournament whether it's through illness or whether it's through some sort of injury he's been nursing an injury

21:23Chris Stark: isn't he and he was really ill I mean I spoke to him in the camp and he had a few days off with a sickness and I mean I think he lost quite a bit of weight as well so we've all been in them camps where when that happens you're isolated from the camp then when you go in you feel like you're expected to just go in all guns blazing as well also what doesn't come across through the TV as well for the people at home is we were in the stadiums and like the heat. Last night was fine because the roof was on and stuff. But the Miami game was ridiculous. I was sweating and you couldn't, you know, I wasn't even moving.

21:56Chris Stark: We're no good in that way. No, it's tough. I'm not very good here, to be honest. Have you enjoyed it as a whole though? The whole experience at the World Cup?

22:07Gary Neville: I think, look, apart from the Balogun moment, which was mad, I think generally there's been a lot of negativity building up to Qatar, up to Russia, up to US tournament. Once the football starts, it's an amazing tournament. I think it's been unbelievable over here. I think the football's been very good. I think the games have been fantastic. I think the atmosphere in New York, speaking to someone this morning who lives here, and they were saying it's been like a festival and a carnival for the last month, and that's what a World Cup does. So I think it's been brilliant. I wish we were in the final because I think it would top it off, but I don't know, have you enjoyed it over there?

22:41Gary Neville: I've loved it. I've loved it, yeah, I've loved it.

22:43Chris Stark: It's been great. I don't think my missus has enjoyed having four kids on their own. But I've loved every moment of it.

22:52Chris Stark: How are you enjoying what you're doing at the moment, Gary? Obviously, you've got the overlap you're doing, ITV. Listen, I know how busy you are.

23:01Gary Neville: Do you ever stop? I do stop. I mean, look, ITV's in the summer every two years, which is amazing that once Sky let me do it and the ITV want me to do it, so I love doing the tournaments. They're absolutely amazing. Sky, I love the Premier League games. I love going to sort of the matches. I do the commentary, so I'm always in the stadium. I much prefer being in the stadium and sort of feeling the atmosphere.

23:21Chris Stark: You're doing a lot more co-coms now. Do you like co-coms? Because a lot of people at home won't understand that that is completely different to analysis. It is hard, isn't it? You're there to be shot down, aren't you, every time? I can't believe how much you get killed. I'll get killed. Yeah, like... Every week. I remember seeing... I love it.

23:37Gary Neville: It's amazing. The more you get killed, the more you get killed. for years, haven't they? Absolutely. Do you know something? If the Nevels can play for England, so can I. If the Nevels can commentate for Sky, so can I. You know what I mean? I just get on there every week to piss the nation off. That's my job. Let's piss the nation off every Sunday.

23:55Chris Stark: No, but you, listen, not blowing smoke up your arse, but you're very good at what you do. Like, you know, like you've been doing it a long time now and, you know, the way you break it down along with Cara as well,

24:04Gary Neville: like, it's very good. But do you know something? I think if you're passionate about football and you love watching it and you just can speak, you know, saying what you see, really, which is what commentary is. It is tough, I think, the commentary, because it's a thankless task in some ways. Have you done commentary before? No, no, no. I've never done it. I've done co-coms, yeah. So you have a little screen, don't you, that size of a laptop. I think people don't understand this. And you try to look at it like sometimes you've got a glare of a sort of light on it and you're trying to see a decision, like a penalty or a red card, and you think, oh, he's not touched the ball there.

24:35Gary Neville: then someone comes in on your lazy button and says, Gary's touched the ball. Oh, he has touched the ball. You're constantly sort of like, you can't see things in real life sometimes because it's just packed out, particularly on set pieces. It is tough cold commentary, but I absolutely love the thrill of it being in the game and you do get a whack every so often or every week, to be fair, because you're either, the amount of times you'll say, oh, you're biased towards that team or you're biased towards that team. I mean, Arsenal fans think I hate them, but I don't. I actually love Arsenal as a football club.

25:04Chris Stark: I get that from our podcast as well. Chelsea fans think you don't like them.

25:09Gary Neville: Liverpool fans think you don't like them. Everyone thinks you don't like them, but the reality of it is all you're trying to do is say it as you see it.

25:14Chris Stark: Because you're thinking on your feet, aren't you? It's instinctive, it's there. It's in the first half and you're doing back in the studio and you can sort of pre-plan what you're going to say.

25:23Gary Neville: The studio is so much easier than being on commentary. In commentary, you're having to call it in real time. And that's why I've got a lot more respect for referees since I started doing commentary, because we're getting a replay and still getting it wrong. and in the studio they might get 20, 30 times to see it and have a proper look at it discuss it between themselves have a look at the sentiment publicly and then come up with what their call is it's a lot easier to do half-time analysis than it is being in a co-composition but I do love everything that I'm doing I love watching the football the main thing is the football isn't it if the football's good then I think we're easy last night it was we don't enjoy the result but we love doing the game don't we we love watching the game and then you know obviously sometimes you don't get the result that you want

26:01Chris Stark: and how do you enjoy the second best football podcast this being the first oh my god well this is the oldest just something crouch what I must say to you

26:13Gary Neville: is when did you start doing this oh we're almost

26:15Chris Stark: 10 years now exactly

26:15Gary Neville: so you saw this before almost anybody I can't think of any did any footballer do your podcast before you I don't remember

26:23Chris Stark: I think I'll tell you what there was I think Jimmy Bullard did one with with Freddie Flintoff I think it was the Magic Sponge they were outdoors yeah which was good And why did you start doing it? What did you see? I'll tell you, it was a total accident, really. I did a book, and then the BBC came to me and said, you know, do a podcast to promote the book. And it was with Chris Stark and Tom Fordyce. Tom wrote my book, and Chris was on Radio 1. And, yeah, we did it to kind of promote, and then it just took off, yeah. And then I was, everything we were saying on the podcast, I was still playing at the time.

26:54Chris Stark: I'm on the bench, and I wasn't playing much. But, you know, people were repeating things back to me, you know like this and that and I was thinking this is this has got nuts and then yeah and it was enough really because I think I probably could have played one more year but I kind of I kind of went with this and this route

27:10Gary Neville: was yours to me yours was audio at the beginning was it audio only audio it's mad because even like four or five years ago when I set up the overlap I did it really to do sort of like video interviews yeah I never really did it from I never really got podcasts even four or five years ago and then I look at it now and I think those people who were sort of early like yourself I don't know how you you've done so well to see it. I didn't even see it four or five years ago, Crouchy, when I set it up. Obviously, in the last couple of years, I can see it now. That community that you build and that audience and that repetition of putting the podcast out at the same time each week and people listen to it.

27:43Gary Neville: I get it now, but I didn't see it as a business as I saw it more as just being something that I like doing. Whereas you've seen it, obviously, a lot earlier than I have, but I absolutely love it. Yeah, absolutely love it. I think it's, this to me is, it's not work, this. This is lads having a conversation. That's what I say every week to the business. No, but you think about it, you go into the pub after a game and mates, you know, men, women, families, and they discuss decisions, they discuss sendings off, they discuss managers' tactics. That's all we're doing. That is it, but you're doing it with a passion and a love for the sport and maybe a little bit of lived experience that we played the game.

28:23Gary Neville: and yeah, it's mad how people seem to love listening to them.

28:26Chris Stark: And how is it like with Wrighty and Roy and Cara? I mean, you've got a good team there and you seem to get on like really well.

28:34Gary Neville: I mean, it's absolutely key, isn't it, that you work with people that you trust, that you know that you can pretty much be open with and speak honestly and that, yeah, I think there's a trust between us, there's a respect, but also I think that we're willing to have a sort of what would be a debate and an argument with each other and get stuck in. and people like it and people like your podcast as well for the same reason that you're willing to because you trust each other to know that you can disagree it is an art to be fair to be able to disagree with people and not fall out and it seems to me now particularly in the world that every time there's an argument between two people from different sides there has to be some form of aggression with it they didn't have to be that way you can have that form of real sort of deep debate but then say okay well done shake hands we disagree on a point you know what I mean I think that's what the best podcasts are

29:18Chris Stark: Who's moaned the most out here? Is it righty or Roy? It's got to be a close one. I'd probably moan more than any of them.

29:24Gary Neville: I think I'm going to throw you in the mix. You played me a little bit crouchy. You know what I mean? It's you. It's you and the team are saying no. People might imagine Roy. Roy is really low maintenance. He doesn't say no to anything. So if we ask him if a guest, we always say to them, every guest that comes on, we'll always put it to them. They always say yes. No one really says no. I'd probably say no more than anybody. and yeah right they love it I think they genuinely like it just being in there and sometimes like you'll do an hour and they'll no just carry on we like it ask some more questions they're the best ones they just want to carry on and do things so yeah there's a real good energy about it and you know can't take it for granted because you just don't know how long it's going to last

30:04Chris Stark: what about guess wise who have you had on that you've really enjoyed and has there been someone surprised you and gone oh actually that was really boring Martin oh no sorry

30:13Gary Neville: no I was just going to say Martin O 'Neill is one of my favourite podcasts just the dynamic between him and Roy was really interesting. Ricky Gervais was unbelievable. I love him as well. Yeah. To have someone like him on that was just different and completely out of the blue. Ronnie O'Sullivan, Rory McIlroy, the first step with Rory was amazing.

30:31Chris Stark: That's similar to us. Because we're around football people and yeah, you get great football guests but you kind of know them. You see them. When you get someone from a totally different planet and they know about football, we had Rod Stewart on. That went to his house. It was so interesting. Sir Elton John, he was the one. His knowledge of football was unbelievable. He was telling us players that are in the Welsh third division, and he's emailing Watford saying, you need to have a look at this player. I've been watching him from LA in Welsh commentary as well.

30:58Gary Neville: But that's the good thing about it. If you can get people on who've got a crossover, a love of football, and just a little bit, obviously, personality, you can have a great conversation. We did Tom Brady a few weeks ago, and we loved that. That was the first time we've done it. Oh, no, we did JJ Watt, didn't we? We did JJ Watt as an NFL player, and I don't really know anything about NFL. I don't even watch the game that much, but it was just interesting listening to him in a different way. So, yeah, we've had lots of good guests on. Who's boring? No, we don't have to expose them. Tell us after.

31:28Gary Neville: I don't think anyone's been boring that I can think of. No. I tell you what, Luke Little was difficult in the sense... Well, you can have on us. He was 18 and he was so young and you just felt like he's so young that you think to yourself, like you know it was difficult in the sense that you just know he's so young and when I was young I wouldn't have been thrust into that environment it's quite difficult and quite pressurised he was brilliant on the podcast but it was difficult in the sense that he felt like you're bringing on someone you have to look after him to be able to look after him in terms of his age

31:57Chris Stark: Big Soul Man looked like it was a difficult one of him

32:01Gary Neville: Soul's a big character yeah well he is he is do you know what I mean have you had Soul on?

32:05Chris Stark: we actually have I think we have he's got opinion Soul yeah strong

32:08Gary Neville: oh yeah Soul will say it as in just yeah he will take everything with him

32:15Chris Stark: guys on the final Spain Argentina I'm looking at it from a Messi kind of point of view if Argentina go on and win it and Messi's obviously won it twice

32:22Gary Neville: yeah yeah

32:23Chris Stark: does that stake a real claim you've played with Cristiano you know the levels that he's at

32:27Gary Neville: that he becomes it's difficult to deny isn't it I asked a question last night actually on our podcast I said to them does this now mean that it removes all doubt even the Maradona question does it just take everything away they weren't willing to give that up right Ian Roy they were sort of saying Let's just see what happens Sunday. But I think if he wins Sunday, I mean, what he did last night was spectacular. It was like a... How do you deal with that aura and that presence on a pitch of someone who can just go and take a game by the scruff of the neck and do pretty much what they want with it?

32:59Gary Neville: It's difficult. I think he... Yeah, I've got no denial.

33:03Chris Stark: It scared me, that face, when obviously in the first half, when he was due and he just went... Oh, yeah, yeah. I was like, we poked the bear there.

33:10Gary Neville: What about when he put Harry Kane on his backside? You see that one? And Harry's strong, by the way. And he went, like, actually, that can't happen. He's everything. I mean, he's unbelievable. Absolutely incredible.

33:21Chris Stark: Just in that game, the lads here know and Crouchy knows that I'm one for missing goals. I don't know what you're like at home. Whether you just pop out for a cup of tea. What did you miss? The first England goal? I missed England goal. I was at the bar getting beers. Did you really? I swear. Ask these boys. Yeah, but that's because you're a bar a lot. That's why. It was my turn. Honestly, you couldn't write the script. Good timing. could not write the script, because normally I have to go for a tactical walk, and I go, go for a walk and we'll score. So I was at the bar, and as I was walking back, the cheer that went on, they all looked around at me as I was like, you just can't write the script.

33:51Chris Stark: Always happens to me. Guys, what we've got to do, going towards the Euros now,

33:56Gary Neville: what do we do? Well, the question I asked before the tournament, and I'm asking it really this morning, is what does he now do with Foden, with Palmer, with Gibbs White, with those lads that I think, and some of them are generational talents, Palmer's like, I do think Trent Alexander-Arnold, I need to mention as well. If we can't get Trent Alexander-Arnold, Foden, Palmer, those three in particular, who I think are talents that could live in any generation, if we dismiss them as talents and can't get them into a 26-man squad, and then we see us sort of not having the technical capability in the last parts of matches like we had last night in the biggest games against biggest opponents, I think a question has to be asked.

34:36Gary Neville: Because I did say before the tournament, we did our first episode in Manchester before we came out here and I said, I've seen this before with talents that I think would get in any other country's team like Brazil and Spain and we almost don't even put them in the team we don't even put them in the squad and I've seen us like Scolese obviously to be fair I don't think we looked after him, Prane maybe I don't think we looked after other players that maybe have that level of ability and technical quality but we've literally cast aside for this tournament I'm not saying they were brilliant last year these lads but they deserve to be in a 26-man squad So Cole Palmer can't get in a 26-man squad with his technical ability.

35:09Gary Neville: So do we need to bring back, does Thomas Tuchel need to balance the aggression that he wants in his team, the physicality? Does he have to bring in these technical players and take us maybe slightly in a different direction, which I think is where Gareth was trying to take us, and just evolve a little bit before the tournament so that we don't have a situation where we've got no players on the pitch who can pass the ball? Yeah. I mean, he didn't bring Kobi Manu on last night, and I'm not saying Kobi Manu is the answer for England's prayers, but he's the only midfield player I think England have got on the bench that can come on and pass it a little bit.

35:39Gary Neville: And he doesn't even come on to get hold of the ball and try and get us playing. So Spain, Argentina, they're technically better than us in pressurised moments. We've always fallen short in the big moments by dropping deep, not having the ability to technically play out. And I think until we get that, I don't think we win.

35:57Chris Stark: Yeah. I mean, who do you see winning it? On Sunday? Yeah, Argentina versus Spain. because when you talk there you talk about Spain and you know the team cohesion it's in their DNA they made France look like they did defensively they look very good they made France look like a pub team

36:18Gary Neville: honestly France I said if France that's unmeable I said if France don't win this tournament it'll be a freak they'll have let themselves down and they literally didn't get a kick hardly so Spain are just like a majestic team and just play you know the way in which they they pass the ball around but that energy and that spirit and that horribleness of the Argentinians and Messi, honestly, it is so 50-50. I would slightly go with Argentina because of Messi. Just the Messi factor of just basically that idea of him just, I'll do whatever it takes and I will deliver. I don't see how he doesn't. It seems to be written in the stars for him.

36:58Chris Stark: Yeah. All right. Well done, Couchy. See you later. Thanks for taking your time. See you later. Cheers.

37:12Gary Neville: If the world were like a sleep number mattress, everything would adapt for your comfort. Your coffee would never get cold. Your flight would always be on time. And your mattress would always respond to you and your unique sleep needs. Sleep number mattresses are designed to respond to your body and shift with your changing life, helping you fall asleep faster and stay asleep longer. To experience a whole new world of comfort, visit a Sleep Number store or go to sleepnumber.com. Sleep Number, to a good life's sleep.

37:46Chris Stark: Right, this is the part of the podcast where the production team come up with something new and novel for us to do. This particular occasion was darts with Morgan Rogers. Check this out. So boys, we've had a number of challenges on this trip. We have ridden a bucking bronco. Now it's time for a hand-by-car operation test. We've got a dartboard here and we've also got Morgan Magic Arrows. Oh, I love it! I'm in this. No, no, no. He doesn't want to be in it. He doesn't fancy it. You had an absolute stinker early against matches. They look good online though. Three ones, wasn't it? Good in the warm-up though.

38:30Very good in the warm-up. So I think what we'll do boys is we're going to start at 1-0-1, work our way back down. All four of us play. Sid, you've been practicing looking hot.

38:40Chris Stark: You go first, come on. Am I with you? Are we partners? We're going to do it individually. Individual? We're all on 1-0-1? Yeah. Oh wow. Who's got the calculator out there? Have you got it out guys? Yeah. Are we finished on double? Are we doing all that as well? Yeah, yeah. You've got to check out. We're just... Is it your first one to check out? Yeah. Just first one to check out? You've got five minutes to do it, has it? 17. 17. Is that... 24, 24, 24, 24, 24, 24. 7. 17. 17. 17. 17. 17. 17. finishing ball, finish it straight away. Come on Pete. Oh no, what was that? We're doing one or one. One or one.

39:23Chris Stark: It's a treble, 17 ball. With. 38 and three, three, four,

39:30five. .

39:30Chris Stark: We'll go back. Yeah. Five minutes. I'll tell you the other day. So what's that? Treble, 17. Treble, 17 ball. Treble 17 ball, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We've got six, we've got 15. And we've got.

39:49It's still quite random isn't it? Yeah at the moment. Oh! What's that treble? 15... Have you been? 2-6 you are. Scores in the doors guys?

40:01Chris Stark: I've got 64 remaining. 37 up 101. 64. 64. 64 is treble 16 double A. That was good. Oh! Oh.

40:17Chris Stark: Double 16. Oh, that's fine. What? Is that out? That's out. That's 64. Oh, he's won. You've done it. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, I can't believe it. Oh, my God. Come on, come and have a look. I can't believe what I've just said. He's a player. And I'm working out. I'm like, how's a 16? They said it was going to be, it was meant to be, I was going to go triple 16, double A, but I thought I'm going to spice up and go double 16, double 16.

40:46Chris Stark: Oh, okay. That concludes. Oh, listen. Hey. Thanks for coming, lads. Thanks for coming. He went first. We have another go, right? Go on, have a go. Yeah, go on in. If you get it. 39. Seven double. Oh, man.

41:08Chris Stark: You're the first time. Out. You're out. You're out. You're out. Gordon. Oh, man.

41:22Chris Stark: You haven't got a check out. Nice though. 66. Oh that's good. 66. How do I do this? I think we throw the first dive and work from there. Is that 11? Yeah, 55. What did you get there? 51 left. 51. Oh, that's not doable. Cheers, well done. Cheers, lads. Cheers, cheers. Best man winner, thanks. Thank you. Cheers. Nice one. I can't believe it. He had 64 left. He's gone double 16, double 16. I didn't even realise he's there. That was amazing. That's 64. Right, it's time to check back in at the Chumbawamba with Chris Stark. He's got the Blossoms. Hello, Crouchy. Yes, I'm here. Hopefully I'm coming through to you live wherever you are right now.

42:21I am here, not in the Chumba Womba this time. I've come to our favourite pub, the Devonshire. I am joined by Tom and Joe from Blossoms. Hello, boys. Hello. Quick word to Crouchy and Sid over in America. Hope you're having a wonderful time, boys. I've still not forgiven Crouchy for scoring that goal against City. Oh, really? Yeah. Let's get straight into it. What's the issue here? I mean, it was an unbelievable goal, wasn't it? It was like the Tevez era, wasn't it, when we just missed out on the Champions League. Yeah. Back at their moments, I think. But it was unbelievable. Harry Redknapp was the manager, I think, wasn't he?

42:52Yeah. Of Spurs. Would have been back then, yeah. Sad times. Yeah. It's all right. And Joe, you listen to the podcast a bit. I'm a big fan. I'm sad we're not in the Chamba one bar. I know, but the reason we've had to come here is basically the Chamba one bar is hotter than the sun at the moment. It's actually dangerously hot. And they said that we won't be able to open the window because of building works going on. Oh, wow. So we thought we might decamp and come to the devil shit here. We've had some good times. I wanted to sit in the seat. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. That would be an honour, though.

43:22Yeah, I mean, yeah. But I have to ask first, obviously. With his permission, you'd be allowed to sit in the seat. Yeah, exactly. I'd never just do that. Joe, I really appreciate that level of respect to the big man. I know it'll mean a lot to him as well. We will talk football. We also got to talk about your new album, Songs from the Wedding Cave. Oh, yeah. Which everyone's buzzing about at the moment. Yeah, it's gone. Very quickly got to ask, how did you get Maya Jammer in the video? We met her at the MTV EMA Awards. Yeah. Like a year and a half ago. Yeah. Because they're in Manchester and it was at the Co-op Live.

43:50So I think we got a token invite from being local, which was nice. I want to know, how often does this happen where you have to try persuade people? Who else have you asked in this situation? Have you ever asked Crouchy? Do you know what? Honestly, I've had a dance with Crouchy actually. Do you remember? Kasabian at Isle of Wight. Oh, yeah. You were there as well? he would no no i wasn't on the one where he's on stage not that one we were saying we've kind of we did we probably did about he won't 10 years of the band being very anti-social not making many do you know i think it's because we never moved to london we kind of stayed up north we didn't end up in the kind of circles maybe that you would end up you know meeting a lot of people because a lot of artists end up moving to london um you also like you're just like younger aren't you and a bit shy you don't really want to go up and say like i'm i'm this guy you know or whatever you just feel whereas i was saying we've been in our sociable area since we did the album gary because we asked we had like rick astley was in a few videos sean dyce was in a video how funny is sean dyce why is he turned into like this almost not a comedy character he's not a character he's just he's really just embracing everything i've seen it i think it's anyone who's in football but has like a slither of a personality it kind of rises to the top doesn't it do you You know what I mean?

45:04Because it's so media kind of trained in a lot of aspects. So when someone comes around with a bit of, like I said, personality, I think you end up gravitating towards them. You think, oh, they're interesting. Yeah, I mean, famously for us, Sean Dyche met Peter Crouch at the Isle of Wight Festival. Yes, that's where we met. And then signed him off the back of that. Oh, shit. So the negotiations were done in wherever the... In the JD tent. This feeling. see strange stuff goes down at festivals yeah that's why you dance we actually then met dies because he he said in an interview at like the idol like 2018 they were really good and we were like that's mad yeah and then we met him properly at a rick astley concert because he's a fan of rick and i think he'd met rick at glastonbury and then rick invited him to the gig we were by this point friends with rick and then we ended up in like the same box together and we were just speaking to Daish and he was asking us loads of stuff about the music industry and how you make records and we were just like asking him about the Premier League and all that.

46:10You know what I mean? It was kind of like a mutual. We wanted to know loads about his work and he wanted to know about ours. There's loads of similarities though with like weirdly football and music. Do you know what I mean? Like if you say like, I don't know, releasing an album feels like signing onto a new club and then like doing gigs feels like big games. Do you know what I mean? It's like Glastonbury's like your final. Do you know what I mean? I think that crossover is so prevalent. Yeah, yeah, it's weird. And I think you're right, with music and football, especially if you're a band like yourselves who are really into your football as well, being able to have that crossover is the best thing, surely.

46:44Yeah, of course, yeah. And City have been with us in terms of just getting us to games or just being amongst it, do you know what I mean? Inviting us, always asking to do stuff. And so, I mean, that's a bit of a pinch moment, do you know what I mean, when you're doing stuff for City? Do you know what I mean? I had a season ticket at City from being about 14 and my mum took me to Main Road. Like I've been, I've been a fan all my life kind of thing. And then we had a season ticket before the band, like when Aguero, the Aguero moment. You were there for that, Yeah, we ran on the pitch and Joe had, we were on like Vespers and that at the time and Joe had his helmet on the pitch.

47:17You know, like all like this mad kind of... Joe had his what? I had a helmet. I had a helmet on. No, we rode Vespers to the game and he took his Vespa helmet into the ground and then when the pitch invasion at the end he had this like Union Jack helmet on so on the telly we were like rewinding Union Jack helmet running around the pitch he's made it's going mad so but like it's full circle to then like get to do stuff for the club and that so it's kind of nice you know yeah on the new album you've got a song called Kardashians yeah can you talk to me about this please like what's the cracking after this yeah it's a tune album's out in October yeah yeah yeah it's probably my favourite song on the album to be fair it's basically i wrote the line we'd um we played a gig in tokyo well we were over in tokyo to play a festival but we spent new year there so me miles the keyboard player my wife katie and emily went to a karaoke bar on the years anyway went out obviously it was new year so got quite drunk then was hanging the next day and katie was watching the kardashians hung over in bed and I think I'd gone to the shop to like get us like some provisions or whatever.

48:27And I came back and she was crying at the Kardashians. So I just put into my phone, oh, you were so hungover. I caught you crying at the Kardashians, which I thought was an interesting lyric. And that's literally the hook line of the song. So it's literally because I thought the juxtaposition of, it's not something you'd associate crying with, is it? Yeah. It's not massive emotional TV, is it? It's basic reality TV. It's not Titanic, is it? it's the mad things you cry at when you're hung over. Exactly. That's so true. So that's what I wrote down and then I turned it into a song. So that's, and I also thought, and I'm just going to call the tune The Kardashians as well.

49:02So that's why. I've been in that situation. It's all those shows on a Sunday hit differently. I don't know if it ages me slightly, but. No, that's the sentiment of the song. Country file. Oh, no, don't. Antiques Roadshow is a killer. Antiques Roadshow. I'll do that thing on like Springwatch or something where they do like 10 minutes or like five minutes, just like noise. Do you know what I mean? of just like an ambient noise and you're it was the shock it was the shock of the ambient noise bloody on the fizzy water do you know what do you know what's really really gets you repair shop are you on that oh yeah that's always like coming with something you're like nah this ain't gonna work that's an evening show I think you're right those morning shows on the weekends can sometimes get you in a funny way there's a titchmarsh one which does exactly what you're saying and they do 10 minutes it must be of just photos that listeners have sent in or people are watching have sent in 10 minutes of like just Lance Cates and the birds and the old shit do it be a duty there's always like mint photos and then there's always an odd one that's a big shit it's like I think you've got a massive thing with this song like the stuff that makes you over emotional on the just catches you when you run over and you're just like no yeah so that was one of them what have been your favourite moments so far in this World Cup I mean the obvious ones are Mexico game isn't it Talk to me about that.

50:21We just can't. It's just so weird, isn't it? Because weirdly, the odds were stacked against us. Obviously, them, the Azteca. Do you know what I mean? All like the altitude memes were hilarious. But do you know what I mean? Everything. But then I was pretty confident going into it. Because I'm man for man. I was like, on paper, we are the better team. Do you know what I mean? It's like, and we've got an outrageous squad. So I was like, I can sort of see us doing something here. And I don't know. It's just. annoyingly we were on uh chris moiles's breakfast show at like 6 a.m the next day so i didn't stay because i was like we were next you say the next day you know about an hour or two later exactly and then we were debating it like do we stay up you try you did stay up a bit in the hotel then i was like i'm i'm a dick if i've had six hours sleep not a dick but you know what i mean like i'm not i'm i'm flagging i'm not as uh not as on there yeah yeah yeah i'm not always zingy it was it was weird because i'm watching it and then they came up and he's like oh it's been delayed an hour i'm thinking oh why i was buzzing when it was like oh it's been moved i bet you were as it's been moved to seven i was like please it was it was kind of ideal what was interesting about that whole time was as much for us over here it was amazing i guess for them it would have pushed the game into a you know a horrendous time to be playing yeah yeah and then i heard the prime minister got involved in moving that game really apparently so it's like the world cup of people getting involved in football this is it this is it what's your thoughts on all that oh this shouldn't happen yeah it's like everyone said it's how to delay a red card yeah do you mean it's just somebody doesn't know footballer do you mean like even after it's like how can a game like a red card affect a game later it feels like a simpsons episode but it's real life which is mad yeah what do you um what do you make of the halftime show for this final then i want to get your thoughts on this i only read that i think this was justin bieber and justin bieber busy justin bieber i think shakira burner boy bts um who else coldplay i think chris martin's organizing yeah do you know what it doesn't offend me that i i quite super quite super bowl do you know what yeah but i think it's the word the word it doesn't offend me because i just don't like i'm usually with all my mates and at half time you're just chatting at the like back of the kitchen eating pringles i'm not really like i think because it's in america it kind of feels like it's part of the spectacle in a way yeah yeah it does i'm not like overly doesn't like do my editing or anything like because like you said it's it's kind of funny that these huge artists come and do it but they're kind of just background aren't they yeah in a way like because no one's i think i think where people get funny with it is they're kind of like you're you're taking the focus away from the exactly which i do sort of understand because we've all grown up on a half times being you know uh recoup a sort of a big lad from the crowd spinning around 50 times and happen to hit the crossbar yeah and they win like 50 grand or something you're like that's class that's our entertainment that's our culture that would be imagine that on like that stage give all the fees for them artists to one person who can like kick i think that's my thing yeah If he did that in like the FA Cup final, then I'd be like, this is too far.

53:36Yeah. The World Cup final, I'm kind of like... World Cup final in America, one-off. It kind of makes sense. Tom's been clever here. He's looked after for ourselves for the future. If we ever get asked. I mean, because I imagine the payday's good. We can't rule that out. So you're saying you're ruling yourself out the FA Cup final. I'd be like, are you sure? Are you sure you want this? Wait there, didn't we play a rugby game once? yeah it's always a bit mad it is mad them gigs are the worst gigs as well no one's there for you do you know i mean it's like like i imagine it's like the same as when like comedians do a corporate go you know when when people aren't there for you and you're doing something like that it's always tricky as you just think you're just playing look around going i've just sold a bit of my soul yeah do you know i mean like no one actually cares like we've been asked a few times to do like things just sitting and we're just like no and that's when we came we came up with an idea tom or you do i think it's kevin de bruner at the arena and it was like yeah he just basically hires the arena out people go and he just pings balls to people in the crowd and I reckon people go and watch it but you see that would be great I'd love to see it'd be like it's kind of like a darts energy do you know what I mean and the bride just comes on and they go like seat row you seat 103 and a spotlight comes on and he just he just pings the ball to them this crowd fest do you know what I mean like this is the idea how much is crowd fest I paid 30 to watch that.

55:03And I think you would. Yeah. Kevin De Bruyne at the arena. It's a good name. Do you know what I mean? SJM, if you're listening. Yeah. I think Crowds Press could do it though. We were saying supported by like Grealish. Do you know what I mean? And then like De Bruyne. Or do you know what I mean? You can even have just like a youth team. You can make this happen. You're doing the show at the co-op. So why don't you guys embrace this as part? I'd argue everyone's willing to chip in another fiver for Kevin De Bruyne. Yeah, yeah. Wow. Yeah. I wonder if De Bruyne would look for it. Does it need to be...

55:30Does this rely on De Bruyne? We're thinking like someone who can literally like thread the needle. Yeah, I mean like De Bruyne is a man in it. Do you know what I mean? It would be good. It would be good. I've never seen that in a gig environment. Even like just Kevin De Bruyne at the arena, just the poster. I can see it. I've got to be honest. I do find sometimes the technique when you see artists like yourselves kicking balls off the stage into the crowd, there's some horrendous text. Yeah, it's difficult. That was the Soccer AM thing, wasn't it? Luckily, we were all right. but you know when you go and soccer sometimes you see someone you're like but then I like sometimes even like the comments afterwards you're like you know what someone said to you he dresses like my gran but kicks a ball like Stevie G yeah because we scored that should have been negative that should have been negative YouTube comment of the week I was like it's good do you know what I mean I do I score and there's that much pressure I think Fener's afterwards goes like oh what a goal and you hear me do the most ridiculous laugh it's like did you score?

56:26Yeah because I'm just so happy have scored these that much did you score oh it was joe charlie and me and we all went back to back and scored the volleys no no bands ever done that well yap's down was on afterwards and he grabbed me and he went i better score he was fuming he was like if i miss this i'm gonna look an idiot i was like a backhand the compliments okay you look at the way you use look and if i miss i miss that i think you're right and it's similar to the to the scoring the golden soccer m i scored as well horrendous technique like everyone hammers your technique underneath yeah it's like goal's a goal please exactly are you enjoying uh how england fans have really embraced wonderwall as a as a song yeah it feels like it's been quite natural the whole thing yeah i mean it's yeah you're dreaming still of a blossom that's what you can come on our tunes show me it makes sense it's kind of like because it's city had kind of had a bit of like in like the dressing room after the games they play it and i think it's probably just obviously put it through the PA and then it's caught fire and I think when them things happen naturally it's nice and it is it's like the unofficial anthem in it of like the last 30 years or whatever but it's funny how it's taken so many years for this to be like as as passionately sung by fans yeah almost as if it's a chant I think they've got I think this this they've got behind the team way more since the Gareth Southgate era though I'd say so growing up like for us even though yeah what they call it like the golden generation obviously we were young watching that but there was still a disconnect i think with the fans and maybe in the players and because they always kind of unachieved didn't they on like a national level whereas now they've kind of broke that barrier of going do you know what this something could happen here yeah and it and the players maybe have kind of i'm thinking there's less kind of it's like even though you've got superstars in the team it kind of they feel like a unit don't they yeah it's happening more though wouldn't it like that sort of player crowd interaction isn't as like like you were saying that disc and like the norway the row do you mean a few things like i've started to do things like little things after games which are i think it's that thing again back to earlier on about the personality in football whereas when something natural happens and it and it works then people resonate with it because you think oh that's what we do down the pub if that came on and it's and it's like two in the morning everyone's going to be singing it aren't they whereas they've kind of captured a bit of that spirit yeah in like a a like a court not corporate but like a in the footballing world you don't always see that do you that's kind of i think what i love about is the fact it's not a football song yeah it's almost the key to making a football song now is to not make not do yeah yeah i think that's where we're going wrong i'm thinking too much about football have you got one in the locker no i don't believe you no do you actually we were saying this the first ever tune you wrote oh yeah my first ever entrance into writing songs was a year eight at school world cup 2006 and there was a task set for the class go go you know write a song about the world cup and that was the first song I ever wrote do you want to give us a blast oh there's a piano there no do you know what this is class hang on a minute Tom hang on hang on a minute Yeah, they go up and break it.

59:40It's quite... Tom needs a guitar behind you. No, but this was like the music to it. I'd learned like that rock, that shit. Yeah, this is great. That's what it did. And it was like Rooney in Group B, and then the chorus, I think went... I can't remember the chorus. Oh, no! No, no, no, no! Come on, try it. You can. You can do this. Come on. did some of the this is our chance to shine don't worry that cup will be mine that's kind of the thing just go on I think that could come back begrudgingly I've got the chords no one's done a I also think there's something quite nice about the fact that you're it's like a victory for year 8 you because you've gone on to do so so well obviously yeah it's my thought right so it's it's this year eight football fan having the same dreams as a 28 year old football fan yeah yeah good job i'm not on gold i'd be crying though no yeah no you're right i often think the the key with writing a good world cup song is everyone's doing it for england to win but where's the song for when you lose yeah and i thought of a song called balls of disappointment and and i i think like might have been a similar age when i first started thinking of this song um and actually i think on a personal level it would hit a bit different it's been quite a year but the um but yeah there's something in in that sort of emotional one that can go over a montage as well because my earliest memory is is green day time of your life when england went out and then there's stop crying your heart out yeah that was that was a classic yeah those montages live with you yeah you could just you could do like an a and b side couldn't you do you mean do like a if you win b if you lose genius um i'm hearing that the lads in america uh we need to go back to them in the studio so uh quick plug for the album songs from the wedding cake yeah yeah out in october going on tour in november tour in november any tickets left or not not at alley pali in london not in manchester second night in manchester there's a a couple left, and then some left in, where else are we playing?

1:02:02Birmingham. Go Glasgow. Yeah, Glasgow. Go to Glasgow. And then on your to-do list, the Kevin De Bruyne at the co-op. Yeah, so anything you can do, sort that out. And Crouchfest. Call up at some point. Yeah, that's fine. Ideal, boys. Perfect. All right, boys, back over to you in America. Wave. Oh, sorry.

1:02:28Chris Stark: this next part of the podcast is uh supported by paddy power uh it's the big world cup fixture i've got a letter sid another one yeah i get this wrong every time it's the minister of mischief or the minister of mayhem one of those yeah you still don't even know I say it different every time. So anyway. He says, Hi, 1139 Tom and Sid's. I like that. I told you I could be mine. 1139. Crouchy, congratulations on your legacy cap. A genuinely beautiful moment, paired with some slick interviews with England's finest. Yes. For a moment, I wondered what had happened to the Crouchy video in love and where this pod was heading.

1:03:08Chris Stark: But 15 ,000 calories, one eating challenge, and many horrific sights later, You were rapidly back on brand. We know. Right then. We've got two rounds to settle, starting with France versus Morocco, the land of the free chaos card. Gave complete freedom over your picks, and let's just say they told me everything I needed to know. Crouchy, the big man, came out swinging with a huge 34-1 shot. Whoa. Going all out attack to make up the points, but sadly it didn't work, as we suspected. It wasn't even close. Oh, no. Three points for France to win, but Morocco were nowhere near it. And Sabari didn't even make an appearance.

1:03:48Chris Stark: He didn't? Yeah, who I had first goal, I think, or two shots since I didn't even play. I'd have expected a little more from Fox's Finest, pundit, but it wasn't to be. Tom, an 8-1 bet builder. And France to qualify and Abappe to score first, both landing. That secured six points. I thought that would have been less than that. it's uh pretty vague but go on yeah it's pretty vague yeah a safe pair of hands this podcast can always rely on i do wonder how these two will cope when you're gone uh and then mr steven sidwell i gave you a i gave you complete freedom a uh a smorgasbord of market what a word but you responded with the betting equivalent of bread and cheese not even any butter i thought mine was good No, it was pretty like...

1:04:40Chris Stark: What, above seven corners and both teams to score? Combined price of four to one. Was it really? On an accumulator. It's not great, really. Shows me you'll do absolutely anything to get over the line, even if it means playing it painfully safe. Annoyingly, it worked. Seven points for calling Mbappe any time. Seven plus corners and half landing France to win. And BTTS... Both teams to score. Sorry. Should have known that one. Add the five-point land of the free bonus as a game week winner. That's 12 points. Oh, that's big for me. That's got to put me back in the game. It looks that way, mate, yeah.

1:05:19Chris Stark: Then came Norma versus England. More points were there for the taking, and I'm not sure if you were still digesting that food challenge or what, but somehow between the three of you, we managed a grand total of zero points. No way. Yeah, that's what we do. Don't get out of the overlap, do you?

1:05:40Chris Stark: Zero points. Frankly, less said, the better, which I totally agree with. Yeah, that leaves us Crouch on 33, Sid's on 47, and Tom on 50. Ooh. So basically, the World Cup final is you versus Tom. And I am Cape Verde. Well, no, you, well, what have we got to come? You don't know what he's going to bring up, so. Three points to separate the top two, and the race is very much alive. Right. Crouchy is some way adrift. But this has never been an ordinary predictions league. And with one final Paddy Power Chaos card, even the unthinkable remains possible. Your Chaos card is called the Hail Mary. We love a Hail Mary.

1:06:17Chris Stark: We certainly do. Five bonus points to the game week winner and five points deducted from the loser. Play it safe and protect what you have or take a risk and go for the win. And your final Paddy Power big fixture is, of course, Spain versus Argentina. It's the final itself. Doesn't get much bigger. Best of luck, lads. the Paddy Power, Minister of Mischief. Please gamble responsibly. So that could be a big swing, that. The winner of the game, he gets plus five. The loser gets minus five. So can I even come back? I think I can, yeah. So you can... Come back stronger. If a couple of yours come in, you'll get the points, and then you might get the plus five.

1:06:57Chris Stark: Ten point swing. And I... Yeah. This could be... I mean, this is... New York's insane. It's louder in the air than it is on the road. is this the city that never sleeps is it New York the city never sleeps there we go look at the big nod there let's like of course it is of course it is we'll give that we'll put that to the test as well we certainly will okay so with Tom Ford obviously he's on a different time zone we will get his take on what he thinks I hope so he's the leader he is the leader yeah it's the final yes what's your take on it Sid we've got Spain versus Argentina. A really difficult one to call.

1:07:38Chris Stark: I think this is a really difficult one to call. Argentina have got the Messi factor, for sure. Spain have gone a little bit under the radar a little bit. I think everyone woke up when they demolished France. Dispatched France. They dispatched France. They didn't get much of the ball. Yeah. Okay, so I am going to go for a 1-1 draw. Oh. after 90 minutes. And then I'm going to go for a player to be carded. Let's go Rodri. And then a player to have two or more shots on target. Let's go Enzo. Okay. I'm going to go with a 2-1 Argentina win in 90 minutes. Late again. Yeah. I am going to go for a card, Enzo Fernandez.

1:08:33Chris Stark: Yeah. And I am going to go two or more shots on target. Olisabal.

1:08:42Chris Stark: Olisabal.

1:08:46Chris Stark: Olisabal. I can't wait for the Minister of Mischief or Mayhem to get on that one. Olisabal.

1:08:56Chris Stark: I'll tell you, I was fluent in Spanish. Sounds like that was on the menu last night. Like a young Anthony Gordon there, wasn't I? Reminds you I'm hungry Should we go for a tapas? And I'm going to put in Tom's prediction Right now Curtsy P on the MIC Notorious SID It's nice to see you boys Can't pretend I haven't been missing you heaps You know what it's like Shall we agree that we're not going to talk about that game on Wednesday Until we're sitting together with a cold beverage Yeah, sounds like a deal Let's instead turn our thoughts to Sunday's World Cup Final Here's what I think is going to come to pass.

1:09:34The game will be won by Spain. They will beat Argentina by three goals to one. You heard it here first. Okay. In terms of a player to have two more shots on target, there's a young player, young talent who's caught my eye. You might not have noticed him. I really think there's something that tells me. He could go on to be a really, really impressive player. He's a young guy called Leo Messi. You mark my words. In terms of a player to be carded, well, before the game on Wednesday that we're not talking about, I had the feeling that Argentina would not just excel in the arts of S-Housery, but in the arts of S-Mansionery, in the arts of S-Palisserie.

1:10:14That's what it turned out to be. We saw cards for the two centre-halves, for Romero and for Martinez. I'm expecting pretty much the same thing, at least in the first half of the final. so on the basis of what happened at the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium many times last season a card will go to Mr Romero boys enjoy the final hasta luego

1:10:43Chris Stark: all right Sid, listen, great to talk to Gary there class isn't it? yeah, speaks well, speaks sense if you are watching us on YouTube then one of the lights has gone out so if me and Sid aren't looking our glowing normal self then that's the reason why we've lost power or something pretty standard for our podcast well it is really yeah I mean we've we've chose this backdrop which is fantastic but the the sound's absolutely useless the power's tripped and but the location is top class the audio experience is dog shit rather than that yeah sad news about England Sid but honestly I don't know this third and fourth I just don't get it at all the game yeah like in general like what nobody wants that what are we getting out of that no nobody wants that especially the players as well and the fans I mean I don't know what fans might even go to that but listen we're in New York so we'll we'll enjoy this for a couple of days no doubt no doubt don't really want this to end no so I might go to the third and fourth

1:11:53Chris Stark: but we've still got one more record i believe yeah on the final so there we go we've got one more hurrah we're not fucking leaving we'll see you there