Tony Pulis & Mick McCarthy: “The Game’s Gone” — Old School Gaffers vs The Modern Game

0:00This podcast is part of the A-Class Creator Network. Hello and welcome to that Peter Crouch podcast with me, Peter Crouch, Notorious SRD and Chris Stark are with me. Yeah, we're just going to start the little bit of the intro here on a remote record. Sid's thought he was upside down a minute ago. How are you looking now, Sid? Are you back stronger? Honestly, if I do this, no, yeah, if I do that, I'm in line. yeah it's weird yeah i'm sideways i'm just gonna carry on doing this way i mean last time chris you were in the baby station pose and now chris now sid's upside down i don't know what i think i think so so basically i think today guys what what we're going to do is we're recording a little bit here that's going to be the start of this podcast we're actually going to do a reverse planet earth me and crouchy were just talking about this i think we want to quickly explain to you the makings of this podcast you know at the end of planet earth where they do a little bit and they explain the the magical process the many years it takes to get the incredible shots what we're doing here at the start of the podcast is just explaining our process today um because we are on zoom again we are a bit remote just to get the first bit of the podcast out of the way.

1:22SIDS is upside down. I'm upside down. I don't know. SIDS, but is the problem here, because you keep cutting out as well, is the problem here, your Wi-Fi? What's going on? Let me kick everyone off the Wi-Fi. Oh, I love it when we do this. Chris, do you remember when we did it to Andy Robertson?

1:45One of my finest moments on this podcast is when we told Andy Robertson to tell his missus to turn Netflix off.

1:58How's your day been, mate? Yeah, my day's been all right. Whilst we wait for Steve, mate, my day's been all right. I went to the premiere for Wicked last night. Took my little girl to that, which was good. I don't really go to many of those things. So I never, I always feel a bit out of place with them. But it was quite, it was quite good. And to be honest with you, It was a lovely experience because she really enjoyed it. And there was this great moment where Ariana Grande walked right past us and came and said hello. And Cynthia Rivo came and said hello as well. So I'm absolutely flying on the dad points at the moment.

2:36But it was a very, very sweet moment. Yeah, that is a nice moment. I mean, I had a similar day myself today. I actually went down to Tottenham Hotspur's training ground and instead of Ariana Grande saying hello, Phil Foden said hello. And so did Bakayo Saka and Jordan Henderson. Yeah, I went down there and met some of the England lads before their game on Thursday. Yeah, it's a joy-born experience, actually, just with M &S. I got a chance to kind of play a little game with them and all good fun and good spirits. Decent. That's good. How is it for you when you do that then? So when you go into the England set up, right, do you feel that you're a good influence on them?

3:26Like do you feel like – is it a bit like – I'm trying to think what this would be like in my world. Is this a bit like when you go to your old school or something? Yeah, I know what you mean, yeah. It was interesting just kind of seeing how the dynamic of the lads and stuff now, you know. and, you know, them all coming in, it was quite a lot of media stuff going on and I suppose I'm on the other side of it now, you know, like, whereas before it was, you know, like, oh, we'll go down as a team and it's something you had to do. You know, I'm one of those that's kind of waiting for the lads to come in now.

4:02It does feel a bit strange. I just kind of sat with, you know, other journalists were there and it feels like I'm kind of part of that. I've kind of got my foot in a bit of both camps, if you like it must be a totally different vibe because we spoke about this before and when you was playing you always said that other players always felt that the press was sort of out for them a little bit whereas now it all seems like it's all together and it's a good culture do you know what I mean? yeah it's definitely it's definitely better than it was I think it was it was very much kind of us and them now it feels definitely like they come into a room and kind of everyone's on the same page a little bit now uh i'd have lovely chat with thomas tucho actually um i've got yeah just on the way out i saw him and he's getting on a golf buggy from from training to go somewhere else and he stopped and had a chat it was it was really it was a really good chat i really enjoyed his company yeah would you would you not see yourself in a bit of a role to kind of i don't know not not coaching per se well maybe a bit of coaching but to be involved in that set up in some capacity would you like that yeah I'd like you know when you're there you just forget how kind of relaxed it all is you know you just assume that it's just like pressure cooker all the time and I think there is a lot of down time and players definitely around the training ground environment are a lot more relaxed than when you see them on a because I've been so used to presenting on a match day you know you forget like around a training ground everyone's just normal kind of having a joke, having a laugh and getting on with the, and obviously very serious when they're training, but around the place, it's definitely a really relaxed harmonious atmosphere, because listen, I'll be honest with you, I don't think I've I haven't really spoke to Thomas Tuchel much, but you know, just getting him away from the game day, he was so relaxed and so open and willing to talk it was a really nice kind of chat with him What was he saying?

6:08Was it Any football chat, Crouchy, or was it a bit of life or a bit of both? A little bit of everything, you know, a little bit of everything. Yeah, like, you know, I don't want to go too deep into it. It's a private conversation, but it was, I really enjoyed the chat. Do you know what I mean? It was like a good, it was for a little while as well. And, you know, he didn't have to make the time to say hello, but he did. You know, we had quite a long chat. It was good. God these are the same Sids this is the same conversation tone of voice and everything is when and then next the week after he'd signed for Burnley and part of me is thinking now it's like what's been discussed you know there was the Henderson callback came didn't there I mean I can't rule this out at this stage two up top two up top well I just think at the moment you've got Harry Kane and yeah who else yeah I'm available and did you tell him that I just told him I'm growing attached I'm like a young Ian Rush I think he got the impression you were available yeah I think he probably did get the impression yeah oh well that's exciting no Crouchy that's great listen you both you both have represented the football world wonderfully in the past seven days obviously I've got nothing to offer than than um having gone to the wicked premiere but that doesn't really further the cause for this podcast i don't think and sid you did the fa cup draw we haven't had a chance to debrief on that yet what a legend and i also don't think this has kind of got the love that it deserves yeah because you've made my life with what you've done the actual fa cup draw this is dream come true stuff for me i've missed slightly weird but explain to everyone what ended up happening so well a dream for you and a dream for me so I'd done the FA Cup draw the second round draw um up at Tamworth the other week and um I was a little bit of a late shoe or shoeing because it was meant to be Robbie Savage but he couldn't do it because he'd already taken part in the previous round so I was absolutely buzzing he was cupped tied he was cupped tied exactly for the draw and obviously we done the show a couple of weeks ago and I said listen I don't want to go full obviously Crouchy and do what he done and I don't want to make a mockery of the institution of the English game but you know what can I do is um there's something you know to acknowledge the boys and we we sort of said about holding one ball out and uh just sort of maybe giving it a kiss or a nod and there's obviously Crouchy you've done this before and there is someone from the FA there and they are hot on you you've got to literally get the ball turn it around you can't do any sort of signs or anything you like anything towards your face if you drop a ball it's a re a redraw and I was gagging to get the number one ball in honour of you Chris and in the rehearsals Jolian Lescott got the one ball and in the real deal I got the number one ball and I was absolutely buzzing it was amazing mate honestly and the shout out as well was phenomenal you know dedicated to the podcast to Chris Stark phenomenal scenes Zed so I loved it just a big tick really just a big tick for your performance in that draw everyone from the podcast the podcast community salute you sir brilliant my absolute honor loved it and chris it was a pleasure pleasure no you you've done so well you did so well to actually commit to it and with confidence as well dedicate the number one for it was it was a big moment good work um just a quick one on the paint situation uh chris i can see behind you now it looks like almost like i wouldn't say it's a tan cock shade but it's more of a i I don't know, a kind of greeny, a greeny colour maybe.

10:23Very chic. Yeah, it's like a green cock, if you will, isn't it? Yeah, perhaps. But I've been in touch, Chris. I've made some suggestions about getting us a potential tan cock coloured paint. Crown Paints, we've reached out to Dulux, Farrah and Ball, all the big dogs. But Valspar has always been our favourite of the paint companies. and they feel like they could maybe produce a Tancock shade for us in their next range. So Team Valspar. Love that.

11:05Just so we're clear on this, you're saying there's potential here for Valspar to be producing, dare I say it en masse, a shade of Tancock that will be commercially available to any podcast listener? Potentially, yes. Yes, if you do want to get a tan cock, Valspar. I mean, it's still early days on discussions, but if anyone's looking to paint a particular room and fancies a tan shade of cock, it may be available from Valspar very soon. So what is the actual scenario with this then? Have we got to pick a colour for tan cock, or has that been chosen? Is that one that's going to be similar to the one in Chris's background?

11:47How is he going to work, Crouchy? These are all ongoing discussions at the moment. So it's a bit too in and fro. You can't just develop a paint, you know what I mean? There's lots of loopholes that you just go through to eventually create it. It's like when you come up with a new kind of medicine, you know, there are procedures to go through. Okay. You can paint on the shelves. Okay. We'll get there. beautiful right lads these are we've got a couple of guests today a couple of legends football we are Football Heritage and I'll class both of these fellas as Football Heritage one of them I know really really well one of them wants to ring Sid's neck ask the question Sid Crouchy it can't get any worse can it?

12:36it can

12:44Right, Mick, Tony, thank you very much for coming on the pod. I don't give up my chair often. No. Yep. I've given you my chair. This is the first time. The gaffers are on, aren't they? But this is an unusual situation, the way that we're all on. If you aren't able to watch this, we're all on the same sofa, us three. We've got the two legendary managers in front of us. And it's almost quite intimidating. What I imagine it must be like for you boys when you go in and see the gaffer, except there's two of them two of the baggers two of the baggers well thanks for having us on it's an absolute pleasure to have you on great introduction that man you guys are you're doing a podcast together right how's it going it seems to be going alright we've had some great guests on notably you this morning because I was the first player to come and spill the date on tone you didn't do it that much though it was a bit of a love in I had to stop it I seriously had to stop it I paid him a fortune.

13:43That is true. I told him to get a room at one point. It was awful. But it's been great to have you on. We've had some great guests here. We really have. I think the great thing for us is that we've had our careers, you know, we've had and enjoyed it all the way long and had long careers as well. So it's nice to reflect, but it's nice to reflect with football people who actually went through those eras. You know, I think you talk to people now and they talk about what goes on, which is completely foreign to what we had when we were managers. So it's been really, really nice to have a laugh, talk about different things and enjoy ourselves making it.

14:23Yeah, we've been doing it quite a while, haven't we? We've been having some great guests on. Said yourself today, which is great, we've had a player on. But the rest of us being managers, it's just been great chatting to other managers, similar things. We're not journalists, we're just having a laugh. And three hours has flown by that we've been on. It's been fantastic. have you two always been friends like when you were playing teams were playing against each other have you just no never when they're playing against each other mutual enemies yeah but we've always got Mick has always come in for a drink and I've always gone in for a drink yeah and I think that was the tradition of British managers anyway mutual respect yeah mutual respect win lose or draw as well yes and still could go and enjoy the company even if you've had a slap in yeah and I think I guess now we've met each other even more we're fairly much on the same line of how we played how we managed how we treated people the way that we did it the work ethic we expected from everybody and then you do other things differently but we've got a lot in common that's for sure just let's address the elephant in the room if you don't mind me you tried to sign Steve and Sidwell when he was at Wolves did you just talk us through that story yeah I did I got told I hope you tell the same story I hope you tell the same story as he did in the taxi here we go absolutely yeah so

15:47I'd found out Steve we could get him on loan obviously who was your agent tell me your agent Eric Eric so Eric's on we can get him up there to you because he's not playing he's had the custard pie where he is at Villa serious custard pie can't get a game I've got him on come on come and play with me you'll be in every week you'll be fabulous and by the way I was delighted to didn't think that you were going to come and play for us. Get him up. He's having his medical. I think you'd been on the running machine and done that. And then Eric is being a bit elusive, is Eric. I'm trying to get a hold of him.

16:21So trying to tie him down. So like you wear the, Eric, Eric, wear the, he's Eric. He's out of the car park and he's on the phone. And if you've got an agent, you'll know, Tony, if you've got an agent. It's gone missing. It's gone missing. He's on the phone. there's something something going on so Eric comes to me says I just had a phone call yeah so what I'm trying to get a hold of you I want to get this done I don't know the phone call's about Steve and Mark Hughes it was Mark Hughes wasn't it yeah Mark Hughes has been on Fulham want to sign him I said what's he going to do then well he's getting offered a better deal it's like a three year deal he wants to sign down there I said we better go and see him then haven't we so going to see him I walk in and he's on the bench I said aren't you get off that fucking bench get out my fucking chair off the ground fuck off and he's looking at me he's almost trying to you know reason with me that well you know and all that and of course i went now listen i don't blame you to be fair we were bottom of the league full and we're doing all right but i i couldn't let him just off and say oh okay you've had your war i I said, you've had your medical, we've done all that, now fuck off out of here.

17:36And then I said, by the way, I don't blame you, good luck, because we're doing all right. It weren't even the fact. I couldn't get away with that. It weren't even the, like the money, actually the money was irrelevant. Oh, you told me this story, it was all about Nick, wasn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, the money was absolutely irrelevant in terms of going to Fulham. Because I remember you saying, you had family back down in London, and he was like, look, I get it. But you did say fuck off. I think the terms was if I could throw you head first at this so I'll give you I'll give you the option to walk yeah but at the end of it I did you know acquiesce to it all I thought he was making the right decision for himself because he signed a three year contract but I was raging you know that you've got somebody and you're going to get him signed or you've got a good player like that no they always song for me that's great was there one Clare Tony, you thought you had through the door or what?

18:34Someone big that you tried to sign that didn't materialise? One that definitely slipped through the net was the left back who went on to Chelsea and played a lot of games, the Spanish lad. Big tall Spanish lad. Oh, I can't think of his name. It was Alonso. Alonso. We actually had him in the football club. And it didn't materialise for one reason or the other. But we had him. He was desperate to sign for us. His dad had come up. I think his dad was a very famous player as well. He played for Real Madrid and granddad as well. Well, with regards to your management careers and you've had long management careers, what would you say was the best spell for you both?

19:16I think everything that I did in respect of management, whether it was good or bad, I've been very, very, well, lucky and privileged. See, football, for me, like I say, I come out of South Wales. There was eight of us living in a little terrace house right down the dock. Four boys slept in one bed, mum and dad in a little box room, and my sister slept in another room. So everything I've experienced, as soon as I went across the bridge on, you know, the train to Bristol, as soon as I signed at 16, I just wanted to give it everything. I actually sat on the train and thought, I'm not letting this go.

19:54I'm going to fight to the nail to keep this going. because like we all were, I was just absolutely besotted with football. Nothing, I didn't care about anything else. I was useless at trying to concentrate on anything in school. I just wanted to play sport, just wanted to be out on the playing field. And I just, you know, I don't, I'm not one of them that looks back with any animosity or regret. What I did, I did. And how I did it, I did it. I did it the way I wanted to do it and not maybe as other people wanted me to do at times, which caused me a few problems. But no, I've got, you know, I'm sat here now with Mick and yourselves.

20:32You know, it's been an absolute wonderful, wonderful time. 68 in a month's time or just over a month's time. You know, what a life I've had. I've had a fabulous life. I just concur with that. I'd agree with that. You know, similar things. Football, all my life. Joining Barnsley at 16. All my teachers and my dad telling me I probably wasn't good enough and love that proving them wrong. just going through it everywhere I went I've enjoyed so Barnsley Man City Celtic I went to Lyon it didn't that didn't you know was I up for Lyon yeah I was I loved it I'd love to stay there I'd have my knee operated on when I was at Celtic Millwall everywhere I've been I've enjoyed every single club whether it's been playing or management and tried to make the best of it management career though was got the player manager job at Millwall you know 32 wow We're behind 32, yeah.

21:29God bless Taff, Ian Evans, because without him, I wouldn't have been sat here now with a thousand and odd games. Because he nursed me through that, definitely. But everywhere I went, I've enjoyed it. Best parts, you know. Sunderland getting promoted, Wolves getting promoted, Premier League, the World Cup. Qualifying for the World Cup was the best of all. How does that differ between being a club manager and an international manager? Like, did you enjoy it the same? Oh, international manager's a bit like that compared to... but you know, I missed, I missed the day today when I first got it. I'm only, I'm 36 when I got it.

22:03I wasn't old enough to be doing 12, 14 games a season. I want, and I'd go and watch games and I'd be watching players and wishing I was down on the track and doing that. But nevertheless, I thoroughly enjoyed the job. It was great. You both went into management quite early, like in your careers and lives. Did you know your style of play like straight away or was that something that you just learn on the job learn on your feet I was like I said I was at I had a bad injury when I was 21 that kept me out for a year and and I was encouraged at the club I was at to do my coaching badges so I was very very fortunate that I'd passed my full badge when I was only 21 so I'd got everything sorted out and I was really really keen irrespective of what was going to happen on the plane to go into coaching I'd go up to Lily Shore every year, Steve, for all the coaches and managers that go there.

22:57I watched great people work. You know, Bobby Robson, Don O'Donnell, Dave Sexton, Venables, George Graham would be there. You know, just absolute, you know, and we had the best coaches in the world then, without a question of a doubt. Yeah, we had Italian coaches come over. We had Spanish coaches come over. It was just, it was absolutely fabulous to be around, you know, experienced people and watching them. I'd, you know, I'd be in the fourth row back, you know, keeping my head down, but listening to them. And I think I've always been more, Crouchy will tell you, more defensively than going forward.

23:32And I think that started with my love of Italian football. And I used to listen to people talk about, you know, the football in Italy, how structured they were, how disciplined they were, you know, and it just stuck with me, Steve. And, you know, then, you know, I got the job at Bournemouth. I had two years there a wonderful fella Norman Award who was my chairman he was a very very tough man but very honest and was tough on me it was tough love really I had two years there left left after two years we'd brought players in we'd made a lot of money but we weren't never you know we were in the league we stayed in the league but we weren't you know Harry had left and Harry was a hero at Bournemouth I'd taken over you know different style of football this that that that I always played, Steve, to the strengths of my team.

24:24And people think, and with the throw-ins now with Rory, they talk about Stoke just being Rory. Stoke weren't just Rory. It took us a while to settle in the premiership. But then we had Pennant, Etherington, Crouchy, and Zonzi. We had some good players, but we never told anyone, Pete, did we? We always, you know, we're just rough and tumble, kick it down the middle, chase it. you don't get to a semi-final and win 5-0 you don't go to Europe to the later stages just kicking a ball down the pitch but we didn't want to tell everybody that we'd actually changed when I went to Palace it was a completely different completely different group of lads the three most important players were Shamak Punchen and Balassie and we built what I did I signed three players I took Hennessy three tip-tap Charlies yeah three tip-tap Charlies the rest of the Hamoneggers that was the most I had no I keep three tip tap Charlies in most of my teams but then I went out and got Hennessy Scott, Dan Joe Ledley Backbone I got them after a couple of months and you know we ended up staying up I got the manager of the year from playing a different way but no one talks about you know you're just pigeonholed going to West Brom so I had wide players there and at a 10 who were exceptional.

25:45Shamak was fantastic, honestly. His ability to keep the ball and to play the right pass at times. You wouldn't notice, Pete, because it was so simple. But no one else in our club at that time could do what Marion and then Blassie was on fire. Nobody could live with. And Punch was a very intelligent player. He'd pick pockets. And it was a real, real good team. Then I go to West Brom and we've got no wingers. You know, we've got Brunty, Gads and James Morrison. So I had to play then like Roy used to play, 4-2-2-2. So bring the two wide players in. We played really, really deep. We had Berrejino and Blimey Brown, who they signed from, I can't remember what club it was.

26:36And again, we had to play differently. We had to play completely different. and what we did Pete in my time there the two centre forwards actually dropped onto the two midfield players the full backs were looked after by the wide players when they got the ball but we allowed every team in the Premier League the two centre-halfs to have the ball so we would not we would not we would not close down until they crossed the halfway line and they played the first pass they played the first pass that was the switch and they got after it and then our two midfield players push up on their two midfield players our two forwards to push up on their two centre halves.

27:11You had to do it different. And I think that's most probably been the thing I've enjoyed most was going into clubs with different strengths and then looking at it and going, how are we going to survive? Because West Brom was the worst group of players that I think I've ever taken over. It was just shambolic. Kempi said it, you know, you've taken over like a fashion wear where the man's wearing a red pair of shoes, a white pair of trousers, a pink shirt a green tie are you supposed to put something together that looks I've seen your club but that that was me Steve so I I just enjoyed looking at things and going that's the strength and that's the strength and that's the strength now let's see if we can add a little bit to it and try and get results you know getting into management so young I can't give an answer like that most of mine was it was 4-4-2 and I loved it when it was 4-4-2 and I loved having wingers that took people on and I loved having strikers getting across the near post and people midfield players getting in the box full backs getting up after it and almost committing you know certainly seven, eight forward sometimes you get your two centre backs one sat in front and pretty much played that throughout my career if I could then it started to change of course and there'd be times I'd be saying to TC what's going on here you know we're getting battered and we try and change it you know play 4-3-3 very rarely we have 3-5-2 but we change it around and we change it around in the game so we're not going to stick to what we think is how we want to play because if you're getting battered doing that something wrong you've got to change it so we'd have a bit more fluidity in changing it but generally a 4-4-2 4-3-3 it's what players you've got then You play the way you want to play with the players that you've got.

29:09Because if you haven't got two wingers, don't think about playing 4-4-2. Because, you know, we used to have midfield players outside. I'm not a winger. I want to play on the inside, you know. So it is marrying up everything to try and get a system that suits the players you've got. It's getting results. If you don't win, you ain't going to be in a job very long. Can I ask you guys what you make of people coming in with a philosophy or a belief? what you've both said there I think is you go into a club and you see the players you've got and you adapt to what's best suited to those players you know if what I'm thinking of Ruben Amorim at Manchester United coming with a system that is employed but do those players fit that system you know is there an over-reliance on you know having this kind of formation that you play or philosophy but sticking to it even though you're losing games well as I said Clare I think if you've got a philosophy and it's not working, you've got to change it.

30:07You've got to do something else. Not just keep ramming it down everybody's throat. And I'm not saying that Ruben Amarin's doing that because when he had the team in Portugal, I thought they were fantastic. And you've got to persevere sometimes to try and get the players to do it. If the players don't want to do it or can't do it, then that's a different matter altogether. That's management, Mick. Absolutely. So there's the coaching aspect of it and the management aspect of it. Sometimes I think you've got to tear that bit up and go, that ain't working we're going to have to do something else how much would you come up against say managing upwards as well so just answer that I'll come to that just answer the question before I'm at Ipswich and we're playing 4-4-2 in pre-season all along and we've lost nearly every game we're getting bashed and I want to play that way and I think we can I said to TC we've got it was Harry that came with Birmingham Harry Redknapp and I said we can't keep doing this we've got to change this tell you what we'll go 3-5-2 so we just did it Wednesday, Thursday, Friday before the game we played great and we won I remember Harry saying after every fucking game we won 2-9-4-4-2 and then you turn up and play 3-5-2 and so we changed it we had to change it I didn't want to change it I wanted to play the way we did and we won five games on the bounce playing that way so you'd have to change it sorry No, no, no.

31:32I was just saying in terms of, you know, when you talk about, you know, adapting to the situations that you found yourself in clubs. But when you were joining some of these clubs, did you ever come up against it from up high or an insistence? I think there was always, you know, when I started, most probably the same. There was a chairman, there was a secretary and there was a manager. And you three run the football club. You run everything. And I mean, you run everything. I had a coach and a youth coach. The secretary would have, obviously, people around who were doing the paperwork and everything else, and the chairman would oversee it.

32:07We'd have a board meeting, say, once a month, where the other three or four directors would come in, and you'd sit down and have a little chat. If you look at football now, the way it's gone, you've got so many people now between the coach and the owner. The owner sometimes, not even the chairman. The owner's at the broads, or wherever. So personally, if I was going in or advising anybody today, young managers going in, they're usually coaches now. They're not managers. So they've got to be good on the grass. The most important thing for them is to have someone above them who actually looks after the noise.

32:44Because you're going to have runs of games where you're not going to win. And that's where they all moan and groan or they question you. And you need someone, I think, in that boardroom or around that is actually put them right, settle them down and put them right and give the person who's working on the grass the opportunity, a chance to lose a few games before he gets it right. Now, if they don't get it right in the end, you get the sack anyway. But I think there's a lot of knee-jerk reaction because everybody above is looking after their own jobs. They're not too concerned if the chairman's going berserk about anyone else.

33:18They look after themselves. And I don't honestly think that's right. I agree. I'm not so sure that the people who are above the coaches have got the right, not across the board, but some of them haven't got the right perspective. They're probably looking after their own jobs anyway. But somebody who can see if they've got a young coach and actually watching the game, I can see that that's actually changed. Yeah, we got beat today, but that was a really good performance. And actually, I can see he's improved him and that's improved and the way they're doing it's improved and not to have a knee-jerk reaction and think...

33:50I always had older people. Lindsay Parsons was 10 years older than me. Jerry Francis, again, Kempe. They were always, I had young coaches who would do the entertaining work that the players needed as you went on. They'd like a little five-a-side or keep ball or a bit of shoot. I didn't like that. I always wanted to do shape and shape and shape, he'll tell you. And me and Kempe would be on that side while they were doing that. But Kempe would, Kempby would when I was a little bit down in the dumps or if I'd lost my head or I'd done something that I shouldn't have done Dave would always be there and we'd go and have a drink or we'd have a bite to eat and he'd say you're out of order to do it you want good cop bad cop and all the time you need somebody to say actually you need somebody at some stage when you're doing the coaching I certainly had it with Taff with Ian Evans come on let's let's get him out let's go and have a pint with the lads let's you know that was that was kind of the remedy at the time I'm talking 30 years ago I'm talking to young coaches now.

34:48Just somebody to put his arm around you and say, hold on a minute, look, it's not all as bad as you think it is because you take it home with you and you feel lousy. You go home and you need somebody just to, listen, just calm down a bit. Just cool your heels. I spoke to a young manager the other day who keeps in touch with me and they'd had a little bit of a poor start and he was down in the dumps and I actually said to him, listen, on Monday, you've got to walk in with your chest pumped out your shoulders back because they're looking at you they're not looking at anyone else they'll be looking at you and see what your reaction is so as much as you're disappointed as much as this affected your weekend and everything else as soon as you walk through that door you're the one Taff had it Taff had it to on yeah you've got to be positive silly hat, red nose, juggling routine Monday morning he said right get the hat on get the nose on juggling routine we didn't do that but it's you know it's you can't we can't as bad as a weekend we've had Saturday Sunday if we come in and bring that Saturday Sunday on Monday morning it's going to be carnage so you've got to be able to get out of that what do you make of the game at the moment Lys obviously you know we were very big on set pieces on long throw-ins right feels like you know and you've probably got a lot of criticism for that when you see top teams like ironically Arsenal who very very much disliked our long throwers they like disliked everything Arsene Wenger's still having therapy about how we play some new lots I remember we were talking just off air before we started this and I always remember I've told the story on the podcast where I looked and I think it was Aaron Ramsey he looked at his boots and he couldn't see them for the grass because we've we've grown it long like that you've got to talk us through that did that really happen I told Pete just a minute ago, I can remember, Venga used to always go up and go on the pitch before the game and we'd get a heavy roller on, Steve, that would flatten the grass and he'd be scooping the grass and by the end of it, it was like about four inches high and he'd be looking around to try and find someone to moan at because of it.

37:02But I can remember, you know, he would always moan and groan about it. I can remember playing against Manchester United at home one day and Sir Alex afterwards having a glass of wine with him he went home that grass was so long today I actually seen a rabbit jumping up over the far side of the pitch but we'd do anything to win within the rules you know they talk about oh this was that this was that you know now Arteta's done it it's Arsenal you know it's Arsenal Arsenal are one of the biggest clubs in the world and I respect him enormously for actually looking at set plays and going last year we just missed out if we because they can outplay teams without a question of a doubt they get clean sheets and now they've added something else to their hammery they can now score regular offset plays so they have now cracked it for me they've got everything going into battle they've got everything to win games were you like were you big on set pieces dark hearts Mick did you do any did you grow the grass no I didn't grow the grass You know, I wasn't as devious as that.

38:13But yeah, certainly into the dark arts, definitely. We're trying to block people. I mean, all this now that's coming, I mean, blocking people. They just grab all of them. And it's kind of, sometimes they get a penalty for it. Mainly they don't. I mean, if you grabbed anybody when we were doing it, it was a general penalty. You get a penalty given. But we try and block people. Of course, we would have blocked somebody's marker, get him away. all the stuff that you needed to do most things you could do almost within reason and the rules to win a game yes you know I mean I never went I never went to doing anything I remember people changing the changes I went up to Cambridge as the manager of Millwall with Becky yeah and I walked we went into the dressing room and on the table there's the news that's playing on Sunday there's all the Sunday newspapers laid out there's two big trays of biscuits and a lovely big pot of tea yeah which I threw all of it in the bath straight away.

39:07So get that to fuck out of here. The lads sat down and went like, oh, oh, seriously, you know. Not a chance. That's them being clever, but that's the dark arts as well. We talk about change and what it was like when we started. You know, we had physios who weren't physios. You know, they'd gone down the bottom of the road and got a certificate and they became a physio. So you'd have a bucket of water and a sponge. and if you got it you were you'd get absolutely hammered if you took a tackle and never got up even if your leg was out falling off you would get absolutely don't show your earth whatever happens you do not you know honestly you know that you look at things today and look back what what and then if the trainer did come on yeah half the time the sponge was dirty it was muddy you know you'd have cuts across your eyes and have a muddy sponge wiping it you know it is you know But we've now got millions of people working in sports science, millions of people, you know, doing the different, you know, recruitment and this, that and the other.

40:11And I think the game's gone on, Pete. The way it is today, it's unbelievable. You know, the pitches are fantastic. They play with proper balls. They play with balls that goalkeepers can kick it out of the 18-yard box. When I played at the beginning, if it was a wet, windy day, the keeper would struggle to kick it out. because the balls were so heavy. But everything's changed. And I think there's definitely a lot of good that has come into the game. A question of a doubt. But there are things that really frustrate me. And I think there's, and we've got to be careful with this, I think we're getting to a stage where we're overprotecting.

40:52We're overprotecting. We're overprotecting. And to have top, top-class athletes, whether it's football, rugby or whatever, you've got to drive those people forward. They've got to take a bit of pain at times to get those small gains. And I think sometimes we sort of like get to a point, Steve, where we're stopping that. You know, we've got people in charge who are actually stopping it. So we've got to be careful. If we want to be a great sporting nation, we've got to have the best players. There was an example the other night where the young lad for Spurs got hit with the ball. And he went down and he held his head.

41:28he got smacked in the head and he got so it looked like you know it hurts but generally you're alright and I think he wanted to carry on and now I haven't heard anything and he may well have got concussion from it I sincerely hope he hasn't but he went he saw his staggering around a little bit but he went off the pitch and wanted to come back on they were not having it at all I mean I know it's protocol now to take them off but I'd like to know if he has Steve Steve, we used to play, if you got kicked and you didn't get up, you'd get absolutely hammered. Don't show you're in, and then you go in the dressing room, crouching up, blood coming in.

42:09Then you cry. I've got a question for both of you. I think everyone in this room has all said at one point, the game's gone, right? So from your point of view, okay, when did you think, was it when the game was gone for you? Was it when the draft excluder came out? was it when VAR was in was it when there was a director of football when so when in your careers or even after you manage have you gone the game's gone great question that when did we lose the game do you want me to answer this one Dick or you I think you better start I think the game has changed Stephen I think the game has gone or got to a point where you can actually sit down and say we need now to make changes I think VAR for a start referee it's so much more difficult now for referees to manage a game because they're being undermined all the time irrespective of what people say what they don't say now VAR was brought in for clear and obvious so if you say right you've got two minutes in the studio but where these other people are looking at it for the referee you've got two minutes to decide whether it's good or bad after two minutes bosh you're not having no more time that's clear and obvious to me so I would go that and I would make it that and so you've got a time frame because they did it for clear and obvious now they're doing it every time every goal's being analysed every tackle's being analysed every this is that and they've just for me they've taken the art and soul out of the supporters because every time someone scores a goal now everybody's holding back and I'm waiting to see if they're going to VAR to see if they can stop it change it or whatever so I think we've got to be careful we don't want to kill the game the game's for the supporters the game's about the supporters and the players the other thing that annoys me is that the referees have now got something on their chest they run round they video stuff then he comes on the pitch and then he goes I'm disallowing this goal he's mic'd up for this reason tell you what when I was younger a good referee was a referee you never noticed now they've built an empire up where they're almost more noticeable than the players and I'm not all the blame is not them it's not but it's just the way things are and I think everything is just multiplied and multiplied and if you give them that air they're going to do it and they're going to keep doing it mine's based more on a football thing to be quite honest with you the game's gone I love this segment it's just gone The thing is when they broke out, so they've got it and the wide player's got the ball, he takes it on the inside, he's got the full-back going over on the overlap and he puts him in, he's got a great chance of crossing it and he turns around and he gives it back to the midfield player, he gives it back to the centre half and the keeper gets it.

45:10That has gone. So I'm looking at it and I'm thinking, well, the centre forward's got to cross the near post, we've got a midfield player in the box, somebody's attacking the far post, you've got another one going in the box, stick it in the box and then when it really is gone is when the winger's got it again or whatever it might be a wide player midfield player and he gets on the overlap and he gets to it and he does stick it in the box and he whips it right across the goal and all the twats have come out looking for it cut back and then the opposite is they go in and then they run across the near post and he wants to cut it back I'm thinking for heaven's sake like stick I mean we talked about Harland there the other day Could you imagine if actually they did stick a lot of crosses in for him?

45:52I mean, he gets goals and goals, and Man City have been the best at the way they play football, but not everybody can play that way. I think that's one of the big things, Steve. There's still a... Well, we've gone back to long throws, we've gone back to long balls. There's still a route for... We're just saying to you, if they stuck the ball in the box, I think you could probably still play a crouching, because you wouldn't stick it in the box. That irks me. I'm talking about football not rules and regs it's watching it and that's one of the things when I do go game's gone I do look at some of the centre forwards though I look at some of the centre forwards and I think when I played the Stoke team I played in I had Matthew Everton I had Jermaine Pennant I'm at Tottenham I've got Gareth Bower and Aaron Lennon you know forwards demanded crosses and I think now it's become almost like the wingers are the goal scorers and the centre forward And, you know, is he the main man anymore?

46:47Yeah, but the big thing is, you know, the pitch, if you set the pitch out, there's a goal one end and a goal another end. You've got to keep the ball out of that end and you've got to put it in this end. And the most important parts of the football pitch are not the middle parts, are both boxes. And if you can defend well and you can create chances and score goals, you win football matches. To do that, you've got to get, as Mick was just saying, much more positive, especially going forward. I think Pep has been one of the most, if not the most, infolent managers that have come to our shores. Influential to on the world.

47:25Influential. And with that, he has brought a system that everybody has jumped onto. What they don't say and what they don't talk about is that he spent over a billion pounds to get the best players in the world in every position. So you've got players at the back who can play like, at Stoke playing like our forwards could. They were that good. And he set a trend and everybody jumps on the trend and everybody then starts trying to play like Man City do. They'll come out, they'll pick your pockets, they'll come in your... I don't think this Man City team is anywhere as good as the team four, five years ago.

48:03I don't, honestly. I think that they've taken out a lot of goals. If it wasn't for Ireland, I'm looking at it and I'm thinking, who else will score? They play good football in the middle of the pitch. I'm not sure they create as many chances as they should. And that's, for me, that's the name of the game. I think support was one of, in this country, years and years ago, you go abroad and people used to say, we love English football. It's so up and at them. It's chance after chance after chance. You don't get that now. It's coming back a bit now, Steve, but it definitely dropped off, Mick. I would agree.

48:39talking about obviously things evolving and the game being gone obviously social media various bits and pieces coming into the world Mick I've got to touch on the press conference where they ask you it can't go on like this anymore and you've done do you realise how big you are on TikTok yes I'm six foot one but I'm sat here I said on TikTok but it's been I've been made aware of that yeah somebody said to me you've had 8 million views of this. I said, what do you mean? I haven't got a clue. Somebody asked me to do it, you know. What is it? I've been walking through a train station. I'm at the train station where I am, and these 14-age young ones, like 13, 14, have seen them.

49:21They go, is that really? And I'm there with my grandson, and I'm pushing him round. So I start walking around. They're now wanting to come and speak to me, so I'm walking around the station pushing my grandson. Eventually, the cop on to me said, is it me? I said, yeah. Can we do that video? and I said to him I always say 500 and odd games as a player 1 ,000 and odd as a manager fame at last but of course it was we were at Reading I think have we lost seven on the bounce or something I went I don't know something it can't go on like this I goes it can and it fucking did by the way let me just tell you sorry excuse my friends but I can't you can bleep that I'm sorry but it just did but you know Some of your interviews and yours as well is home.

50:10How did you find working with the press? Let me just... Sorry, you get yours into it because I had one over in Ireland. It was my first game back as a competitive game. We're playing Georgia and we're coming from the hotel on the bus. We've got the police escort. Everything's going well. The bus breaks down. Oh, yeah. So we win 1-0. Not a great performance. I know what's going to come so we landed in the we landed we got back we got in the stadium about 10 minutes later than we would have done no problem we were there two hours before it didn't cause us any aggravation whatsoever journalists trying to you know make it out that it was the bus that we didn't play well and all that so I said oh my god you know can I just ask what happened with the coach as you were travelling in I said yeah it brought down he says would you like to elaborate on that I said yeah it won't go any further

51:11the press conference is in uproar like because they're all laughing at him but I had to do it because that's what he wanted they wanted that as a story and I wasn't going to go oh yeah we broke it down we should have had a better bus it can happen and we took it in our side when we won and yeah some of the press conferences I used to always stand up to look down at him that was a psychological always stood up always stood up psychologically so I was looking down on them secondly I'd always get my press officer I'd always I'd always speak second after games not first I'd get my press officer to listen what the other manager has said then he'd come and tell me if he was being negative or whatever so I was ready for it so I would do those two things but same as Mick I think you go into some games and there's definitely a preconceived idea from the press of what they want to do and say.

52:09So you've got to be clever enough to understand that if this happens, this is what you're going to get. If it doesn't happen, yeah, they'll swerve it up. But if it does happen, you've got to be ready for it. They have an agenda, don't they? When they come into the press conference, they have a story in their mind that they want to write and they ask you the question. And more often than not, they ask, I think people are getting better at it but more often than not they ask the question and they get the answer perfectly they wanted and they've written the story already and just got the answer how hard how hard is that because we've done it as players when you after a game win or lose get the microphone straight under under your nose and it's like you know whether it's a loaded question or not but as a manager yeah because your emotions are much more heightened than a player because there's a lot more rivalry in terms of I never I never I made a point of never criticising the players or the team if it was a poor performance it was a poor performance and I'd say it was a poor performance I would not want to go out and criticise any of the players I would in the dressing room after the game or on the Monday or whatever I'd get stuck into a few but I would never ever want to bring that out in the press so I would completely and utterly miss that and the other things like Mick says if you know what angle they're going for you hopefully are prepared to make the right answers that actually calms it out it's not going to stop it because the game's happened but you might calm it down not saying about players when I was at Wolves I went in I think we spoke about that when he said you know what happened today and we'd had three games on the bounce or something we were in the academy I said the lads were running on empty you know that just went away came back and on the Monday my press officer says to me have you seen what these guys wrote what you said I said no what's he said he said you said the players were non-entities I said what did I said they were running on empty so the following Saturday we got this little tour rag who's in front of me and I says to him what did you think I said and did you think you've got that as a scoop nobody else heard me say the players were non-entities and you've gone away and written it I said they were running on empty I was raging I was raging because it's there once it's printed it's there it's there forever you can take it out what a clown what about would you go back into management or are you guys done I mean wolves are struggling at the moment Mick oh listen if they come and ask me today I'm there tomorrow don't worry about it that's for sure I love it good answer I'll come with you Mick this time I'll promise you I'll promise you wow you can fuck up this time come on what's up there you get one chance let me tell you I'd go in and do bits and pieces for someone but I wouldn't want I wouldn't want to be heading it up now I've had my goal I still regret not getting you by the way we'd have been a better team with you definitely above it all you would have been because you had a great career there at Fulham when you went in but I still laugh about it It was, you know, all those years.

55:25We've laughed. We had a game of golf up at Old Head, didn't we? We did. We had a drink over it, yeah. I would, yeah, if Wolves came and asked me, I can say this because there's as much chance of you guys getting it as well. Absolutely, yeah, because I love my time up there and it's a shame to see where it's going, especially after how well he did the last time coming in. But they sold his players, you know. They sold some of the best players and if you keep doing that, it's a recipe. You're going to struggle, yeah. Yeah. And what about you, Tony? You wouldn't fancy it now? No, I've had my go. And like I say, I help and I do help people, younger managers.

56:02I think there's about five or six people now in the game who I've worked or have worked under me. So I always are there for them and they always ring me up. I get more people ring me up now about different things and this, that and the other. So that's good. I like going out and watching my grandchildren play now. I've got seven grandchildren, two of them in America, five of them over a year. The boys play regular. Molly's just started playing football as well now, which is, you know, that takes up time. But it's just absolutely fantastic to be able to wake up every morning and do, you know, do what I want to do rather than thinking about everybody else.

56:41As you do as a manager, you don't, you know, people don't know. Can I just ask you, would Debs be happy to see you back in the year? 100%. Oh, Fiona. Let me tell you. She can't get rid of me quick enough. Fiona's put an application in for me. I've always been in other places. She'd be delighted to tell me out of the house. Seriously. Are you enjoying it, don't you, mate? You're enjoying what you're doing now with the podcast and just the stuff you do? I am, yeah. I'm fully enjoying it. Yeah. He loves it with me. Yeah. Absolutely. You know what? It's just not having that... You just don't have to be anywhere at a certain time.

57:12And by the way, the game has changed, certainly. I mean, it's like herding cats now with some of them. I mean, you know, the players. And we've spoke about this, what they can do now. You were saying, can you imagine Alex Ferguson back when he's got his golden team and two or three of his lads come and say, by the way, I'm doing a podcast gaffer. Oh, and I'm doing an advert. Oh, and I might not be. Not a chance. It was all, you're just down to the football. So football has changed. I don't think that... The way it's managed, the way it's coached. You're closer to the generation now. I'm not so sure they have as much fun.

57:47You know, I think everything is preconceived now because of the internet. I think everything is, can we do this? Because if we do and it gets out, we're going to get hammered and everything else. I'm not so sure, you know, the enjoyment will be there Saturdays and during the week. It's just off and away. We talked about the atmosphere at Stoke and the players going out and having, you know, time together and doing stuff together and everything else. I'm not so sure you could have a fancy dressed do now in ale the way you did when when Croatia was running it you know you couldn't do that now you know it'd be splashed all over the papers I think that's a very fair point and also I think in answer to your question earlier about the game being gone I think putting Wi-Fi in stadiums I think that should never have how you shouldn't I could never get a phone signal when I first started going to the football it was brilliant it was your only focus was watching the game I think that's a biggie as well I know what you mean by that I didn't realise it's got wifi in stadiums a lot of them do now that's probably because I never look at my phone when I'm in a stadium but I will say now you're doing a podcast you can have a lot of fun because you know we put on a festival every now and then and that's just an excuse to do all sorts I can't wait to see you two I mean what would that be called it's a lot of fun and we've loved doing it and we've met some amazing people doing it as well I'm just looking at that photograph can you go up again Mick's photograph look how old he looked there he looks younger now and that was five years ago.

59:16Was it seven games or 17 games? I can't remember. I wasn't involved with all of them, but yeah, you can't go on like this. It can, it can. It was at Glastonbury, that flag, it was up there. It's the only time I've been to Glastonbury. It was, yeah. Yeah, the flag was flying. People sending me pictures. Amazing. Absolutely incredible. But see, I get kids will come up and they want me to do it. Yeah. I was there the other night, somebody said, oh, it was a train station. And I said, hi, to this couple, I said, hello, they're sort of, you know when somebody's recognised you look at him, hiya, how you doing, hello oh can you just talk to my son he's just dropped us off and he opened it and he said can you do that video he can't, I said no I can't, no see ya I'm catching the train not real amazing isn't it it's great to see you doing so well and you know I've been across you Mick obviously over the years played against your teams many times and obviously I've played under you Tony, it's great to see you both doing so well and it was great having you on.

1:00:13Enjoyed it. Appreciate it. Yeah, very good. Thank you so much. It's still like being involved slightly, this. That's what's nice about it, talking to like-minded people. Thanks, Lance. Thank you very much. Very good.

1:00:28It really is great to speak to proper football people like that. You know, people have been in the game for that long. I absolutely love Tony Pulis, you know, regardless of if someone thinks one thing of him, I absolutely love him I think if you play well for him and you give everything he'll always be amazing with you and he was with me he's the one person that I've always always asked you know how's Tony just because he was so lovely to the family and everything he's a really good fellow he was brilliant with me and it's good to see him again and Mick was everything I hoped he would be

1:01:12i will say tony poolis tony poolis who's been a i guess a sort of feature discussed or character discussed in his podcast quite a lot as well it's great having a proper sit down with him wasn't it he loves saying your name sits yeah i don't know why i didn't even play for him uh yeah i loved it absolutely loves it i i urge anyone if you if you're sort of think trying to think of a new drinking game this weekend just re-listen to that interview and have a shot every time he mentions steve's name um you're gonna get smashed mick mick was great mick was great as well them two are great together so good yeah brilliant i loved it stories do you know the one thing i wish with Spike I just see they're a natural double act as well and it's funny because being a manager is such a solo job I guess yes you've got a team and an assistant manager but you don't really get two managers you don't get two leading roles like that they're very much the kind of I don't know did I say Anton Deck Ariana Grande Cynthia Erivo they could release a swing album together and it genuinely could be a fantastic album I reckon it is great listening to those stories and you know being around football for that long they've got so many and there were so many off camera as well that we can't repeat which I loved hearing yeah right lads into the league obviously the greatest league in the world massive massive week for me humongous I was at the Tottenham Manchester United match obviously when Tottenham go 2-1 up it was almost like you nicked it Chris and then United score in the last minute obviously I want Tottenham to win that game but the 2-2 was massive for me it gave me four points Chris zero for you Sid's stuck in there with the two points which puts me still bottom but closed the gap massively 22 Chris 23 and Sid's is Arsenal at the moment on 26 well that Tottenham game was just painful wasn't it like you were busy on tv at the time Crouchy I was I was watching the game it really hit different actually losing it in that way to you and then having to watch you on tv smiling away especially as the the sort of bar I was in in fact I wasn't even in a bar I was in a room with like a load of other guys we're sort of doing this daddy daycare thing that we had to do everyone watching the football everyone invested in our league you know i'd explain the situation go to one up honestly man there we i was celebrating i thought i had it i messaged sid's and was like come on we got it and then do you know what the worst thing was sid's you text going like classic football something like that you fired that into a whatsapp group but because the tvs were on delay in the place that i was i was like no i think they're going to score.

1:04:24You got a text with Sids before you saw the goal. Yeah. Oh, no. Oh, no. Corremious. To be fair, you have robbed Crouchy. Yeah, I was about to say that. You've robbed it off Crouchy a couple of times. Yeah, I agree. You had your comeuppance there. We'll get into this week's game, shall we? Yeah. This next part of the podcast is supported by Paddy Power as the big weekend fixture. Of course, it's International Week. I've been down at England's camp this week. Listen, they're full of a chill. They're relaxed. They're already there. And they're playing. It's England playing Serbia. England are still 2-7.

1:05:15Still strong favourites. Serbia are 9-1. I mean the qualifying record for England's been impeccable six wins from six games 18 goals scored get this zero conceded Serbia mixed bag really from them 10 points from six games any result here would be massive for them to qualify but England are averaging three goals a game conceding none surely it can only go one way but will they take their foot off the gas that is the question you tell us Crouchy what were you seeing at the training ground there you're chatting with the manager there is he playing you know is Harry Kane starting what's going on there I I do think there'll be changes I think it'll be you know definitely looking at other players you know he has to get his squad together now and I think for the World Cup in the summer So it's an opportunity to look at players, maybe fringe players, players that you may want to start, players in various positions.

1:06:25So yeah, I do think there will be a little bit of change, but not too much. You don't want to upset the balance too. You want to keep that run going. Do you boys remember the scoreline from this fixture back in September? No. It was 5-0 to England. Are you going to go again on that one, Sid? I don't think so I don't think so I'm in the crouch camp really I don't know how many changes are going to be made if they're taking their foot off the gas is Harry Kane going to play I'm sure he would want to because of getting more goals I see it being an England victory but I don't know how many goals yet I don't know what do you boys think what are you going to go for I'm happy to go I'm going to go with 3-0 England oh he's that for fuck's sake I think worryingly the idea of them being more relaxed will actually benefit them I just see I don't see that necessarily as being a negative for them and as you say maybe other players with points to prove.

1:07:43I just see a very positive atmosphere with this. So I did want 3-0, but I'm going to go... I'm going to go 4-0 on this one. There's a bonus point if you go for 5, though. Oh! If anyone will. If anyone will, he said... I'm going to go... I'm going to go 5-1. Oh!

1:08:14That arouses me that.

1:08:21See, that arouses you. I thought, what a shithouse move.

1:08:27Okay. All right. You're banging trouble, Sid. If England get the 5-0 right, so I foresee a situation where it gets the 4-0, naturally you then pick my pocket for the 5, and then you're desperately having to hope for a Serbian last 10-minute goal. I can really see that happening. I can see a goal. I can see a goal. I can see one. And I just think England will get more. So let's go for the 5-1. Come on. Hold on. Okay. Okay. Are you definitely sticking with 5-1? Yeah? I'm going 5-1. 5-1. All right, Crouchy. Can I change mine? Oh, wow. Oh, wow. No, no. We don't have to. I can stick with 4-0. but I quite like this bonus point that's on offer so I'd like to shift mine to 5-0 5-0 5-1 and 5-0 that is outrageous alright fine I'm happy with that let's get into the Paddy's boost we each pick a leg of the Crouch Pop bet builder the odds of that bet builder then boosted by 20 % put on the special section of the Paddy Power website now player to score first Harry Kane

1:09:41I will go for a player to be carded I'll go Declan Rice Okay cool I'm going to go player to have two plus shots on target Bukayo Saka Obviously we don't know the lineups at this point And this is where it normally falls wrong With the international games When we do the predictions But there they are There they are The odds are correct at time of recording Please gamble responsibly Moving on to Greece versus Scotland the last fixtures here Greece 4-0 to 4-0 they beat Bulgaria 5-1 they beat Belarus lost to Denmark 3-0 and they lost to Scotland in the reverse fixture which is in Scotland so a real mixed bag there real mixed bag Scotland played well very well recently with a 4-0 win against Lichtenstein they drew with Denmark beat Belarus beat Greece beat Belarus against he had a good run don't know where you see this one going do you know what's a curveball in this is is is Scotland beating them 3-1 at home that was the that's the curveball for me because I think we had this game that come up before no Billy Gilmore either I've just seen he's ruled out which is a big blow but it is in Greece

1:11:08or is it tough? Yeah, that's worth bearing in mind. This is tough. This is tough. I I want to go can I go first boys? I'm going to go for a Scotland 2-1 win. Very tricky. All right. I'm going to go for a 1-1 draw. Oh, I like that. Not so horny. It's not so horny but it's a draw. I like it. Oh, I just, I know nothing about Greece. What's the positives in backing Greece here? Are there any? Yeah, they're at home. You know, they've won big. They've been inconsistent. But their last... I think they're lacking some experience. Their last three games at home, they beat Bulgaria 4-0. They beat Belarus 5-1, but they lost to Denmark 3-0.

1:12:07So they are scoring goals. Yeah. Go on then. Let's give them a go. I've had some nice holidays. Okay. Let's, let's, it's not, I'd rather, it's a tricky one this because I would rather Scotland win. I really would. This isn't like a, what I want. But I'm, I'm going to go Greece 2-0. Lovely. Norway do have a couple of gems in Odegaard and Haaland. Haaland has scored a fucking shitload of goals this season. Fucking loads of them. He's got 51 in 46 Norway appearances, by the way. He's got 51 in 46. That sounds outrageous. He's making a mockery. A mockery of football. Do you know I heard a stat today?

1:13:06Erling Haaland scored 14 goals in 11 Premier League games this season. And he just beat his own record of 13 in 25-26. Les Ferdinand is then shoehorned in when he got 13 goals. And then you've got Haaland and Haaland again in that record where he got 11 and 11. so he got 11 in 11 11 in another 11 he got 13 in 11 now he's got 15 in 11 that's the start of the season he was like you just want to get off to a decent start you know bed yourself in

1:13:47do you know one thing I didn't know about Haaland is this common knowledge did you know did you know he was born in Leeds so he's I mean obviously would be eligible to play for England that would have been to be fair that would have been phenomenal wouldn't it imagine so we're talking about Haaland though dads but they are coming up against Italy and Gattuso is unbeaten as an Italian manager four games four wins by the way and they are at home just to throw a cat amongst the pigeons here can I just give you sorry because I just whilst I'm looking up the facts about Haaland right which it does seem like that's true actually he would have been eligible for england there's a couple of other amazing harlan facts in here can i just quickly give them to you might explain why he's such a freak of nature right it says harlan follows a diet that includes around 6 000 calories per day and features foods like cheese and ham omelets nothing abnormal about that i reckon then it's his sleep routine he's known to sleep with a hot chocolate before away games and has a pre-sleep routine that includes meditation and avoidance of devices for three hours before bed so if you want to play football for like harland maybe these are the things you can start doing but this last one's my favorite he uses the champions league anthem as his alarm tone wow what a brilliant way to start the day wow it's that it's the erling harland way i think we should all try it to see if it improves your performance in all areas of your game i'll tell you what i tried the other day lads as well he was um he was seen a local farm shop wasn't he eating tomahawk uh steaks and raw milk believe or not i don't know whether you've seen this and uh chris i was on with your friend roman kemp on sky the other day and uh we we both tried raw milk raw like i say fresh it's it's not great it's not great gotta say raw milk when you say raw milk do you mean sort of straight from udder to cup it's not yeah it's basically not is it pasteurised what am I going to say here yeah straight past your eyes yeah

1:16:10I was actually expecting it to be worse than what it was but it's not great it's not great but yeah he's drinking that as well daily I don't know any ideas on what the benefits of that would be I have no idea no don't know don't know but it's working would you do that Sid if we set it up would you go straight from the other

1:16:36yeah yeah well we'll have that set up for next week

1:16:46we've all got to do we've got to come on that would be more yeah do you fancy lying underneath the cow yeah I'll have a go straight in there yeah I'll have a go as well yeet up there alright let's go to a score I do believe Italy surely at home would get a result but you can't stop Haaland scoring can you I'm going to go I'm going to go for a two all draw what about that Haaland to bag too I like a draw I like a draw

1:17:26I'm gonna I think I'm gonna wait go on no you go first go on I'm still thinking no I'm gonna give I'm gonna go for a Norway win here I'm gonna go I'm gonna go missionary I'm gonna go 2-1 Norway oh wow against the to okay no way okay let's make it let's make this colourful I'm going to go for an Italian win and I'm going to go 2-0 right yeah enjoyed that lads enjoyed the interview great to see the two managers again and great to see you boys again we'll be back in soon we've got another couple of great guests lined up I don't know if you know for next week and the week after so So looking forward to those.

1:18:15Yeah, nice one, boys. All right, keep on the good work back stronger. Keep on passing the pod as well. I think we've had a good week of it. Let's keep momentum. Love that. Let's do it. Looking forward to seeing you boys in the studio. Yeah, we'll see you then, boys. Chumbawamba. Chumbawamba. This episode is brought to you by a load of pricks.net. We are the experts in selling houses. Chris couldn't sell his house. What did you do, Chris? I couldn't sell my house for love nor money, Crouchy. Three different offers I had, all at the last minute, fell through. I turned around to my wife and said, What can we do to sell this house?

1:18:47Every estate agent is failing us. Then I told her, Let's go to aloadopricks.net. But Chris, what did aloadopricks do for you? They were brilliant, Crouchy. They sold my house right away. The sign had barely gone up when a well-dressed gentleman came along and offered me twice the asking price. Chris, would you use aloadopricks again? I'd use them every time, Crouchy. Go to aloadopricks.net. They will sell your house like no other.