Why Most People Lose Arguments (Sales Tricks That Made Shelby Sapp $1M/Month at 24)

0:00I was making 300 grand in a summer.

0:02Shelby Sapp:You have to be a literal psychopath and step into an alternate version of yourself. What are your biggest confidence tips? I did not know how to talk to people. I had anxiety. I would stutter over my words. People think that you have to be extroverted, confident, articulate, but sales gave me all of those skills. Let's say I'm just someone who wants to be better at negotiating. I want to win an argument with my boyfriend. What do you think are tips that are really applicable to that? Whenever somebody says something that you don't like. Hey, I'm Shelby Sapp and welcome to the Burnouts.

0:34Sophia:Tell me a story about one of the favorite clients you've had that you've trained up without naming names.

0:38Shelby Sapp:I'll drop their names. Sabrina, my girl. Okay. Sabrina was a bartender making$4 ,000 a month and she has the best energy. Like she loves talking to people. Obviously anybody that's a bartender, barista, or a server kills it in sales because that is sales. You're working for tips. You're making a table happy, you know? And so she basically, she tried everything, e-commerce, dropshipping, starting a marketing agency, nothing really stuck. And then she did remote closing, obviously through my program. She made$62 ,000 last month in February and she had no sales experience.

1:15Sophia:This is something I always struggle with when we're hiring for sales is do you think people are just born with it? Like, do you think you have to be social and charismatic to get sales or do you think anyone can learn it? Dude, not at all.

1:26Shelby Sapp:I was so scared to start sales. Like the word sales made me feel like I am going to sell someone to something, someone else, and they're going to tell me no. Like it was just so daunting. I did not know how to talk to people. I had anxiety. I would stutter over my words. But sales gave me all of those skills that I think people think are a prerequisite. People think that you have to be extroverted, loud, confident, articulate, have conviction in your voice, have good tone, body language, present yourself well. When in reality, sales gives you that. Like the more that you do it, the more reps you get in, the more confident you feel.

2:06Shelby Sapp:And you learn your own selling style too. Like you learn when you say something and it lands, you're like, oh, I'm going to do more of that. Tell us about the first summer that you started doing sales. How did it go? And how much did you make? Oh my gosh. So I was 18 years old when I signed up to do sales and it was actually door to door sales. So I was knocking on doors, selling pest control halfway across the country because I was from Arizona and I was just like a broke college student wanting to obviously make some money and learn the skillset. And the night before I was supposed to start, I almost quit.

2:38Shelby Sapp:As soon as it came to like the night before, I was like, oh my gosh, at 8am, somebody's going to open up the door and I'm gonna have to roll objections on their porch. Like, I also hate bugs. Like, what am I doing selling pest control? Like, and I was the only girl. I just felt so uncomfortable. So I actually quit the night before. I called my manager and I'm like, hey, the timing's just not right. I gave him some like BS excuse. And I was like, I'll just come back next summer. Like, no issue. And he saw straight through this like, basically BS excuse. And he was like, you're just scared. Just show up tomorrow.

3:14Shelby Sapp:And like at the end of the day, if you still want to quit, then at least you can say you tried it. But like you just need to go out there. And so I was like, OK, and I hung up the phone. And fast forward that first summer, I was the only girl. So they didn't even have uniforms for me because they didn't think I would do well. And they didn't have girl uniforms. So I had to make my own uniforms. I did everything myself, pretty much rewriting the script, how I should say it. and I was the number one sales rep for my first summer out of the whole country for the first year sales reps. So that at that point they were always hiring these girls kind of like one-off in these offices and none of them ever stuck until they were like oh my gosh this girl can sell.

3:55Shelby Sapp:I'm like yeah girls can sell but if they're given the confidence to do so like you can't hire girls and not even give them a uniform like that just doesn't give you the self-confidence and that's really all sales is, is the ability to feel like you can close a deal, you know? So I made$70 ,000 at 18 years old in a summer. Wow. So in two and a half months. And this was what my freshman to sophomore year of college. Yeah. Were you good at it in the beginning? So my first day, I'm basically working for free, like knocking on doors. Nobody's buying from me.

4:31Sophia:And I called my mom. I'm like,

4:32Shelby Sapp:mom I shouldn't have done this sales is a scam like what am I doing here and she was like just keep going just end the day blah blah blah I get put in a group chat from my manager and he's like there were three people in the group chat okay the three people that didn't have a deal out of like 70 so that's very humbling you know you don't want to be in that group chat he puts us in a group chat and he's like hey the first one of you guys to get a deal I'll pay for your dinner tonight And I was like, the ego kind of kicked in because I was like, it's not going to be me that doesn't get it. Like, I have to get it.

5:04Shelby Sapp:So I told myself, I'm like, okay, the next door that I knock on, it will be a sale. Like, it has to be. Literally, Sophia, the next door I knock on was a sale. And that moment. But how did you make it happen? So I knock on this girl's door. Her name is Tiffany Valesquez. I will remember it till the day I die. She was so cool. this stay at home mom had a wine cellar invited me in for a glass of wine like um which I obviously didn't take because I was 18 years old you gotta close the deal yeah yeah yeah but um I knock on the door I pitch her and she's like oh my gosh that's so funny I was just looking at calling someone for pest control like sure I'll do it and I had no idea what I was doing so I told her I'm like, okay, really quick, like before I actually set it up, I just need to call my manager super quick to make sure that I can go this low.

6:00Shelby Sapp:Cause I gave you such a good deal. So she was like, okay, call with him, confirm whatever. So I call my manager and I'm like, okay, I'm getting a deal. I have no idea how to sign this girl up, how to do the paperwork or anything. So I'm like, I need you to walk me through it. And so he walks me through it. I sign her up. She's so freaking cool. She walks me over to next door. It's her best friend. Cause she's like, my best friend would want this too. I signed her best friend up. So the first two deals I ever got were luck. Okay. Okay. But the three doors after were all deals and they weren't connected.

6:32Shelby Sapp:They were just, when I tell my girls, I say sales is energy because I got five deals in a row purely because I now have the confidence of knowing, Hey, this could work. It's really not that difficult. And the energy that I was bringing into the conversation was these people just bought like, why wouldn't you buy?

6:52Sophia:Like, why wouldn't somebody need pest control?

6:54Shelby Sapp:You know, I guarantee there were so many deals that I missed out on from 8am to 5pm. Since purely because I was one foot in one foot out. But as soon as I got that first taste of a deal, and kind of the proof that it was real, then I approached every single door after that thinking to myself, this person's going to be a deal. So from 5 p.m. till I think 7 p.m., I broke the company record that a new sales rep could have on their very first day. Like my leaderboard went from zero deals to five in like two hours. And everybody's texting me like, hey, I think there's a glitch or something or like I think you're signing people up wrong or something.

7:36Shelby Sapp:I'm like, no, there's not. I actually close five people. And I just rode that momentum every single day because I in my brain, I labeled myself as the best because from that first day they were like what are you doing what are you saying like I was crazy I'm like I don't know I'm not telling you though I just rode that confidence and I think that's really what you need to do is you need to put yourself in a position to where the luck can find you what are your biggest confidence tips when you go into a pitch when I go into a pitch I have kind of like an incantation or a mantra that I say and mine is I'm her.

8:13Shelby Sapp:And so you can have your own too. Like, um, I always teach my girls whenever they get on a sales call, they should future pace their own mind. So what that means is I tell them, I'm like, you say these words in your own head before you hop on a call. I'm going to talk to this client. I'm going to ask them questions about where they're at versus where they want to be. I'm going to show them the cost of an action. If they don't do this, they're going to realize, oh my gosh, I really do need this. You're going to show them the offer. You're going to answer questions, roll objections if they have any, and you're going to roll them beautifully.

8:41Shelby Sapp:you're going to close the client and you are going to have them text you in a couple months saying, hey, Shelby, thank you so much for signing me up. That changed my life. And so when you go in with that kind of like expectation of you future pace your own mind, subconsciously you start approaching the deal in that logical sense. And then you're just kind of going through the motions in order to make that expectation a reality. And then walk us through what does a sales process look like? And I want to go back to when you were first doing this in the summer. So you said they gave you a script, but you redid it.

9:13Oh, yeah. Why?

9:14Shelby Sapp:It didn't work. So the script was it was so crazy. Like, this is why I don't do door to door sales anymore. It's so guy coded. Like these guys will dress up as pest control technicians. And the pitch is, hey, guys, like my truck is the street over. I was just spraying some homes. I have downtime. If we can fit you in, it's a discount. out and so i'm like okay none of that is gonna work at all so i kind of like you're in no uniform yeah i'm like i'm in lululemon right now like my truck is not down the block yeah i kind of like reworked the script to be more of a route manager the one that is in charge of all the technicians so i would approach the deal a little differently i would be like oh my technicians are in the area because that's kind of how pest control works and we don't have to get too much into pest control but so like if we can somehow fit you in we'll do it for a little bit of a discount rather than if you were to just call later.

10:06Shelby Sapp:So I just tweaked little things and approached it with a little bit more of a feminine style. I think that's the best because when they were first teaching me the script, you guys, it was very sales bro. It was like, hey boss man, like let me cut you a deal type phrases. And I was like, dude, that would never work for me. I was like an 18 year old sorority girl from Arizona, you know? And so that's what you need to do is you need to play the character of who somebody would buy from, depending on what you're selling.

10:38Sophia:Can you talk about specific sales tactics that you've coined to make you rich, like the pregnancy pause?

10:43Shelby Sapp:Yes. Okay. So the pregnant pause is what I say is whenever you drop a price, you have to shut the fuck up every time. The biggest mistake new sales reps make is whenever they show price. That's what I mean is whenever you're presenting something and then you show the initial price, sales reps will start just word salading and talking and being like, yeah, so it's 6K. But the coolest thing is, is you're going to get the warranty and you're going to get this and you're going to get that. And the words that you're saying just convey that you don't believe the value in whatever you're selling. So the number one rule and what I mean by the pregnant pause is as soon as you say price, you shut up.

11:24Sophia:What does it have to do with pregnancy?

11:26Shelby Sapp:Because when you're pregnant, it takes you nine months to deliver a baby. I just kind of like, I have these weird sayings that these girls love, but it takes you so long to deliver a baby. But you know the baby's coming. You're just waiting for it. And then you said that you added these feminine kind of embellishments to the script. What were some of those? So it's more of the approach to the deal. So I like to think of it as the customer's the head, the closer's the knack. So your job isn't to tell them what to do. nobody will ever agree with you telling them what to do because they know you're just after a commission at the end of the day but your job is to be the helper so you're just more steering them in the right direction showing them the whole game plan showing them not even just emotionally but on a logical scale like if you do this this is the data of where you should be at a certain timeline this is the game plan on if we move forward and also if we don't move forward your plan b doing it yourself, going to a competitor or whatever, this is also the game plan for that.

12:24Shelby Sapp:It's up to you though. And you seed a little bit of doubt in their game plan of whatever their plan B is, you know, doing it themselves, going to a competitor. That way there's more hesitancy and a higher level of risk attached to their plan B to where it makes it so easy for them to be like, okay, yeah, let's just execute on this rather than going through all of the headache of this. because a lot of the times people won't say no to you because they don't want it. They'll say no to you because they just don't get it. Like they're just not clear. I use the analogy when I'm talking to my girls.

13:00Shelby Sapp:I'm like, listen, if a guy, two guys text you, right? For a date, you're single, you're going on a date. Okay. Two guys text you. First guy is like, Hey, like I'll take you out. Like, where do you want to go? Like, what do you want to wear? What do you want to do after? Would you reply to that text? Probably not. Why? Because your brain has to do the work. The human brain loves to follow the path of least resistance. So when you kind of look at the text, there's a lot of like stuff going on. You're like, I don't have time for this. Like, I'll just ghost you. Versus the second guy he texts you, he's like, hey, I'm going to take you here, wear this, bring these shoes for after.

13:34Shelby Sapp:We're doing a little activity and I'll drop you back off at this time. Like he sets a game plan. And you look at that and you're like, one, not only do I love that you set a game plan for me, but number two, it's easy.

13:44Sophia:So it's like, okay, sure. I'll show up to that. And it's the same thing in sales. I'm fascinated because now you're at a point in your career where you're making millions of dollars a year. Can you break that down for us? Like what is your biggest income driver? Is it, are you doing part-time sales? Is it your courses that you're doing with your community? Is that through like brand deals or what is that?

14:01Shelby Sapp:No, I never have ever in my life taken a brand deal. And that's something I will stand firm on because I don't want people to be like, oh, she makes all her money from promoting these energy drinks. And I'm like, no, I just love energy drinks, you know? So I will never show up on social media and be an influencer because I'm a firm believer that influencers nowadays, unless you're the top 1%, they're broke. They don't make money. My influencer friends are texting me, hey, can I get into high ticket sales? Because it's a consistent cash flow side income driver. Wait, so okay, break it down for us.

14:33Let's start first. I'm a girl. I live in Miami and I don't like my job. I am interested in sales. What does the process look like for how do I get involved?

14:44Shelby Sapp:So if you're working a nine to five job or like a normal job, you don't love it. I will never tell a woman to quit her job the first day. Like that's just not smart. But the game plan a lot of these girls do is they'll come in being nurses, teachers, servers marketing girlies they'll have their own like main income I tell them like your five to nine income no you don't have to tell anybody what you do after work so keep your nine to five income to build your today kind of keep that stashed away and then your five to nine is where you build your future income so I would tell her start part-time take sales calls after work on the weekends and obviously there's training that is self-paced so they can do it around their full-time job And then I always say that there's about a month or two of hell because you'll be balancing a full-time job and part-time closing deals.

15:30Shelby Sapp:And then once you feel good about it and you've had like three or four deposits coming in, then you kind of hit a tipping point where you're like, oh my gosh, I'm making more taking these random sales calls than I am at my full-time job. Then I feel like it's a good time to reevaluate where you put your time and energy. And then tell us about how does it actually work to get paid in sales? So is it I sell a$100 ,000 course and I take a commission 10 % off of that? Is that how it works? Yeah. So high ticket offers are anybody that sells an online coaching or mentorship. So like fitness mentors, investing mentors, real estate mentors, sales mentors.

16:06Shelby Sapp:I have closers on my team. We all sell high ticket programs. So anywhere between three all the way up to like 100 grand for the program or sometimes more. The commission industry standard is about 10%. Some will pay more depending or sometimes a base. But safe to say is 10%. So if you're on like a$20 ,000 offer and you close it on a 45-minute sales call, you walk away with two grand. Okay. And how did you transition from pest control to doing high-ticket sales? Yeah. So it was so random. At the end of my last summer doing door-to-door sales, I was making$300 ,000 in a summer. Wow. So that's nuts.

16:39Shelby Sapp:And I was, what, 21, 20? Yeah. That was like a lot. I felt like a billionaire. You know, going back to my college town, I was buying all my friends' drinks. I'm like, don't worry, dinner's on me. Like, I loved it. And I kind of hit the peak of the door-to-door sales industry. And I just didn't love the culture. And in my head, I was always feeling this tug that I think a lot of women feel, which is I'm working in person right now. And this is fine for right now, like grinding, working in person, knocking doors in 120 degree heat, moving to Minnesota every year. But in my head, I was like, I want to be a mom one day.

17:14Shelby Sapp:And I want to be a very present mom. Like I don't want to be the mom that like leaves isn't with her kids at all. So that is like a big dream that I have in my head. So I felt always felt this tug of like, I want to do something remote. That's like more of a work from home lifestyle, but still do sales. So I was talking to one of my like good friends from Arizona at the end of my last summer doing door to door sales. And he was telling me how he's doing high ticket sales. And I didn't get it. I've never heard of it before. So he showed me some of his recorded calls. And I was like, okay well if he can close these deals like let me try so I took his next sales call and I closed the person in under 10 minutes and I made a grand so I was like oh my gosh like this is legit this is a huge space that I didn't even know existed and more more than the money but I was like this is a remote work from home lifestyle that I could actually fit around my life and so I decided to go all in on high ticket sales kind of while I was still at the door-to-door company they just didn't know about it.

18:14Shelby Sapp:And then I decided to go all in on it. And what were you selling? An SAT prep offer. Yeah. So a lot of it had to do with decision makers because you'd be talking to the kids, but like their parents would be paying for it. Or sometimes the college would like subsidize it. But it was a little bit more of just like a direct sell, but a little bit more hoops to jump through with the parents or whoever's paying for it. But yeah. And then I started posting sales tips online because I was like sales girl closing deals. And I was looking for a sales mentor that was a woman because I hated all of the sales tips that these guys would say online.

18:49Shelby Sapp:I would look at them and I would be like, okay, well, if I said that, that would never work. So I was looking for a sales mentor on social media, found nobody, nobody. And I'm like, there's no girl talking about how to close a deal. So I just opened up my phone and I'm like, okay, if you're in sales and you're a girl instead of saying this say this and it'll work 10 times better stuff like that just little sales tips for the girls and it blew up like blew the freak up my socials just like instantly like all these girls were like oh my gosh no one's ever talked about selling like a woman and what do you think is some of the best sales advice that you give to these girls it's your ability to stay positive because there's a lot of no's in sales you know any sort of sales.