What Really Happens at Billionaires' Private Parties (Michael Rubin)

0:00People have called you the great Gatsby of business. We've gotten a ton of comments on the white party. How did you decide to start doing that? Everyone who comes to that party knows they're going to meet people around them that are really good for them in business. You have the most important people and culture coming together and we've got multiple marriages. No way, who? I'm trying to think what I can say and what I can't say. People think, oh, it's Michael Rubin's fanatics. He's built this company worth$40 billion. Like, oh, it's easy. Man, we grind every day. People said like, Michael, you have no fucking chance.

0:24If you lost everything today and you were rebuilding from scratch, what would you do first? Hi, I'm Michael Rubin, and welcome to The Burry House. How important do you think relationships are in your business? Forget about my business. Relationships are everything in every business, okay? And people who don't understand that are completely missing it. Let me tell you something. Relationships don't matter during good times. When they matter is during tough times. When you're getting punched in the face, when things aren't going the way you want them to go. So for me, like, we all have strengths and weaknesses.

0:53One of my strengths is, like, I'm pretty, like, you know, good relationships. goes and I build these authentic relationships over a long period of time so when guys like you call me and say hey come out do my podcast here I am might have taken us a year to get here but we're still here so I think relationships are undervalued by most people I think people don't understand like again if things are going great you don't need a good relationship but shit goes wrong all the time every day for us shit goes wrong like people think oh you know it's Michael Rubin's fanatics he's built this company worth you know 30 or 40 billion dollars got 13 billion dollars in revenue 22 ,000 employees like oh it's easy man we grind every day we do this shit 18 19, 20 hours a day.

1:27I got 22 ,000 people that wake up saying, how do we relentlessly enhance the fan experience? We go to bed, think of the same thing. Without the relationships of the biggest stars in the world, the sports properties, and most importantly, sports fans, we got nothing. And tell us about some of the, obviously, we have been witness to seeing the way that you work with like Meek Mill and some of these amazing people, and especially the work that you've now done with Reform. Tell us a little bit more about that, and how did those relationships start? You know, the most interesting thing, and you guys probably know the Meek story, I, whenever someone would ask me to help with a charity before, I was the greatest person to ask because I would just want to give away money to have them not, to like finish the conversation as quickly as possible.

2:07Someone said, hey, Michael, I'm doing this thing. Can you come? Let me just write you a check. No, I can't. No, you can't honor me. No, you can't do this. No, but I'm happy to write you a check. Okay. And I was always a pretty charitable person financially, but I never put my time into it. The thing with Meek that changed my life and changed his life was, as everyone knows, Meek got sent to prison for two to four years for popping a wheelie on a motorcycle for the most simple probation violation. Because he had a crazy judge who was power hungry and who wanted to control him. And she sent him to prison for two to four years for literally getting a ticket for$62.50 for popping a wheelie on a motorcycle.

2:44What changed my life and what changed Meek's life is he said to me, call me on Friday. He's like, yo, can you come to court with me on Monday? I'm like, for what? He's like, you remember I told you I had that probation hearing. He's like, I really want you to see what happens when a black person goes to court. I'm like, do you really want me to come? And like, he had always told me all these stories and like, you hear them, but you don't fully appreciate it. To be honest, I think it's hard to believe because they seem so unbelievable. So I'm like, do you really want me to come? He's like, yeah.

3:14I'm like, no problem. I live 20 minutes away. I think the court hearing was like it. maybe one o 'clock. I get there and I watch this probation officer get up and said, you know, Robert Williams is a model probationer. He's done everything we've ever asked. We suggest no sentencing. She sits down. The DA gets up and says, you know, we agree we recommend no sentencing. And the judge starts screaming at the DA and the probation officer in front of me, saying, you don't know what you're talking about. You don't know the problem he is. Scream at them. Then they said, hey, they asked me like impromptu, can you get up and speak about your relationship with me can I got up I was really honest I'm like look you know this is a guy I've been around my kids my mom like um you know I love the guy is he perfect I don't know but I'm not perfect does he deserve to go to prison or popping a wheel on a motorcycle nothing makes less sense he's employing people he's paying taxes and I was like giving this great impassioned speech and like you know when someone's paying attention when they're not I looked this woman and she didn't hear a word I was saying she didn't care she tuned me out she sent me to jail for two to four years in front of me that was the most powerless i ever felt in my life i remember leaving there and i called the now governor of pennsylvania was the attorney general there josh shapiro i said like you know how do we get him out of prison and then i called the mayor and i called the then governor and like i didn't realize pretty hard to get someone out of prison like there's not just like some powerful person calls us hey it doesn't work that way so it was a wake-up call for me and um i was so shaken that myself and um jay-z's partner desiré perez who runs rock nation the two of us kind of spent the next five and a half months working to get him out of prison and it was like her mission and my mission and we talked you know 10 20 times a day and by the way there are times you just felt like giving up you're like fuck that i'm not giving up and he had a two to four year sentence in the supreme court of pennsylvania or just released five and a half months later.

5:12It turned out that the original thing he was arrested for, which is why he was on probation, the cops had made up the story and lied that they all came forward and admitted. It was like a scene out of training day of the movie. And so ultimately, he got out of prison five and a half months later. But the important thing was, the now governor of Pennsylvania, Josh Shapiro, said to me, like, Michael, shit always happens for a reason. Like, Meek is your special friend. You got to fix this for the everyday person. And that's how we created the Reform Alliance. myself, Jay-Z, Robert Craft, me, got together and started the Reform Alliance.

5:43And we've done some pretty powerful work. We started it in 2019, got more than a million people off of probation parole who shouldn't have been on it. It's been mathematically proven that a longer sentence actually hurts you. It doesn't help you. And by the way, I'm a really logical person. Someone goes out and commits a bad crime, they should go to prison. But if someone pops a wheel on a motorcycle, they shouldn't get sent back to prison for two to four years. That doesn't make a lot of sense. So yeah, my passion's business, and that's what I love to do. but actually making a difference in this world is really freaking important.

6:11Sophia:Before I met you, one thing I always admire about you is that you said you run your philanthropy like a business. What does that look like on the day-to-day level? What KPIs are you holding your team to? Yeah, look, I think a lot of charities operate like charities. And I think a lot of governments operate like governments. I think if you want to run a nonprofit, I think you got to run it like a business. So I think we try to be more effective. I think we try to count every penny like you you want to make sure hey just because we raised this money like we went out you guys have been to the two casino nights we've done we raised i think like 22 and 24 million dollars each of those two nights which is incredible how given people were but we got to value that money we got to treat it like it's the money you just raised for fear your startup you got to make sure that you're not wasting that money so i think um a lot of charities don't act that way so i think the proof is in the results you know we've spent less than 100 million dollars in the seven years we've started this cumulatively, and we've got more than a million people off of probation and parole that shouldn't have been.

7:11I'll tell you the best thing I can tell you about running this like a business without giving you the names of the people involved here. It's a great story. So when we decided to start reform, someone said, we need a goal of how many people are going to get off of probation and parole. So I called someone who was really smart, and they said, Michael, you should go with 10 ,000. I said, 10 ,000? I said there's four at this point there were 4.2 million people on probation and parole they probably half shouldn't be on probation and parole so probably the pool's two million two and a half million they said what do you want to go with I said a million they said how are you getting to a million I said half the people I think should get out they said well what kind of analysis have you done I said I haven't fucking made up the number we're gonna go for it by the way we got a million people out of the system in seven years that shouldn't have been in the system so like that's operating like a business come up with a bold goal, fucking go for it, and don't take no for an answer, okay?

8:05And so that's how you operate, and that's how entrepreneurs operate. And again, so many things have gone wrong on that journey, but like we've got it right a lot more than we've got it wrong.

8:13Sophia:You guys have deployed over$100 million. When you think about your legacy, like do you think you'll put billions of dollars into this and like a huge chunk of your net worth? I don't think this is one that needs billions of dollars, which is pretty cool. I think what we did here is we fixed the underlying laws. The problem with the laws is that they were so illogical so you could have one state like in california we're able to get the laws changed to where you couldn't be on probation for a um for a felony more than two years for misdemeanor more than a year that was logical in pennsylvania meek had a felony he was on probation for between the sentence he served and the sentence he had left it was like 20 years okay by the way you put any of the three of us on probation for 20 years one of us going to jail one night for sure like it's the every people make mistakes that's just life but i mean you imagine do you know it's a rule that you can't be around another felon.

9:01Okay. Well, guess what? You grew up in a tough neighborhood and a lot of people you grew up with have felonies. So it's actually illegal just to live with somebody or walk outside the street with somebody. So the system is made to, it's just a broken system. So we're fixing the underlying system. So it doesn't need billions of dollars. What it needs is logic. And I want to shift gears a little bit and ask about what I know we've gotten a ton of comments on, which is the white party. How did you decide to start doing that and why do you think it's become such a huge cultural phenomenon you know it was a much like simpler decision than people would think i bought a house in the hamptons in 2020 and um literally my buddy will macros i think you guys have met it's like we should do like we should do a fun party in the summertime and like i had done the super bowl party which was like our super bowl party had become the most important party of super bowl weekend and it gets the the athletes are the most important to us the stars are most important to us the owners the league executives our business partners so it brought up all the people that were most important so it was a really good way for us to bring people together that really benefited our ecosystem so when Will said that I was like yeah let's fucking do it and you know I think one of the things because relationships are so important to me it was kind of funny because I remember the first year doing it you're calling people and say hey man I'm doing this and we just I don't know how we've been named the white party I think we just like whatever it's the summertime so it's like you go white and we just started calling people and say like we're doing this party we're to keep it super tight and you know i remember um the first year like everyone showed up and for me the capability that i have that a lot of people don't have is that i'm very comfortable to really curate something really tightly and so that everyone knows when they walk into the party everyone who comes that party knows they're going to meet people around them that are really good for them in business i think you know for us the amount of great business things that have come out of that party the amount of deals that have come out of the party by the way marriages and we've got multiple marriages no way who um well um there's been there's been there's been multiple i'm trying to think what i could say and what i can't say let me just tell you people have met there um megan the stallion clay thompson met there okay they're not married but they met there um which i remember that night distinctly um we can say coco and um yeah dom and mitchell met there yeah um mil bamba and and his wife met there so like we've that's crazy we at the same night or different ones?

11:21Well, there's been four parties. I think it's three strong relationships. By the way, this is just something to think about. So we've created some great relationships, great, way more business opportunities than we live. I'm much better at creating the business opportunities than the relationships. But it's been like, it's like, look, I love bringing people together. It's a fun thing to do. Obviously, we're doing the big party for reform that we do every other year. I decided to rotate them. I actually decided at the end of this year that reform is such a great cost, but we've raised enough money for it now.

11:49We're just going to go back to the white party every year because I actually like giving money. I don't like asking people to give money. So we're just going to go back to the white party every year starting this July. But it's a fun party to do. Why is it so? Look, you have the most important people and culture coming together. And so I think that makes it super interesting. And I will say it's a little weird when you look outside your house and there's like hundreds of paparazzi, you know, with crazy cameras all outside. But it's like people love the party. It's so fun. It's, you know, it's one night to let loose here.

12:15I think people also feel safe there. Like I think the biggest stars in the world know they can come there and feel safe. And we met so many people at the White Party now that I think about it who are investors, advisors. And people were not just – I mean, it was a lot of fun. I had a lot of fun. But it definitely – you're right. What time did you make it till? Maybe like two or three. That's respectable. I think it was respectable. The story I like most about you that I saw actually online because I do – like social media in the morning when I go to bed was you falling down the stairs. Oh, that was so bad.

12:43That was a reform, right? You tripped over yourself? Yeah. Do we have any good footage of that? I'm sure so. I wish. Everyone took a video of it. Yeah, for sure. But I was just going to say - I wish. It was, yeah, okay, so basically - They'll come out each birthday, right? For anyone who didn't see it, I was at Reform, which is, you have a casino night party. So I was at the casino night party - Yeah, for the Reform charity. For the Reform charity. And so there's a gigantic spiral staircase, and obviously I'm a little lit, so I'm walking down, and I trip, I fall, I tumble down the stairs, so embarrassing.

13:12Literally, my leg is bleeding. And so I'm dazed, and I'm getting up, and I think Phoebe's right in front of me, so I'm giving her my hand. and instead it's Jay-Z and he's like are you okay and I was like oh fuck like this is so embarrassing and I was like oh I'm totally fine right like my legs literally bleeding I'm very much in pain but I'm like no no no sir don't worry I'm so fine thank you and then he was like you're a little embarrassed aren't you it's okay don't be and he was so nice and I was like that's really nice of you like thank you like no don't worry and then Phoebe's like in the corner okay to be fair my

13:43Sophia:hand was also extended my hand was not taken which was hurtful well I was just like I have a concussion I think as this is going on how did you not at least get your camera out for the latter part of the like I understand you missed the fall but you could have at least got like the highlights you want us to post a photo of Sophia's like bloody knee like gushing out well talking talking to Jay saying she was too busy winning blackjack against Tom Brady is what she was doing what a night actually it's a fun look we look I do three big events a year I do the white party which is you know kind of the most intimate you know bringing people that are so important to us in one way or different together i do the super bowl festivities which is like look the nfl is our biggest business and you know we have the best party of the weekend there and we bring so many great people together and then we do fanatics fest which is actually for the fans we're gonna have 200 000 fans at javits you guys came to that right yeah yeah which is and by the way each like this year is going to be so crazy like each year we've done it now this will be our third time that that's probably the most humbling thing to me is to see every big star coming out to support their fans, to support fanatics, to do great things and kind of have the best relationship they can with their fans.

14:50It's so fun. So to me, those are the only three events we do. It's funny. People are like, oh, Michael, you throw so many parties. I do three parties per year. I do Fanatics Fest for 200 ,000 fans. I do the white party, and I do Super Bowl. And that's it. Those are my parties. You know who else we became friends with? Because of your parties is the Nader Sisters. And you were friends with them before they even had the reality show. They're a very shy crew. Yeah, very introverted, trying to come out of their shell. Just kidding. No. so shy well it's funny because also something that i realized is i met a bunch of these people like years ago like through all these parties and everything and i feel like you have such an eye for up-and-coming talent like i feel like people don't realize the rooms are so curated like it's kim kardashian's sure all these great people but there's also people who now have become like such rising stars i i think that's the way i learn and so for me you know like i still i really can barely read like people don't believe that I was watching someone um somebody a day or two ago had a book they had the Andrew Sorkin's book 1929 that he just wrote and like hey I'm like oh how's the book they're like tell me it's really good they're like have you read it I'm like I haven't read a book since ninth grade literally like the last book I read was the unauthorized story of Phil Knight in ninth grade okay that said I learned differently I learned by talking to people by bringing people around me that I can learn from that I can help and so everyone's always like oh oh, Michael, you're so gracious.

16:07You know, you're trying to help me. But if I sit with you guys, yeah, I'm going to try to help you in every way I can, but I'm also going to learn from you guys and the things that you're talking about. So that's my process. So for me, I think we are very thoughtful about making sure that everyone that we put into room at the white party or at our Super Bowl party is someone that is be mutually beneficial for the people there. So when you come to the white party, I think you could ask the biggest stars in the world or reform when Jay helps you from your traumatic fall. you know I think what people say is they know who's ever there is someone they want to meet because they're a special person and I do love identifying young talent that's how I learned I can think back to so many people you know just even give you an example people who some people love and some people hate but I remember meeting Jake Paul as a 15 year old or a 16 year old I look at this guy he was this YouTube star and now he's developing himself as a real boxer and like I look at that and I look at what a great marketer he is I look at his brother I'm like these guys are some of the best marketing celebrities that you think about but like we're all always learning from each other and that's you know the same thing with I think all of my relationships yeah because you've had Alex Earl there Libby Dunn there like you always have had the up-and-coming people who are of the moment so early in your orbit that it's always been something I thought was really cool and it generally starts very authentically like you know the D 'Amelios yeah yeah well the D 'Amelios came from Kylie because Kylie was like my daughter Kylie was like when she was let's say 12 or 13 and you know charlie and dixie were at the absolute top of the the tiktok craziness kyle's like oh i really like these guys they're cool and their dad believe it or not worked for a company that i subsequently bought mitchell ness okay and so like we just all got together and we were all excited to spend time but i do like learning from all types of people and i can i can tell you often as you get bigger you can get set in your ways and we can be really smart who's the young disruptor who's the person who's going to take out the business model that you created.

17:59So I love learning from people. I love giving to people and they can learn from me. So I'm, I do spend more time, like I'm very conversational. And it's the way I learn. I mean, I was as bad as a student as you could possibly imagine. Definitely the opposite of the two of you. I was, and I did have every learning disability. I mean, I couldn't read. I did have dyslexia, speech impediment. Um, and I was just generally terrible in school and bored by it. Um, and as much as I talk about how bad of a student I was, I was really that bad of an athlete like I just was always the guy I get picked last on a team and like just wasn't you didn't have good hand-eye coordination and for me like I loved working from what I like as long as I can remember I can remember loving working so like when I was an eight-year-old I had like five you know side hustles I was you know selling snow shoveling you know driveway to driveway and going out hiring kids and paying them you know a buck an hour whatever it is for you know 45 years ago and you know selling for 20 bucks a driveway and you know I was selling um vegetable seeds door to door and making stationary on the computer and like I just love to do that so for me um you know I think you gravitate to what you're good at and that's something I was always good at and really always loved from as long as I can remember and I've been in business non-stop since I've been you know legitimately 11 or 12 years old so I'm now 53 I think I've been doing this for 41 42 years is like my obsession.

19:23And would you say you're really good at making money? I don't like I don't think about it is making I think the way I think about it is, I think I'm pretty good at figuring things out and then bringing people together to go after that opportunity. I'm very much like a, what really drives me is winning in business. That's the way I compete. So I think one of the great things about being a business person, one of the more difficult things about being one of the best athletes in the world, eventually, when you're an athlete, you have to stop playing like, Like, you know, eventually LeBron James will retire.

19:51Tom Brady eventually retired. You know, eventually father time gets to you in sports. In business, you can do this for as long as you're alive. And I like that I can play at the highest level every single day. And for me, that completely drives me. So yeah, of course, do I think I'm, you know, pretty good at, you know, creating value? I do. But like what I love about it is, you know, coming up with big ideas, doing shit people tell me is impossible and kind of bringing people together. And like, you know, we were just talking about getting punched in the face. Like I get punched in the face all the time.

20:17I fucking love that. That's fun. That's sport.

20:19Sophia:You mentioned your daughter. I'm curious how being a father has changed who you are as an entrepreneur. Humbling. I mean, by the way, all three of my, it's funny, we have a deal we're in the middle of doing right now because my three-year-old told me that she, Daddy, why don't you have the trading cards for this? I'm like, fucking right. Why don't we not do trading cards? I call the person we're in the middle of doing the deal and it's gonna be very big for us. So you have to learn from everyone around you. Imagine that I have a three-year-old that I'm taking input from into our business. I think you have to listen to consumers.

20:47And so to me, you know, Kylie is obviously like at this point more like my friend than my daughter. She's 20 years old. She's, you know, it's funny at this point, Kylie, like she more hazes me on a daily basis. Dad, like, why are you a bitch? Why are you going to bed so early? Why can't you drink as many shots as I can drink? It's more entertaining. But it shows I trained a tough one who likes to give it back to me now. What do you think is the biggest thing she's learned from you? Work ethic, without any question. Yeah. and by the way that's got as good and bad parts but I'd say what all of my kids know but particularly Kylie who you know I raised you know a tremendous amount of her life she was with me and just moving around with me moving around is work ethic she saw me always grinding from when she woke up till she went in the bed I'll tell you right now when I'm in Philadelphia a few days a week my two little ones who are now five and three as soon as they wake up they know where to go which is my office and they get up one gets up at like six the other gets up at like 6.30 and they run in and then they do projects and work in my office while I'm working and they see me working.

21:49And so it's like, I think I'm teaching them about work ethic as a three and five year old and about hustling as a three and five year old. And hopefully that translates. And what time do you wake up? Yes, I just looked at this in my womb. I slept four hours and 34 minutes. It was not a good night's sleep. I'm trying, the doctors have told me I'm killing myself that actually sleep is really important. I thought, I honestly, until a couple of years ago, thought like sleep was like, you're a bitch if you need a lot of sleep. That was my mentality. okay and then i realized i'm actually the idiot and i'm stupid and so the doctor basically said to me like michael when you look at all your signs like you're taking decades off your life and so i've now got my sleep up to six hours and three minutes average which is the hardest thing i've had to ever do what was it before that like four and a half and i'm completely functional i've slept four hours and 34 minutes yesterday per my whip i feel great you don't drink coffee never once in my life wow never once okay so then they tell you that you're killing yourself you get it up to six?

22:41603. Killing it. 603. You're killing it. How do you measure it? Whoop, baby. I'm addicted to this thing. I'm firmly addicted to this. It's like I compete with myself every day. And I'll tell you the most demoralizing thing because I love making fun of myself. When I first got the whoop, I didn't realize they had a whoop age. And when the whoop age came out, it told me that I was 7.3 years older than my actual age. And then you can go unpack it and why it was sleep was the biggest thing was by far and away number one and then my heart rate was too high because i'm like so hyperactive i'm like now i'm actually working on my breathing in the night when i go to bed and i'm actually sleeping more so i'm now down to three years older than i was by the end of this year i'm going to be fucking younger than my actual age i'm going to beat the whoop to death we and you were also so open about taking glps you dressed up wait what did you dress of us for Halloween.

23:33Will and I dressed up as giant shots of Maggiore. We loved it. People take themselves too seriously. I was talking to somebody last night. They're like, man, as a joke with these two idiots over here that allowed me to do it, two or three years ago, yeah, you know exactly what I'm talking about. Two or three years ago, we were at Baseball All-Star, and they gave me the pitch, and I took some pitches, and I was trying to throw as fast as I could, and the pitches, most of them were terrible. I said, get the worst pitches and let's put them on social media. Why? because I want to show that you could take, I could suck in school, I could suck in sports, look what I could do in business, okay?

24:09Now, of course, the internet wants to twist it around, but I don't care. I think it's funny. Every month that reel comes back out, how's this guy running one of the most important sports companies in the world if he can't throw a baseball pitch? I post the worst fucking pitches purposely to make a point. But you also have to not take yourself seriously. So I remember being on CNBC and Andrew Sorkin's like, man, you look great. I'm like, yeah, because I take Bongiorno. How else do you think I look that good? He's like, wait, you're admitting that? I'm like, do you think I was 30 pounds fat for my entire life and then suddenly I come in here and I'm 30 pounds lighter?

24:44What do you think it is? He's like, you're the first CEO to admit to being on Bongiorno. I'm like, everyone who was fat who got skinny took Bongiorno. Promise you start with that. It's like 1 % that actually did it the hard way. Bongiorno's like the greatest drug in the world. I used to be 206 pounds now I'm 165 pounds I feel great like thank you Mangiorno they should pay you I mean this is I'm gonna tell you one thing if someone came to me four years ago and said Michael give me half of everything you have to make you 165 pounds obviously please take it okay Mangiorno it wasn't half it was a it was a pretty good transaction how has it changed your life oh you just feel better I mean listen I'm like I'm working my I'm working 18 hours a day every day of the week, seven days a week, most weeks of the year.

25:29Like, you need to feel good. I feel better. I got two little kids. You know, they have no mercy on you. So it's like, I feel so much better. I see so many people. I am literally a pusher of Mind Journal. I've got hundreds of people on Mind Journal. You need to invest in them. The mad thing was I called my family office. when it came out I'm like guys there's two drugs Ozempic and Mindjorn we gotta buy the companies they came back they're like well one's worth like 75 billion one's worth Lily Lily was one company and the I forget the Novak was the other company we're like they're like 150 billion 75 billion I'm like well let's just buy the stocks they're like it's already priced in the stocks are like quadruple stocks have been amazing in the last couple years they are both great drugs okay wow I love it I mean one of you guys need it so it's nice It's not relevant for the two of you.

26:23It was very relevant for me. And I'm curious also for you in terms of like, if you lost everything today and you were rebuilding from scratch, like what do you think are the most important things you would do? So let me first tell you that would be fun. Okay. And if you're a real entrepreneur, you know exactly what I'm saying. Okay. If you're in it for the action, because you fucking love to play the game every day, that'd be fun. I say all the time. If what are you, you said 23, 24. I say this to people all the time. I have so many people give me the dumbest response. I ask people all the time, to people who are really well off, if you had to give up all of your money to be 10 years younger, would you do it?

27:03People are like, hell no. Most people say to me, hell no. I would do that in one second. If you told me I could be 43 and take everything I have, and I would love doing it again, it'd be fun.

27:13Sophia:I had braces when I was 13, so. Oh, but you're too young to understand this. You're too young to understand this. I don't need to go back to the math team days. I don't know about that. But for me, like, listen, you only have so many years. You don't think about this when you're 23 or 24. When you're 53, you're like, okay, well, even with advanced medicine, can I live to 100? Can I live to 90? By the way, I want to live healthy. So you're like, time is the most precious asset that we have. And so for me, the idea of doing it all over again, I like that. I'm turned on by that. That's fun for me.

27:42That's like why I play the game. So think about how I reinvented Phonetics just in the last five years. have started the sports betting and iGaming business, started the collectibles business, created Fanatics Fest. Now we're starting a Fanatics Credit Card. To me, if you're a good thinker and you're good at getting great people around you, you can do amazing things. And so that doesn't scare me at all. It actually gets me excited. And what would you do first? I'd just get up and go grind. I'd figure the fuck out. That ain't hard. True. But I'm curious, for a business, what do you think are the most important decisions you need to make early on?

28:15Well, without question, it's getting the strategy right. Like so many people have bad strategies. Like if you're like, hey, I'm inviting this great product, but there's not a good business model. It could be a good product, but it's not a good business. You got to create a great product or great business that's also a good business model. Then you got to get the right people. So to me, it's really that simple. If I want to create a great business, I need to think about is this idea, can we make this better for who it impacts? Is this a good business? Is it good for everybody? How can I disrupt?

28:42And then how do I get the right people to do that? If you figure out the strategy and you marry it with the right people, you got a good chance of killing it. And what do you think are the reasons why all these incredible top performers, I mean, I love Jessica Jackson and she is absolutely dedicated to perform. She lives and breathes it. How do you think you make these people so inspired to love working with you? Well, I think someone like Jessica is so inspired by the mission. I don't think it's me at all. You know, I think where I probably have more of an impact would be at Fanatics. And I'd say, I think what people see is we have a, Like, we work, it's funny.