Deborah Meaden: Lessons in Business from a Dragon

0:00So what is it would put you off an investment then? Oh, that's really easy. Really easy for me. I've got to be able to trust the individual. And I don't care how good the opportunity is. If I don't trust that person, I am not getting involved. Life is far too short. And if I can't trust them in their pitch, then I know that when I come out and I'm in business and they, you know, they have an issue, they're going to be the ones who sweep it under the carpet and try to keep it away from me. When in fact, what you should be doing is saying, how can you help me? This is the problem, Deborah, how can you help?

0:33You know, so I'm not interested in chasing my tail trying to find out what's really going on in the business. I want people who are going to be really upfront with me and use me properly as a partner. Hello, it's Elizabeth Day from How to Fail here. My next guest is the award-winning investigative journalist and best-selling author acclaimed for his deep dives into subjects like the Troubles in Say Nothing and Corporate Power in Empire of Pain. Yes, it's Patrick Radden Keefe. We talk about families, we talk about the stories we tell ourselves and how to write them. And then there's this. The legal threats don't scare me, I will say.

1:10I get a lot of those. The people, the gangsters never threaten me in a kind of outright way. Listen to How to Fail wherever you get your podcasts. Hello there, we're back. Or I'm back. Ben Shepard here, flying solo because my partner in crime, the one and only Joel Dommert, has disappeared away on an aeroplane, business class, to the other side of the world because he's gone into the jungle. He is going to be busy working for the next month upside down, essentially. so he's left me in charge of the podcast all on my own. I feel a little bit like Tinky Winky without his dipsy or George without his zippy or Professor Flaffle without his bagpuss.

1:51I'm missing my right hand but the good news is we are going to persevere and Joel will still be involved with interesting content throughout today's show. We have launched our men's skincare survey as we've been banging on for the last few weeks. We want to launch the biggest ever male skincare survey to happen in the UK. If you go to thebusinessmen.co.uk or you go onto our Patreon, you can find the link to the survey and the information you can share with us will be hugely valuable. I think you might quite enjoy it. Try it. You might like it. If you don't like it, try it. You might like it. As the great Pauline Carf used to say.

2:33Hello, it's Elizabeth Day from How to Fail here. My next guest is the award-winning investigative journalist and best-selling author acclaimed for his deep dives into subjects like the Troubles in Say Nothing and Corporate Power in Empire of Pain. Yes, it's Patrick Radden Keefe. We talk about families, we talk about the stories we tell ourselves and how to write them. And then there's this. The legal threats don't scare me. I will say I get a lot of those. The people, the gangsters never threaten me in a kind of outright way. Listen to How to Fail wherever you get your podcasts.

3:13Now, if you've ever thought about starting a business, you want to turn your side hustle into something a bit more serious, maybe you've already have a small business or you're an entrepreneur or you're looking for some sort of investment, you are going to love today's Businessmen podcast because I'm absolutely thrilled that we're going to be joined by one of the most successful dragons that has ever been in the Dragon's Den. She's been there for decades. There's nothing she doesn't know about business. And I'm really, really excited that she's coming on the podcast to try and help me and the clown Domit get something going with our own business.

3:46Absolutely thrilled to welcome Debra Meadon onto the Businessmen. And Debra, thank you so much for joining us today. I'm looking forward to it. So I have interviewed you on a number of different topics over the years, whether they are business, whether it's strictly, whether it's being a personality on television, whether you're strictly being a dragon. But all of a sudden, I'm interviewing you and trying to pick your brains for a very different reason. As I know that you know, Joel and I have decided that we would love to launch a male skincare brand, something we have no experience of. We've got no idea about business necessarily, but very keen and enthusiastic to learn.

4:28So being able to speak to you and understand how your career started and ended up becoming the success that it is that we see today is a real privilege. So thank you, firstly. Firstly, can I ask, what do you think about our idea of launching a business well i guess i don't know unless you tell me it's reason to be because of course there are men's skincare ranges um and uh you know other than every skincare product that comes into the den um we're told it's the best it does this for you you know so but but you've got to be able to explain your reason to be so i don't know what i think about your men's care range okay so what's its reason to be all right maybe we'll come i'll come on to that in just a bit because i think that's a really brilliant point isn't it because actually understanding the why is fundamental to all of these things before we get to us and our business let me let me find out a bit more about you um because what we see these days deborah i'd much rather talk about i know you would i know you would but but i know i know i know but we'll have a we'll have a fight about this uh i'm going to win this bit though because actually there's a lot of people that are going to be listening to the podcast that are launching businesses or interested in launching their own venture, coming up with an idea, maybe have a great idea, but aren't necessarily across how to make those next bits work.

5:47And so having someone like you who we see as a successful businesswoman on television and proven track record is an amazing opportunity. So take me all the way back for people that wouldn't know. How did your career begin? So slightly, quite in the unusual way. I followed an ex-boyfriend to Italy. Whether he wanted me to follow him or not, I have no idea. But followed him to Italy. We were still really good friends. Stayed with him for a while. And actually, I sort of got into a bit of a rut. I thought, I don't know what my life... I know I want to be in business, but I really don't know what I want to do.

6:27I haven't invented the latest or greatest. Anyway, I went over to Italy, ran out of cash, went along to an exhibition and found four companies who were, well, loads of companies making beautiful things, but I convinced four of those companies to allow me to import their goods into the UK. So I would sort of be an agent for them. A great way to start a business because you don't need a lot of capital. You know, they provided all the goods for the first exhibition. And when it came to actually selling the goods, we did something that was called factoring then. which, you know, invoice discounting.

7:06So, you know, I've got an order for£10 ,000. Will you, your invoice discounter, will you lend me£7 ,000 against that£10 ,000? So it was a great way to start a business. And you were, what, about 19? Yes, 19. And so it's sort of things, you're talking about artisan type ceramics, glass, bits and pieces like that. Beautiful stuff. Actually, I did have a remnant on my desk until my cat knocked it off. So one of the original pieces? One of the original pieces. Really cool, really, really cool stuff. And, you know, we talked very quickly about reason to be, but, you know, that was my reason to be. I just thought, gosh, I've never seen anything like that.

7:51And I'm sure it won't be a massive market, but I can see it would be a good market. So yes, I managed to convince them to let me import it into the UK. So what was that experience like in terms of sort of navigating the initial stages of business and understanding the financial side of things and successes or failures along the way? I mean, I kind of been brought up with my parents talking a lot about business. So I thought I knew how business worked. But of course, the arrogance of the young actually could be a massive gift because I didn't know what I couldn't do. you know so I was but I am quite a quick thinker so I you know I kind of worked it out as I went along but it failed it didn't work it didn't work so I well it did work but I'll explain the um I bought all the goods in to top drawer which is kind of the high-end homeware exhibition and sold into Harrah's Harvey Nichols uh Fenix and then so that was the first year bought all the goods in second year nothing oh well as in they didn't want to reorder or they didn't well no the italian companies bypassed me and sold straight into the stores so they took your brilliant idea and then gazumped you or usurped you i mean i had them under contract i had an agency agreement but i didn't have and this is a really good lesson early on you know i could choose to either spend my energy and what little cash i had um fighting that or i could say let's put that down to experience and move on to the next business, which I did.

9:23And that was a really good lesson. You know, I always say to businesses, know when to hang on in there and know when to call it a day. And so you called it a day with the ceramics business, put it down to experience. And what happened next? Well, out of that, and this usually happens in life, when I was in Italy, I'd seen a fashion brand called Stefanel, a bit like Benetton, slightly higher end than Benetton. and I was walking down Knightsbridge and I saw Estefanello. I thought, oh gosh, if they're coming into the UK, I wonder if they're franchising. So I literally popped into the store and luckily the head offices were downstairs and I said, you know, who do I talk to?

10:02And they said, oh, you're in luck actually. The MD's in today. And anyway, long story short, fantastic guy called Carlo Mugello. He saw me there and then And, you know, how old was I then? 20? You know, mid-20s? Saw me there and then and said, OK, I'll come and look at the stall that you're considering. And if I like it, we'll do it. All of those stars aligned that you went in that day, he happened to be there and said, let's take this opportunity and see what's going on. Absolutely. Absolutely. And he came down. And so I had a friend in Taunton in Somerset who had a store, had a beautiful shop in a sort of lovely little lane.

10:47And so we became partners and we put Stephanel into there. So and that made money. That was that was like my first taste of, yeah, OK, I can do this. So that was a success. So what's that like then when you've put something together like that and then suddenly the business that you've brought and you've envisioned being somewhere is a success? Well, it was brilliant, but it didn't really satisfy me. So it was while it was all being set up and it was exciting and negotiating and, you know, letters of credit. I've never done a letter of credit, you know, so it's all very exciting. But of course, when it turned into running a shop on a day to day basis, it lost its interest.

11:26So I actually sold out to my business partner and then I went on to run a prize bingo. So you went from Italian fashion to bingo calling? Absolutely. So what made you go, okay, it's got to be bingo. It's got to be running a prize bingo hall. Well, I had an opportunity to run a concession inside Butlins. And, you know, and actually I had been brought up around hospitality. So it was something I thought, okay, this is interesting. Let's give that a go. um so and it was actually at its time it was probably the busiest prize bingo in the country um it was really it was i i it's the business that i think uh it sort of solidified all of the stuff that i picked up um and it bungled it into a place and then really really taught me about customers because they are there they are in front of you and if they don't like you they tell you and if they do like you they're immensely loyal you know so whatever ever whatever other knowledge I'd picked up that was the bit that wrapped it into the customer facing that's really interesting and I think my experience of of bingo or be having been lucky enough to sort of go around some of those places and I've worked at some of the holiday parks where you had your bingo game as well previously people that play bingo are very passionate about it as well aren't they they are And like you say, they will tell you exactly how they feel if you're getting it right or if you're getting it wrong.

12:57Well, do you know what I used to love? And my husband, I make my husband jump because I do remember people really well. And we used to walk around the holiday parks, which I had later. And I would remember, you know, we had 150 ,000 people a year, but I would recognise people. I'd know that they just had a child because it's important to people. But I used to love at Butlins, people would literally turn up on a Saturday. At the time, it was sort of Saturday to Saturday. People took full weeks. They'd turn up on a Saturday and they'd walk in to the bingo with their suitcases. We were their first stop before they'd even checked into their accommodation.

13:34Or unpack or anything. Or anything because they would get a welcome from me. I would know them. Oh, hello. Oh, you're back. It's so lovely to see you. And that's incredibly powerful. So the customer is absolutely key. and looking after the customer, customer service, customer facing is fundamental to this. Would you say the success of all of your businesses ever since as well? I think it's been at the heart. I think one of the things that I can do, if you think I went from high-end Italian fashion to bingo, so one of the things that I think I can do very well is put myself in my customer's position.

14:11And instantly, every time I make a decision, I kind of walk around the desk and I look at it from the customer's point of view. So I think that bit of it has really been a help for me in business. So the bingo was a huge success. And then when, so when did you start moving into your own holiday parks? Well, that was, so they were a family business. Yeah. And so my parents had bought, well, first of all, I went into amusement arcades, which is an easy, I mean, you know, that's a regular step. The host of Tipping Point, which is based around one of the greatest amusement arcade games that we all spent a lifetime playing.

14:51I have a real affinity for amusement arcades at the seaside. I know. Absolutely. And actually, they're very different. You know, we went through it all when I was in the arcade industry. You know, I firmly believe that they offered a fantastic service on a wet, rainy day. What do you do? You know, and it's not an expensive way. you know you put your tuppence in the pusher yeah you're gonna stand there for hours so so you know anyway amusement our case um and but but my my parents had bought a holiday park and they were with two actually they just bought the second one and they were looking to retire and they said look if you want to come back into the business now's the time and I thought actually it's hospitality is something that I know and I love so um you know I could see it was either that or they were either going to sell or they were going to get in management.

15:42So I stepped back in. It took some thinking about because I think, you know, it's a different thing working with a family business. And then sure enough, because our paths were beginning to separate, they were looking towards an exit. I was looking to a long term future. I then did a management buyout.

16:09that's quite grown up i mean i mean seriously sort of having sort of been through on the periphery not of a management buyout but i know i know what's sort of involved could you describe what's involved when you suddenly go right we're going to do something like that well unsurprisingly my parents wanted the highest price for the business and I wanted to pay the lowest price for the business so somewhere in the middle there but what we did do and actually I think this is why even when I was working in the family business it was a success we always said you look after the business the business looks after the family so when we're actually in business we are in business that is it so we have our business heads on we had two sets of advice obviously different advisors who look mildly startled at times because, you know, we were literally negotiating against each other.

17:02But the good news is, you know, we're best of friends. I won't pretend it doesn't get tense. Yeah. You know, because there's a little voice in me that said, but I'm your daughter, you know, and there was, you know, but I completely, you know, was a grown-up. You said it's a very grown-up thing. There are times when you do have to say, be a grown-up. And equally, like you said earlier, we have to put things down to experience and understand along the process what you're getting from that. So the management buyout and you bought your parents out of the business, then you started running the business.

17:35When eventually you sold that business as well, or I think you sold a portion of it first, didn't you? And then remained in. Can I ask what you managed to achieve at that stage, just in terms of the value that you'd managed to get into the business? so um the first time we we i did a partial exit so i still retained 25 of the business that was the the whole deal was 33 million wow um and then the second time it was an 80 million pound deal now which is phenomenal does the 19 year old importing ceramics just a few i mean essentially i don't know how many years it was later could she have imagined that at some point down the line, she'd be selling a business for essentially over£100 million.

18:19She wasn't really imagining anything. I think, you know, and actually people kind of expect me to be, so what's next on the cards? Not really that kind of person. I think a lot of entrepreneurs aren't. You know, I think it's more about spotting opportunities. So I wasn't really looking forward, although I was always confident that I would build myself a good life. Whatever that good life was going to look like in the future I knew that I would or knew I mean who knows but I believed that I was going to grow um build myself a good life and a good life to me is a life in which you can choose pretty much choose what you want to do and that might be work but it might also be not work yeah so uh so so yeah but to be honest it you get so caught up in the deal that it doesn't really mean anything until it happens I know that sounds odd but you know you you're going through the due diligence.

19:12And again, they're trying to drive the price down and they're trying to find every little thing wrong with the business. And you're saying, well, so what? If you want it, pay the money in it, not go away. But that's an interesting point, though, because you say you get so invested in the deal when it's actually happened. Is there an element of anticlimax about it? There is. And I think I was very lucky because Dragon's Den came along after the first deal. Yeah. So I was already, I'd already started investing and then Dragons came along. So it enabled me to very seamlessly move from being in my own business into investing in other businesses.

19:51So it took my time up, but I have observed a lot of people who, their business has been their identity. And actually when you sell it, you know, you're pumped up because you're all, you know, there's this real tension in any deal as real tension. and then the day after anybody who imagines you look at your bank balance and then go ha ha ha that's amazing it just doesn't happen like that because you do run the risk of losing your identity if you haven't found the thing that you want to do afterwards. Dragon's Den's been such a phenomenal success and it's still I just love it sitting down and watching the people come and pitch and then you guys all dissecting the idea and and the ones they go for the ones you don't go for and then the ones that we see work in the press the ones that you didn't go for that we see work or the one you know it's absolutely fascinating um do you have regrets when it comes to decisions that you make or is it or do you still put it down to experience i'm not a regret kind of person i don't think there are many situations where regret is a constructive emotion um i've i have the view i give it my all i give it i do that i make the offer that I am happy with and I win the day or I don't win the day but I do know and this is experience that another amazing business is going to walk through those den doors or land on my desk and and you know so there's always something coming up and there as far as I'm concerned there's no point looking back and thinking I wish yeah what could have been you know what could have been you know it's much more important because then you'll miss those opportunities that are coming towards you so you know it's kind of damn right what's next yeah well so what's your attitude towards risk then and and do you think you've become less more risk averse as you become more experienced or has your appetite changed um i think that's there's a mixed answer to that um i'm not a gambler so i don't take gambles you know i'm not one of those if i don't even started with the bingo game i mean which essentially oh all right okay well that's other people taking gambles yeah yeah yeah no but i don't really i don't i don't like gambles and what i mean by that is i don't i like to understand a picture before i then decide how much risk i'm prepared to take um and i think gamblers are quite happy to say well red or black you know i don't really need to understand it everyone's told me crypto is the next best thing so i'll chuck my money in there you know if i'm going into crypto i'll want to know okay why this one why you know what are the mechanics around this so i tried to admit i'm a risk taker but i like to mitigate those risks by knowing as much as i think i should know um about any opportunity yeah now there's always risk because you could you know this is not i don't get everything right i just get more right than i get wrong that's all i need to do have you gone into crypto is that something that you've thought of looked at and got you know it everybody's talking about it it feels like it's there or yeah i feel that i fiddled around with it um but you know it does at the moment i mean other than i wish i bought more bitcoin yeah um don't we all um so you know i play around with those a bit just because i feel like i should know how they work yes you know and it's small amounts of money thinking well let's just find out how this all works and it sort of get it then also means that I follow what's going on.

23:16Yeah. But not in a big way. I do think, however, it is the way, you know, when the Bank of England's looking at its own digital currency, you know, it will become, you know, much more stable, much more mainstream. Yeah. And accessible as well. Because I think it seems a little bit inaccessible to lots of people that don't want to take that risk. How do you, I mean, the other thing that's becoming really apparent to Joel and myself as we're building this business is how consuming it is. The extraneous stuff, the number of decisions that have to be made, the number of meetings that you have to have um how do you how have you always managed to balance that and and there must have been times in your career where you're going through a very uh difficult complicated buyout or sales pitch or something how do you stop that from in fact it sort of getting in the way of your personal life and your mental health have you have you got better at balancing that i well I've definitely got better.

24:08So I've always realized that you can't keep yourself at peak fitness at all times. It's no different to an athlete. You know, they don't keep themselves Olympic fit all the time. They make sure that they've got the reserves when they need the reserves. And I think business is no different. So I have learned that I was not always this way, by the way. I was the first in and last out. You know, I used to do crazy hours, but it didn't take me long to realize that I just need to be really effective and to be effective I need my whatever your downtime is you know everybody's downtime is different it might be running it might be boxing it might be you know whatever your downtime is everybody needs a place to make sure that they are properly recharged so that when they need to be totally focused and you've got to bring your a game you can bring your a game what's your what do you do to relax is it chasing chickens around I find that really stressful I've actually got a red mark on my forehead from going in one of the hedges God knows what anybody thought I was doing this morning She was trying to catch She was trying to catch some cockerels that got delivered to the door generously by somebody Anyway, sorry, go on What was the question?

25:19How do you relax? So I ride I have horses I try and get at least Monday and Friday in Somerset which gives me hopefully three or four days riding a week. So riding and animals and taking yourself out of the thinking of the business. You know, I think that can just give you a rest sometime. Just think about other things, know what you care about, know what you're passionate about and be able to give your brain a rest from the things that start running around in your head if you let them get away with it. Yeah, you need space to breathe, don't you? Right, so let's talk about investment then, because when we see you fielding all these potential business ideas in the den, and I'm sure more come across your desk in everyday life as well.

26:18What is the sort of idea that gets you excited to invest money, Deborah? Well, it's not necessarily the idea. It's the combination of the idea, the person and their ability to explain why them or the people, why them, you know, and to explain their market, you know, their market so that I've got to know how much they know. So I can't honestly say, you know, I'm often asked now, so which area would you invest in? Well, of course, I'm interested in things like AI, particularly agentive AI, which is the ones, you know, the agents, the ones that sit on your computer and trying to help you. Yes. I'm very interested in all of that.

27:06But, you know, somebody could come up with a DIY little new pencil thing, you know, and that too, if I understand why it's needed, that is of much interest to me. So it's less about the areas and it's much more about the why that person, you know, what do they know about it, you know, and why that particular thing. So what is it would put you off an investment then? Well, that's really easy, really easy for me. I've got to be able to trust the individual and I don't care how good the opportunity is. If I don't trust that person, I am not getting involved. life is far too short. And if I can't trust them in their pitch, then I know that when I come out and I'm in business and they, you know, they have an issue, they're going to be the ones who sweep it under the carpet and try to keep it away from me.

27:57When in fact, what you should be doing is saying, how can you help me? This is the problem, Deborah, how can you help? You know, so, and I'm not interested in chasing my tail, trying to find out what's really going on in a business. I want people who are going to be really upfront with me and use me properly as a partner. Well, it's interesting you talk about trust because you've known me for a number of years and we've shared all sorts of sofas and interviews and moments together. I don't know how well you know Joel, but I'm sure you know who Joel is and what Joel does. And Joel has actually put together a pitch for you, Deborah, about our business.

28:31Yes, of course, because this hasn't been done before. But it'll be interesting to gauge your reaction to my business partner. Hi, Deborah. I'm Joel Domit. And together with Ben Shepard, we are building a new skincare brand for men called JDBS. We realize that most men either don't know where to start with skincare or can't be bothered because it all feels too complicated, expensive or, you know, a bit just not for them. So we are changing that. JDBS is skincare made simple. One step, straight talking and actually, actually works. We've already built a huge engaged audience through the show The Businessmen and we're running the UK's biggest ever men's skincare study to shape every single product.

29:18We're looking for a partner who understands how to turn that momentum into a scalable, trusted consumer brand. We're asking for£4 billion for 0.0 % equity and we're looking to scale through content partnerships and all that stuff. this is about helping men feel confident in their own skin without all of the nonsense deborah you'd be you'd be mad to turn this down has anyone ever pitched you from a sauna before deborah no i found that mildly alarming to be honest i'm with you as well i'm with you as well so uh the position of the pitcher side and the lack of clothing he does like to take his top off to be fair um off the back of running this skincare survey, we want to run the biggest male skincare survey that's ever been done to talk to men about what it is that they want from their skincare, what it is that they are looking for, what it is that they feel like they are missing.

30:17And then through activating, engaging our audience, both on the podcast and the two of us have a big following digitally as well, engaging them. We want to use those people that join our community to help guide what this brand looks like, feels like, and is both the name, the products that we bring to market, the cost that we put them at, you know, we will put all of those questions to our following and to our community. So by the time we then take it to investors, hopefully we will have de-risked it in many ways because we'll have tens of thousands of advocates for the business who will be looking forward because they're helping us develop the products, helping us build the brand that they will be looking forward, hopefully, to buying them and being able to share them with their friends and family once we come to market.

31:02So that's the sort of the conceit of the business. I wonder what you think.

31:19So I'm really glad you said deciding on a name because when you said JDBS, that's not a good name no no no that's it we appreciate your candor that's exactly what we need joel domic ben shepherd is is i know why yeah it's not a good name we've got a few others that we're trying to get rid of along the way but we keep coming back to but yes go on so my my question would be all men are not the same so for you to to avoid the pitfall of trying to be all things to all people because you are asking a lot of people for their opinion yeah um so so you're going to have to have a really rigorous approach on okay which of these fall into our core market or you form your core market because you can see this sort of common denominator but but it it's a very dangerous funny enough I was just talking to a business that's it's got this amazing product that does it does what every other product does in its in its particular sector but it literally does everything that they all do and I like yeah but what's just what's your unique selling point because actually saying you do everything is not a good selling point you've got to be able to say exactly why that person would buy it so I think from from your point of view I think it's fantastic that you're asking everybody you are going to end up with a load of engaged people which is absolutely brilliant but but but you will need to um formulate all of that information you've got to get down to a core customer.

32:49Otherwise, you're going to lose your language. You're going to lose your voice. Yes. You know, you've got a really clear voice. I've got a brilliant business call. I don't know if you know, have you heard of Fussy? Yes, I have heard of Fussy. Fussy, refillable deodorants, trying to get single-use plastic. I was listening to a podcast about it just the other day. Yeah, brilliant. And they were talking, someone's talking about the fact that they have it and they think it's amazing. It is amazing. I would say that anyway, but they've got a really, really clear voice. you know they absolutely know there are plenty of other deodorants out there you know but but fussy is absolutely caught everyone's imagination it is the cleanest one but it's also very cool you know and they know when i walk into their offices they know exactly who they are they all look like fussy you know they so i think that's that's the thing i'd probably say about about asking that the you know the joys of asking everybody and engaging everybody but the dangers of asking everybody as well sort of being able to explain you know exactly who it is that you're targeting.

33:44Yeah, I think that's a really, really important point, actually. And the other thing that Joel and I are doing, because we have very little experience, is we are sort of building a team around us of people that do have experience of bringing products to market, skincare products, bringing businesses to market as well that have been through new venture launches and things like that. So they can help guide us along the way. We are very aware that we aren't the experts in the room and actually, I'd much rather make sure I'm the least experienced person in a room so I can ask those questions i always say that if i'm sitting there if i'm if i know more than anybody else in the room i don't know why i'm wasting my time in the meeting yes i want to be surrounded by people who are so ai should be able to help you yes okay that's a good point because because you you know it will be of all of this data that used to take forever in a day to try and collate ai can crawl through it and and you know and you ask it what are the top three things that that you know, that people are saying about this product.