Facing the Truth: Ben Shephard & Joel Dommett's Business Reality Check

0:00Okay, so, oh God, this is so stressful. So it feels like we don't have a business. No. And so if we don't have a business, if we don't get people signing up to the survey, then we can't go to the investors and go like, look, well, we've created this community. And if we can't get investors, then we don't. Then all of this is pointless. We have to go back to our house with our tail between our legs.

0:22Joel Dommett:It's for nothing. Right then. Yes. Hello. I'm Simon Mayo. And right then. Hello. Yes, I'm Mark Kermit. And on this week's edition of The Take, we have the new movie The Fall of Sir Douglas Weatherford with Peter Mullen. We have the old movie Boogie Nights back in cinemas in a 4K restoration. And we have Steven Spielberg's Disclosure Day with our very special guests. Stars of the film Emily Blunt and Coleman Domingo. It's a very interesting conversation. Don't miss anything. It's all in The Take. The Businessmen, sponsored by BT Business. Here we go. Oh, reunited and it feels so good. Oh, we're reunited.

1:03It's so lovely to be back. Thank you for holding the fort, man. I really appreciate it.

1:07Joel Dommett:It was a heavy duty couple of weeks. We battled through, had some great guests, actually. I'll share some of their insights with you. But the businessmen are back together. You can subscribe on YouTube and follow wherever you get your podcasts. How was the jungle, Joel? It was unbelievable. It was unbelievable. I had such a lovely time So my whole family out there My wife is pregnant We can now say that publicly Yes You are a very fertile pet Ah yes I've done it It works Congratulations How's that all going? It feels good How far go? You were like the first person I told You did tell me Yeah And I've You know Having known it And thinking Oh please tell people So I can tell people I sort of I don't know I don't know why I told you you were the only person I told until I put it on Instagram essentially it's me then there's Instagram yes in the two steps I like you know it's it's I'm so excited for you both and for Wild as well of course because he's going to have a sibling um who's just going to be able to beat up and boss around and have a lovely time I can't wait it's amazing I really can't wait I just feel like it's uh gonna be a mad mad couple of years with a new child new business.

2:22Joel Dommett:I was going to say, because can we just, if we're plotting this into, I'm just looking into the powers that be. Have we plotted the baby into the timeline of the production line of products? Yeah. April is due date. April is due date. Okay, that's a bit before theory. So it's going to be around the sort of time where I assume we're sort of testing products and doing all of that stuff. Maybe even into the baby market as well. We could. I mean, it's been a very sort of big topic of discussion since I've been away about sort of baby, you know, sheet masks and baby skincare. Hasn't it just? Yes. Really interesting.

3:01Joel Dommett:Lots of people. I mean, I'm not sure we go down the line of skincare for small children's faces. My thing is I want to use skincare enough that I start to look like a small child. We're trying to regress. That's why I wanted that to happen. right then yes hello i'm simon mayo and right then hello yes i'm mark kermit and on this week's edition of the take we have the new movie the fall of sir douglas weatherford with peter mullen we have the old movie boogie nights back in cinemas in a 4k restoration and we have steven spielberg's disclosure day with our very special guests stars of the film emily blunt and colman domingo it's a very interesting conversation don't miss anything it's all in the take happy birthday thank you Your birthday yesterday.

3:47It was my birthday yesterday as we record this. I've got your present. Oh. I've got your little present. Thank you. This is fair. You didn't have to do that. There you go. It's not sponsored by Space NK, but... But that would be nice if they wanted to. If they want to, then jump on board. However, these guys. The BT. Yes, I've got you a modem. You've had a word with BT business.

4:06Joel Dommett:This is lovely. I'm excited. Oh, there's a card. Do you do card first? Yeah, you've got to do card first. I basically went on eBay and typed in Joel Domit gift card. And there was like five of those gift cards that it's clearly like AI had made or whatever. Yeah. Like the mask. And so I bought all of them. That's not your business though, is it? Someone's making gift cards out of me. Make a coin. And I'm the one buying them. Right, let me have a look. Let me have a look. Oh, hold on. Look at that. This looks expensive. Oh, yes! Do you use an LED mask? Come on. Annie has one. There we go. And I've given it a go.

4:50Joel Dommett:But what I've been told about them is, because we've reviewed quite a lot of them on the show, you have to be consistent with it. You've just got to do it. Got to do it every day. Have you? Do you? I've got one, and I love it. I think it's really great. It really relaxes me. And that's a really good one. Is it? It's a really good one. And you need your own one. You can't borrow your wife's one. Right? Yeah. Because that's what I did for a long time. And it annoys my wife because she's just like, oh, you get all your skin on the inside and then you clean it. And then I use it. And your skin is particularly dirty.

5:24It's particularly dirty because I work very hard. And it does three different settings. So you do a different setting if you want to get rid of blemishes. And then there's another setting if you want to. Oh, here he comes. Here he comes. Take it off. Take it off. Has it got a setting to get rid of really bad eye bags and hangovers? Yes. And you know what? If you feel like you look really bad, you just keep it on and then just go in public like that. It's all right, isn't it? No one knows you've got all of us. Just do the podcast with this on. This is, I feel like you're sort of the most friendly member of Slipknot.

6:02Joel Dommett:I'm one of the new characters in the Tron reboot. I love it. Oh, Joel. Thank you, bud. Absolute pleasure. Absolute pleasure. I'm breaking things, but. I'm going to put that to good use this Christmas. That's going to be great. And also, like, let our listeners know whether that consistency works. Yes. I really see the difference. If I do my LED mask every day, just before bed, 10 minutes, then I really see the difference. You wash your face, and then you put it on, and then you put your products on afterwards. And you just sit there and just have 10 minutes calm. With a bit of light. It's weird, though, isn't it?

6:37Because you sit in bed next to... both of me and Hannah have our LED masks on. Zero chat. Just sat next to each other. It's amazing that you managed to mate again. I know. I can't believe it. Then I put my Invisalign in. There is no, there is no, to be honest, now she's pregnant for the second time. I'm quite happy with just leaning into the fact that we're never going to do it again.

7:05Joel Dommett:You know, it's like, yeah, Yeah, just get this stuff on. Nasal strips. Nasal strips. Nasal strips. To stop the snoring. Yeah. You know, blemishes. You've got a few little bits. Silicons. Yeah. Toothpaste on your spots. Amazing. But happy birthday, man. 51. 51. I know, 50 felt exciting. 51 just feels really old. That's mental, isn't it? Don't get old, Joel. It's drabber. Well, if I can look like you when I'm 51. Well, this is why we're building this business. This is it. To try and hold on to our youthful skin as long as we possibly can. Update me on what's been going on since I've been away, Ben.

7:37Joel Dommett:Shepard. Well, so it's been great and we have been motoring ahead and had some wonderful guests on. However, we do have a problem. What? The one thing that isn't great. Me. Damn it. I knew it was me. I've been trying to find a way of broaching this with you. You replaced me with f***ing Debra Meaden. She was so good as well. Gosh, she's good. She's got form. And a lot of money. I see her face and it scares me. She's just got a way about her Trust me, I don't know if you saw her face when she saw you pitch to her topless in a song. It made me laugh so much. That scared me. She was not impressed.

8:21Joel Dommett:At some point, we do need to take something seriously. But Deborah, who was brilliant, actually was fantastic in terms of what she was able to share with her business experience and what her thoughts on us. what she thinks we need to try to do was amazing. But the survey, Joel, the survey, the survey, the survey. We have a problem with the survey because we need this survey to help us shape the business, to shape the brand, to get the feedback from the community that we're trying to build in order so we can launch with products that we know people are interested in and want and need and are excited to try.

9:00Joel Dommett:And we just, no matter how hard we try it, we're not getting the engagement on the survey that we wanted. Yeah, it's really hard, isn't it? It's like I knew it was going to be difficult to get, but it's, you know, to be sort of vulnerable about, I suppose, is that it's just not sort of catching on as much as we thought it was going to. That's been quite a surprise. I think what I've come to understand is the way men approach these things through surveys and engagement bits and pieces is very different to how women do it. And a lot of the women that I'm working with have done the survey to think it's really interesting, a really fascinating bit of what we're doing, but they work in that world.

9:40Joel Dommett:And of course, this is really, and that's great. We want women to take the survey for the men in their lives, the boys in their lives, whatever. But we really want men to engage with it as well, because it's their feedback. That's why we're doing this whole thing. Russ, who is our business developer, one of the execs on the podcast, who we've worked with and he popped up a couple of weeks ago, has left us a voice note. Oh, God. Yes. uh you've been away for a while had a lovely time yeah he's he's not going to mince his words this is what russ has to say guys i've just looked at the survey completion data and we're not in we're not in good shape at all um i think we'll be lucky if we hit a thousand completions by the end of this week um it's been i think three weeks four weeks um of trying to get these surveys completed and you guys are not getting anywhere.

10:32As a company, we need to get that engagement way up. We need to get those surveys completed. Otherwise, we can't get in front of any investors in January as planned, which means we can't start product developing. And simply put, it's not good enough. You know, I don't know what to say. Get creative, start thinking about how we get the engagement up, how we start building that community, how we get people to actually care about what you're talking about. Because at this point, we don't have a business. Okay, so, oh God, this is so stressful. So it feels like we don't have a business. No. And so if we don't have a business, if we don't get people signing up to the survey, then we can't go to the investors and go like, look, well, we've created this community.

11:18And if we can't get investors, then we don't. Then all of this is pointless. We have to go back to our house or our tail between our legs.

11:25Joel Dommett:It's for nothing. And I think there is an assumption that we're doing this, so it's just going to happen, right? Yeah. You know, the people I've spoken to, this is really exciting. When's it happening? When's it going to? It really might not. I mean, and this is the first time I think I've felt that actually that is a serious reality to this. We can't just coast along this. We've got to make this work because we have to stand in front of those investors having de-risked the idea, having created this community that are keen for the products that want to be involved in the journey with us. It's a lot of pressure.

12:01Joel Dommett:Pull your finger out, Domit. Fabio Sementilli. Big heart, big voice, big laugh. A rock star hairstylist who drove a Porsche. He was like a wizard behind the chair. The killers came for Fabio in his own backyard. You can't rationalize it. You can't figure it out. There was rampant speculation about everything. But every wild theory was wrong. Because the truth was even more unbelievable. What? Is anyone hearing what I'm hearing? And even more heartbreaking. The uncertainty of not knowing is a form of agony. From Sony Music Entertainment and Novel, this is Cut, Color, Kill. I'm Jonathan Hirsch. Cut, Color, Kill is available now on The Binge.

12:50search for it wherever you get your podcast to start listening today subscribers to the binge can listen to all episodes all at once ad free

13:03the other thing though that i thought debra shared a really bit of smart insight because

13:08Joel Dommett:we are and i know russ is very much like if we haven't got this server we haven't got a business and we all understand and then our dream is to get 10 000 surveys completed because that would be the biggest ever men's skincare survey that's been done yeah deborah was really really intrigued by this as an idea and she also felt like you've got to be careful because you can't be everything to everyone yeah so i just want to pay a little clip of one of the bits of advice that deborah gave because i think it's really really pertinent to what we're trying to do my question would be all men are not the same so for you to to avoid the pitfall of trying to be all things to all people because you are asking a lot of people for their opinion.

13:49So you're going to have to have a really rigorous approach on, okay, which of these fall into our core market or you form your core market because you can see this sort of common denominator. So I think from your point of view, I think it's fantastic that you're asking everybody. You are going to end up with a load would have engaged people, which is absolutely brilliant. But you will need to formulate all of that information you've got to get down to a core customer. Otherwise, you're going to lose your language. You're going to lose your voice.

14:25Joel Dommett:And it's dawned on me. Literally just lost your voice. Perfect. Perfect timing. How did Debra do that? She's amazing. That's why she's a dragon. Oh, God. and I think that's really really key to the success of this that we're able to collate all that information but make sure we don't lose our voice we don't lose our core customer yeah and we don't get carried away in needing to find out so much from everybody that we that we we with all the the volume of information that we get we sort of lose our way which we don't want yeah it's it's been so fascinating talking to people you know since i went away just talking to people about what it is they want from skincare and and everyone wants wants something i feel this is the key that we will go into this whole madness in the first place is that it feels like everyone i speak to um is is missing something from their lives in terms of skincare and they don't know they're they're scared they don't know what to they don't know what to do they just need some information they need if someone who they trust gives them a product and a list of what to do they'll go like great this is all i need this is all i've ever wanted so people really just want some guidance yes i think guidance is key and we you know the reality for me and you though as well is that we've decided that we're going to launch this thing.

15:53Joel Dommett:We're really excited about it. We're hoping to lean a little bit on our profiles to sort of gather a bit of interest in it anyway. And we've been able to do some really good PR and some good interviews and things, which is great. And it's brilliant on the surface, but that's not filtering down to the people that we really need to get involved, which is the guys out there that are listening to the podcast to actually do this survey. And it feels like that's a proper uphill task. I feel I'm, I'm, I'm worried about that job. Cause I think that, yeah, me too. You know, we can be, we have both of us are very enthusiastic and jumping into life with both feet, but tapping into that part of it is something that we haven't cracked yet.

16:32Joel Dommett:And that's, that's. Well, and it feels scary because, um, you know, see it was like now there feels like there's a lot of, uh, there's a lot of people of eyes on us in order to make this work, you know, not just in terms of listeners and our followers and da da da, but it's also now we're putting this team together of people who now also are going, you need to do this, this, this, this, this. Asking questions of us that we can't answer. And the internet and the world is changing constantly. So it felt easier like three or four years ago. Three years ago it felt easier. You had your followers and your follow account dictated what response you were going to get.

17:15So if I was, you know, it's just much more consistent. So if I had nearly a million followers, I would post something and it almost always would get a certain response. Whereas now it's getting so, it's getting so much more difficult because I'll put a post up now and one thing will get 50 ,000 likes. And then the next one will get 43 likes. So it's not getting seen at all. and i'm like well that doesn't make sense i've got like a almost a million followers so like they're not so they're there those followers aren't seeing it at all no so it's like understanding that behemoth of of instagram and tiktok and all this new stuff and how they keep changing the algorithm all that stuff it's so so it was so much more predictable and now it's not predictable and it feels like everyone is making content now because it's so much more viewable you know someone with 43 likes 43 followers can now somehow get seen by 40 million people so it's all just changing for the good i expect in the long run but um just figuring out it's really difficult

18:27Joel Dommett:understanding how hard it is as well so this is our first foray to something like this but understanding how hard it must be for small businesses that are based around social media and that have been really successful and suddenly the algorithm changes and they can't get the traction that they were once getting you know you i've got much better appreciation and understanding how tough that is i mean if you if there's any small business owners out there that have been through this we'd love to get your advice and and you know get in touch with us send us voice notes go to the patreon and share your story because if we can offer our platform for for you to share what you've been through and what worked for you and how you navigate that.

19:07Yeah.

19:07Joel Dommett:That would be priceless sort of advice, I think. And also like in another good way, it's like it levels the playing field. So no longer someone who does have a million followers doesn't hold all the cards anymore. So someone who does have a small business and they've just started up their cafe, if they can find a way to make something entertaining enough to get a bit seen by a million people, they can get more people to come into their cafe. was that wasn't an option before unless you gathered those followers. So it's an interesting, it's interesting. And we've just got to somehow make that content interesting enough in order to grab people to get them to fill out our survey.

19:46To engage with it.

19:48Joel Dommett:We do have some good news though. Oh Christ, thank God. You know, we're partnering with Men's Health. Yes. Really thrilled that we're working with Men's Health. They're really fascinated by the idea of what we're doing. and they love the idea of the men's skincare survey. So we're not, it's not all doom and gloom. And I know that they're going to put that and send that out to their sort of very engaged readership. Great. And the people that follow them on their social media. So hopefully that might build a little bit of traction. And it's, you know, nothing comes easy. And I think that's what's interesting.

20:25And, you know, we've not got into this because we didn't expect it to be an easy process. And it's, you know, fingers crossed we'll look back on this process and be like, oh, do you remember when we sat there and no one was filling out our survey? And we were panicking. And, you know, what happens if we don't do it? Have you thought about that? So if we say we put this thing, we put the content up, and then we still are sitting at a thousand people who are ever filled out our survey

21:00Joel Dommett:what happens then i think then i haven't considered that you know brus saying we don't have those people signing up filling a survey you haven't got a business what happened what what do we what do we maybe at that point maybe we realize that we don't there isn't an opportunity what we're trying to do is build up a business and products that we have feedback and have taken customer information over. So we know there's a need for it. We know there's a gap. We're going to fill that gap. So when we go to the investors, we can go, look, we've de-risked this. We've got all these people that want these products.

21:33Joel Dommett:They've told us what they're after. They've told us what they need. They told us what they want to pay, what it looks like. And the investors go, great, we will help you launch that business. If we don't have that information, we can't stand in front of investors and be really honest about that and say, come on, give us your money so we can launch this business because we have got no guarantee that there's a market for it. That's why we need it. The good news is, and you weren't in the meeting, so I thought I'd share this little bit of insight from the meeting with Men's Health, just because I think these are sort of stats that you need to understand just how popular your business partner is and his front cover, Joel Dummett.

22:10Joel Dommett:Have a listen to what uh pete who's one of our team who was in the meeting had to say they couldn't be more positive about you ben so thank you they love you and they told us again that you outsold david beckham so that was another big milestone come on come on you're welcome you all sound so surprised i don't get it for me for me it was always a shoo-in ben always a shoo-in and stormzy by the right she said and stormy and stormy there you go yeah yeah absolutely i see i see a collab coming i think it's definitely a collab coming they need him yeah they need him yeah wow more popular than david beckham and stormzy yes i sometimes think of you as the stormzy of morning television yeah there's a little bit of that then so look i mean i very flattering that it is that's amazing congratulations man thank you isn't that unbelievable yeah yeah yeah wow I think it was when my mate I don't know if I told you this story when my my friend phoned me and he said I'm just in Tesco's and there's a pensioner buying some vegetables and she's got a copy of your men's health going I love this and and as she as she bleeps it through the the person at the checkout went oh you you follow men's health and she went it's for my grandson Did she wink after she said that?

23:35Joel Dommett:She certainly left with a spring in her step. She died the next day. Happy. Happy. You know, that's what she was. She got her men's health. So look, the men's health partnership is really fantastic. That feels like it really fits. It's a great, yeah, it does. There's a lovely synergy between what we're trying to do and what we need. We need to get people to fill out this survey. This is the big... The crux. This is the crux. It's a definitive moment. Our production team have floated an interesting idea in the sea of business. Right. Of which we are currently paddling. Currently paddling with our own little hands.

24:18We are doggy paddling across the ocean.