It’s All In The Name: Baby Naming Expert SJ Strum helps Joel and Ben name their Skincare Brand

0:00Ben? Yeah. I've had a really good week. Really? Really good week. I know you are the serious one on this team and I know that everyone thinks that maybe you do all the work and I'm always just like, I'm serious. You know what? I've done something big for this podcast. What have you done? Huge. Are you sure you should have? Absolutely massive. I'm worried now. What have you done? I've got us a sponsor, Ben. Hold on. I've got us a sponsor, Ben. You've got us a sponsor? Yeah, I've genuinely got us a sponsor. Where did you get us a sponsor? Well, see if you can guess what it is. It's BT Business. There's your mug.

0:35There's my mug. Give it a slurp. Joel, when you say you got us a sponsor, was it you? Here's a modem. Where did you? Where's that come from? I brought it here. BT Business gave you a modem? They gave me a modem and I chose to put it in my jacket. I've got a box. Is that where you usually get? What's the box? I've got balloons.

0:55Joel Dommett:I blew up the balloons. Joel, we've got BT Business sponsors. Are they providing things for Wild's birthday parties? Is this potentially a double sponsor? A party planner. It's for my son's second birthday and for our podcast, Tote Bags. Is that for our guests? We can put goodies in the BT Business goodies? Yes, yes, yes, yes. You're thinking exactly on my way. By the way, where did you... Seems very apt. There's a lot of mugs. That's all I ask for, Tote Bags and mugs. And balloons. Where did you find this sponsor? You know, I just sort of... It wasn't you, was it, Joel? I asked... No. I asked...

1:36The team gave it to me. So you didn't do any work this week, did you, Joel? No, but I didn't. They told me first because I arrived here first. And then I said, please don't tell Ben. Let it be my thing.

1:49Joel Dommett:Well, look. Firstly, excited that we have a sponsor. Yeah. Secondly, we both hold the balloons because that's cool. You don't need to lie, Joel. Just be yourself. It is true. We should be more honest with each other. Let's be more honest together with ourself. And you know what? I think that's a really good point. I'm going to write it down and I'm going to put it on a piece of paper and then put that piece of paper in my new tote bag. Do we, so now we're sponsored by them. Do we have to hold them through the whole episode? Yeah. I thought it's the perfect sponsor because it's almost your initials.

2:24one of them is definitely my initial it's really close yes you because this podcast is basically bs business yeah but it's not i've got my sponsor is bt and t is next to s in the alphabet oh i didn't even think about that angle well hello bonjour je m 'appelle simon mayo and je m 'appelle

2:45Joel Dommett:Mark Kermode. Coming up on this week's take. Reviews of Nirvana, the band, the show, the movie, Minions and Monsters, a catch-up review of Supergirl from last week, because they screened it too late, and the invite with our special guest, two of its stars, Ed Norton and Olivia Wilde, who also direct the movie. Do not miss this week's take.

3:09We're back! We're back! The businessmen are back. Yes, we are Ben Sheppard and Joel Domit. Doing it for you. I need to work on our catchphrase. What are we doing it for? We're doing it for our future, for the nation, for everyone's face. We're doing it for your face. Doing it for your face.

3:32Joel Dommett:Right. Let's just dwell for a moment, Joel Domit, about what we learned from Nish Kumar. I mean, all of my life of a professional comedian, I've learned from Nish Kumar. Yes. That is his position in my life, is I learn a lot from him. We learn a lot from him, particularly how little faith he has in us creating something that will be tangible, valuable or useful. Yeah. I don't think he has a lot of faith in me as a human being. I think he has a lot of faith in you, which is, again, I think it's becoming apparent that you are very important to this whole process. Because without you, this is an absolute binfire.

4:18Joel Dommett:Well, you've got to bear in mind that was it not for you, I wouldn't be here. You know, I am clinging on to my younger self through you vicariously. So you are the image of which I'm trying to project for the nation down the line. So if there is a steadying hand, which is my old age, then that's good. But it's your enthusiasm and energy, Doldomit, that is going to get this going for the faces of the nation. Also, I just want to say that you said Doldomit just then. Like we're friends, but not friends enough that you could get my name right. And that is absolutely fine. I've always found the first initial of anybody's name overrated.

4:56Yeah, I completely agree. Completely agree. And Shepard, I'm very excited about today.

5:03Joel Dommett:We've got some great things lined up. Am I right? We have got some really interesting things lined up. But before we get stuck into it, I thought it'd be quite interesting because in the world that we work in and you work as well on this morning, I have the privilege of working alongside some amazing experts, particularly in the world of skincare, because we do a lot of skincare product testing and launches. and we talk a lot about the world of skincare out there and celebrity skincare lines, all sorts of things. And the amazing Nadine Baggett is a good friend of mine. Now, Nadine is a freelance beauty journalist of sort of 30-odd years.

5:38Joel Dommett:She's got her own YouTube channel. She has been writing about beauty products and beauty for decades. Wow. She is one of the most experienced and respected journalists in this world. And I get to work alongside her an awful lot. And so when we started talking about doing this, I thought, do you know whose brain I really need to pick for us? It's the Bagot. We need to pick the Bagot. We need to pick the Bagot. She also has the best name in beauty as well. That's such a great name. Bagot Beauty. Bagot Beauty. Yes. But Nadine, I sort of ran past the idea of us launching this skincare brand for men, what it could look like, what it might be.

6:19Joel Dommett:And she has responded. Would you like to know what she thought? Yeah. Absolutely. Strap in because she has a vast amount of experience and doesn't hold back. I love this. If the voice note is just three seconds long and her going, who's Joel Dommit? Then it would be fantastic. Who's Dole Dommit? Who's Dole Dommit? Okay, this is what Nadine had to say. Ben, now I know that I adore you and I have to ask you, what do you really know about beauty? I often joke that you make the nation's women swoon. And you do. But will their partners buy your moisturiser? Beauty is seriously cutthroat. I mean, in the last year alone, Wren and Drew Barrymore's Flower Beauty have all gone under.

7:07So even celebrities get it wrong. I don't want to be all doom and gloom. I love beauty. And if you get it right, it's really big business. 100 billion quid a year globally and growing at around 10 % a year. But before you take a step further, you need a clear brand strategy. I know that's boring, but you need to ask who's your customer? What will they pay for your products? What are you offering that no other brand is offering right now? And that's everyone. You've got to include Nivea for Men, L 'Oreal, Chanel, Augustinus Bader. You're playing with the big boys when you enter beauty and big boys with even bigger budgets.

7:41I always say to any brand, and I would say this to anybody, before you launch a product, it can't be a vanity project. It needs to be better, cheaper, utterly unique. It needs to be something seriously special. now all that said i actually think your recent front covers could make for a really brilliant brand launch pad but you'll need to go beyond a bog standard moisturizer to be taken seriously and the next step is to find a a brilliant beauty brand advisor now i am available obviously to you haha but then you'll need to find a manufacturer have you thought about are you going to manufacture in the uk or abroad you'll need to find a formulator a toxicologist a safety and a stability assessor, packaging designer, all that before you even think about where you're going to sell it online, direct to consumer, in store.

8:25Now, the more I think about it, I actually think you and Joel could pull this off, but you're going to need the best beauty people on board. Now, obviously, I have a Rolodex of the best beauty people, so just shout if I can help in any single way. But I have an idea that for you, it could be sporting stroke, male themed to go authentically with what you're actually interested in. We know you love Tough Mudder. We know you love sports. We know you watch and engage in sports. You've got two young boys. So you could be transgenerational, which I think is really interesting. But I think it's got to be sort of high performance skincare care without breaking a budget that's the way i think you could go ben and really make a success of it but just shout if you need any advice at all i'm here and i'm yours obviously always very interesting wow that was fascinating she's amazing firstly thank you nadine for taking the

9:22Joel Dommett:time uh so the things that struck me about what she was talking about was manufacturers formulators safety officers the reality is that in theory we're going to create products that people are going to put onto their skin and their faces we don't want to hurt anybody yeah so it has to be safe yeah you think it has to be safe and it has to work i think those two things are really difficult it's a really good start to get right safe and working safe and working um it's like but also what's really hard about it it's gonna get such a weird one because um like i'm using this thing at the moment i really like it's from medicate and it's it just i really feel like it makes a difference to my face when I use it.

10:04Joel Dommett:And it's working. And it's so rare, isn't it, that you find something that, because we're told to use things on our faces and you go, okay, this person's told me to use it, I'm going to use it. But so rare that you feel like, well, you know what, that feel like that really makes a difference. And that's one of the things we want. Yes. We want that. We want people to put us on their faces and go, yes, Joel and Ben. And hopefully not have to wait like six months for it to do it. Oh, yeah, yeah. Which is a hard ask. The immediacy of response is what we like. It's a hard ask. That's because you're a comedian.

10:38Joel Dommett:You tell a joke, you want to laugh. This is so true, Ben. You don't have the patience. I have zero patience. There's these pills that I was taking that I was going to like. What? It's a little blue one. It's about a diamond. I don't know whether you've... How long were you waiting for that to work? Yeah. It's too long. No, Ben, it's just starting to work now. Whoa.

11:04I've got a funny story about taking that before, but I'll tell you that another day. Let's do that for the Patreon account. I don't think it's what BT wants.

11:12Joel Dommett:Right, so what she said was brand strategy. I know we've got to come on to brand strategy. We talked about mission statements last week. Yeah. Branding. And one of the most important things, Joel Domit, is what on earth do we call our brand? The name. Yeah Oh god it feels scary doesn't it Sort of embarking on a name Ah names Get a kid's name wrong It's insane Yeah You get like I'm sure you do the same We do a lot of these sort of corporate events Where I get to have to read a lot of names I did one the other day And I had to read so many names on the teleprompter And I quite like it Because it feels like a challenge So I try my best not I don't look at the script before Oh really?

11:56Joel Dommett:Really? Yeah because I think it's really fun No, I always have to practice them. It's so exciting. Because you never know who you're going to offend. So when I get a really hard name coming up on the audio, and I'm like, come give it to me, you f***er. Come on. Come on, oh, it's a really good one. It's a really good one. And what happens when you run into it and you crash and you fail? I approach it with absolute confidence. And just own it. Just own it. And I also love trying to read the name before I've started that sentence. and I'm like oh it honestly feels like the only time that I feel alive what are these awards ceremonies that are making you feel so dead until you're scaring yourself with people's names so the one I did the other day was for it was in Wales and it was for basically customer service operators in Wales so a lot of Welsh names Welsh names man you should have seen me when I went to I tried to say Cymru which is which is the Welsh name for Wales Welsh name for Wales that's quite an important one that's pretty Cymru Wales which we all laughed at the way I'd said it and everyone laughed at it and then they went no it's Cymru and I was like Cymru that's the way you said it and then we had a laugh about that that was fun and then obviously it's funny because it says Cymru Wales and then I was like well what does it mean they're like it means Wales I was like so I'm saying Wales Wales and then everyone laughed at that we had a whole bit of fun about that but oh my god I love I love reading a complicated name.

13:25People can be sensitive about getting the name wrong, though. I can tell you about one of the most interesting. You'll laugh at this, I think. I think, have I told you? Maybe I'll tell you this. I went to do a, did I say this last week? I can't remember. I went to do a corporate once, run an award ceremony. And I said to the autocue person, I said, we did a couple of run-throughs of a few awards. and then I said, if there's any complicated names or anything, just phoneticize it in the autocue. It'd be absolutely fine.

13:57Joel Dommett:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cool. No worries. And this was the one time there was a real problem with my process. I then went on stage. It was like 1 ,200 people or something. Decent size, yeah. I went up stage. It's only when I was on stage that I realized he'd phoneticized everything. LAUGHTER Like literally everything. I'm not telling. Absolutely everything. He made everything harder to say. The one I really remember. And I wasn't coming off stage at any point. So I was now on stage for two hours. I couldn't go off and be like, can you un-fonaticize everything? Because this is the worst. I'm in front of 1 ,200 people.

14:42I can't read any of it. It's so hard. He phoneticized HSBC. So it wasn't just HSBC. Look, I'm genuinely not joking. A-I-T-C-A. A-I-T-C-A dash E-S-S dash B-E-E. It's already the letter B. Dash C-E-E. Imagine reading that. Hold on.

15:04Joel Dommett:He was only doing his job, though. He was doing his job. He was only doing his job. It was... I couldn't be mad at him. User error. No, totally. Because I should have read it before. I should have read it before. Friar preparation prevents piss poor performance, as they say. I probably would have, if that was written down, I would have messed up on the organ. I need it for this size. Oh my God. Unbelievable. So the naming thing is a really personal thing, of course. It's so personal. And we, and of course, and we've talked about this. Do we, do we use our boys' names? You've got Wild and I've got Sam and Jack.

15:36Joel Dommett:Is there something in that? Something that really means something to us. That's nice. Is it, is it, is it our names? Is it, is it, is it words or something that inspires us? And again, just because I like to exploit all of my contacts in the world of television, we have this amazing, amazing woman who comes on the show called SJ Strum. Hold your horses, Joel Dummer. She is a baby naming expert. Her profession is naming babies. She names babies as a job. Yes. So if you're struggling to find a name for your child, and everybody goes through this when you have a baby, right? You kind of go through loads of names and you can disagree on names.

16:13Joel Dommett:You want to find an interesting name that matches with your previous kids or some of your older kids or your family heritage or background. Now, SJ has, her job is to come up with interesting names for you, names that connect with stuff that you love, names that connect with your heritage, your culture. She has this sort of the etymology of words that she puts together. She finds names that work with the siblings of those children, names that work with the parents or the family's name. Sometimes people want the names named after their grandparents, but you can't keep the grandparents, so it's got to be a derivative of that name as well.

16:46Joel Dommett:She is unbelievable. And also what I suppose is really interesting with that is that you are, because what happens with baby names is people think like, oh my God, no one's got this name. I'm being really individual. But what you don't realize is that millions of people are thinking they're being individual and everyone picks the same name. Well, look, why don't we get SJ in? Let's get SJ in. And we can get some experience from the professional baby. Because, of course, this business is our baby, right? Yeah. There is absolutely a connection. And it feels like a lot of pressure because, in a weird way, you can change the name of your child.

17:28Yes. Like, you can, if you decide at age four, I think they're a dean. Yes. You can change it. You can't change a brand, though. No. Once you're in, you spend the packaging. It's too much money. So this is more of a commitment than a child. Essentially, that's what we're saying. Oh, God. He finally got her. Oh my God, he got her. For years, a deranged man in Wichita known as the poet stalked Ruth Finley. He sent her letters, gifts, and poems. The Wichita police put everything they had into Ruth's case, but got nowhere. The poet was always two steps in front of us, and we just didn't know why. And the city was already living in fear under the watch of another monster who called himself BTK.

18:14and he also had a thing for poetry. Could we really have two different people? But no one could have guessed how this would end. That's one of those Hitchcock endings that we did not expect. From Sony Music Entertainment and Numetric Media, this is The Poet. I'm Rachel Brown. The Poet is available now on The Binge. Search for it wherever you get your podcasts to start listening today. Subscribers to The Binge can listen to all episodes all at once, ad-free. SJ, thank you so much for being here. Thanks for having me. I'm so excited to meet you because Ben's met you before, but I've never met you.

18:51And I am well into what you do for a living. Are you? I can tell you've got a cool name. Wild is good. Wild is all right. It is really cool. And we were just talking about it before you came in. It was based on the hotel that we got married in. Oh, really? It was off that. And then we found out it's a Dutch name. So then we sort of added the E at the end and did it that way. And that's the way we came to it. Well, you've not always been a professional baby namer. Not always.

19:18Joel Dommett:What were you doing before? So before I was, it was a YouTube channel that I started about parenting and made a video called Baby Name Wars, which was all about this sort of difficulty in choosing baby names. And it just exploded on YouTube. But at the time I was working at an ad agency. So I was working with branding, coming up with names of brands, working on portfolios of products. So like, is your name premium? is your name you know some brands own three or four but we'll have the cheaper brand the mid-range the premium and we were naming all of them creating the campaigns so I was really in this sort of creative solution to these business problems and then suddenly I got all these comments going we can't agree on a name either we're totally stuck and I thought you know what like you guys have done there's a gap in the market for somebody to come up with names and I was pregnant with my third baby so name obsessed my husband was just vetoing everything I came up with he just likes traditional names and I was like throwing out Atticus, Juniper.

20:14He was just like I don't even know what you're saying so I started making those lists on YouTube, did it every Monday and it just like a little train itself it just blew up and it became really well known and a podcast Baby Named Envy, the book Baby Named Envy and it just helps people like you said it's just like people get obsessed with it for that nine months and it helps them. A lot of people say to me you help me go with my braver choice because I was just sort of not sure do people like this name then I'll say how much I love it or the reasons to love it, which I think is missing from a lot of conversations.

20:45So, yeah, I've named quite a few thousand babies, which is quite bizarre. Quite weird. Do you think it's easier to name a brand or a baby?

20:57Probably a baby. I would find it easier. There's more choice. Yes. A brand name, a lot of the good ones are taken as well. You've got to look at where you're going as well and think about what it's going to mean. Is it ownable? Has somebody already trademarked it? What does it say? Is it going to last a long time? So there's lots to think about when you're naming a brand. And I think getting into that sort of audience that's so broad, you know, has to be popular. It can't be divisive necessarily. I mean, I have got a few ideas for you of some names that I'm going to consult and then also see if you guys end up like some of my couples on different...

21:32Fighting over them. Having a disagreement. Yeah, I'll be like, I prefer Atticus.

21:37Joel Dommett:it's interesting because there are some names that start of businesses and then it becomes a that becomes a bit of a nightmare because the business has shifted or pivoted down the line and the original name isn't what they're doing so you have to be mindful of that i guess right yeah but you've got to be t-shaped we used to call it in the branding biz t-shaped t-shaped so it has to be able to work across lots of different ranges that you might want to bring at. So, and you've also, it's got to be slightly disruptive. You don't want to be super dull, you know, like just another, another skincare brand.

22:09Like this is you guys, you want it to be like on the shelf, big and bold. So you've got to think about, you know, I was thinking about some disruptors into industry. So I think the biggest one that always stands out to me as a brand name was Richard Branson Virgin.