In short
Podcast Episode Notes: The Business Men - Joel And Ben Get Serious As They Figure Out What Their Brand Logo LOOKS Like!
Episode Overview In this episode of *The Business Men*, hosts Ben Shephard and Joel Dommett team up with brand designer Ella to create their skincare brand's logo. Each host presents their vision for the brand, and Ella transforms those ideas into tangible designs. The episode highlights the intersection of creativity and entrepreneurship as they navigate this exciting phase of their business journey.
Key Themes
- Brand Identity Development
- The importance of visual branding in establishing a skincare line.
- Balancing fun and professionalism in the brand's image.
- Creative Process
- Discussion on creative briefs and how they guide branding efforts.
- Ella's role in translating ideas into design.
- The significance of typography, color palettes, and shapes in branding.
- Collaboration and Competition
- The dynamic between Ben and Joel as they present conflicting ideas.
- The playful competition between the two, fostering creativity.
Episode Highlights
- Introduction
- Ben and Joel express excitement about working on their skincare brand.
- Ella is introduced as the designer who will aid in visualizing their ideas.
- Creative Briefs
- Each host shares their creative brief with Ella, focusing on brand values:
- Ben's Values: Reliable, elegant, clean, sophisticated, high performance, accessible.
- Joel's Values: Fun, cheeky, crafted, challenger.
- Ella examines how to balance these distinct visions into cohesive designs.
- Logo Presentation
- Ella presents four unique logo concepts split between Ben’s and Joel’s visions.
- Ben’s Logos:
- Clean and elegant aesthetics.
- Sans serif fonts and a sophisticated color palette.
- Joel’s Logos:
- Fun and cheeky designs.
- Use of playful, crafted typography and vibrant colors.
- Discussion of Designs
- Both hosts react to each logo design, sharing their preferences and interpretations.
- The conversation includes insights into how the logo would resonate with potential customers.
- Branding Insights
- Ella explains design decisions, such as the use of sans serif fonts for a premium feel and color choices that reflect the brand's personality.
- Importance of flexibility in design for future product expansions.
- Collaboration Reflection
- The hosts reflect on their collaborative process and how their differing styles contribute to a richer design outcome.
- Ella praises the creative energy fostered by the pair's competitive spirit.
Key Takeaways
- Importance of Brand Vision: A strong brand identity combines personal values, creativity, and market understanding.
- Effective Communication: Clear briefings and ongoing dialogue among team members lead to successful branding outcomes.
- Iterative Design Process: The journey of creating a logo is iterative and benefits from feedback and collaboration.
Next Steps
- The hosts plan to refine their chosen designs based on audience feedback, continuing to engage their listeners in the branding process.
- They encourage listeners to provide input through a skincare survey and to join their Patreon for deeper insights into their business development.
Conclusion This episode captures the blend of humor and hard work that characterizes Ben and Joel's journey into entrepreneurship. Their interactions with Ella reveal the complexities of branding, emphasizing that a successful product is as much about visual identity as it is about the product itself.
For more behind-the-scenes content and to influence their business decisions, listeners are encouraged to visit their Patreon page.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOCreative Advert Idea
0:00 to 0:24
Exploring a humorous concept for a skincare advertisement.
“The only thing I really like about the idea is I like the idea of taking that character and making an advert where he's just like, Hey, hey, guys, you look like you got wrinkles.”
Setting the Episode Context
0:45 to 2:03
Hosts discuss the importance of the episode's visual elements and their journey.
“Yeah, it feels like the year has finally started.”
Recap of the Skincare Journey
2:03 to 3:16
Reflecting on the progress of their skincare brand and key challenges faced.
“We'll have new episodes every Tuesday, so make sure to subscribe to Nearlyweds on YouTube.”
Nipple Piercing Revelation
3:16 to 3:41
A humorous discussion about a nipple piercing incident involving Joel.
“So the person who has got the least surveys completed and the person who will be receiving the nipple pierce is...”
Concerns About the Nipple Piercing
3:41 to 6:04
Joel shares reactions from friends and family regarding his nipple piercing.
“in the studio on Monday because Lorraine Kelly and Dr.”
Survey Insights for Skincare Brand
6:04 to 7:20
Discussion about the skincare survey results and brand naming process.
“I think we should get down to business, Joel Domit.”
Introducing the Designer
7:20 to 8:30
Introduction of their designer and discussion on the logo design process.
“And as we have proven endlessly, relentlessly, some would say tiresomely, we are very competitive.”
Briefing the Designer
8:30 to 11:22
Hosts share their thoughts during the logo briefing and compare approaches.
“So it's lovely to have you in the studio.”
Analyzing Brand Values
11:22 to 14:00
Hosts analyze their brand values and how they differ in their approach to the skincare brand.
“How complicated did we make it for Ella?”
Exploring Brand Attributes
14:00 to 16:40
Learn about the different brand attributes that define Joel and Ben's skincare line.
“more into your clean side but I'll show you later.”
Show all 19 chapters
Typography Choices and Impact
16:40 to 19:10
Discover how typography influences brand perception and product presentation.
“Or if what I have done, which is I went off-piste.”
Color Psychology in Branding
19:10 to 22:10
Understand the importance of color choices in creating a brand identity.
“I thought it was just like an air conditioning unit that we're covered up with a coat.”
Presenting the Logo Concepts
22:10 to 26:10
Experience the reveal and discussion of logo concepts for the skincare line.
“So the gaps between the letters in the letters, which makes it feel more premium.”
Feedback on Logo Designs
26:10 to 28:00
Hear the hosts' reactions and thoughts on the presented logo designs.
“It's black, but it's shadowed with a sort of grey.”
Exploring Logo Design Elements
28:00 to 28:59
Discover how different design elements contribute to logo aesthetics.
“which also gives a sense of craft, which is also why I've added this shadow onto there.”
Under the Sea: A Wild Card Logo
29:00 to 30:28
Dive into an unconventional logo concept with underwater motifs.
“this is a bit of a wild card prepare yourselves ready?”
Nostalgia and Edgy Branding
30:29 to 31:26
Discuss the balance between nostalgia and modern branding aesthetics.
“Oh, I've got a lot of homework to do, I think.”
Choosing the Right Logo
31:27 to 33:42
Learn about the decision-making process behind selecting a logo.
“And then he jumps out and jumps back into the pot.”
The Importance of Collaboration
33:43 to 34:21
Understand how teamwork enhances the creative logo design process.
“Like this is like, yes, I know what I'm doing there.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Ben:The only thing I really like about the idea is I like the idea of taking that character and making an advert where he's just like, Hey, hey, guys, you look like you got wrinkles. I need to sort that out. Here's some aloe vera, bitch. And then he's like, that's like, yeah, and then he jumps out and jumps back into the pot.
0:24Ben:The Businessmen, sponsored by BT Business. Welcome to The Businessman, everybody. I hope you're well and all is good. It's sunshine in now. About blooming time, Joel Domet. I'll tell you what, it's so nice not to be just running in the rain. Yes. I just, ah, it's been so depressing. But it's feeling sunny now and I feel like a different shift in my mindset. I feel positive. It's exciting.
0:48Ella:Yeah, it feels like the year has finally started. There's opportunity out there if we go and grasp it, particularly with people's skincare. This is The Businessman Podcast. this dashing young gent is the domit of Joel. And this is the handsome Ben Shepard, fresh from a helicopter. Can we just say as well, this particular episode, if you're listening to this episode, it is a very visual one because our designer's coming in. So it's definitely one that's worth watching as well on YouTube so you can get a real sense of some of the things that are coming up because there is a lot of pictures to be considered in this episode, Joel.
1:23Ben:Yes, our incredible designer, Ella, who I've got a fond name for helicopter. Can we just add in like a wind? Oh, and that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, do that. Add that in place. Thank you.
1:41Ella:Is that Ella Copter arriving?
1:49Joel:We're Molly and Tom and we're getting married.
1:52Ella:After Finding Love on Love Island, we are now navigating real life and wedding planning.
1:58Joel:On Nearlyweds, we share the honest highs, lows and the chaos of getting hitched.
2:02Ella:From budgets to guest lists to family dramas and the things no one prepares you for.
2:08Joel:We'll have new episodes every Tuesday, so make sure to subscribe to Nearlyweds on YouTube.
2:13Ben:And listen wherever you get your podcasts.
2:22Ben:This podcast, if you don't know, it follows our endeavours as we journey to attempt to start a skincare brand.
2:32Ella:It's quite a meandering journey so far, isn't it? We've had conversations that have tested us, hard-hitting truths, and Joel Dummett, him off the mask singer, got his nipple paced.
2:41Ben:Yes, I did. Yes, I did. And I immediately took it out, took it out.
2:47Joel:I think from your point of view, I think it's fantastic that you're asking everybody. You are going to end up with a load of engaged people, but you will need to formulate all of that information you've got to get down to a core customer. Otherwise, you're going to lose your voice.
3:02Ella:All the polls are now closed. We have taken the votes. They have been counted and verified. And we can now reveal the name for our skincare brand is...
3:15Ben:Joel and Ben. for skin. So the person who has got the least surveys completed and the person who will be receiving the nipple pierce is... Joel.
3:38Ella:So that's some highlights and maybe lowlights of the series so far. Joel, can we ask about the nipple? I got some grief off Nigel Havers. in the studio on Monday because Lorraine Kelly and Dr. Hilary Jones were discussing your nipple piercing live on national television and Nigel Havers was in there. The charmer himself was furious at me for letting you get your nipple pierced. Why? He was worried about your nipples.
4:01Ben:He always is. A week doesn't go past where he doesn't text me and ask about my nipples. Havers is all about the nipple. And was he worried about infection?
4:10Ella:He was worried about the introduction of a foreign object through the paranoia. Whoa, whoa, whoa, Ben. Yeah. Whoa, I didn't think that Nigel... He really was cross with me. Whoa. He takes me to task regularly. Where is it? What's going on? How long did it last?
4:28Ben:It lasted the train journey home. And then I got home and I said to my wife, I was like, I got my nipple pierced. And she was like, no. She was genuinely angry, I think, actually. Because she really, she was really hoping it was going to be you.
4:44Ella:Yes, I know she was. She told me that.
4:46Ben:How did your mum? She said it was a real ick. She said the word ick. And I said, okay, no worries, I'm going to take it out. And I said, well, do you want to see it before I take it out? Yeah. I was like, just look, I'm taking it out now. Why not? Do you want to see it? Because you might like it. And she said, no. So she's actually never seen it. She never saw it. And I took it out. I bled down my chest. And I just sort of held my nipple for five minutes or so, took it off, and it's healed. Do you still have the bar? I've still got the bar just looking at me every time I brush my teeth.
5:20Ella:I feel like that bar represents the only meaningful thing we've done so far in this business.
5:25Ben:And now, it's definitely affected me, I think. There must be some form of scar tissue in there because my left nipple is definitely more protruding than my right. Does it not deflate anymore? No, it hasn't deflated. I'm not like a football where you probably pierce a hole in there and it goes down.
5:52Ella:The fact that it is staying prominent, I think, is good news. Yes. Because it represents something really important, which was the people of the podcast voting for you to be pierced over me. So now we know that the nipple is out, the bar is out, and Nigel Havis is furious. I think we should get down to business, Joel Domit. Let's get down to business.
6:12Ben:Probably a better title for this podcast, actually. Let's get down to business. If you're new here, here is where we're at. So we've had around 6 ,000 of you complete our skincare survey so far, and we're well on our way to 10 ,000 skincare surveys, which will be the largest ever skincare survey taken in the UK. This survey is enabling us to get a really strong idea on what products will develop, and we're super excited to get into. So keep filling in those surveys, please. Oh, we thank you.
6:44Ella:In case you're not aware, we now have a name for the business. Yes, we do. We did a lot of thinking. We really wanted the brand to excite, and I think particularly show our personalities. And then we put them out there, didn't we? Yes, we did. For our podcast listeners and viewers to choose. You voted for Joel and Ben for Skin. And we love it. Yeah, we do. I think it's fair to say some people are not so sure. We definitely are, though. but now we've got the name that we like as disruptive as it might be we need a logo to really bring the brand to life and that is where
7:18Ben:we are at today oh yes indeedy so that's a lovely little summary isn't it I enjoyed that I enjoyed that you can stop the bed down business well done stuff okay right great well done stuff well done stuff
7:31Ella:is that how you do is that how you close off an item well done stuff to catch up on everything that's happened so far listen to the missed episodes why would you not want to listen to this It's magical Wherever you get your podcasts And remember to subscribe You can also watch us on YouTube And subscribe there too I can't say it enough Today's episode is definitely one That's worth watching As well as listening to 100 % You know what I can't stop saying Well done stuff
7:58Ben:Benny Benny Shep Sheps What have we got coming up On today's show please
8:01Ella:Very exciting show Joel Dummy dom dom We know the name We know the name We do indeed Joel and Ben for skin. But now we need a logo. And as we have proven endlessly, relentlessly, some would say tiresomely, we are very competitive. We are indeed. So we both separately briefed our amazing designer, Ella Williams-Brown. And she's here. Hello!
8:29Ben:Hello!
8:30Ella:I-R-L, as the kids say. Yeah. So it's lovely to have you in the studio. Thank you so much for being here and putting up with the two of us.
8:37Ben:It's going to be great. I'm really excited about this. Excited to bring our ideas to life. We both separately talked to you on a Zoom call and sort of gave our thoughts about what we thought with the name and what our logo might look like. And you've brought them to life. And I'm really excited to see what you've brought to us.
8:57Ella:So Ella, can you just explain a little bit about what your job involves?
9:00Joel:Sure. So I basically make things look pretty. As you say, I'm bringing your brand to life. So I design logos, branding, literally anything that you can see, like a website, packaging, etc. I will design.
9:11Ella:We had the brilliant Sam Dumont on the podcast, didn't we? She told us about a creative brief, which is the important part of your job. We give you a creative brief in order for you to go and make that pretty thing happen. So in theory, we knew how we should brief you. Do head to the Patreon if you want to get a sense of a brilliant creative brief template and learn some tips and tricks. the important thing she told us to do Joel
9:36Ben:so the big thing that Sam taught us, Sam Dumont it's not French actually, she sounds more French in name than she is in person she was fantastic, she taught us that you know, words you can draw, she talked about and she had this game where we were like trying to figure out you know, how you would draw certain words, which is like it was very interesting, and we turned out being television entertainment people we turned it into an entertainment format Why not? Of course you did. And we had a really fun game of what we are not officially, because of lawyers, allowed to call Pictionary.
10:11Ella:This is me trying to draw elegance.
Read the full transcript
10:16Ben:Always done. Catwalk. I've gone into charades, which is an entirely different game. Dress. Clothes. He's drawn the title premium. Luxury. Luxurious. Elegant. He's got it He's got it He's got it He's got it
10:33Ella:That was exciting So that was Creative director Russ Trying to guess You commentating on it It's quite hard to draw elegant It's very hard to draw elegant It's hard to say Yes I can't even say either I'm not sure we Particularly Understood the brief Or delivered on the brief Which was words you can draw
10:52Ben:Well this is why we need to get Someone like you in Because we're clearly Not very good At sort of drawing words In our minds We're not very visual people
10:59Joel:Terrible drawing skills Absolutely
11:01Ben:Absolutely awful.
11:02Ella:Really bad descriptive skills as well.
11:04Ben:Yeah, that's true.
11:05Ella:So Ella asked us both loads of questions. So it's going to be really interesting this because I didn't hear your chat with Ella and you didn't hear my chat with Ella. So were we on the same page? It's very interesting. Considering we've been going through this journey together side by side, spooning along the way. How close were we? How complicated did we make it for Ella? Here's some clips of the two of us briefing you.
11:29Ben:What are your brand values? in three words? Fun, simple, high performance. Simple, functional and fun.
11:35Joel:So if your brand was a person, how would you describe them?
11:39Ben:It would be cheeky. It would be hardworking. And so yeah, it's someone who leaves work bang on time so he can have fun with his friends.
11:52Ella:They are very pragmatic and straightforward people. They have lots of things going on in their lives. They have lots of different interests and I think they want to have a laugh. I don't mind it being out there but I want it to be clear I want it to be elegant I think you know the reality of calling the brand Joel and Ben for skin there's enough fun and anarchy and disruption in the name that I think we need to be really careful about the branding and the packaging and how it looks because the name does the humor for us.
12:23Ben:So it's sort of a strange one really for you I think because even though I want people to know that we know that that's what the brand is called. I want them to also know it's a serious brand. We're quite aligned. Hey. Hey. Not bad, hey.
12:37Ella:Were you pleased with how similar we were or did you find, who was better?
12:43Joel:Who was better? I would say Ben, you're actually better at briefing. Congratulations.
12:47Ben:Oh, you worry. I mean, I don't expect that. It's not the first challenge that I've won. It's been better at everything all the way along the way. How is the nipple? Never mind that. yes I think I think I was expecting that why was I bad how can I improve
13:03Joel:I think you were very passionate about the fact that it needed to be fun so while that was fantastic I felt like I maybe needed a little bit more depth
13:13Ben:has that been which Ben gave me I gave you depth
13:16Joel:yes
13:16Ben:this is like therapy I think this is genuinely like I think that's what I could do in life more I feel like I concentrate so much on life being fun what's below what's below the surface with me Like, well, how did my dad not being around affect me? Do you know what I mean?
13:32Ella:But I'm really pleasantly surprised how aligned we were on those little clips about how we describe it, what we want from it. And I think something that we've had a lot is sort of your passion for it and maybe my more pragmatic sort of drive to get it done. It feels like a good fit.
13:52Joel:Yes, definitely, 100%. but where it was quite similar actually made it quite difficult because I needed to give you different routes so to be able to do that I did have to lean in very much into your fun side and more into your clean side but I'll show you later.
14:07Ben:So tell us a little bit about how the process of how you got to Ben's one and how you got to my one what was different and what worked what
14:17Ella:didn't how you took all our ingredients and turned them into some magical something good.
14:21Joel:So obviously we started off with your words so ben we had reliable elegant clean sophisticated high performance and accessible and then joel's were quite different joel was just like fun no no we had cheeky fun crafted which i loved because that's quite nice from from my perspective works obviously um and challenger
14:44Ben:Challenger Challenger Yes I don't know I have absolutely no idea I clearly had an extra flat white that day I like crafted I like crafted It feels quite like beer-y Do you know what I mean?
14:59Ella:Like an IPA Craft beer world
15:01Joel:It's been considered
15:03Ella:And it's been thought about And all the little elements Are really finely tuned Yes
15:08Joel:Created by you
15:09Ben:Guys this is fantastic I feel like I'm at a parent teacher-y
15:13Joel:Am I the teacher? Yeah, I think so. Okay, okay.
15:16Ben:I think that makes Ben my day.
15:19Ella:We've talked about that each issue.
15:31Joel:And then from there, I was thinking about the worlds that already exist that kind of portray those words. So for Ben, I've thought about high performance kind of sport world. So you think about logos like Under Armour, Nike, they have a special academy place which has loads of lovely typography. And then also modern whiskey.
15:51Ben:A bit of a modern take. And then for Joel, you said craft beer when we spoke. Yes.
15:58Joel:And I very much leaned into that. And then from there, I started looking into typography. So something like a sans serif font, which is basically where it's just very blocky and doesn't have any flourishes around it, can be seen as quite premium. So I've chosen quite a lot of those for you, Ben. And then when you look at more of a script font, which feels kind of handwritten or crafted, I've chosen that kind of thing for you.
16:20Ben:Nice.
16:21Joel:Yes. You then kind of try and create components and then what looks good. So for instance, I might make the four really small compared to the skin because we want the skin to be the most prominent. And you can do that through typography. You can do it through the weight of the font. The weight of the font. Yeah, so whether it's going to be light or whether it's going to be really chunky and bold. Right, okay. Or if what I have done, which is I went off-piste. I love that.
16:47Ella:So you know it should be Joel and Ben for skin. Yes.
16:52Joel:It is now for skin by Joel and Ben.
16:56Ella:We've got an episode coming out with Trini Woodall. Oh, yeah. And she immediately said for skin by Joel and Ben.
17:04Joel:Did she?
17:05Ella:She immediately said, have you thought about doing it like that? And I think one of her theories about that was the future, but also reselling the business. Yeah. You know, whatever that might be. Whatever that. Yeah. It's interesting you've been drawn to doing that as well.
17:18Joel:Yes, because visually, hierarchy, you want the brand name to stand out more than your names. And it also feels like it's created by you. Whereas if you have Joel and Ben for skin, then that kind of feels like you're just the faces of the brand. Like it's just kind of there.
17:33Ben:Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
17:34Joel:But I wanted to make it feel like you've created it because you have. Yeah.
17:38Ella:Okay. I think it's great. It makes sense to me. It feels elegant.
17:44Joel:Perfect. One of your favourite words. You know what it feels?
17:47Ella:Crafted.
17:47Ben:Does it feel crafty? It feels crafted. Crafted and elegant. It feels crafted and elegant, guys. It's my new word I'm going to use on everything.
17:54Joel:Also thinking about uses of colour. So for something quite premium, you'll probably expect more of a subdued colour palette. So something like, I don't know, like a navy blue, dark grey. And if you're looking for something more fun, then you want some punchy colours, right? So maybe a bright orange or a neon yellow, something like that. So that was also quite interesting to explore with both of your different routes.
18:14Ella:Yeah. Are you drawn? It's funny because I definitely naturally drawn to dark colours, but I do like a real pop of something exciting as well.
18:23Ben:Yeah, it's true. And it's also, you know, it comes down to what skincare stuff in general looks like in the male space. and you go in and usually it's white bottles with like a black text or, you know, you've got L 'Oreal Expert, which is like, which is a very bright orange. And then you've got Horace, which is like a darker blue.
18:44Joel:You've been studying.
18:45Ben:Yeah, Clarence is also a dark blue. It's very masculine, that sort of stuff. So getting away from those to try and find out what's your niche in all of that is quite interesting.
18:56Joel:Exactly. So I also did quite a lot of that. So I did lots of research into other people. and what they're doing so to make sure that you really stand out really cool for your own brand i'm even more excited now so another factor that i needed to explore was the fact that this isn't just going to be for skin right you're going to be doing other products so it's going to be for play for eyes for head so we were exploring all the different ways it's going to work so i had to create something quite flexible so i couldn't have for instance the four flowing really beautifully into the word skin because then that's not going to work for play so it had to be quite flexible which is another challenge we've made it quite difficult
19:31Ben:for you haven't we we have thank you so much I'm really sorry has this felt like sort of the final sort of university thing my final piece your final piece built towards this final thing kind of I won't lie I'm so sorry it's okay I've loved it good have you enjoyed the process
19:48Joel:yes I have it's my favourite thing to do it's so fun oh that's nice
19:51Ella:are you ready to present your final practical thesis
19:55Joel:I think so
19:56Ella:Ella I've never been more ready for something
19:58Ben:in my entire life Are you excited? Oh, my God, it's there. It's under your coat. I just thought that was a chair. I thought it was just like an air conditioning unit that we're covered up with a coat.
20:06Joel:Okay, you ready? Yes.
20:07Ben:Yes, please.
20:09Joel:Okay, number one.
20:10Ben:Oh, my God, this is mental. I love it.
20:12Joel:So these ones are Ben's. So you can see...
20:15Ben:I think it's great.
20:16Joel:What it looks like as a product.
20:19Ella:Yes. So what we're looking at, in case you're not, if you're listening, it's really clear for skin. They're capital letters. The skin is a thicker font. Is that right? Yeah. Joel and Ben. It's a beautiful sort of bronzy brown colour of the square box with sort of some light going across the middle of it. And then next to it is a, what is I think, a metal silvery pot. It's like an aluminium. Yeah. That'll be the one. This is great. It looks sophisticated. It looks elegant, doesn't it? I like it. I mean, guys, that's the end of the episode. Thank you so much for tuning in. It's been fantastic. Bye, Ella.
20:56Ella:Here's the thing. What's really interesting, because this was one And for me, right, you love brown. You are all brown. You are, you know, you are.
21:04Ben:Today, literally the only day I think in probably months I've not worn brown. Well, you've got, this is sort of brown. Brownish. Well, it's an autumnal, isn't it? It's all in some olive green browns. And I'm not really, but I really am drawn to that colour.
21:16Ella:That feels masculine, doesn't it? It feels quite musky and cool and like a cigar or a whiskey colouring.
21:25Ben:It's the colour that I dye my beard. Is it?
21:29Joel:Why? You've got a grey beard.
21:31Ben:Yeah, because I've got grey patches. Oh, I see. And so, as you can see, because I did it yesterday, you know, I have to do it every three days. I go and dye my beard. And it's that sort of colour. So for those of you that aren't watching, imagine what Joel's coloured beard is. That's the colour we're going for. And the aluminium pot is what it would look like if I didn't dye it. Yes.
21:50Ella:It's exactly what my inspiration was. It's looking at your chin in the packaging.
21:54Ben:Oh, I love it. Great stuff. That's great. That is really good.
21:58Joel:Okay. so this is called a sans serif font
22:00Ben:also can I just before you break it down I'm so glad that it's good because I was so scared to finish it
22:09Joel:thanks so much faith in me I was so scared
22:11Ben:I had no see this is why
22:12Joel:Ben's the favourite
22:13Ella:no concerns whatsoever
22:15Ben:I was so scared I'd be like mmm yeah yeah nice yeah yeah interesting that you've got mmm yeah yeah it's great
22:21Ella:so sans serif
22:23Ben:what's the sans serif
22:24Joel:sans serif font is basically when there's no like flourishes anywhere so sometimes you'll see a font and it's got like a little line under here and here and here that basically i use this to make it look quite high performance so if you look at brands like under armor they all use sans serif fonts right and then we've used a lower weight font here um to let the skin be the hero as we were talking about earlier um and then as i said bye joel and ben yeah it works just for visual hierarchy as well yes and then this when you increase the letters spacing it's called kerning in designer talk.
23:00Ella:So the gaps between the letters
23:01Joel:in the letters, which makes it feel more premium.
23:04Ella:So bigger gap between the four.
23:06Joel:Bigger gaps equals premium.
23:07Ella:Amazing. So that's number one.
23:08Joel:That's number one. You ready for number two?
23:10Ella:This is the second one for my boo-hoo.
23:12Joel:This is the second one for Ben, yes. I love the pot.
23:16Ben:Oh, interesting. Different vibe. Very different vibe.
23:20Joel:Very different vibe. What are your initial thoughts?
23:23Ella:My initial thoughts would be, so what we're looking at this time is sort of, is that royal blue?
23:29Joel:Cobalt.
23:30Ella:Cobalt blue. All the lettering is white, so it's cobalt blue. So it's very blue and really striking. You've done the four vertically, the skin horizontally. Yeah. It's interesting with the zero, the O on four is sliced in half as well. So it looks a bit more futuristic, I guess. And then Joel and Ben is a bit more structured as well.
23:56Ben:Initially, when you turned around, I was like, I don't like this as much. And now it's sort of growing on me. You would definitely see it on the shelf. It's striking, isn't it? It feels more traditional. It feels more... Louder? Masculine. Impactful. Impactful. But in another way, because the other one isn't shouting, you're more drawn to it.
24:21Joel:Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. Do you know what I mean? It feels more premium and expensive because everything's smaller.
24:27Ben:that feels more premium
24:28Ella:yes so
24:29Ben:oh it's interesting
24:30Ella:so talk us through this one then so
24:33Joel:again with the sans serif font now we know what that means emphasis on the skin so I've made this really bold and quite impactful as we were saying and then I've actually put this line through here to represent you guys because you're the duo so there's now two parts to this O
24:48Ella:I think what's interesting as well is on the packaging on the on the on the box
24:53Joel:you've just
24:54Ella:I like the The repetition of the logo, the O that's split in half.
25:00Joel:Yeah.
25:00Ella:Because that almost becomes what the logo for the brand is.
25:04Joel:Yeah. It's the logo mark, which can be used across all these other products that you're going to launch.
25:09Ben:I think that's really, really interesting. It's two really different types of branding, and I like them both in such different ways. Do me, do me. Do me. It's Jost's turn. Right.
25:24Joel:Are you ready?
25:26Ben:I'm ready. I'm not sure you're ready, Ella.
25:28Joel:I don't know whether I am either.
25:31Ben:Oh, I like it. I like it.
25:40Ella:That's a lot to take in, isn't it?
25:43Joel:So it's a lot more loud than the previous versions. I like it.
25:48Ben:I like it. A lot more going on. It's definitely much more IPA-ish. It's sort of a dark, sort of burnt orange almost. And the font is very... Cursive? What's it reminding me of, that font?
26:04Ella:Like it's... Like it's crept. Is it like brill cream or something like that? Something like that, yeah. It feels like foamy. It feels like a snake. Yeah, it's fun. So the S is a very long curling snake. It's black, but it's shadowed with a sort of grey. Is that a grey or beige?
26:21Joel:I'd say more beige More beige
26:23Ella:So it's a really curly S I love it That joins up with the K That joins up with the I and the N And it's got a lovely little curl on it The 4 is capitalised Yeah And then you've got hydration again Which again is the beige on the black Against the burnt orange It feels difficult
26:40Ben:Now you've mentioned the thing of like We're going to change for skin For forehead For, you know That feels like something that's maybe more difficult it won't feel as that's our brand once you change the skin word something different yes so forehead four eyes but I really like I really like it I really like how fun it is
26:59Ella:I like the stamp as well the other thing that Ella's done is she's stamped in the corner in a circle by Joel and Ben and she's given us a little logo the JB signatures what was your thinking here
27:13Joel:so you'll see that the four has dotted the I So, Joel, as you were saying...
27:21Ella:You'll see that, Joel. Did you see that?
27:25Ben:Mind blown.
27:30Ben:That's good stuff. Love it. That is good stuff. You will see that. You will see, yes. You know, like that thing where you work out that FedEx is actually an arrow. Have you seen that?
27:42Joel:Yes, crazy.
27:43Ben:Oh, stuff like that.
27:43Joel:However, Joel, as you were saying, this does make it a little bit more challenging for the rest of the words, but it just means that we find different clever ways within that word.
27:51Ella:Yeah, you can have fun with it and that helps them cook.
27:53Joel:Yeah, exactly. And we've chosen a very playful and fun font, as per the brief, which also gives a sense of craft, which is also why I've added this shadow onto there. You see that quite a lot in craft beer world. They have quite a lot of fun with their typography. So I've also added a very bold and chunky hydration in Ben's versions they're quite small but they're in white so it's yeah attracts you more to it whereas this one you need it almost like a sticker which complements this stamp quite nicely that's
28:26Ben:that's what it feels like I think to me it feels like you know that sort of like someone's suitcase where they've had like stickers been travelling around the world and like it's like you've gone to have poor skin and you've gone to hydration and you now you describe it like that
28:42Ella:Annie's got an old suitcase of her dad's that's got all his old travelling stickers on, this gorgeous leather suitcase. And you're right, it's got hydration, it's been stamped by us, it's got aloe vera.
28:51Joel:Which also builds trust, right? People are looking for something that they think has credibility. It's been around. Yeah.
28:56Ben:That's great. So that's that one. Oh no, we've only got one more. I've already been sad that it's coming to an end.
29:11Joel:this is a bit of a wild card prepare yourselves ready?
29:16Ben:yep whoa
29:20Joel:Ben's like what?
29:22Ella:whoa that is a ganale man so this is under the sea it's so you've got green and sort of light blue turquoise sort of swirls, straight swirls that look like they could be underwater reeds or seaweed or something. There's a strange little... He's an aloe vera. It's not an aloe vera. Angry little aloe vera. Sweaty aloe vera. He looks a little bit mischievous, doesn't he? He does. Which is what we say, cheeky. Cheeky, that's dripping. And then the foreskin is great. It's really dynamic. The skin, the fore is in capitals. Above the skin, which looks like it's been spray-painted, graffitied on. It's very graffitied.
30:02Ella:That's in red, so red is black.
30:03Ben:If sort of a moisturiser was made by that company Fat Willys. Do you remember Fat Willys? Yes. Fat Willys Shack. There was a surf shack called Fat Willys. It was like the coolest coat you could have. Because also when you were in school, they would have this cool coat called Fat Willys. And secretly everyone was like, it's Willys. But it's also like, it was cool. It was cool. I promise you Fat Willys was so cool. I haven't thought about that since I last said the word bellend. Sex wax. Wasn't Fat Willys? Sex, Max. It was all double entendre. It was the same time as like FCUK. Yes.
30:36Joel:Oh, I've got a lot of homework to do, I think. Right. If you look at these.
30:39Ben:If you just look up 1991.
30:42Joel:Okay.
30:43Ella:This feels much edgier, doesn't it? Yes. It feels much younger.
30:48Ben:It feels... But does it feel like it's two old men trying to be young? And cool. That feels like a title card for something that we would have written for ITV2. Do you know what I mean? Just like, oh, there's young people like cool faces and stuff, right? I think, I think I hate it.
31:16Joel:Which is perfectly fine because I said, please be honest.
31:19Ben:I think I hate it. but only because I know this is the wild kind this is why it's good it's good to push ourselves yeah you know because we might love it but yeah it really reminds me of something I was obsessed with skateboarding I sort of still am and it reminds me of something that you would put on a skateboarding deck
31:40Joel:yeah it's quite skatey isn't it
31:42Ben:in like the 90s surfy quite surfy yeah and actually I don't think that is our customer The only thing I really like about the idea is I like the idea of taking that character and making an advert where he's just like, hey, hey, guys, you look like you got wrinkles. I need to sort that out. Here's some aloe vera, bitch. And then he's like... Foskey. Foskey. Ben's aloe vera Foskey. Yeah. And then he jumps out and jumps back into the pot. This is great. I'm really... Because if they were all incredible, we wouldn't realise how good they are but you put one in to make us realise this is what happened when they went to estate agents show you houses
32:26Joel:yes
32:27Ben:they show you a really good one we've got one next door I think you're going to really love this let me show you this one next door and the one next door is awful and then it makes you think the one that they showed you first of all is way better even if it's much more expensive yes and then they end up buying it I know your fucking game you know my game I've just sucked you right out
32:45Ella:So look, what we need to do... Sorry, I swore. No, no, no. Look, what I want... I'm liking this more. Look at it. Can we... Do you want to look at them next to each other? Yes, please.
32:56Joel:Which one with which?
32:57Ella:So we need to choose one each.
32:58Joel:Yes, you do.
32:59Ella:For each of our versions. Right, right. And then Ella's going to go off and refine them.
33:02Joel:Yeah.
33:03Ella:Okay, so if I go... Look, I think I absolutely love this. I think I absolutely love this.
33:11Ben:I think I really like that too. Right, Ella. I'm going to go crazy. because I know we're supposed to pick one of mine and one of Ben's. Clearly we picked that one of Ben's.
33:21Joel:Yeah.
33:22Ben:Could we, like, make another one for me?
33:25Joel:Yes.
33:26Ben:It's never happening. Never happening. You start down this route.
33:30Joel:Part of the creative process.
33:31Ben:Yeah. This sort of, this fun.
33:34Joel:Yeah. Mixed with... New fonts? What are you thinking?
33:40Ben:Something that's more obvious, I think.
33:42Joel:Okay.
33:43Ben:More obvious. Like this is like, yes, I know what I'm doing there. Yeah. For skin. It's more obvious. This fun, but more obvious.
33:52Joel:Okay. So we just need to basically look at different kind of fonts for the logo itself.
33:56Ben:Yeah.
33:57Joel:But keep that extra brand world around it.
33:59Ben:Yeah. And I like the way it feels craft beer-y. Like I really like that fun. It feels fun. And I like that.
34:06Joel:Yeah.
34:07Ben:You've been absolutely amazing. I genuinely enjoyed this. Good. And thank you for all your hard work.
34:12Joel:I feel so welcome.
34:14Ben:So fascinating to understand the process behind it all. And thank you for listening to us because I'll be honest, a lot of people don't. So what's going to happen now is, if this is okay, Ella, I'm so sorry, is that we'll make one more for us now. We've really sat down and talked about it. This has been really great and really creative and really interesting. And we'll take the one that Ben has selected and we will have two designs then. that we will then give to the general public.
34:46Joel:Exactly, yeah.
34:47Ben:And they will decide. Between the two. Between the two. Yep, and they haven't let us down so far, so.
34:53Joel:They let you down.
34:54Ben:Yes. Oh, yeah.
34:56Ella:Consistent. They have never let me down. My people. My people. Ella, thank you so much. Thank you for having me. It's been absolutely brilliant. Head over to our Patreon to hear some more from our brilliant designer, Ella. Have you got an Instagram or anything you want people to contact you on, Ella?
35:10Joel:It's Elevation Studio.
35:12Ben:Elevation Studio.
35:13Joel:Ella.
35:15Ben:Oh, she's fucking done it again!
35:17Joel:She's done it again!
35:19Ella:Boom. Ella. I did get that one, though. Incredible. Nope.
35:25Joel:Thanks, Ben.
35:25Ella:You're incredible. Thank you, Ella. For skin. Thank you. Let's do this. For skin. For skin. Hands in the middle.
35:34Ben:For skin. Let's do that after every interview we do. Thank you. You
From the publisher
Brand designer Ella turns Ben and Joel's individual visions for the brand into reality. After receiving two separate creative briefs from each of them, Ella presents four unique logo concepts: two inspired by Ben’s direction and two shaped by Joel’s ideas.
From typography and colour palettes to shape language and brand mood, she walks the team through her creative process. The brand is beginning to take shape and this episode captures the exciting moments where creativity and business vision meet.
Head to Patreon for more from Ella: https://shorturl.at/R6Z9X
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