'This Skincare Ingredient Changed My Life’ - Nic Taylor on Launching 47 Skin

0:00All you've got is your gut. So we launched it, the business with five grand. We kind of, and we've never taken any funding or anything like that. So we've had to be profitable and had to do things not on a shoestring, but we've had to do things, you know, we can't just, yeah, bootstrapped.

0:14The Businessmen, sponsored by BT Business. Welcome back to the podcast, ladies and gentlemen, children, if you fancy it. He's Joel Domer, I'm Ben Shepard, and this is the journey of the two of us, the businessmen, trying to create our own male skincare brand. If you are new here, where have you been, you idiots? Make sure you go back to the beginning and catch up on what on earth we've been up to wherever you get your podcasts. And we'd love you to subscribe, wouldn't we, Joel? Yes, we would. You can also catch us on YouTube if you fancy looking at our faces too, which I mean, look, I think it's worth it.

0:48That guy has amazing skin.

0:55Welcome to Crime Scene, the new weekly show from The Binge where we tell you the stories behind the world's most unforgettable crimes. I'm Jonathan Hirsch. You may know me as the host of My Fugitive Dad or Dear Franklin Jones. Watching you. I'm an executive producer of The Binge, the true crime podcast network where we bring you a new series on the first of every month. For Crime Scene, I'm joined by my producer and co-host Cooper Mall, the reporter and voice behind Fatal Beauty and the crimes of Margot Freshwater. We know there are a lot of true crime podcasts out there. I think what makes Crime Scene different is that Cooper and I have boots on the ground.

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2:26this is like Gandalf's going we must go to Mordor but before then we must visit the Pipeline Industries guild Frodo did all that stuff absolutely they loved it they loved it is it a new guild it was no 57th year wow the pipe guild there was a thousand people in a room who just absolutely love pipe who doesn't love pipe goodness me love pipe and I just was so let me tell you I was really worried about this gig so I was like oh it's going to be a nightmare I was on late I had to do 20 to 30 minutes of stand-up comedy I was like it's going to be really hot they were a lovely bunch of people it turns out people who love pipe love Domit yeah turns out that is that it's the same Venn diagram I'm glad that went well I was hosting the Carers Awards oh my god which was an amazing award ceremony up at the ICC in Birmingham enormous awards of all the carers over the country I think you've been there and you've done it in the past I haven't done it since 2012 the last time I did it since 2012, right?

3:26And I wondered why they'd invited me back. And I thought it might be because of The Masked Singer and because I've been with Conquest The Masked Singer. Turns out that the team that do the Carers Awards, big fans of men's health. Wow! Big fans of men's health. That's so funny. So I was able to share again my front cover of Men's Health. Turns out quite a lot of carers like men's health as well, Joel. Of course they do. Of course they do. But they made me feel incredibly welcome. I did a different Caregiver's Awards. There was another separate one. And it was genuinely really fun. Again, it's just a lovely industry, I think.

4:05But it was started off, this gig, with the cast of The Lion King, right? And so the cast of The Lion King, it was an unbelievable gig. So you had The Lion King, so I was genuinely offstage. It was one of those weird scenarios. What? The Lion King? And then later on, I was doing like a masked singer version for the gig and revealing who was going to be singing later on at the gig. And so there was this weird moment where I was like, I think I'm in showbiz because I was there. There was three people in an elephant. Right. And this is in the backstage bit of Grover in the House. You know, there's people wandering past with like blancmange at the same time.

4:44There's three people in an elephant. There's one person in front of the elephant, like literally guiding the elephant out. so guiding them out like a person in front of an aeroplane and then uh then i was there and then next to me was um jason donovan and an alligator mask i was like this is showbiz man and then i went on stage and then i asked off stage the the organizer of this event i was like this is amazing they were singing kuna matata and it was just beautiful and i was like well this is such a great idea, you know, like it's about the circle of life and the caregivers. It's very much the circle of life.

5:22And it's like the people caring for people at the end of their lives. That's an amazing, what a brilliant way to start the show with that. And the person who organized the whole event went, I didn't think of that.

5:37Amazing. Just random. Love it. Just random. Amazing industry. So busy week for both of us. We've got a fantastic guest on today's show. A young man called Nick Taylor, who is the founder of 47 Skin, which is a product and a skincare brand that I came across because of my boys being teenagers and having a few issues with their skin. It's become fastest growing skincare brands in the country. It's mad. So what's fascinating is he created it after his grandma found a couple of bottles of an ingredient at a sort of a craft fair somewhere up north. He's from around Yorkshire, York way. And she basically sent him these bottles and said, try this for your skin.

6:22He hadn't really talked about that. And it did an incredible job on his skin where he had battled for years and years and years and years. And he said, right, I've got to track down what this ingredient is. And off the back of that, he created 47 skin. So it's an amazing story. Let's do it now. Let's get into it with Nick. You're going to love it. Hello, Nick. Welcome. Thank you. Thank you very much for coming and hanging out with us. So, Nick, it's brilliant to have you on The Businessmen. Joel and I are on the sort of start of a journey into a skincare brand, which we're launching for men. You have successfully launched an extraordinary skincare company that is absolutely exploding, which is really, really exciting.

7:01but we'd love to sort of drive down and understand where it all started and how it all started before 47 Skin became what it is now. What was your journey to that point? Yeah, of course. So I had bad spots and blemishes around the age of about, started about 16. I went out at school and when I was at school, I wasn't the one with the worst spots and blemishes. So it always kind of gave me that kind of almost comfort that, you know, it wasn't the worst. And as I got older and older, it started to kind of impact me more and more. So I went through school, got to university, and I remember doing stuff like getting ready for a night out, looking in the mirror and thinking, oh, God, I can't go out.

7:36Because it was in the days where, I don't know if it still happens, but where they'd have a photographer for a night out. And then in the morning, you see the photos, you think, oh, God, could you realize that your skin didn't look good? So it's never want to see those pictures in the morning. Yeah, absolutely not. And you scroll down to Facebook and go, oh, God, and everyone's seeing it. So it really impacted my confidence around that age. And then I do things like miss lectures and stuff like that. Because of your skin? Yeah, because I just didn't really want to grow out. So that kind of bugged me, but it didn't bug me enough to properly try and solve it.

8:05And then I had my first graduate job and I went in to meet a buyer. And I always thought I'm going to take my career really seriously. Went in to meet the buyer and she said, I can see they've sent their baby to do the bidding. And she was referring to the fact that I had spots on my face. How does it make you feel? It makes you feel like that, which is partly what a buyer's job is. They're trying to kind of like neg the person from day one. But it's a bit kind of personal, isn't it? It makes you feel really small. It did. And also you're already conscious because you're 23 in an office where most people are in their 30s, 40s, whatever.

8:33So that really knocked me. And I thought, well, I'm not having it stop my career. So then I set about trying to think, okay, is it I went to cheap stores, bought the products there, they didn't help. I went to expensive stores, bought those products, they didn't help. And then I thought, maybe I need to go like more professional. So I went to get a laser treatment. I remember getting in this on me like a pack of eight different cycles where I did the first treatment. and I remember the lady saying, I was writhing in pain and the lady was like, oh, don't worry, men have got low pain thresholds.

9:03Walked out and they basically like burnt the side of my face to the point where it looked like a carpet burned. So I've got a passport photo at home where it looks like, I couldn't go out in the sun for like two weeks afterwards. So that was horrific. And then I thought my final kind of step was like, right, I need to go to the doctors because going back to the school thing, the way that everyone else had sorted out the spots and blemishes, they'd gone on quite aggressive antibiotics. so at the moment in the UK the solution is if you can't do it through products then the doctor will put you on to this so he goes to the doctor, he recommended a topical cream which I tried, I thought that won't work and it didn't and then eventually why did you think that wouldn't work?

9:38because nothing had, so anything topical hadn't solved the problem so I'd just sort of given up, I'd tried so many different things and it was persistent and you'd have some times when your skin was a bit better and you'd think oh look at the world, it's a good day and then other days when you'd like and they'd always happen on the days that you didn't want them to like an interview and all sorts of stuff the easiest way just to knock your confidence and the reality is that when you've got spots and blemishes you think that everyone's just staring at that spot they're not they're thinking about whatever's going on in their own head so yeah so I go to the doctor try the topical cream that didn't work then I go back and say can you give me the antibiotics the reason why I hadn't had antibiotics previously is because you're not supposed to drink on them and at university six months of not drinking didn't feel like it was an option right that's not a compromise even you were willing to know.

10:22No, I was not willing to, yeah. So I had the antibiotics and I thought, oh, great, finally I've got a solution to this problem. Do you remember what it was? Yeah, it's... Raracutane? Yeah, yeah, Raracutane. Yeah, yeah. So I went on that and then it kind of attacks the host at the same time as attacking the spots. So whilst it all sort of zapped the spots, it also creates like dry skin and cracking around your lips and all this sort of stuff. So it's kind of wiping out your skin at the same time as wiping out spots. It's brutal, isn't it? Yeah. I mean, it can be incredibly effective. of course yeah but you know you're taking it yes exactly so but I was pleased about this because despite the fact that my skin really hurt and all that sort of stuff I thought fantastic I'm finally getting rid of these spots doing something exactly and then I was watching an article it was a BBC thing about a very very dark topic and I remember thinking why don't more people do that so it was a really dark thought that kind of happened in my head and I thought that's not normal so I went back to the doctors and said I'm having these weird thoughts and he went oh yeah well it's a known side effect is depression and only later in life did I realise how important that is because if you're struggling with spots and blemishes for the most part it's teens right so you're going into school you're already having a pretty rough time and then you get given some medicine as far as you're concerned and then you start having weird thoughts but you won't put the two and two together I was 25 by this point so I knew pretty clearly it wasn't how my brain worked so kind of you know I went back to the doctor and said I don't like having spots and blemishes but equally it's obviously not worth this so kind of came off it and then I just thought well I'm just gonna have to live with this and for someone who's living with it it's I don't know if you have you guys suffered in spots of literature yeah it's horrible when I was younger probably till I was about till I was about 20 I'd say something like that interesting because I wasn't too bad through my teenage years and then I went to university and it went it was awful I used to wash my face in fairy liquid wow because I thought the only way I'm going to sort this out is super dry I've got to dry it up it's obviously really greasy or whatever and I ended up going on about antibiotics in the end when i was about 22 23 and fortunately it did all those things you're talking about i didn't have the side effects but it dried my skin out enormously but it did clear it up and then i don't know you know that so but it's that thing and you're as soon as you said if you've got spots you feel like everybody's staring at them i know identify with that so clearly because it's exactly how i remember feeling going walking into university that freshest week of university and just being so self-conscious about that people aren't talking to me they're talking to the blemishes on my skin yeah exactly and and and so i'm going back to life basically with accepting the fact that i'm gonna have spots and blemishes in my face i'm going to an office every day where i've got these spots and blemishes i remember one day sitting i had three spots perfectly lined up i don't know how that works and and i remember sitting all day like this typing with one hand because i was so conscious yeah and i wouldn't wear white shirt i used to have bad back acne so i wouldn't wear white shirts and the other thing that people don't talk about is not only is it uncomfortable from a confidence point of view, but it's actually physically painful, which you both empathise with because you remember.

13:18But it's one of those things that once you've not got it anymore, you quickly forget. But if all of a sudden you woke up and you did have it again, these things would come back pretty quickly. So anyway, sat at my desk, a parcel arrived. We were in one of those offices where people kind of go along with a trolley and hand out the parcels and stuff. And I get a parcel and I could tell immediately it was from my grandma because the handwriting got so big it was like a licence. and it had opened the thing up and it's an unlabeled pot of cream that said but handwritten note that said uh dear nick uh there's a local formulation apparently it's amazing for spot uh for spots and blemishes uh first thought was thanks grandma you know sort of spots and blemishes thought of me but that's interesting because it's love i mean that's how much you've got a grandma that that really cared about you had you talked about it with your family had your parents talked about it with her do you think do you know what no one's ever asked me that and i don't think i I don't think I openly spoke about it, but I think you could see how it impacted me.

14:09But she knew there was something. She knew, yeah. And so she very kindly sent me this pot of cream and I put it to one side and thought, well, that won't work. Nothing ever does, right? So put it in the, I can still think exactly where I put it in the house. And then I was going off on a business trip to Spain for four days. And I thought, well, I'll take it with me and use it up as an afterson. So at least I can tell her I've used it because she keeps asking and it won't work. But at least then I've used it. So I go with me to, I take it with me to Spain, use it for four days. and the other thing about spots and blemishes is when you're in the sun, they reduce naturally.

14:38So I'm using it for four days and my spots and blemishes kind of go, which is unusual but not totally because I'm in the sun and I'm kind of thinking that's odd. But anyway, get back to London and they don't return. And I walked into a pub in Fulham and a girl that I'd known for 20 years pulled me to one side and said, Nick, what have you done to your skin? You look amazing. And I thought no one's ever said that. So the spots and blemishes have gone and now my skin looks a lot better. And it was just kind of continued to use it. kind of baffled by what it was are you attributing it to your grandma's potion at this point oh 100 yeah you know now there's something in this that's yeah i've realized it's not it's not a coincidence um so so i kind of try and find out who's behind this product i think somebody in america then somebody in the uk turns out somebody a scientist up north who'd mixed two things together who's trying to mix these things for water treatment so antibacterial was that was the aim right so silver and chitoderm.

15:32You bonded the two things together. The logic is silver is antibacterial and chitoderm is sticky and mucoadhesive. So if you bond the two things together, the chitoderm will stick to the bacteria and the silver will kill it. But it's too expensive in water treatment and noticed that when he was using it, the condition on his hand started to change and sort of thought there's something in this, but we're not quite sure what it is. Test it in veterinary services and then test it in a handful of skincare bottles. the handful of skincare bottles, he then took to like a store or whatever. And I later found out the only person who talked to him all day was my grandma, who bought two bottles.

16:08One went to me and one went to my sister. I don't know if my sister ever used it, by the way. I need to ask her. But came to me and then we met, partnered, and 47 Skin came to be. Wow. What? Because I knew this story, but it's so like she's given you this bottle and also like given you this business. You know, she's not just helped your skin. She's, you know, helped your livelihood. She's helped you on the start of this amazing job. How incredible. Like, grandparents, man. What was your grandmother's name? Pat. Pat. Granny Pat. Granny Pat. What a legend. So, interestingly, you get this bottle.

16:43You now know the formulation. You now know the guy that put it together. You understand all those things. But in terms of what that formulation did, Can you put into words how that, before 47 Skin was created, the difference that made to your life, Nick? It was enormous because you're at that age where you're going into work meetings, but you're not super confident because you're just trying to find your feet. You're at the age where you're dating. You're at the age where it's social. And it used to just knock me all the time having the problem with my skin. And all of a sudden that was lifted.

17:20So it made the world of difference, to be honest. I've got grandma to thank for that. But it's lovely with grandma because she was a nurse. She sadly passed away a few years ago, but she saw where 47 got before that. And there's some nice stuff around that. But yeah, she was a nurse for 40, 50 years. So she was helping people. And then she wasn't wealthy by any measure. And then the fact that she's going and spending her money on products, there's a real niceness to it. And then the mission now is to get silver chitiderm into the hands of people who are suffering with their skin. So it's continuing that mission that grandma set off that day without realizing.

17:51And she's a nurse, so she has that vocation to want to look after people, to help them feel better, regardless of what the condition is. My mum's a nurse, so they've always got that thing in them and looking out for you. Incredible. What an amazing journey. And obviously you sort of came at it from the point of going, I know this works. And also it hasn't worked. It's the start of its journey of these ingredients. So let me give that to other people. I assume that was... It is exactly that. So it's an amazing story in retrospect, but then you have the reality of going, well, we've got this thing that works, right?

18:27But then it's how do you get it out to people? And that's coming to the challenge of starting a skincare business and going on from there. Because my original strapline with it was skincare that actually works because it actually works. I thought, great, I'll just tell people that and then they'll buy it. And it didn't happen, obviously, like that. So we launched it and kind of nothing happened. so then you've got to figure out how to communicate it build trust etc etc um so then it it was in in a way that's the story but it was really just the start of the story because it all kind of happened after that when did you go do you know what i want to make this a business and what was that transition like from having a full-time job yeah to then going i'm going to run my own business well so i was working for one of the big uh corporate um that owned like a ton of brands like you'd know them and they're they're big and a number of skincare brands in there yeah and i learned an awful lot working for those guys and i recommend you know it's brilliant i would thoroughly enjoy my time there but the when i came across this product it it felt not i wouldn't say as far as vocational but it genuinely felt like there was a mission that we've got to do this it felt quite selfish to go i found the solution thing that i've been struggling with forever and not really get it out to anyone else i'll just kind of keep using it and yeah so it felt like there was not an obligation but it but it but there was a certain mission behind it and working for the other business i remember there was an inflection point where i thought if i don't go now i'm never going to do it and it was the timing is right and all this stuff i didn't obviously know that covid was around the corner but covid ended up being kind of i wouldn't say but i don't say beneficial because it's awfully awful but but the way that it uh the timing of it meant that i just just focused on the business for that period of time so lockdown for me was incredibly busy but going back to the question so yeah it was that it was that moment of knowing if if not now probably never so he's going to go for it and i remember coming down the stairs on on so i finished on the friday came down the stairs on the monday you'd think you should actually just start on the saturday but i took the weekend and uh and then came down at 8 a.m and i was it's funny actually at this point you hadn't quite transitioned so i was still wearing like a shirt that you would at the previous year.

20:37Yeah, yeah. All this sort of stuff. And I remember sitting down and going, well, actually, when I came down the stairs, this is a nice, I came downstairs and my mum and dad, Tony and Claire, so mum had retired a while ago, a nurse as well, and my dad was in, ran a manufacturing business, but had recently retired. Came down the stairs, and I remember thinking, this is it, you're pretty alone now. And I came down and they both had T-shirts on that said Tony at 47 Skin. Oh, how amazing. Yeah, and I've got nice. Your family needs to stop being so adorable. of your family are unbelievable. I love your family so much.

21:08This is so great to have that support. It's so important, you know. It is, yeah. It really, and I think that's a key thing though with the businesses. When you start a business, you'd be amazed by the way people step forward to help you. Yeah. So obviously I was very lucky with my family, but it goes beyond that. Even the acts of random people will help you with stuff and it can really, really drive the business forward. So yeah, I came downstairs and then uh what do you do day one eight o 'clock you in your shirt mum and dad have got their uniforms on yeah do you know what i one of the first things i did i wrote to a thousand retailers i thought numbers game thousand definitely going to get at least 10 i didn't get any i got two responses saying what i've got this amazing product can i stock it you're basically that yeah and uh and no there was no traction and and all that sort of stuff and so to start with you kind of messaging people and things like that and then it's just one foot in front of the other isn't it you think well i need to do this and then okay well that leads to that and it's like a domino effect so when you do one thing then it's obvious what the next step is but um you just got to keep going where did the idea and the name 47 skin come from and where did you sort of formulate what it was going to look like or what it was going to be so that all already happened by this point so i when i kind of you got got the products the context of the products 47 skin because the patented bit of the formula silver chitoderm.

22:30The atomic number of silver is 47. So 47 skin. I've always been a big believer in saying what it does. You don't need to add another complexity. So putting something that doesn't say what it does on the tin I don't think makes any sense. And I like the fact that it was just simple and clean and related to the IPF, to the formula basically. So you've got 47 skin which as you say fantastic name because it is exactly what it is and then how do you go from there to because we've just um been designing the logo for our brand where do you go to design the logo and the packaging and all that sort of stuff to the point where you've actually got a product to sell um so i i always wanted to keep it quite clinical because i thought the point of the formula it was always the formula right so so for me it wasn't about a kind of um overly designed um packaging or anything and I just worked with a designer I mean this is before AI and things like that but I just worked with a designer that I found on one of the websites that you can imagine uh went back and forth and just intuitively on gut what kind of felt right yeah and and it might be that it might be right or wrong but but the but for me what I've all you've got is your gut so we launched it the business with five grand we kind of and we've never taken any funding or anything like that so we've had to be profitable and had to do things um not on a shoestring but we've had to do things you You know, we can't just, yeah, bootstrapped.

23:51So when it came to the logo and things like that, I just intuitively kind of, it felt right, it felt wrong and followed my nose and always kept very blinkered in terms of looking. So I never looked at like, what are the other skincare brands doing? Don't look over the fence. Don't look over the fence, whatever. What's that, Trini said? Yeah, yeah. Don't look over the fence. It's true because it can confuse you. And also with, I felt so strongly at the time that for my specific problem, nothing, the industry hadn't presented me any solutions. So I wasn't really interested in what anyone else was doing.

24:18I was thinking, this is the solution. I just need to kind of get it out there. That moment when the first order came in, who was that from and what was that moment like? His name is Richard. And it's nice, actually, because I remember the moment. I was driving down Motorway, early door. It was four in the morning or something, and they saw it, ping. And I don't know if you guys, Shopify is. Yes, I've heard a lot about it. It's a lovely ka-ching noise. Yeah. I'm sort of thinking, what was that? And then we actually had our seventh birthday. however long ago, six months ago, and the brand team reached out to Richard and we had an interview with him.

24:54No way, incredible. Yeah, so I don't think he knew he was the first person at the time, obviously. But yes, that was the first order that we had. And what did you use in the early days in order to drive those first sales? Was it mostly sort of Instagram? Was it DTC? It was Instagram. We literally launched, to very, very start with, launched Instagram, uploaded a few photos. My sister helped me with the very first kind of images and things like that. They weren't, I mean, she's a very good photographer, but they weren't the best. I mean, I've got a photo at home where we bought one of those sort of Amazon shoot things where it's a black box.

25:31So it was just, we just started very small and then you start posting and you don't really get much response or whatever. But funnily enough, the thing that gave the business the break was somebody from Hong Hong Kong actually reached out and said, oh, I represent this influencer in Hong Kong and we'd like to be interested in stocking your products. And I thought, oh, yeah, pull the other one. We're not going to give you products because this is so early. And they placed an order. And then it actually, for the first few months or whatever, it was actually a lot bigger in Hong Kong than it was in the UK.

26:08And how did they know? Were they just interested in your marketing of it? They hadn't even tried the product yet? They hadn't tried the product. I think they just, well, they did, obviously, they tried the product and then went on to buy it. But I think they just become aware through Instagram. Isn't that incredible? Again, it's so important. The brand story is so strong. You are a great example for your brand. It comes from this place where you had a problem, you fixed it, and then you vouch for it, and then you put it into the market. And it's just so brilliant. And I assume now it must be such a wonderful feeling for you to know that you've now helped so many other people.

26:46Isn't that incredible? You must have so many stories from other people going, this is the thing that's worked for me, right? A hundred percent. And that's the big thing. So when we first launched it, as I said before, we launched it with five grand. I remember getting a thousand bottles that we brought to mum and dad's house. We used mum and dad's kitchen. We had a, it was actually a ketchup pump was what we found that was best to do that first thousand bottles. And I remember like we're doing all that and bless it. Dad has worked, you know, he's helped me so much with it. He was carrying them along.

27:13He went, I'll put these in the attic. So remember that time you thought you were going to start a skincare brand? Wow. Because a thousand just, I mean, it looks like so many. I mean, we've gone on to, we've sold over a million of those and we've helped over half a million people, which is what we're really, really pleased about. But when you start with that, you think we're never going to get, we're never going to sell these. And then of course you do. and then but the the helping people is what drives you so um we've had i mean we've been at it for eight years now and there's some really really difficult moments like after covid we we got our first unit which you know had no heating in it we go down and do the manufacturing and all this stuff but you're there in the depths of winter in yorkshire which is cold and um and and you you know and it just it's battle after battle from marketing it does and the thing that kept me going was going on the serum page, looking at the reviews.

28:01Great. And the fact we're still helping people. Because I think, yeah, if you're in it for certain gains or whatever, it takes so long to reach those. You've got to have something else that's keeping you going.

28:20Yeah, is there any particular misconceptions about the spots and blemishes thing that you can dispel for people? I think it fundamentally often is to do the hormones. So around hormonal changes is when you tend to see a higher correlation with spots and blemishes. So I think the idea that it's somehow the individual's fault I think is just not true. But also I think the big thing is it about impacting certain age groups when actually it impacts all age groups. So the thing that's really interesting is you started with five grand you've launched the business five grand you've never taken any investment into it no so it's unbelievable yeah was that a conscious decision have you ever been at one any point sat around the table because how many people are you employing now about 40 about four four wow and uh they all got t-shirts saying yeah you've kept the uniform has anyone sat down and gone right if we take some investment now, we can really sort of scale up.