Trinny Woodall's Advice That Changed Everything!

14:58Joel:And not not sorry, not not Ben and Jobs. OK, but just by itself.

15:04Ben:She said that and she's really cool.

15:06Joel:Well, that's great to hear.

15:08Ben:Yeah, because obviously we could cry. I know. I feel like I might try to cry.

15:11Joel:It's been so stressful. we've been so back and forth with it and it's ironically do it and own it

15:19Trinny Woodall:because the reality is we want to have fun we want it to be disruptive but the products have to speak for themselves the fun's going to take us so far and then it's really good to deliver

15:29Ben:I was the first person to do this kind of really engaging packaging refillable and everything and lots of people after that were doing that but it was for me I wanted to have amazing products but you'd want to pick them up and use them in the morning and you'd want to feel the joy. And I started with yellow because yellow to me is joyful. So you kind of think those two things go together. And it's just, yeah.

15:53Joel:And it does feel really exciting because it feels like there is a degree of, there's not much there in the men's skincare market. Okay, I'm going to ask you, let me interview you first.

16:05Ben:So first of all, this is a quick fire 20 questions. Oh God, here we go. Okay, when did you first come up with the idea?

16:12Joel:Maybe two years ago.

16:14Ben:What were you doing at the time and was it after 1am?

16:18Joel:That's true. No, I think I was probably in the morning. I went after we'd put him on this morning. And probably whilst we're having our makeup done.

16:25Ben:All right. And it's like, it would be nice to do this. And then it was a conversation between the two of you of what was available and what wasn't. Exactly.

16:32Trinny Woodall:I think it was a conversation between the two of us about where we were in our lives, where our boys were in our lives. So mine are 19 and 21 and Wild is 23. Another one on the way. And actually, the difference between my teenage sons and us, Joel's 10 years younger than me.

16:48Ben:So there's like, you've got three generations. Okay, so three generations, because this is quick fire, by the way.

16:53Trinny Woodall:Sorry.

16:54Ben:Okay, so that's that. Then did you feel that you could finance this yourself or you want to get funding? Funding. Funding? Okay, that's fine, because I can give you advice on that a bit.

17:03Trinny Woodall:You can fund us, that's fine.

17:04Ben:No, but I can help you. I can't believe she's signing already. So, all right. And do you see, do you go to sleep at night and do you ever sort of, manifest is a word that's really like, but do you sort of think about, you see this future and you see it on shelves. Do you ever do that with it? Or is it still in this embryonic stage?

17:26Trinny Woodall:It's embryonic in terms of, because we're still early stages. Physically where it's at.

17:29Joel:But what do you think inside your head? I think inside my head,

17:32Trinny Woodall:seeing people with our brand, our skincare brand on their shelves. in their cupboards, in their wash bags, I see going to the gym and seeing someone pulling out. Do you see it around the world? Yeah.

17:44Joel:And also that excitement I think I get when I go somewhere like Space NK, I go somewhere like Sephora or something and I just look around and I'm like, why is there nothing for me here? I'm not being gated for. I love coming in here. I think it's really fun. I love how bright it is. I love how, like it feels like there's something missing here. And why should I go to like the tiniest corner of dirty boots?

18:04Ben:Are you the two men to make the first really acceptable form of skincare for men. Are you the people to do that?

18:11Joel:There is some good brands out there. There really is some good brands. And what I would say is I think we are the first to face forward men in this country, certainly, who hopefully people will look at and be like, oh, I feel like they are someone who I can see myself in. and I'm not necessarily inspired by... But then I relate it. I relate it. Relatable. Okay, relatable.

18:40Ben:I think you are, I think the difference, it's a yin and yang in any, you've both been in partnerships in life, in work and everything. I was with Susanna for 10 years. I don't have one now because I'm the CEO, but I know that feeling of there's got to be this yin and yang. Susanna was the break, I was accelerator, she had boobs, I had none. You know, there were all these contrasts, but it made a bigger collection of people find it an appeal. All right, so that's that. I want to ask you, is it foreskin? by Joel and Ben, or is it Joel and Ben for Foreskin? We've always said the latter. But which do you prefer?

19:12Ben:Foreskin by Joel and Ben. Because ultimately, if you want to sell the brand... Down the line. Down the line.

19:19Joel:Foreskin is what you can remember. Someone comes and buys Foreskin. I think it's interesting that, for me, I have Trini London,

19:24Ben:and my name is... Not many other people have that name. I was thinking this in the way in. Yeah, so also, for me, if you look at Charlotte Tilbury, you know she sold her business incredibly one of the most successful sales ever I think like 1.3 or 1.6 billion I can't remember to um to um Pooj but she you know then signed on with them to stay on because the connection with her name was really important but what it gives you is momentum like you if you were two people in the back of a lab you wouldn't be able to have a chat show and be talking about a product range so it gives up really good momentum at the beginning which I think so helps it.

20:02Ben:And then it gets to a stage where it becomes that it's not your name. So Trini London, there are some people who don't know there's a Trini behind Trini London. So that to me shows we've got to a stage that, you know, we have 1.8 million customers around the world. So the person in Singapore might not know that Trini London is a person. And that's great. Imagine how excited they would be

20:22Trinny Woodall:when they found out. No, I think I'm sorry.

20:24Ben:But it's sort of, so there you have to think. No, it's a really great point. So that's what you just have to think about. I mean, I must have started with 20. I did. Yeah, I did. I had Face Queen. I had Micro Makeover, Mini Makeover. Then I did some consumer trials. And I thought, oh, fuck, consumer trials. They don't, you know, people know only what you tell them. So it's really challenging. And then in the end, somebody said to me, why the fuck aren't using your name? You know, and it was that.

20:48Trinny Woodall:But you found a way to do it that, as you say, doesn't restrict.

20:51Ben:Yeah, but I didn't have as good a name as Fourskir. That's the thing, OK? And I wasn't going to say Lavia. because it just doesn't have the same ring to it. I don't know. Lavia London does sound really good.

21:03Joel:Lavia London. Lavia London is fabulous. You see, for Lila, I like took,

21:06Ben:I thought Lila might one day, my daughter might one day want to do her own thing. So I actually got LilaLondon.com just because that's great, you know, thing. That's great. Okay, going back to, going back to, so. I love how you flipped this, by the way. Yeah, that's cool. That's cool. I am Unilever Ventures. One of the investors, they invest in me, but you know, they invest in Newbrand. So I'm Unilever Ventures and I'm thinking, why would I invest in you? Because you do need funding. Because you will, you know, if you need to accelerate development and pay for stock and build the URL and you're going to have a website, how are you going to do distribution?

21:39Ben:Are you going to do DTC? To start off that way, right? Okay, so you're doing DTC. Yeah, start off direct to consumer, but... You need a budget for Meta. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you need a CPA that's civilized. So I'm just taking you down the technical road for a second of things to think about. So when you get to the PNL. So you have to think... The profit and loss bit, yeah. But you have to think, how much will it cost you to acquire your customer? And there's something really interesting in Meta. So Meta's algorithm has changed a bit and it used to be really inexpensive to get a customer. And it's broken down in three ways.

22:11Ben:It used to be you would have an ad called a conversion ad, which means you're going to just talk about the product and its ingredients and what it does. It's something where you want the person to click and buy. Then you have above that, you have traffic and then you have awareness. So if you have traffic, it's just the noise of what you stand for. It's that general like foreskin, guys, hi, this is us. It's that kind of let me introduce you. And then it's consideration, which is you're going to deliver in something like there's somebody well-known wearing it and there's a little quote. And that's probably going to be the same ad that will go to the same person.

22:41Ben:So in the meta algorithm, they'll get all three of these ads. And it's the journey to discovery because 10 years ago, you would look in a magazine, you would hear something on a radio show. And now all through your phone, you could have those three or four points of contact plus a friend telling you, and then you convert. So the method by which we choose now has changed. So you need to think what's the budget for that. And depending on how much organic buzz and noise you create, the CPA, the cost per acquisition of customer, goes down. So those people who have no other awareness of brand and noise, it costs them more probably to get a customer.

23:17Ben:Yeah. One other thing you have to consider is the price point. If something is really inexpensive and that's all you're selling, your basket size can only be a certain amount. So if it costs you£50 to get a customer, but your product is£36, if they buy that three times a year, you've made money because you're at 90, 118 or whatever it is. But if they only buy it once, it's cost you more than you're getting back. So you can start with just noise and then do a little bit of meta. And I started just with organic. It's like when you do crowdfunding, because another thing you could consider is would you crowdfund it?

23:57Ben:You know, if you go to investors, investors want a percentage of your business. They're going to put a valuation on your business. And so let's say they said the valuation now is based upon how well you're known, how big your community is, the products you're going to make, the pipeline, where the market is today and different factors. And they'll put a valuation on it. So you might think, OK, we need X amount to start the business. Let's say it's two million, start the business. So if you want to keep 50 percent, then is the company already worth four million before you've sold anything? So those are like things to think about.

24:30Ben:Otherwise, you can bootstrap. So I bootstrapped. So I had stopped filming and I was, you know, living in a house where I had spent years trying to buy this house, but I had a very big mortgage. And I had to let go of the concept that I would live in that house until I died, because I wanted to do the business. And so I rented the house out and then I had to sell the house because I couldn't afford to. And I didn't want debt when I started the business. So the first two years, I didn't fundraise. I bootstrapped. And then I fundraised. You know, so I think there's what's that path for you.

25:03Trinny Woodall:Did you do it the right way around? Do you regret any of their decisions or i mean i'll tell you the things you do differently yeah i had started an online

25:10Ben:business in 99 called ready to and it was a portal destination for women this is before there was e-com i've always loved online and i raised seven million pounds in six weeks because it was a boom it was everyone was you know it was last minute dot com's everything it was like a boom i was one of the few women in the uk with susanna we were doing a dot com business I hired people in, I hired experts in, I had cash in the bank. And I made so many mistakes that I learned from that. So when I went to do Trinity London, I thought, I will not employ really quickly people who think they know the direction of the business, because I have to be the heartbeat of the business and know the direction until I get to a certain revenue point.

25:51Ben:So, you know, I was already doing 11 million a year. By the time I then thought, now let me get in a really good CMO and things because there were things I had to learn myself. If this is going to be the main thing you do in your life, you need to know when you get bigger that I know how ops works. I might not know the detail of ops. I know how tech works. I know how personalization works. I know how site replatforming, which I talked about this morning for two hours, works generally. But you need to know little bits of these. I do think, or you split between the two of you, whatever your brains both are.

26:23Ben:If one of you is more creative and one of you likes a spreadsheet more maybe both you don't like a spreadsheet and you need somebody good with finance but you do i think to start a business seriously to get investments you can't just be the face of it you need to live and breathe and do it and it will help you so much if you do these things a bit yourself to begin with because then when you get the funding you really spend it carefully you think who's the most important hire i first need to make you know what is that and who's the second most important hire and maybe it is ops and you know the whole distribution and how you do that because that's challenging you know i love the control of being mainly dc i'm 80 dc so if i want to make change in the business or i want to introduce something else or do something else i can do it because it's you know and also we know all our customer you know i don't it's not hidden behind the doors of wholesale so these are all other things just to think about

27:22Trinny Woodall:well the knowing the customer is the thing that i mean the survey is all part about us trying to understand exactly who will be our customer for uh for skin and um and how and where we're going to sell it and how we're going to attract them how do you think trini from your experience and what you managed to do because you got people to come to your house to try the formulation of some of the products. I did.

27:45Ben:I had 500 women come into my bathroom too. Because when I was trying to work out how can I create an algorithm that I do makeup that suits women for their skin, hair and eye, I had to create this thing of, you know, the mix. So if I look at you, you've got a warm brown eye, you've got a light tan skin and you've got a brown hair with no warmth in it. So you are neutral. So you can wear the shade brown. If you wear a pale gray, it can wash you out. If you wear a sort of navy, it can be nice, but also teal can be really good. Whereas you're cooler, you are cool. Even though you have a hazel eye, you've got very cool hair and you've got a pink undertone in your skin.

28:20Ben:So you're cool toned. So you would suit different makeup.

28:23Joel:Yeah.

28:24Ben:So I had 500 women in my bathroom to work out on this chart, which I did manually, and then we made it into coding, of how I could then give somebody, this is your makeup for you. The perfect formulation of products. Yeah. So I think the survey from people really helps you to understand your customer and what they want.

28:42Trinny Woodall:We want them to feel, and the thing is we want them to feel connected. What's been really fascinating, I think there's something really interesting hearing you talk about how engaged your community has become. There is something about you talking to your audience that has really engaged them.

28:57Ben:What I did when I worked out what I'd make in the first year, and this is quite a good thing because it's really people when they do that. But you need to think based on something. So I said to myself, of all the people who followed me, and then 163 ,000 people followed me, okay, I said 3 % of the people who follow me will buy. It was really conservative. But I then took all the people. And then I also did how much I would grow in my social media following and the history that I'd had to show where 8 million people watched it. So there was a legacy of that, but I diluted that legacy. So I just took those individual pockets.

29:33Ben:and so this is the most important thing you will have to prove to your investor. So you're going to have, they're going to have to say, where are you going to get the people who are going to buy and where are they coming from? And if you can say, actually, this is how I make the sum. So I have on my Instagram this, you have on your Instagram this. I do this TV show, radio show, live shows. I get this. I have this. So there's that. Then we have this thing together and that gets that. So let's say only 5 % of all those people buy one thing. It comes to this figure and you'll be surprised how good that figure is.

30:03Ben:But that will give you something which you can argue it. You can say that is like not saying 20 % of people do something which is unrealistic.

30:12Trinny Woodall:So the thing that we want to understand, I think I'm right going to say this, Joel, is when we go to speak to investors, we want to be able to present a case that has de-risked the investment for them by turning around and saying exactly what you're saying. So we feel like... You'll never de-risk, but what you'll do is you'll make them think it's possible.

30:29Ben:So there's a little different because it's always a risk. they know they'll invest in 20 things and two will do really well. And five will wipe their nose and the others will be a write-off. But they'd be willing to take that chance. They're going to, because they're going to also, what you have to remember, and this is just an important thing to remember when you go to investors, is depending on the day, they might bring something into the room. And I had to really learn this and give you a suggestion of something. You might just think that is so fucking wacky. Okay. And so what you have to figure out is who else have they seen today who's brought an idea in the room that they're just bringing into your meeting?

31:02Ben:How committed am I to that idea? And do I really believe in my gut, and therefore I have to defend it? And what should I walk away with and think, actually, that's really interesting. And should I bring it on board? So I had to do that. I did that with 250 people, by the way. All right. So I had to really dissect it. And each time I learned, and sometimes I went away thinking, oh, my God, so depressing. But I then had to realize, you know, when somebody said to me, I love your idea, but, you know, a woman past 35 is never going to understand how to go online and buy makeup it's for uh it's for a gen x and i was like it's not no yeah um the hole in the market is the gap in the market is this woman and they were like no it's it should you should do it for teenagers and i walked away from that feeling reinforced in my belief that i knew something more than them yeah but then other times i'd walk away and they'd say something really wise and i'd say okay let me add that in and then when i went back to the next investor i brought that into the conversation i in fact saw 50 people I wrote to you on 50, but I got one investment, two investments.

32:00Ben:You got two great investments as well. I got two great investments, yeah.

32:03Trinny Woodall:But a lot of no's.

32:05Ben:Lots of no's. And also it's like an actor. You know, you go in and you sort of get that rejection of the, and you think I was great in that role or, you know, that audition I was great when you've gone out for TV shows. And it's just like, it's fine. It just wasn't for them. It doesn't mean my idea isn't brilliant.

32:20Joel:Do you look back, do you look where you are with your brand, where you've come from and sort of pat yourself on the back and go like, this is amazing what we've achieved or are you kind of a person who constantly go next on the end bigger bigger bigger I mean it's like I think it's really challenging

32:35Ben:to be an entrepreneur and have that I'll have those moments I started doing a gratitude list since the new year just because I just feel it's important to kind of do it so when I do that list I do write things down around and I try to have that moment of thinking I'm really grateful for what I have today. And if I had a tough day at work and I, the people who have come into the business have really worked their ass off, I'll go home and I'll just go, I'm so grateful these people in the business, you know, who are really vested in the business and want the best of the business. And that we've got to a stage where we attract people like that, you know, so you have a mixture, but you never stop thinking about what you, you know, what you got right now, I'm just worrying.

33:14Ben:And, you know, at the weekend, I didn't sleep over some things I was thinking about, You know, that's the world of choosing to do this business.

33:22Trinny Woodall:Yeah. Would you say that there is a secret to creating products that people won't just buy once?

33:31Ben:Yes. I've made products that are really unique. So I have a product called The Elevator and it sells every 20 seconds around the world. It's a neck cream, but it's quite unique and it uses an ingredient that isn't in anything else. And it has amazing results, which are clinical trials that we spend months doing. So it's very special. And I know that women buy it again and again. So it's a product that you start with. And it's you ultimately then seeing the future of your business through a number of products that do that for you. And the other products are great products, but maybe they buy them once a year or they buy them once.

34:07Ben:You know, we have an average of a 40 % retention on same products and some have a 58 % retention, depending on the product, which are quite high in the industry. But if you have a product somebody only buys once, going back to that Facebook meta, acquiring the customer, it's challenging because you will never, you might grow in revenue. Like you might have everybody buying it, but if they don't buy it again, you haven't built a business. So it is super, super important that it is something that people will want to buy again. And so how you then build out that product, you know, it's how is it unique?

34:42Ben:So the way you're describing your product and the way you're saying I had to mix these three things together to get that, you're already thinking of something which doesn't sit there uniquely. And so that's a brilliant tick. then it's the price point and having the price point at the price of what you want the ingredients in it to be so you don't compromise on what you want it to be so some people might in your audience say i'd never spend more than 22 pounds for this product but they've never had a product perhaps as good as yours so i might have people who bought a 20 pound product before for a neck cream but it didn't do anything and they never bought it again and they invested more in ours but it really worked So you kind of have to show that.

35:23Ben:So you've got to decide how mass or premium or mastige do I want this to be? And that's a tough thing to decide. But I think you have to go with who you feel that person is out there already and also what you want the product to be. And they have to kind of meet in the middle. because you can't, you know, otherwise it's square peg for that round hole. Susanna and I did a range of clothing for Littlewoods years ago and I love clothes and I buy high and low, but I love beautifully cut clothes and we did a great, great, the people who worked on range, but it was clothing I wore a bit, but not much.

35:55Ben:With skincare, I knew I would never use anything else again in my life. I'd never promote somebody else's products or have some bag of things that I'd say, by the way, this today as well, because it's like I live and breathe them. I want to put them on my skin every day. So you have to do that. If you don't feel that, you shouldn't be making it. You really have to feel this is the thing I've discovered that I want. And because if you start with the passion of how much you want it, you're going to be the face of the brand. You're going to talk about why you love it. And people go, I get it. I want it.

36:25Ben:You know, so that's so important.

36:27Joel:Is there anyone who's in the skincare industry who you look at the way that they've done it and think they've done it really well and they've got it right? I look at different brands for different things, but generally I don't look over the fence and I tell my team to not look over the fence.

36:45Ben:Because I think that people can be distracted by what other people are doing. And you can look at best practice, like sometimes I'll look at navigation on a website and think that's a great navigation. Those are really good things. But if you obsess and you don't stay in your lane, you get distracted and you dilute what you're doing. And if you believe in the products you want to make, don't get distracted. You know, really focus on what you know you want to create. And I find that a best practice for me.

37:13Trinny Woodall:Yeah, I like that phrase. I look over the fence. We have a patron for people that are following the community and following the podcast. And they can get all sorts of extra content and bits and pieces. And we put a few things on there for them. And they've got a few questions for you. If we can share some of those. Absolutely, yeah. Via our Instagram page, at The Businessmen Pod. The number one question that our listeners and viewers wanted to ask you is this. If someone can only afford three skincare products, what should they invest in?

37:40Ben:You know what I'd say universally? Everyone thinks it should be a moisturizer. And I think it should be an exfoliant. Because I think so many people come up to you and say, my skin's dry. And I go, how much dead skin cells have you got on your skin? Because if you're not washing, it's like we have the table in front of us. It's not really a real wood table. but if it was, maybe it is, that it would have dust on it and you would never put the polish on unless you took the dust off. So the exfoliant is the dust remover and it could be a BHA, AHA or PHA depending on your skin type but that then allows a product to really go in deep.

38:13Ben:So I think the first thing to me is an SPF because I believe if you wore an SPF 50 every day half the ingredients in skincare you would not use so much because your skin would be so protected but an exfoliant is really up there.

38:27Trinny Woodall:so an SPF

38:28Ben:an exfoliant

38:30Trinny Woodall:and I would say something

38:32Ben:I would probably say a vitamin C because I just believe that you know you're repairing damage and you're giving your skin a glow and you're making it full of life and generally the complexity of vitamin C if it's not with a retinol which I think is shit to go together but if a vitamin C is also with some algae and other things you've got a great thing that you put on and you feel this instant feeling but also it's helping to repair sun damage and dealing with melanocytes which your age spots you might get and maybe breaking them down yeah that's great okay i love it uh

39:01Trinny Woodall:mel has asked this question um although you've sort of touched on this already what are the skincare ingredients you think anyone over 30 should be using well i think anyone is going to

39:14Ben:lose collagen one percent a year and when they get to their sort of 50s and this applies to men and women because women have menopause but men have andropause so that is a loss in hormone and a loss hormone does diminish things that is like the number one thing that for a man is making him feel i've lost my oomph and i have to have something exterior to get it back and it could just be they go and have their testosterone checked it's like the simplest thing to do but going back to your point i would say that um you're losing collagen so that whole stimulation of your skin is really important and i would i'm oddly going to say microneedling because i think I love microneedling and lots of people who come from a sort of clinic background, very protective of the clinic.

39:57Ben:It should be done in the clinic. But you can do a 0.3, a 0.5. And it does two things. It makes micro channels in your skin so products go deeper. And it also can attack collagen. And the only way when you're post-30 that you get collagen back is if you gently attack your skin and then it will actually grow collagen. Otherwise, your collagen is depleting and you need to do things that support collagen, like retinols and peptides.

40:22Trinny Woodall:Love it. Mark has said, how do you balance realism with wanting to look your best?

40:28Ben:I think men have had this too, because if I think of Clinique for men, Clinique always would use an egg and not use men. But we have grown up in a world where things have been airbrushed for us to believe in the aspiration of beauty. And I think the challenge for me when I started, my brand was to use only real women and not air touch photographs unless they drop some makeup or something like that. Because I thought there's something where it's so challenging to think I could never look like that. So you think I'll never try. But equally, somebody has grown up with an unrealistic expectation of where something will get them.

41:02Ben:So you kind of have to meet somewhere in the middle between aspiration and realism. so you want to be inspiring but you want to not fake what it's going to do you know so we're

41:14Joel:obviously right at the start of this entire process we've got so many milestones to come what's the big bit of advice you would give us at the place we are now what should we take away

41:25Ben:from this these are weird things because then they're like it's not i've given you lots of thoughts on beauty but i would say one thing i needed to know when i was sort of really passionate about the idea, but nobody was buying into it, is somebody said to me, you never know what's behind the closed door. Because otherwise, you can narrow that sense of what the possibility is to something where it's not going to succeed. And by never knowing what's behind the closed door, you just keep it open a little bit more. Because you think, well, I don't know. And I didn't know that you was going to call up and say, we think you're great, we want to invest.

41:56Ben:I didn't know that, you know, so you never know. And then my ex-husband, who's no longer with us, but he always said to me 99 % of everything you worry about never happens so when you're thinking I put my life into this I've mortgaged my home to do this all these things you're thinking oh my god all those things you worry about when you start a business of things go wrong the consequences on you know

42:16Trinny Woodall:the bets you've laid to do it because I did lay big bets you know um they generally 99 % of them don't happen yeah that's really reassuring by the way I've got quite a lot of worries There are quite a lot of worries.

42:29Joel:The worries are building up as we speak.

42:31Ben:No, the thing is I feel you're having great fun with it. Now we're just laying down. No, no, no. Do you know what, Trini?

42:37Trinny Woodall:Trust us. Coming in, your enthusiasm, your passion for it is so infectious. We know how busy you are, but it's been an absolute joy to have you come and join us on the business. I've loved chatting to you so much. Thank you for joining us.

42:49Ben:And if you ever want advice, call me. What about investment, Trini? If we ever want investment. I think I need to see your deck first.

42:57Trinny Woodall:Okay, I love that. You've got a deck chair at some, haven't you? I've got some on there. He's got some deck chairs at home, but a deck would be good too. You've been amazing, Trini. Thank you so much. Trini's going to be on the Patreon as well, answering a couple more questions specifically. So do sign up to the Patreon for more of this extraordinary advice and insight and wisdom from the brilliant Trini.

43:20Joel:The Businessmen, sponsored by BT Business. Wasn't that incredible?

43:24Trinny Woodall:I just, what is so inspiring about Trini is just how much enthusiasm and passion she has for what she does.

43:33Joel:And knowledge. And I think this is what I'm really enjoying about talking to our guests. And I think what sort of influenced me to go and then do this course is that I just really love the fact that like they have so much passion and knowledge for it. And I'm hoping that I will gain that knowledge or at least a little bit of it.

43:51Trinny Woodall:I love the phrase that she used, don't look over the fence.

43:54Joel:Great.

43:55Trinny Woodall:You know, really, really key part of you. Just stay focused on what you're doing. Don't worry massively about what your competitors are doing. You just want to create the best thing you possibly can for the community you're trying to serve.

44:05Joel:And when she says something like, I think you're onto something, I think this is going to be really great. It just gives us that little bit of help. Yeah, a little bit of boost. A bit of sunshine in our lives. Well, that's all we have time for this week. Remember to subscribe on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks so much for listening and watching. We'll see you next week. Thanks guys!