YOU Get To Choose Our Brands Future!

0:00Susan Galbraith was a housewife in Mayfield, Kentucky. But after a murder in town, Susan took it upon herself to find witnesses who could point to a killer. She thought she was going to be a hero. But that's not what happened. The lies, the lot of lies. What were Susan's real motives? She wasn't in it to help them find the killer. Why then did the cops take her seriously? It was known that she was getting funds from them. Susan's son is wrestling with his mother's legacy to this day. I mean, my mom was, I used the word diabolical. And perhaps the biggest question of all is, did she help convict an innocent man?

0:37I do feel like that they got the wrong people. From Sony Music Entertainment and Message Heard, this is My Mother's Lies, available now on The Binge. Search for it wherever you get your podcasts to start listening today. Subscribers to The Binge can listen to all episodes all at once, ad-free. I want to tell you guys about a podcast that is near and dear to my heart, and I cannot believe it already came out a year ago. And you can all go listen to it ad-free by subscribing to the Binge Podcast channel. What podcast, Corinne? Tell us. Oh, it's called Blink Jake Handel's Story. I created it about a man named Jake, who I met, who is the only survivor of a terminal brain illness brought on by heroin use.

1:25But there is a lot of mystery and medical malpractice and true crime elements that are very shocking and surprising and even some supernatural elements. So this is definitely an amazing story. It's very unique. And you did such an incredible job telling the story and sharing it with the world. So if you have not listened to it yet, my goodness, where have you been? Because Blink is so freaking good. Thank you. Search for Blink wherever you listen. And subscribers to The Binge will get the entire season ad free. Plus, you'll get exclusive access to the over 60 other true crime stories on The Binge podcast channel.

2:00Hit subscribe on Apple Podcasts or head to getthebinge.com. All I think about is adverts, right? I'm thinking pictures. So like when it's available in barbershops, we are in the barbershop quartet outfit doing our songs. Like, ba-ba-do-da-do-da-do-da-ba-do-da-ba-do-da-do-da-do-da-do. And then they stop us and they go, no, it's available in barbershops. Oh. You don't need our barbershop. Oh, right. I thought you meant in a barbershop. Poor Skin by Joel and Ben. In all good barbershops. Exactly. Great. Done. I'm buying them. Welcome back to The Businessmen. Welcome back, everybody. I hope you're having a lovely time.

2:39They will be now they're listening to The Businessmen. Oh, yeah. Because they're excited about the next part of the adventure. We are indeed. We are starting our own skincare brand and been getting some very solid advice from some very solid guests. Am I right, Ben Shepard? Solid, exciting and worrying advice along the way. It's a very tricky little thing to navigate. To catch up with everything so far, listen wherever you get your podcasts and remember to obviously subscribe. It's on YouTube as well. It is on the YouTube and this is a great episode to look at the YouTube. I think so, very much so, because there's a lot of visual stuff.

3:14Visual stimulation as ever. If you've missed it, go back and check it out. Please do. And also, visually, you have to look at what Ben Shepard looks like at the moment. He looks absolutely fantastic. This man is 51 years of age. 51. Do you want to say it again? 51. Clear skin, beautiful man. If only his eyes didn't let him down. Then he would be 10 out of 10. This is why we are launching a skincare brand. Ben, I wasn't even talking about literally. I was talking about your eyesight. I know. Oh, I see. Because you've got to wear glasses. I have to wear glasses. I wouldn't be as mean as to be like, if only you're literally your eyes.

3:54I think you've got grey eyes. Thanks, man. And luckily you've got glasses in order to cover up. So you can't see them. You have bad eyes. That's why I'm wearing them. You look fantastic. Also, because you're doing a marathon very soon, something that happened to me when I was doing the marathon, it's like you suddenly become so lean. Yeah, there's a leanness. Because you are running an insane amount of mileage every week. Yeah. All you have to do is run 80 kilometres a week and you look fantastic. You have cheekbones. It's not much. It's mad. You look fantastic. At the same time, though, there is an exciting production about to drop in the Dummett household.

4:30How are we? How is everybody? Where are we? Hannah is very pregnant. How's Wild Coping with the imminent arrival of another baby? So cute. I FaceTimed you yesterday and you were practising with baby? Yeah. He's got this baby that he loves, this little baby doll that he calls, he calls his little just oh I almost said what gender it was which would be fine I mean I've told everyone else it's a conker yes it's a conker it is a conker I've done it's he keeps on telling everyone that gender is the baby but no one believes in that because they don't they think oh he doesn't know it's so cute he's conker still in the running for conker is very much the baby name yeah yeah so like that is when you go to wild like what's what name do you want to call the new baby Conquer Conquer peace daddy He's in his shouting phase right now He should be doing my PR He loves you So much Great taste I've told you that Maybe he's not seen you For like three weeks He's like Suddenly out of nowhere Just before I put him to bed He'll be like Daddy What is Ben Shepard doing?

5:34I'm like What is going on? Why are you thinking about this?

5:40It's so cute Daddy where's Ben Shepard? Where's Daddy? Where's Ben Shepard? So look, we have spoken to some amazing people on The Businessman. Deborah Meadon, Trini Woodall, Caroline Hirons, of course. Had some amazing advice, some amazing thoughts. Where are we with the brand right now, Joel? So we've obviously got the name. We all know that. Thanks to our wonderful community. Wonderful community there on Patreon. And we now have to decide on the logo. We've had Ella in before for a great episode where we sort of started to hone down our different ideas for the brand. So later on, we're going to be talking to Ella, who's going to bring our sort of revamped designs to the table for the two final versions that we will then give to our community in order to decide whether it's A or B.

6:33And that is the brand and that is the logo that we will be using. So I'm really excited to see the new versions of that. A bit nervous as well, because our community will choose, of course, but one of these logos that she's designed will become the Full Skin by Joel and Ben logo forever and a day. That feels absolutely mad. We've got loads going on business-wise now, which is frustrating, because I'm literally about to go away and have a baby. So it's just got exciting, just as I'm not allowed to be excited by it. Let's not discuss the fact that the business is more exciting than about what's happened at home.

7:05Two babies are being born. One point. One point. And so we've also started to sort of pitch for investment. Yeah. So we need to start planning the products, the product development that we're going to be doing. But to understand how we get to where the product development's going to be, we are getting the deck together because we need to get some initial investment, a small amount of investment just to do some R &D, getting a lean mean team together. R &D means Reginald and David. Reginald and David. We need to get some Reginald and David together. Research and development. Research and development.

7:43And so, yeah, we just, so you need to do this all in the right order in order to make sure it all works. So obviously you need money before you can get a manufacturer on board and be able to pay the people who sort of help us develop these wonderful products. But it will be, here's the interesting thing is, once we will have the logo and all that and everyone will get to choose that, the initial investment we get, which will only be a small amount of money, will be for an initial drop. I think that's what the kids call it, an initial drop. So just a small number of foreskin products that we will then reach out to everybody to get their hands on and then to get the feedback and tell us all about it.

8:21And we'll see how that goes. And then from there, we will hopefully go for the big money to help create a product range that will become retail, D2C, direct to consumer, however it goes. Oh my God, it's exciting. We've been looking at packaging as well, haven't we? Lots of packaging. I mean, inundated, we keep sending pictures of... It's really odd. You go into any sort of pharmacy or skincare shop and all I'm doing is taking pictures. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It feels a little bit incriminating. Yeah, it does feel creepy. Big news. My mum's dry cleaner has offered to invest in the business. Thank God.

8:58Yeah, he dropped off some shirts the other day and he said, Joe, I understand Ben's launching a skincare business. I'd love to talk to him about investment. I love this. This is amazing. I absolutely love this. I could do with actually getting my dry cleaning done. So this is worth both ways. Yeah, there's like a contra deal, isn't there? Yes. We offer him a bit of skincare, a bit of our foreskin, and he gives us some dry cleaning. I love that. I love that. We just have to get it delivered from Thayden Boys in Essex. That's miles away. It'd be worth it. It'd be worth it. It'd be worth it for the investment.

9:27That's very exciting. Also, my dad's barber keeps asking for when are we releasing our products because he wants to sell it in their shop. In the shop. How amazing. I do think genuinely barbershops is a great place to start. Totally agree. One of those designs that Ella's come up with feels quite barbering. Yeah, that's true. Your first design for your thing, I think I'm really interested to see how she's developed it. But that feels like the sort of thing that would be in a barbershop. Again, I'm thinking about adverts. All I think about is adverts, right? Just thinking pictures. So like when it's available in barbershops, we are in the barbershop quartet outfit doing our songs.

10:05And then they stop us and they go, no, it's available in barbershops. You don't need our barbershop. Oh, right. I thought you meant in a barbershop. Poor Skin by Joel and Ben in all good barbershops. Exactly. Great. Done. I'm buying that. You're in it. Also, there was a brilliant clip on the Table Manners podcast. I know you and Hannah have done Table Manners. Yes. They've never invited me. It's very good. It's very good. Jesse Ware, fantastic. We heard this brilliant clip, the brilliant Brian Cranston, who I've interviewed on a number of occasions, and he's one of the most charming people in the world, talking about a business that he launched, his Mescal business, essentially because he missed his best mate from Breaking Bad.

10:49And it did make me wonder, are we just launching a business so we can spend more time together? I think that is almost certain. From my side, that is the case. Let's have a listen to the clip. When women miss each other, you make a point to see each other. You bond and talk. Men feel that we have to have some kind of reason to me. Reason. Like playing football or going to see a football match. Are we going to play golf? What are we doing? Oh, let's start a business together. That'll give us reason to see. That was a good idea. Yeah. It's crazy when you think about it, but that is truly why we started Dos Hombres.

11:31There's a lot to be said for launching a business to spend more time with your mates. And you know what? There's a lot to be said as well. We talked about this before, about at some point sort of having some sort of affiliation, moving in together, having some sort of affiliation with like maybe a men's mental health charity or something like that. and that's essentially, you know, I mean, we jest, but a reason for men to get together and chat is so important and you know what? If a business is the way to do that, then let it be. Do it. Whatever that business might be, whether it might be mezcal or foreskin.

12:10Yep. Why wouldn't you want to spend time with your mates? It's absolutely delicious. It's my mezcal, Brian. Let's get Brian on the podcast. Brian, come on the podcast. I'm sure he's not busy. Shall we see what Ella has in store for our logo? Yes, please. Here comes the helicopter.

12:30This is exciting because Ella is back with us. Yes. Hello, Ella. Lovely to see you. Logo, Ella. Hello. I'm back. Thank you so much for joining us, Ella. It's an absolute pleasure. I know you're very busy, so I really appreciate you coming back in and helping us get closer to our wonderful logo.

12:56Welcome to Crime Scene, the new weekly show from The Binge, where we tell you the stories behind the world's most unforgettable crimes. I'm Jonathan Hirsch. You may know me as the host of My Fugitive Dad or Dear Franklin Jones. Watching you. I'm an executive producer of The Binge, the True Crime Podcast Network, where we bring you a new series on the first of every month. For Crime Scene, I'm joined by my producer and co-host, Cooper Mall, the reporter and voice behind Fatal Beauty and the crimes of Margot Freshwater. We know there are a lot of true crime podcasts out there. I think what makes Crime Scene different is that Cooper and I have boots on the ground.

13:34We're investigative storytellers. And so many of the stories that come across our desk, we haven't been able to share with you until now. So if you're one of the millions of people who have flocked to the binge for riveting storytelling, deeply investigated true crime series, think of this as all the things that you love about those shows in a single episode. Join us every week in the Crime Scene office wherever you listen to or watch your shows. This is Crime Scene, available now.

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15:10Before we get into this, Ella, can you remind us where we last left you? Yes, sure. So, Ben, your logo was this lovely sans serif font. It was condensed and we decided that we were going to do by Joel and Ben rather than Joel and Ben for skin. And it was kind of this very premium, sophisticated, elegant style, as you can see through your packaging. Much like Ben himself. decided oh no that was just my interpretation of ben no i think it's very much the world's interpretation of you though yes true and then joel's was a little bit more fun and playful i'm edgy man i'm so edgy barbershop look crafty yeah it does feel like sort of craft beer vibe fun bright so these were the initial um designs for our logos that you came up with ella and then And then we refined the brief for you, didn't we?

16:09What did we ask you to do? So Ben's one, we wanted to make it feel a little bit more. So we've got super premium right now, but we wanted to make it feel a little bit more vibrant and fun, which was to the brief. And then Joel's one was a little bit too wacky. Too fun. It was way too fun. He's fun, but he's not that fun. No, no, no, no. Not that fun. I should at this point point out, if you're listening to this, it's not going to be quite as exciting as looking at it on YouTube. So we'd advise everybody to sort of go and have a look. We will obviously put this on our socials. We're trying to explain it to you.

16:45Okay, so we were trying, it was a bit, Joel, sorry I interrupted you, was a bit too much. I was trying to refine the fun on that. Yes, and that kind of handwritten script. I think we needed to make it a little bit more like Ben's. So I have now refined those. Ella, just honestly, from the bottom of my heart, I think it's the first time that anyone in about sort of seven to eight years has listened to me. That's very worrying. The interesting thing I think in this is Ella is you're far too young to have children, but essentially this is what having kids is like. Yes. You're trying to interpret the madness that comes out of their mouths, but you've done it beautifully till now.

17:21Now we're about to reveal the new and improved logos. These two logos, Joel, are the ones that we're going to put to the community and our community that are following Forskin in this journey with us and the businessmen are going to get to vote on the one that eventually becomes our brand logo. Oh, my God. That's a heavy responsibility. We're leaving it in the hands and feet of our community. Should we turn both round at the same time? I think that's going to be logo overload. Okay. We can't go hard on logo. Logolode. Overlogolode. You do yours first, Ben. Okay, so we're ready for this. So this is the final design for the interpretation that you made through my briefing.

18:00And also, we should point out, we haven't necessarily nailed down the colour palette yet. No, we haven't. I think we are getting closer to it. But this is more about, am I right, Ella, is saying? It's just a logo. This is more about the design. Yes. And it isn't necessarily the final colour palette. Yeah, exactly. It's just the logo itself. So just focus on the actual logo. Well, I'm excited about this because it's on the back of this card. So I'm going to show you, Joel. but I think you need to strap in because the more I look at it, the more I love it. Are you ready? Here we go. This is the final design for Joel and Ben for skin from Ella Copter Studios.

18:44I love it. I really, I think the more I look at it, the more I love it. So Ella, just explain a little bit about what you've done and how you've done it. Sure. So first thing first was to improve your sans-serif font. We learned what that meant last time, which is when the font hasn't got too many flourishes around it and lines. So that tends to feel much more high performance. So I've just chosen, there's thousands and gazillions of fonts to choose from. So we just wanted to refine and make sure that we had the best one. I've also very carefully curved the edge of the letters just to make it feel a little bit more approachable because otherwise it feels quite harsh Quite stark, yeah Yes, so if you look super closely there is a little curve on there I love it, I like that We've also added a rectangle around skin so that this really focuses on the word skin itself and you can change that per different product I really love it I really love it.

19:46I also love the colours that you have picked. I know it's not about the palette. But this palette, I think, has got something. I think this is a wonderful palette. I know we've thrown this at you over Easter, Ella, colours. We kept taking pictures of products in shops and just sending them to Ella going, what about this? Just random colours. I like the clean vibe and the very fresh feel of the green and actually that pale blue as well. And even the yellow. I mean, I'm a fan of all of them. I'm a fan of all of them. I really think it's great. It feels like noticeable to me. Yes. Not boring. Yet it also feels medical at the same time.

20:26And also feels, it does feel a bit unisex, but feels like aimed at men. It definitely feels more masculine. Yeah. I think I'd say exactly that. Tick, tick, tick, tick, tick. Bravo. Helicopter. Thank you. Like I can imagine that on my shelf now. Yes. And that is the start, isn't it? If you pulled this out at the sauna, post-sauna, what would people think? They'd think, wow. I've pulled my foreskin out in the sauna before and people have complained. This is the sort of foreskin you can pull out and people will indulge. Look, what I'm saying here, this is the advert. Like, I know we've done this before, but this is the advert, guys.

21:07This is the advert. It's that thing where you're like going... We're in a sauna. something like, it's like, I pulled my foreskin out in the sauna. There's something talking about that. And then it turns out it's our product. Everyone's having to laugh. It's a joke. We're all having a great time. Turns out it's an amazing product. Everyone loves it. This is the advert. So we've moved on from the logo to the advert. We haven't looked at yours yet. Oh, sorry. Sorry. Can we see your foreskin first? Ella, thank you. That is fabulous. It's great. I really like it. It's exciting, exciting. It's fantastic.

21:43I'm starting to sweat. I'm excited. Oh, my God. Okay, second choice. Just describe what we'd said again. So this was Joel's beforehand. And then let me move your cup out of the way. There's a picture here, Joel. And what we were looking for. So more playful. Yes. So we're actually looking for a little bit less playful. So this has gone a bit too far into the playful realm, a bit too cheeky and to reel it in a bit. And make it a little bit more like Ben's. Really fun. But when I look at this, it doesn't feel like it's trustworthy. It doesn't feel like it necessarily works. Three, two, one. I'm turning it around.

22:26I like it. Joel, do you have another board to hold up? Yes. That one's got a bit more of a close-up on there. Oh, there it is. Large. Oh, I like this. There we go. Okay. Initial thoughts? what do we think the four uh font feels very um trustworthy feels very business it's times times new roman vibe yeah you know just like yeah this is business the tappity tap on my on my keyboard that's what that says you know yeah and then the skin is soft and it's like it's like you say a bit unisex i like the kick back on the k just to be specific i'm glad you noticed that look at so that's what it was so the curled up from the s down to the the kick of the kicking cut um i do love the more i look at it the more i love it uh so then how do i do this let me do it that way there you go there you go then you can see sort of both you look at because I look at both of them.

23:33The more I look at them, the more I love them. You're curling your lip in a sort of degustation type way. I love them. This is hard, isn't it? But hey, you know what? We're not making the decision. Thank the Lord.

23:56Should I ask you which one you prefer, Ella? Oh, that's an interesting question. So I think I actually prefer Joel's new one because i was thinking about how obviously it's targeted at men but then women will also buy it for their husbands for their boyfriends yeah and i think we've got we keep revisiting that uh statistic that i think 80 percent of men's skincare is bought by women i think i might have made that up i think i think ben might have made that up early doors and we've really um and so i think that is a huge part of it so we needed to but ultimately also a uh a lady who buys something for their husband wouldn't buy something that appeals to them they would appeal buy something that appeals to their husband yeah there's a lot going on yeah it's all about a balance so i think we've done that ella you've got a uh boyfriend yeah and i'm assuming you've shown him i have shown him yeah yes now this is proper user feedback because he's right in the sweet spot of uh these sort of products what was did you ask him what he thought i did i don't know now be honest be honest so so you know um your Ben's logo has got that rectangle around it.

25:22I originally had that in orange and his, I don't know what this says about my boyfriend but his initial reaction was that looks like a very rude logo of a very rude website which has got lots of naked people on. So that was an issue. So we know what he likes to do in his spare time, is that what you're saying? Exactly, I think that's what we like today. Than it does about anything else there. You didn't have to share that But I'm glad you did. With the world. I see what you mean, yes. Okay, so highlighting that second word has an implication to it. Yeah, I do like it. I also like the stamp. You've kept the stamp from the previous one.

26:00We really love that on the previous one. But we've elevated it. We elevated it. Yeah. That's your thing. That's your thing. I absolutely love it. Ella, this has been absolutely incredible. and I really love the two options and I feel genuinely comfortable giving both of those options to the world. Whichever they go for. Whereas before I felt a little bit reticent and a bit like, oh God! Whereas now I'm like, they are both fantastic options. I'm really excited. I think all credit to you, Ella, because you have managed to capture what was in our heads and that we said in a way that is far above of what I had assumed it would be.