Alessandro Michele and Jacopo Venturini on the New Valentino

0:04Hi, this is Imran Ahmed, founder and CEO of the Business of Fashion. Welcome to the BOF podcast. It's Friday, December 20th. Over the summer, our editor-at-large, Tim Blanks, and I both spent time with Valentino's new creative director, Alessandro Michele, to learn about his vision for the fabled Roman couture house. One thing became really clear in those conversations. Alessandro was drawn to Valentino in part because it would reunite him with Valentino's CEO, Jacopo Venturini. Alessandro and Jacopo first made magic together at Gucci, alongside CEO Marco Pizzari, when the luxury mega brand quadrupled its profits after a period of slow growth in the post-Tom Ford era.

0:51There is a special symbiosis in their pursuit of creativity and business, based on a strong emotional connection and a shared passion for creating beautiful things together. In their first ever joint talk, Alessandro and Jacopo joined Tim Blanks at BOF Voices 2024 to share their plans for Valentino and go inside their unique creative process. I think that I polarize the audience in some ways, you know, there are people that hate me in a very strong way. I'm happy with me because I'm free and I think that is something that I must preserve. With his enormous creativity, he was the right person to connect the heritage and the new vision for Valentino.

1:46It's very important to work with someone that you respect and that you value the opinion in order to improve every day because we are human beings. So we need to have someone that we trust. Here are Alessandro Michele and Jacopo Venturini with Tim Blanks on the BOF podcast. Welcome, Alessandro. Good morning. Good morning. Hello, everybody. Yesterday, you made a personal appearance at Dover Street Market with the new collection. How did that go, first of all? I'm curious, who came? Friends. Alessandro, you answer, I answer. Some friends.

2:40Some clients. Some clients. Some fans of Alessandro. A lot of fans of Alessandro, I would say. This is what I'm curious about. What are your fans saying when they show up at Dover Street to meet you? Are they saying we've missed you? Yeah. Welcome back. Thank God you're back. All these things. All these things. Yeah, it's a lot. I mean, they put so many things in you. They were students from the San Martins. Yeah, it's beautiful because, I mean, I'm surrounded by love, so I'm lucky. Yeah, it's about, you know, sharing nice things and, yeah. And I was with Jacopo just chatting and I don't have so much time when I'm there because people want to take pictures and saying nice things.

3:27So you have to give them something. Is it common for the designer and the CEO to make appearances together like that? Is this a rare thing, would you say, when you're launching a collection? I think that sometimes happens. Yeah. I think. Sometimes I think it happens. Yeah, yeah, it happens. Yeah, it's not rare. I'm not sure. I don't want to say. I mean, in the past I did it. I mean, in a different way, maybe, but... Now, what I'm getting at is that, and what we're talking about here, is the emotional connection between creativity and business in Valentino. Your particular connection does seem quite unusual.

4:06And I want to talk about how it came about. How long have you known each other? I mean, we've known each other, I think, since 10 years, probably more. Almost, yeah. Almost, yeah, 10 years. And I think that our relationship is special because Alessandro is special. And it's really based on trust, respect. when we talk about work, there is no competition between us. Of course, we do two different jobs, but in order to do our jobs in the right way, considering the way we want to do it, so with an emotional involvement, which is very important for both of us, there are no I would say overlapping in our job but there are always discussion between us I mean if I comment something or if he comment something about retail or something about production or something about something else I take it always as something that we should work on because we should always improve I mean we are human beings and we make mistakes and And it's very important to work with someone that you respect and that you value the opinion in order to improve every day because we are human beings.

5:40So we need to have someone that we trust. Well, you worked together at Gucci. Yeah. And you worked very, very well together at Gucci. Were you just looking for the opportunity to reconnect with Alessandro? Yeah, I mean, it happens all very naturally, I would say. Of course, when there was the opportunity to call Alessandro, I call Alessandro. I share my vision on Valentino with Alessandro. And I also investigate on how he was feeling about Valentino, if he really likes the brand. For me, it was something very natural because I thought that with his enormous creativity and with his eyes that always looks at things in a different way, He was the right person to connect the heritage and the new vision for Valentino without losing the heritage.

7:01What I think is very important is that, I mean, for me, Valentino is something very personal. Because, I mean, I worked there for, this is the third time that I come back in Valentino. So, you know, it's not something that happens so often. And it's also, in a way, a gift from life that you can go back to the same company and in different roles. And you arrive to the role of a CEO where you can do what you think should be done according, of course, with the shareholder. And what was important for me, it was since the beginning to reposition Valentino as a maison de couture, because Valentino was born as a maison de couture, and these are the roots.

7:53and being a maison de couture means, you know, these are two words that have also a very important semantic meaning because maison means home and so it means a place where you feel comfortable to stay. At the same time, couture means obsession for details, be able to do exceptional craftsmanship, creativity at its maximum level and its maximum level of freedom. But at the same time, you know, couture means a special relationship between, a very intimate relationship between a premier and a client because the relationship that there is between the two is very intimate. And what I thought was that, I mean, first of all, the repositioning of the maison where it should be and where it should naturally be and where it deserves to be as a maison de couture, but then these two words are really key in a way to build a culture inside the company.

8:59And I really think that the culture is one of the most important thing, if not the most important thing that you should build in a company. It's the most difficult thing to build in a company because it takes a lot of time. You do four steps ahead and three steps behind on a daily basis, so it's very stressful. But if you have a strong creativity, you can support the strategy, you can support the growth. Having said that, go back to your question. This was completely, let's say, embraced by Alessandro. And what was also important for me was that Valentino has a past and a heritage that is really obvious, I would say, but there is also a lot of hidden past, of past that is not so obvious.

9:54And since I work with Alessandro so close in Gucci, and I know his passion for what has been done before and for beautiful things, I thought that with his, again, eyes, that to me look at things in a way that I don't even know how he's able to do. But I'm always curious because there is a freedom in his eyes and the creativity in his eyes that is unbelievable. He always opened also my eyes. I thought that it was really the right person. I really believe that it was really the right person to be able to work with the heritage, putting himself, but being respectful of the heritage, which I think that for a Maison like Valentino, it's very important because the respect of the heritage, I think it's something that it's very important when you work in a brand that has an important history behind.

11:02Otherwise, it's an empty box. You said you don't know how Alessandro does it. Let's ask him how he does it. When you got the phone call from Jacopo, were you surprised? No, at all. Because we spoke so many times. I mean, first of all, we are friends. I mean, I think that it's been very easy for me because when he left Gucci, that was a long time ago, I really understood what it means when you lost someone that is very capable, you know, to feel the things, the creativity, the conversation. Yes, I mean, I was not really surprised because, I mean, I just, I already knew that the other creative director was leaving the company, I mean, leave the company.

11:58and I think that we dreamt together the same thing. So when he called me, yeah, I was in the middle of a kind of, you know, very special moment because I was trying to choose the right thing. And at the very end, like in a date, in a love affair, you know, that you are trying to plan everything, the house, the furniture. Yeah. I mean, you change your mind and you think to sell the house. And I sold it. No, I'm joking. I mean, but I was really happy because I was thinking, oh, my gosh, how would be work with someone that you admire, but also you feel it as a good companion, are partnering crime, because we were usually, you know, talk about fashion things.

12:56And yeah, I don't know. I was not surprised. I was just when you are dreaming about that call, maybe, and it happened. And yeah, I think it's about love, you know. So would you say Valentino is kind of a love affair then? Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I think that it's a special place with a special soul, very different to an idea of a brand. It's like that you must care about this house, you know, this home that is a real home. It's the place where, you know, the founder, but not just the founder, the person that loved so much to make that dream happen. I mean, everything is still there, you know, all the things, the clothes, the chairs.

13:48It's amazing. Yeah, it's so true. I mean, you really feel it. It's not about, you know, suppliers, factory. It's about trying to make a dream, trying to make something about love. And so I like the feeling that you find inside. Was it at all intimidating to move into Valentino's house? At the beginning, yes. I was very stressed when I came the first time. I mean, I was very happy because I was with him, but happy in the way that I felt very protected. He did everything for me, like, I mean, I'm living in Rome and he's living in Milan, and he came for a month and a half, almost two yeah no i'm not that good with the time but yes maybe two months just joking and but it's been i mean it's such a beautiful time you know because we had the opportunity to really chat and plan everything and work work yeah that that it's the translation of a good way to work is to live, you know, to have a nice day with the right person.

15:11So, yes, I mean, at the beginning, I was very intimidated about the idea that I had on my, I mean, on the second floor, also all the tailors and, I mean, I think 85 people almost. But you'd never had that before. No. You'd never had Natalia before. Never. I had something in Rome for a special project, you know, all that amazing dress that we did. But it's different, you know. I mean, this place has like a heart that didn't stop never. Sometimes you feel that you are one of the people that try to work with them. I mean, they are stronger than you. You feel it. I mean, but not because it's not about, you know, who is the boss.

16:07It's about the heritage that they are keeping and the things that they sow. It's a part of the might of Italian fashion. So, yes, I felt in another place. I mean, I was not in a brand, you know. I was like getting inside a gate that I knew from my childhood. I mean, I passed by a million times with my parents, my dad, going to Spanish Taps and Via dei Condotti. Yeah, there was like a place, you know? I love the story you tell about seeing Valentino and Giometti, his partner, going to, you assume they were going to check out McDonald's the day that it opened in Rome. I love the idea of those two immaculate visions of extraordinary, I don't even know how you describe them, masculinity, going to McDonald's for a burger.

17:10Yeah, they were with a few of the little dogs. I think they were just curious, probably, or they were getting out from the office, the building. I don't know. I mean, I was like a teenager. And I had this girlfriend at that time that she loved to go there because it was the first McDonald's, the Italian McDonald's, you know. So it was like the temple of teenagers. And, I mean, very different for me because I hated that place. I can say, yeah, I didn't eat nothing at that time. Yeah, and I saw these two incredible people. Yeah, so chic, so different, you know. But I think very curious and fun. and I think that they both just someone from for them french fries or something like this and someone told me because I saw both of them from the back and a friend of mine he told me oh he's monsieur Valentino mr Valentino and I was oh that's incredible I mean I was thinking that our god doesn't really walk in the street you know so yeah I mean it was it's almost the metaphysical idea that I have of Rome, you know.

18:22There is a city where you can see very strange things. You have the Pope. Yeah. You have the... Valentino. The President. The President. And you have Valentino. Valentino and yeah, I mean years and years ago there were also many directors, they were like gods, like Federico Fellini, Lucchino Visconti and many, many, many Antonioni. I mean, yeah, but full of artists. I think the time when Valentino started was really like very interesting place, you know, full of interesting people. We'll be right back with more on the BOF podcast.

19:06Now that you're embedded, you've settled into the house. What is your feeling about it now? now it's yours now how do you feel about it the legacy that Jacopo is talking about the heritage but also your eyes he said he doesn't know how you do it you look at something and you translate it into your language so how is that going uh I'm trying to do this process in the most easy way, you know, without boundaries, without, I try to feel not, you know, the power of the heritage of the brand, of the archive. I try to be a friend of this amount of things. I try to be gentle and my position is always, you know, to bring me in that place.

20:04It's always me in that place. It's not my place, you know. It's me walking in that place that is, in a way, changing as something very familiar. But yeah, it's like half and half, you know. You feel like an eternal visitor then, in a way. Yeah, I mean, I think that is a good position, you know, because you can discover many things. It's like that you have more feed, you know. I don't know, maybe one time we were talking about it with Jacopo because we share many things and I was thinking maybe there's going to be a time that is going to look more me than Valentino probably, I don't know I think that I like the ambiguity of the things, you know I prefer to be in between to make the people crazy like oh, it's him doing things, it's not Valentino it's Valentino there is always a conversation And yes, it's a strong conversation because I think that me and him and with Jacopo, I mean, we have a strong vision.

21:13So, yeah, it's such a big thing always. Do you know when you say it will look more like me than Valentino, what do you look like then? What does that look like? I don't know. I mean, I think that I polarize the audience in some ways. You know, there are people that hate me in a very strong way and aggressive way. And it's so fun, you know, because, I mean, I don't care. No, I don't care at all because I'm too old, you know, to care about all these stupid things. You know, it's like, I mean, yesterday I was looking on Instagram. There was a picture of me just walking in the street because I was, I mean, I finished to work.

21:54And I was just looking and I'm in a window of a shop. Yes, I had like a straw shopping, a crocodile bag, maybe a pair of Crocs. I can't remember. I have like a tapestry jacket. I mean, yes, maybe things that didn't really talk the same language, you know. And I was just relaxed. And I mean, I didn't imagine. I mean, it's something that happened very often. And people were like, where did he pretend to go? Why is he wearing the straw bag? It's winter. I mean, it's a, no, so just to say that it's a crazy word, you know, word. And I mean, there are many people that maybe share the same thing that being me.

22:40I think that, I don't know. I mean, maybe you should talk with my therapist instead of me. I mean, I don't know. I know that. She's very happy with you. She's very happy with me. She's very happy with me for many reasons. I'm happy with me because I'm free. And I think that it's something that I must preserve. And I feel really bad for the people that are so aggressive in front of the freedom of someone else. I think that it's so, I don't know, not human, you know, because it means that you have something in your life that is not really working well. But by the way, getting back to your question, being me, it's more about being sincere.

23:33That's it. Enjoying the things and feeling yourself as a kid. Easy. Jacopo, working with Alessandro, has that experience changed you? Or have you changed him? Or have you changed each other? I don't know. You should ask Alessandro if I have any influence. Of course, it's not really working with him, but knowing him, that has changed me. Because he's a very free person and he's always in a good mood, which is something that I'm not. so but with him I'm always in a good mood then it's easy to make me I mean it's not easy but I mean I don't always start the day in a good mood he always in a good mood to me it's something very important and then he's really free I mean he doesn't really care about as he was saying It doesn't really care about the judge of the other people.

24:42And I think that what he just said, it's really the most important thing that really also influenced me. The fact that if someone is judging you for the way you are, you shouldn't get this bad influence. You should not really care about that. Because there is someone else in front of you that has something to deal with. And he's not able to do it. And I think that this, knowing him was very important for me. Working with him, I have a lot of respect for creativity. Creativity is everywhere, I would say, in everything that we do. I can be creative also in my job. but there is a level of creativity that to me is the genius creativity which belongs to really very few people and I think that Alessandro is one of the few people that has this genius creativity I really admire that because it starts from a real freedom And when I say that his eyes look at things in a way that always surprise me, it's because I think that, again, his eyes that starts from, that has a vision of things that always open also eyes of someone else in a way.

26:23You always see things in a very interesting way. And I've always been in my job. I mean, in my previous job, it was merchandising that I have not lost right now because I'm still supervising merchandising. I'm a GMM at interim, but I have very good people in merchandising working on the collection. But let's say that the maximum expression of working with a creative has been with Alessandro because his aesthetic is an aesthetic that is very peculiar. And you really have to understand that. And in order to understand that, you have to be very humble and you have to ask also questions. and to try to understand.

27:17Then there is a connection between us. Sometimes I don't even have to ask him because I understand it. But, I mean, my job is really to bring this very high energy that there is in the creative process, which is a fuel generator. I mean, it's a fuel. It's an energy. It's a very big, big energy. For me, it's an incredible energy. And to bring this energy until the client advisor and until our clients. That's why I was saying that our company is really human centric and creativity centric because there is a big organization that should be in the back end and nobody should see it. but that allows this creativity, this energy, these ideas translated into the real world without losing any single piece of this energy and this creativity.

28:26We could call it synergy as well between the two of you. What do you expect from this synergy in the future? What can we expect from this synergy in the future? What have you got planned, in other words? We've got your first Haute Couture collection coming up. I'm not really well, I mean, so good to plan things. I don't plan that much. But I'm positive because I'm working so well with Jacopo in the company. It's a big challenge for me. So for me it's positive when I have to experiment different things, as you said, like the couture. I like when I feel myself as a guest experimenting things that maybe are a little bit different I mean I'm very positive because it's the right environment to make beautiful things and as Jacopo said I mean before it's a mutual thing I mean I feel very protect I know that I can call him every time I want just to be aligned, to share things.

29:39We are building everything from the stomach, you know what I mean? So that's why I was saying, I mean, planning and not planning. Because, I mean, I'm understanding that, you know, you cannot really plan in fashion. And what is happening, you know, outside in the business, it's that they thought that they could plan everything. that you cannot. So I would say that I feel myself like in a little beautiful garden. I'm going to put in the middle of this garden, I think, the most exotic, you know, plant that is going to be the couture that I didn't do never in my life. And I'm happy and I think that it's an easy thing, to say that when you are in the right place with the right people it's easier it's harder because this job is hard you can do it without being like exhausted because it's exhausting I mean you are with your job every day every minute in your bed during breakfast after breakfast you're talking with your boyfriend and you're thinking about job you're trying to get connected with other people but if you are in the middle of something yeah it's it's it's a lot of things but um i'm very positive i'm and i'm and i'm happy you know i i would say that i hope that nothing change so do i yeah so so do we had something tim sorry now i think that i mean i totally agree with alessandro of course uh i mean we have a strategy I think it's very clear of where we reposition the brand and where we would like to go and which are our value, which I think are, again, very important because they build the culture.

31:43But at the same time, I think that what Alessandro said, it's very true because we ask ourselves questions on a daily basis. so I think that in the contemporary world I don't know maybe probably even in the past you have to ask yourself question every day you have to put under discussion what you are doing on a daily basis and I think that this is not a weak point but I think it's just the reality of being a human being that are aware of the fact that things change, things evolve, and you need to get the feedback of the market and then use it in the way you think it deserves to be used. But it helps you to make you think, you know, within a framework.

32:43Yeah, that was the subject of our talk, the emotional connection between creativity and business. So there it is. You just defined it for me. Thank you very much, both of you.

32:57The BOF podcast is edited and produced by Olivia Davies and Eric Bria.