Alessandro Michele: “There is always Mr. Valentino somewhere with me”

0:00Hi, this is Imran. Before we get started with this week's episode, I wanted to let you know we're launching a new segment on the BOF. podcast called Ask Me Anything. I receive so many excellent questions from people all over the world about the state of the fashion industry. Now you'll have your chance to have your questions answered here on the BOF podcast. We want to hear from you. If you have a burning question, head to the DMs in BOF's Instagram and send us a voice note or send a voice note to podcast at businessoffashion.com. I can't wait to hear what you come up with.

0:40Hi, this is Imran Ahmed, founder and CEO of The Business of Fashion. Welcome to the BOF podcast. It's Friday, September 27th. This week, we unveiled the BOF 500 Class of 2024. To mark the occasion, we profiled five inspiring members of our global community who have achieved success on the business and creative sides of the fashion industry, as well as at the growing intersections between fashion, film, and sports. We are excited to share a special series of BOF 500 podcast interviews, starting with Valentino's new creative director, Alessandro Micheli, who will make his runway debut for the Roman Couture House on Sunday, September 29th.

1:22For years, Alessandro worked in the back rooms of Gucci, but found public success co-piloting the brand's blockbuster turnaround as its star creative director later in life. His whimsical, bold approach revitalized Gucci, turning it into a cultural juggernaut. After a hiatus from fashion, Alessandro is now turning his attention to Valentino, where he will bring his signature blend of nostalgia, craftsmanship, and artistic risk-taking. This place has such a specific story. It's so unique, you know? What makes it unique? That name, Valentino, It's a real name with a real life, with a real love. And he's the one that in Italy did and came from that couture.

2:10Also when I'm working by myself with the people of the studio, with Jacopo, there is always Monsieur Valentino somewhere with me. This week on the BOF podcast, I sit down with Alessandro to reflect on his evolution as a designer, his deep connection to Valentino's heritage, and the importance of passion and obsession in achieving creative success. Here's Alessandro Michele on the BOF podcast. Alessandro, it's such a pleasure to be here. And what an amazing office. What a beautiful space. You've only been here for three months. I know you're just settling in. So it's a real pleasure to sit down with you for this interview.

2:53For this special series of BOF 500 podcast interviews, we're talking to people about success because success is different for everybody. Success looks and feels different. Sometimes when people talk about success in the media, they talk about it as like this, but success comes in all different forms. You know, success also comes with challenges and failures along the way. And you're clearly a success, but you're here in a way having a second coming. You know, it's a second moment because success is often followed by another challenge. And so I'm really excited to have this conversation with you because I want to get into your mind to understand how you're feeling right now, how you're thinking right now, and also to share some advice and guidance for other people who look up to you.

3:39My first question for you is really, you know, when you think about success, how do you define success? What does success look like and feel like to you? hmm ciao imran it's a it's a big question i don't know if i'm capable to explain exactly if i had to think about a success life or you know a kind of success it's not a pyramid it's not a way to go up but it's more circular okay i i'm thinking about life as a circle maybe you can move you know somewhere in the circle where you feel better and if you don't feeling better and you are not doing the right thing you can just move a little bit in another space of this circle you know and it's more moving on left and right than up or down you know it's I think that society pushes people thinking about the way that is good or bad to be in your life, going up or getting back down.

4:52It's not me. I'm thinking more, I mean, that success is when you are in the right place, when you are in a place that you choose, when you're free to be yourself. I don't want to look like the guy that tried to say simple things because it's a way to look better. But I'm realistic because life, it's a space, you know. You have just to move where you feel more comfortable. And yes, maybe for most of the people, I'm the one that had a kind of success. The reality that to me, it's more that I had the chance to share what I'm doing, the things that make me feel good with other people. That's very, could be the image of success, you know.

5:45But it could be also that when you're sharing something with 10 friends, 15 people, people that believe in the same things, you know, that you share the same thoughts. Most of the time, I don't like the word success. Yeah. It's not my word. Yeah, I really liked the way you talked about it as a circle, because in a way, we're in a full circle moment right now with you starting in a new house here at Valentino. I wanted to go back to the first circle, though, when you started at Gucci and you were kind of plucked from the background, right? You'd been working in the background with Tom Ford and Frida Giannini and you'd been at Gucci for many, many years.

6:25And then all of a sudden you were given this opportunity. How did you feel at that time? Like what was going through your head when you were given the keys to this incredible new opportunity? Yes, I felt that there was something interesting, deep. And maybe, yes, sometimes big. But big, I really felt that it was that big almost at the end. Okay. Because when you are in a love story, love story, love affair, because for me, it's been a love affair. I was already there. I worked with so many people and I knew the company well because it's a huge place. Yes, maybe when I started, it was smaller than now and maybe it was a big Italian brand.

7:11But it was a different time, you know, because so many things changed in the last 10 years. I think that the world of fashion changed, the world changed. I just had fun, you know, because I was surrounded by friends and people that, you know, worked with me for years and years. And it's been such an amazing time, you know, time where I was, you know, to read my story, you know, and me and the company and put on the paper a vision and make the vision real. And let the young generation and all the people, old and young, all together, you know, like enjoying this moment. And it's been like almost eight years of joy and happiness.

7:54And I don't know how everything happened. It's still a mysterious thing, I think. It all happened really quickly, right? I remember there was that first men's show. And then a few weeks later, there was the ready-to-wear show. And it kind of shifted everything. I worked so hard, you know, because I love my work. I'm loving my work. Sometimes, I mean, also in the last year, I was thinking maybe I can give up, you know, because it's, I can do a movie, I can do other things. Maybe I did almost everything, but I understood that it's my playground. The one that I really feel it, you know. At that time was, as you said, I mean, everything came very quick.

8:38But I think that when you have an intense life, but not because I'm the one that usually, I'm not so slight, I'm not usually, I don't used to go out that frequently. But I mean, intense because I feel my job. I feel the things I do. I like life. I like light. I like to walk up. I like to enjoy in front of a painting. I like to chat with my boyfriend, with friends, look at the beautiful things, collect. When you have an intense life and your brain is really, yeah, alive, I think. Stimulated. Stimulated, yeah. And I'm the one that usually stimulated pretty well my brain. And I shared the things with, it's my real life.

9:29And at that time, I just put it on the table, a piece of my real life. It's of my thoughts. And it's going to get really easy when it's real. I think that that's the word that explains how it could be possible at that time to make it alive in such a quick way. Because it was just me and who I am. I think that it's a way to be a creative person or to work in a project, putting many things that belong to you with, yes, with the people, with the company. But I didn't expect, honestly. I usually, I mean, I'm the one that usually say, you know, I did everything from my stomach. I didn't expect that reaction.

10:28Yeah. That, by the way, was half and half. At the beginning, yeah. Yeah, very. People doubted it at the beginning. A lot. Some people. Very polarized, you know. People that were really crazy because they maybe felt the same. Others that were like very against. Yeah. Then it's good, you know. You need always people that are against you. It's an energy, you know. And it's a way to make them, you know, maybe start to think something different. I don't know. I mean, especially now, maybe with social media, you are always in the middle of this playground. Yeah, there's always a reaction. Yeah. I remember, Alessandro, it started out, as you said, from a really instinctual place, from your stomach or from your gut, right?

11:13But then quite quickly it became a really big deal. The biggest turnaround in the history of the fashion industry, the business grew really quickly. And you were all of a sudden gone from the background to being in the spotlight. And I get the sense you're not the kind of person who really loves that kind of spotlight. How did you cope with that? I didn't really felt under the spotlight. You didn't? No, never. Not that strong, you know, because I was really confused. Just concentrated on the many, many things that I was working on. And I was really enjoying the studio that was almost mine at the time.

11:54And I could share with my friends that were working with me. So I felt always in a tiny studio. Like a bubble? Yeah, kind of bubble. I have to say that that time, it's been such a cozy moment of my life. It started to change when everything became bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. Yes, I try to ignore it because as you said, I don't like really because I don't think that I'm shy. I'm not. No. In the real life, I'm not shy. I'm a good boy. I can have many conversations. I like people and being sometimes on that stage, especially when I remember I got the first award and after, I think, many months, but not that, I mean, maybe eight, something like this.

12:48I'm, I mean, I'm totally relaxed with my job, but I don't like to show myself. I don't know why. It's intense, you know, because when you have in front of you more than like 30 people, I think that it's a human thing that you can really deal with that, you know, massive numbers of people. I think that it's not natural. And I feel more comfortable and around a table of 80 people maximum. But yes, it was my life. And it was part of your job, right? Part of your job became engaging with many people, many more than 30 people. Yeah, more and more. Millions of people on the internet, as you said, sometimes reacting and responding in like polarizing ways.

13:35And, you know, I think one of the biggest challenges for designers right now are realities of designers is that everything is scrutinized so much. I mean, how do you protect your creativity when there's so much attention, so much scrutiny? I try more to concentrate myself on the things that I like and be concentrated if I'm happy or I'm not happy. That's the problem. I mean, I try to walk always in the right side of the way. Because when you pretend to be for everybody, it's very complicated. I'm trying to be good with myself. It's a big deal, you know, it's a big thing. because I mean, I'm almost 52 years old, November, and I'm enjoying my life and who I am.

14:27And I think that that's a good way to feel yourself, you know, good and happy. And maybe trying to, I don't want to say ignore, but I don't like to give, I don't, I'm trying to feel myself not connected with people that maybe are very different or they don't understand or, you know, it's normal that when you are pretty popular, it's a stupid thing to try to be concentrated on, you know, it's a, I think the real life is always a good thing to, to look at, you know, our conversation here, me and you, I don't lose myself. I don't waste my time doing this crazy thing, like checking everything, you know.

15:15So you're not reading all the comments and all of that stuff. I don't like these kind of things. I mean, I think that people are free to say what they want, you know. I need to be happy. And I mean, it's a strange time because in the past it was not like this. As you said before, I never thought when I was a teenager, when I was younger, starting this job that could be like being a pop star sometimes. Yeah. Because I started and I've been concentrated in completely on other things. And I was not thinking about my body, the way I look. I'm pretty obsessed to be happy with my look because I need to feel exactly who I am in my body.

16:03But just for me and for maybe friends and sister, partner, real life and myself, first of all. Now it's like that, I mean, yes, you have to start this conversation with, you know, hundreds and thousands of people that you don't know, I mean, on the social media. And they put a comment under every single picture of you, maybe. The only thing that I'm feeling is they just put in these kind of comments and conversation, something that for me is still pretty mysterious. They seem to be very aggressive sometimes. It's like that I'm stealing something from them. It's interesting. And oftentimes they're doing it with the veil of anonymity, right?

16:49It's like this anonymous account. So sometimes if you click on over some of those really harsh messages, you can see it's just someone who's... It could be, I think that if you're young, it could be very complicated. I'm more from the other age, I mean, from the other century. I still write instead of, you know, type. What do you say, type, yeah. I play with the iPad, but I'm not so good. And so maybe because I don't feel that this is a real life. I mean, real life is the one that I can really see with my eyes, that I can touch. So maybe that's why I don't put so much in that kind of, you know, activities.

17:37It's, I feel very far, you know, that's the real life, I think. So at some point you parted ways with Gucci. You know, why did that happen? What happened that you decided to leave? I mean, there are many reasons, you know, kind of personal reason when a job doesn't fit anymore with you, because maybe you don't feel in the right place in the right moment. I mean, when I started, I felt in the right place. You felt like you were sharing. Yeah. I mean, at the end, I mean, I started to feel the pressure a little bit. The company was huge. Many people. yeah I mean it's a it's like a relation you know you just feel that you are not more in that you know relation and I leave the company really happy because I had such a great time I'm not the guy that I don't have regrets if I would have a chance to start again I would do it again it's part of my life but i decided with i think very easy and simple conversation that that was the time you know and um i was really happy because i was thinking that maybe you know there is a time for everything yeah and i think that is also really good when you feel it because when you try to go and walk on the same street that you know that is not going maybe in the right place.

19:16Yeah. I think there is a gift that you can feel it. Do you make a lot of decisions with the way you feel? Does that guide you a lot? Yeah, a lot. If I don't feel good, yeah, I'm very sincere with myself. I think that that's the most precious thing that I'm trying to keep inside of me. I think that I'm almost the same person, the same guy, the same boy that I'm at the very beginning. I mean, it's the same thing. I'm the same person. I have the same, you know, energy. I don't feel the time. When I came here, I felt there was another place, another home. I mean, I was so happy to start something new.

20:00Yeah, I like the moment that I'm living now, you know. I'm not nostalgic. I'm just happy looking back at the things, like thinking about Gucci. When I look back, I see a beautiful fresco, colorful, full of energy. I'm still surrounded by the pieces of that fresco and surrounded by love and friends. And when I signed it after a year and a half, this contract, they were all happy like they were signing to meet with me. And I'm still surrounded by that people. And yes, I think that I'm lucky. I'm lucky because everything is the same, because I'm still the same. That's probably quite critical to your...

20:53It sounds like it's the same message I'm hearing on a number of different levels, which is in order to kind of continue on this path, you've had to stay really in touch with yourself and your feelings but also that you don't change that you don't want the success in quotation marks i know you don't like that word you don't let it change you no at all i don't need to change why i should change also because it's a i wanted that alessandro feels everything i don't need another one i took some much time to make him Now I'm talking about me as another person, feeling good and being happy. So I want to be with him, not with another one.

21:34Because it's when you are in your body, you feel everything, your arms, your mouth talking now. For example, your eyes looking around you, beautiful things, feeling the energy of nice people. And it's you, always you. Yes, I know that could be dangerous because there is a part of the world of the society that makes you and pushes you thinking like, okay, it's not you. Now you are, you have to change because people expect from you things. They expect that you are that person. But first of all, I'm not capable to do it. So that's the reality. Maybe I would love to do it. I don't know. I don't think so.

22:18it's more that it's not true. You must be who you are because it's a great thing being in contact with this body and this life and walking in the street, feeling the ground, feeling the breeze of the air, you know, that's life. That's God. That's God. We'll be right back with more on the BOF podcast.

22:52I want to talk a little bit about the period in between Gucci and Valentino, because you said you had a year and a half. Year and a half. How did that feel? Like, what did you do? How did you spend that time? Because you must have been, there must have been so many thoughts going through your head, so many feelings you had, so many opportunities being offered to you. Like, how did you navigate that period? And how did you want to spend that time where you got to take a bit of a step back? Simple things, staying at home, things that I couldn't do, working like eight, nine hours every day, traveling everywhere.

23:28So the new thing was no airport, no plane, nothing. Just you, your people, friends, my two nephews, my sisters, friends, my life, my beautiful home, having so many walks in Rome. So I didn't travel that much. Just a few times in London, Paris, sometimes for me, sometimes because, as you said, I had so many conversations. I took my time. I really wanted to be sure that I could really get the right place. So I had such a beautiful time because I think that is a gift because I didn't have never in my life. From when I was starting to the first job, I never stopped. So it was a new feeling, but I felt just me and my life.

24:18I really enjoyed the countryside. So I had the chance to drive in the countryside wherever I want and spending time, like three hours for a breakfast, spending time outside, you know, coffee shop with friends, just chatting, going to the museum just by accident because I was in front of the museum. and I was, okay, I get inside. I mean, I want to spend time just me and myself. And I, yeah, I mean, I shared my time, but in a simple way, but very rich. I think that I didn't have such a rich life like in that year and a half, you know, because it's been a moment that was just me and the, I don't want to say simple thing because they were not simple, you know.

25:04I mean, life is about things. And the little things are the most fascinating, you know, because can you imagine in December staying outside in a coffee shop in Rome with that little light of sun and a cup of hot cappuccino, you know, looking at the facade of the building and feeling that also the season, the winter, also when I was in the countryside looking at the tree, didn't have the pressure inside of me. You had to work, work, work. Yes, I love my work, but it was a lot. It's been an amazing time. Did you discover things about yourself? Having worked for so many years nonstop, 20 plus years, when you stopped for the first time, Did you have any learnings about yourself or discoveries that you said, ah?

26:04I think that I really discovered that the kid is still with me. I'm a kid. I'm not a boy. I'm not a man. I'm a kid in maybe I'm not sure in the body of a man. So I was so happy to find again that kid. That spirit. Yeah, that spirit. I was like, how could you be so happy every day? I don't know. I mean, I think that it's a gift, really. But I discovered, again, I found the kid sleeping with me, eating with me. I was with that kid, you know. And I felt myself in the safe side of the street. I thought, okay, I'm with the kid. I'm not alone. He's here with me, so he can enjoy it with me, everything.

26:54I mean, and that's been the real discover. I mean, I felt that the kid was with me. But when I started to be alone and I was trying to understand what was without working so crazy, I thought that I was in such a good, you know, I had such an amazing companion and partner in crime. and we had so much fun together for a year and a half. Yes, I found him. You know, my executive coach, she sometimes asks me to think about my younger self and give advice to my younger self and like think about him. It sounds like you were spending a lot of time just engaging with that younger version of you that's still there, that you stay true to.

27:45That's so true. I didn't, I mean, I don't know if sometimes, I'm not sure if we are together or it's just me that I'm also scared that people could understand that I'm a kid. Yeah, sometimes when you talk with people that are maybe same age, maybe older than you, I look at them like, oh, they're going to feel it that I'm a kid. They're going to get it immediately. And I don't feel guilty. I just feel, I mean, there are times that I'm feeling uncomfortable. But in the last years, I got information that I can be a kid. It's not that bad. It's amazing. Or I can be, I usually say that I'm like a wild fox.

28:29I feel also like a wild animal. That's a good feeling. I think that is a feeling of freedom because I have this fear that is not be free. So your fear is to lose your freedom. Yeah, exactly. So, I mean, that's bad. Yeah. Why is that your greatest fear? I don't know. Maybe because I really fight for this freedom from the very beginning of my life. And people, they don't like, I mean, people don't like that freedom, you know. They feel more in control when you are not free. And so it's not easy, you know. It's keeping alive your freedom. And sometimes I'm also trying to investigate, are you really free?

29:19Because I don't want to waste my time. I mean, I have just this life and I really enjoy, I like this life. And I want to be sure that I'm kind of free. When you're in this period of reflection and thinking about freedom, did you ever think that you might just never go back to fashion? Like, was there a moment where you thought that fashion and all of the success and fame and attention had taken away some of that freedom and that you wouldn't, you didn't want to go back? Yes. The very beginning I thought, now I'm maybe have more freedom. I'm going to get more freedom. But it was not true because I didn't really stop with this attention that I had from the outside.

30:06Yes, I mean, it's a state of mind being free. But I think that it's you free when you are, you can do what you feel that you need to do. You can be free working also, you know, you can be free. I mean, it's not because you're kind of popular or famous that you are not free. I mean, it depends the way that you talk with the state of mind that you, I didn't have really an open conversation with this popularity, you know. It's been more about what you really feel, you know. For the first year, it's been hard because maybe the spot was bigger in a way. What do you mean? I mean, the people were curious because you were not anymore on the stage.

30:56So they were like, what is he doing? Yeah, there's speculation. Yeah, so it was maybe sometimes more strange because I was like, what do I want to know? I mean, I'm just, you know, doing nothing. Taking a break. Yeah, taking a break. And so I, in the beginning, I was like pretty, I don't want to say oppressed, but I was surrounded sometimes from paparazzi and people. They didn't have to really in the past. I mean, less. So almost because you weren't in a public job and everyone knew what you were doing, it almost made it harder. Yeah, because I was like the one that was walking in the street like I didn't care.

31:39I mean, I don't care the way that I go out. But they were like always doing, you know, comments, speculation and things. And I think that it didn't change as I thought, honestly, because I lived and the job, because I was not on the stage because I was thinking to do something new because maybe I was not. Maybe, yes. Maybe I'm with him, with her, walking in the street. This is a friend. He's a friend. It's a friend of him. I mean, that's that crazy word of being popular. But if you ignore in a sweet way, you know, because I know that people are curious, I think that you can have your freedom. But I mean, I would say again, I mean, you can be free being in the right place, working like I'm feeling now, working with many people that I like, I feel free.

32:33I'm working also, I mean, my CEO is a person that I really respect. Jacopo. Jacopo. And he's a friend, a person that I really respect, very talented. That's why also I feel free. So talk to us about how you decided to come here because you had many conversations. Yeah, man. There were lots of other things. There was some LVMH conversations. There were some other things that you were looking at. Why did this Valentino opportunity bring you that sense of freedom that you were looking for? Because, you know, I mean, I really follow my instinct. I had many conversations, like you can imagine, and many interesting conversations.

33:17I met so many nice people. They were very, they really wouldn't, I think, to work with me and maybe in the future, I don't know. I mean, you know, but you must choose something. And I just try to feel, yes, again, my stomach. And I like at the very end, but very, very, very end of many decisions, these jobs came out. And I thought that Valentino is such a fascinating place, you know, full of life, the life of someone else that invented this place, you know, and this home. And as you know, I love life and I love to spy other lives and to work on founding, you know, the past of other people. And when I had this conversation with Jacopo, and I was thinking, I like the brand.

34:11It's the one, I mean, that I can really do a good job. I mean, there were a few elements that were really working with me. What were those elements? A kind of dusty, chic, Italian, crazy, quirky, and dreamy brand that has the name of a man that came from this incredible story of haute couture was completely different from Gucci. So I love to deal with different challenge, you know. That's the things that I really loved about this place, you know, full of life and stories and about his life and the unbelievable world of haute couture and the beautiful things and friends of him, bodies, relics of the past.

35:01And I was thinking doing now could be so interesting. But the other thing was Jacopo. I mean, I spoke also with Rashid. He is such an elegant and nice person, very interesting person. We had so many conversations. and Jacopo when you like yourself and you want something good for you you need to respect and to love the people that are gonna work with you yes and I was loving to the idea to go back with Jacopo that we worked together in Gucci for I think five years I'm not sure I'm really bad with times and so that sounds right to me what what was what is it about because it's a dream work you know the idea of the relationship between the ceo and the designer is so important in fashion yeah totally why why do things work so well between you and jacob or what is it that makes it so magical i think that jacob understands so many things he has a big instinct he's the only ceo that really understands and likes fashion.

36:13You can really feel it that he's getting the information when you talk with him. He has this sensibility. It's very rare. I think that he's one of the only ones that have this peculiar thing. And the other thing is that we had so much fun together. We laugh a lot. We work so hard. But it's like to being with someone that he really likes, that he would love also to go out for a nice dinner. And can you imagine that you can work with this person? That's the best. So he's so precise. He's so accurate. You know, he let me do the right things. We usually work together. I share with you things. He shared things with me.

36:58So it's a very concrete but also dreamy thing. You know, we like to enjoy the things that we do. and I can't wait to show him what I'm doing. It's amazing. It's like when you have a real, how can I say? I mean, yes, easy. Maybe kind of a friend, you know? Yeah, because that's not, we say job, but it's very complicated, you know, to let this word like hug with just one hug the entire meaning of this life. it's not really a job it's a big thing you need to make it real you know so have the chance to to have a real person that you can have a real relation you know with him it's really it's the best it started to become not just a job but a dream place yeah it's it's it's hard also because I ask to myself a lot when I'm working.

38:03Ask questions of yourself. Yeah, of myself, of the things that I'm doing. I work so hard. I fight with myself a lot and I'm obsessed with the things that I'm doing until the end. And I think that Jacobus is the same. So we try to make it easy and fun. It sounds like you also have a foundation of trust, which is essential. I think so. Because a real friend is someone you can trust. And that means, I think in an industry or a business like fashion, to be successful you also need to take risks. Yeah, so many. But it's hard to take risks with someone if you don't trust them. You guys have that foundational basis upon which to take those risks together.

38:49Yeah, that's so true. I mean, you are taking beautiful risks, but they are risks. Especially, I'm the one that likes risks and challenges, you know. And I know that also this job could be a risk for me. But risks means life. You said beautiful risks. Yeah, they're beautiful because it means that you are doing new things, that you're doing things that you don't know, that you have to put a piece of you or your brain inside new things, a new file to understand the way that you can manage this new thing. Imagine a new movie for me. So yes, it's a risk because it's like that you are in front of nothing at the beginning.

39:42But it's my job to create a bridge, to start to put, you know, the first brick to make a new bridge. And it's like that you're going, at the beginning, it's like, maybe you don't know where you're going or you know well, but you can really tell everything to yourself because otherwise it's going to be so boring. So you try to build step by step this new thing, but it's a risk. You need the right people, but taking huge risks, yeah, because it's for me for example coming here I didn't feel as a risk I mean people from the outside they maybe thought there could be a risk because they think that it's very different it's another thing and some others they were thinking oh but it's going to be out and you didn't do it and yes it's a risk it's another risk but how can you be happy without risk it's not possible I think and I was saying beautiful risks because doing another thing doing maybe a couture show is gonna be such an amazing trip you know why not that before yeah never i mean i did many things and um i've been so accurate you know working on kind of crazy things that they some some most of the people they told me it's like that in Gucci you did a kind of couture show sometimes but I think that it's another thing in the way that you work on the project you know in the very intense things that all the tailors and the people they're working on the gowns and pieces and stuff and the relation that you have with this just one piece you know that it's very fascinating me and it sounds so magical I think that it goes in the very deep part of this job, you know.

41:45There is imagination and creating an environment and places that they became concrete in front of you, but after 15 minutes, they disappear, you know. It is so beautiful. That's fashion. Have you and Jacopo, in the process of making the decision to come here, have you and Jacopo got a plan together? Did you spend time together setting out a vision for what you want to do? Or are you literally taking it one step at a time, brick by brick, as you said? Working in the company? I don't know. I think that we share the things in a very easy and natural way. I think that we share a feeling. I mean, I think that he likes me.

42:34I like him and it's like a love affair. It's going to be easy. You can do many things and in a very natural way, every day almost talking about this decision. He followed me and I followed him in different ways, going on the same place. But I think that we share and we respect each other. Also as friends before working together, we met each other working. And after when Jacopo decided to change, I think that we remained friends. We really liked each other. Could be also very risky again when you are doing something with a friend. I think that you have to be more careful. It's a big job, you know.

43:29It's a lot of work, you know, keeping this precious thing alive so it could be a risk could be a gift but for me the important things is the respect also when you have a relation with a partner you know if you respect the other person it's going to be forever that's the first thing we want to make and create a very healthy house, place. So we are doing little steps, maybe for us from the outside, it's not little. It's our way to see the little things, you know, maybe we are going fast because I can't wait some time, but we are trying to do in the right way, very precise and building the right things because I'm thinking about this place as a unique place, you know.

44:25This place has such a specific story. It's so unique, you know. What makes it unique? That name, Valentino. It's a real name with a real life, with a real love. And he's the one that in Italy did and came from that couture. Also when I'm working by myself with the people of the studio, with Jacopo, there is always Monsieur Valentino somewhere with me. It's like that I'm thinking he's going to kill me or he's going to probably he would love to do the same, maybe not. I mean, there is always an open conversation with him because I can feel the things talking to me. dresses, stuffs, waltz. I think that he walked here many times.

45:17So you feel his presence? Always. Also when I came here the first time, I came back at home and my partner, Vanni, he asked me, oh, how was, how do you feel? And I was like, oh, unbelievable. I really felt so deeply in touch with him. I felt also so lucky to be after him. and I felt also that he loved in a way things that I loved, you know, in a very easy way, you know, enjoying life. Going in the archives, I saw life in the middle of, you know, layers of fabric and very light, you know, chiffon and creptochine and embroidery. everything was all embroidered, you know. Amazing, so crazy and beautiful, attractive.

46:12I've been completely seduct, you know, and I was thinking also that all these beautiful stars belong to people and life and conversation, words, thoughts, love, boats, apartment, you know, shaking hands, hugging people. That's amazing. I mean, yeah, I mean, because probably when I was in Gucci, there is such an amazing place. I mean, I think that Gucci is another, I think that a piece of my heart is still there. It's a story of a family and it's a story of an invention that is great, you know. A luggage. Gucci. Yeah. And it was about bags and craftsmanship and, you know, and the invention of such a, you know, a smart family and man.

47:02and that cross people. But here I really felt that I was inside, kind of in bed with Valentino, you know. Yeah, I felt so strong, his presence. I felt also sometimes uncomfortable. Maybe I can touch it, maybe not. It's not mine. You know what I mean? Yeah. That is a beautiful sensation because it's a gift, you know. You were like when in front of a relique that everybody can look from the distance. They were like, okay, you can touch it. And I was, can I? You have the privilege of getting up close. Yeah, it's a privilege. Have you talked to him or met him? Yeah, I met him in the past several times, but not now.

47:47Yeah. Not now, but I'm thinking about him every day. You put out this pre-collection, which was a surprise for everybody. You know, going back to what we were talking about earlier, you know, people were saying, oh, this looks like Gucci. And, you know, I know in your conversation with Tim, he told me, because Tim and I were chatting about it, he said, actually, you know, I think when Alessandro was at Gucci, he was doing Valentino at Gucci. And now he can do Valentino at Valentino. Does that resonate with you, that idea, that conversation you had with Tim, that you were always very connected to the way Valentino kind of influenced Italian fashion?

48:30Yeah, I think that Valentino has been a big reference in building a ready-to-wear story from, how can I say, I mean, Gucci has no ready-to-wear. It's not a visual thing. You can put, it's an empty box. You can put what you want. I mean, Tom, I mean, when we get back to Tom era, you can say, that's Gucci, 100%. Because he did his vision, he put his vision on the table, and I had no doubt that it was Gucci 100%. He created his movie, and we were all following that movie. And when I arrived in the company, I tried to create me with that, you know, leather goods brand that had an history, but we didn't have the faces and the costumes as a costume designer.

49:28So it was like me, I really, I think that Valentino, I mean, as a reference in the Italian history, it's really big because he's the one that put that, you know, inside the fashion world, this chic and quirky and very, you know, precise Italian chic style of that kind of era, jet set, rich people. And also his legacy stayed, I mean, years and years and years. He didn't really disappear. He stayed on the playground for years and years. So when I went back searching reference, yes, I mean, I was looking at one of the most powerful, you know, aesthetic that was matching so good with the 1970s era, golden era of Gucci.

50:21Yes, and it was a little bit like Valentino. I mean, I saw a million images of that golden era, you know, because he's been the one that started, I mean, before other Italian brands doing, you know, that job and, you know, infecting everything in a way. So maybe I was doing a kind of Valentino. I like his aesthetic. I like the way that he went through that quickness, you know. I think that he did so many crazy things in the 70s and the 80s. Every single lady, Italian lady, maybe not just Italian, that being influenced by his aesthetic. When you're thinking about something that is really precise and chic and kind of glamorous way to look, you think about Valentino.

51:20It's like music when you say the name. So when I was in Gucci, I mean, me, I like that era. And I like to mix and make the mashup of this, you know, very crazy way to look. And I like to work in a contemporary way from the things of that era. So yes, when I came here, I thought that I was sitting on a treasure. So maybe that's the reality that it's what you saw on the pre-collection. it's me because I'm sorry, but it's me. I don't need to be someone else. You know, I think that a big designer or a good designer needs to be himself. Change is something. Yes, it's just the beginning. You need to change a little bit because I don't want to be bored.

52:13But yes, if you say, yes, I can see that it is his hands working on the things and picking the things that he likes. Yes, it's a beginning. It's me. And Valentino, in a way, yes, I discover, you know, that is so close to my sensibility. I'm also curious about myself, what it's going to be. So you don't know? I'm the one that working. It's always, yes, I'm doing what I see because it's like that you have a vision. I see, but you don't know. You see something because otherwise you can work. You see an image, you see, you know that that's the color, that's not the color, that's the shape, that's too long, it's too short, that's not the face that is matching with the dress.

52:59She's not in the story, she's not the right daughter, she's not, you know, because I'm working like this. But you don't know what is going to happen. I mean, many people in France, they were like, I'm so curious, trying to understand what is going to be in the 29th of September, what it's going to be. It's going to be just when it's going to be. I don't know. Because I'm putting everything in the right place, trying to make it possible. But the end, you don't know. Because it's not a movie. I can't cut. It's not a video. It's going to be like a theatrical thing. You're going to put all the ingredients inside and it's going to be real and you can see what you did just when the first person starting to walk outside, you know, the backstage on the catwalk, you don't know.

53:52And that's the magic. I think that is beautiful because it's the time that you feel that you were pregnant, but now the baby has a proper life and you can't be anymore in control. It's outside. It's going to walk by himself or have self, you know. The other thing that's really different this time, Alessandro, with this new project is before there were no expectations. Oh, yes. Right? You were unknown to the industry. You came from the background, from the behind the scenes. You put out this very bold, unexpected aesthetic for Gucci. You took a huge risk. This time it's different, right? This time there's much more anticipation.

54:39Lots of people are asking you about September 29th. And by the time this conversation comes out, it'll be afterwards. But does it feel different this time? Do you feel more pressure? Because people are asking and wondering and speculating about what it's going to be? Not really. No? No, honestly, not really. Because it's more about me and myself. You know what I mean? It's more that I need to accomplish myself, you know? in an easy way. I think that more you're going to be happy with what you're doing and more you're going to be happy with, I mean, how the expectation is going to be from the outside, connected with you.

55:23Maybe, yes, now it's the spotlight. It's more, it's bigger and bigger, you know, and especially after the, also the pre-fall, I'm happy because they, they started to fight, you know, on social media and I was like now they did almost everything I hope that the classroom is gonna be quiet and keep the attention just to enjoy instead to crazy criticize like in that crazy way that was so fun by the way I know that everybody are waiting but I hope that they're gonna wait for something that is gonna be just like a moment to enjoy fashion and things maybe they're not gonna like what I'm doing and what I will do and maybe they're gonna go crazy or there are people but working it's not me that I do things because people expect something no never it's gonna be very hard also because I don't know what people they're gonna expect what they want from me maybe they want me change everything you know but uh they must call someone else they must talk with not with me with another person you know it's not real if not gonna feel myself in that creation and so i'm working very disconnected with all this expectation also because i don't want to say that i don't care because it's not true i mean you care in a way that you would love to share that beauty and uh you would love also to have an open conversation in uh in a good way with people they they criticize you it's my job i mean there is always something you know and um i learn to be disconnected with these kind of things I wanted to conclude with just a little bit of advice for everyone who's listening.

57:28And it's really back to this idea of achieving success takes getting through challenges and overcoming obstacles and dealing with unexpected situations. For people out there who look up to you, who see Alessandro as this, in quotation marks, successful designer, what advice do you have for young creative people that want to be in tune with their creativity, who want to achieve and be themselves in this industry that's so tough, but also want to be successful? Yeah, it's a part of the way that you can be using the word successful, being yourself, fight for the things that you believe. For me, the word that really translates the way that you can be happy with yourself.

58:15And so from maybe successful with you, caring about your passion. There is a kind of love and something that you can live without, you know. You know, it's a very interesting thing that makes everything move, you know? Passion, that it's something that makes you work so hard, that makes you feel so alive and makes you fight and, you know, put all your energy in the things that you're doing. if you really feel it that that you have a passion for something i don't know whatever you want you have to believe and to live for this passion is such a gift to have a passion when people say i you are obsessed you know you are like crazy to do this i mean when you're a kid and you feel that there is something that moves your heart somewhere.

59:22I don't know where. Follow. Follow. If it's crazy, follow. Follow the instinct. You are a wild animal. So let your stomach, body, skin talk to you. And no matter if it's going to be crazy, hard, impossible, nothing is possible. Everything is possible. Also because you need to be happy and following your passion, you're going to be happy. And what do you do when things go wrong? I also talk to people about figure out what your passion is. Yeah. And align your passion with your skills and your talents and your purpose. And that's the right path. But even if you have all of those things, along the way, you're going to face really hard times.

1:00:14How do you summon up the energy slash courage slash drive to keep going? I mean, I can feel it that sometimes, I mean, I met so many young people and I'm getting a big kid. So I remember well when I was young and I came from the school, from an environment that was so far. Working in fashion was just a dream, maybe more than a dream, because sometimes you can go to sleep and dream something. I couldn't sometimes because it was so far from my life. But I had the strength to wait also, working and following, as you said. Because sometimes young generation, they get confused maybe going through this new language that social media try to suggest to you that you can do something in a very quick way.

1:01:21It's not quick. It's not quick. It's like if you won't follow your passion, it's like religion. I mean a god needs your time and and it's going to be beautiful to follow that guy that god I mean it's going to be every time you're going to meet that job that passion is going to be amazing it's like a love affair I mean after years and years maybe it's going to be easy to find your place but you have to wait it's not going to be quick because sometimes they get confused. I think that, okay, I work from, it's three years that I'm working and nothing happened. Three years is nothing. I mean, maybe 15, 20 could be a time.

1:02:15And enjoying also the things that you can capable to do, enjoy the things that you are not doing, enjoy yourself because you are not just the things that you did, but also the things that you didn't do. That you decide to, you know, that were not you. That you maybe, they went wrong. It's you. And it's beautiful. It's interesting. So you're saying that part of the path to finding that success is knowing what is you and what isn't you. Isn't. Because you are also the things that you are not doing. It's like there are people saying, oh, it's such a shame that I didn't do this. No, it's not a shame.

1:03:01It's you. It's just you that didn't do these things. You didn't want, you didn't, you became a different person because you went wrong with something or you didn't decide to do this. I think that we must care about all the things that made us the person that we are, you know. And in this box, you have also something that went wrong. But it's an experience. Maybe you thought that it was you, but it's not. So I like myself also for the things that I did wrong. I like it more. Now that I'm a big boy, I like more and more the Alessandro that did so many wrong things. It's so sweet. A big boy who's still a kid and he still trusts his instinct.

1:03:51Thank you so much for sharing so many vulnerable stories and advice, because I think, you know, we really need it right now. You and I were just talking about how challenging the world is and how challenging the industry is. So I'm really grateful that you've been so open. Thank you, Ibram. It's always a pleasure. Nice conversation. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. The BOF podcast is edited and produced by Olivia Davies and Eric Bria.