Fashion's Ozempic Reckoning

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0:50Sheena Butler-Young: Hello and welcome to The Debrief from the business of fashion, where each week we delve into our most popular BOF professional stories with the correspondents who created them. I'm senior correspondent Sheena Butler-Young.

1:06Sheena Butler-Young: Picture a person standing in front of their own wardrobe, staring at a row of clothes they bought six months ago. None of them fit anymore, not because they've gained weight, but because they've lost it fast with the help of a GLP-1 drug like Ozempic. Our person here is not just looking for a smaller size. They're looking for something that actually fits the body that they have now, which is different from the body that they had last month and may be different again next month. One in eight Americans has now used a GLP-1 drug, and they're exposing a weakness in fashion sizing system. It was built around the assumption that consumers' bodies would remain relatively stable over time.

1:44Sheena Butler-Young: Yes, people have always gained and lost weight, but GLP-1s are making bodies change faster, more frequently, and more visibly than ever before. The question isn't just how to make smaller clothes, it's how to redesign the entire infrastructure of how clothes get made, planned, and sold. Joining me today to discuss is BOF Senior News and Features Editor, Diana Pearl, and Business of Beauty News and Features Editor, Brennan Kilbane. Diana Brennan, welcome to The Debrief. Thanks so much for having me. Thanks, Sheena. Good to see you. So this episode is actually based on my recent story, which is how Ozempic is forcing fashion to rethink fit.

2:22Sheena Butler-Young: I want to start with the comment section on Instagram when we posted that story, because I think it surfaces the genuine tension here. So the most liked comment, which had 463 likes, said, So, plus size women have been saying for decades that traditional fashion sizing needs to be rethought. But the rise of Ozempic is what's actually making fashion change very telling. So what I hear in that comment is a certain kind of skepticism about why the industry is paying attention now. Brennan, I want to start with you. You've covered GLP-1s extensively, and one of your stories called them the most consequential medical development since penicillin.

2:58Sheena Butler-Young: That is a huge statement. So I want to start with why you think these drugs have become such a cultural flashpoint. Well, thank you so much, Sheena. I was perhaps being a little bit hyperbolic when I said it is the most consequential development since penicillin. But GLP-1 drugs are a huge shift. And to kind of understand the shift, you really have to look back at decades of attempts to make a pharmaceutical product that can help consumers safely shed weight, right? So, you know, you have in like the 1930s, 40s and 50s, people experimenting with essentially amphetamines that helped them curb their appetites and eat less.

3:37And that led to a wave of developments in the later half of the 20th century where products were coming to market that helped people curb their appetites, but were not safe. The best example is fentermine. When fentermine was combined with another drug to make fen-fen in the 90s and was a big cultural moment because it seemed to be very, very effective, but then almost immediately was recalled and kind of became the small public health crisis because of its effects on the cardiovascular system. So there's been this demand for a long time, especially in the U.S., which deals with obesity more than any other country in the developed world.

4:15And at the same time, you saw these diabetes drugs that were being produced in the 2000s and 2010s that were showing weight loss, safe weight loss, as a promising side effect. So this GLP-1 boom that we're seeing now, I guess, in 2026 is really the result of those drugs, which had just started to be approved at the end of the 2010s and early 2020s for weight loss specifically, you know, your WEG-OVs, Ozempics. And now the drugs are rapidly iterating. So this does seem to be a shift in medicine and in weight loss medicine, unlike any we've ever seen before.

4:51Sheena Butler-Young: It was so interesting when you were speaking, Brennan, because I was getting flashbacks to the 90s and the early 2000s and the supermarket checkout line and Women's World. And probably every month, Marie Osmond on the cover down 20 pounds, 30 pounds with a measuring tape around her waist and, you know, touting a new a new invention, a new drug and always sort of scratching my head a little bit. Like, is this one the latest and greatest or is it going to be something else next month? But Diana, why do you think similar to what Brendan has just he's sort of given us the chronology here, but why do you think these drugs are provoking such a different reaction than previous conversations?

5:26Sheena Butler-Young: Is it the you know, that they're so effective after years of some effective drugs with many different side effects? Or is it also because in fashion, I think the consumer has long questioned the credibility of body positivity and we're at a cultural flashpoint there or probably both of those things? I definitely think it's both. I mean, I think the effectiveness of the drugs, obviously, like Brennan said, it's game changing. And it has just allowed people who, you know, maybe have struggled with diets and like haven't been able to actually, you know, lose a substantial amount of weight previously.

5:58it's allowed them to, which in a lot of ways is a medical miracle when you think about, like Brennan said, obesity and all the health problems that can come with that. But it also brings up a really tricky cultural conversation with it. Like you said, fashion has always had this very tenuous relationship with sizing and weight. And obviously in the 2010s, there was the body positivity movement. We had already sort of seen that backing away and more thin models on the runways and that sort of thing. And I think that this has just made it even more intense. So I think that it really like represents a lot of different things.

6:30I even think the fact that like for a long time, these drugs were so expensive and they were only accessible to people who were wealthy or celebrities. And it felt like this was something that, OK, now like wealthy people can lose weight, but average people can't. And that sort of thing. I think it just like represents so much of how we feel right now in our society and the tensions in our society. But I think the effectiveness is a huge one because it just has meant the volume of people losing weight is so much greater. And, you know, it's just it's become this like boom of weight loss in our society.

7:04Sheena Butler-Young: Absolutely. And, you know, there's also been a whole new changing like lexicon around weight. Right. We've we've seen literacy around Ozempic specifically. There's like Ozempic face, Ozempic body, Ozempic celebrity, though I haven't heard that one as much. But it's definitely has its own class of language. And they're not necessarily what I've noticed. They're not terms of endearment. Like when you hear someone say she's got a zempic face now, it does not yield positive thoughts or associations. Both of you, and I'll start with you, Brennan, should fashion and beauty actually be participating in this conversation?

7:37Sheena Butler-Young: Does it feel like a safe one to acknowledge outright? right? It's interesting because it is an incredibly difficult conversation to weight into, especially when you don't have any expertise in it. And as beauty brands, you know, beauty brands have, of course, a connection to the way that we see ourselves. Wellness brands, of course, the way that we feel and perhaps the way that we treat our bodies. But this almost seems altogether different, right? And when we talk about weight loss in a kind of cosmetic context is when things start to get tricky, right? So on one hand, you know, there's a lot of these terms like ozempic face, I think come from a kind of, I don't know, this sort of like snide media coverage about people who kind of look down on these like, you know, drugs or these like transformations, right?

8:24It's a kind of way to say like, oh, I know that you are maybe cheating on your appearance, right? This ozempic face is kind of something that you would wear not proudly, but as evidence that you're taking these medicines and maybe not keeping up with the change as well. But at the same time, I've talked to a lot of plastic surgeons and dermatologists and even some skincare executives, and there are things that happen to your skin when you take these medicines. And so there is actually a lot of applications for topical medicine, for aesthetic medicines like new injectables and for, you know, plastic surgery procedures that are kind of designed to help this particular consumer who now has these particular needs.

9:07So on one hand, you know, it's tricky. But on the other hand, this is an area where I think especially like beauty and wellness brands do need to talk to this customer differently, because they are going through a different transformation. But but yeah, I'm curious, Diana, if you've noticed anything, or you sort of feel like like fashion should be addressing this at all. You know, I think it's so tricky. Like, I definitely don't think that fashion brands should start incorporating like Ozempic body, Ozempic face into their marketing. That just doesn't, especially because those terms feel so shamey.

9:36And I think that like it's easy because a lot of the people, you know, we see in the public eye are celebrities, maybe celebrities that haven't fully like owned up to taking GLP-1s. And I feel like that causes a lot of like tension and frustration, but like the vast majority of people taking GLP-1s are just normal people like the consumers that are marketing to. So I definitely don't think adopting any sort of like shamey terms in marketing is a good way to do it. But I do think that brands need to reflect the reality that this is something that consumers are dealing with. And for a lot of consumers, it's a change that's happening in their lives.

10:11But I think they just need to be very delicate about how they do it, which is tricky. And I think something they're definitely still figuring out.

10:17Sheena Butler-Young: Well, both of you sort of got after this brand opportunity moment, which is that consumers need it, right? You don't have to come out and say, oh, Zempic face, Zempic celebrity, GLP one body, but you can meet them where they are with solutions. And one of the interesting things that I found in reporting this story is that the brands that were finding success, we're not approaching it from the perspective that we're going to fix something, that this is where you are right now. This may not be where you are next month. This isn't where you were the month before, but we're here to meet you where you are and not describe it as a problem or even a before and after like your before was flawed and now you're perfect.

10:52Sheena Butler-Young: Like it's more of whatever you need, we got you. So I one of the examples was this intimates company Soma that I interviewed a couple executives over there and they relaunched this bra called the Top Fill Bra that they launched, I believe, about a decade ago. And it was mostly geared towards new moms, pregnant women, women that were seeing changes in their breast because of breastfeeding or hormonal or something else. And they relaunched it for this consumer now because one Native Americans have used Ozempic and they're losing as a result to Brennan's point, like women are losing tissue and density in their breast.

11:30Sheena Butler-Young: I want to ask you, Diana, what do you think about an approach like that? The approach of not just saying, you know, something's wrong or right, but let me meet you where you are and designing for fluctuation. Yeah. I mean, I'm a fan of it. I'm generally just a fan of when brands like speak to, you know, with some, obviously this is a product for women, but like speak to their customer and speak to the women they're trying to sell to and actually not just speak to them, but listen to them and take into account, you know, what's going on in their lives. What are they searching for? You know, Soma is a brand, I think that clearly like they make products for women.

12:02It's less about selling like an aspirational lifestyle and more about creating products that like exactly, like you said, meet women where they are. So for me, I think that this feels very on brand for them. It feels very fitting. And I think it feels like a smart way to capitalize. I don't know if capitalize is the right way to say it, but to, you know, respond to the changes that the GLP One Rise, you know, are bringing to our society and bringing to women's lives and men's lives too. But obviously in this, in this case, women, but without shaming, without, you know, like doing anything cringy about, you know, goal weights and that sort of thing.

12:40And really just making it about like, OK, your life has changed. Your body has changed. Like, let's let's meet you where you are. And I think that's a really smart way to do it in terms of listening to the customers, actually providing them a real solution and not, you know, putting it under any sort of banner of shame or anything like that.

12:58Sheena Butler-Young: Very true. Brennan, same question. You mentioned earlier that there is a beauty opportunity. There is a customer whose face is different, just like a woman who's shopping Soma now. Her boobs are different. Are you seeing beauty brands respond in this way? Are they being not so direct, but perhaps you have lost some tissue density in your face, and maybe you consider this Botox or this other facial treatment? How are they engaging with this conversation, and what's going well? Yeah, what's interesting is that a lot of beauty brands have been engaging it kind of head-on. I'm thinking of Lancôme, which is, of course, L 'Oreal's big premium beauty label.

13:34It just came out with a cream earlier this year that has these kind of skin longevity claims, but it also has claims specifically for GLP-1 users, like that it increases skin firmness, which is something that people experience, a kind of loss of laxity. There's also this skincare brand, Maylease, which does a lot of body care products, and they have been riding this GLP-1 boom with these products that endeavor to kind of tighten and tone the body, you know, which is another thing that kind of, yeah, tackles this like skin laxity. So you see a lot of brands really coming out and saying, you know, these are products for this particular customer.

14:12What I think is interesting is that this, you know, this idea of a fluctuating, of kind of acknowledging a changing body is, you know, to my ear, quite progressive in a lot of ways, right? Like, I'm thinking of, there was a somewhat recent interview with Rihanna, where she said, she said something like, I have the pleasure of a fluctuating body type, which is like a really like gorgeous way to put it. But it's like, true, you know, you can feel beautiful in a bigger body, you can feel beautiful in a smaller body. And a lot of us will go through lives, you know, in both bodies or in different versions of our body.

14:44And with GLP-1s, you know, you have a lot of people who want to take them for life, you know, you remember this started as an injectable medicine are really caught on as an injectable medicine. So a lot of the people that I'd spoken to who are using these, you know, weekly injections were like, I'm a lifer, I like the way this medicine makes me feel I like the way that makes me look like I'm going to keep taking it. And now that you have these oral pills, I think that have hit the market this year, like the oral WEG OV, these are kind of becoming, you know, like the standard, sort of superseding the injections, as I think we all knew that they would.

15:17But they also make them very easy to just kind of like start taking and stop taking. So it's possible that we're just going to continue to see more and more people fluctuating in their weight. And so I think it's quite forward thinking for a brand, you know, a fashion brand to accommodate for that changing body.

15:32Sheena Butler-Young: And speaking of forward thinking, and I want to talk about something that was received as not so forward thinking. There was a big headline a couple months ago in the Wall Street Journal around the bridal industry. It's another fascinating space where bodies are very much centered. And it has a long history of women well before GLP-1s. A lot of people have a goal of being thinner by their wedding day. We'll call the thing the thing. But Wall Street Journal reported on the fact that some brides were being asked to sign waivers ahead of their wedding day. I'll be very precise here because I think it's gotten sort of lost in translation what the waivers were about.

16:07Sheena Butler-Young: So women have been losing significant amounts of weight on GLP-1s ahead of their wedding. And so they're buying dresses smaller in anticipation of being thinner, maybe six months from now or two months from now. So the waivers are meant for these boutiques to protect themselves. You come in and you're a size 10 today and you buy a size four, but you're banking on that fitting you three months from now. It's on you. Diana, I think it goes without saying how people responded to that headline. But when you hear that, does that strike you as a reasonable business response or a sign that retailers are maybe struggling with this GLP one era, that there's a problem here?

16:45Yeah. You know, I understand why they've done it, but I think it's definitely a sign that they're struggling to keep up. And I feel like the bridal space especially is like particularly vulnerable to this. Like you said, Sheena, there's obviously a long history of fluctuating weight around, around weddings. And then also just bridal gowns are, they're complex to make and people shop for them six months out and, And, you know, your size can change a lot in six months. And obviously there's alterations and all that sort of thing. So, yeah, I think that it definitely is a sign of that struggle. I don't feel like that's a great way to make customers feel, you know, I but I get it.

17:23Like I get that. I think that the bridal industry especially is probably just dealing with a whole different, you know, pace of weight loss and how these how quickly these things can happen and change. So to me, it feels sort of like a, I don't know, like a temporary, I don't know if solve is the right way to say it, but like a temporary measure. But I think that everybody's going to have to change this, particularly maybe the bridal industry in terms of how they, you know, sort of meet customers where they are, how they do that will be interesting to see, because like I said, making wedding dresses is very, is a complex and it's more complex than, you know, just making a basic white t-shirt and, you know, lots of alterations involved and such.

18:00But yeah, I definitely think that this is a sign that they're struggling to keep up.

18:05Sheena Butler-Young: It sounds like a stopgap more than a solve. And my story, I spoke to David Sprydal, their CEO, Kelly Cook, and they actually took an opposite approach. They said, you know, we're willing to absorb the risk ourselves. So they introduced this thing called a fit guarantee. And it meant that if your body changes or it means that if your body changes, they'll give you alteration options. They can swap the size or in some cases you can replace the dress entirely. Now, they're offering that guarantee for free, but I'm betting there's some offsetting costs, like if you have to pay for alterations and that kind of thing.

18:35Sheena Butler-Young: The thing that I feel that's interesting about the opposite approach of that is it's almost symbolic when you ask someone to sign that your body will or won't change. There's something very interesting that I think people are debating about on social media around like this might be a body autonomy conversation too. Like who gets to decide what's good or what's not good or how much control you have over fluctuation? And Brandon, what do you make of that part of the conversation? I mean, this is a particularly tricky part of a tricky conversation for all of the reasons that we've laid out. I remember also talking to doctors kind of in the earlier days of people reporting on Ozempic or semaglutide, you know, one of the main injectable GLP-1s.

19:18And so many doctors kind of cautioning against this being the type of thing that like a bride would take before her wedding day for like a kind of short term weight loss, you know, effect. It's it's kind of counter to how these drugs operate. You know, they operate over time. You know, you really, really have to take them for a long time and make kind of significant shifts in your lifestyle that are not always conducive to to doing while you're planning a wedding. Right. You have to kind of overhaul your fitness routine. You have to overhaul your diet and all of these things. These drugs are really used for sort of a long-term transformation.

19:54And so I can understand completely why a brand or a retailer like David's Bridal would need to kind of ensure this fit guarantee. It seems to me like it would be for the bride's peace of mind over anything, which is, of course, valuable for customer experience. But these drugs are not temporarily taken, right? And I don't think any of these brands are specifically calling out like GLP-1 related transformations in kind of rolling out some of these initiatives. But I think that there's something a little bit dangerous about somehow legitimizing the kind of, you know, transformation that one imagines that they might need before their wedding day.

20:38Sheena Butler-Young: No, it's very true. I think you're getting after sort of the thornier thing we talked about earlier, which is that we're not going to be as fashion brands or beauty brands prescriptive about how you use or don't use these things or your own bodily autonomy or your own medical sovereignty that we're here to provide the solution at the end. And some brands do it well and some don't. Like I think people have argued that the ones making them sign the fit waiver seem like they're not doing it as great as the ones that are saying, whatever you need. If you need a different size, we don't care why you need it.

21:08Sheena Butler-Young: We'll give you the other size. Or if you've lost density in your breast because you've had a baby, because you've lost weight, we don't care. Here's a bra that works. I want to pivot back to the comment section on Instagram because I think it's the funniest part and most interesting part. But one more note on this, Diana. You know, fashion is obviously as interesting and alive as this industry is. It's built on very static systems. It's like things are ordered for a retailer. Things are ordered a year out. Brands make their garments on like fit molds that don't really change. How far out do you see us from being like, you know, getting more flexible as an industry around meeting demand or meeting fluctuation?

21:49Sheena Butler-Young: Are we getting any closer or is this like probably a long game? You know, I think it's a long game. Like I said earlier, like the volume of people experiencing weight loss right now is just so huge. And I do think it has really revived the conversation around fit, which obviously has always, always existed in the industry. But now I feel like people just feel like it's getting worse and nothing is consistent. But I like you said, I think that these strategies have been in place for a long time. I think it's tough to make, you know, industry wide change. It's even tough to make change at a particular brand.

22:21So I think, yes, this is opening up a new conversation. And, you know, from conversation, a lot of times can come action. But I certainly don't think it's going to be a change that happens overnight or even, you know, in the next few months. I think that this is something that's going to take years to fully address. And to be honest, I'm not sure if we're ever going to fully get it. I think that this is something the industry has struggled with for a very long time. And, you know, hopefully this causes change. But, you know, I don't know. I'm not like completely holding my breath.

22:48Sheena Butler-Young: I mean, if you just go to the shopping mall and you go in one store and you get a size, you just walk over across the hallway to another store, you're going to be a whole different size. So that's an indication of how much inconsistency there is in this industry and probably how far we are from anything being fundamentally different. But I want to talk about the comment section again, which another reoccurring theme was what about plus-sized women in particular, but plus-sized people that they've been around for a long time. But it seems that the industry, from some people's perspective, is rallying around change right now because bodies are going in the thinner direction, not in the larger direction.

23:27Sheena Butler-Young: So one commenter wrote, why is this conversation only happening when people get slimmer? Women's bodies always fluctuate. If you go up a size, you need to buy new clothes. But if you go down a size, all of a sudden brands will change the way clothing works. So that's not really a complaint about GLP-1s. It's a critique of the industry's priorities. Brennan, does that criticism feel fair to you in 2026? Yeah, I think it absolutely feels fair. You know, I think that and, you know, on one hand, it's this is we live in a system where we are certainly right now sitting at the end of decades, if not centuries of this narrative that if you are in a bigger body and you want to participate in fashion, you have to make that body much, much smaller to participate in it.

24:16And we, you know, Diana made the point earlier that we had started to see like some actual change in like the 2010s. And then, and I do think that a lot of those body positivity gains have rolled back now that thinness is something that you can be prescribed essentially. And I think that it's now become a lot more, especially influencers that I've talked to who are plus size or who are fat and who want to do more content around wellness or want to just like show off a fitness journey or something or, you know, model some great like workout clothes, but kind of also need to stress to their audiences that they're not on GLP ones, you know, that that would be kind of a symbol of mistrust for them to turn around from these people who have supported them.

25:01and then suddenly, you know, want this transformation so that they can look more mainstream. It's something that a lot of people are challenged with. At the same time, I, you know, there are many, you know, plus size influencers or plus size people who want to lose weight for any reason, you know, and that's like they're right. You know, we talk about body autonomy. You know, if you want to change your body, you can. And now it's never been easier, I think, with these drugs. So, but you're right. It's easier in a kind of one way direction. And it's hard to not see any of this as the fashion industry's excuse to champion thinness once again, if that makes sense.

25:44Sheena Butler-Young: Of course it does. Diana, is this a conversation about sizing or is this a conversation about fashion's longstanding obsession or relationship with thinness? Yeah, I mean, I think that just the two are like inextricably linked. Like, yes, I guess on the surface, it's about sizing, but like you can't talk about what's going on and not talk about, you know, fashion's history of champion thinness, you know, excluding people in bodies that didn't, you know, fit a very certain specific mold. And I think that that, yeah, this feeling now that, OK, maybe now fashion might be willing to make change because the change is, you know, getting smaller and also feeling like all that, you know, the body positivity talk from the 2010s.

26:24You know, we've either a regressed from that or be people never meant it in the first place. I think people are getting a lot of flashbacks to the 2000s and, you know, times when just ultra thinness was really championed. And, you know, I do think the conversation around it is different. I think people are calling it out and they feel more, you know, able to do so. We're not quite in the thick of that, like tabloid culture anymore. But yeah, I think it's they're inextricably linked. You cannot separate the two. And, you know, I don't think it's a coincidence that fashion is willing to make change at a time when people are getting thinner.

26:59And obviously, maybe that's also like an easier, you know, clearly brands have struggled when it comes to offering extended sizing. Maybe it's easier to adapt to smaller sizes or that sort of thing, you know, just from a pure logistical perspective. But I think it does just bring up a lot of uncomfortable feelings for a lot of people who have historically felt maybe alienated by the industry or, you know, things like that.

27:22Sheena Butler-Young: So we've spoken about, you know, the brand opportunity, all of the criticism and an interesting fodder on Instagram about it five years from now. Do you think we'll look back on this moment and we'll actually, this will feel like this was a shifting moment and something got fundamentally different or just another chapter and we'll be probably back where we were in the grocery store with my mom buying Women's World and Marie Osborne being down 30 pounds every six months. thank you so much for bringing up uh women's world magazine because i it's also yeah indelible in in the brain like those yeah the supermarket checkout and there's like so many cover lines that you like can't even read and it's always like how to lose like 90 pounds in three weeks by eating just like beans and toast i feel like i do think that there is a big we are in the midst of a of a big shift probably at the beginning of a of a big shift to me this feels like the beginning of this kind of era of body modification, right?

28:25Where pharmaceuticals can be used to essentially shape the body of your dreams. We certainly see it in like the biohacking and longevity world. But, you know, these GLP-1s are a very, very popular form of these injectable peptides that now so many people are taking for like all sorts of reasons. And they're completely unregulated. In places like the US, they're kind of being actively deregulated so that more people can get their hands on them. And you see, you know, peptides for weight loss, but you also see peptides for, you know, for hormone replacement, peptides for muscle building, peptides to look tanner, you know, all of these things.

29:03I think that we're just going to see more and more. I wouldn't be surprised if in five years, each one of us here had some sort of like, like short stack or whatever that we were using. But and with GLP-1s in particular, you know, We're at this moment right now where we talk about Ozempic a lot, but Ozempic is really kind of first generation. That was like semaglutide. That was one agonist, right? It was basically one peptide. So then you have Munjaro, which has two agonists in it, and that is the world leader now in GLP-1s. I know a lot of people who are on red atrutide, which has three agonists in it.

29:42That's the one that's in late state trials. And Eli Lilly is going to probably bring it to market next year. But you can get it right now, you know, from if you know where to look. And I just think that with the speed at which we're iterating with these medicines and each of them is improving and giving 18 % weight loss, 22 % weight loss. I think that red atratide is like a quarter of your weight gone. You know, I think that this is just going to become more and more urgent. And the shift is going to spill out into other areas of a sort of body transformation. But I think we'll still be talking about it.

30:16Sheena Butler-Young: Well, when I get my stack, Brennan, I'm going to get my recommendations from you. Whatever peptides, I'll go to you first. Diana, any last words on five years from now where we'll be? Yeah, I mean, I really would hesitate to call this just another chapter in, you know, fashion chasing thinness. Like, yes, I think it is an example of that. But this just feels like Brennan said. It's just such more of a pivotal, meaningful moment. GLP ones have just ushered in like such a huge era of change in this space. So are we going to look back at this as the moment where everything changed? Maybe. I think probably more likely than not.

30:51And, you know, how that what that change shakes out to be, I think, is still to be determined, particularly in its impact on the fashion industry. But definitely a big moment of change. Awesome.

31:02Sheena Butler-Young: I think that is a great note to end on. a great moment of change, a big moment of change. Diana, Brennan, thank you so much for joining us. Welcome. Thanks for having me. Thank you so much. If today's discussion left you wanting more, the full story is linked in the episode notes. And while you're there, check out Brennan's coverage of beauty and wellness, as well as Diana's coverage of all things retail and marketing. These and other stories are available to VOF professional subscribers only at businessoffashion.com. You've been listening to The Debrief, produced and edited by Olivia Davies and Angel Nemov.

31:34Sheena Butler-Young: I'm Sheena Butler-Young. Be sure to follow us wherever you get your podcasts. We'll see you next week.

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