Glenn Martens: ‘Social Media Has Turned Fashion into the Hunger Games’

0:04Hi, this is Imran Ahmed, founder and CEO of the Business of Fashion. Welcome to the BOF podcast. It's Friday, September 19th. Belgian designer Glenn Martins grew up in Bruges, studied in Antwerp, and cut his teeth in Paris, where he learned about the fashion business from the ground up, from pattern cutting to PR. At Y Project, he made the best of resource constraints, creating modular, shape-shifting designs for women and men. At Diesel, he has reset the brand around its original founding spirit of joy, cheekiness, and denim, replacing model codes with a clear manifesto and democratic shows that speak to a global community.

0:49Now, Glenn is balancing creative director roles at Diesel with another creative director role at Maison Margiela. And he argues that in this pivotal season, with a slew of designer debuts, fashion should make people happy while resisting the dopamine culture of instant judgment. We just are consuming visuals and visuals and visuals and we don't really have the time to go deep into the clothes, the storytelling, the construction, where it comes from. It just needs to be like a hit. So it's quite, it gets a bit more superficial. In 2025, a creative director has to be a socialite, has to be the king of social media, posts, whatever.

1:30There's so many more things that all my colleagues and me have to do, which is outside of that runway. And within the last of six months, you have to own this whole new team or whatever, and then also like explode the internet with a show. I think that's it's hard. I think I've had a lot of phone calls with people which are stressing. The beauty of fashion is that it's a process and it's a build up. And I think this is not happening at one show. This is happening in three, four, five shows. So we need to respect that and celebrate that. This week on the BOF podcast, I sit down with Glenn to talk about learning every job in the studio, to preview his spring-summer 2026 Diesel show in Milan next week, and to understand the pressure and possibility of this high-stakes fashion season.

2:18Here's Glenn Martins on the BOF podcast. Glenn Martins, welcome to the BOF podcast. Hello, everyone. Nice to be here. Thank you for having me. Nice to be here with you, too. I know it's super busy at the moment for you. Yeah, I'm in Diesel Show Prep, so it's the first of the multiple shows we'll have this season. But we are, for a very strange reason, extremely on time. I mean, it's my second day of style art and I kind of have my lineup ready-ish. So this is a perfect moment to speak. I'm glad we found some time. It's always a privilege to talk to someone before their show or in the middle of their final preparations.

3:03And we'll get to the show a bit later. But as always here on the BOF podcast, I want to share a little bit first about your journey into our industry. this great industry called fashion, which is going through so much change at the moment. And when I was reading a bit about you today, I didn't know you were born in Bruges or you were raised in Bruges. Raised? Yeah, raised. I'm born in Germany. I'm born in Germany, but my family is completely from Belgium, Bruges. My dad was working in Germany, actually in a military camp, you know, like after the Second World War, a lot of the allies had base camps in the country.

3:44My dad was a judge there for all those Belgian military people, which would have maybe done something bad. So they were still being judged by the Belgian law. And my mother was a nurse in a military hospital, and I'm born in that hospital. But I moved to Bruges back to home at the age of three and grew up there. Okay. I mean, for people who don't know Bruges, I've only visited once. Pretty small place. Tell us a little bit about what it's like to grow up in that beautiful place. I mean, it's like Disneyland. It's like reality is completely not the truth. I mean, also, we were living downtown the city.

4:24For people who know Brut, it's actually a medieval little pearl in Flanders. It was, let's say, like in the 1400s, 1500s, a bit like the metropole of Europe. It was a very, very rich city, a little bit like a Manhattan kind of vibe of Europe. But then it died because the harbor going into the city sanded. So basically it fell asleep. We call it the sleeping beauty because there was no Renaissance, no Baroque, no Industrial Revolution. The whole city-state is kind of exactly how it was. So you really walk around in Cinderella land. It's not like everything is like Gothic and churches and cathedrals and decorations.

5:01and it's the reality which definitely covers you intensively. And I remember my very first holidays I did outside of Bruges because we didn't travel that much as a child. So I remember at 18 I went to London with my best friend, my very first trip outside of this kind of world. And I was so shocked that cities were not actually, not everything was always so perfectly aligned and symbiose and gorgeous. So I was kind of disgusted, actually, from what's happened outside of the brooch. But yeah, it's amazing. It's really amazing because it's so protected and you're just surrounded by beauty. So when you're growing up in a place like that, that's kind of stuck in a different era and is really, you know, this pearl of beauty, like how do you think that impacted you as a young creative person?

5:55I mean, you don't become the most edgy person. I really was a geek, that's for sure. I was very much into classic music and history and classic beauty. So I wasn't very much aware of what was happening, of all the excitement inside of the world. You're quite traditional, actually. You come out quite classic. And I do remember that in the very beginning of my creative excursions, trying to figure out what my tone of voice was, I would always actually reconnect with classic beauty in the Western standards. I remember my Anthrop Academy collections were very pristine. It was all done in muslin and white muslin and beautiful wool.

6:35And it was all very rich and fancy. Of course, conceptual, but it was definitely a reflection of that kind of beauty that I grew up in. So it's only like later that I kind of started understanding that excitement can be found in something less expected. That puts it very lightly, Glenn, because like no one would call you traditional or classic now. So was it at the Academy or after the Academy or where was it that you began to discover the edgier side of Glenn Martins? I mean definitely after the academy to be honest I think and during the academy also I was still very I mean I really love this gorgeousness and beauty obviously I mean when you're in Anthropocademy you're between like a whole bunch of international people coming from all over the world and of course you're all fashion students so we all go for the most crazy expression because we want to be unique and gorgeous and I also have my moment wearing like leather hose and combined with like golden leather boots and I don't know.

7:37So we definitely, I mean, that's the whole beauty of an academy that you experiment. But I think within my craft, I was still a bit more, I wouldn't say boring, but the aesthetic was quite classic. I think at a certain point when I was in Paris, because I moved straight to Paris after graduation, I started working for Jean-Paul Gaultier. Then I worked for like a brand in Istanbul, actually. I was living in Istanbul for a year. and I started discovering different facets of art and fashion because, again, I would say I went from Bruch to first Gans because I did interior design first, interior architecture.

8:14Then I went to Antrop. But I always stayed in kind of bubbles. I was never really – I mean, even though the Antrop Academy is an eclectic kind of community of lots of crazy people, we just live together and we work together. So, yeah, I think it's in that process of my first years of working that I saw all the beauty and the colors of the world and I started becoming very bored of gorgeousness. And I was a bit like, boom, let's try to do something else to spice my life up. And then I had my own brand for a second, for three seasons, and I think that's where I started pushing it a bit. You're clearly seen as a boundary breaker now in terms of your aesthetics, and we'll talk a little bit about Fly Project and Diesel and the other bigger jobs that you've had since later.

9:05But in this current moment in fashion, a lot of people are observing that the edge or the kind of raw creativity that kind of made and continues, I'd argue, makes fashion tick has been lost. I'd love to hear your thoughts about why we need that kind of unexpected aesthetic in our industry? I mean, I don't know if we all need it. I know I need it personally, and I think maybe you need it also because you really get excited about it. I will agree, of course, that fashion has become much more consumption-driven, so it has to be easier to be understood, I guess. And since it needs to be easier to be understood, maybe through social media, because we just are consuming visuals and visuals and visuals, and we don't really have the time to go deep into the clothes, the storytelling, the construction, where it comes from.

10:02It just needs to be like a hit. So it gets a bit more superficial. And that's the reality, of course, that we have been seeing in the last 10 years. I know that from my point of view, I do understand the power of social media and the power of the hits, but I didn't fall in love with fashion for that reason. I mean, as a creative director, of course, you need to play your 2025 roles. and I think Diesel works very well on that. I'm sure also at Magella did these things at Y Project also. And I love it and engage it because I think it's part of our reality and we have to obviously evolve. You can't be stuck in the past.

10:38But there's definitely a big part of me which is that kind of old-fashioned designer which loves to deep dive into storytelling and the construction, which likes to challenge constructions and try to find new ways how to create beauty and new ways how to create clothes because that is the person who I am. And I'm very easily bored. I'm very, I need to change myself. I love experimentation and that makes me happy. And I guess for some people, that's the same. For other people, maybe less. But I do think there's a run like this though. I think there's a, I see a lot of creatives, younger creatives reconnecting with that.

11:17I think this whole logomania is disappearing. This whole like one-hit-one-the-door disappearing. I mean, also when I go to schools and everything for juries, I feel that the integrity is being revived. I'm glad to hear that. So when you think back to those three seasons you did under your own brand, is there a specific look or show or moment that stands out as something that kind of was a seminal point for you in terms of like discovering that edge? Imran, I mean, being a young independent designer in Paris without any backing of the family or anything, like working freelance everywhere to make some money to put into your collection, having interns cutting all the patents on your bed because I was living in like 30 square meters, I didn't enjoy it.

12:07I have no idea. Actually, I tried to completely forget that part because it was a nightmare. It's always like asking everybody to do things for free, working seven days a week, cooking soup because you don't pay your interest so cooking for lunch like making these big massive lunches so at least you can give that to the kids so I don't know really the big highlights there there was one highlight I could say is maybe that I did a show and that's also still a bit linked of course to where I come from but I did like a presentation in la chapelle expiatoire de Louis XVI which is basically a chapel which is a national monument in the middle of Paris but close to public and it's a chapel which is built on the site where Louis XVI were buried after their decapitation.

12:54And it's a very mystic venue because it's really to celebrate their life and their death. And I managed to, I don't know how, I found a loophole in Paris to actually do a presentation there, like really between those tombs. And it was very emotional. But for the rest, I tried to forget those three seasons. they were too traumatizing. But what did you learn from that time, Glenn? Because it's often in those moments where you have to be super scrappy, super enterprising, inspire other people to work with you for almost nothing, maybe a bowl of soup. Like, what did you learn from that time? I mean, you definitely learned to become a creative director.

13:35I think being a good creative director, I hope I'm a good one. I don't get too many complaints, but I think to be that, you need to understand what people's jobs are. So you have a massive team and a whole democracy of people working around you doing specific crafts. And I think to understand what it is to do production, to understand what it is to guide the studio, to understand what it is to be a PR or to sell or to be a merchandiser, because you've done all those jobs yourself all alone. I think it's a really big plus point because you really are able to collaborate with your teams and to understand what they're going through.

14:08And the communication gets much easier. And you learn also to fight. You learn to bite into something and let it loose. And that, I think, is one of the key things you need to have as a designer. How do you know when to keep clenching or biting and kind of fighting and when to compromise? I mean, I always fight. But the thing is, I think it's often really a discussion at start. You know, I clenched into my creativity because that's, of course, my moments on the runway. and of course what we have on the runway is not always a reflection that we have in the store and that is fine because of course you need to also create this dream and you also want to create a story and a world which doesn't always need to have a commercial value.

14:55So there I will really like push myself but then of course when the moment, that moment of runway kind of loosens up, it's really about collaborating and understanding each other, understanding each other's needs and helping each other. I mean helping the teams to reach their goals with the needs that they have, but of course not losing the artistic direction that I've said from the beginning. So to still stay integral to, of course, the tone of voice of the brand. Yeah. I mean, you're so good at that, Glenn, because your shows are these genuinely immersive experiences for people. You know, anyone who has attended a Diesel show or a Y Project show or your most recent Margiela show, the first one that was in July, you managed to transport people somewhere.

15:47And I think a lot of companies have stopped using the runway that way. The runway has just basically become a commercial lineup of product. Every model has a bag and every piece of merchandise available is somehow styled into the collection. So people are like overweight with so much stuff. that the creativity is sometimes lost. Yeah, it's often product. But thank you very much. I mean, yeah, I think the whole beauty of fashion is that we have to make people happy. That's the main reason why the industry exists. Even if it's like lifestyle, like a very sexy, well-fitted pair of denim empowers the person wearing it.

16:27There's not a big fashion story value to it, but the garment is there to make that person happy and joyful and empowered in their everyday life. And then there's different moments where it's about dreaming away and I'm very much aware that when I work at Margello or at diesel runway shows, I'm proposing clothes that are not going to be reachable or accessible to so many people because by heart they're very expensive. But I do know that a lot of people are dreaming through it because they're watching it forever and ever again on YouTube or whatever and they see the show and it's entertainment. It's like, as I was saying, it's again going maybe back to Disneyland.

17:01I love fairy tales. But it's all there to make people happy and to make people enjoy life And I think that's, in my opinion, one of the most beautiful things of fashion and what I try to give them. So, yeah, I wouldn't be happy with just a product. A product shoes. But I'm very happy with a very basic product. I think a really nice, sexy shirt that everybody and the people like to wear. I think it's good. It's great. Or a very comfortable sweater. Yeah, we need both. Yeah, we need both. We'll be right back with more on the BOF podcast.

17:40Before we talk about Diesel, I want to talk about Y Project, because that was such a defining era in your career. And I think a lot of the industry first came to know you through the work you did at Y Project. And I remember maybe about a year ago, Glenn, maybe a year and a half ago, you and I had a coffee at the Hotel Regina in Paris. I don't know if you remember. And we sat down. And it was at that time when you were grappling with figuring out what was going to happen with Y Project. And you really helped to really place that brand on the map. I mean, I think so many people thought you were the founder of that brand, even though you weren't.

18:21You know, so many people associate you with that brand and you played such a big part in building it from the ground up into kind of a really notable and important part of the fashion calendar. But talk a little bit about your experience there, because you joined the business, you helped to build it up. And then commercially, it just didn't work. I mean, what did you take away from that experience? I mean, it was one of the most beautiful moments in my life, for sure. And it's definitely also because I had a very good friend of mine, Gilles Lalouf, which was the founding father, the CEO of the brand, as a CEO for the majority of the spirits.

18:54And Jill passed away two years ago from a cancer, which then evolved to the whole story of why Y-Project dissolved. But the amazing thing of that moment was that Jill was a CEO. He had never worked in fashion before. So he had a Harvard master into business or whatever. And he had companies which were more focused on informatics and pharmaceutics. So somehow he managed to launch Y-Project, which our original founder, creative director, Johan Sirfati, the Y-Project. and then Johan passed away. Sorry, it was all a bit strange. Very strange brand. So basically, Johan and Jill launched it. Johan passed away after two years.

19:34Then I became the creative director and basically we were two juniors there. Like a junior CEO, a junior creative director which had no idea what to do with the brand. And that was amazing because that's why we did all this kind of crazy design because nobody was really, we didn't have a roadmap. I never really had worked for a long term in a big company. And we just had fun and we were experimenting and making mistakes and embracing the mistakes. And we had no money. And that's why, for example, all this versatility of the garments came from because we had an idea of presenting men and women in the same season, but there was, of course, no budget at all to create two collections.

20:12Also, no designers on our team were big enough. So I invented twists, or I was kind of imagining twists, how to change the garments enough that you could actually, during men's wear, show the exact same piece as women's wear, but then style them completely different because there were wires in there and then it was standing like this or snap buttons and it became a whole different jacket. So through this, of course, scarcity of budget or resources, we managed to do something quite unique and that became also the language of the brand, like versatility. It was really amazing and we were growing and growing.

20:47Of course, the thing is that it was never like a multi-billing company. because first start, the clothes were quite complicated. So you sometimes had to find, I mean, you could have needed manuals to wear it. But also because, yeah, I think Gilles was not a real fashion CEO. So we didn't know where to invest. We always were in delays for delivery. The deliveries were horrible, always like months too late. And that's the core thing, of course. You need to make sure your clothes reach the sales floor at a good time so people can buy into it. they have their six months on the sales floor to be bought and to make sure you can have a good contact with your retailers and wholesalers.

21:30And that's where we kind of felt a bit. In any kind of way, I think we had a lot of very, very passionate people around and a very passionate community. The community was really obsessed by Wired Project. And we had a lot of potential. We had a new CEO coming in after Gilles passing. But the story was basically that I think it was a very emotional brand for the brother of Gilles, which was the president, or became the president after the passing of Gilles. And I was too emotional for him to have the brand still alive after the death of his brother. So he decided to close it. And that's how we finished Y-Project.

22:06But I'm still, I mean, this is really one of, I mean, I became who I am thanks to this brand. And the second best part of it is that when I left the company, my whole team, the whole Y-Project team, gathered money together to buy me a dog. as a goodbye present. So that came out of it. And I'm a dog daddy and I'm extremely obsessed by my dog. And I will for the coming 15 years think of Y Project every morning when I clean the poo on the ground.

22:37There's beauty in shit. There's beauty in shit. But I mean that seriously because some of the constraints that you're mentioning, like the challenges you face, the lack of resources, the lack of experience. Sometimes there's real beauty that comes out of those moments, no? Always. If you don't have all the resources, if you don't have all the budgets, that's when sometimes magical things can be created. That's the same thing with Diesel, for example. Diesel is not a brand which has a heritage of pattern making. And I mean, it's a lifestyle brand which is doing denim and T-shirts and very, quite essential fits.

23:16and obviously me coming from a brand like Y Project or whatever, where it's all about construction and manipulation, construction, there was a bit of a clinch there, you know, because it was not my forte. Or they couldn't do my forte. They couldn't really follow me in that. And then that is where I decided to focus everything on treatments and graphics and things that I've never done before. Y Project was never known for a strain before. I mean, we did a bit of prints and things like that, but that was not the core of our brand. And out of lack of resources in that area, we managed to be extremely successful brands diesel for all of those treatments and new manipulations on 2d and layering and peeling things off and whatever and correlating it and burning it and so it's true i think like uh creativity comes from from there it's really like it's one of the most sexy parts well let's spend a bit of time on diesel because you know it couldn't be more different than y project not just because the codes were different And, you know, you had to focus on other elements of creativity to kind of discover and define what you wanted.

24:22But when you when you arrived there, so many of us who grew up in the 1990s, like we remember diesel in the 90s as this like super provocative, desirable brand with those like really like edgy advertisements and like all of the like denim treatments and the kind of distressing and all of that. I mean, there's quite a rich vein of stuff to explore there when you arrive, even though the brand isn't that old. So when you first got there, what did you decide to kind of protect or keep? What did you decide to kind of amplify or emphasize? And what did you decide to abolish and get rid of? Well, I obviously joined Diesel for the same reasons that you just said.

25:13I think the brand's DNA and what we remember from the 90s, 2000s was so rich and gorgeous and sexy that it sounded like a lot of fun. It's like this is going to be a good moment. Obviously, when I arrived at Diesel, it was not exactly anymore the reflection of those 2000s. It was a healthy brand, meaning the turnover was there. But I had a feeling it was definitely going through midlife crisis. I was there for 40 years. And I think it happens to so many brands and to people also. I mean, also to me, I mean, I'm also 40. I mean, at a certain point, you may be a bit like tired of looking at yourself and you try to actually reinvent yourself and be a whole new person.

25:52And I think Diesel had gone through a period of processes, which were that. So it was quite interesting because I arrived at Diesel and I asked all my heads off and also all my designers in the middle of COVID, we were like, what is Diesel for you? Make a mood board or whatever. Every single person had a very different, a total different creativity around the brand. And I was like, okay, there is definitely something problematic, very big problematic at diesel. Because, I mean, of course, somebody arrived in 2015 and then the brand, the CEO was going that direction. And then somebody had arrived in 2008 and it was in that direction.

26:26So they all were hired in different moments of the brand and nobody actually spoke the same language. So my biggest thing I did was actually resetting the whole thing and actually trying to remember everybody why diesel was big for the first place. And I think that's something that is really important to never forget is that the success of a brand is the core reason why the brand is there. And we should always connect to that and stay close to that. That's something Francesca Bellettini told me, the new CEO of Gucci, when she was my mentor, got mother after I won the Andama Award. You know, when you win this French award, the Andama Award, you get a mentor for a year.

27:01And Francesca was my mentor. And I was obviously at Y Project and I was asking her, like, Francesca, what do we do? I mean, why project is so complicated? The clothes are so twisted and difficult to wear. Should I simplify it? Should I go into this more minimal vibes and Logomania and why project? She was like, no, never. She was like, you really have to. I mean, you've been celebrated. You won this award. People want you for that. So you have to stay true to your founding values. So that's what I did, literally. Great CEO, Francesca. So that's what I did at Diesel. I brought back the focus on what the brand was.

27:37and it is basically for successful living. It's a denim brand, which was always about joy, about cheekiness, about being very loud and straightforward, about talking about issues, because those cheeky campaigns were all often discussing social problems in the 2000s, but with joy and happiness. And we went there, and then we also, of course, the whole study of the archive, you know, because denim brands, you have so many denim brands in the world, and they mostly are actually quite connected to more Americana styles. Diesel wasn't like that, actually. The 2000s was more like the lines were round, that were more poppy, were more MTV days.

28:11So I tried to bring back again those hero cut lines into fundamental archival pieces or like wardrobe pieces. So I was very much building a brand Bible again, like redefining the brand Bible, all based on the archive to be, all based on the founding values. Also, I wrote a very big manifesto, which I sent to the whole group about our tone of voice, who are we talking to, what is our social values that we're standing for. And voila. And since then, actually, to be honest, since then, it's almost five years I'm here. And October will be my fifth birthday. We just keep on reconnecting with that brand Bible I've built in the beginning and that manifesto built in the beginning.

28:53And we just celebrate it and make it bigger and try to reinvent it and push it further. Because obviously, it takes time. I mean, like it's a really big brand. We have 500 stores. We have, it's also extremely unique in the industry because we are so diverse in our markets, meaning that we have moments, of course, of fashion, alternative to fashion, like we are on Fashion Week, but then we are also really lifestyle. But then we also do denim bed and butter, like really just sexy denim on T-shirts. So we are talking to so many. We're actually basically talking to everybody. Just every single person in the world could in theory be a detailed person, but we do that with one message and with one collection.

29:31So it's quite unique. And voila. So that's what I did. I did throw away something quite important, which was quite painful.

29:42I think I know you, maybe you know, but like the institutional logo was a Mohican. It was a Mohican. And Renzo Ross has it tattooed on his shoulder. The Mohican was not originally Mohican when he was made in the 80s. It was actually a punk from East London. And I have all the files. You know, all the files were there and the design were there. It's really like a punk from East London, which I think fits very well with the brands. But sadly, in the 2000s, 2010s, one of the CEOs, the other few CEOs decided that punk was too complicated and wanted to join into the hype of Levi's and Lee talking about Americana.

30:17So they turned the marketing into Mohican. And it's very complicated in 2020 to have the face of a murdered tribe. So I decided to take that away. And that was, of course, very complicated and very painful. But I mean, that's what it is. It's not my mistake. That's some strange marketing has been done in the past. And I brought, I replaced it with Ovaldi. So I brought in Ovaldi. I designed a new logo. That's on the belts now too, right? Ovaldi is basically everywhere. I mean, it's really everywhere in this one, yeah. For some reason, I think about it on the belts. I guess, you know, you bring up Renzo, Renzo Rosso.

30:59The founder. The founder of the brand, the kind of the genius, basically, who kind of came up with this thing. What's it like, you know, you have this like, towering figure associated with the brand. And you're trying to reinvent, or like, maybe reestablish or reenergize the brand. But he's also there, like, you have to have a conversation with the team, of course, but like, how much of a dialogue do you have with Renzo about the journey you're doing? taking diesel on but i mean renzo is a genius and first of all it's it's actually a pleasure to have the founding father of the brand quite close to you you know it's um it's like having your fairy godmother always somewhere flying around you and i have to say also i think all the i was talking about the founding values for successful living all what the brand stands for this is literally a one-to-one reflection of renzo he is that person um the thing is of course i'm i'm the very first creative director of diesel at large they never had a creative director which actually is in charge of every single item that carries the logo and he gave it to me coming from my project you know like i was not at all uh trained for being at the helm of such a big company which is doing underwear and living and uh gadgets and trunk shows or whatever so i don't know this guy is really quite magic because i mean i think he looked into my eyes and then he felt we had a connection and I have to say that we do have I think I'm quite similar to Ren so I think I see life in the very same way and I think I have that cheekiness also in me and obviously in the very beginning he needs to know that you understand what the brand is about you need to know that you love the brand as much as you do as he does so there's a lot of the starting year of diesel was definitely weekly dinners with him and discussing everything I wanted to do and where I wanted to go.

32:50But on the other hand, he wasn't the CEO in those days. And he kind of had to let me. In fact, if I managed to, well, he kind of had to let me do what I wanted to do, to be honest. He also let me do what I wanted to do. But I think he also kind of saw that I was very passionate. I mean, it's a brand you fall in love with, really, for some kind of reason, everybody gets very addicted to diesel when you work here. I guess it's maybe also the ethos and isn't this fun factor and life is the best and sense drink and party but work hard so i don't know it went quite easily i mean i also i don't think he did he started coming either to be honest i think he expected me to be a frankly creative writer to bring a bit of spice into his ready to wear but he didn't see the 360 turnaround that i've managed to do in a very first year and also i didn't see it coming so far it all happened quite magically and i don't understand either so much I do understand I know what we did but I wasn't expecting it to catch so fast and to be so successful so it's really lovely to work with him and I think it's a cheeky funny guy and I have to say also I was saying this not so long ago I think Renzo of course is the person who he is and he has so many companies but he's a very unique person meaning that he's quite alone in this whole world because he's the owner of all these kind of companies he has But in my situation at Diesel, it's a bit similar, to be honest.

34:14I mean, as a creative director, you're also, you're reviewing all the different departments. You're reviewing all the different collections and different categories. And you take in the problems of every single person because you're aware of all these problems. And obviously marketing has problems, but they can talk in their team, but they don't have to take care of the problems of merchandising. But I overview all of this together and it gets quite lonely at moments. it can be quite lonely because you really like there's nobody who understands all the shit you're actually going through because it's all shit management and then having a Renzo next to you which completely understands exactly what you're going through makes it feel a little bit less lonely so it's kind of it's quite joyful to have a CEO because Renzo now is an interim CEO of Diesel and it's quite nice to, I mean, but even if he's not a CEO, I mean, I will always have him somewhere next to me.

35:07He's always there for you. Yeah, I could always call him. A big part of the transformation that you've undertaken at Diesel has, at least for industry people, has come through the shows that you've done. You know, these like massive installations of inflatables and a graffiti park and a denim mountain. And first of all, like what role do you think fashion shows play for Diesel now? We talked about what's on the runway, but I'm also interested in the overall experience of it. And how do you ensure that that big installation doesn't distract from the ultimate goal, which is to focus on the clothes?

35:54I mean, it might distract sometimes. That's part of the deal. I'm also not very known to be a minimalist. I'm quite pure. I'm very conceptually pure, but I'm quite opulent. That might come from Bruges, where everything is rich and beautiful and gorgeous. So I like to create this kind of world. The thing is that I think a fashion show for us is very important because it accelerates the awareness of the brand and the brand direction you want to go to because, of course, it's a moment that everybody looks at, that everybody is together, and you can convey your message really fast and intense, and you can speed up the process of change.

36:32And you can also speed up the process of, yeah, Again, making the statements, what do you stand for? What do you want to talk about? So, Diesel and Tierry did not need business-wise a run-way show because a run-way show collection is a fraction of our turnover. But we really wanted to do it because it would speed up the process of awareness. And I think this brand is talking about democracy. It's actually, by heart, a lifestyle brand. It's really lifestyle, yeah. So, it talks about the community, about everybody, as I was saying earlier. It doesn't matter how which you are or which sexuality you have, where you come from, where you're born.

37:08You can be part of diesel as long as you have a successful living as an ethos that you enjoy live and you want to nail it. So that's kind of what we did with the fashion show. And of course, that was a whole challenge because easily when you like in Milan Fashion Week, you easily turn into, I mean, the classic way of doing a show is, of course, making beautiful sets, make people dream a bit and have gorgeous models on there you know like in the beginning all our models diesel none of them were models i really wanted them to reflect i wanted them not to be influencers either but i wanted them to all be busy with something that's why for example the very first girl we've ever seen on a diesel runway or for my collection was a schneider which is a transgender woman because i think that's important to celebrate women and all women that they can be.

37:57That's why I really wanted to always talk about the community and talk about that process of acceptance and the process of like, we have to create a bigger world because that's really what the lifestyle brand can do. I mean, again, I think one of the reasons why I took diesel also is because, you know, like when you work in luxury, Margiela or Versace or Chanel or whatever, it's great. It's fantastic. It's beautiful, but you will always speak to a certain part of the population. When you work with Diesel, you speak to so many more people. So it's true that during my COVID period, I was, of course, also when I was in COVID, I was, of course, triggering the idea of taking another brand.

38:36And I was more thinking about luxury, classic luxury, French luxury. And then when Renzo came with Diesel, we all went through an existential crisis in COVID, of course. And that's when I was a bit like, OK, maybe I want to do something more. I mean, I love fashion. I love clothes. and I love the artistry and the conceptualization of garments, but maybe I want to do something more. And that's where Diesel was for me the best platform. And that's what we try to do now also every day. So that means exactly, as I was saying, like we are loud brands. We're always going to be loud, but like let's try to, within the fashion week on Milan, do a run ratio week actually has something more to say than just cute clothes.

39:13So that's why, for example. And thank God for that. Thank God for that. Not bad. And I think it's mainly because we did this one show one day. And it was quite interesting for me is because I heard from Ariana Rosso, which is the wife of Renzo, that HIV positivity is growing with kids, Gen Z, basically, because they don't, of course, didn't live the whole 90s pandemic. And I mean, I, when I was 18, I didn't dare to have sex at all because, I mean, I thought I was going to die in a second because we were literally like so traumatized. People were so scared. yeah they were so scared and i think they don't have that that and it's actually growing quite intensely with kids so i was like okay this is my responsibility at diesel which is love by jenzette to talk about this so i did a show with like a mountain of condoms in the backdrop and then all those condoms like millions of condoms were sent to all the diesel stores worldwide and everybody could get free condoms and it was a way of discussing it and talking about it and taking and making sure that they we speed up their awareness so there's a lot of this kind of things that we try to do to always include, maybe to bring a good message or to include the community.

40:19As you were saying, like last, last show was one of the most biggest shows ever, but it was also very lovely because we had recycled an installation from three years ago, which was the biggest Guinness book of records, blow up doll and then the world. And so the biggest blow up doll was there. And we had cut it into pieces, sent it to the seven parts of the world and had more than 1000. I think, I don't know how many there were kids in the street coming to tag it and they could all tag whatever they wanted to tag and it was basically quite beautiful because the art art direction of that show was done by everybody in the world and all of that was like the biggest common street art piece ever made in theory guinness book of record didn't sign it off because it was too complicated to cancel the numbers of people but you know what was like the sheer scale was impressive but the thing that i took away from that show glenn was like you'd sent that installation in seven parts all over the world and it came back and it was so united yeah it was such a collective experience because you got to see that there is this kind of culture of graffiti everywhere it's a universal language really and you brought it all together and it really it really struck home for me i agree with you i mean we did give them color guidelines okay i didn't know that we did give them like we gave them like color guide and they were only allowed to use this like that 15 different colors they could work with but it's true that it felt very um uniform you couldn't really see what came from china or what came from cairo i wasn't really yeah you couldn't really see it and it was also very impressive that there was a lot of political uh messages in there we actually had to to had to spray some off because we would have some situations of course it's still a public moment but um the kids are busy with what is happening with the world.

42:07And they're fighting for the rights, and they're fighting for love, and they're fighting for love globally. And it was amazing to see that. And so it was very emotional. It was a really lovely concept. So what can we expect next week, Glenn? What can you tell me now? It's again a whole thing. Well, of course, I mean, I don't make my life easier. I mean, I wish I would have just done a nice set. I wish my brand Diesel at least would have been about a nice beautiful set colors and ha ha ha good music and then so of course I put the bar quite high so obviously after this very immersive show we had last season I was a bit like okay let's do something completely different because that's also again who I am as I was saying earlier I think I'm a bit ADD I get bored quite fast and I want to change things and I want to test things so this time we decided to actually not do to completely kill the elitistry of the show and to even though of course we love all of you guys and you will have your moment to see the collection because you have to do your work of course you have to see the clothes and study it and critic me or celebrate me or whatever it's up to you we'll see that next week but I didn't want it to be an exclusive experience so the lounge of that collection will be in the streets of Milan.

43:24I'm not doing a classic fashion show it's going to be like three hours and a half egg hunt so the models will be hidden all over the city in big crystal eggs and all over the city but really also in all the places we love so meaning bars, clubs sex clubs, gay bars, churches like again showing the whole diversity of the town and everybody can participate in looking and doing this little Pokemon Go moment so everybody can go and find those eggs you have to register it on diesel.com and then it's all by when you find them you scan them and there's of course prizes to be won because the first five people who find all of the eggs they can choose whatever look they want to have from the runway and we will make them to measure by Christmas for them.

44:12So fully measured and the second batch of people can go to diesel stores worldwide and have a total full look without any budget of clothes that they want to have. And then there's more presents to find. But I think the main thing is what I really like is that it's really including everybody. of course you can also do the egg hunt without registering but then you don't win prizes but also all over the city there's going to be like bars and there's like one little hub on one square, I forgot the name where there's going to be free drinks for everybody free food for everybody, music we make it fun I think it's kind of cute it's another way again to really again not forget what Francesca Bellettini would have said to me don't forget the reason why diesel became big, she didn't say about diesel but what you would have said is like you are a lifestyle brand you are a democracy at the heart you're talking to to the community and this is why you're strong so include them bring them together and celebrate life so I think I think it'll be fun and for me I mean I'm very sad also because I think the collection is really gorgeous and as I said I'm quite traditional so I love a good classic fashion show and work together to the edge of the moment and then throw these models on the runway and then cry and sweat or whatever so we will do that little sexy moment and also the clothes look really good.

45:27So of course, like classic fashion show with all the hay sets, it's quite nice. And they're worthy to be on a fashion show, but I'm also quite happy that I'm going to be with all of the company, with all the friends of Diesel. We're going to like with Negroni, walk around the city, do the egg hunt ourselves, meet people, talk to people, enjoy. And voila, and then next season, something completely different again. I guess next season, back to a classic show because I mean, my team is dying. Yeah, well, that sounds amazing. and I look forward to experiencing it.

46:00We'll be right back with more on the BOF podcast.

46:08It'd be remiss of me not to talk to you a little bit about sharing your time now across two brands. So like at some point, Renzo came to you again and said, hey, I have this other brand, Margiela, or you went to him and said, hey, you have this other brand, Margiela, and how are you splitting your time across? Those are two really important brands. I know you did this when you were at Y Project, but the scale of what you're talking about is quite different now. Yeah, it's a different scale for sure. I mean, so, and specifically because, of course, the first year at the helm of a brand is, of course, the most intense one because you have to find, again, your tone of voice.

46:46How do you want to approach with the heritage and how do you want to translate it? and it's of course even more challenging and stressful because it's Maison fucking Magella it's like one of the most loved houses in the industry I think every single designer regardless if they're more classic or not classic they love Maison Magella and they love Martin and because Martin was definitely one of those figures which has forever and ever changed the way how we look at fashion and it's so it's extremely humbling and extremely stressful to actually be part of that story and not to continue that story and respect them and of course the second one is john galliano which is the biggest couturier that we have in our lifetime now so it's i have two people in front of me which i respect the uttermost which now i'm following up to so it's very stressful just already for that soul factor because i don't want to disappoint any of them but I think I'm going for it and also because I love both of them and I love Maison Magella I think it's really I definitely am one of those children of the Magella generation I think it's quite clear in every single work I've done I think Martin is more than designer he's really is cool and as I was saying I think yeah he's really is cool I mean conceptualization of fashion concept goes first a whole part of my colleagues of my age look at fashion in a similar away because of Martin.

48:11So yeah, I need to try to find my own way in there. So it's a lot of work. The amazing thing is that it's an amazing house. We have an amazing CEO, Gatane Chuto, an amazing team. So all of this is quite settled. So it's not that I have to somewhere, somehow clean up anything. Also, the amazing thing is that what John has done and what everybody has done at the house of Marjala is that they always stayed in T.E.G.E. to the brand value. So there's also no miscommunication. We all know what the brand stands for. So yeah, I just need to make sure that I do a good creative direction job. It's a different challenge from the one that you face when you arrive at Diesel.

48:51I guess just to conclude, you know, we're on the cusp of what is quite a monumental season for fashion. You know, I've been talking to a lot of industry people about it, but as a designer, How do you feel about it? And you were just talking now about having these two big jobs as being quite stressful. It's a lot of pressure, a lot of expectation everyone's placing on all these designers right now, you know? Yeah. No, that's true. And I think that's really where you have your point because the thing is that we are in 2025, so you're not getting judged by professionals only. We're not getting judged by you who understands fashion and where the house in which it comes from because you're getting judged by 18-year-old kids on TikTok, which has millions of followers, and which then is going to be telling that.

49:39I had that actually with my couture show, Martino's show at Margiela. I had one of the biggest TikTokers, which was giving shit about the fact that the Margiela show, that everybody was veiled. And it's not cool to veiled a woman today, but the bands were also veiled over my rare miles. But most of them, I mean, poor kid has no understanding of what the brand is about. but he does have millions of likes and hits and people who are screaming about it and it spreads the world. So I think that's one of the social media and this kind of thing, because, you know, by at large, everybody can be a fashion critique.

50:15And those things can actually have a very negative turn on your turnover, can have a negative impact on your turnover. But, so yeah, and that is really where it becomes a bit painful, because I think it is, because of this whole hayside, it becomes the Hunger Games. I think I'm very blessed to be frankly honest that I had my debut in July with the Couture and I feel it was very, very well received. So I'm extremely blessed that all of this happened. And I'm not one of them who has to do my debut in September because it's really, I mean, I think, again, we should really remember that fashion is about enjoying and by celebrating and fun and empowering people.

50:52And it should start from the designer because it should be fun. it should be joyful and I'm not sure the situation is giving a lot of support to any of my colleagues to actually really enjoy the moment because you know you're going to get slaughtered and they have to know if somebody comes in and all your amazing work process you have been done is going to be killed by sometimes really irrelevant people which have which actually have no idea what they stand for so it's a little bit I mean I'm also going to watch it with popcorn to be honest I'm also it's also entertaining it's of course it's of course now Hollywood somewhere somehow like a popcorn moment.

51:26But I'm going to be happy. I think all of us are going to be happy when we're in next season and this special is going to be gone and we can actually really focus on our work and really do our work and really study what is our turn of voice, what we want to say, not think about the hits because we have to do hits because that's what social media wants now. So hopefully everybody is making, is trying to enjoy this very complicated September. I hope so. I mean, we did this story a few months back. I don't know if you saw it, like a really smart story that Mark Bain on our team wrote about how fashion has changed because of dopamine culture, because of these like instant takes that everything, you know, like everything that we were used to about fashion from the past, everything's just moving so much quicker.

52:15The way information travels has changed. The way marketing happens has changed. Even the way designs, as you point out, the way designs are judged has changed. So you're not the first designer to use the analogy of Hunger Games with me. And I think at a time like this, what's most important is that we just give everyone just time and space to really hone their vision. Like no vision is defined by a single show. And so like, let's give everyone some space and time to kind of establish all of the things that you were talking about. But that takes time. Also, we are 2025. A creative director has to be a socialite, has to be the king of social media, posts, whatever.

53:00There's so many more things that all my colleagues and me have to do, which is outside of that runway. And within the last of six months, you have to own this whole new team or whatever. And then also like explode the internet with a show. I think it's hard. I think I'm not sure. I mean, I'm fine, to be honest, because I just did it. But I've had a lot of phone calls with people which are stressing. So, yeah, let's all be nice and lovely. And it's true, as you said, I mean, like a tone of voice, the beauty of fashion, it's a process and it's a buildup. And I think this is not happening at one show.

53:35This is happening in three, four, five shows. So we need to respect that and celebrate that. Absolutely. Okay, well, Glenn, I'm going to let you go and get back to your lineup. I'm always grateful for the time you and I spend together. Thank you for chatting. It's super nice to talk to you also and to all your team. And I hope to have a Negroni with you next week in the streets of Milan and look for some of those eggs. I will love that. I will love that. I will love that. No, hopefully we will share each other next week. Have a lovely recovery of your little colds and things like this and be all fresh and ready for the quest of alcohol.

54:15All right. Okay. Have a good day. Bye. Thank you so much for having me. Bye-bye. The BOF podcast is edited and produced by Olivia Davies and Eric Bria.