How Willa Bennett Is Reimagining Magazines for a Social-First Generation

0:04Hi, this is Imran Ahmed, founder and CEO of the Business of Fashion. Welcome to the BOF podcast. It's Friday, January 16th. Willa Bennett is the editor-in-chief of Cosmopolitan and Seventeen, two of the most influential legacy media brands now being reimagined for a social-first creator-driven era. Willa grew up in Los Angeles, trained as a ballerina and studied journalism at Sarah Lawrence, before building a standout media career at Bustle Digital Group, GQ, and High Snobiety. Along the way, she's helped to redefine how youth culture is covered, not by chasing everything, but by sharpening point of view, taste, and authority.

0:49This week on the BOF podcast, Willa and I talk about what young audiences actually want from media today, why curation matters more than ever, and how she's refocusing Cosmo and Seventeen, creatively, culturally, and commercially for the next generation. This generation actually has access to so much online, but that also means that there is a real hunger for curation and real curation, not performative curation and real taste. Here's Willa Bennett on the BOF podcast. Willa Bennett, welcome to the BOF podcast. Thank you. I'm very, very excited to be here. Love the pod. Glad you like the pod. Now you're on the pod.

1:37Very cool. We have a lot to discuss. When you and I met at the BOF 500 Gala, you were very excited about your inclusion in our annual index. And as I said to you on the day, it was so well-deserved because you've had such an incredible career. And the more I read about you in preparing for this interview, the more I appreciated just how much you've grown and contributed to the wonderful, challenging world of fashion media that both you and I know very, very well. But before we get into all of the dynamics around how challenging the fashion media space is today, we need to start with your entree into this world and like your early creative impulses growing up in LA, training as a ballerina, studying journalism at Sarah Lawrence.

2:37Like talk a little bit about your formative years and how they led you to take an interest in the world of media. Yes. That sounds amazing. I was so happy to finally meet you. I've also watched your work and I, you know, when I was, when I was working at High Snobiety, I always thought BOF was always doing such, such, such an incredible job covering the landscape and keeping up with it and its ups and downs. So yeah, I was very excited to meet you, very excited to be there. And that room is just so surreal. You like walk in and you're like, wow, there's people from like designers like Connor who have had such an incredible year, who now is one of my really good friends to like Alice Kasani casually walking through.

3:21And I think the juxtapositions of all these different voices. It's just there's no other room like it. So I was very excited to be there. I told Simone Rocha that I would love for her to make my wedding dress one day. So I might get a wedding dress out of it. So very, very, very cool. Amazing. Well, you never know. You never know. Membership has its privileges, as they say, right? Incredible. Yes. Yeah. But tell us about LA and growing up. Yeah. Okay. So I, yeah, I grew up in Los Angeles, as you eloquently said. And, um, I think what was interesting about it is like, I'm still close with a lot of my best friends there, but I was really the one in my friends group who was really curious about fashion.

4:04And it wasn't even like at that point in my life, something I thought I would maybe do professionally because I didn't really know what that meant. And I knew I couldn't sew, and I knew I couldn't, I didn't want to go into marketing. So I saw these magazines and I was like, wow, it really combines my love of fashion and my curiosity for fashion with writing. And I think as I grew up and went to college, I realized that like I really did have this obsession with men's fashion that I didn't really know what to do with. And so sometimes, you know, in my journalism classes, it would send me, you know, all the way to the city from Sarah Lawrence to like interview a menswear designer for like three hours and write 10 pages on.

4:44And then I would like look at like GQ and Esquire and the men's fashion publications at that time, honestly, high snobiety, business and fashion. And I would be like, where are these long profiles going? And there was this like disconnect for me at Sarah Lawrence that I became really, really, really vocal about. And I was like, hey, like the type of journalism you're teaching me, I'm not actually seeing in the industry that I'm about to enter. Why do you think that disconnect existed? Is it this whole ivory tower academia, like disconnected from reality thing? Or is it something else? I felt like in the specific classes I was in the specific program I was in two things like one they really like did foster curiosity so they would really be like you should fight back like what's missing so they were really like making you think outside what they were teaching us but also at the same time social media was blowing up and none of these magazines were taking Instagram quite as seriously and I loved fashion magazines I had them in my dorm room I actually remember like like always having them in my dorm room and people being like, these still exist?

5:49Like, you still buy these? And I was just so obsessed with them. Like to me, it was like so important who was on the cover of a magazine. And when a new editor took over, I would like run to, it was like a magazine store, CVS, honestly, in near my college town and like go and buy them. And that was so fascinating to me. And my friends were like, how do you know who the editor is? And it was just something, it was like sport for me. I was just so, I was so in it. I was so fascinated by it. I was so curious, but it actually drove me for my senior thesis to go to my advisor and basically proposed that I would go to a middle school for a month and talk to them about magazines.

6:22And so I really like spent a month of my senior year in college in this middle school and just pretending to be a teenager nonetheless. And I really talked to them about Teen Vogue, about Glossier, these brands at the time that were so interesting, High Snobiety, all these brands and be like, where are you reaching them? And that's kind of where I was drawn to like Snapchat, Instagram, and obviously like YouTube. I mean, it's still huge. A lot of these platforms are still huge, but at the time I was really drawn to them. And that is kind of what led me in my first job at 17 Magazine to really be like, Hey, to my boss, like, can I post the cover on Instagram?

6:59And she was like, yeah, sure. Like no one's going to, no one's going to see it. They weren't thinking about that. I mean, just wasn't the priority. There weren't advertisers there yet. You can monetize it. It was truly just like something they let an entry-level person do because why not? What year was that? So I graduated in 2013. So it was 2013. Wow. I got my job two weeks after graduation from a cold email. And my day job at 17 was to really put in articles in the CMS. I spent most of my days like truly in the CMS called Patty at the time. And I would copy and paste articles. and I basically got that down to a science so I could do it between like, it was like a nine to six.

7:40And then I would go meet all the fashion editors basically. And I had this love for fashion. So I was so curious about it. And it was really when I started to see the industry, I think as a college student, you have a lot of ideas of what fashion is and what the industry's like, but you don't really understand it until you really just go in head first. And I even remember like some of my first fashion shows, I was like blown away. I was like, wow, like this is not what I imagined because it is so different in those rooms. And I really give that first role at Seventeen a lot of credit for just being able to let me grow.

8:15And because Seventeen is such a nimble brand and it was such a small team, it was like everyone needed help. So they were like so honored to like bring me to a fashion show or show me inside the fashion closet. It wasn't really precious, which I think more and more it kind of has had to be. But yeah, it was a different time. So what surprised you the most about how things were on the inside versus how you perceived them from the outside? I think that people were on their phone so much, genuinely. I think like I had dreamed about being in those rooms for so long that when I got there, I was like, why is no one talking to each other?

8:54Why is everyone glued to their phones? And like, keep in mind, this was like the height of influencers. So everyone was trying to get those influencers to the show. So like, I remember like walking around being like, why is everyone looking at their phones and not talking to each other? And then the fact that like the designer wasn't wandering about before the show also continued to surprise me, like as I became, you know, more indebted and like into the industry and understood, it was like, I was just like, wait, you're, it felt like surprising to me that people were just there to take content.

9:25And this is coming from someone who like, love social media more than life itself, like that still surprises me. And I, now I've gone to quite a few shows and, you know, I think about moments in my life that like will forever be so special. Like Dries' last show that recently happened. And I looked around and like truly no one was on their phone. So I think it does happen. And I remember like tearing up in that moment because, you know, I was looking around and I was like, wow, this is such an end of an era. it was just this moment where I was like wow like I made it to this Dries show like it was so so so special but it was so interesting it was like the kind of opposite where it felt so real and it felt so like you know were you there when they dropped the disco ball everyone gasped like and that's I remember that silver yeah like flaking beautiful thing on the floor that just got more and more destroyed as people walk.

10:20I mean, it was, it was beautiful. Okay. But back to 17. Yes. So you're in this world, you know, you're this like freshly minted person. Like, what was the moment where you realized, like, was there a story you wrote while you were there or something that you did that was like, ah, yeah, like, this is my thing. This is going to be my career. I've, you know, I broke in and like, what was the moment where you're like, okay, this is, this is what I'm going to do. I'm not going to lie. It probably like took a while. Like it was, it was not instant. I wanted to be in the world, but it wasn't like I saw a path necessarily.

10:58And I, I believed in it so deeply, but I don't know. I feel like every year, like every headline is like the media industry is so disrupted. And like when the first time that happens to you as like a college grad, like you've graduated like a year ago, you're like, oh my God, this is the worst year ever to be graduating. And I think that's so relatable for people graduating right now, where it feels like there's like so few jobs, but it took me some time. I'm not going to lie. I think it was really, you know, from there I went to Bustle Digital Group and I, I really like dived into brands like Elite Daily and Bustle and Nylon.

11:29And then from there I went to GQ and I think it was really GQ where I got my voice and things started to click. I think I was able to take my like love and understanding of social media and fashion, but also combine it with like this audience. And also my first love was men's fashion. So I felt like I really like understood how to talk about it. And I had a deep respect for it that felt so exciting. But, you know, I think like if I really think to my career of like moments where I'm like, this makes sense, I think was putting Billie Eilish on my first cover of High Snob, like that moment to me, Like the morning that went live and I watched this new world discover high snobiety through the story I wrote about her wearing menswear.

12:17I think that that's one where I was like, OK, like I have something to say and it's so clear. And then I think to Brenda Saga, Macaulay Culkin on my first cover of Cosmo, that to me, too, were like it was almost not about celebrity. and it was really about their story as being in a relationship and putting their love on the cover at this publication that has historically stood for love. I think more it's like specific editorials stand out more than maybe like a moment. And I'm sure you relate to this, like running brands, like, you know, every day has its ups and downs, but there are editorials where you're like, that was right for this brand.

12:54You know, it's interesting that you called out the Billie Eilish moment because that sounded like it was really personal for you as well, because you've identified as a queer woman wearing, in quotation marks, men's clothes, because we believe that clothing shouldn't be gendered. But for the sake of this conversation, tell us about how that whole idea came together. Why and why was it so meaningful for you? It was so intuitive. I think a lot of great editorials like in retrospect they're always like the most intuitive and I I often feel this way about magazine covers like you know there's it's sometimes tempting to put like the most famous person on the cover but it's like really not about that anymore it's really hard to get through and for Billie I mean obviously she has such huge rich fandom but what she stands for and what she's been able to do in terms of like personal style is just so unique and I think unmatched.

13:53So yeah, I was the editor of High Snob. I was really looking at their past covers. I think that brand is such an important platform for young people and the way that company works, like it stands for something so unique in fashion. And I really wanted to position it as a continued youth culture platform. And Billie was so intuitive. So I wrote a letter. I had written about her a couple of times in the past. I had some sort of relationship with her where I really admired her style and we had talked about it and what was so cool and like you literally can't make this up it's like I showed up to the shoot that day and we were wearing the same thing which I think is crazy and every time I tell you wearing it was just like a menswear out it was like literally like black and white but it was like to a t like striped shirt like every it was so interesting to me and that's actually I started the piece was like not only you know was I I felt so vulnerable because any first cover is so vulnerable, but it was like she completely got it.

14:51She like drove herself to set. She came to a run through the night before. She did a fitting. Like she was so committed and so interested in what it meant for someone like her to be a face of menswear. But more than like the response, I think what signaled to me was successful about that editorial specifically is we put her in Simone Rocha and Matt Henson styled it. And one of the looks that like we ended up on was the Simone Rocha look. And she wore Simone Rocha to the Met Gala. And when I have run into her since, she said it was because of that high snobiety cover. And to me, that is more of a metric of success than anything else.

15:29Because it was like we were able to pair this brand with someone like her. And, you know, I hope that helps Simone Rocha's business. But I also hope it just put her in a different conversation and was really about them both matching their personal style. So as you've alluded to, you've had this quite prolific career for someone so young, you know, following 17 and then Bustle and GQ and High Snobiety and now Full Circle, back at 17 and Cosmo. I'm curious because you've mentioned the word youth culture already once or twice in this conversation. It's something that you hear a lot of magazines, media companies talk about, Days talks about youth culture and HighSnowID talks about youth culture and ID talks about youth culture.

16:20I'm curious, as someone who's worked at a few of these different publications, what do you think young people are looking for in media now? When so much of their lives are dominated by social media, by their interactions with their friends directly on things like Snapchat, that what's the role of a media publication in the lives of like social media first young people? Yeah, I think something I really talk about a lot with my team is like, we can't be everything for everyone. Like this generation actually has access to so much online, but that also means that like there is a real hunger for curation and real curation, not performative curation and real taste.

17:05And I think that has been such a guiding force for Cosmo for so long. I mean, I even think back to building our 60s anniversary issue, which had Margaret Qualley on the cover in this Versace dress. And like, I think a lot of people really understood the new direction of Cosmo because they were like, wow, like we are honoring our legacy, but we also are a place that young people can trust when it comes to love and relationships. And we've tried to make that very, very, very clear this year. And then in terms of fashion, I think what I am constantly inspired by with young people is the way that they will still engage with luxury, but they'll also do that with, you know, baggy jeans from Depop at the same time.

17:46And I think that juxtaposition just creatively is so interesting to me and something that we really try to echo here. So, you know, I think about like Brenda and Mac on the cover, there was an Hermes blanket, there was a Bodie sweater, but there also was an American Apparel crop top. And that to me feels reminiscent or a closer version where we're still aspirational. Obviously, I wouldn't say every 17-year-old has an Hermes blanket, but if they're going to buy that Hermes blanket, it doesn't mean that they're going to be in head-to-toe Hermes too. And that's just something I really see more and more from young people when I'm walking around or I have two young sisters and when I talk to their friends and, you know, really investigate their lives too.

18:27But it's just, I think more and more young people are really looking for tastemakers in that way. And I don't think it's influencers personally. Do you think, because there's quite a, like a big question in the luxury market right now about what the relationship is between big luxury brands and young people. You know, I was reading something today, I forget where, talking about how the new Gucci, Demna's Gucci, is resonating with young people and the way that Coach is really resonating with young people now. And Coach is obviously positioned differently in the market than Gucci. But I don't know.

19:06I get the feeling that, I don't know. I have a 15-year-old niece and a 13-year-old nephew, and I spent some time with them over Christmas. It doesn't even come up. My sister cares about it. But do you think that new generation of young people that are reading 17 and reading Cosmo and some of these other publications, do you think they actually even care about luxury brands? I think there always is going to be smaller communities of people. It won't be for everyone. Luxury isn't for everyone, but I think there's always going to be people. I think Coach is actually such an incredible example. Like that tabby bag, I feel like really resonates with younger demographics and something I continue to see.

19:49And I think that's because like obviously of the Bella Hadid moment where she's wearing it, but they also have been very strategic with their marketing around that product. And I think that's such a great. The Summer I Turn Pretty and all of that stuff too, right? Yeah, it takes young people really seriously. It's really, yeah, Summer I Turn Pretty is a great example. Like that show does have a young cult following and working with Lola, the star of it was such a way into that demographic. we did a editorial in partnership with coach around like our z stars which is basically like up and coming gen zers it's a partnership with uta next gen and we we really look at gen z curators and we did a a big spread with this k-pop group baby monster that we identified really early on was someone we wanted to cover editorially and i think what was so interesting in that editorial is on the list was Nicolandia from Love Island.

20:45And it started a whole wave on X, basically talking about like the significance of a brand like Coach paying attention to stars on Love Island. And some young people even went so far as like to Photoshop fake ads. And I think when you're paying attention to young people and putting in the right way, I think there is stuff to be gained. I think new Gucci has also really interesting because I think, you know, there is a very clear community. And I think people want to be part of that. It's cool. And so I think if nothing else for our readers at Cosmo, I think we want to also create and cultivate that community.

21:24And hopefully it's, you know, we put luxury items here and there and we work with luxury advertisers here and there, but they're coming to us because we can position it to this younger audience in a real way. Just now you're referring to influencers and you were saying that, you know maybe young people aren't as interested in influencers as they are in celebrity yeah i'm just wondering what like in the mix of all of these different voices that can influence a young person and like the way they think about and engage with luxury brands and media like what's the role of so-called legacy brands like cosmopolitan which as you said you know it's a 60-year-old media brand.

22:07This is not like a newfangled brand. Or a 17, which has been around for a long time as well. What's the role of these legacy media brands in the cacophony of voices that are available to young people today? Yeah, what I always say is we curate the influencers. Like, it's about having the right type of influencers. I mean, I think because we stand for love and relationships, it really makes sense to me that Al Cooper was on her cover at some point. Like that to me really makes sense. She speaks directly about this to a slightly different audience than Cosmo, but there's definitely some overlap.

22:45But, you know, then I think there's moments where like putting Dochi on the cover is so exciting because it's like she, we actually put her on the cover. We booked her right before she blew up on Tiny Desk and like, we were so obsessed with her. And so I think people can also come to Cosmo to like learn about new people and stay ahead of the curve. But I think there's a real need for young people to have some sort of like authoritative voice, whether that be in fashion or in their love lives. And I think that is something that Cosmo does do really well. And I think that is the purpose. I think I see more and more.

23:20I mean, there's headlines about, you know, these legacy brands having these comebacks. And I think a lot of it is when you lean into your legacy, but also reposition it for the next generation. And I think it's not about getting a bunch of influencers together in a room and calling in an event. I think it's really about curating the right people, the influencers that are both like relevant to your space, but also really show up in your brand and contribute. And maybe that's like a writer, maybe that's a stylist, but I think there's different ways in. That's so interesting that you say it starts with the authority because in a way, that's what magazines have always been about.

23:58Like when I used to like open details or GQ growing up, I mean, for me, they were like real curators. They were real, like they were informing me about things that, you know, someone growing up in Calgary, Canada, far away from like the big city. It just gave me a window into this world. I didn't have anyone to give me those kinds of recommendations. And in a way, I guess the rationale for magazines like, you know, 17 or Cosmo isn't so different. It's just that there's a lot more competition and a lot more noise. So it's about being signal versus noise. It's about being really, you know, authoritative and leaning into the legacy and authority of what your publication is about.

24:41Yeah. And like going back to what, like, why did I love Cosmo so much growing up? That was actually one of the first meetings we had here. One of my first weeks, we all sat in a room and we were like, why do we all love this brand? And let's return to that feeling and that initial instinct we all had when we discovered Cosmo when we were younger. And let's try to bring that back. And again, like I've said this so many times, like Cosmo didn't need a rebrand. Like this is the most powerful, one of the most powerful brands for young people historically. It was just really needed to refocus. And I think the last year and a half now have really been about refocusing, refining, infusing voice.

25:22I think Brandon Tan, who I hired, he was actually one of my first hires, has really did a fantastic job narrowing our fashion POV and both incorporating, you know, the way young people shop, but also emerging designers. I like to say we're a huge Gabe Gordon fan now because I'm finding that Gabe Gordon's making to a lot of shoots. Connor, who was on the BOF list, incredible year for him. He's had an absolutely incredible year, but that was someone we were really early on and was in many of our first shoots. So it's about the it's about both the Conners and also the Hermeses and the coaches and even like the Gants.

26:02And I think it's about all of it and cultivating it with real creation and thought.

26:11We'll be right back with more on the BOF podcast.

26:25so i mean let's talk a little bit about the media landscape because without being super doom and gloom about it and i totally agree with you that every year there's headlines saying the media industry is disrupted everything's falling apart but this feels like a particularly challenging moment, both with the rise of AI and like plummeting traffic to lots of websites, probably including Cosmo and 17, but also the rise of influencers and creators as these voices in the market. And also just a really challenging fashion market, you know, for advertisers and Like, how are you, as the leader of these media brands, how are you navigating all of this?

27:12I think the exciting part of it for us right now and just, like, as a consumer of magazines is, like, we're seeing, like, real editorials again. I feel like for a minute there and, you know, the different publications I was working at, too, were guilty of this. But, like, we all were chasing scale, scale, scale, scale, scale to no end. And a lot of them were successful. Some of them weren't. But now it's like we all get to really return to like the power of editorials and like what is the purpose and the goal of a magazine or an editorial or a photo shoot. And so that has been interesting. I even think like the last couple of magazine covers that have come out in the past couple of months have been like really experimental again.

27:57Bigger budgets, like just really, really they feel bigger. And I don't know. I think there's a direct correlation. Maybe this is like too extreme, but I think there is a direct correlation to like the pressure kind of being off traffic in a way. That being said, I feel very lucky because like Cosmo's traffic is pretty stable and we have pretty healthy people returning to the website. But I think what's exciting is like I come from social and social has been a huge priority for me. So it really has been about growing our social. I feel very lucky. We're like up 500 percent year over year just in views on Instagram alone.

28:34And like that prioritization of social has been really, really, really important and very crucial to our success even in the past year and a half. But at the same time, I mean, we're going to have to see. I think in the luxury market, we've seen so much change. I'm really excited for this year because I think most of the buzzy debuts are like settling down. And now it's like, can they actually sell products? And I'm very excited to watch that. I'm really excited to watch like which influencers who tapped and like what actually results in revenue. I have my guesses, but like, I'm just excited. And like, again, as someone who like loves watching this and it's my sport, I personally am like this year, I think will be really informative.

29:14Definitely. I mean, it's been really, really cool to start seeing the original ideas that we saw on runways in September and October start rolling into the store. Because like for me, the magic doesn't only come from the concept. It comes from how you translate that concept into something people can buy into. And totally in what sells. Yeah, exactly. And like, let's see what happens, you know, like that's a big part of what is going to make some of these debuts in quotation marks work or not work. What about your, like, how do you navigate the commercial editorial divide nowadays? days, you know, once upon a time, there was just like a very clear, you know, division between editorial and commercial.

29:58And like now we see a lot more integration, a lot more communication between those departments. Like how do you, how do you deal with that in your role? I think I have a very clear vision of like what Cosmo and Seventeen both are. And when there's commercial partners that come in and like elevate that and make it bigger, like I'm always thrilled. An example of that is this like coach partnership we did where it was like this list that we already wanted to do. Baby Monster, a group that we already wanted to shoot and just having them part of it made it so much bigger. And I think it's like, if anything, when they're right, they're right.

30:34Another example is like we worked with Elf on Blind Date. That was a video series where I'm blindfolded. I go on a blind date with a celebrity. I have to guess who it is in real time. and that was something I was really curious about in terms of like dating content in you on YouTube and video and podcasting and that was just something I was watching really closely and wanted to find my way into and then you know when a partner comes in and is equally interested and excited to build it with you that's incredible but I do still say no to advertisers if it's not a right fit it's not a right fit again like we are speaking to you so you get involved like you you still have the wherewithal veto rights, whatever you want to call it, to be able to be like, no, that's just not a good fit.

31:16Yeah, especially if it's something like an editorial project like Blind Date or Coach. Like those only worked because those brands were so like right for our brands. We cover Coach all the time. We love Coach. Our audience loves Coach. It just makes sense. But yeah, I think that would be really different with a different type of advertiser. so that part excites me I think also something I learned at High Snobiety is like how exciting it was to work with brands like again like I am a consumer of all these brands like I I am so curious and like I genuinely just love the industry and I think some of my favorite memories they were actually talking to David about how exciting like different brands and designers were and I will tell you now like Grace taking over Hermes is so cool and exciting like Like as a consumer, I have opinions.

32:06So like, if anything, like I want to talk to the brands. So that part doesn't scare me. And that part, if anything, is like one of the perks of the job. Like how cool that I can talk to Elf directly about what I'm seeing in the audiences and, you know, go back and forth. But yeah, that being said, like we won't do anything that's not right for the brand. And we have to be really honest about who we are because, I mean, there's a difference between like branded content that is not for that audience and real integration. And we're figuring out in real time, like what this means. And I obviously there are growing pains and there's, you know, things we're figuring out.

32:43But I personally think I hope to do more of that. I think it's so exciting. So imagine, Willa, you were a young journalism student at Sarah Lawrence studying today. and who knows, maybe they're still teaching them over there to write really long in-depth features. Who knows? I hope not. But what would you advise? Would you advise someone to go into the media industry now, given all the challenges? And if so, what would you advise them to do? How do you advise young people to kind of really prepare for a resilient long-term career in journalism? I tell everyone, and I would say this to a journalist major, use all the platforms now.

33:33Get on Substack, use your Instagram, use your Twitter. Use these ways to get your voice out and really cultivate your voice. Because I look at the people I follow just as a consumer myself and someone who pays attention to good writers or even just brands. I like distinct POVs. Why I also do follow someone. And I think as we figure out what this new era is like and the new challenges of like all the things you mentioned in fashion, but also journalism, I think it'll be even more important to have a very distinct point of view. I think Substack is so interesting. I mean, I'm like, obviously, I don't need to tell you this, but I don't know.

34:13I just think some of the writing on there, like sometimes I'm like, this needs an edit, but other times I'm like, how cool that this 17-year-old in Minnesota is like saying their POV on Demna's Gucci. Like that is so cool. And here I am reading it in New York. That I feel like I hadn't figured out how to do as a writer or someone who consumed content in college. Like I just didn't, I was like obsessed with LiveJournal and MySpace, but there was no way my posts were reaching an editor in New York. And I think that is so interesting to see. And so I would say use all your platforms. Yeah, for sure.

34:46I mean, I started writing BOF on a TypePad blog, which eventually became a WordPress blog. I mean, if BOF were starting today, it would probably start on Substack. Yeah. You know, that platform wasn't available to me back then. But like i agree with you like and the it's partly like get on all the platforms but it's partly just write write as much as you can create as much content as you can because it's it is one of those things that that 10 000 hours rule like the more you do it the better you become the more comfortable you become with it you find your your voice you know and i think the challenge with substack is really that there are literally millions and millions of substacks.

35:33And so to really, really stand out and succeed and build a long-term career, you need to do more than just get on all the platforms. You have to find a voice in from yourself that is really going to stand out from all the other stuff out there. And that's hard. Yeah, and do it regularly. But I will say the algorithm, I'm always impressed by how good it's getting on Substack. I think like even, I was speaking at a school the other day and I asked them at the end of class, I was like, so who's on Substack? Who's on Instagram? And they all raised their hand. And this one writer, which I thought was such an interesting take, was like, there's all these studies that say Gen Z doesn't read.

36:11But let me tell you, Substack, like because of like Substack going up, I'll tell you, like I am reading more than ever. And you can argue about your thoughts on that, but it did start this really interesting discussion among these college students of like writing journalism blog posts like that has had a resurgence and their words not mine like a lot of that is happening on Substack and I even noticed like after this conversation I'm sure I open my Substack on my phone and it will say something about Demna's Gucci because we brought it up three times it really is smart in like a scary way and so it's feeding me posts that are interesting for Cosmo And that to me is like just fascinating.

36:49Okay. So a sub stack is listening. They're listening to everything. It's pretty scary, honestly. You know what? I asked a like techie person about why that feels like that happens sometimes. And they said it's actually not anyone listening. It's just that the algorithm has really understood you. Really? So they're not listening. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's a whole conversation for another time. But I have to say algorithms just generally are getting smarter and smarter. I mean, my thing is all heated rivalry right now. And like that just happened pretty quickly. But I think that even is such a cool story and something so cool that happened in culture recently because, you know, it was this book.

37:34It was the script that like everyone initially said no to. And then in the final hour, HBO took it and barely added much to it from based on my knowledge of that industry, which I will say is limited. I don't know too much about what goes on at HBO, but that blew up. Well, you're missing a really important element here. Smut. Because actually it was a Canadian streaming network, Crave, that actually greenlit it. And HBO bought it once it was already done. Yeah. And that to me is so interesting because that is like the power of like, get your story out there. Just get it made. And it found its audience.

38:13And even watching how the fashion industry has embraced both of them. It's been so interesting. Like they went straight to a Chanel dinner was their first appearance in fashion. When was the last time a celebrity that came up through young people in this way went straight to Chanel? I was like blown away. Loewe, totally, but Chanel? Yeah, well, I mean, Chanel just happened to be doing that dinner in L.A., so I guess they got Conor there. But, like, you know, Armani and Saint Laurent dressed them for the Golden Globe. Like, they're really getting, like, A-list treatment. They went from complete unknowns to kind of A-list treatment in a very short space of time.

38:55And I guess, as you say, it's a really good example of how if you create something that feels very, very like special and something that's missing, it can go from nothing to something. You know, Alex Cooper and the Call Her Daddy podcast that you referenced earlier, that's another example of something that's just like really stood out. And I think in a very, very noisy media environment, having that singular voice and resonance is really, really important. Yeah, I think that both of those examples, Alex Cooper and Heated Rivalry are such like incredible examples of exactly what you said, that like you can stand out, you can, you can like break through.

39:37Again, you just need to make sure it's like special and real. And yeah, honestly, both of those examples were both of the Golden Globes, which is really interesting. Well, Willa, thank you so much. Thank you so much. For our little chat. That was really nice. And it's always nice to meet another fashion media nerd because I feel like we keep talking for a very, very long time. But hopefully we'll have a chance to do it in person at some point soon. Congratulations on a really incredible and remarkable trajectory. Thank you. And I wish you all the best with, you know, everything you're doing at Cosmo in 17.

40:17And I'm sure, I'm sure this is just the beginning. And And hopefully when we're both a bit older and wiser, we can sit down and reflect on the glory days when AI and the plummeting luxury market came to threaten fashion media. And somehow we found a way to shine through it. Yes. Thank you so much. And thank you so much for having me. It was such a great combo. The BOF podcast is edited and produced by Olivia Davies and Eric Bria.