Satoshi Kuwata Is on a Lifelong Search for Balance

0:04Hi, this is Imran Ahmed, founder and CEO of the Business of Fashion. Welcome to the BOF podcast. It's Friday, April 4th. After years honing his skills on Savile Row, studying at Central St. Martin's, and working for Givenchy, Eden, and Golden Goose, Japanese designer Satoshi Kuwata created the brand Setsu, a deeply personal response to his passion for blending Japanese and Western ideas. Grounded in precision tailoring and shaped by the poetic restraint of the kimono, Satoshi's work reflects a lifelong pursuit of balance between cultures, between past and future, and between creativity and business.

0:48My aunt was a fashion designer. She used to work for this big department store called Takashimaya, and she used to do license for Pierre Cardin. She was explaining quite deep things in fashion, how you can make money. You have to understand there is a business behind. My uncle, the other side, was wearing kimono all the time. And that's how I start being interested in observing people and what they wear. My uncle was like a dreamer. Satoshi, you see the guy wearing the suit. You see she's wearing kimono, the shape, the way they walk. It's beautiful. So I had this kind of balance. This week on the BOF podcast, I sit down with Satoshi to explore how his Japanese upbringing shaped his creative vision, how Savile Row and St.

1:41Martin's gave him the tools to execute on it, and why he's just as focused on designing a company as he is on designing clothes. Here's Satoshi Kuwata on the BOF podcast. Good morning, Satoshi Kuwata. How are you today? I'm very good. Thank you very much Imran for this amazing opportunity. The weather is great in Milan. I'm super happy to talk to you. Likewise. Well, there's a lot to discuss. The last time you and I sat down, we exchanged so many interesting stories and experiences about our respective journeys into the fashion industry. But this conversation is going to be focused on you and your experience.

2:30And I want to start, of course, with Japan. You know, Japan in our industry is revered as one of the most important places for creativity and design, but also for very sophisticated, discerning customers. Can you just tell us a little bit about what it was like growing up in Japan, where you grew up, and how you first developed your interest in fashion and clothing and garments and where all of that comes from? Yes, I think the power of Japan or the importantness of Japan, I figured when I came to London first time, to be honest, it was normal to be a Japanese. And I was born in a village. When you wake up early, you could see monkeys and deer, sometimes bears, you know, surrounded by nature.

3:32It just happened to be my aunt was a fashion designer. Okay. She used to work for this big department store called Takashimaya, and she used to do license for Pierre Cardin. So it was like really lucky, I would say. Instead of toy, I was surrounded by a lot of Pierre Cardin, you know, license products. My grandpa, my dad had so many of those garments. So those are my toys. And that's my, you know, first approach to fashion. And when I look at it more, I think it was interesting thing is that my uncle, the other side, was wearing kimono all the time. And he was taking photo and he was taking me to take a photo together and seeing Japanese as an object.

4:22And that's how I start sort of being interested in observing people and what they wear, you know, the shape difference. So I was really lucky to have this, like, two people inspired me. One really told me what is the garment, how the fashion works. You need to think about price of fabrics. You know, my aunt was really mature. She was explaining quite deep things in fashion, how you can make money. You know, on the other hand, you say, like, Satoshi, don't use too expensive fabric. You're not going to make money. You have to understand there is a business behind. And the other side, my uncle was like a dreamer.

5:07Satoshi, you see the guy wearing the suit. You see she's wearing kimono, the shape, the way they walk. It's beautiful. So I had this kind of balance. I want to talk a little bit more about your uncle and the kimonos because people who live outside Japan, we know what a kimono looks like. and my understanding is that it's not that common for people to wear kimonos every day in Japan. It's quite unusual for your uncle to be wearing a kimono, but can you tell us a little bit about the history of the kimono and how it is incorporated into daily life in Japan now? Yes, I think you're totally right.

5:53It's not common. Even when I was born in the 80s, less people were wearing kimono. I would say until 60s, I heard that a lot of people were wearing kimono. It doesn't matter if you're rich or poor. Obviously, richer that you have more kimonos in the traditional Japanese culture, but almost more like what kind of style you are into. Both dad's side and my mom's side, they're coming from really traditional families. and they're not, I wouldn't say the richest people, but they had a lot of kimonos in the house. So if I go to see my dad's house, they're wearing kimono. My grandma was always wearing kimono and it was just normal for them.

6:45It's almost like we brush the teeth. If you don't wear kimono, I don't think they feel like they're spending a day. When you wake up, you need to put the layout of kimono. And as you know, it takes quite a long time. My uncle, he was running a small business. And more, I think he was wearing kimono on the weekends. And it's all about appreciation too. The history of Japan, as everyone knows, after the Second World, lots of Western culture came in. But some side, I think they wanted to protect their culture as well. And a kimono was kind of the closest way to feel, to fit, to see the culture of Japan.

7:33And it's not the most comfortable clothes, but it's similar to how people react to the clothes you buy. Sometimes you spend a lot of money to buy expensive clothes. And then the feeling is something, wow, you know, it makes your day. I still remember when I bought for a suit, it was like, wow. And I think kimono has this power. And my both uncle and aunt, they like to wear those too sometimes. And this is why they're wearing it. I never asked them why they're wearing, but they're always wearing. And it's not the same one. They're wearing different things all the time. I think it's really to show the richness of culture.

8:22The kimono is also such a foundational garment when it comes to the shape, the pattern. Can you talk a little bit about the kimono? And then obviously, you know, those of us who are fashion nerds, we also think about the importance of patterns and shapes in Japanese fashion. if you think about designers like Yoji Yamamoto and Issey Miyake. And the Japanese have contributed so much to our industry when it comes to introducing these kinds of shapes into the Western part of the industry. I'm just curious that when you were younger, were you observing all of this? And did you know about some of these designers that were...

9:06You know, the 80s, the early 80s is when the Japanese first arrived in Paris. How do you see it all fitting together, the tradition of the kimono and Japan's rise in the global fashion scene? Yeah, my neighbor, you know, like my environment where I grew up, obviously, Reikakubo, Kondigelson, Yoji Mamoto, Isse Miyake, well, they are big. If you see fashion magazine, you see, and are you proud of being Japanese? Because those are the ones. In a way, you know, fashion is really competitive industry, but they are always on the top of the game and I think we are proud of it but like going back to a story of kimono kimono is so different and really that's what we are the biggest difference is 2d it's really two-dimensional it's a flat western clothing has a really structured like Like, you know, it's sculpture.

10:08It's a 3D and that's a big difference. So I think the one way, like Issey Miyake approached to the fabrication and make it like 3D. But when you look at his collection, actually patterns are quite 2D. Yeah, you can lay all of those garments out on the ground and it's flat. Yeah. Right. Whereas if you take a Western garment, like a suit, and you try to lay it down, it's not going to be flat. But literally, it will lay flat on the floor. And the kimono is the same thing, right? Yeah, it's interesting is that Japanese kimono was made within a lot of restriction. That's a really interesting point.

10:50It might be a bit too technical, but all the fabric were woven by hand and the room to weave the fabric had certain width. It's around like 30 centimetre to 40 centimetre, depending on the city of Japan. So they just have to maximise the fabric. And this is why Japan used to be so-called really sustainable, because to make it one suit, there's no waste. you just have small width of the fabric roll over and you cut it make one part in the sleeve front body another front body back body stick it together that's how you make a kimono okay and always left sides on top even men and women because right side on top means dead only when you die you put the right side and so it's like so many restrictions i think this is what japanese people became crazy because once you meet with the western garment it's free you can do whatever you want and some people gone too crazy but such as reika kubo yoshi mamoto are genius like understanding the floor of the fabric understanding the shape of it but still remains japaneseness and this is why those three designers i mean there is more designer amazing designers but those designers are the one I grew up.

12:15There's no space you can't deny their identity. And then the creation to me, they are genius. Yeah. Oh, I love the way you talk about that. And thank you for sharing that because I didn't realize the constraints on a loom, you know, because typically fabric comes and it's a meter long in the West, right? So you're dealing with like a very different surface area here. So little Satoshi Kuwata, growing up in this village in Japan, exposed to elements of the global fashion industry through a Pierre Cardin licensee in Japan, but also exposed to the tradition of Japan and the traditional clothes of Japan through the kimono and the neighbor that's exposing you to the greats of Japanese design in fashion, Rei Kawakubo, Issey Miyake, Yoji Yamamoto, all of these things were like a Petri dish where you grew up, you're exposed to all of this.

13:18So what led you then to decide that you wanted to pursue fashion education and try to build a career in this industry? Yes. So I was really sensitive. Like I was getting so many information and I was, I remember I'm really happy person. Like I grew up really happy. I had so much love from my mom, my dad. They didn't give me a lot of things. They gave me a lot of time and to use my hand. So, you know, researching those kinds of things, I had so much information around. And one day I saw advertisements of John Galliano and some page of Alexander McQueen. And that really woke me up. And realizing like when I was like seven and eight, I didn't have a passport.

14:12There is a fashion. Of course, I was playing with those jackets as a toy. But I learned that there is a job title called a designer. and the designer creates like Disney World. You know, it's John Galliano's advertisement or John Galliano's event. You start watching those kinds of things on the TV. And I was shocked. This is some incredible power behind it. And you need to be so creative. I didn't even know what creative, but you can make people happy in a certain way. And when I look at it more, more, more, I really loved British designers because of this tailoring. And I was talking to people, of course, my aunt as well.

15:01And I learned the importantness of tailoring because that's the most complicated garments. And I started studying more, more, more than I learned. The Japanese government even had taught by British government how to make a Japanese suit for military. So when I was like really teen, I really wanted to go to London because that's where tailoring started. And that's where McQueen and John Galeano were from. Exactly. And that's that dot connected. So you attended Central St. Martins and did your BA in women's wear there. I mean, for someone who is so far away from London and so far away from the whole like education system here, did you find the application process for getting into CSM like very challenging?

15:55I mean, because people over here, I guess they have a bit more of an advantage because they know people who've gone to CSM and they can understand. Like, how did, tell me about the application process of a little young Satoshi applying from a village in Japan to move to London. You know, that's a big shift. Yes. I have to say it wasn't as complicated as every image prize. So like, first, like going to London was already a challenge. I didn't even know how to apply to get a passport. So I got a passport and now I have to book a ticket. You know, there wasn't like a lot of website that can help me, you know, finding through those kind of things.

16:35But I came to London. I didn't go to St. Martin straight away. My first career was working at Savi Roll, Huntsman and Sand. And I started connecting some hairstylists, makeup artists. You know, we gather with some fashion people. And then I told them, I'm thinking of going to St. Martin. And everyone said, oh, no, Satoshi, it's impossible. It's only like a really, really best student can go. I was like, you haven't even seen my work. I'd like to try. So I just emailed them and they kindly asked me to meet. And so I went there and then I asked all the questions. What do I have to do? What do I need to bring?

17:14How much do I have to pay? But wait, Satoshi, how was your English when you arrived in the UK? I couldn't speak a word. So how did you teach yourself English? I think really the best way was Harry Potter's. I kept watching Harry Potter's. My friends gave me three DVDs of Harry Potter at the time, one, two, three. And I just kept watching, watching, watching. And that's how I learned. Okay. So you're on Savile Row, which is, by the way, where Alexander McQueen trained as well, right? there's this whole story about him going from the east of London to Savile Row to St. Martin's in a way your story is similar so people told you it was impossible for you to get in but somehow you did it yes I mean obviously like I admire you know Alexander McQueen is gold okay for the fashion designer I think it was really good idol and then what I always say it's like a dream bigger no it's just like I have to dream bigger and then you know you get 80 % of it 70 % of it so it was really nice to see those people like John Galliano went to St Martin too so I just wanted to do my best and went to St Martin and everyone told me to get a job in a huntman is impossible too but I remember a day after I arrived in London before St Martin I was just going to knock the door and no speak I I mean, can you imagine Japanese guy coming, can't even speak a word and just holding the card, say, work.

18:52I want to work. Job. Did you literally hold a card? Literally, literally I had there because I love the sketching. I had the card and just going to all the stores. I'm sure those times people thought, what's going on with the guys? Again, he's there. He's there because I got nothing to lose. and first one week I was just going there every day just like smiling them just to let them know that I exist I'm crazy about it and then a few weeks after I went into other tailor shop in Islington it's called Joe Allen it's a small tailor he just recently retired and then I asked for the internship and then he gave me the position so before savvy role I started working on another Taylor in London.

19:42And then eventually you worked at Huntsman. For people listening who don't know about Huntsman and what it represents on Savile Row, can you talk a little bit about the history of Huntsman and then what it was like to work there as a Japanese man? Yes, I'm the luckiest designer. I think working for Huntsman really is one of the the smallest door to open and the hardest things to get. I was really lucky. History of Hansmann is started in 19th century. Saviour is a small street and there's not many tailor making the suits in a classic way. I would say four or five stores. You see there is like more than 10 tailors, but I cannot give you the name, all of them.

20:29But Hansmann is one of them, makes in the most traditional way. Price French is one of the most expensive two teams because they use the best material. British people used to joke that Hansmann is where Rolls-Royce stops. That's the Hansmann store. Basically, best of best. And the clientele is all the royal families around the world. Of course, a lot of celebrities as well. It was so not real, all the things I experienced. And I learned their way of speaking. You don't say, how are you? Start with, how do you do? How do you do back? And you start talking about weather. And, you know, this kind of...

21:17You are learning the British polite culture of the opera classes here. I mean, you know, it's important to talk about the fact that Savile Row is traditionally, as you mentioned, has been focused on a very specific layer of society that can afford the kind of garments that Huntsman creates, but also it's a very exclusive place. So you're this Japanese guy who doesn't speak a lot of English and you're completely new to that world. I mean, yes, I'm sure it was a really lucky break, but I'm sure it also came with challenges as well, no? Yes. I like to joke about it. It was difficult. I cried because, first of all, I couldn't even pronounce woo.

22:07You know, W-O-O-L. I was like, so what's this fabric? I said woo. Pardon? Woo. No, it's woo. Okay, okay. You know, like this kind of like a challengingness. But people are really kind. They are facing to the fact that But there's not many young generation are interested in SaviRo. And as you know, some generation don't even know that SaviRo exists. And at the time when I joined, it was like still strong rules that they don't work on Sunday. Some of the shops don't work on Saturday. Also, you need to be introduced by three current clients. Otherwise, you cannot even open the door. you're not allowed to come in with a trainers or a pair of denims not hat there was a lot of rules even for people who works at the store too remember i got told off i wasn't wearing waistcoat i was wearing the shirts and i took off the jacket i step out and manager told me satoshi don't go out without jacket or at least you wear waistcoat and i asked why because it's underwear I was like ah okay so shirts is underwear it's a really like um they have a strong culture and I think their business is based on that and their business need to share with their client as well now it's changing even if you come into the store with denim it's okay because obviously less people are making suits so they have to adjust themselves to the new world but when I joined I think I was there probably last generation to feel or to experience those kind of old culture and it's nice to remember those because without foundation you cannot build a house I think their old tradition is still remain as a foundation of their culture we'll be right back with more on the bof podcast

24:24so i want to circle back to the whole conversation about patterns and pattern cutting because in a similar way but obviously with a different traditional foundation Savile Row is also known for its prioritization of pattern cutting. The pattern, every client at a Savile Row tailor has his own or her own pattern. And they keep them, it's amazing if you go inside because they keep them in a kind of archive so that once they've measured you perfectly to your shape, They have that pattern basically forever as you, you know, your body might change and they'll adapt to the pattern, but they keep a pattern for every client.

25:10And what did you learn about pattern cutting in the Western tradition? And how would you compare that to the pattern cutting tradition in Japan? That's a super interesting point. Western, so we were like a tailoring, not just on the UK. They're looking at the body construction with bones. They're looking into the inside of the body, rather than the surface of the body. They look at it, how your posture is, but not muscle. It's the level of the bones. Japan, the other hand, is all about making the garment. So it's really outside. A good example is when I was working in Savvy Road, this really young gentleman came in.

26:00He was really shy because he wasn't coming to order a suit. He was coming to alter, fix an old pair of suits. You know, in the savvy role, all the garments in the inside of the pocket, chest pocket, there is a date when the garments are made. That suit was made early 20th century, like 1907 or something. I don't remember precisely. So basically he brought his grand-grandfather's suits. We fixed it because the grandfather was shorter and slightly skinnier. And so we let it out and we lengthened it and we took it dry cleaning and then we did a final fitting with him. And it looks like it meant for him.

26:51Because at the time, the pattern cutter observed the shape of grand-grandfather's bone construction. If you're born in a certain family, you have a similar DNA. So therefore, the construction is similar. And this is why this agility makes it perfect new suits. And also, in general, you know, fabric used to be better quality. after dry cleaning after brushing it it became like new suits i doubt about japanese suiting obviously some of the company in japan can do it too but the approach of making is different yeah it's british one is really designed to last for 100 years that's why they use this heavy canvas inside but it lasts and they understand that future alteration even if you take in let it out if you change it two or three sizes different as long as body construction is similar it will fit because some of the family you have really squared shoulder then the son usually have the similar two it's not a hundred percent the case but the generation of the family still remained similar body shape.

28:14Japanese tailor doesn't look that way because I own some of really good Japanese suits too. It's more like talking about parts by parts or armhole should be higher. The chest have to be bigger, but it doesn't work like that. You need to really understand the body construction because bespoke tailoring, it's really like a Freemasons. You don't have a recipe. you're given the way to calculate the pattern you measure from nape to the end of the hip divided by two plus working scale working scale is six times divided by your chest it's really like every company has a different rule so that's why huntsman has huntsman style henry paul has henry paul style anderson shepherd has anderson shepherd and that's the really the part of it because understanding your body it was really funny um story as well that one day um you know i was um working with my manager and this gentleman came in and the manager look at the body said excuse me sir you're in the wrong store please go to anderson shepherd you will get better suits wow because they understand the body yeah the other thing that i you know that i wanted to just reflect on is what you said earlier, because you illuminated something for me, which is when I think about Japanese clothes, even modern day Japanese clothes from some of these designers we were talking about, they're not meant to fit you.

29:51It's not measured to your body. There's a lot of draping and shapes and volume about the way Japanese clothes fit. Whereas kind of traditional all Western clothes are really, it's all about how it, the tailoring and how it fits you. So Satoshi, when you think about this incredible training that you had in pattern cutting, which by the way, is a foundation that, you know, a lot of fashion schools don't really teach. You know, Central St. Martins, for example, is not really known for teaching the technical side of fashion. It's really about nurturing the creativity and helping designers to kind of discover their voice and their signature.

30:37So when you finally ended up at St. Martin's, you studied in women's wear, right? So that's probably the most creative part of the St. Martin's program. What was it like to be there with that foundation in pattern making? I think I was really trying to be a westernized designer in a way, like you say, especially with the volume. Because when you talk about Savi Ro, it's all about making your body as beautiful as possible with the right fit. So no extra fabric. But me being a Japanese, I grew up with both garments. I used to wear kimono as well. but saint martin was beyond those kind of the concept because as you described really clearly we learned a little bit of how to make a garment or pattern but i think our majority of time we was like a drawing remember the first year it was just like life drawing you're giving like five minutes you draw three minutes you draw and that's why you keep doing it i think really reobserving the body finding beautiful line on the paper what you believe in and then going to second year you're told to have a story you need to create beautiful portfolio doesn't mean clean you can just do that lot of college but living like the dream dream dream making a story story fantasy.

32:14That was the things. And I kind of remember is that those first two years, I didn't have time to go to school, by the way, that much. Why? Because you were still working on Savile Row at the time? Yeah. And then my professor, Howard Tanguy, he told me, Satoshi, just stay in Savile Row. It's a better job. He was a lovely person. I love Howard. Yeah. I still keep in touch with him. He was one of the supporters. but yeah whenever i try to do it i remember the frustration you taught me it's a really the great point am i japanese i trained in western culture am i going this way but i want to have japanese feelings so it was always the frustration what i'm bringing in because really the body and the fit really decide if consumer want to buy but i remember those like the first two years i just have to focus on creating story more than that shape of it.

33:18It's so important because I think knowing your story, understanding who you are, understanding how your experience in life, your lived experience, your identity, your passions, all of those really fundamental questions about really who you are as a person are so important in terms of shaping your identity as a designer, you know, your story as a creative person. So when you were going through this tension between the Japanese side of you and the Western training you had, like, where did you end up in the end at CSM? Like, what did you reconcile for yourself by the time you were finishing? To be honest, I'm still fighting for that now, as of now.

34:09Like someone like you, someone like Howard, those kind of, you know, the top people in the industry teach me some of the elements. And I'm really finding the right answer as of now I have is really where I feel for now. Obviously, I need to think about the business. if the loose fit doesn't sell i need to make a smaller fit and at the end of the day i'm not wearing those i prefer slightly oversized but it really shows two japanese and so to be honest like that's like the hardest answer to bring every season because i don't want to make it too japanese neither i don't want to make it because that's what's why you'll set you my brand stands for too it's it's it's really the journey is to find the right balance it's almost like that's like where we live going back the history of japan to after second world you know japan became more modern i would say influence of western culture but when you talk about 17th century of japan and now is different but both japan is interesting i think it's really for me It's a, that's what you say.

35:28It's the things that I'm looking for forever, as long as I do this job. That's actually makes complete sense because it's not like any of us ever completely reconciles our identity. You know, we're all searching for those answers. And you're so lucky in a way that you've had the medium of fashion to help you explore your own identity as a human being first and foremost, right? Okay, so you're going through this struggle. You're still going through this struggle. After St. Martin's, you had a bunch of professional experiences. You did some time with Kanye West. You worked at Givenchy with Ricardo Tichy.

36:10You spent some time at the sustainable African-influenced fashion brand Eden that was based in New York. You were head of women's wear at Golden Goose. Talk to us about these professional experiences? Because also these experiences helped to shape you and help you understand now the business side of fashion, right? Really, like, how does this work as a market? You're working with top creative people, but you're also working in contexts where the goal was to go back to what your aunt said to you to make money, right? Yeah. One of the most important goal for me was to learn, to get experience from both business aspect of it and creative aspect of it.

36:55Because I had a big dream of having my own company since I was really young. Obviously, when I was working for Ricardo, working for Eden, I never say I'm going to have my own level. you know, that doesn't sound good. So I was like ambitious, but you know, I was working for the company. You kept that to yourself. Yes. I mean, some of the people I was telling all the time, but you know, in a fashion, it's not really real to keep saying that I'm going to one day start my own level and working for the company. You know, it's not really, but every time if I had to pick the opportunity or which company I can work for, I just wrote it down what I can learn from this company.

37:37Obviously, even like you described with one of the examples, you want to learn the chance of sustainability connected to the business. Because as you know, the business and sustainable are not the best friends to each other usually. We are living in capitalism. We need to make money. We need to bring as big profit as possible. First, when I graduated, I needed C. what is the fashion as working, like as a labor, as a designer or assistant, whatever. And I had a few offers, a few from America, New York base, and one from London. And I decided to work for Gareth Pugh because he at the time was the hottest young designer.

38:24And I knew I'm going to start my own label. I wanted to see what it's like to run the small business in one of the most expensive cities in London. And this is really the simple reason. And soon I had an offer from Kanye West. Didn't know who he was. Really? No, because I don't have TV. I don't watch it. My idol was John Garriano. Yeah. You know, it's not Britney Spears. But then, you know, he really liked the way I drape. But this was really about what is a celebrity like? It was a simple curiosity because I couldn't even know watching a TV celebrity brings a lot of influence to fashion. Obviously, when they wear, that garment is going to sell.

39:19And that's something I could feel. At the time, he was doing collaboration with Nike Easy Line, with Vajor Avro. And I saw how they work and also was more curious to see. what is it life like when somebody like him given same time as us but work on so many projects it's pretty much like you you know you have 24 hours and i have 24 hours but the task you have to do is much more than me and that's something i like to meet those people like how multi-tasked they are because you cannot make a mistake and then Givenchy it's the capital of fashion of course I was interested in haute couture as well but I wanted to see what are LVMH like how the operation how big the company can be and I was a great ambition of course I want my company to be a big maison in the world what kind of department exists is a PR in-house outside law department CEO or CFO what do they do what kind of team constructed because even though I was doing my own level in the future I knew I need to step by my career then when I become designer senior designer I need to construct my team I need to understand how to build a pyramid it's also the political aspect as well, because it's so many people working.

40:50What is the stress between the people each department has? And I think that's really important to think about both business side and also sustainable in the environment, because I want my old team to feel comfortable, yet a little competitive, but not bitching each other. Tell me more about that, because one of the things that's not often discussed by designers is the role of being a team leader, building a team and then leading a team. And so when you say you wanted to make and create a place where people feel comfortable, but you also want to make it feel competitive, what do you mean by that?

41:30Because a lot of the places you've mentioned, the people that you've worked with, that's not always the philosophy in fashion that people should feel comfortable working in a team, right? As you said, it can be quite bitchy and it can be quite cutthroat. Even St. Martin's sometimes has a reputation of being quite cutthroat amongst the different students. You know, like where did you resolve at some stage that you said, well, you want to create a different kind of environment? First of all, I think as you're a more trendy company, it becomes competitive. I think that's why St. Martin was really bitchy environment.

42:04I remember one of my classmates step on my portfolio. What do you mean? Somebody stole my work. Really? Yes. But when I was young, I think I was taking that as a great opportunity. I was really confident because it's not me being talented. I was lucky to work in Huntsman. I think I'm going to achieve something. You know, it's not my ability, but thanks to Savi Roe gave me a great opportunity. So I was a little confident and putting myself comfortable. I don't have to be over competitive. Competition happens when they have, I would say, less confidence. You become competitive. But if you really truly respect the others, you can step back and observe that.

42:57So in St. Martin, yes, I could see lots of competition going on. It wasn't only me, but for example, my garment was stolen right after White Project. White Project is what you do. The first project. My garment was stolen. I just felt, oh, wow, somebody wanted my garment. That's good. I took it with confidence. Anyway, I mean, what are you going to do with that? you know so then work-wise it's a really tough um when i was in givanshi obviously it was hottest time for ricardo it wasn't the best experience i wasn't treated the way i expected but really taught me you know some other things have to change by being competitive yes you try to get better idea but that's only design a second idea from others and I don't find it healthy I'm more like believing in giving a free space for everyone but not too free because this person might become lazy I am really trying to create the space where people feel comfortable yet can really work harder and that's something that's different i work with a great team for set you now and it's just all the experience i learned i'm trying to make it better version of it and it's not one way of doing it as you can imagine everyone thinking a different way but everyone has something and as a leader i find it more important is not just designing every single garments I'd like to design a company as well I like to design the beautiful relationship as well and I think I spend quite a lot of time on this matter because if I have a good team I don't have to ask them to finish certain things on time they will try to finish it even earlier we become more proactive and we give them a chance to make a mistake and at the end I always put all the responsible myself for example I give my assistant to come up with the idea and I'm gonna tell her do you think you can do it and say yes we'll do it but then I prepare my answer as well too so not putting too much pressure but then if she brings it some idea and then oh okay but you could do this better then I show my answer as well and then we start talking idea a and b which one's better and we debate and I become competitive with her and she knows that I have more experience but I give her a chance to be the same level and this kind of different competition can bring a different result and that's what we are doing now and then as of now it is working we are not bitching each other we sometimes go for lunch every time we have a new intern comes in we do this kind of you know communication things, they communicate.

46:04And I think it's really, I'm trying to create a new way of working from my bad experience. That's so wise, Satoshi, like the way you're thinking about not just designing a garment, but designing a company and the way your team works. And there's lots of really important lessons in there. We've kind of skipped ahead because we didn't really talk about really the biggest decision you've made ever since you entered the industry, which was when to finally launch your own brand. You had all of that experience at all of those companies. When did you know it was the right time to start Setsu? My, like, old memory, I wanted to start my own level when I was 30 years old.

46:49And that was, like, I had. You set that goal for yourself. Yes. When I was, I would say, like, 21, 22 years old, I as I talked to more senior people that they taught me oh Satoshi you should go to Saburo you should do this and this this and then you know when you put it those things okay it's gonna take this time you know so maybe 30 is the time I should start but then when I was 30 I think I was working for other company and it's kind of addiction when you work for a company you don't know where to stop you're working and then I love working so non-stop every weekend and time goes like this and the opportunity was pandemic I cannot say pandemic was the best time I feel for the people who lost the families important people but pandemic really stopped my work my phone call my emails really the time everyone was worried but in the same times I was super creative I was sketching every day I was draping and it was not for work it was for my pleasure and then you know every time you know when I start working for Gareth I always had some idea for you know my Setu brand.

48:19At the time, I didn't know the name Setu, but for my label. And so I brought back all those ideas and I see, is it a good time? Is it not a good time? And then I think I was calling my brother and say, what do you think of me starting it? And then he goes, I think it's the bad time, but it's also the good time. It's like a love relationship. And if you don't start, you never start and then I was talking to my other classmate from St. Martin it's Louis Baratameri my best friend he works as an artist and we are like talking often because all of a sudden our phone stopped ringing we didn't know what to do and Louis also was like a turning point as well he was moving to Morocco what he trying to do is so limited no he was stuck in Egypt I remember He couldn't go back.

49:17He missed the flight back to, you know, France. At the time, government was preparing the flight and he was going through Ramadan. He was complaining he was only given one leg a day and he was really starved. And I remember this kind of conversation now. Yeah. And then we, I talked to a few people, everyone said the same thing. Satoshi, if you think the time and that's the time. So I said, okay, I'm going to start it. And then everyone said to me, Satoshi, you're crazy. But then, no, I think this is the time because I had the time. So really in the middle of the pandemic. So you've created Setsu back in 2020, although it's been in your head for a really, really long time.

49:59And Satoshi, it's been kind of incredible to see the response from the industry to what you're doing. You know, you and I were speaking in Milan earlier this year. And I told you, I've just been so impressed and inspired by the way you've been showcasing and developing your creative contribution to our industry. And obviously, there's been tons of recognition. There's been the LVMH Prize in 2023. You showed at Pittiwomo earlier this year in January. The response was amazing. but at the same time as an independent brand as a young designer trying to build your own business it's really really hard you know and we recently published a story on BOF where you were you were quoted and you were sharing some of the experiences of what it's like to be a young designer in fashion today a truly creative designer with a really really clear purpose around what you're trying to do, this blend between, you know, the Japanese side and the Western side, like all of it is so clear.

51:10And even with that incredible foundation, all the attention you're getting, you're facing a lot of challenges as well. Can you talk to us a little bit about some of those challenges and how you're navigating them? First of all, I really find a big pressure before I go to bed sometimes, but I'm taking again really positive fashion is fashion it's not 100 % people loves your collection there's always love and hate and I mean thanks to mom and dad create who I am I was really lucky to bring my team and people around me I just happen to be surrounded by right people in the right time and I don't take it as a pressure I always take it as an opportunity and I always dream big you know and then I appreciate of every challenge when I'm finished I achieve something and I admit mistake was mistake if I could do better I always sort of So when I'm facing to the challenge, I really try to analyze the situation.

52:23And the challenge is really big. It's, I mean, what's happened, you know, like, for example, the president of America is announcing what is going to affect to our business. I'm scared. Am I going to pay the rent every month? Am I going to be okay? but as long as I'm trying to achieve every step with a clear mind I am you know feeling that I'm okay but it's like a pressure is really big but in the same time the present is really big I mean I'm talking to Imran now imagine it's that thousand million designer dream but I can do this now and this gives me a big energy to face to another challenge and once you pass the challenge you experience something new and again then I would say Satoshi well done you did something if you couldn't do it Satoshi don't do that again let's do it this way and then it just like have to be really reality but you need to be really positive and really appreciate every step and And that's something I'm trying to face in myself too, because as you say, really, a lot of things happening.

53:43We cannot make a big mistake. Probably we made a few mistakes. But at the end of the day, I think I'm surrounded by right people. And those right people are the most important people. And this is what I am, because I am not the most talented person. I did Saint Martin. I did Savile Row. again it's it's not me it's them and i really appreciate it and i try to emphasize it and i really try to emphasize the beauty of fashion is teamwork i think it's like it's including buyers final consumers journalists and including that as a fashion and that's what i found the beauty of fashion we can sometimes share this challenge together with those people if i don't think I can solve it myself.

54:35And this is really all the things about fashion to me. Well, Satoshi, you know, honestly, the privilege has been mine to get to know you and to hear your story. I find the way you share things, you're almost like a fashion philosopher in a way. And when you were speaking just now, it reminded me of, do you know the tennis player, Billie Jean King? Yes. You know, when she has this really, really famous quote, she said, pressure is a privilege. And I think having that mindset, that optimistic outlook, having the kind of internal confidence that you have, combined with the humility you have, and the clarity you have around your purpose and what you're doing, it's a really, really important lesson for everyone who works in fashion, because we are so lucky to work in this industry.

55:30And sometimes, you know, with everything going on, you and I are speaking the day after Donald Trump announced these huge tariffs that are going to affect the whole fashion industry, on top of all the other challenges that industry is facing right now. And, you know, with the slowdown in the market and the rapid changes happening at all of these big houses, you know, but to have the clarity of mind and the quiet confidence that you have is, I think it's a really, really good sign of what's to come for you, Satoshi. And I'm so proud to know you. And the privilege is for me to speak to you and learn from you.

56:10And I'm sure everyone is going to feel the same way when they hear this conversation. So before we finish, I'm just wondering two things. Where do you want to take Setsu from here? And secondly, for the young Satoshis all around the world, growing up in villages, trying to make their way in fashion, what advice do you have to share with them about making it and finding their way in this industry? First of all, I like to really slow grow. I don't have to rush it. I think the important thing is that we are in the space that people are tired of over shopping. I'd like to make a statue to make people experience what we do.

56:58We are not doing a commercial project. We are doing something meaningful, both creative way and also sustainable way too. And I think I'd like to really want people to stop and see how we are growing. We are not only doing fashion. We are thinking of doing something lifestyle. We are planning to do something in September. It's important thing is I like to keep making the noise, but not overgrow. I, as, you know, the owner of a small company, I understand the limit. I like to make it like real growth. I don't have to grow too fast, but we would like to make it into as big a company as possible, but in a really peaceful way.

57:47Sometimes it's just grow too quick. You can't even see the process. I think I like people to even enjoy the process of Setsu is growing together with our team. And that's the ideal way of it. In 10 years time, 20 years, 30 years time, each goal is different. But our goal is not to rush. But one day, maybe in 100, 200 years time, obviously you like to make a sechua to be like Hermes. That's something I feel. And because the word sechua, again, it's not my word, why your sechua has a big potential. It's a mixed culture of Japan and outside of Japan. That's endless way of coming up with the idea.

58:29So not only fashion, could be furniture, could be something else that's something my goal is and for advice for those younger people who wanted fashion company in the future listen to people I think that's the best way having your own idea doesn't mean denying other ideas I always joke about it if my team comes as better idea for me, I would say, can I just say that was my idea in the future when I become famous, you know? It's okay. Everyone's there to tell you. They don't have any extra bonus to give me this idea. They just love you. They give you idea. I think good listener is the quickest way to be successful.

59:19Satoshi, thank you so much. No, thank you very much. It means a lot to me. I enjoy it so much. Yeah, that was such a fantastic chat. I always feel that way after chatting with you. And I look forward to many, many more chats in the future. Yeah. And also to your future success and that of your team. You guys are doing some really, really beautiful work that makes fashion just more interesting. So thank you. Thank you very much. It really means a lot to me. And see you soon in Milano. The BOF Podcast is edited and produced by Olivia Davies and Eric Bria.