The New Rules for Influencer Marketing

0:07Hello and welcome to The Debrief from the Business of Fashion where each week we delve into our most popular BOF professional stories with the correspondents who created them. I'm senior correspondent Sheena Butler-Young. And I'm executive editor Brian Baskin. The rules of influencer marketing have changed. Consumers can smell a hard sell, creators want autonomy, and new platforms like Substack and even OnlyFans have entered the mix. Content creators increasingly compete with not just each other for followers' attention, but also AI. This week, BOF is publishing The Creator Economy Comes of Age, a special series of articles looking at all the ways the rules of social media are changing.

0:48We have with us BOF Senior News and Features Editor, Diana Pearl, who edited the package and has written a case study, The New World of Influencer Marketing. Diana, welcome back to The Debrief. Thanks for having me. Always a pleasure. Diana, we've had you on a few times to talk about influencers. I think this is your favorite topic, safe to say? Yeah, definitely up there. Definitely up there. And you've been following this world for a while. Why did you feel this was the time to do the big everything is changing? No one knows what's happening next kind of package. You know, I think the last time we had done a case study on influencer marketing was four years ago.

1:24And thinking about how much the sector has changed in that four years is crazy. I mean, like Substack was just barely on people's radar. TikTok obviously was a thing, but it was hadn't quite cemented itself as, you know, I would say probably the most important platform in content creation just yet. You know, there wasn't this subscription boom and where we're seeing creators put their content behind a paywall. There's also just so many more creators now. You know, there are people who hadn't even, you know, launched their accounts in 2022 who now like are huge names. So it really just was felt like time to revisit the topic, look at all the, you know, changes that we've sort of covered over the past four years in individual feature articles and bring them together and identify what are the big themes that are facing the influencer marketing sector today and how should brands and creators think about those themes and move forward.

2:17And one of the recurring themes in your case study and a lot of the stories that we're running this week is that four years ago, that was a simpler time, which is, it's not quite how I remember it, but in influencer world, it sounds like the rule is basically if someone has more followers, you're probably going to get better results. and that's really broken down in the intervening years. Is that right? Yeah, I think what's the biggest change that has really happened in the past four years, and there's a lot of them, but there is a lot more data available to brands now. A big part of this is because of ShopMy, which is an influencer monetization platform really focused on affiliate marketing that launched in 2020, but has exploded, I'd say particularly in the last two years.

2:56And they offered a new look at data that just brands previously had never had access to. So they could see exactly what creators were driving sales for them, exactly which influencers, you know, were driving a lot of traffic to their websites. And they didn't have to pay, you know, anything on top of just the initial fee to be on the platform or like the monthly commitment to be on the platform. So that really changed things. Then LTK, which is ShopMai's main competitor and the incumbent in the space, also started offering a lot more data, which they're now offering to brands free of charge. So having more data, I think, A, encouraged more brands to feel comfortable investing in influencer marketing, whereas previously maybe it felt like it's only really worth it if you can work with the big names.

3:38If you're a smaller brand, you can't afford to work with the big names. But having that data made people realize, oh, if you have a smaller following, you can still drive a ton of sales, if not more sales than the big people. So I think that having data just really totally changed the game. And it's not to say there wasn't data before, but people were a lot more looking at things like likes and comments. And now it's more about shares and, you know, how long has a video been viewed for? And, you know, sales, there's a lot more of a focus now on conversion rather than just awareness. It was more of an art.

4:11Now it's more of a science. Definitely. Definitely. I want to unpack a little bit what this like new KPI system looks like. I know data is important, but we've been saying for a long time, like the micro-influencer is going to be more important than the macro-influencer. But if you're a brand hiring someone right now, a content creator, what's the KPI you're looking at? Is it just that brands have access to ShopMy or LTK now? Or do they have their own spreadsheet that shows different criteria than what they would have looked at four years ago? Yeah, I mean, having the data that ShopMy and LTK gives is huge.

4:41There's also other like data sources. Creator IQ is a big one. There's lots of different ways to measure impact. But I would say in terms of KPIs, it really is incredibly varied today. And I think that as the influencer and creator marketing space has grown, it's not just one piece of the marketing puzzle. It's like you could build your whole marketing strategy on influencers and creators. You know, there's lots of you can work with, you know, a type of influencer who maybe is really known for driving sales. They have a super engaged audience that really cares about, you know, the clothes they buy.

5:13or you could work with a comedy content creator who does, you know, funny videos on TikTok and then find a way to integrate your brand into their content. So there's so many different ways to work with them. I think the KPI differs depending on who you're working with, depending on the platform you're working with them on. Like if you really want to have a creator get super in-depth about your product or your brand, Substack is a great channel. You know, if you want something that's just going to reach a lot of people and maybe make them laugh or just, you brand in front of their eyes, TikTok's probably the best choice.

5:43So I think that as the sector expands, it's just like there is no one baseline KPI. It's really just about what are your goals and who's the best to help you achieve that. I guess another version of that question is like, how does a brand define trust? Like I think the case study talks about follower count is now a weaker proxy, but trust and suitability are. Like how do they suss that out in 2026? Yeah. I mean, I think that, again, like having the data really helps. I feel like for creators, they're lucky in that they get this instant feedback from their audience. So, you know, if they post something that feels really off brand or a partnership that just really like their followers are just like, you would never shop there.

6:23You know, why are you taking on an ad from this? They'll immediately respond. And I think that, you know, every creator I spoke to for the case study, and then, you know, I talked to creators just generally throughout reporting. they say over and over, like trust is the most important thing. If you don't have your audience's trust, like nothing else matters. And I think from a brand perspective, they've realized that what a creator really brings to the table is not necessarily the size of their following. It's that relationship they have with their audience. I think what makes creators and influencers so unique in marketing is that you really have this almost like parasocial relationship with them.

6:59You know, you watch them. Like I think about some of the influencers I've followed for over a decade. Like I've watched them graduate from college, move to the city, meet their husband, get married, have a baby, buy a house. Like you really, it's almost like a real life Truman show sort of thing. But when you have that sort of relationship with someone, you've probably taken a ton of their product recommendations over the years. You trust their judgment, you trust their taste. So I think that creators realize that's super important to maintain and brands realize like, oh, if I can get someone to buy into my product who has the buy-in of all these people that follow them, that's just so impactful rather than I think they previously used to view it more as almost like a replacement for TV ads of like, OK, this person has five million followers, so our brand will be seen by five million people.

7:44And, you know, there's a space for that sort of play. But I think that people have realized that influencer marketing is a much more multifaceted strategy nowadays. What you said about trust before trust is the biggest currency that came from a creator named JC Dupree, who you spoke with, and she launched her blog Damsel in Dior in 2009. So she's been doing this basically from the beginning. I mean, that's pre-Instagram. That's how long ago that was. Why don't you tell us about her journey and how her persona and her business have evolved through all the changes that you're talking about? Yeah.

8:19I mean, she is a super interesting figure. She's obviously been very present in the influencer marketing space, And I think of her as a real like OG influencer. I mean, she's really done so many different things in her career. She said she had the, you know, the blog, which was all the rage in the 2010s. She has a big following on Instagram, not like crazy massive. I think she probably has like just shy of$600 ,000. So it's big, but it's not like 5 million big. I honestly think that's like a great size. Like you still have that deep connection with your audience, but it's not like you're so big.

8:50You've sort of almost become this like celebrity that people just can't feel that same sort of connection with. She's done product collaborations. She launched a brand and then wound that down. She now has a sub stack with content behind a paywall. What she has said to me is that just as she's gotten, you know, deeper and deeper into this career, it's nice to have these opportunities to make money where it's not just totally tied to, you know, a brand partnership or a sponsorship because those can go away or brand budgets change and maybe there aren't as many in one year or the next. One thing she also said was that affiliate marketing and affiliate sales have been the cornerstone of her strategy from the get-go, what was then reward style.

9:27Now LTK has existed since 2011. I believe she's been on the platform since its very early days. And that affiliate marketing really just provides that base foundational income that you can rely upon. And again, you're more in control of it too. Obviously people have to shop, but you can up the number of links you share or bring it down. We should define what affiliate marketing is for those who aren't initiated yet. Can you give us the quick definition? Yeah, yeah. I feel like more and more people are learning it every year. But affiliate marketing is when an influencer shares a link to, say, a sweater.

9:58And then you're like, oh, I love that sweater. You go and buy it. The influencer will then get a cut of the sale. It usually is around 10 % to 15%. Sometimes it can be more. Sometimes it can be less. But that can be a really lucrative channel for people who just are big shopping influencers and they just share products all the time. And that can be like the majority of their income. That seems like nice work if you can get it. So why, I mean, why does someone like JC Dupree feel the need to branch out from that and launch a sub stack where instead of taking photos and attaching links, she has to come up with something to write every day?

10:34You know, I think that for someone like JC, a sub stack, it's not just about the money and like being able to put things behind the paywall. It's also, you know, she had a blog and I think there are a lot of people who had the blogs back in the 2010s. And they sort of longed for that. There was like an intimacy to the world back then. And obviously it was a lot less commercial. People were making less money off of it, that sort of thing. But there was more of a community feel among bloggers, among, you know, regular commenters. I think Substack has brought some of that community feel back. When it did a story, I believe it was two years ago, about the sort of subscription boom, something that came up is that, you know, influencers and creators get a lot of hate on the internet.

11:12Like they get a lot of people who hate on them and like send them mean messages and nasty comments. And Substack gives them a place where if they put content behind a paywall, they can open up about the personal stuff that they know that their loyal followers are like dying to hear about, but they can do it in a way that doesn't open them up to the same sort of criticism and vulnerability, which I completely understand. So I think it has like both benefits in terms of, yes, it provides an additional revenue stream, but I also think it brings back some of that like intimacy and community that they felt was missing in this kind of like TikTok, Instagram world?

11:45Yeah, I feel like a lot of this sounds like what it was initially intended to be. Like, I think we should get into the consumer skepticism that's also happened over the last five or so years. Like when influencers and content creators first started selling stuff, it felt like you could trust them more than a traditional ad. It felt almost like it wasn't paid for. And then it got so inundated that now people are like, I opened my Instagram or I think a year ago, you open your Instagram or your TikTok, felt like everyone was selling you something. I think we're landing a little bit closer to what we intended it to be.

12:17Like if those are supposed to be the antidote to like big brand marketing, and now I think we're finding a new middle ground. I think that's why affiliate marketing has really made such a comeback in the last couple of years, because if you like gift a product to an influencer, they talk about it organically and they link to it on their stories. They make money on, you know, affiliate income, the brand doesn't have to cut this like giant check. Gifting is a lot of times more affordable. You can get your products in the hands of more creators than if you do, you know, one$20 ,000 sponsored post with a big influencer with over a million followers.

12:51Hashtag ad, hashtag sponsored. Yeah, exactly. And I think when it's organically in their content, like Shopmai introduced this feature, I believe in late 2024, called Opportunities. And brands can pay a certain amount a month to guarantee a set number of organic mentions on an influencer's profile. And I think that's such an interesting idea. And brands had told me that they'll start with maybe gifting. And then when they see that someone they gifted can drive sales for them, maybe they'll do a shop my opportunity. And then maybe they'll do that like more formal hashtag ad partnership. People really just want those organic placements.

13:26Like that's what feels, that's what sells like some sort of scripted ad. It's not doing what people I think thought it might five years ago. And there's also probably some tension. It's like I'm introducing something that's also probably not a good idea for some influencers, right? They're pushing back on wanting more from brands like they want the some of them want the bigger partnerships or the bigger paydays to write like there's this is not that straightforward on either side. Like now that they feel more empowered, they think they can ask for more and maybe not just the product, the free gifting.

13:55Talk about that tension. Yeah, I think that that is a like evolution the industry went through a few years ago, actually, like in the 2010s, when brands were first starting to like influencers were starting to become like an actual like business. I think that brands would be like, oh, like you can have some free product. And then, you know, and like just talk about it and guarantee for story posts or for Instagram posts and that people were just like, OK, I can't pay my rent with free product. Now, I think gifting sort of has gotten a bit of a makeover. Now it's just about starting that relationship, about knowing what a brand is up to.

14:33You can make the money on affiliate. There's also when you gift a product, like there's no expectations. Obviously, fingers crossed, you hope that people post. I think usually if people like the product, they do. If they don't like the product, you probably don't even want them to post it. Obviously, influencers still and creators still want those big partnerships. I think for most of them, it does still make up the bulk of their earnings. but they like to just diversify a little more. They don't want to rely too much on one particular partnership. You know, they just want to have a broader spectrum of options and ways to make money.

15:03So then it's not like if one thing falls away, you're scrambling. Have we seen a shift in the power dynamic then? I mean, I'm thinking also about what you said about Substack and some of the other platforms where influencers can build their own communities that pay them directly, no brands needed. I mean, can brands dictate the terms like they used to with influencers? I don't think so. I mean, yes, brands obviously have a lot of power as well. It's not to say that, you know, the power balance is completely shifted. But I do think that as a influencers and creators are recognized as being a really important part of the marketing puzzle, I think, especially in fashion and beauty.

15:44These are industries that are just, you know, so dominated by, you know, influencers and creators. I think that brands have realized, like, we need to work with them and we need to listen to them. Like, you're not just hiring this person for their following. Like, again, I think it all comes back to looking at them as more than just like someone to use to get in front of all their followers. You hire them because they're a creator. They create great content. They know how to engage an audience with their content. Like you're not just hiring them for the access to the following. It's also, you know, their skills as content creator, their audience insights, like creators have customers constantly in their DMs talking about why they like a product, why they don't like a product.

16:24What are their, you know, wardrobe holes that they feel like are constantly going unfilled. They just have access to so much like insight from consumers. Brands have realized there's a lot that they can use there too. So I think that brands are just really waking up to the power of creators and how that goes beyond just, you know, a channel to run ads.

16:44We'll be back with more of The Debrief right after this.

16:52Let's talk about AI, which definitely was not a factor in your last case study on influencers and is a very big factor now. So there are now influencers that are entirely AI generated. There's just sheer, you know, oceans of AI slop washing around on these platforms. I mean, it's just more competition for attention. I mean, how are influencers adapting to the presence of AI in what used to be their world? Yeah, I think that AI is not, some people are like, AI is going to bring down the influencer industry. I don't think that's the case at all. If anything, I think all the AI slop makes like good content that comes from actual people that you have this parasocial relationship with, like even more important.

17:33And yes, people are going to go to chat GPT for shopping recommendations and that sort of thing. It's not to say that it's not going to change things, but I think in some ways it's going to change things for the better. You know, we've seen a number of AI enabled platforms. I spoke to the founder of one called Agentio for my case study, and they use AI to pair brands with creator partners to sort of streamline that process. So I think that there are ways that creators can integrate AI into their content in terms of, or integrate AI more into their workflow rather, you know, whether it's helping them come up with content ideas or, you know, scripts or just helping them keep things organized.

18:12I think that there's a lot of opportunity there, but I mean, I'm personally a believer, like these AI generated influencers are like the whole point of an influencer is that you feel like you have this personal connection to them. Like that is why they are so effective. And I just don't think that an AI generated influencer is like ever going to be able to even come close to having that sort of connection. I'm inclined to agree. But I think it's less the actual AI influencers and more AI content generally, which can be so optimized to what viewers want. And every second that they're watching an AI generated video is the second they're not paying attention to an influencer.

18:48And that's the real threat here. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe I'm in denial, but I just think that it's the same reason you tune into your favorite TV show week after week. And like, yes, maybe there'll be AI generated content. Look, there's like TV ratings lately. I don't know. I think it's closer to like when people said stores were going away because e-commerce came out. Like, I think this is like another way, another tool among many. I don't I don't see first. I definitely don't see the AI influencer replacing the human one. But I think it's another tool that could maybe make influencers better at what they do.

19:25Yeah, I think so, too. Well, I think that's a great analogy. But if you think about it, you know, Sears went away, but some other, you know, stores thrived in that e-commerce environment. I'm curious, who were the influencers in that Sears category where maybe they're kind of that marginal content that people could take or leave? And I got the sense that was quite lucrative to make generic fashion content for a while. And I kind of question what the future of that is. What do you think, Diana? I mean, I think it's all just about like zeroing in on like you as a person, what makes you unique and special.

20:00Like, what is it about your taste, your life experiences, like just bringing all that in? Like there can never be another you. And like AI is just not going to be able to create. I know. Sorry, not to get cheesy, but like it's true. You know, I think that and I like there's a reason we call AI content slop. Like, I just don't think that it's quite as engaging as when you like know someone's life story to a degree and you have that personal connection with them. And they like can I feel like we're seeing a lot of influencers bringing people together offline. There's this influencer, Brett Chody, and she's kind of just does like a mix of like lifestyle, food, fashion, beauty, etc.

20:36People are super invested in her as a person. She has these run clubs that she'll stage in cities all over the country and like hundreds of women show up like AI is just isn't going to be able to do that. So I think leaning into the things that make a human influencer special will really help be that antidote. Because if you have someone who's like really invested in you as a person, it doesn't matter if their feed is filled with AI slop, because they're going to go to your profile and try it and like find out your content and seek out your content. Like I definitely do that with, you know, people that I love following.

21:07I'll like go be like, oh, have they posted or, you know, check their sub stack or, you know, just make sure that their content is feeling because I'm like, I'm curious about what they in particular have to say. Isn't that what we say about AI all the time, Brian, that the mundane, low stakes, horrible stuff will just weed itself out. And then the stuff that's really amazing and really human, I'm just going to keep the sappy stuff going. But like that stuff will rise to the top and everything else sort of falls out. I mean, my hot take is I think we've had way too many influencers doing the same thing and way too many people with hundreds of thousands or millions of followers.

21:40And I'm like, I don't know. I think at some point you need some of the creme de la creme to come to the top. Yeah. I think what's interesting, though, is that you don't need to have like some massive following to make this work. Like we've seen that, you know, you can have a very powerful business. There are even people who I feel like have 20 ,000 followers and they do well for themselves. So I do think it's just it's changing. we're seeing that line blur between regular social media user and influencer more and more and more. So I think we'll continue to see that evolve as well. I think it's less that people think influencers will go away, you know, the bubble pops and there just aren't influencers anymore.

22:16But like Sheena was saying, it does feel like maybe there's too many people doing two similar things. And it may be something like AI or what's going on with some of these platforms or the data does lead to something of a shakeout where the influencers who are actually good at what they're doing rise to the top and everyone else kind of, you know, fades from view. But I think that's always happening. You know, like there's always people who like have been attempting to be influencers since the 2010s and like they make it work for maybe a year or two and then they get tired of it and they fade away.

22:47Like there's lots of people who have made this work as a career for, you know, a decade plus like like a J.C. Dupree. It's like our careers, guys, in media. Like there is a lot of shaking out that happens every 10 years and we are all forced to evolve or show our strengths. So Diana, before we let you go, can you just tell us like, what does this all mean? Like the Cliff Notes version of what does this all mean for the creator economy in 2026 and beyond? I'm personally of the belief that we're only going to see the creator economy continue to grow. Yes, there will be creators who cannot make their careers last, you know, that have that viral video on TikTok and try to turn it into something that lasts longer than 15 minutes and fail.

23:27But I think there's plenty of creators who have already managed to make this career last for a decade plus and, you know, have gone through all the evolutions from blogs to Instagram to TikTok to Substack. But I think that we're just going to see brands use creators more and more for more than just, you know, again, like I said, a way to reach a lot of people. We'll see them doing product collaborations. That's been a big trend over the last six months. We'll see them bringing creators in to offer thoughts on product development or marketing strategies. I think that we'll just see that relationship between brands and creators continue to grow and get closer and creators continue to be just a really important part of how people shop today.

24:07I feel like I've only seen it grow and grow and I would be surprised if that changes. Awesome. Diana, thank you so much for joining us today. Yeah, my pleasure. Thanks guys. Please be sure to check out Diana's case study from hype to discipline, the new world of influencer marketing at businessoffashion.com. These and other stories are available to BOF professional subscribers only, and you can find the links in the episode notes. You've been listening to The Debrief, produced and edited by Olivia Davies and Eric Bria. I'm Sheena Butler-Young. And I'm Brian Baskin. We'll be back next week with a new episode.

24:41Thanks so much for joining us and Be sure to follow us wherever you get your podcasts.