Why Colleen Allen Turns Away Retailers That Won't Pay Deposits

0:00Your call has been forwarded to an automatic voice message system. A missed call doesn't feel like anything. No red flag, no notifications screaming at you. It just disappears into your call log. And nine times out of ten, that was someone ready to hand you money. That's why today's episode is brought to you by Quo, spelled Q-U-O, the business phone system built so you never miss a call. Here's what I like about it. All your calls, texts, and voicemails live in one place, so anyone on your team can pick up a conversation, see the full history, and respond fast. No more, wait, who talked to this customer last?

0:36And if you're worried about after-hours leads slipping through, Quo's optional built-in AI agent can answer questions and even book appointments while your team's offline. It's the number one rated business phone system on G2, and over 90 ,000 businesses already trust it to stay reachable. Money is on the line. Always say hello with Quo. Try Quo for free. Plus get 20 % off your first six months when you go to Quo.com slash tech. That's Q-U-O dot com slash tech.

1:07Colleen Allen: This episode is brought to you by Macy's. Mark your calendars for September 8th, as Macy's has just brought together six of the most iconic names in American fashion for one exclusive capsule collection. Tommy Hilfiger, Michael Kors, and Donna Karan, alongside some of the industry's most exciting newer voices like Jonathan Cohen, The Affilio and La Pointe. Six designers, six completely different takes on full and every piece is exclusive to Macy's. These pieces are only around for a limited time so don't sleep on this one. Head to Macy's on September 8th to shop their collection before it's gone for good.

1:49Hi, this is Imran Ahmed, founder and CEO of the Business of Fashion. Welcome to the BOF podcast. Colleen Allen learned to sew sitting on her grandmother's lap, holding the fabric while her grandmother worked the pedal. Growing up in the Midwest, far from the industry, she found her way in through magazines, the first fashion blogs, and old McQueen shows on YouTube. She studied menswear at Parsons, moved to London for a semester abroad at Central St. Martin's, and then asked to stay on to complete her degree. She landed her first job designing menswear at The Row. But then something shifted. She decided to venture out on her own and create a womenswear label in 2024.

2:33Since then, she says the business has grown by triple digits year over year, with no outside investment and no full-time team other than herself. So how did she do it? We are really only working with people on a deposit basis. Otherwise, it's impossible. And so I'm very grateful that within the current retail clients, people have been accommodating for those terms because it's the only way it works. This week on the BOF podcast, Colleen joins me to talk about the making of a women's wear label, the discipline behind self-funded growth, and what she's building next. And just a note, we recorded this conversation ahead of the LVMH prize final in Paris, where she was one of nine finalists.

3:22Here's Colleen Allen on the BOF podcast. Hello, Colleen. Hi, I'm Ron. Nice to, this is the first time we're meeting. Well, did we meet at the LVMH Prize actually? We did. Yes, very briefly. So it's not the first time we're meeting because I did a fly by visit for my judging last year because I don't know what happened. Yeah, it was a crazy day. So I totally understand. So we have met briefly. Yes. But I'm glad to have this opportunity to speak more in depth now for as long as our hearts desire. Yeah, thank you so much for having me. It's such an honor. I'm really excited. Well, it's a pleasure.

4:08So take me back to your grandmother's sewing machine. Why was that such a defining part of your growing up? And how did that lead you to what you're doing today? I was always making something. I think no matter what I was doing, I was making things. And I think my grandmother was the same way. She spent all of her free time. She was a quilter. And so she couldn't sit still and she had to have some sort of craft happening. and so when she would visit me we got a sewing machine for the house for when she would visit because she had to have something to do with that and so she taught me how to sew I would literally sit on her lap and hold the fabric as she would press the pedal and we would make quilts we would make pillows I was always like kind of creating a landscape out of my quilts I remember we were making Halloween pillows and I was probably five or six and she wanted to just do strips so I could just learn how to sew straight lines.

5:23But we had gone to the, the fabric store and I had picked out all of these different kind of Halloween themed fabrics. And I had picked like the pumpkins for the bottom and there were some like haunted houses in the middle and there were witches flying in the sky. I had like composed a landscape and so that was kind of always the way that I spent time with her and then we just had this sewing machine sitting in our house she she lived on the east coast and I'm in the midwest and so she would come over just for visits and then that sewing machine sat in my bedroom and I would just kind of use it and figure it out and teach myself how to sew so that was the beginnings I mean, you could have been sewing curtains or you could have been sewing, continued to sew quilts.

6:17Like how did that become an interest in clothes? I mean, I loved fashion and I didn't really have any of people in my life who had any connection to fashion. And so it was something that I really had to seek out and create for myself. so I was buying magazines and taking apart my own clothes and reconstructing them to be closer to the things that I wanted and I would take you know hand-me-downs from friends and family and it was chopping things into something new and that was just my way of like getting closer to that world but then at some point you're like did if you even if you're far away i guess you're connected to the internet and everything that was happening there like how did that inform your understanding of fashion as a potential career right it's one thing to be upcycling old clothes and stuff it's another thing to say no I'm this is what I want to do yeah I was in middle school so around you know 11 when it was sort of the beginning of the blog era and I think it was like an amazing time to be a kid dreaming of being in fashion because there was just this gigantic resource that had never existed before of people taking you behind the scenes of this is what it's like to you know, go backstage at a show and I'm sitting front row and this is what I'm wearing and here's who I'm sitting with and then reviewing the collection.

8:03So I would come home from middle school and I would look at the Sartorialist and Susie Bubble and Tavi Gevinson and all of those people. And Tavi was my age. So I was like, there's a 13 year old girl who is also from Chicago sitting front row at Prada. That's insane. And so I think that through that was an amazing education of understanding all of the different facets of the industry, the stylists, the bloggers, the writers, the difference, you know, between the design team and sort of the universe that exists around it. And I think that originally I thought, oh, maybe I could be a stylist, but I think then slowly as I learned more I started you know watching old McQueen runway shows on YouTube I started thinking no I really want to be a part of the making of the creative process and the physical making of the clothes and so I became just in love with it from the outside.

9:09And so I started trying to find my way to get to the industry. And so I was taking classes at the Art Institute of Chicago. They had like pre-college courses. So they were fashion illustration courses and figure drawing and introduction to pattern making. And then I was kind of around all of these students who were, you know, in a university level of fashion design, seeing what they were wearing to class. And I knew that's exactly where I wanted to be. Why McQueen? Like, why was that the designer that spoke to you? That was sort of, I think, my entryway into really wanting to be a designer. And I think because it wasn't about product, it wasn't about clothing as an item, it wasn't about selling handbags it was about the performance and I think I always wanted it to feel like I think it was almost performance art and I think that felt so special and that was ultimately what I wanted to be doing was to create these sort of like the world around it the experience the the the lighting, the casting.

10:28And then there was always, you know, an epic moment of transformation and theatrics that I just fell in love with. And I wanted to make something that had that moment of emotional impact. Was there a particular show that you remember seeing around that time? I remember I was 13 years old when it was the Plato's Atlantis show. And that was such a big deal because it was this live stream and it was the first time ever that somebody who was in their childhood bedroom could be accessing the moment and the magic and the emotion of the show at the same time that all the editors sitting front row were.

11:17And I know there was like the website crash, there was all these things, but I know that I like came home from school and watched it as a 13 year old and the, the hair and makeup, they had all the prosthetics, the, the big shoes that was, and it was just like a look that had never happened before. And I think it's even at that time you kind of thought nobody could possibly design something that I haven't already seen and it was this thing that you had never seen before and hadn't been done and I just it just totally blew my mind that there was still something to be discovered and something new and something transformative and then I think that just opened me to go back and look at every other show that he had done.

12:08And there's the Shalom Harlow with the robot. And I love the mirrored box, everybody, the women looking in the mirror. All of those shows were just like, that was the thing. Guess who I interviewed for this podcast on Monday? Who? Nick Knight. And we spent some time talking about Plato's Atlantis. It's so funny that you raise that show because it was such a defining show you know it was such a big moment but when i look at your work colleen when i look at you know what you're doing i want to understand how you went from like getting interested in that like theatrical what you just called performance art to your journey to finding your creative process so let's talk about you so let's talk about how you got into you you decided to go to fashion school right you went to parsons tell me the story of how you decided to go do an internship or a i guess it was like a summer abroad or a course a semester abroad at saint martin's and then you transferred and never came back to parsons yes so i i started at parsons i always wanted to get myself to New York.

13:27Getting here was just like such an incredible moment. I think I felt so free to like become the person that I always wanted to become. And I learned so much. And I did my first two years at Parsons in New York. But I think I always had an itch in the back of my mind to go to London, but it felt something that was too big or too hard from Chicago. I think it was already a very big deal for me to even go to fashion school at all. And so why is that for my, it took a lot of convincing for my parents that it would be something that was, would turn into a job, would turn into a career that I could support myself with, but I think that I worked so hard to get myself to Parsons through all of these summer courses, all of my free time in high school that by the end, they did really understand that I was serious and it was something I wanted to do.

14:30Is there anything you said to them to convince them that you can have a serious, meaningful, fulfilling, and potentially lucrative career working in fashion? Like, how did you convince your parents of that? I think I really put in so much work and I worked so hard and I dedicated so much of my free time that I could have been out with friends doing these things. I was quite serious about it from a really young age. And I think they just saw that and really respected it and took it seriously because I was taking it seriously. And I don't know if it's something I could have ever said to them to convince them.

15:15I think they just had to see my love for it. And yeah, they, they talk about it all the time now that I think they saw it and that was really what it was. And I think it was the same thing. I think, yeah, I think London felt just a bit one step too far. It was already I was really getting myself to this big place and this big moment to get to New York and to get to Parsons. But I always had an itch of London in the back of my mind. I had never been before. It was for me just such a cultural touchstone of so many of my heroes had come out of London and the scene around it. So, you know, like McQueen, I always loved David Bowie And these just like kind of really special characters of culture all were sort of tied to London.

16:07So I did the study abroad program, which was my third year of school, the fall semester. And I got there. And the second my first week, I was like, I got to stay. I I can't leave. This is where I'm supposed to be. I just felt it. I knew it. And I went up to Sarah Gresti, who was in her first week, I think, of taking over the fashion program. And I said, I'd like to stay. And she said, I that's not how this works. And it was an automatic no. I thought, no, I'm going to figure it out. I'm going to find a way to stay. And so I just I really had an amazing time there. I made really great friends. And.

16:58Eventually, by the end of the first semester, they said, OK, you can stay one semester, one more, finish out the year. And what convinced them for you to stay? I just fit in well there. What was incredible was I was studying menswear. St. Martens is such a small program. It's very different from Parsons in the way that it's set up. and Parsons is set up where you have different classes. You're mixed in with different people for different class. It's very much like any traditional American university, but St. Martin's is a studio base. You're with the same people every day and the program is very small.

17:40So there was less than 30 of us in menswear. There was maybe 26. And so you really spent all of your time with this small group of people. And I just meshed in really well with everyone there. I made really great friends. And so they thought, okay, she might be a good fit for this sort of overall group of people. And then by the end of it, I was presenting my final project and Chris knew who was the head of men said, we're going to consider this, your interview for the program, you're welcome to stay. We'd love to have you. And that was like the most amazing, special moment for me. I mean, that's so amazing for you to have advocated for yourself like that at a young age, both with your parents and then with the, you know, St.

18:35Martin's sometimes it's scary there. You know, I used to teach there for 10 years. Like it's, it's an amazing place, but it's not an easy place. You know, there's a lot of unwritten rules and expectations about how you're supposed to operate there. And so for you to find the your voice and advocate for yourself the way you did is like really impressive. Thank you. Yeah, I mean, I felt like it was a huge privilege to be there. and I knew how important it was. I knew how big the opportunity was and I just fell in love with it and it just felt right. And I always, you know, I wanted to come in with respect for, you know, I hadn't gone through that, that admissions process is incredibly intense.

19:25And so I understood that I hadn't gone through the same process that everyone else was there in. And I wanted to be respectful of that um and yeah I was I'm so glad that I got to stay I'm so grateful it was it was incredible and then did the London scene that you were

19:47aspiring to be a part of based on you know David Bowie and McQueen and did that live up to your expectations? Like what was it like for you outside of school? Yeah. I mean, I think the most magical part was St. Martin's itself. I think that people would show up to a 9am class with a, you know, face paint, a head to toe look in gigantic heels and just to walk around and go to lunch in the cafeteria. And like, that was the magic of it really. So I think that that was part of it. And I think there still was definitely like culture around London, just going to, you know, see music and just be out.

20:37But I think that for me, that was really the center of my experience. When you got to St. Martin's, did you feel like there were things you had to unlearn? because the way the Parsons program works, the philosophy of American fashion and American fashion education is so different from the British perspective on fashion and the British fashion education. Like how did you find that transition from the kind of really structured, somewhat commercial approach to like fashion school in the US and you get to a place like St. Martin's, which is fundamentally an art school, like, you know, it's a creative school.

21:22I think that it was, like, the perfect mix of experiences. I think that Parsons was quite rigid and strict, but I got a lot of technical foundation that I don't think that I would have gotten otherwise that gave me, like, the confidence that once that I got to St. Martin's and it just like the doors opened it was like floodgates opened it was just so open and free and I think had I not had that foundation of this very practical things of you know how to sew different kinds of pockets and put a zipper in a trouser and that technical confidence then I was able to just be free and have space and time to think and research.

22:18It's such a research focused program. They have an incredible library that you're given permission to just sit in the library for a full week and figure out what it is that you want to do. And I just, that was never something that Parsons had space for. And so I think that it was like this huge relief and it was it but it was the perfect timing so you loved london you lovest martin's but you moved back to new york right yes why so between my third and fourth year atst martin's they do a year out to work it's called a placement year and so on my placement year i was just looking for an internship and happened to end up back in New York.

23:10I got my first semester, I interned at Vogue magazine, and then I was at Calvin Klein 205 when Raph was there for my second semester. So it just happened to be the opportunities that worked out for me and then headed back to do my final year in London. And then, and then I just, it was sort of, I thought I was going to stay in London. I thought I was going to be in Europe, but it was a really hard time. It was just because it was right after Brexit. I think everyone trying to figure out a visa, being a very junior entry level person in these European companies, It was a big challenge as an American.

23:57So I ended up back in New York, not necessarily by choice, but then ended up working at The Row, which was an amazing opportunity. And so I was very happy to be here in the end. From McQueen to The Row is like two very different worlds, right? Like, tell me, I mean, it's such a mysterious company, secretive company, I guess we'd say like The Row and how it works. And clearly it's been so successful. What did you learn there that you've now brought to your own company? It must be very interesting to see the inside of that place. yeah I learned so much it was such an incredible place to have my first job in the industry because I don't think I realized when I first started how kind of special it was but they do things just at the utmost quality level there's no saying no to making things in the most beautiful way.

25:00The materials that we worked with were way beyond anything else you're seeing, just sitting next to it in a department store. And so just thinking about quality and thinking about how can you improve a product to be the absolute best version of itself, that was an entirely new training that you didn't get any of in school because it really wasn't the point. So it was a wholly new education on what luxury is and what making something beautiful and intentional and made to last is about. I mean, it's kind of phenomenal because there's such purists about everything that you speak of quality and the way they show their clothes the way they present their stores you know in a way there's a dogma around it because it's a very very rigid in terms of like the way they want to do things and they not every company or business as you probably well know has the resources or ability to do that and often when they are like that they don't make money but they've been so commercially successful as well which is what i've always found so that i found that tension so impressive you know that they've been so dogged about sticking to their guns on all the quality stuff and they still make it work yeah it's really amazing we'll be right back with more on the bof podcast

26:44Colleen Allen: This episode is brought to you by Macy's. Mark your calendars for September 8th, as Macy's has just brought together six of the most iconic names in American fashion for one exclusive capsule collection. Tommy Hilfiger, Michael Kors, and Donna Karan, alongside some of the industry's most exciting newer voices, like Jonathan Cohen, The Ophelio, and La Pointe. Six designers, six completely different takes on fall. And every piece is exclusive to Macy's. These pieces are only around for a limited time, so don't sleep on this one. Head to Macy's on September 8th to shop the collection before it's gone for good.

27:25Your call has been forwarded to an automatic voice message system. A missed call doesn't feel like anything. No red flag, no notifications screaming at you. It just disappears into your call log. And nine times out of ten, that was someone ready to hand you money. That's why today's episode is brought to you by Quo, spelled Q-U-O, the business phone system built so you never miss a call. Here's what I like about it. All your calls, texts, and voicemails live in one place, so anyone on your team can pick up a conversation, see the full history, and respond fast. No more, wait, who talked to this customer last?

28:01And if you're worried about after-hours leads slipping through, Quo's optional built-in AI agent can answer questions and even book appointments while your team's offline. It's the number one rated business phone system on G2, and over 90 ,000 businesses already trust it to stay reachable. Money is on the line. Always say hello with Quo. Try Quo for free. Plus, get 20 % off your first six months when you go to quo.com slash tech. That's Q-U-O dot com slash tech.

28:33so i guess you spent a you spent a while there but at some stage you got the itch to do your own thing yes so i was always doing menswear up until this point so i had studied menswear and focused on menswear from my very first semester at parsons carried that through to St. Martin's. And then when I started at the row, I was very strictly intentional that I was there to do menswear. And I think I thought that's what I was going to do forever. I loved it. I found it to be like a really special challenge as a woman. It felt like I got to do something kind of outside of myself and think about things from an outside perspective.

29:25But I just, it became a kind of personal shift where I was a woman in my mid twenties who had no connection to my femininity, to my body, to my understanding of what it feels like or means to be a woman in the moment. And I think it is a large part of my way of processing the world around me is through fashion. And it's about embodiment for me. And so to do menswear was me kind of putting that away from myself and it not being about me. And I thought that just eventually those sort of understandings and self-discovery would just come. And I realized that the only way I was going to be able to create that space for myself and my sort of own becoming into myself was to be creative, to work through fashion and process my experience that way.

30:37So that was sort of the moment that I realized that I needed to leave, do women's wear and make it personal. That's a lot of big decisions to take, not just to leave, but also to create your own thing. So how did you start? What were your first steps? You know, you leave the row, steady job, prestigious fashion company, probably lots of cool people working there and then all of a sudden it's just you yeah I took a consulting job so I was doing a little consulting at Calvin Klein just a couple days a week just to give myself that sort of transition that stability and I had a collection once I once I left and created a little bit of free space creatively, I knew what I wanted to make.

31:38And so I got a studio space and I just started to make things. I'd bring in some seamstresses. I didn't have any factories yet. And I just tried to make it about the work first, make the collection. And then once the collection was kind of out of my body and out of my mind, I would be able to know if it was maybe worthy of making into something real. I didn't want to take on all of that pressure at the same time from the beginning. I think it would have gotten in my way and I wanted to not get in my own way or in my own head about how it presented as a brand and all of those sort of things. So you were literally just making things just for yourself, for your body to express your femininity.

32:34And you didn't really think about how it fit together in a collection plan or merchandising or any of that. It was just creating the clothes. Yeah, it was just it had to just come out of me. It was like a possession that just I needed to release it. And I didn't want to put any restrictions. yeah what did you learn from that first that way of creating because it's coming from a really personal place like once you know a collection was out whether it was defined as a collection or not it was a series of garments or things that you were expressing in a way how did that work for you as a creative process i think that I had been restricted in some sense for such a long time thinking about men's not being able to put things I mean I could put them on myself and wear them but not you know properly fit things to just having sort of physical emotional intuitive responses to everything so when I was picking out fabric it was a lot about the hand about touching things about you know getting to take the appointments myself to select all the fabrics and all of those colors and it just being about that just intuitive draw and something that I wanted to feel against my body and letting myself just react and respond and I think that never having done women's wear before, I was also able to have a bit of a naive perspective that allowed a lot of freedom as well.

34:24And everything felt new. Everything felt fresh. I had never designed a dress before. I had never thought about certain materials, working with chiffons and how am I finishing that and what feels like my way of finishing that. And so there was no previous connection to a way that I would have done something five, 10 years ago. It was all new. And so that just allowed me to just be completely open, receptive and reactive, and also not be, I knew in the back of my mind, I had a timeline that I was like, maybe the upcoming fashion week, I could release this. But again, I was just waiting to see if that would happen.

35:09So how did you know when the time was right to kind of take that step to show it to people? I think that there was a bit of. I think that's sort of the beauty of fashion is that it's never done, but you got to keep it moving every, you know, every few months. It's it's time to let it go. and start something new. And I had met with a couple people. So once I, you know, put together a small collection, I brought in my friend, Greg, who is now still my PR. And he and I, I was an intern at Vogue. He was working there and we became friends ever since stayed in touch. I knew he was working for another PR team and he was the only person I knew in PR.

36:00So I said, could you come look at this and tell me what I should do with it? And he walked in and he was like, I think you need to show this. I'm going to call my boss and bring her here to come look at it. And they immediately were like, yes, let's do this. And so it was just sort of the like vote of confidence that I need. And it was from a friend that I trusted and he had brought in, And then he brought in some different people to meet about representing it wholesale. And there were certain people who said, you need to triple this before you start. And then Rachel, who is my current wholesale rep, said, this is perfect.

36:40We can do this. And so she represented it. He represented it on PR. And we just sort of put it out there. And that was that. And how long ago was this calling? so that would have been in february of 2024 i believe yeah wow so all of that has happened a lot has happened since that in the last like not even two years i guess just over two not even three years i guess tell us about the business today and like what you what you feel like you're building with two and a half years or so of a track record now from those initial votes of confidence like what's what's the business today so it's been really exciting and growing very quickly which is amazing it's been triple digit growth year over year now working with big retailers like Net-a-Porter, Moda Operandi, and then also with the Dover Street markets and all the sort of local boutiques were about 60 % in the US and then about 35 % in Europe and then the last 5 % in Asia.

38:08But it's been really successful in terms of retail and our partners have been really supportive. And so that's been, it's been,

38:25it's hard. It's hard to keep up with the growth. It's a lot of chicken or the egg in terms of expanding and growing a business, but I am entirely self-funded and the team is really just me full-time I've got consultants for PR for wholesale just you I have somebody who's consulting for production but nobody full-time so so you're basically running this operation on your own with a bunch of outside contractors and freelancers funded completely on your own as well. Yes. So we are always kind of being funded by the orders from the previous season, but it's always a challenge because we are growing so quickly and the orders are bigger season over season.

39:23It's, it's about keeping with that pace, being really intentional with what we say yes to and who we're working with and making sure they're people we trust. And so that's been so important is I think the people that I am working with understand, don't push me out of my comfort zone. And we're trying to build it in a slow way and not let it hit that sort of burning point. So, yeah. Well, triple digit growth is hard to manage, particularly from a cash flow perspective. One of the lessons I used to teach when I was teaching at St. Martin's was about how cash flow works. So maybe the most important lesson.

40:08It really is the single most important lesson because it can feel really tempting to take all of these orders. But what people don't often appreciate is you take the order, but very rarely, or only if you're very convincing, are you able to get any money for that order until two or three months after you've invested in the fabrics, you've invested in the manufacturing, you've gone out to the market to sell it, and they get a delivery. And so what I always used to advise my students was, if you can, try to get a deposit to help you fund the collection. So how are you on your own, self-funded, managing to fund triple digit growth from a cashflow perspective?

40:54How are you doing that? We are really only working with people on a deposit basis. Otherwise it's impossible. And so that I'm very grateful that within the current retail clients, people have been accommodating for those terms because it's the only way it works. Yeah. Have you said no to people who say, because not everyone is willing to pay a deposit. Have you said no to some retailers? Yeah. We have. Yeah. But it's, it's important. Yeah. I think it's so smart. And there's, if there's one thing I think any, anyone listening today should take away from this conversation is just really managing cash flow because I've seen so many high potential, really talented, creative people just get into trouble when it comes to cash flow.

41:45And when you run out of cash, like it doesn't matter how talented you are, it doesn't matter how much demand there is in the market. Cash, as they say, is king or as in your case, maybe queen. But yeah, that's really smart. So congratulations on doing that. Okay. So where do you go from here, Colleen? This is all very exciting. It's all happened in two and a half years. What are you thinking about? I just want to keep going and growing in the direction that I am now. I think that I would love to be able to, a large part of my business now is wholesale. I want to be investing that back into my direct consumer business that will really help manage and fund the business with cash flow as well.

42:36But then creatively, you know, I love thinking about back to the McQueen of it all. What is the world building around it? What is the, I love creating imagery. I love, you know, I would love to have a runway show eventually, but again, being thoughtful about when that makes sense for me. But for now, like to scratch that itch, it's been about creating imagery and so working with my friend Clark who has a magazine Cross Current which is based in London he's been a friend of mine and has been helping me with art direction and so being able to create campaigns we just did one with Senta Simmon who I really love and have admired sort of bringing people into the world and creating more than just the product but like who our woman is, where does she live, you know, building that out visually and emotionally, I think is like the fun of it for me at the end of the day.

43:38So I'd love to sort of keep being able to expand that. And same with the way that we approach, you know, press as well. And like VIP, it's been so cool to sort of bring different characters from culture into the universe as well and see the way that they sit into it and I just think that keeps me inspired and thinking about the way that those women which kind of women react to which pieces and where they're embodying that and in ways that I wouldn't have thought of or with people that I wouldn't have thought of just sort of creates a new evolution each season well listen that's that sounds really exciting I guess in the next few weeks there's a lot going on for you with the lvmh prize finals and your new york fashion week show and then sales and showroom in paris you have a lot ahead of you one thing i just wanted to conclude on was to figure out how you're kind of balancing being a human and like going through all of this like that's a lot that you've taken on so what are your practices for making things manageable from a life standpoint it's a great question i think it's so so important to create that balance and i think i think the way that i've learned about it is that there are moments that are balanced and there are moments that are unbalanced and as, and that's okay too.

45:24So, you know, in the next month, when all of these incredible, exciting things are happening, it will be a bit unbalanced. But after that, I'm going to, you know, take time to see friends for dinner and walk my dogs outside and, you know, spend time with my fiance and just, you know sleep I always I never I never even however busy I am I'm somebody who cannot run on not sleeping so I will always sleep and I will be a much better more productive version of myself in the morning and that's my thing some people live for the all-nighter which is not me but yeah I think it's about working through what are the times of balance and what are the times that you have to just accept and submit to the flow of it and let go.

46:19Because I think that there's also pressure in that too, of trying to remain balanced when you can't, but always, you know, making sure to take days off. And even if you're thinking about things in the back of your mind, I think when you have a creative practice, no matter what you do, it's always there. even if you're on a walk or you're taking a swim, you're like, oh, I should use that button on that top. So I think creating space around it does make the work better. So I try to remind myself of that. I have a question for you that I've started asking at the end of these podcasts, which is a recommendation of books that you would recommend other young creative people read?

47:11Is there anything that comes to mind? You know, I actually read the McQueen and Galliano book, Gods and Kings, and it was at a perfect time that I read it. It was maybe a year and a half ago. what was amazing was them the moment of the book talking about the point of the career that I am in now was so amazing to think about these sort of people that you turn into legends in your head that are so far away from the moment that I'm in in my career and thinking about that there was a moment in the book where Galeano had a exclusive with Bergdorf's and he sent it to them and he was fitting all the clothes on himself and none of the clothes fit anybody any of the ladies who are trying to buy it at Bergdorf's and those are the things that I was like I'm okay you know there are mistakes that are made and he has still created this incredible collection and legacy everybody is in this moment of their career at some point and so to sort of humanize these people that I've put on pedestals that was very helpful for me aside from that what do I love okay Um, another book that I loved reading, which was an inspiration for my collection for spring, summer 25 was it's called the red, red comet.

48:47It's a biography of Sylvia Plath. I really, really loved that book. And I think it was also just an incredible encapsulation of a creative woman who was sort of tortured by her work and yet always found that desire to be making things. And I just think she's such a special historical character and represented what women have gone through to have their own creative voices. Colleen, thank you for those recommendations. And thank you for sharing your story. You told me this is your first ever podcast. You did great. And I think lots of people are going to be really inspired listening to your journey.

49:40Thank you so much for having me. I really enjoyed it. Likewise. And I hope to see you in Paris. Absolutely. I can't wait to see what happens with the prize and with your show this season. So congratulations. Thank you so much. Thank you again for having me. Of course. Bye. Bye.

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