Would You Let AI Shop for You?

0:07Hello and welcome to The Debrief from the Business of Fashion where each week we delve into our most popular BOF professional stories with the correspondents who created them. I'm senior correspondent Sheena Butler-Young. And I'm executive editor Brian Baskin. You've told Siri to set a timer and ask ChatGPT to edit an email, but would you let either of them pick your wardrobe? A new wave of AI startups promises to do just that. Ask you a few smart questions, scan your closet, cross-check your calendar, and then pick, pay, and ship across multiple retailers. Big players like OpenAI, Google, and Propexity are already frontrunners in the race.

0:45And upstarts like Viteer, Fia, and Jensmo say they have the edge on fashion-specific taste and tooling. But do consumers really want AI shopping assistance? Today, we're joined by BOF's Malik Morris to break down what it will take for consumers to actually let AI shop for them. Malik, welcome back to The Debrief. Thank you for having me. So excited to get into if, you know, a computer can do the shopping for you. This is going to be a fun conversation. Indeed. I agree. And thank you, Sheena, for saying the name of all those startups. We're in the phase of the tech hype cycle where there's a lot of weird words out there I don't want to learn how to pronounce.

1:20This is one of those topics where I know it's the right time to talk about it because between scheduling the episode and actually recording it, there's like five major bits of breaking news on this exact subject. And we'll get into that in a bit. But first, I think it would be helpful, Malik, if you can explain what is an AI shopping agent and why is everyone talking about it right now? Yeah. So I think it'd be good for me to actually take a step back and give you a layer of the land, right? So right now, when it comes to online shopping, consumers are expecting prime personalization whenever they're buying something on the interwebs, you know, and that's come honestly after years of people being spoiled by for you pages on TikTok and on Netflix that like when you open up a feed is going to look like exactly what you want to look like based on your tastes and preferences.

2:05But to be honest, you know personalization e-commerce for the most part has been algorithm recommending items for you based on what you've already browsed or purchased an ai shopping agent on the other hand is supposed to learn the shopper and can act on their behalf so in theory these agents can respond to very specific prompts like buy me a revenge dress for my ex-boyfriend's wedding in paris who cheated on me and his girlfriend is prettier and it will find the right option based on what it knows about the shopper's preferences and can even complete the transaction for a person. So it's really, really cutting edge.

2:39And, you know, Brian, you were mentioning this earlier, there's two players getting into this, you know, there's the AI powered search giant, you know, the open AI, the chat GPT, the perplexities of the world, and they're launching checkout on their search engines, which is really big because they're kind of the pioneers in being able to respond to those very specific kind of prompts. But then also the e-commerce giants are introducing AI shopping assistants, like Amazon announced a shopping assistant this month called Help Me decide that personalizes results based on a person's browsing, searching and purchase history on the platform.

3:10And that's pretty big, not only because Amazon is big, but Amazon is like the Google of online shopping. Like that's where people go just to search for stuff. But then there's also, you know, a bunch of AI powered shopping platforms like Viteer and Gensmo, OneOff and Bento that are creating their own AI agents. So it's safe to say that agents of commerce is here and we need to get prepared for it. I'm going to push back. I don't think it's safe to say that yet because none of these has actually proven they can successfully at scale actually shop for people. And I want to get into that back and forth in a little bit.

3:42But first, can you actually explain what do these startups do? We keep mentioning the same three here. Why don't we just talk about those really quickly and explain how they're different from, you know, the instant checkout with ChatGPT that I think a lot of our listeners have heard about. So, you know, what they do is also about like the value they're supposed to add. So like the value that the AI agent is supposed to add is like, it depends on the platform that you're using them on. So we were talking about like, you know, OpenAI and them launching checkout on chat GPT last month, the perplexity offering, you know, automatic checkout to paid subscribers.

4:16You know, the benefit is that they respond to the most specific granular prompts. So a step beyond a generic search, but they're pulling results from all over the internet. So it's not really personalized. These AI powered shopping startups, which is obviously a mouthful, like the Gensmo and the Patias of the World, are learning the user. So many of them start as styling tools where consumers can upload images of items they own, and they're giving them outfit and new product recommendations. And some of these platforms have access to users' calendars, and they can recommend items based on upcoming events and things that you don't have in your closet that they think you should, gaps in your wardrobe.

4:54So by the time a customer asks an agent on these platforms for like a sultry dinner date in the south of France, something for that, the tool knows what they're looking for and can confidently buy something on their behalf. And again, the value goes to, from the agent really depends on the platform you're interacting with it on. And these AI shopping agents are like trying to cut through the noise even further by saying like, we're going to know intuitively exactly how you want to dress. We know what you're missing in your wardrobe. We know what you're going to be doing on a Saturday night and how to dress you for that.

5:22There are even platforms that have features that they'll generate avatars and will generate avatars in those settings as well. So we know how you're going to look when you wear this stuff. So that's really the value they're trying to bring here. Question on the value of that. It was funny because you were talking earlier about like, you know, trying to have a revenge dress for your boyfriend's wedding. I have never, or ex-boyfriend's wedding. I don't think that's me. I don't think that's, I don't think I'm, that doesn't sound like something I would be doing. I wouldn't be invited. That is me. I would not be invited, nor would I go.

5:51But I was very curious because I had done this thing before, like around one of the fashion months, I like put something in chat GPT. And obviously this is where these new platforms are trying to have their edge, right? I put it in chat GPT and it gave me the most generic cringe, like you should wear a nice coat and like boots for fashion week. So it doesn't know. And these platforms claim to know who is the person that's going to one of these new fashion specific platforms and asking for advice. Cause it's not me. Like I would never go out of my way to go to the next step and ask anybody to tell me online?

6:23Well, Sheena, you're, you're quite fashionable and, um, very self-assured. I think that's what you wanted to hear. Uh, but you know, I think it's true also, and you should check out her Instagram if you don't, don't believe her, but I do think it's probably not for you. I think it is probably more for someone like me who like, Like I think I dress fine, but I'm not like necessarily, you know, the most confident flashy dresser. And I think I could use a tip here and there. I'm sure you guys can chime in and reassure me. Are you downloading Jensmo? Do you have a product? No, but I have used Daydream, which is similar to what we've been describing here.

7:03And it is basically, it's like, you know, a sort of slicker version of Chachi BT and you can converse with it and say, I want this. It shows you a bunch of red shirts. You say, I actually want yellow shirts. And it shows you that. It walks you through it and it recommends brands you might not have come across otherwise. If you tell it to be more daring, it will. I mean, I can see the appeal. Have any of these reached a point where they replace how I would shop normally? Not so sure yet, but maybe we get there. I thought I'd mention that by saying that it's actually for the two of you combined.

7:35So the early adopters of these AI agents are people who are avid shoppers who love new technology. So something like a Daydream is a really great platform because it is just being the chat GPT for fashion. But these platforms are different in that they're requiring you to upload items of your wardrobe. They're basically asking you to download your closet onto their platforms. So you have to like love the process of shopping to want to do that. And you have to be willing to adopt new technologies. You know, now how many of these people exist right now is probably a small number, a thousand, maybe a few million, you know.

8:08But that's enough for these startups to test and learn to perfect their tools before it's adopted by a wider audience. You know, and I think, you know, when it comes to agentic shopping, it's partially that there's an audience here, but a small one, and partially a build it and they will come scenario. You know, like think of like the dot-com boom. No one was necessarily asking for e-commerce, but the innovators knew it was a form of commerce that would become indemnics to consumerism once the two were widely available. And there may have been a bubble, you know, we know, and that burst and it may have caused some ugly fallouts for startups.

8:40But those innovations were correct. Look at how we shop and consume things today. And if anyone thinks this won't get off the ground unless regular people use AI agents, they're right. But that's not going to happen until it's available everywhere. You know, I think, you know, a tangible example is, you know, maybe a small subset of shoppers crave like self-checkout and willing to use it. But it wasn't until Target and CVS and Uniqlo made that like a primary way to check out in their stores that it became second nature for consumers across generations of regions to buy things in stores. And I think something similar can can happen here as well.

9:14And honestly, to be frank, a lot of these startups will fail, like the ones that died in the dot-com boom. But the ones that survive on their own or are inevitably acquired by Google, Amazon, or OpenAI will have contributed to this sort of irreversible change in consumer behavior, if that makes sense. This is a question that really interests me, which is how good do these have to get for people to actually use them in their everyday lives? And I think that's the question with everything involving AI is if you really look at your answers you're getting, they're probably like 80 % of the way there.

9:46But that other 20 % keeps you from really trusting it. And I wonder, let's say FIO's recommendations are really great 90 % of the time and the other 10%, they're just hilariously off the mark. are people going to look at that and go, Hey, this is usually pretty good. Or are they going to look at it and go, this thing is kind of all over the place and it's easier for me to just shop for myself. I'm thinking about it. Like just with like the advent of chat GPT to begin with, right? Like it was sloppy and messy and like, didn't give you accurate stuff, but like that didn't stop us from playing with it.

10:18That didn't stop us from like continuing to feed it. And I think something similar can happen when it comes to the shopping AI tools, you know, like, no, it's not going to get it completely right. No, it's not going to even these platforms that are claiming to like know you really well based on what you already own and based on what you're telling, you know, these these these agents you like. No, it's not going to be 100 percent accurate of what you would want. But I think the idea specifically for these startups, there's this idea of like you're just going to continue to feed it because it wants to know you so well that it knows that you hate the color.

10:49You want to be dead and red. You know, it wants to get that good, but that's not going to happen until it has people like playing with it. And in terms of what they've been telling me, they do have users on their platform, whether they're beta testing or whether they've officially launched. But I don't think that it's necessarily consumers are expecting 100 percent accuracy. Oh, I disagree. I disagree. Because to look at what you just said there, yeah, we're all playing with JATGPT. We're using it for this and that. I would never let it fill out a mortgage application for me. I would never give it my credit card.

11:21That 10 percent really matters when there's money involved. I think the incentive bit is where I'm lost. I think I still don't know the incentive to take the first step to even try to get it to help me is I think where I keep going back to. So, OK, so we're just going to get into this. I cover the space. I love it. I feel very confident in my ability to put clothes together. So I don't think that I need this tool yet. However, I think to the point that you were making, Brian, this idea of like not because the big part of the agent, the agent and the lore of it is this idea that it can check out on your behalf.

11:57To be clear, it's not necessarily buy me a revenge dress right now and I just trust you. It's show me those options. And then after a while saying, hey, can you buy these shoes for me or can you buy me a pair of sleek loafers? And it knows you. But that's like the 20th, maybe even the 100th interaction you've had with this tool. It's not like the first interaction. That's what I'm saying. Like the accuracy of it is all based on how much you play with it. It's not like, hey, I just downloaded for tier. And now I upload my closet. Buy me a new, you know, cashmere coat for the winter. And it's going to know exactly what I want with no objections and can do the transaction on my behalf.

12:36No, we're going to have to talk quite a few times to get to that point. And I think that there are consumers that are patient. And I think that there are like hundreds of thousands of consumers, maybe even millions of consumers that are going to be that patient. And again, does that mean that they're going to be like this immediate winner right now? And when it comes to these startups, probably not. But I do think that they're planting the seeds for what consumer behavior is going to be in 10 years time, even five years time. So that's the argument that I'm making rather than, you know, it needs to be correct right now and we need to see this mass adoption right now.

13:09I don't think that that's going to happen anytime soon. It sounds like you're saying the real unlock is going to be the agency, that it can do some things on my behalf if it gets to know me and then it's more efficient. It frees me up the way the chat GPT theoretically does for some of us. Like it could help me send a quick email and frees me up for the more human version of what I could be doing. Yeah. And again, the unlock is getting to know you and the tension that, you know, Brian is always so great and like getting out of us is like is the who wants this? Like who wants to be the guinea pigs for this?

13:38And I think that there are plenty of people out there. I am not one of them who are going to be the guinea pigs for this, you know, in a meaningful way. But, you know, all that remains to be seen. But I do think that we are we're here. That's why I said like agent of commerce is here because the tools are being built and experimentation is happening. Like people are going to be conditioned the same way they were conditioned, you know, when Netflix, you know, wrote out their algorithms and they were picking films for you based on what you watched before. The same way, you know, TikTok and Instagram, these for you pages, like it's here, it's happening and it's only going to get more efficient.

14:09What about on like a normal brands website? Like what is a credible AI shopping agents agent look like today? And does it exist? Like I know one that comes up a lot is the Axe Ralph. I attempted to ask Ralph before this segment and I could not find it on the website. Maybe that's just me. But it's on the app. It's on the app. Oh, I have to have an app. See, how do I know that? How am I supposed to know? Well, I mean, if you love shopping, you first of all, all brands should have apps. And if you love shopping, you should. Oh, I disagree. OK, that's a whole other episode. But I completely disagree.

14:40I hate brand apps. No, brand apps. Are you joking? I'm going to go to different apps every time. It's ridiculous. I'm with Brian on that one. I would never find it because I'm not going to download the app. No, but to your point about this, I think the incredible brand-owned agents, you mentioned Ralph Lauren, and they've launched the chatbot Axe Ralph on their app. But that essentially functions like a chat GPT-like service. You can put input funky prompts and get results based on what's in their brand's product catalog. And I think that's useful because consumers are expecting more advanced search functions on any digital platform, right, whether it's social media, whether it's streaming, whether it's shopping.

15:17and there are software companies that are creating tools that are closer to the types of AI agents that look up at T or Jensmore building but for the brands themselves you know there's this e-commerce software company called Swap and they have a tool that a brand can integrate into their site which is like a shopping agent that can also generate avatars and display goods on you and offer styling advice although it's not yet completing transaction on users behalf so there's options for brands to offer something similar on their own sites it's just a matter of whether brands are ready to adopt that technology yet.

15:46You know, I need to have more conversation with brands to see how they feel. And, you know, I am going to be having conversations about their thoughts on AI in general. So stay tuned. But, you know, there's credible resources for them to get started on this as well. Let's talk more about that, though. I mean, you said before what these startups, what OpenAI are going to do is train people to use them and to trust the algorithms behind them. How does that change fashion? I mean, how does that change how brands and retailers interact with customers? I think that this is all about finding the right fit for the person in question.

16:21I don't know that it's necessarily about the brand needing to change their product assortment. Because again, this is all about business, right? It's about increasing conversion. It's also maybe about increasing average order value, right? Because maybe I'm looking for just a beautiful olive green sweater and it knows me so well that it knows that I'm also maybe thinking about getting you know a pair of jeans that will go for it or a pair of olive you know pants that will go with it but I didn't necessarily tell it that a lot of this just to back up even further and I probably should have said that at the top of our conversation these AI shopping agents are really supposed to be about replicating the in-store salesperson so when you go into a shop it's not necessarily that if i come in there me as a customer i need to redesign your collection and saying well you don't have enough olive and so therefore this sucks it's like no there's probably something here for me but i don't i don't work here so i don't know all that you have the salesperson also go into the back of the stock room and say there's this thing that we don't even have on the floor that's exactly what you're looking for based on the conversation that you and i would have that's what these shopping agents trying to do in a digitized environment so i don't know that it's necessarily going to call for brands to like rethink how they're designing their goods.

17:36It's just about having these tools that are going to help them sell them better and help them get into the hands of the people who are actually really going to want them and have other things there for them to explore as well. You know? Well, I was thinking more about the Netflix effect or what you see with Spotify, where the algorithm does steer people towards certain types of content. The way people watch things has changed because of that algorithm. them. And it feels like maybe we're on the cusp of something similar happening in fashion. I think if you know what an LLM is going to serve up to people, if they ask, I want my revenge dress, maybe you start making different revenge dresses as a result.

18:14I think another way to ask the question is also who's capturing the value. This is probably a different question, but like who owns the most value from this? Is it the open AI tool or the large language model or the brand or the customer? Where does the value actually come in here? Like who's getting the most out of it? Who actually wins the most? Or is it supposed to be an even split? Yeah, I mean, well, ostensibly the consumer should be the winner. That's what they always say. That's what they always say. That's never true. I never took home a million dollars after I bought my revenge dress, unfortunately.

18:46No, no, but I mean, but another thing that, you know, I used to work in retail. I worked in retail for a decade before becoming a journalist. And that is a big part of the job. It's like you're there to make sure the consumer is getting exactly what they want. and opening them up to things that they didn't even think would work for them. And in that way, the ultimate value should come from these platforms, from these resources to the consumer. In terms of, like, who's going to win, I think outside of, like, the stupid answer of, like, the consumer is going to win, I think it's going to be who has the resources to perfect this.

19:21And this goes back to, you know, what we talked about when we discussed this before. They're going to see a lot of consolidation. You know, like, are any of these platforms going to be able to scale on their own to be the winner? Probably not. You're probably going to see them getting consumed into an open AI or consumed into a Google or consumed into an Amazon. And so those are really huge BMX. They're probably going to be the ones who are going to be the ultimate winners, to be honest.

19:49We'll be back with more of The Debrief right after this.

19:57Oh, I was also thinking about the Walmart news over the last few weeks. I think they're partnering with OpenAI on some of this. Like who also then is liable when these tools make mistakes? Like are they, they're so commingling the finances of this that everyone takes a stake in it when things go wrong as well? Like if it hallucinates and tells me that I can buy a product that doesn't exist on Walmart.com, who deals with that? Who faces the consequences of that? Well, if it doesn't exist, you couldn't buy it, right? Well, I guess the being peeved, I will be peeved. Is it OpenAI or is it Walmart?

20:29Well, actually, that's a good question for you, Sheena. Who would you be peeved at? Would you be peeved at OpenAI or Walmart? You know, I think it goes back to what I said in the beginning. I do, I like technology and I found ChatGPT to be helpful for a few things and other tools like that. But I'm generally kind of like, if I'm annoyed, I probably won't use it again. Like, this is stupid. Like you just told me I could buy this toothbrush that doesn't actually exist. I will be annoyed. And I probably won't use that again. See, I think it's risk-free. I think the reason brands, brands have been so eager to partner with these startups and with OpenAI because all the risk is on the AI companies.

21:03I mean, we blame their results. We don't blame Walmart for the fake toothbrush. Yeah, but I mean, also, I mean, this all goes into like the filtration that comes that these companies have to do to ensure their agents can detect if a product is sold or sold out or something. It doesn't even exist, you know, to that effect. You know, a lot of these platforms, you know, we're talking about, you know, ChatGPT, they're partnering with Etsy, they're partnering with Walmart, they're partnering with Shopify, with these brands directly on sites, meaning that they have access to their inventory level. So they should be able to tell us if they exist or not, you know, in terms of like they can pull search results across the Internet.

21:40And, you know, if that stuff is sold out or whatever, that's fine. But like if it's like being able to check out directly on the platform, that's with a partner that they're directly have access to what they own and what is available to buy. So those are among the guardrails. These startups, for one, are definitely taken into account. So that I think should be totally fine. But I actually want to go back to what you were saying, Sheena's idea of like, if it doesn't work, and also what Brian bring up earlier, if it doesn't work, then I don't want to use it. I have to say that I think that you are in the minority there.

22:13Like, I genuinely, I genuinely feel that way. Like, I don't think this is a dirty, mean term. And it's not directed at you, but I just don't think that I don't think that a lot of consumers today are Luddites. Like, I don't think that they're averse to technology. they're averse to like trying things out and like continuing to try things out i just don't it based on like knowing consumers and talking to them even like when going back to me working in retail when we would have certain things like you know having an ipad or like having mobile checkout consumers who you think would be averse to that you know whether and it's sort of an age assumption people who are older like oh yes give me that yes i'm sitting on the couch here's my card, you know, tap it right there.

22:54So I don't even got to get up. Like consumers are very much open to these advancements. So yeah, I don't know. I think that there's room for experimentation. I do think there's a large enough consumer base to allow that experimentation and that testing and learning to happen. So Malik, I fundamentally am on your side here that I actually think these will eventually take hold. But I also would say if something doesn't work, just because it's new tech doesn't mean people will be, they might be open to try it, but you know, you can just look at the last generation of, of what we were calling AI, Alexa, Siri.

23:30I mean, those are glorified kitchen timers when they were actually meant to do almost everything we're talking about these AI agents doing. And it's because they didn't really work all that well. And I think a lot of what we're seeing right now is it's better than Alexa. It's not quite at, I'm going to let this do all my shopping for me level. And we're in this weird gray area where I think it could go either way. I think you're right. It will eventually get there, but it's not, it's not there yet. It's not there yet. And I think you bring up a really great point. But one thing that I will say is that at least for these startups, and I would even say for, you know, platforms like, like OpenAI, which has GPT, where we are now when it comes to businesses, regardless of sector, is they're very feedback driven.

24:17Like they're very much like, tell us what we're doing wrong. Tell us what's not working so we can like implement that and fix it, you know? And we can continue to like improve on these services. So I think that, I don't think that consumers are going to be shy about telling, you know, a Petit or a Gensmo where they're messing up. And I don't think that, having spoken to those founders, that they're absolutely not averse at all to like hearing that feedback as harsh as it is and implementing it in the ways that they can. The thing about, as we all know, with technology, it's all about iteration.

24:49It's all about continuing to build. The job is never done. And I think that now that this idea of feedback from consumers is just so common, it's this idea that they're constantly going to be feeding that to improve on what it is they're trying to build. And I'm happily not the focus group for any of this. I say that often. I'm like, I don't think I'm the one that they're surveying for this. And I probably won't go back. And I agree with you that I probably don't represent most of the consumers in the market around that stuff. What do we think happens to influencers if we have LLMs out there making recommendations?

25:27Something else that happened while we were prepping for this episode is ShopMy, which basically sets up affiliate links, sponsorships, and other stuff for influencers, received a$1.5 billion valuation. And I was, you know, thinking about this episode and looking at that and wondering, you know, if I'm I have this perfect LLM to tell me exactly what to wear. Do I still need influencers to play that role for me? I think influencers are a different product. I think that's just a different product and value proposition. I was going to say, you're going to kill me. I think that both can coexist. I do.

26:00I think that both can coexist. Again, these AI shopping agents, and I'm going to have to reiterate this to myself and to everyone, they're supposed to replicate the in-store salesperson. In-store salespeople didn't die going into a store, getting a VIP shopping experience at a Bergdorf's didn't die because there are now influencers and people are looking at shopping hauls. That still exists. I think that actually the influencer in the world that they're building and the world that the follower they're trying to emulate is probably going to inform the kind of prompts that they give to. So, you know, I love, you know, Jasmine Tooks and like I spend nights watching her TikTok.

26:42If I want Jen's Mo, it probably will know that. I'm like, I want to replicate the fabuluses that Jasmine Tooks had when she was in the south of France sort of thing. Like that would just be in the prompt, you know, but like the influencer is what's daring me to dream and actually helping me hone my sense of style. The shopping agent is supposed to just regurgitate that to me with the best results when I'm trying to actually buy products. I love her helping you to dream. I think that's incredible. But if it does, if the AI does complete the purchase for you, that probably is one way that that influencer that's using like the LTK or the ShopMy doesn't get credit for the initial inspo.

27:18I think that's probably one area where it could actually affect the other. Oh, definitely. But I mean, that's just one monetization tool when it comes to these influencers. The big monetization tool for them is that they're getting paid by these brands, you know? So it's like if their value goes away in terms of actually influencing people. But again, these shopping agents, I don't think are going to be the only way that people love making transactions. And who knows, it's probably going to be at some point down the line where these companies are partnering with influencers. Actually, Viteria is partnering with influencers to show that they're using the tool.

27:54And, you know, speaking of Jasmine Took, she's actually an investor in another tool called Alta. That's an AI Power Shopping app. So they're already in bed with these businesses anyway. So there's a way to blend that ecosystem together in the future. I don't think that there's going to be a one or the other sort of like, you know, a zero sum game here. I agree with you. I was trolling a little bit with that question. It was a great question because it is something to consider like what all that goes into a consumer's mindset when they're looking to buy a great pair of jeans, when they're looking to buy a great sweater, when they're looking to be surprised and delighted by a funky silhouette when it comes to a shoe.

28:35Like all of that is something that is within this ecosystem that has to be accounted for. So I think I think it was a great question, actually. All right. To close things out here, I would like to ask you to, what would it take for you to actually start using one of these to pick out what you're going to wear or what you wanted to buy? Sheena, let's start with you. It will take a lot is the short answer. I just, I think it is a combination of, and we've all, I think we're all in this industry and we all dress well and we understand clothes. I just am not convinced by tools like this that it can tell me.

29:11I haven't seen anything that can tell me that I, you know, what to wear in a way that's convincing. I actually went to an event during fashion week where they had like a mirror that like helped you try on clothes, which is still, it's, it's related. It's not not related. And I thought this is just a little silly. It's not helping me. So it would really need to fundamentally feel helpful. And I haven't seen anything that's, that's landed there yet. But again, I might've felt like this about chat GPT two years ago. I was like, Oh, I'm a writer. I'm a, I don't need anything to help me with an email.

29:41and then I, that I, it got better. And I'm like, oh, I could just tell it to quickly write this email or to do something. Like my mom would always ask me to write something for her. And I'm like, oh, I can say, write this low stakes email for my mom. So I think it takes, I might be the person that's saying I want the more sophisticated horse and buggy. And I just can't see the vision yet. I have, you know, my aversion to it is very similar to Sheena was like, I feel like I can dress myself. One thing that I will say that that's prompted me to play with a lot of these tools outside of the fact that I'm writing about them is this ability to discover new brands that I wouldn't have heard of that would suit my taste like that to me feels like a personal unlock I mean I'm a fashion lover and I have a shopper so I should be fertile ground for these types of innovations and I do think that their ability to like show me things even if I say you know one of my favorite brands is La Mer um the fashion brand you know the Parisian fashion brand not the the skincare company but if i say you know i'm looking for like a chic tar inspire the film tar inspire you know la mer blouse show me other brands that are you know along that vein you know like or something that that i wouldn't even have thought of but that still suit my taste i think their ability to do that would be what would get me to like continue to like use the tool but again i have to make the leap to actually start using the tool more meaningfully and i'll say i'm i'm kind of open to trying it for whatever, but there are two uses right now that I actually think these are quite good for.

31:10One is for really niche fashion questions. Let's say you're invited to like a white tie event, you know, something kind of weird you've never done before. Perfect for that. And it's also great for gifts. If you kind of have an idea, someone might like an item of clothing or some jewelry, not your area of expertise is for someone else. Great way to get recommendations for that kind of thing too. And for Malik's ex's wedding that we're all having to go to right now. My final question is, who hurt you, Malik? You keep talking about this revenge stress. Oh, that's another conversation of the day and we need like an hour or two to get to that.

31:42Wow. That's a good tease for our next episode. But Malik, thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you for having me. As usual, I love, I love, you know, conversing with you all about all that we do at BOF. Please be sure to check out Malik's article, What It Will Take for Consumers to Let AI Shop for Them at businessoffashion.com. As we're learning, it seems like quite a bit. This and other stories are available to BOF professional subscribers only, and you can find the links in the episode notes. You've been listening to The Debrief, produced and edited by Olivia Davies and Eric Rhea. I'm Sheena Butler-Young.

32:16And I'm Brian Baskin. We'll be back next week with a new episode. Thanks so much for joining us and be sure to follow us wherever you get your podcasts.