Beyond the Office: CBRE CMO Benji Baer on the Future of Work, Marketing & Leadership

0:00What's the first brand you remember making an impact on you as a young girl? It's an oldie but a goodie. I mean, Apple to me. I just think it's brilliant. And every time I go into, and I've used Apple as an example for us as we think about our building operations. Like, guys, they just elevate a person that you buy your phone from and he hooks it up to this genius who looks cool, looks smart. And I have such an elevated experience. I am excited to buy my phone there. How can that be? It's a stupid phone. But they have created something that has such value and premium to it. You know, and then that comes to life in every touchpoint, in every interaction with the company.

0:40And they've held that discipline true for decades. Hi, I'm Jim Stengel. I've helped hundreds of major brands discover and activate their purpose. Because when a brand's purpose is clear, compelling, and authentic, profit naturally follows. Each week, I welcome the CMOs, the chief marketing officers of your favorite brands, to speak to how their job is so much more than marketing. These leaders share their inspiration and challenges, along with how they try to build a full, healthy, and happy life in and out of the office. And it's that energy that reaches everyone they touch. And we're glad you're here to feel that energy and to learn from these remarkable leaders.

1:20So here we go. What happens when the very definition of workplace changes almost overnight? Well, this week I'm joined by Benji Baer, the Chief Marketing Officer of CBRE, one of the world's largest commercial real estate and investment services companies. CBRE helps companies and investors buy, sell, lease, finance, and manage commercial real estate all over the world, from office towers and logistics centers to data centers, hotels, and major urban developments. Today, it operates in more than 100 countries with annual revenue in the$40 billion range. Benji has had a fascinating career journey.

1:54Before joining CBRE in 2019, she held senior marketing leadership roles at JPMorgan Chase, Legg Mason, and Alliance Bernstein, industries that are built on trust, competency, and relationships. Benji joined CBRE just months before the pandemic reshaped the way we think about offices, cities, flexibility, and human connection at work. So this episode is about much more than commercial real estate. It's about leading through uncertainty, and it's about the changing role of the modern CMO from storyteller to transformation leader. Benji also brings a leadership style I really admire. She talks often about empathy, intuition, grit, and what she calls bringing people with you during times of change.

2:34Tune in for this conversation with a leader who believes marketing should not only drive growth, but also culture, pride, and human connection inside organizations. Here's Benji. Well, Benji, welcome to the CMO Podcast. About two years ago, almost to the day, I did a quick interview with you in Cannes for Gary Vaynerchuk's show, Marketing for the Now. We had a blast, but you described yourself then as a heat-seeking missile. So I want to ask you today, two years later, what heat are you seeking these days, Benji? Oh, I love that. I forgot I even said that. I am seeking to educate our people and the market around everything that our company has now been able to develop, create, offer to our customers.

3:24And it's fortunate on one hand that the strength of the company has been so vast. And through acquisition, there are things that we do today that we couldn't have done a number of years ago. But it's unfortunate that our own people and the marketplace hasn't caught up with that. And so if there's one mission I have and this heat-seeking missile that is me with lots of people around me is to change that. And to change that quickly and change that with impact and have people really celebrate and understand. and as employees stand with pride to be able to talk about that and deliver that to our customers and to our customers to have them really feel that, nurture it, and really embrace all that we can do to help them solve their biggest challenges from a real estate and space perspective.

4:09Well, we're going to talk more about that. In my research on your company and prep for this, I was pretty surprised. So I'm going to talk a bit about that in a few minutes. But before we go there, you also talked briefly about how you started your career when we spoke two years ago. And you said you were an international economist working on microchip dumping cases in Asia. Now, we didn't talk much about that two years ago, but it sounds very James Bond-ish. So was it? Or was that a cover for something else you were doing? Yeah. No, I'm not sure if it was James Bond-ish. I think it is remarkably full circle, though, in terms of the world we live in today.

4:47So the kind of work that I came out of, I mean, I always loved in school, studying economics, studying the international global landscape, understanding the macro factors that were driving the economy in our world and the things that related to our individuals. And so I was fortunate to get this really interesting role, as you just described, in D.C. And the things that I was working on, the topics, trade, tariffs, microchips, you tell me, and I didn't graduate school a few years ago, are still, are today front and center in the world. So, you know, how policy, how economies, how governments think about trade and think about their strains is still really important.

5:32And so it does relate back in many ways. It was not James Bond. No. Trust me. No, it sounded sexier maybe than it actually was. No, you're at a desk in front of a computer most of the time. That and at the Department of Commerce making copies of things with analysts. Honestly, if I can tell you, not sexy. You were not skiing in Gestade with a bow and arrow. No, no. All right. But you can paint that picture. Sounds good. Yeah, I like it. We talked a minute ago about your company and your heat-seeking missile mission. You recently released your quarterly earnings. So I read that and I went deeper into your company.

6:10You had a great quarter, revenue up 16%. So congrats to you and the team. That's always a heavy lift. But as I was reading that report, I was really surprised at how diversified your company is in every possible way. So I want you to go there right up front. I mean, this is what you're trying to explain, right, to your people, to your customers. So how are you doing that now? When you meet someone like myself or Judy, our producer, how do you explain who you are and what you do in a simple way that is accurate and also inspiring? I think what you just indicated, we are a very complex, rich organization, and we are setting out to actually define and describe the company in the way you just described, because I don't think it exists today.

7:00So what's happening is we've, I mean, we're certainly highly successful, as you indicated. So we are with customers day in and day out talking about what they need and what they want and helping them in many respects. But bringing that all together is really the work that we're going to be doing over the next few months. And then putting that in market in the coming year will be the mission. And it's, you know, our client base are very diverse as well. They are large Fortune 500 companies who are looking for support and help with their real estate needs. They're investors, the largest investment management firms looking to buy and sell.

7:38Very different audiences, very different drivers, very different behavior. So coming together, I think, with one message and a way to describe that is actually the work that we're undertaking as we speak. So you also did some work, I think, two and a half, three years ago on market positioning, brand positioning. How's the learning from that? Because I know these things evolve as your company evolves. Yeah. What learning did you get in that process? Because tackling something like that's always a complex thing, right? You're working on the company story. It's something that is going to apply to everyone in the company and all of your clients and other stakeholders.

8:14What did you learn two and a half years ago or three years ago that is helpful today? Yeah, no, Jim, I'm glad you brought that up. That was actually we launched a little over four years ago. And it was this idea of realizing potential in every dimension. And it was this idea that we do sit, as you said, we're a highly diversified business, but it's all pointed to helping our customers realize their potential, whether it's they're running a business or they're investing in real estate. And what we learned through that process, which was it was a very successful launch and it was campaign led and website and content had all the aspects of what a great marketing program should have.

8:54The piece that was missing and what we're going to do very different this time, and that, by the way, we launched that during COVID, is our primary audience, first and foremost, are going to be our sales facing professionals. So our teams that are direct to customers are the first audience for that message that they can deliver it out. And I think that was a bit of a miss and a challenge. Every company, where they are in their maturity and where they are in their readiness to accept that is different. But right now we have our most senior, senior leaders really interested in doing this work with us by our side and making it real first and foremost with our own employees, which I'm most excited about.

9:35That always would have been my hope and dream. So we're going to do it now, and I think it's going to really make the difference that we need it to make. Everyone in their career, if they're a CMO, deals with what you're dealing with now, right? Retelling a story, renewing a story, deciding who your prime prospects are for that. Anything that you're learning, I know you're not finished yet. You're in the middle of it. Anything that you're learning that would be helpful for others who are also embarking on that kind of journey? You know, one of the things that strikes me, and this is going to sound a little, excuse the expression, cocksure, I think marketers tend to be ahead of the business in many of these regards.

10:14and we see the trend, we see where the company's going because we sit in a very, as a CMO, a very, very unique perch. And I say that all the time. Who else at the company sees every customer engagement, every business line? I mean, outside of our CEO, right? From the standpoint of how we're client, you're engaging with our customers. What are the drivers? What's working? What's not working? Well, we do. And so I think my challenge and our challenge and probably other CMOs is how do you make sure that you catch people and you catch the business at the right moment when they're at the same sort of headspace you are, where they're ready to engage in the same way, in the right way.

10:56And I see it. It's so fascinating to watch how I'll say something and then, oh yeah, you know, it'll quickly catch on or they'll say something. And I'm like, oh my God, I've been thinking that for the last six months. Thank God we're connecting. And a lot of that is around go-to-market motion and who the customer segments are that we're focusing on and what that will demand of us as a company. The big shift that I see happening is we're going really marketing, I call it to the top. And it seems sort of intuitive, but as an organization, we weren't always marketing to the largest companies or the largest investment managers.

11:31And the reason we're doing it today, some of it is driven by us and the kind of things we can do for them, but some of it is just driven by market conditions and where real estate decisions are being made. And that is a much more complex buying process. It's not one-to-one, right? It's not a small, call it law firm in Kansas City that's looking for a space. It's a multi-market, huge organization. And there are probably 10 people that we need to engage with and influence. And so as a marketing organization, we need to adapt to that and be prepared. I mean, I love what you said. I mean, I think how you see your role, I mean, I'm reading it between the lines of what you just said.

12:13You see your role as strategy and growth and choices. It's not Marcom. You know, it's not brand positioning. It's all those things, but it's much larger than that. When I became CMO at P &G, my CEO said to me, there are very few people in this company, I can probably count them on one hand, who are thinking about beyond the next quarter or year, and you have to be one of them. Yeah. And it's a very empowering thought. It is. It's empowering. Again, the challenge is getting, making sure our leaders kind of see and value that. And I don't want to discount. Now, I would say there are many that get it, and there are some that don't.

12:55And so even having to kind of shift how you calibrate your engagement. And of course, I have a huge, huge team. I'm not doing this alone by any means. But this is a big conversation we have. We just had an offsite on Tuesday of last week with the senior marketing leaders. And we're continuing to like, who's our friend or who's the person that gets what we're trying to do and will be a really engaged partner. And it's a beautiful thing. And then you have some where it's a little more challenging or some leaders think it belongs in their business, not in marketing. I'd be planning a meeting for me.

13:33That's hard after all of my many years doing this to hear that. But there's more education to be had.

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15:07So I think people are getting clearer on their strategy in this space. But I'd like you to reflect on what's exciting happening in that area. And what would you like our audience to know about? Because you're seeing it through a lens none of us are seeing it. I'm glad you're asking that question. And it's an area that I have passion around. My CEO for what we call our building operations and experience business, Jamie Hadari, has a lot of passion around, which is people, right? and people wanting to be with other people and wanting to make connections and the power of that, both personally and professionally.

15:43And how do you make that, the office being such an important part of our lives and we're obviously office is only one aspect of our business, but an important one. And how do you create experiences, the soft experiences, so to speak, that make the workplace vibrant, engaging in a place where you want to be, you're not obligated to go to, but you want to be there because there's seen to be such value in that experience. So what's exciting is we've taken the leader of our, one of the leaders from our industrious business, which is a flex co-working business that we purchased a couple of years ago.

16:19And her name is Anna Levine and put her in charge is something called experience services. And that is all, I mean, it's more than F &B, but that's an important part of it. It's really systematizing and creating unique experiences, often in home offices and headquarters and in other spaces so that people are surprised, delighted, feel cared for, feel supported, and really creating vibrancy that we can add. Obviously, you still need business leaders to take a piece of us, but what can we do from a real estate places and spaces perspective to make that distinct and unique? And we are at the cutting edge of that right now.

16:56We're starting to implement those in bigger ways as we speak. And I think you'll start to hear more and more about it in the coming year. When return to work has been most successful, I mean, in organizations, and I don't know if you can mention any or not, what happens? What's going on? I mean, you're kind of already going there. The leadership of the company has to believe in it. But those that have managed this change post-COVID really, really well, what are they doing? I think there's an intentionality to it. And when I say investment, it doesn't have to be dollars. It can be time and structure and, you know, some degree of clarity, I think, helps people too.

17:35But people are creating this. I didn't talk about the physicality. I mean, the things that you see, I mean, J.P. Morgan's building is a uber prime example, and that's only a couple of blocks from us. I mean, that is the penultimate experience that says we, yes, we want to stand for something, but we care about our people. We're creating almost a community and a building. is how I'd like to think of it. It's a good metaphor. Yeah, that people want to be there. I mean, I'm trying to get my way in there just to see it all and be part of it. So JP Morgan's a great example. I mean, Amex, I mean, you see a lot of the big financial services companies doing it.

18:11You certainly see the tech companies focused on it for sure. And I think it has to be top down. And I think I also have a very strong belief that this is probably one of the most prime examples of a multidimensional partnership in a company. So what do I mean by that? It's not your real estate leader who can drive this alone by any means. You need senior leaders. You need your head of people, your CHRO, your head of technology. I believe your CMO because it is about the employer brand. It is about the brand and your head of real estate. When they come together and really think about this from every dimension, every angle, it can be incredibly, incredibly powerful.

18:53Yeah, I think it puts a great, I mean, you know, COVID was horrible. But I do think that a lot of the leaders that I've talked to just sort of elevated their expectations on the kind of community experience they want to create. And so much good is coming out of that. And you do. I mean, you read the headlines and we look at this and take it quite seriously. You know, the loneliness epidemic, people feeling disconnected. On the other hand, you see more and more. I mean, I was just at a concert on Friday night and people, Jamie loves to talk about this. people love to stand on line for like a hot, you know, a bagel, like the coolest bagel in town.

19:30People are looking for ways to be with other people. We all know Marianne Benarkin and the longest table, which is something we've talked about. I mean, I love what she's doing because, well, that's, that is synonymous in terms of how we see the world. Okay. And then, you know, it is not about stealing glass. I think of what we do is we provide shelter to businesses, right? But we also hopefully create an environment that enables people to do their best work and employee experience we also know leads to customer experience. So this is not about let me give free snacks because I'm a benevolent person either.

20:09It ultimately will lead, and that has been measured, to a better business outcome for the company, whether that's talent, retention oriented or otherwise. You've been CMO seven years. How's the job changed the most in those seven years from when you walked through the door? A couple of things. I think I finally, and this is no negative to my other leaders, they'd probably agree with this. I think I finally have that leader who's invested in doing this work and Jamie Hadari for certain. He gets it. He wants to be involved in it and contribute to it. So having that as a partner to me has entirely changed the game.

20:46I think the other difference since I joined seven years ago is I now have a remarkable team that I didn't have when I walked in the door. So shaping that has been wonderful and seeing those individuals thrive and really build greater credibility and value with our business partners. And marketplace differentiation has been wonderful. But as I said, I don't want to underplay how different the company itself is. The fact that we are now doing, we're hiring and training thousands of people across the country to learn how to build and lay fiber optics in data centers. So we are workforce creators right now at the company.

21:31That is not even, would not have entered my mind when I walked in the door day one. We have energy capability. So like everything that's sort of adjacent, whether it's asset type or capability, defense contracting, we're working in health care institutions. We help companies manufacture things, whether that's medicines or equipment. So the diversity, as you mentioned in the very beginning, keeps growing. And that makes our job, I mean, more exciting, albeit more complex. And how do you keep that North Star and a vision for the company? quite. So that's a big one. And then AI, I didn't even bring up, but like this to say, it almost goes unspoken.

22:14That's another changing the playing field pretty dramatically. Yeah. How you talked about building your team out and you're very proud of that. We're going to talk a little bit more about that later. You know, there were certain capabilities that your company had when you joined in the marketing and brand space. They're probably very different now, right? Seven years later. So could you speak about that process of, because I think it's one of the most important things we do, but it's hard. What are the capabilities we need to win and succeed in the future? Be explicit and shift your organization to build those and bring in people who can help you do that.

22:53Sometimes it's a radical shift and sometimes it's an evolution. But could you talk a bit about that? What are you building today that will give you a competitive advantage in your space? So Jim, it is probably the hardest part of my job. It is by far the hardest part of my job. When I walked in the door, it was very obvious to me because there were just some fundamentals missing. And I think we solved that with brand creative content. We have a brilliant woman who runs our content and customer growth, building podcasts like yours that have been off the charts. And then I brought in leaders who were assigned kind of each of our four segments now who would go deep into the business.

23:39I think a couple of things that are now in front of us now, digital and AI. And what that means from a customer channel standpoint is those are, you know, it's changing by the moment, right? So you're like scared to put a bet on anyone or anything, but you kind of have to, and you probably need someone who's very adaptable, nimble, and exceedingly curious. So working through that right now, and we're excited about where we're headed and where we're going, and we're nicely supported by our digital and technology organization on that front, that's super important. I think the other thing you said before to me around understanding the customer and customer lens and being really a customer strategist.

24:22We can tend to be a very product-led company. And I'm very much trying to shift that because I'm not sure that's always in our fully best interest. We have lots of different customer types. So how do we get smart about each of the customer segments, how they buy, and then have the mechanisms in place, really account-based sort of approaches in place to be really strategic so that we optimize all of the channels and those interactions. And by the way, we need to measure and show that value into the business. So that little grouping that I described is probably the richest area that we need to pivot to and grow toward.

25:00And so that is digital infrastructure, that is data connectivity, talent to do that, that's account-based marketing. And those are really, I'm going to call them client strategists who understand the business first and foremost, and that can translate that into a marketing strategy. We had Lisa Matarazzo, the global head of marketing for Ford on the show, and she talked about exactly what you just talked about. How do we shift a very product centric industry to be more consumer centric and start there and work backwards and design experiences, transportation experiences for those people who are most important for our future?

25:38You can't go wrong with that philosophy. You just can't. Now I got, I hadn't called you for support on this, but honestly, I'll take your stamp of approval any day. It's not intuitive to the organization. That's the challenge. I feel like I'm talking to myself sometimes. Yeah. But we're getting there for sure. I think we're getting the right receptivity because they're coming to a very similar conclusion at the same time or a little after us. And, you know, imagine your organization picking up on this. If you say you want to be customer or consumer-centric, fine. But what are you doing? How is it showing up in people's work and what we value?