Building Brand Love with UGG, Tinder, Tubi and Transunion

0:00Hi, it's Jim. Joining me is Matt Spiegel, EVP of True Audience Growth Strategy at TransUnion. Matt, we talk a lot on this show about building brands that people love, but that starts with understanding them, right? Jim, absolutely. Every customer ultimately has a story, but most brands are only going to see part of it. At TransUnion, we really focus on helping marketers connect those dots across devices, across channels, across platforms, with the goal of helping marketers see a full person behind the data. That clarity is gold. That is special. So how do you do it? Ultimately, we put together the pieces of information that help you predict behavior, help you personalize messages, prove the impact of every marketing decision at the end of the day.

0:37And our marketing solution suite gives brands the visibility and confidence to invest smarter and ultimately grow faster. So if you want to turn data into understanding and understanding into growth, visit transunion.com slash clarity. Hey, it's Jim. I'm here with Matt Spiegel, EVP of True Audience Growth Strategy at TransUnion. That's quite a job title, Matt. Yes. Welcome. Thank you. So tell me about your company and why it matters for our audience CMOs. Well, listen, Jim, the challenge of the day is that there's so much information about consumers out there and the challenge is most companies don't have all that information.

1:08You have some purchase history, you maybe have some web history, but you don't have a full picture of customers. We're working really hard across on a suite of identity products, of audience products and measurement products to bring a holistic view of customers to marketers. So when CMOs work with you, what light bulbs go off for them? So, Jim, we help brands bring clarity from chaos. We help them understand a picture of their customers with a 360-degree view in order for marketers to make bigger, more strategic bets. Well said, Matt. Learn more at transunion.com slash clarity. That's transunion.com slash clarity.

1:42What if the smartest marketing play is not to move forward, but to zoom out? Deloitte believes the most powerful move a CMO can make is to look beyond the next step and see the broader perspective. That's what the Deloitte CMO program is for, a place to gain fresh perspective and connect with leaders who've stood where you stand. Together, Deloitte will help you see the bigger picture so your next move isn't just fast, but right. Learn more about the CMO program at cmo.deloitte.com. I'd like to think I was always the passionate, empathetic leader that I feel like I am today, but I don't think there's any question.

2:17It becomes much more evident on the importance in a world that is a little bit traumatic and full of turmoil. It feels like a really important theme right now is that we've all got different stories. We've all got things going on under the hood that most people don't know about. It's a lot of communities that at the end of the day need other communities to support them. And I think that's certainly something I've been thinking a lot about and trying to emphasize. And that can be very small things to obviously very big things today. Hi, I'm Jim Stengel. I've helped hundreds of major brands discover and activate their purpose.

2:48Because when a brand's purpose is clear, compelling, and authentic, profit naturally follows. Each week, I welcome the CMOs, the chief marketing officers of your favorite brands, to speak to how their job is so much more than marketing. These leaders share their inspiration and challenges, along with how they try to build a full, healthy, and happy life in and out of the office. And it's that energy that reaches everyone they touch. And we're glad you're here to feel that energy and to learn from these remarkable leaders. So here we go. This week, we are returning to the Cannes Lions Festival and to a special one-of-a-kind location.

3:24We capture this conversation live at the Brand Innovators LVMH Villa, presented by Shutterstock. And it is a very special episode. Four remarkable marketing leaders join us for an open, insightful discussion on building brand love, staying rooted in purpose, and leading with kindness. First up, we have Matt Spiegel, EVP of True Audience Growth Strategy at TransUnion, a global information and insights company. Matt's a longtime digital marketing and ad tech innovator. He's focused on helping brands create more relevant, privacy-conscious connections with their audiences in a rapidly evolving data landscape.

4:00Next is Nicole Parlapiano, the Chief Marketing Officer of Tubi. Nicole is leading the charge at one of the most disruptive platforms in streaming, bringing bold, culturally relevant content to millions of viewers and redefining what it means to build a beloved entertainment brand. Then we have Melissa Hobley, Chief Marketing Officer of Tinder. Melissa is shaping the global narrative for one of the most iconic apps in the world, and she's passionate about making Tinder a place where real human connection and even love can thrive. And finally, Carol Diara, Chief Marketing Officer of the Ugg brand.

4:34Carol is helping evolve a heritage lifestyle brand into something even more meaningful by deepening emotional bonds with consumers and championing purpose, comfort, and creativity. This group brings sharp insight, honesty, and loads of heart. Whether you're a marketer, an agency leader, or just someone simply fascinated by the art and science of building a brand, this conversation has something for you. Let's dive in. Hey, everyone. Welcome to this special edition of the CMO Podcast, recorded for the first time at the LVMH Villa. So how do you describe kind of the setting we're in right now? This is great.

5:09Listen, this is a beautiful place to be, to say the least. There is a nice view outside. And it's great. We're talking a lot about serendipity already. It's a wonderful place to have amazing interactions. And we're about 20 feet from a pool with an amazing view, right? Yeah, that view looks better than the closet. Did you bring your bathing suits? I mean, I can probably swim in this. Yeah, okay, good. It's Cannes, right? Yeah. It dries quickly. So this feels a little bit like a reunion. Nicole, you're a former guest. Carol, you were in my class two years ago here in Cannes. Yes, with CMO Accelerator, which was amazing.

5:39We just met. Just met. But we're already kind of bonding. And you've been on the show as well. I've been on the show. So it's really good. So our theme today is brand love and innovation. So it's a perfect theme for this gang. And my first question to you is sort of, are you feeling the brand love in Cannes this year or not? Are we talking about the right stuff this year? We're at midweek and you've been hanging around, having dinners, maybe going to the Palais, in workshops. So is there enough talk about brand love? Nicole, why don't we start with you? You know, this is biased to where I've been.

6:13I haven't been in the Palais that much, which I think is probably where a lot of those conversations are happening. But I would say no. I think the common themes we're hearing, we're hearing sports, we're hearing AI. Of course, there's like more honest conversations where marketers are talking about how they justify brand investment with CFOs. That's not necessarily talking about building brand love. So I think it's light on that this year. And I think it's something that I've been kind of reconciling with. Yep. Anyone else? Carol? I had an interesting take because I think there's this expanded view of brand love in Cannes.

6:47And what I'm hearing a lot of people talk about is people and creators as brands and what that means. And so if you're an athlete or if, you know, creating content of any sort, people are talking about their pillars and what's important to them. And they say, you know, I have three pillars. It's around these five things. I'm like, that's like a brand. And I feel like so many people are adopting the idea of brand love, even if they're not talking about it. Because they're talking about aligning their values, the things that they're passionate about. And when you talk about their name, they're saying, I want to be known for these things.

7:23And that's what a brand is, right? You hear the brand and you're like, I want to be known for these things. So I think there's an expanded view of brands, even though we might not necessarily be talking about it in the traditional sense that we've all grown up around. It's an incredible reimagining of what it means to be a brand. We had YouTube on the show yesterday with a creator, and they said, this is a tipping point. Creator economy is here in force. And you see that in Cannes. You feel that in Cannes. Your Ms. Brand love. I agree with what Nicole and Carol were saying. I think I'll give a different hot take, which I think one of the things that's nice is you get time with other marketing leaders and your advertising partners and you get a chance to say, oh my God, I love what you're doing with Tubi.

8:08What's the next collection you're running out from UGG and like the work that Transmute is doing? And so it's nice because you're in a safe space where people can be like, this was interesting or how did you work with that creator? We've been trying to get to them. So that part of the brand love is really interesting. And I love the brainstorming around collabs or partnerships or wait, there's something there. Or how did you do that? Do you think I should try it? So that's been one of, I think, the bright spots of CAN. So Matt, what happened with you? You know, it's interesting. We're obviously more in the B2B space.

8:37So we experience the CAN a little differently, both in terms of the content we focus on, but also the experience we have with a lot of our partners. And so we find ourselves much more in the data and technology side of this conversation. But there's a huge, or maybe huge is the wrong word, but an ever better link to, I think, the creative storytelling part of it. You can't go five minutes without hearing about Gen.AI at the end of the day. and the potential impact on new creative storytelling. So there's a link there, again, and I think a lot of what we spend time doing is what enables great storytelling, which enables great brand building.

9:08So there's that link, but I suppose, like you said, Nicole, I don't spend time in the traditional sense getting to talk about brand love in the way that we might historically have thought about it. Let's talk about brand love and your brand or your company. And this is a nice way to introduce you as well. Talk about the brand or company you're responsible for. One thing your fans love about you, And one thing you would love them to love about you, and you're not quite there yet. Alyssa, do you want to start? I have to go first. That's love. It's love. Tinder should go first. So I run marketing globally for Tinder, the largest dating app in the world.

9:42One of the things that the brands that our brand does that I think people know is it's hard to make connection. And we're so connected and so disconnected, right? Meaning like we're so digital and we're losing this. Right. And and people aren't going out enough and they're not having conversations and they're not they're not putting themselves out there enough. I think what they appreciate and know about Tinder is is you can be in your pajamas on your couch and find someone who is also crazy about this obscure jazz band. Like you can do that. You don't have to go to happy hours every night to meet someone.

10:25So that's what people love about your brand. They love that about our brand. What I wish they knew about our brand is you have to put a little more work into it for it to work. And I'll help you find your person. And I'll help you explore your queerness. I'll help you meet somebody studying abroad. I'll help you do those things. But I need you to put a little more work into it. You need to put more love into that. A little more love into it. That's right. Carol, how about yourself? What do they love, your fans love today, and what would you like them to love more? I feel really, really lucky because I work for the UGG brand.

10:58It's a$2.5 billion footwear slash apparel global lifestyle brand. And we're really in the midst of transforming the brand from this iconic boot, which people just literally love, to an iconic global brand in which there are these tenets about the brand beyond the product that people really love as well. And so as a part of that, what do people love? They love the feel of the products. And when they step into it, they talk about like it's like a cloud that you're walking into of, you know, nostalgia. So people have so many memories of the brand in which it was gifted to them from their grandmother or their mom.

11:40Or they remember their first pair when they were in high school and everybody coveted them. And now you have new generations which are discovering the brand through a totally different way. And so it's not necessarily the classic boot. It might be any of the other number of products that we've introduced from our new sandals to sneakers to the Tasman slippers that everyone is wearing, especially young kids at all the games. And so now what we're really focused on is UGG as a community and how we're really shifting the narrative to working with creatives and allowing them to use our product as a kind of a blank canvas for creativity.

12:19So we partner with so many designers and creatives who are reimagining the brand. And we really allow fans to also put their self-expression into the brand. And so for us, it's about self-expression and community. and I want more people to know that that's what the Ugg brand is really about. Do you have any debates in your company about losing control of the brand as you open it up for everyone to use it as a platform and a canvas? We don't have fear of it. I think there's always this perception of, okay, we have to remain connected to our brand DNA. And as long as it feels authentic, as long as it feels like, okay, this is coming from a place that's a genuine place for the brand and the people that we work with, we're working with them in a genuine way, then that's when it's okay.

13:06It's not a transaction, it's a relationship. It's a relationship. And I feel like that's how people talk about the brand. You know, they talk about it as if it's a loved one in their family. And it's incredible to have that type of a connection and a love for our products. So we recently did something with our founder, who is, his name is Brian Smith. He's this Australian surfer who came to California in the late 70s. and he says, you know, it's just incredible the way we've like taken the brand and grown the brand. But he says, what I love about it is that, you know, it kind of started with this counterculture, surf culture, and it's grown up.

13:42And so always staying connected with communities that love the brand, that have a functional use for it, but also like it's a part of their lifestyle and who they are. As long as that feels like genuine, then he like really feels like we're on the right track. So Matt, you're B2B. Yeah. You talked about relationships. Yeah. So, I mean, you're still selling to people? For sure. So at TransUnion, we actually deal with the fact that we're known for something different than what we're really in this space for, right? TransUnion is known as the credit bureau, as your credit score. That's not the part of the business I work on.

14:13I actually work on the marketing solutions products, right? And so actually our core friends are this room and this audience, right? And whether you're a media company or a marketer in between, those are our fans. And we try to provide, and we do provide a lot of the enabling technology and data to enable great brand building. That's at the end of the day, what we do, how do we help create more personalized marketing? And so what we're finding is we're loved because people know what we do is really foundational. It's a key piece of the future of great marketing. So that's really the good part.

14:41And I think we're really known for that. And it becomes a part of the love for sure. I think the hard part is in what we would, what we need to make better is it's still really hard to do right now. You think about all the different technologies, all the different data sets, all the different communication channels, it's gotten more complex, not less. And so the challenge we face is how do we make that ever easier? How can we make it clear that it's not always us that is making this complicated. It's the ecosystem, right? Of course, we can always build better technology. We can always make things easier in some ways, but the more that we can tell a story to make clear that great personalized, relevant marketing will, and will be, is a trans unions to keep part of that, the better we're doing.

15:21Nicole, wrap it up. And I love the show we did together. And we talked an awful lot about your fans and insights and how your brand has been exploding based on that. So I would say, you know, Tubi's mission is to give all people access to all the world's stories. And so it's storytelling. And I think that we're kind of considered, it's not my words, the people streamer. So to be that accessible Hollywood streamer that is giving, you know, stories that all people can feel seen in, which means diverse stories. What I wish people knew, because on the B2B side, when I talk to advertisers, there's just still so many misconceptions about streaming and addressable audience there.

16:03I don't know if everyone saw Nielsen Gage yesterday for the first time in a consecutive 30 days in May, streaming overtook all linear. We know that's where it's going. but advertisers still buy on the shows that they watch and the original programming with some of our competitors. And the reality is people are really viewing in a personalized way. They're viewing nostalgia content, subculture content, comfort horror, and they're highly engaged. They're intentional. And just because they're on a free streaming product doesn't mean they don't have incredible influence and purchasing power. So I think that is what I wish people knew is the power of our viewers and that they engage us in interesting ways to connect to them because that is the future.

16:46But I think just really proud on the consumer side of it. The brand is really strong and it's just kind of the place you can find the freaky and geeky stuff you can't find anywhere else or the stuff that you loved when you were younger or the show that you want to introduce your kid to that you're going to watch, co-watch for the first time. So it's just a different take in the entertainment landscape.

17:14Everyone seems to be chasing the next big thing, the fastest answer, the quickest win. But great CMOs believe the real power isn't in the speed, it's in stepping back to see the bigger picture. That's why everything Deloitte does in their CMO program, from their industry-leading capabilities to their connected network of CMOs, is designed to help you zoom out and gain fresh perspective. Deloitte will help you see the bigger picture together. Learn more about the CMO program at cmo.deloitte.com.

17:48So we talked a few minutes on the show about whether or not there's enough brand love in Canon and talk about that. You know, there's obviously a lot on Gen AI, lots of workshops, and we talked about that in the car, Nicole. I just want to, I'm hearing a lot of stuff in my one-on-ones, the panels I'm doing, the meetings I'm having, a lot of talk about kindness and care and humanity. And I can't tell you how many times I've heard people say, can we drop the freaking word consumer and just talk about people and how we're a part of their life versus trying to sell them something? Maybe that's a reaction to a lot of stuff that's going on, but I kind of want to get your take on that as a leader.

18:24You're all senior in your organizations. Do you feel like you've amped up the love, the kindness, the care, the humanity with your teams, and then with obviously your customers, your consumers, I'm using the word again, the people who are part of your brand and who buy your brand and are part of your community. So what do you think? Think about what you're doing as a leader. I think it has to be, we all have to have so much more of an empathetic lens for the people, for our employees. I mean, I'm LA based. It was a crazy couple of weeks. And I said to my team, you know, I flagged it to corporate and I said, there's people in LA that might be afraid to come to work that have family members that are impacted, that have community members that are impacted.

19:07What services are we providing? How do we make people feel safe and supported? Is there some way the companies could support them and their community if there's anything going on? Even from a mental health standpoint, it's just a lot, right? We've had fires. We've had, it's just been an interesting time for us all. And so I think we all have to operate with that lens of like, what can people deal with and be sensitive to the fact on how we're messaging things. You don't want to ignore what's going on. You don't want to capitalize it. You don't want to double down on it, but you have to listen.

19:36And I think you have to be very empathetic on all fronts. Has your behavior changed based on that as a leader? Yeah. I think you just have to know what people need and be, even on the advertising side, our advertisers are going through a lot right now. You know, we just went through up fronts and new fronts, you can't be up there and not acknowledge that there's an extreme amount of turmoil and people don't know where to put budgets and they're thinking about next year. And they're thinking about how all of these things impact their business. So from the way we sell to the way that we are thinking about our viewer base, to the way that we're thinking about our employees, the way you're thinking about the Hollywood community and the types of stories they tell and the risks they're going to take, all these things are things that are decisions we're going to make and, you know, where you want to end up.

20:22So I think it is a very pivotal time. And I love that you heard more conversations on kindness and honestly how people are navigating in this landscape, because I think we're all learning as we go. I love the question. Honestly, I think in the world that I work in of dating, you have to be so mindful of it's one of the hardest things you'll ever do, whether you're 18 or you're 88. I met a woman who's 89 on Tinder. She's like, I'm your oldest Caesar. I'm like, I've actually met older. And so I think we have that lens, but I also think a lot of us have been having conversations. Like how do you keep, how do you keep the killers on your team?

20:59How do you keep those, those folks that are performing? How do you keep that person who does social and they're just so good and they're so funny or they'll get to the influencer creator early and first. Those individuals are often very close to the zeitgeist. They're very close to how people are feeling. They're very close to like what's happening in the room, what's happening with the conversations around LGBTQ rights around the world, what's happening around a lot of the stuff happening in the US right now. And to show up with more empathy with your team, to show up with that in your TikToks and your socials and whatever you're doing is so critical right now.

21:31And the missteps are really big. And so having that extra lens is super important right now. I'd like to think I was always the passionate, empathetic leader that I feel like I am today, but I don't think there's any question. It becomes much more evident on the importance in a world that is a little bit traumatic and full of turmoil. The word of allyship comes up a lot. Yeah. It feels like a really important theme right now is that we've all got different stories. We've all got things going on under the hood that most people don't know about. And, uh, it's a lot of communities that at the end of the day need other communities to support them.

22:10Uh, and I think that's certainly something I've been thinking a lot about and trying to emphasize, and that can be very small things to obviously very big things today. Uh, I do feel like the business world is better at that, but clearly there's a little bit of a pendulum that swings back and forth. So I don't think we're done with that game by any stretch of imagination. I think people want to trust us more because they are not, They're finding things difficult to trust. And I think a good relationship with a business or a brand or a company has always been important, but I think it's really extra important now.

22:42Carol, what do you think? Yeah, I was going to go exactly where you went. I mean, I think on the leadership front, I've tried to be much more available in person to my team. So we've gotten together as a leadership team kind of twice, right in a row. One to talk about how we're leading, the second to make sure we're really clear about our business and objectives. And then in my all hands meetings, we've literally shown the change curve and where we are on and why now it feels so overwhelming because we're constantly in the disruptive phase where it feels difficult every day because there's so much change.

23:19There's so much new information. So making just a sense of community that everybody probably feels that everyone's a little destabilized. As leaders, we're destabilized. As individuals experiencing this, we're all on this change curve in which there's so much change every day. People can't kind of come out of it and feel better. They can't be like, okay, like it's predictable. Like I know what I'm getting. So they're constantly in this state of, and that's hard to be a productive employee when you're constantly in this state of like, well, I don't know what's going on with my family. I don't know what's going on with my own status.