Building Brands with Courage: Voices from Hinge, Essity, and Be LOVE

0:00Hey, it's Jim. I'm here with Matt Spiegel, EVP of True Audience Growth Strategy at TransUnion. That's quite a job title, Matt. Yes. Welcome. Thank you. So tell me about your company and why it matters for our audience CMOs. Well, listen, Jim, the challenge of the day is that there's so much information about consumers out there and the challenge is most companies don't have all that information. You have some purchase history, you maybe have some web history, but you don't have a full picture of customers. We're working really hard across on a suite of identity products, of audience products and measurement products to bring a holistic view of customers to marketers.

0:30So when CMOs work with you, what light bulbs go off for them? So Jim, we help brands bring clarity from chaos. We help them understand a picture of their customers with a 360 degree view in order to for marketers to make bigger, more strategic bets. Well said, Matt. Learn more at transunion.com slash clarity. That's transunion.com slash clarity. Hi, it's Jim. Joining me is Matt Spiegel, EVP of True Audience Growth Strategy at TransUnion. Matt, we talk a lot on this show about building brands that people love, But that starts with understanding them, right? Jim, absolutely. Every customer ultimately has a story, but most brands are only going to see part of it.

1:07At TransUnion, we really focus on helping marketers connect those dots across devices, across channels, across platforms with the goal of helping marketers see a full person behind the data. That clarity is gold. That is special. So how do you do it? Ultimately, we put together the pieces of information that help you predict behavior, help you personalize messages, prove the impact of every marketing decision at the end of the day. And our marketing solution suite gives brands the visibility and confidence to invest smarter and ultimately grow faster. So if you want to turn data into understanding and understanding into growth, visit transunion.com slash clarity.

1:42What if the smartest marketing play is not to move forward, but to zoom out? Deloitte believes the most powerful move a CMO can make is to look beyond the next step and see the broader perspective. That's what the Deloitte CMO program is for, a place to gain fresh perspective and connect with leaders who've stood where you stand. Together, Deloitte will help you see the bigger picture so your next move isn't just fast, but right. Learn more about the CMO program at cmo.deloitte.com. Hi, everyone. It's Jim Stengel here. And before we dive into today's episode, we would very much appreciate a moment from you to make sure you're subscribed to the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen.

2:22along with optioning to auto-download the episodes. It really is the best way to never miss an episode, along with supporting the show and the amazing team that helps me bring it to you. And while you're there, leave us a rating or review. It only takes a minute and helps more people find the show and helps us learn. And of course, share this episode with a friend or colleague who might enjoy it. We wouldn't be here six years later and still going so strong without you all, our community. So thank you for being part of it and stay tuned for some exciting updates we have coming later this year.

2:56Now, on to the show. Hi, I'm Jim Stengel. I've helped hundreds of major brands discover and activate their purpose. Because when a brand's purpose is clear, compelling, and authentic, profit naturally follows. Each week, I welcome the CMOs, the chief marketing officers of your favorite brands, to speak to how their job is so much more than marketing. These leaders share their inspiration and challenges, along with how they try to build a full, healthy, and happy life in and out of the office. And it's that energy that reaches everyone they touch. And we're glad you're here to feel that energy and to learn from these remarkable leaders.

3:34So here we go. This week, we're wrapping up this summer with a final episode captured in the south of France at the Cannes Lions Festival of Creativity. Recorded at Shea Boehner, I'm joined by three distinctly different but all true powerhouse leaders to discuss how trust, courage, and community are driving the next wave of brand growth. You are likely not familiar with these leaders and the brands they run, so here's some background. First, we have Jackie, President and Chief Marketing Officer of Hinge, the dating app designed to be deleted. Hinge is all about intentional connections by encouraging users to get off the app and into real-life dates.

4:08Before joining Hinge, Jackie spent time at Coca-Cola and Spotify, and she shares in this conversation her insights on elevating Gen Z voices. Next up is Leslie Schofield, the co-founder and chief marketing officer of OfLove, a values-driven electrolyte beverage brand launched in 2024. Drawing on her personal journey of growth and resilience, Leslie has built the company around joy, connection, and community, aiming to spark real-life experiences that bring people together. And finally, a two-time alumnus of my class at the Cannes Festival, Gail Detaloe is the Chief Marketing and Digital Officer at Essity, the Swedish hygiene and health company.

4:46Essity is known for its innovative and often bold advertising in categories like feminine care. Gail explains how deep consumer empathy, long-term agency relationships, and total trust in creative teams have led to industry-shaping work, including being the first brand to show red blood on television. So listen up as we sit down to explore why the return of creative simplicity is key to long-term success. Here's Jackie, Leslie, and Gail. Well, welcome to the CMO Podcast here in Cannes Week. So I want to start by each of you introducing yourself, name, role, and one thing at Cannes Lions this week that sort of blew you away.

5:25A person you met, a dinner you had, a presentation you went to, a glass of wine you had, whatever it might be. So let's start. I'm Leslie Schofield and CMO of Love and Electrolight Beverage. We just launched in March, building fast and here in Cannes and spreading love all over the festival this week, which has been really fun. You know, it's been really just, it's so awesome to gather such great people. I think good people find good people, right? I had lunch with Deepak Chopra on Monday and he was just talking about the magic of presence, which was the perfect way to start this week, right? Because there's so much going on.

5:58Everything is everywhere. Everyone is everywhere. Your mind could be in a million places. And so, you know, I started my week with that intention, which is to be present. So I'm going to start that here now, just be present with you guys. Do you have any hack in staying present all week? I mean, it's hard. It's been work. But I think just now, I just remind myself, be present here. Forget about everything else that was just on my plate. And just be here with you guys, right? Because this is where magic happens. Gail, look at you. I haven't seen you in too long. We go back. Yes. We've done work together at one of the world's great companies.

6:29Absolutely. Right? Absolutely. So why don't you tell a little bit of our history? So my name is Gael de Talouet. I'm VP Brand Building for SCT. We're a Swedish company. We are a leading company in hygiene and health. We have amazing brands like Libres, Nosotras on feminine hygiene. We do very creative, progressive advertising. We want a lot of lions at Cannes. We are very proud of our people. They are extremely courageous. So that's our take on brand building. You know, it's pushing the envelope, being more creative, being connected with our consumers. So yeah, we do medical products, professional hygiene.

7:08And I think Cannes has been this year a very good one. What struck me particularly is the return of creative simplicity. And I've seen amazing, amazing campaigns like Heinz, KitKat, Burger King. The creative simplicity is enormous and I just love it. And the humanity. Yeah, of course, it's anchored and grounded in real human inside. That makes you connect with the creatives. And that's the absolute truth. You're right, Jim. Absolutely. Tell me about this creative journey you're on. Sounds like it's accelerated. You're winning more Lions. It's not a category maybe that people think of in creativity.

7:46So just speak for a moment about what's been the catalyst or the driver for the creative elevation. I think we have two things. We have a real closeness with our consumers, women plus all over the world, people who menstruate. And we're trying to make their life better. And we have teams who really take that in their heart. The second thing is that trust is very important in our company. And we give our creative leaders and our comms leader the full mandate to create great advertising. As an example, I never see advertising before it gets aired, and that's a way to protect real creativity. And the third thing is long-lasting relationships with our agencies, AMV, Biblio, and Publicis.

8:39So the combination of these three factors, it empowers people to get what no one would have thought it would even be possible. We were the first one to show red blood on TV. Our ads were banned from a lot of platforms, a lot of countries. And that's because we empower our team. We have amazing comms leaders and we give them trust and courage. I love what you said about not seeing the work. I also continuously move into spaces where, you know, my prior role at Spotify, I probably saw maybe 50 % of the work going out the door. And today at Hinge, I probably see maybe 60 % before it's out in the wild.

9:22And I think it's such a testament to trusting your teams and your people because nothing feels better than owning the work, particularly when people are probably closer to the audience, right? I love hearing that. I say that a lot too. I don't see anything. Yeah, right, right. So name, role? I'm Jackie Jantos. I recently stepped into a president and CMO role at the dating app Hinge. And I have built my career working in youth culture scented brands, Coca-Cola, Spotify, and now working in the relationship space, primarily for young people. Half of our user base represents Gen Z. And so for me, I think the most exciting parts for me being at Cannes are connecting with young people who are here.

10:09It's a very exclusive environment and event, and it's very expensive for everyone to be here. And I just love being in conversation with young folks who have courage and come up to me after events. One of my favorite speaking events, was with the young editor-in-chief of Cosmo magazine, Willa Bennett. And, you know, the just like the energy and the life and the enthusiasm and also the like, what's happening here? Energy is really refreshing for me. And it keeps me motivated and excited and hopefully young. Yeah. I think what's so fun, too, is you have the wisdom of so many people that have been in this business for so long that are here.

10:56And then you have this young generation that's come in. And so you get to sort of have, you know, the wide range of opinions and values that come to this, which is really cool. And what I like also is we've been connecting a lot with these young talents, these young creators. Yeah. And when you ask them, how did you manage to be where you are? Then the answer is hard work, consistency, connecting with my audience. and you're like, these guys are teaching me a marketing lesson. The same thing we are preaching internally. They kind of discovered it by doing hand and manual work and they're the best marketing ambassadors working on their own brand.

11:40And I find that amazing from this young generation that they got the essential, they do it with passion, the fundamentals and the hard work. This is amazing. So we're going to talk, our theme a little bit today is community. I mean, we're going to go lots of different places, but I would like also, you know, while we're still warming up, give our audience a sense of what community you're a part of, that you're really passionate about or proud of, gives you lots of energy. So why don't we start with you, Les? Sure. Well, a big part of the brand with love is to build community and to bring people together around shared values.

12:13I was talking to someone today, a marketer earlier today, and I said, you know, besides AI, what is the biggest trend that you think that you're seeing in marketing and where are we headed? And he said, bringing people back to community. it's really we're going to have more time on our hands and people really want to do these in you know in real life events again and so i think that's where we're really headed as a brand it's really gather a bunch of thought leaders in the space not just have one face of this brand but have many people that stand for community and values and fun and joy again and how do we build a brand around that and you know a big community i've been a part of over the years is a summit community i don't know if anybody has ever been to summit but it's or any space i think where just you're surrounded by like-minded people, you know, and have a shared value system that are doing really incredible things that have thought leaders you can look up to and that you're part of this family, you know, and I think the people you can just bounce ideas off of and really learn and grow from.

13:05And so I'd love to just be a part of, you know, anywhere where I can accelerate myself and grow myself. Jackie, tell me what community that you're passionate about. We have this principle at Hinge that is with, not for, and it's about building our product and sort of everything with the individuals we're building for in the room early on upstream at strategy. And when we don't have that in place, then we have to complement that with nonprofits or organizations coming in. One of the best examples is work we did to help daters with ADHD. So we're sharing with us some of their struggles. And so we brought in DisabilityIn and Understood.org.

13:42And I think the type of work I love to do with the teams I love to be a part of, you know, have inclusivity at the core and you build just really close relationships because you're looking at the world with a very different perspective and your experience of life sort of broadens with the lived experiences of all these other people around you. And so I have a really close community with my colleagues at Hinge, some of who are here with me and make this experience for me that much more meaningful. But I also get to see my community of friends at Spotify when I'm in Cannes. So it feels like a coming home to go back to the beach that we built.

14:25And then I run into this community of Coca-Cola folks from all over the world. And so I think this week in particular, I'm just so grateful for these relationships you build with colleagues, often in purpose-driven organizations where you're trying to both grow a business and do right by a group of people. And you just, I have these really close bonds and it's fun to kind of see everybody in that world here. And I'm just like tickled by how fun it's been to run into folks this week. I think that's a real magic of Cannes. Honestly, we have, we have a big community. It's a big umbrella for those of us in brand building and marketing and human connections.

15:06And I, and that's why this place throngs. I mean, people love being part of the community, sharing ideas, elevating each other up, looking at great work our colleagues have done, congratulating them on the work. I mean, it's really, it's a fabulous week, I think, for gratitude and community. That's why I think it's the best festival. When the creativity, this exudes from everyone, right? It just inspires everyone, it moves everyone. It's a vibe here that - Yeah, and there's also the discussions we have. My personal experience is you come to Cannes when you have changed. You have changed something in yourself.

15:39You will change something in the way you do marketing. So that is also what you get from the community. It's just not seeing great work. It's getting internal change that makes you a better marketeer, a more creative person, probably more connected human. And that's what Kanz does to you, which is, ah, that's deeply emotional and deeply transformational. Totally. Gail, tell us about a community you're part of. We have to close the circle. For us, I think we like to un-stereotype the word community because a lot of simplification is, yeah, that's Gen Z and pop culture and music. And we're the world leader in incontinence, right?

16:22And that's a community of people who deserve respect and that we help have a better life, become autonomous. So community is not a cliche. It's whoever shares the same interests or passions or issues. And I think we need to help the world get rid of that stereotyping of community, like it's a bunch of young people doing hip-hop, which is not the case. All communities deserve respect.

16:57Everyone seems to be chasing the next big thing. The fastest answer, the quickest win. But great CMOs believe the real power isn't in the speed, it's in stepping back to see the bigger picture. That's why everything Deloitte does in their CMO program, from their industry-leading capabilities to their connected network of CMOs, is designed to help you zoom out and gain fresh perspective. Deloitte will help you see the bigger picture together. Learn more about the CMO program at cmo.deloitte.com.

17:30I played a game at dinner last night. We had a lot of people who were coming to my CMO program. They were meeting each other at dinner. We wanted an icebreaker. So we had cards with questions on them. And we set them at the tables. And they picked them up and they had conversation. And it worked so beautifully. And there's a podcast I like called Wild Card. Rachel Martin hosts it. And she has guests pick a card and read a question. So I'm going to borrow that concept from her for a minute. I'm using our cards from last night. at the CMO dinner. So I'm randomly going to pick a card and give it to each one of you.

18:01And there's two questions in each card. You choose the one you'd like to answer. So we'll start with you, Leslie. The two questions are, what brand do you admire the most and why? What book would you recommend to the table? Both good. God, there's so many brands that I admire, but I would say if there was one book I would recommend, it's not necessarily a marketing book. It's a life book, but it's called The Alchemist. I don't know if you guys have ever read The Alchemist, but it's really just about life's journey, right? And you're talking about, you know, we've been talking about community and just being here amongst shared values and the people that we love.

18:31And I think that book is really about these cosmic moments of sort of enjoying the journey and the clues along the way of life. Right. And I think here I've had some cosmic moments where I'm just walking down the street. I'm going home and I run into a friend, you know, who just gave me some insight into something that I needed for myself and for my brand. And if you're present, like to life, those magic things can happen. And so I love that book. It's one of my favorite books. I think it's really, it's not only about life, but it's just those magical moments and pivotal moments where you think, oh my God, why is this happening to me?

19:00It's all happening for you, you know? And how do you take that from there and make things better, whether it's for your brand or for yourself? Do you find that's a book you have to reread every once in a while? I try to reread it every year. I try to, because I think every year I get something else from it, you know? The best book I ever read, it's called Don't Make Me Think by Steve Krug. it's about user experience design and I used to use that a lot when I was doing tech web development social media stuff like that it just focuses you on making whatever you do as simple as possible and if you look at the complexity of the marketing world media ecosystem social media first party data I mean this is becoming incredibly complex and that just resets your mind by my job is to make the life of my consumers, the people I love as simple as possible.

19:55So don't make me think that's a constant wake up call I go back to regularly. So Jackie, keep it going. Something that I used to be kind of shy about admitting is the fact that I don't enjoy marketing or business books. Yeah. Well, they're usually repetitive, right? I love fiction. I love reading a diversity of writers and I love hearing people's stories. And I think actually I learned more about how individuals and different groups are imagining the future through a lot of the books I read. And a book that I read this year that I think sort of changed me a little bit was a book called Exit West.

20:32And this is the story of two young folks in their 20s sort of escaping impending war where they are and becoming immigrants and like moving around the world into different spaces. And I think it's one of those books that reminds you how a majority of the world lives, you know, and is deeply grounding and its relationship. You know, young folks would call it a situationship sort of evolving over time. And so it just has so many layers of story that I loved. I like where the cards are taking us. Do you have a book? Yeah, absolutely. Well, what I'm reading now is sort of the biography of Jose Cuervo.

21:16Oh, wow. Who, obviously, a tequila is named after him, but he was actually a very notable figure in Mexican politics and history. So I saw it reviewed in the Wall Street Journal. They really loved it. So I bought it on the early stages. I like nonfiction. My daughter and wife helped me get into fiction. I read The Parisian in fiction, which is a fabulous book. I always ask my daughter what to read. And then I interspersed with nonfiction. She buys a couple hundred books a year, hardcover. she is a book nut. And interestingly enough, she has like a nine-month-old and the nine-month-old sits on the bed and plays with books.

21:51Oh, wow. That's a good sign. Yeah, right. So, but the Jose Cuervo, so I'm reading, I'm starting. And then I would recommend The Parisian, which is a piece of fiction set in the, after World War I in Egypt, Palestine, and Paris. It's just very, very interesting. So thank you for asking. Gael, here you go, your turn. So guys, welcome to the Book Talk. Book Talk? Right. We'll change the name of the show. Yeah, exactly. So what book, film, or podcast has shifted the way you lead? Well, obviously, this podcast is absolutely life-changing. So absolutely. And we've talked books. Yeah, absolutely. So who do you admire outside of marketing and why?

22:31Oh, wow. I think artists create a lot of inspiration. Because what I was saying about creators, it's hardworking and creative. it's about being consistent and having the ability to reinvent yourself to be long-lasting it can also be very physical if you go on tour so i think that industry that people would see as more you know light-hearted and easygoing it's i think very similar to our job is being creative in a professional way, being courageous and trustworthy, being true to yourself and reinventing at the same time. So I think there's a lot of inspiration from that. Beautiful. Okay, your turn.

23:16Okay, I have what do you secretly geek out about outside of work? And what's one decision you've made in the past year you're really proud of? Oh, that's a charming one too, isn't it? Can we all answer that question? Yeah, we can all. That's good. That's a really feel good. That's a feel good one. So I recently stepped into a president role and our formerly little dating app is slowly becoming the number one dating app in all the markets where we operate tinkering at number two in some. And it's really focused on intentional relationships and getting people off the app and into dates. And that's what we measure.

23:54And so that's what we're trying to accelerate through the app experience and leveraging AI for recommendations and all these things. And I think this step from marketing, I'm mostly seen as a brand marketer, someone who loves social impact and inclusion and talks about all these things. And I'm sitting in an organization where what's happening in culture and relationships is driven by young people, changing perception of gender and identity and all these things. And so many of the insights coming out of the marketing organization have been so fundamental to iterating and developing a stronger product experience.

24:30And I think for me, the decision that I'm proud of is sort of courageously stepping into this more cross enterprise president role and sort of shaking off some of that feeling that marketers can't rise into roles that are business leaders, driving the business accountable for the P &L, all the things, especially when as a brand marketer, you can live in a world where people are skeptical of your ability to drive performance. And, you know, culture is the greatest driver of performance and connecting with it in my experience has come in every brand I've been a part of. So it's felt like a really inspiring moment for me personally and professionally that I'm glad I, I'm proud that I accepted you.

25:16We want to get to these two in a minute about what they're most proud of a decision in the last year, but I want to follow up on what you said. How did you shake that image? Came out of marketing at Procter & Gamble, my first general manager job where I had two countries, Eastern Europe, and I was truly general manager, all functioning. I was very intentional about not having too many meetings with marketing, delegating the marketing work, making sure I didn't go where my comfort zone was. I wanted to learn, ask questions about things I didn't understand as well, and be a true multidisciplinary leader of the total organization and business.