Chris Brandt (Chipotle Mexican Grill) | Crafting Food with Integrity

22:00Every Chipotle is a real restaurant. A lot of places are just reheating food. So, how do we tell those stories in new and interesting ways? How do we be relevant with young people? We embraced all kinds of different media. So, I think in the first few years, man, we were just establishing what Chipotle is about and really understanding the brand and tapping into those things. Now we have a lot more talented people at the company. They do a lot of that. They bring a lot of ideas. I think in social media, we're not just one of the best restaurant brands. We're one of the best brands in social. And that's a tribute to the team.

22:32And for me, listening to them. And, you know, we've learned a lot about this brand and over time. So and then I've taken on development. So we didn't have new restaurant development when I first started. So I took that on. That's been an education for me. I like those people know a lot more about real estate than I do. But I think learning to manage where I'm not the expert in that, but here's where I think we can help. And so we've hired some good people. They can handle a lot more of the details. And I can just sort of be a little bit of an orchestra conductor around things. And, you know, maybe the strategy and thought leader more than the doer that I was at the beginning.

23:07What are your priorities now, the personal priorities? What are you spending your time on? So, I think figuring out other ways to talk about the real fresh food and quality food of this brand. We've had a lot of success with our employees advertising. And, you know, I'll tell you, that insight was born out of when I got there. First thing you do at Chipotle is you spend some time in the restaurant learning the restaurant operation. That's where all the action happens. And I remember when I first started in 2018, it was my second week. And I went into the restaurant and I saw our morning prep. So people are coming in at six o 'clock in the morning and they start prepping the food for lunch, right?

23:44Because it takes four or five hours, multiple people to do it. It's a team. And, you know, we're bringing in whole avocados. We're bringing in whole onion. It's fresh chicken that's brought in, never frozen. And it was more like a farmer's market in there than any restaurant I'd ever seen. And I literally, I stepped out and I called our agency at the time. We're still with Venables. And I said, have you guys ever done morning prep? And they're like, no. And so I said, how about you do it next week? And so we set them up in San Francisco and they did it. And that was where the behind the foil ad came from.

24:18Because I'm like, we got to show our employees are heroes for doing this. And they were so proud and they were so skilled. And I wanted to make them the stars because they're the stars of the show. And so we sent out a message from me and the COO at the time, Scott Boatwright, who's now the CEO. And we asked people, I said, make me a short video that tells me everything that you wish people knew about Chipotle, but they don't. And the folks submitted them. We got like 200 videos. They didn't know at the time, but we use those for our casting tapes. And so we brought real employees. All of our employees are not paid actors.

24:53They're real employees in. And we just started filming them. And we hired a gentleman by the name of Errol Morris, who was famous for documentaries and his interview style. And that's his voice you hear on there. He believes real is beautiful and so do we. And so it was a great match. And that really launched those. And I think one of the challenges we've had is the employees see these ads. And so they try to feed us sometimes what we want them to say or what they think we want them to say versus being honest and genuine. And I think that was really the difference because they could talk about things in a really organic and authentic way that if we use VO or some other technique, it wouldn't have been nearly as impactful.

25:34Also, our ads, we really revamped the whole media plan. And so we started showing up in sports a lot more. And our ads were a little bit more earnest and quiet than your typical competitor type ads. And so that really broke through. And I think that we've been running that campaign on and off with other things sprinkled in there for seven or so years. But going back to the inside of that restaurant looks more like a farmer's market than any place. And remember, we're coming off food safety crisis. We don't have anything to hide. Let's just show people what we do and they will love it. And so based on that insight, we've just been as transparent and authentic as we can, even when it goes to hiring influencers, bringing people in, bringing them in the back of the house, showing them what we do.

26:18Some of our best posts we've done are employees who film themselves slicing and dicing in the back with real skills. People go, wow, I can't believe they do that. That's been a big piece of the pie and really effective, even as we've added more digital and done all those things and transformed the brand. just going back to the fundamentals of we're a real restaurant. I mean, you're one of the few brands that I think has a differentiating purpose that is so real, so right, so important. And you have conviction about it, which you just expressed, but you've stayed true to that. You know, I was looking back on your history.

26:53I mean, the Cultivating a Better World was 2012, right? Your Food with Integrity Platform, 2009, you know, that famous Back to the Start video. We didn't do that one, but I think it's the single best piece of creative ever in the restaurant space. And we were really, we can't remember, it must've been like 2020, 2021 that we did a sequel to it where we use the same stop motion animation and did all that. Today, you'd probably use AI to simulate it, but, and we use the same people who did it. And we, we did a second one we called, we did a future begins. Yeah. Where we took, there was a baby at the end of Back to the Start.

27:31We made it for A Future Begins. It starts with that person going off to college. And we told real farmer stories. I mean, and those were spawned. So we said, hey, we want to do a sequel. What's the story going to be? So we were trying to film content with a lot of the farmers. So as Chipotle has grown up over the years, one of the most challenging things for us is finding unadulterated food and contacting companies who have contacts with farmers that want to do it the right way with humane animal practices and free from antibiotics and all the bad stuff. So we started meeting some of these real farmers and we went out to Iowa and we started talking to these farmers and I didn't realize how emotional it was going to be.

28:11So these were family farms. They were raising hogs for our carnitas and those things and just how hard it is to be a farmer. And, you know, the average age of a farmer in America is something like 60 years old. And it's not a job, it's a calling. And this woman was telling us a story where she goes, I grew up on the hog farm, but I left. I went into the city and my dad got a hip injury and he said, I can't do this anymore. I'm going to have to sell the farm. And she goes, you can't do that. That's our family legacy. And so she left her job in the city, moved back to the hog farm, really didn't know that much about hog farming, but figured out how to do it.

28:51And the trials and tribulation of her, that's the story of A Future Begins that Stephanie and I basically said, hey, let's just tell this story. This would be interesting that the kid goes off, comes back to the farm. He adopts new practices and more modern practices that helps the family farm survive. That's where it came from. You know, again, grounded in that insight of, man, farming's hard, right?

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30:26I want to drill down a little bit on this. You've had consistency in your purpose, but lots of creativity in bringing it to life. That's hard to do. So what's your counsel? How do you lead a culture to stay grounded in the purpose? First thing you said when I said, how are you dealing with headwinds, was ground ourselves in the purpose. But set the expectation. We've got to innovate, got to change. But the purpose doesn't change. What do you do to reinforce that? How do you lead a culture like that? Because that's pretty magical. Yeah, I think you want to be clear about the things that you can't violate.

31:02I mean, and we have a good sense. You have to have a good sense of the tone of your brand and what it is. And so the tone of Chipotle's brand got really defensive over food safety and got really controlling about it. And so by the time we went, look, our food safety was solid and food safety was elevated to an absolute science, you know, in the 2015, 2016 era. So we don't have those kind of issues anymore, but there was still a lot of latent love for that brand because it's craveable food you feel good about eating. And so, how do we tap into that? And, you know, we kind of have to acknowledge a little bit that this brand isn't just owned by us, it's owned by everybody.

31:40And there's a lot of, and we wanted to be cool and we wanted to be relevant. So, you know, we set out with Chipotle in 2018. It's one of our key tenets of the brand that there's five things we want to do, improve operations, those things. But one is make the brand more visible, more relevant, and more loved. And so, we look to embrace people's brand love. And there are a lot of people, you can imagine, I love Chipotle. I eat it multiple times a week. But there are people who express their brand love in ways that I find phenomenal. Mikkel Williams from the Knicks has said he's eaten it every day for 10 years.

32:11God bless him. But I think that we knew we had to be relevant with people in their 20s. That's because people ask, well, who's your consumer target? Well, we have 2 million people now a day that come in at Chipotle. And so we have people from three years old to 80 plus. Right. But we want to be relevant people in their 20s. Because why? Because people in their 20s define what's cool in culture, whether it's in sports or music or whatever. And so if we're always relevant with them, we'll never go out of style. And the cool thing about people in their 20s is whether you're in your 40s or 50s or whether you're in your teens, you want to be in your 20s.

32:46And so it kind of is a nice battleground for us. And we also, again, I'll go back to what I said before. Our brand is different. We want to show up in different ways. So that gives us a freedom to experiment. How do we bring new people into the fold? And so we did collaborations with cosmetics companies like Elf. We did one lip hole. So the insight was, hey, your lipstick rubs off on the burrito. How do we do a lip stain with a company that has a similar philosophy about testing and everything that we do? How do we do those things? And so all of a sudden now our brand is showing up in girls' cosmetics and young ladies' cosmetics and things.

33:24as a place. Wow. What other food brand can be there? And, you know, we, we did a partnership in Formula One when it was certainly it still is on the rise, but we did that. What other restaurant brand shows up there? We were at the Rose Parade because the Rose Parade is all natural ingredients. Hey, we're all natural ingredients. Let's do that. So we, we just created that culture of experimentation and I like to be first. That was, so it's like, how do we do something where we're first and what are these other partnerships? I'm like, we are video gaming. When, when I came there in 2018, Fortnite was single-handedly lowering the GPA of every young male in America.

33:59And I'm like, how do I get a piece of this? And so, a friend of mine worked in media, called me and said, hey, I'm working with this gaming company. They got three guys up here in Manhattan Beach that are playing. They're three of the top 15 players in Fortnite. They eat Chipotle three times a week. Are you interested? And we're like, yeah, we're interested. Again, we start small on things and then we'll pour the gas to what works and we'll pivot to what doesn't. And I think when we started out, want to make sure we show up right in the culture. And we wanted to just didn't want to parade around these three guys as splashy.

34:31We wanted to feel authentic that no, this is what they do already. We don't pay anybody to extol the virtues of the brand who already isn't a brand fan. And I will tell you the other part is, so we've been on Roblox, we're at the Rose Parade, we're at all these different places. But the one tenet that the team talks about that I say all the time is, great, well, don't be lame because you only get one chance to make a first impression. So, if we're going to show up with - It's head and shoulders. If we're going to show up with, right. If we're going to show up with Elf or we're going to show up with Lipotle or we're going to show up in gaming or we're going to show up in sports, don't be lame.

35:04Make sure you understand that platform and we do it the right way. And I remember the team, when we first did our Roblox execution, we've created a bit of a Chipotle world in Roblox. And I remember when they first pitched me the idea, they said, yeah, we're going to create this branded world inside of Roblox and it's going to be awesome. And I'm like, well, the potential for it to suck is really high because when brands start going on other platforms and creating their own worlds, it could be bad. And I'm like, I don't care how much time and energy and even money we've spent on this. If it's lame, we will not launch.

35:38And the team said that was always in our head that don't be lame, don't be lame. And you know what? They created a great world that we've built on multiple times now. But that legacy of, hey, have a sense of urgency. Let's experiment, but don't be lame. Kind of works. And you're doing this with a small group. Pretty small group. Yeah. And that's pretty amazing. That's pretty amazing. So it's just that their core work, they're seen as constantly innovate, do stuff that isn't lame. We hired all of those people. You know, I talked about the conference room test, but we hired all of them for, I want ideas because ideas help you differentiate.

36:11Ideas help you separate. Ideas help you win. There's no substitute for creativity. And we just want people who can generate ideas and they can, we always talk about in social. We're looking for that intersection of Chipotle and culture. And we just we found it recently. So I didn't know this. So they brought me the idea of Friday the 13th is a big day in the tattoo community. And we had back in 2019, Adam Levine was performing at the Super Bowl and he took off his shirt and somebody posted Adam Levine's tatted up like a Chipotle bag because our Chipotle bags have graphics and everything else. And he was a pretty good poster child for that.

36:49And so that kind of went viral at the Super Bowl. So we've had this legacy of tatted like a Chipotle bag. And so we did a one hour buy one, get one for people who had a tattoo is one of our most successful promos we've ever done. They lit up the restaurant. People were very appreciative and man, did it work well. Yeah. So I think finding those ideas and when somebody brings you an idea like that and they get to execute it, that's pretty rare. There's not a lot of bureaucracy. That's the other beauty is, you know, when we're doing something on the brand, me and Stephanie pretty much decide. And there's not a lot of red tape.

37:23And it's just, how do we get it out there? How do we get it out there quickly and effectively? And don't be lame. Now, your career path, right? It's almost destined to bring you to this role. You had three academy companies, General Mills, Coca-Cola, Yum! Brands. So pretty amazing background. So speak about that for a moment. I mean, how did that shape you to be the kind of leader you are right now that's talking so confidently about this brand that you're watching over? I started out in finance. So when I was an econ major in college, I worked in banking. and then I went to work for an equity investment company.

37:52And I had to get kind of into marketing for them, for financial services. And I thought everybody at that company, besides maybe me and one other person had an MBA. So I feel like, okay, do I have to go back and get an MBA? I should go back and get an MBA. And so when I went back to business school at UCLA, I really wanted to see what this brand management thing was because I wanted to market a physical product. I thought that would be cool. And so I ended up getting a job out of business school at General Mills. So, I went to General Mills. General Mills really was a great foundation in brand management and brand architecture and all those things you learn at General Mills.

38:27Very P &G-like, yeah. Or you learn at P &G is very much General Mills. And you know what? That was a purposeful decision. I wanted to go to P &G or General Mills and have somebody teach me something. Because when I got out of even college, I went to work for a bank because they had a training program. And I'm like, well, they'll teach me how to analyze financial statements, which has been really helpful for me my whole career. I mean, I don't – in a lot of ways, I think marketing and all of the numbers and performance and marketing mixed models and everything sort of pushed back to my background of the finances and all that stuff.

38:58And so General Mills taught me a lot about that. I worked on some great brands there. I worked on cereal. I worked on Nature Valley was kind of a big moment. I was a brand manager. It was my first – my second brand manager job, I guess, was Nature Valley. What a gem to have. I had a great boss named Beth Brady, and she kind of let me run. And that really job gave me the confidence that I can do this brand management stuff. I might be good at this. And then I worked various jobs. I left there and I went to Odwalla, a brand called Odwalla. It was a premium juice and bars brand. It was owned by Coke.

39:29It was not in Atlanta. It was down in Houston. That brand looked like a lot like Nature Valley, but kind of a different category a little bit. And so kind of did that. And then after about a dozen years in CPG, I'm like, I think I got this. And then Taco Bell called. And at that point, we loved living down in Texas, but I felt like I had to move. And so, we went to Southern California, worked with Taco Bell. Taco Bell and Yum taught me how to be a marketer. I think I got the brand management education at General Mills and some maybe at Ben Onovala, but I got a marketing education of promos and retails fast.

40:06And so promos and, you know, I worked on brands that had a lot of advertising presence in General Mills, but they were three or four ads a year. Man, we might have made 25 ads a year. So I learned from those folks how to do ads, how to do effective ads, how to manage retail, how to manage the calendar, how to move quickly. And so that was a big that really, I think, between those two things really set me up to succeed at Chipotle for sure. In terms of mentors along the way, can you think of one or two super influential ones? Well, Beth Brady was one I mentioned because she gave me the confidence and the trust to kind of go.

40:42And I think, you know, I kind of model my management style on hers like, hey, give people some challenges and let them go. Brian Nickel has been a great partner. You know, we turned around Taco Bell. We've definitely turned around Chipotle. And so he was a good sounding board and, you know, a good guy, good friend. So I would say those people were probably the most influential, but boy, there's been a lot of people. And I would, I'd have to say Stephanie, I mean, you know, she's worked for me, but she, she works alongside me and, you know, she's a great, we covered a lot of how great she is, but she certainly I've learned a lot from her.

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42:21You've worked longer at this brand and this company than anyone in your career. Did you imagine that coming in? No. I mean, you know, being a CMO is a risky proposition. I mean, I say I don't buy green bananas. You never know what could happen, right? But I thought, honestly, that my Taco Bell job, my Taco Bell years would be the best job I ever had. And Manchipole is even better than that. And so I got a note from the New York Times and they wanted me to speak on some panel. They said, because you're one of the longest tenured CMOs in the Fortune 500. And I just thought, wow, I mean, it's gone by fast.

42:55I remember everybody says that, but it's true. But again, I get to work with my friends on a brand I believe in, in a great place. So there you go. What do you hope your legacy will be? I hope it's with the people, right? That they learned some stuff from me, that they had a good time doing it and they want to give back to other people. I hope that's a big legacy, but I'm proud of the legacy we left it, even at Taco Bell, where we launched Live Moss, we launched Doritos, Oco's Tacos, that the innovation pipeline and stuff we left there, they're still kind of mining some of that stuff today. And they've done a great job with the brand since we left.

43:25And then look, Chipotle, I think that mission of we're bringing better food to more people. And that's a pretty heady thing. So, you know, whether they, I remember it or not, I'm not that concerned, but those brands live on forever and I hope they do. And it's a pretty awesome thing to say you worked on them. We're going to move to the creative brief and I'm going to bring our small audience into this in a moment. Oh, great. We have a small live audience here, but the first question is what brand do you remember as a child making an impact on you? The first time you remember a brand being meaningful to you?

43:55I would probably say it has to be some cereal brands. Like I remember Tony the Tiger and I ate a lot of Frosted Flakes and I ate a lot of Fruit Loops with Toucan Sam. So I remember those ads, but I would also say. The ironic analogy of Chipotle, by the way. Well, I worked for General Mills where those are Kellogg's brands. But thanks to my mom, we were a Kellogg's household. So I would say those brands, I saw them advertised all the time and they were, you know, they were influential for sure. What's the campaign or initiative in your, you've worked on so many in your career, the one that is, you remember being most meaningful to you?

44:25I would say the stuff that we've done, I think on Back to the Start 2, we talked a little bit about that. We did another spot called Human Nature that really juxtaposed what we do and what others do. But as we really are trying to partner with nature and not fight nature and what we grow and how we do it, we did was a pure brand ad and it really worked for us. And so, and I'd also say behind the foil, because we made the people that work in those restaurants every day, we made those people heroes and celebrities of their own right in their towns. And that's pretty cool too. Yeah. I don't know why more brands don't do that.

45:00I mean, really celebrate the people in the company. They're on the front line every day. And those are hard jobs. I mean, when I was working in the restaurant, just standing up for eight hours a day is no mean feat. And the culinary skills that they have and the dedication, we're lucky. There's so many people have transformed their lives at Chipotle and you don't have to have a formal education. You can we have the stories are legion and we have a few of our regional vice presidents. So they're they're the guys who reported the COO. They started in the restaurant. It's just amazing stories. And they're proud of what they do and what they've accomplished.

45:34And, man, they really, you know, they have responsibility for billions of dollars. It's pretty amazing. Let's go to our small audience here. And I want to ask you something that may have inspired you from the discussion we've been having or a question you have for Chris. Yeah. So my name is Marko Ivanov. So a few nights ago, maybe weeks ago, we had a Chipotle family night, right? And red chimichurri was what we had, right? So it started a conversation of who likes it, who doesn't. It was three to one. So three of us liked it. Did you just boot the other person out of the family? Unfortunately, it's my wife.

46:08So we really can't do that. But menu innovation, right? How important is that for maintaining the brand recognition, brand growth, and then how do you balance it, not to do it too often? Yeah, it's a great question and critical. And I will tell you that Chipotle really hadn't done any kind of LTOs, mostly protein LTOs is what we do. So think of the most successful one we've ever had is one we just did on Chipotle honey chicken. There's nothing like doing an LTO on a protein that brings new people into the brand and then reactivates your existing people to come more. And so the balance though is how do you make it work operationally?

46:46Because our operations of all of that morning prep and everything are quite complex and you have to train all these people and all these restaurants. And it's harder than it is at a lot of places that are just reheating stuff or there comes frozen, right? So good example is we launched quesadilla. The quesadilla is only available digitally because it slows the line down inside the restaurant too much. So we tested it in both places and the operators were out there like, yeah, we can do it in the restaurant, we're like, no, it slows it down. And we can't slow that line down. It needs to go fast.

47:16So we're balancing a great marketing idea that doesn't work operationally is a really bad idea for the place. So we have a stage gate process that we vet all these things. And I think we're going to have to do more innovation. And the sauce innovation is a good one because it's low cost, it's approachable for people, it's very affordable, and it really can change the experience that you have at Chipotle. So that will continue to be important for us. And as we get through this macro environment, you're going to see us do more innovation. And the good news is we've got a kind of a good formula for vetting it.

47:47And, you know, the field is like, let's go. One more question. My name is Adi Adios and I'm TransUnion. So I love the, this notion of urgency, the idea of, you know, when are the two worst days to do something? I think it was what you said, which was, you know, yesterday or tomorrow. So how do you balance, when you think about that, How do you balance that with making sure that, you know, you've got the precision in what you want, right, in terms of making sure that actually the outcome really meets the standard that you want to see? Great question. Again, I mentioned I went to UCLA Business School, so can't go through a whole interview without a John Wooden quote, right?

48:24And he had one of my favorite quotes of all time is, be quick, but don't hurry. And I think that's what we have to do. It's like we can't, again, we need to do the things and vet the things to our stage gate process that keeps us honest and make sure that everyone's on board. But we can do that in an expedited manner and have a sense of urgency about it. But we can be quick, but we can't rush. It's when we rush, we'll get in trouble. If we start skipping steps or become complacent about the three greens of consumer, the financials and the operator, as long as those folks are on board, we'll win.

48:57It may take a little bit more time than we like, but it'll still be faster because we have that sense of urgency. So that's how we balance it, right? And you get a good person like Stephanie who's good on process. She tempers my enthusiasm, right, for sometimes for getting things to market really quickly. So, Chris, we'll wrap with two questions. First one, who's been the most inspiring person in your life? I would say my wife. I mean, my wife has been – I got to marry my best friend. and she has really stood by me through everything and we moved around a lot. There's a cost to that, right? And I would not have been nearly successful without her.

49:34And so everything we do, I mean, I enjoy spending time with her. We see so many couples have trouble. We do not have any. We've certainly had our ups and downs, but she's my rock and she's a great supporter and I would not have been half as successful, half as successful as I have been without her. Do you talk business with her? She does, but she gives me, you know, everybody's a marketer, so you get a lot of feedback. And so I can always tell when I'm going to get some marketing feedback because she goes, well, I know I might not be the target, but this is what I'm saying. And so, yeah, so there's a lot of, you know, I will also say she's very candid.

50:08And, you know, you might think you're special in some because you're standing up on some stage. Don't think you're special here. You know, you need to still take out the trash. She's grounding, grounding, yeah. Yeah, but she's very smart. And she manages the whole household. And, you know, that has freed me up to just focus on, you know, what I'm good at. Now we're here at the ANA. Bob Liudias, the CEO, finishes every presentation with a question to the speaker. What's your advice to the audience to do when they return to work? So I'm going to turn it to you. What's your advice to the audience based on the conversation we've had about building a great brand?

50:37What's your advice to them when they return to work? Look, you can be bombarded with all of the changes and things. And I would tell you to embrace change, right? There was a quote in the AI presentation today from Winston Churchill. He's a quote machine. But it said, if you don't take change by the hand, it's going to grab you by the throat. And I think that, you know, there's another one he has to improve is to change to be perfect is to change often. People, when confronted with change, tend to focus on what they might lose as opposed to what they might gain. And I think that if especially if you're a brand that's not doing well, hey, this is your chance to really change things.

51:13And, you know, and that's why I like innovation so much. It's your chance to create the future. Let's change this. A trend is not fate. You can change your future. And I think when you embrace the parts of change, you think about the changes that you've had that have been good. Focus on the good parts and the positives and not the negative part of change that makes you uncomfortable. But your brain, look, it's hardwired to resist change because in the old world, you could, that was dangerous. But it's not that dangerous now. What's dangerous now is not adapting and embracing change. So I'd say embrace change and have a sense of urgency.

51:48Thanks, Chris. Thanks for having me. Appreciate you. Yeah, my gosh, yes. That was my conversation with Chris Brand. Three takeaways from this one for your business brand and life. First one, fundamentals outlast trends. Chris sees AI and technology transforming the marketing landscape, but the rules of great brand building haven't changed. His philosophy? Stay anchored in the fundamentals while reinventing how you express them. Trends will come and go, he says. The fundamentals remain the same. Brands don't have life cycles. You just keep reinventing how you tell the story. Second takeaway. Great teams run on trust, speed, and humanity.

52:27Chris's leadership playbook centers on building teams that move fast and treat people well. If you wouldn't want to be stuck with them at a conference room at 5 o 'clock on a Friday, we're not hiring them, he says. He leads by example, never asking anyone to do something he wouldn't do himself. And he drives a culture of urgency balanced with care. His mantra, inspired by John Wooden, is simple. Be quick, but don't hurry. Third takeaway, authenticity is the ultimate differentiator. From real employees and ads to brand experiments in gaming, cosmetics, and sports, Chipotle only shows up where it can be authentic.

53:00The internal rallying cry, don't be lame. For Chris, creativity is only powerful when it feels real and when every move reinforces the brand's purpose of cultivating a better world.

53:14That's it for this week's episode of the CMO Podcast. As always, I would be grateful if you shared our show with your friends, along with subscribing and leaving a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen. The CMO Podcast is a Vive Original Production. The views and opinions expressed by podcast speakers and guests are solely their own and do not reflect the opinions of our sponsors or its personnel, nor do our sponsors advocate or endorse any individuals or entities featured on the episodes.