From Startup to Legacy: How Life Stages Shape Leadership, featuring Shutterstock, Audemars Piguet and Cymbiotika

0:00Hi, it's Jim. Joining me is Matt Spiegel, EVP of True Audience Growth Strategy at TransUnion. Matt, we talk a lot on this show about building brands that people love, but that starts with understanding them, right? Jim, absolutely. Every customer ultimately has a story, but most brands are only going to see part of it. At TransUnion, we really focus on helping marketers connect those dots across devices, across channels, across platforms with the goal of helping marketers see a full person behind the data. That clarity is gold. That is special. So how do you do it? Ultimately, we put together the pieces of information that help you predict behavior, help you personalize messages, prove the impact of every marketing decision at the end of the day.

0:37And our marketing solution suite gives brands the visibility and confidence to invest smarter and ultimately grow faster. So if you want to turn data into understanding and understanding into growth, visit transunion.com slash clarity. Hey, it's Jim. I'm here with Matt Spiegel, EVP of True Audience Growth Strategy at TransUnion. That's quite a job title, Matt. Yes. Welcome. Thank you. So tell me about your company and why it matters for our audience CMOs. Well, listen, Jim, the challenge of the day is that there's so much information about consumers out there and the challenge is most companies don't have all that information.

1:08You have some purchase history, you maybe have some web history, but you don't have a full picture of customers. We're working really hard across on a suite of identity products, audience products, and measurement products to bring a holistic view of customers to marketers. So when CMOs work with you, what light bulbs go off for them? So Jim, we help brands bring clarity from chaos. We help them understand a picture of their customers with a 360-degree view in order for marketers to make bigger, more strategic bets. Well said, Matt. Learn more at transunion.com slash clarity. That's transunion.com slash clarity.

1:42What if the smartest marketing play is not to move forward, but to zoom out? Deloitte believes the most powerful move a CMO can make is to look beyond the next step and see the broader perspective. That's what the Deloitte CMO program is for, a place to gain fresh perspective and connect with leaders who've stood where you stand. Together, Deloitte will help you see the bigger picture so your next move isn't just fast, but right. Learn more about the CMO program at cmo.deloitte.com. Hi, I'm Jim Stengel. I've helped hundreds of major brands discover and activate their purpose. Because when a brand's purpose is clear, compelling, and authentic, profit naturally follows.

2:22Each week, I welcome the CMOs, the chief marketing officers of your favorite brands, to speak to how their job is so much more than marketing. These leaders share their inspiration and challenges, along with how they try to build a full, healthy, and happy life in and out of the office. And it's that energy that reaches everyone they touch. And we're glad you're here to feel that energy and to learn from these remarkable leaders. So here we go. This week is a special episode. Three women who had never met gathering for this episode of the CMO Podcast in person from the Cannes Lions Festival. We recorded on a big cushy sofa at the Brand Innovators LVMH Villa presented by Shutterstock.

3:03And it did not take long before these women warmed up and shared their stories. Here's a bit about the three women on this week's show. First, we have Amy Egan, Chief Enterprise Officer of Shutterstock, the company that powers creativity through its content and innovative storytelling tools. Amy brings a perspective of driving growth and transformation in one of the world's most influential content companies. Second, Sophie Bamboek, the recently appointed chief marketing officer of Audemars Piguet, the Swiss luxury watch manufacturer, founded way back in 1875. Sophie, who was a guest on this show about five years ago when she was CMO of Everlane, offers a fresh take on building a luxury brand, but with a deep respect for its heritage of craftsmanship.

3:47And third, we have Dorana Elmi, founder and COO of Symbiotica, the wellness supplements company founded in 2018 in San Diego. Durana shares her entrepreneurial journey of building a wellness brand from the ground up, fueled by grit and innovation. Together, we explore how life stages influence leadership style, how personal and professional growth intertwine, and what it takes to keep pushing boundaries no matter where you are in your journey. Here we go on a lovely conversation.

4:28Welcome, ladies, to the CMO Podcast. I have to say of all the recordings I'm doing, Can Week, and I'm doing a lot, this is the most diverse in every way, so I am so looking forward to it. And we have a great studio audience. Can we hear it?

4:44Now, you know, this is a crazy environment, Can, right? It's bigger than ever, it's hotter than ever. We're all running around. So, Darana, you're in this wellness business. Yes. So, what can we do right now to just kind of chill and relax before jumping into the conversation? I think being still and being present in the moment. For me, just taking an opportunity with these beautiful women, just feeling grateful, right? There's so much going on in the world today. and for us to be here in this moment together, making impact and being a part of the cultural change that's happening is incredibly powerful.

5:22So I would just say the stillness, feeling inspired by one another and the gratitude. We're here in this incredible villa. It feels like a dream. We're here in the LVMH Villa with this beautiful view of the Mediterranean with a swimming pool 30 feet away. Should we just wrap it up and take a dip? I think so. I think so. Well, thank you for that. Thank you for that. Well, listen, I want to stay with Can here. How many years have you been coming? First year. First year. My second. Second year. But I bet your dad's been. Oh, yeah. We'll talk about that later. So what's your impression? What's the vibe?

5:57I think it's interesting that you have two worlds here. You have the creative world and you have the media world. and I'm observing that people are forgetting the origin. Or I think the creative part is being now just relegated to, is the palais, and if you're not in the palais, you don't see anything. So everything is very media, all the parties, all the events, a lot of the dinners, etc., are very media-driven. My favorite part of Cannes is what I did this morning, is I spent two hours and I go look at the work in the basement of the palais just to get inspired, to understand what works, to see what people are doing.

6:31I think there's a lot of people that come here and that don't even show up at the Palais at all. And that's a bummer. So that's my observation. That's my truth is go see the work. It's awesome. And that's kind of why we're here. There's really no media if you don't have content. Let's stay with you for a moment. Your father was big in the advertising industry in Paris. He's been here in the early days. So what's his impression of the festival? Oh, you know what? I haven't talked to him about it. I think the one thing he knows is like, it's not what it was. Meaning today it's just big production.

7:01There was no tents on the beach and no all night parties and big DJs coming. I mean, it was work. I think people were coming here to work. So I think it's evolved, I think pretty dramatically. Good or bad. I don't know. I think there's some good elements to it. It's nice to put marketing at the forefront. For once, we tend to be ignored a little bit. The strength is everyone's here. You just have to make the most of that. First year for you two. Amy, what do you think? Anything happened to you this week that you'll remember? Oh, absolutely. So we were chatting just a little bit before we started this conversation.

7:34And I think one of the things for me is like the idea of feeling the connections and being in the conversations. And, you know, I tend to spend a lot of time, you know, internal conversations for lack of a better term. And I work really hard to make sure that I get, you know, concentrated time talking to people that are doing what we do and talking to leaders in marketing and creative and advertising. And so this is a place where I'm literally every corner I turn around, I'm having those conversations and I feel like it's such a privilege. And so I'll remember a lot of, you know, sort of poignant moments and really cool experiences.

8:13But one of the things I think I'll just take with me overall is just how incredibly powerful it is to just reconnect and feel connected to what people are really dealing with right now and just like get to talk to people about their world and their lives. Yeah, I would have to agree with that. You know, first year here. How do you spend the week as your first year? Well, I have to say I'm very, very fortunate. If it was up to me, I'd be by the pool with a glass of champagne. But we have an incredible team that's kept the schedule just very intentional. For me, as someone first time here in the wellness space, the conversion of creativity and consciousness and connection has been so real.

8:52And the thing that I leave from here, the connections that I've made. I'm inspired by women like the two women alongside me here today. I've, you know, brought my daughters here because for me, this is about what's possible. The impacts that we're making in the world aren't trends, but we're making true cultural shifts. And it's, it's been an amazing journey. And the energy that I'm getting from all the connections is, is what for me is, is forever. I do hang out with you. Like this is Let's go. It's just like all positive and love it. You know, I think that's what it's about, right? I always tell my children, if you go somewhere and you're bored, if you go somewhere and you don't see the colors or the experiences, that's a personal choice.

9:35But we've made really personal choices with the meetings and the connections and the people that we're meeting because it is very real for us. And in these moments where we will never get back, the moment is now. And so it's been really beautiful. Fantastic. What? That's the strength of it. A question I ask on my show, Sophie has been on my podcast years ago when you were at Everlane. I always ask, what's the first brand in your life that you recall having an impact on you? So Sophie, let's start with you. There's two that pop in my mind. One is EGL and the other is Nike. EGL because my dad worked on EGL and so like he was bringing work home.

10:11And so I just remember him explaining to me how to brand a company and like he was working on branding and what is the name, what is the logo. And so a lot of the conversations were, what does it look like this and what does it mean? And what is the emotion behind it and understanding? That was the first conversation. That's why for me it was like a pure marketing brand exercise more than anything. But then I also say Nike because it was part of my, I was an athlete. And so it was life. It didn't feel like a brand. It just felt like. What was your sport? I was a swimmer. I was a swimmer. But as a part of swimming, we do a lot of running.

10:48That's painful. And you worked at Nike for 15 years. So a big imprint. Yeah. Yeah. Dorana, first brand you remember. So I'm with her. Like I have two brands. First, I would say as a young girl, it was Chanel because Chanel as a woman taught you that, listen, you don't have to be apologetic for being feminine and you can be who you are. And then there's a, there's a space for you and you can also still dress a little masculine, but be feminine. So as a young girl, it started with Chanel. And I've always really admired Hermes. And because of their craftsmanship, because they don't cut corners, the integrity is so important for what they do.

11:30That's, you know, kind of what we emulate at Symbiotica. It's about the craftsmanship. It's about, you know, staying true to why you're doing this, the purpose, the integrity. And so those would be my two brands that I connect with, I would say, on a very deep level. Amy. Slight departure. I would say the brand that first really stuck, the memory that sticks with me around a brand is Guest Jeans, 14 years old. And I - We hear that a lot. Saved up my baby. Yeah, good. Okay. I guess that, you know, things like that really with young people, they really kind of make their mark. Saved up my babysitting money.

12:07My parents were not interested in funding that desire. And bought my first pair of Guest Jeans, which meant so much to me and proceeded to wear them on a camping trip and wash them on a rock and they blew away. That's sad. It was a great lesson in resilience and impermanence. So yeah, it was, I got another pair eventually.

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13:42So we're going to talk today, I think, a little bit about courageous decisions, and we'll get to that in a minute. But I think still in the warm-up phase to get to know you better. I'd love to hear a surprising insight about your company. And you're at different levels. You're new in your company. You're a founder, and you've been at your company a bit, but it's going through some change. So you're all at interesting times. So a surprising insight about your company, and then a surprising insight about yourself as a leader. Something that I might not be able to find out is something that is precious to you so maybe some people call a superpower or maybe a quirk I'll kick it off I'll say what's probably been the most insightful is the trends that are popping up in wellness and for us as a brand and as a company our true ethos has been about staying true to who we are we've never backed into gross margins but we have done is made the best supplements to really change the narrative of health and wellness and how it's being accessed to the world.

14:39And, you know, from my daughter's age to my grandmother, you know, health is no longer a luxury. It's a choice we make. And for me personally, being a young girl that was born in Afghanistan, I feel incredibly privileged to be here. And I think that leadership is a responsibility. And this journey is very personal for me. It's, I want my daughters to know that they too one day can be in this seat, sitting with incredible women. There was a time where women couldn't do what we do today, but women now are sitting bold and across the men in the room and making those decisions. And I think the deep inspiration comes from the power of women and the power when we stick together and support each other, what's capable and what's possible.

15:27I always say women are the light of the home and why would you ever dim that? And so Symbiotica is very much about supporting women, embodying women. It's, you know, decisions are being made by women for women and I'm incredibly proud of that today. The inspiration for the company. I lost my father who I had a very rocky relationship with because I wanted to be this bold woman and my culture, you know, from what my father grew up as. I learned very, very early to forgive him and understand his childhood. And the culture was, as a woman, you should go cook and clean. But I wanted to be in the rooms that made decisions.

16:08I wanted to be in the rooms of creativity. And I wanted to be in the room where I wasn't told to be silenced. And so for my father, I was a little too bold. The inspiration came from when we lost our loved ones, like my father, who I didn't have enough time with. I wanted to really understand like why did I have such a tough childhood with you and I'm grateful for it because it was the grit it was the adversity that I went through that made me who I am today but I wanted more time and I think time is the greatest luxury that you have today and the greatest you know commodity and we started this business because we want to be able to feel proud of the supplements and the lives that we're changing.

16:54And we're doing that today with Symbiotica. So a surprising insight about you as a leader. I get from you, you're empathetic and you're a listener and you care. I really tap into my energy. And most people don't know, but I audit my energy. If something doesn't make me feel good or someone doesn't make me feel good, then I'm out. I'm out of the room. It's not for me. I realized that when I'm, when I surround myself with people and women that really make me feel good, that's when I'm, I'm really performing at my highest frequency. And that's when I'm tapping into my power. And I think being aware of that is so important.

17:36There's so many distractions. There's so much noise, but to be able to turn off that noise and say, did that make me feel good? Did she or he or that room or that experience make me feel good? And if the answer is no, that's okay. But being really honest with yourself, I think is really important. You feeling good now? I feel incredible. Are you kidding me? Look who I'm surrounded by. So Amy, let's go to you. Surprising insight about your company, which I think everyone knows about, but do they really know about? Well, that is, I'm excited to share just from my own experience. So I'm two years at Shutterstock in July.

18:12So just coming up upon two years. and it's been a journey. It feels, you know, feels in many days, a lot longer than two years. And I think that has a lot to do with the journey we've been on and the journey the company was on long before I joined is about growing with our customers and with the market and developing new capabilities, but in many ways sort of doing it incognito or sort of behind the scenes. And we've really continued up until really now, hopefully, you know, in these days, we're starting to change this, But we've been really, really deliberate about building, but not about talking about what we're building.

18:48And so, you know, we're known and we're really proud of the years of serving the industry with stock photography and then video and audio and 3D eventually. But what we don't talk about is all the other capabilities that Shutterstock has. So as we've moved into, we have an incredible studio that does award-winning work across commercial and documentary. We have, you know, we have capabilities that people look at me regularly here and at other places and say, I had no idea Shutterstock did that. So this week we actually launched a rebrand that is all about making sure that we are not doing it incognito anymore.

19:28and that we're in fact talking about how we feel great work, how we partner with our customers to bring more capabilities to bear. And it's kind of think about it like a tapestry of capabilities that not everybody needs everything we have, but kind of weave together the things that folks need to power their businesses, really. So to me, I think that is quite surprising based on the conversations I have and the looks I get when people say, wait, Shutterstock does that? So it's really exciting to be part of telling the story about what we fully do. And so that's where we are right now on the journey.

19:58As a leader, it's interconnected. I am, I gravitate towards transformation and we live in an always on transformation world as leaders. So I think that can sometimes sound almost cliche at this point that we are, you know, when someone says, oh, I really like roles where teams are in transformation, welcome to the club. What I mean when I say it and what I've learned about myself as a leader and where I thrive and then where I get kind of bored is that I'm looking for places that are on the bleeding edge of transformation, that are really pushing the edge of what's possible in an industry, in a community, with teams.

20:37and then once that era of pretty intense transformation has moved through, I'm looking for new challenges, both within companies I've been in and outside. But that to me is probably an insight that it would take you a little time to find out about me if you were doing an internet search. So. So Sophie, you're relatively new at your company, so you're still onboarding. I am. And it's an amazing company. I've spent the weekend with your CEO. Oh, great. Great woman. Yeah, she's fantastic. Four months in. So what surprised you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the company is Audemars Piguet. Fantastic CEO is Elaria Rasta.

21:11She's brilliant. You know, honestly, everything so far has surprised me because when you're on the outside and you don't come from either the watch industry or honestly luxury, because most of my background has been in sports and really apparel footwear, I've always had an appreciation for it, but I've never worked in it. And so on the outside, you can expect it almost, you think it's going to be unapproachable and a little bit, you know, distant and maybe a little old school, which couldn't be more opposite to what it is. It is such an emotional, passionate, human organization and company and brand led by people who are just regular people that you can very much have amazing, honest conversations with.

21:58There's no distance. I mean, I keep on explaining to people, when I look outside my window, the window of my office, I see cows. There's cows in fields. I mean, we're not in glamorous capital of the world, or we're still in the same building that the founders... In 1875, right? 1875. So it's incredible. Who would have thought? And yet it is. It's not even luxury. It's high luxury but not it's not taking itself seriously in the sense that serious watchmaking yes but not above above others and that's what i really like and surprised but so positively surprised by that definitely from first week i was like okay this is a good fit this this makes sense to me to be here also just because i don't like the bs of you know i don't like when people think too highly of themselves.

22:49High ego. Yeah. Yeah. There's none of that there. So very pleasantly surprised. How about you as a leader? What's an insight? Oh, I listen. I'm very curious and open-minded. So I make decisions, but I try to take it all into account and to listen to the voices in the room. I'm not big on hierarchy, so I care most about what's in people's heads. And so I just need to know. I love that. I want people to be in the room and I want to be able to hear no matter what the job is just to make better decisions i find that by myself i've rarely made any call or decision on my own like i've never written a strategy just on my own i need i need uh the community and the the collective of my teams i'm only as good as my team anyway so it's a strength we don't listen enough

23:42everyone seems to be chasing the next big thing the fastest answer the quickest win but great cmos believe the real power isn't in the speed it's in stepping back to see the bigger picture that's why everything deloitte does in their cmo program from their industry-leading capabilities to their connected network of cmos is designed to help you zoom out and gain fresh perspective Deloitte will help you see the bigger picture together. Learn more about the CMO program at cmo.deloitte.com.

24:16Now, career paths are always so interesting, right? We talk about those a lot on the show. You have three different career paths. I'd like you to reflect a bit on a decision you've made on your career path that you look back on and say, that was courageous. Maybe it worked. Maybe it didn't. Maybe it was for you. Maybe it was for not. But I think there's so much to learn by going back. And I mean, one I made was I left the biggest advertising marketing company in the world to start my own thing. So I went from 7 ,000 people,$8 billion budget to one assistant in a small office from Friday to Monday.

24:51And I loved it. So, but everyone said, are you crazy? So for you all, what's a decision like that that was like, wow. I mean, I think now I've made two. Like the one is leaving Nike was the biggest one. Yeah. Because when you're comfortable, still being challenged, but comfortable, you know, the company, you know, the culture, you know, the space. But I felt like I wasn't a well-rounded enough marketer at that point. And I wanted to learn something else and I couldn't do it internally anymore. So leaving was, it's scary. I mean, financial stability, it's a bit different today, but it was going really well when I left.