Jenny Nelson (Audacy) | Audio’s Power to Move, Connect, and Grow Brands

0:00Before we dive into today's episode, we would very much appreciate a moment from you to make sure you're subscribed to the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Spotify, Spotify, or wherever you listen. along with optioning to auto-download the episodes. It really is the best way to never miss an episode along with supporting the show and the amazing team that helps me bring it to you. And while you're there, leave us a rating or review. It only takes a minute and helps more people find the show and helps us learn. And of course, share this episode with a friend or colleague who might enjoy it. We wouldn't be here six years later and still going so strong without you all, our community.

0:36So thank you for being part of it Now, on to the show. What if the smartest marketing play is not to move forward, but to zoom out? Deloitte believes the most powerful move a CMO can make is to look beyond the next step and see the broader perspective. That's what the Deloitte CMO program is for, a place to gain fresh perspective and connect with leaders who've stood where you stand. Together, Deloitte will help you see the bigger picture so your next move isn't just fast, but right. Learn more about the CMO program at cmo.deloitte.com. So the first brand you remember making an impact on you as a young girl.

1:12I think the first moment that I knew that advertising worked was I was like seven or eight. I was in the grocery store. My mom was like, go get some bread. And so I ran to the bread aisle and I came back with English muffins, Thomas's English muffins. And my mom said, why did you get English muffins? And I said, because of the nooks and crannies. Hi, I'm Jim Stengel. I've helped hundreds of major brands discover and activate their purpose. Because when a brand's purpose is clear, compelling, and authentic, profit naturally follows. Each week, I welcome the CMOs, the chief marketing officers of your favorite brands, to speak to how their job is so much more than marketing.

1:52These leaders share their inspiration and challenges, along with how they try to build a full, healthy, and happy life in and out of the office. And it's that energy that reaches everyone they touch. And we're glad you're here to feel that energy and to learn from these remarkable leaders. So here we go. Audio has always had a special kind of magic, the ability to connect, to move, and to build trust in a way that few mediums can. I have felt that magic over the last seven years as this podcast, the CMO podcast, has inspired thousands of people through the stories and lessons from our incredible CMO guests.

2:26And my guest today has built her entire career creating the magic and harnessing the power of audio. Jenny Nelson is the Chief Marketing Officer of Odyssey, one of the country's leading multi-platform audio content and entertainment companies. Over her 22 years in the industry, Jenny has become one of the foremost experts on how sound drives emotion, performance, and brand growth. Jenny started her career on the agency side at BBDO, then made the bold leap into the audio world as a young account executive at Susquehanna Radio. Since joining Odyssey in 2008, then called Entercom, she has played an instrumental role in shaping the company's evolution from a traditional broadcaster to a full-scale, digital-first audio powerhouse.

3:08Today, she leads Odyssey's brand strategy, creative research, and communications, along with sales marketing and enablement for both local and national teams. We'll talk all about that. So here's my in-person conversation with Jenny Nelson, recorded live at the ANA Masters of Marketing in Orlando, powered by TransUnion. Here we go. Well, Jenny, welcome to the CMO Podcast. Thank you so much. It's great to be here. I am super looking forward to this. You're one of the world's experts in audio and podcast. That is a little... You are. I'm really glad to be here, so thanks. Well, I want you to give us advice on how to make this episode extra special from all your knowledge on what makes for great shows.

3:46I think that it's all about just having a great conversation. And a great guest. And a great host. Thank you. Thank you. So what about this show? I mean, what's your advice on helping us make the show ever better for our audience? And, you know, it's a broad audience, but obviously it's a lot of marketers, a lot of CMOs, a lot of aspiring CMOs. So what's your advice on making the show better and better? We're always looking to improve. I think that one of the things that's been really interesting about being here at the ANAs, and I was sitting in on the CMO Summit the last couple of days, and there really seems to be a need to understand the B2B, B2C connection.

4:25And so many conversations with my peers, with, you know, I attended the B2B breakout group and we all got in conversations about how it's not just B2B or B2C anymore. It's about how do you connect them so that your brand is really talking to everybody in the same authentic way. And I think that the more that we can sort of bridge the gap between our consumer efforts and our business to business efforts, I think that it's like cracking a code. Yeah, it's the same brand, right? Yeah, right. Exactly. Has to have the same voice. Exactly. You know, we're in this at Odyssey. We're in a really interesting situation because we've got a business to business brand, which is the Odyssey umbrella.

5:05But we have some of the most iconic local brands, whether it be, you know, 1010 Wins or I live in San Francisco. So Alice, K-Rock. And then we have these amazing podcasts and they all have their own brand identities. And we're really working to understand how to use that Odyssey name, but also promote the individual brands because they are iconic in the communities that they serve. Same challenge Unilever has, Procter & Gamble has, how to use the corporate brand and individual brands. NFL. Nobody's wearing an NFL t-shirt, but you're walking around in your 49ers t-shirt. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Very good.

5:39So let's stay with us for a minute. I mean, what do you think are the characteristics of shows that break through? I know we said good hosts, good guests, but what else? I think that the best content out there right now is all about authentic storytelling. And I think whether it's your morning radio show that you're listening to on the drive to work or the podcast that you're listening to when you're working out or, you know, what you're listening to on your smart speaker when you're cooking dinner. We're captivated by storytelling and really feeling like you want to learn more about the story, that you want that authentic human connection.

6:17And I think that that's what really breaks through today. I mean, I think it's what's always broken through. So what are some of your favorite shows? So right now, and I'm really excited because we're going to have them on stage tonight, but I've been listening to The Moth. and I had the opportunity to sit down with the tellers last night and I'm so excited to like have them bring their stories to life. I haven't heard any of them. I tried to sit in yesterday on the rehearsal and they were like, you can't. So I sat outside, but that sort of storytelling is amazing because it's, it's real. It's human.

6:49It's about, you know, sometimes there's a message in it. Sometimes it's just great stories that, that make you think, that make you cry, that make you laugh. And The Moth is one that I just, I like, I can't stop listening. For our listeners who don't know it, it's a different model, right? Yeah, it is. Say more about it. So The Moth is storytellers that perform all over the country. Live events generally have three people and a host who sort of weaves the story through. And there's a podcast version that we have the opportunity to tie partners into, but it's just amazing stories told by real people.

7:23Yeah. So for the people out there who are working in brand building and marketing, Are there any shows that you recommend, that you like, that you find helpful in your daily work? You know, that's a great question. You know, as I think about what I'm listening to, reading, watching, some of the most important voices I think are my peers. And yesterday I was in the CMO council and had an opportunity to sit down with a group and just brainstorm around ideas. And one of the, they had us do an icebreaker and the icebreaker was, what are the brands that are inspiring you today from a B2B perspective?

8:02And it was really interesting. People said IBM, they said Adobe, HubSpot, all of these different brands. And I think that that thought leadership that those brands are sending to me on a daily basis is really like some of the most powerful stuff because it's case studies about what our peers are doing that are driving success. I've been listening to Acquired, which, you know, has been around a while, but it's just such a different show. It's so long. But now I look forward to like, oh, I have a four hour flight. Right. Or I'm driving eight hours. Right. And this will just make the time fly. Well, it's interesting that you say that because like I have three kids and they tend to do things a little bit more snackable.

8:39Right. Like 10, 15 minutes in and out. And I fly a lot. And so same. I like listening to the longer content because I feel like it gets deeper. Yeah. Yeah. And the time goes fast. Yeah. So where do you think this whole media is going? I mean, you would know better than most, you know, so many podcasts have moved to YouTube. So where do you think audio and podcasts and in general are going? Audio has always evolved, right? Like the way that what we're doing at Odyssey is really looking at how can we get our content in all the ways that people are consuming it. And I think about the way that I consume media today, and it's totally different than it was even two years ago.

9:21I look at the way that my kids consume, and I walked into my son's room. He's 17, and he was playing a video game. He had his homework in front of him, and he was watching something on his phone. And I said, what are you doing? And he said, I'm listening to a podcast. I didn't say I'm watching a podcast. He said, I'm listening to a podcast. And that's really telling about where we're going as fans. We're listening wherever. We're watching wherever. We're consuming content in the ways that are convenient for us in the moment. And I think that that's really exciting. I mean, when I walked in, you asked me if I've ever recorded a podcast like this.

9:57And I've been on podcasts, but I've never been on a video podcast. And that's just the way that the media ecosphere is evolving is so fast and it's so exciting. And I think it's going to continue to evolve and be revolutionary in the way that people are consuming media. But won't change is the stories. The stories. Connection. The authenticity. The connection that, I mean, we say audience, but it's really about fans, right? It's connecting fans to content that they love and desire and want more of. And that's really special. Now, you have a great and widely used quote, and I'm going to read it.

10:33Audio is one of the most powerful tools in a marketer's toolbox. It reaches locally, builds trust, and drives performance. So say more about that. Well, I think that people see and feel the connections that they have with their podcast host or their radio talent deeply. You know, I remember driving to school and listening to the radio with my mom and my sister, and the radio show host in the morning in Los Angeles would be talking about about something, and then we'd chat about it. And then you'd talk about it later in the day, and you felt like you were part of the conversation. And I think that that trust permeates to brands, and it's a way that advertisers and brands can deeply connect with fans.

11:28Everyone seems to be chasing the next big thing, the fastest answer, the quickest win. But great CMOs believe the real power isn't in the speed, it's in stepping back to see the bigger picture. That's why everything Deloitte does in their CMO program, from their industry-leading capabilities to their connected network of CMOs, is designed to help you zoom out and gain fresh perspective. Deloitte will help you see the bigger picture together. Learn more about the CMO program at cmo.deloitte.com.

12:02So we talked a minute about the great question, what brands do admire, which ones are inspiring. It was an icebreaker at the A &A here yesterday. When you think about audio, which brands do you think, or categories, do you think really get it or doing interesting things, take advantage of the potential of it? Such a great question. And, you know, I think that audio creative has the ability to be so powerful because it's, you know, using the imagination, you're able to really tell stories. And so, you know, when I think about some of the brands that I think use audio really well, I think about Coca-Cola had a radio ad that I remember from when I was a kid and it was the sound of the can opening.

12:47And it was like, and then you heard it and you heard it being poured over ice and it brought like you could see in your mind what was happening. And I think that that using sound to create imagery is really, really valuable. When I was a brand manager, this goes way back, but I was thinking about this and preparing for the show. There was a company called Local Marketing Corporation and Gray eventually bought it. But it was an entrepreneur in Cincinnati, actually. And that's where I was based since P &G was based there. And I was brand manager of Jeff Peanutbutter. And they had a proposition where they said, tell us your strategy, your business and marketing challenge and strategy, and we will go around to radio stations around the country and share that with them, get their ideas about a creative activation, and we'll figure out the compensation.

13:38So I thought, what a nice idea. So we hired them. I gave them what we're trying to do. And they went out to, I don't know, maybe 40 radio stations. And they did the craziest, most fun, most engaging things. And our business grew. Right. Because it fit the audience, right? Because they were doing things that were staying true to the fans. And it was fun and it leveraged the creativity of the radio station staff. Without a doubt. Without a doubt. And twice a year, we put out the state of audio and we talk about measurement or trends. This one is all about creators. And we talked to a whole bunch of creators, both multi-platform creators.

14:13And one of the things that they said is, you know, what are best practices that advertisers brand should put in place when working with you? And the number one thing that came back is let us do our thing. Like, let us tell the story. Don't give me a script. Give me bullet points so that I can tell the story in my way because it's going to connect more than than anything else. I mean, I feel like that when I listen to podcast ads, when I listen to radio ads, when I listen to endorsements, when I listen to audio in general. You can tell when the creator is connected to the brand. What else did you learn in that report that you just released?

14:48You know, we focus on a lot of different things, but I think that it's all about authenticity. It's about reaching consumers where they are with voices that are brand fit. And I think that that's really important. It's the best brand and fan connection is when you've got a brand that is really tied to the to the content. And I think that that makes a difference when there's you know, when they're like minded and that, you know, whether it be a new up and coming creator or somebody with a huge presence on social media and the audio world. There's a lot of voices out there that can represent brands and really authentic and real ways.

15:28I teach a program at Cannes every year with CMOs. We have a class of about 60 aspiring CMOs or CMOs. We brought YouTube and creators into the classroom last year. It was the best session. What did you learn? Everything you're saying. I mean, it's really about just talk to them about what you're trying to do, ensure that they have conviction and they're interested in it, and then let them go. So we're working on a campaign around a movie release and we sent out to the talent that's participating in this a sneak peek. And I'm on this email chain and this morning when I was checking the email to hear the feedback of all of these, the talent, the creators who are now going to be creating their ads out of this.

16:14They felt like they were really special because they saw something that nobody else has seen yet. And involving them in the process makes a huge difference in the way that it translates to results, I think, for the client. Yeah, yeah. The other thing I learned is don't call them influencers. Well, it's so interesting because, you know, talent, influencer, creator, it's, you know, at the end of the day, these are trusted friends. Like, there's so much change. The creator economy is growing so fast. And it's like, how do you leverage it? How do you harness it for your brand? How do you make it work?

16:48And not make it feel like, you know, this is just not real. What's your strategy on creators with Odyssey? And we talk about this in the creator effect is, you know, we think that we have the original creators. You know, radio is a lot of the original creators, the storytellers that you listen to when you were driving to school. And now we've amplified that through podcasting. We've got some, you know, big name podcasts. But we also have the Odyssey Creator Lab, which is a way for new podcasters to come. And, you know, we're giving them an opportunity to get into the podcast space and to tell their stories.

17:24And so we look at, you know, that there is an opportunity to help audio grow by putting more real voices and human voices out there. Well, we're here at the A &A in Orlando. Do you come here every year? Is this my first year? Your first year? This is my first year. Oh, my. Yeah. Last year, Odyssey had a big presence and I saw all the pictures and it was really exciting and to see it, but it's even more exciting to be here in person. So what's your impression so far? The first two days I was at the CMO Summit and it was fascinating. I've met so many people. We actually went on Monday night and had dinner at Universal.

17:59So I also got to go on the Hulk ride with a couple other CMOs, which was really fun. After dinner. Here's the best part. So we finished dinner and somebody said, should we go on the Hulk ride? And we were like, of course, it's upside down. We just finished dinner. Like, are we going to, is it going to be okay? It was so fun. We sat in the front row, then we sat in the back row. It was amazing. Any famous brand you were with? Yeah, with a lot of people. It was, it was great. I have a great picture with a group from UNICEF and Visa and Aflac. We all rode in the front row together. So, yeah, it's been really fun.

18:37But I feel like the brands here are so impressive and it's so exciting to see what they're doing. I had an opportunity to meet the CMO of Stellantis and that's been really... Interesting company now. Yeah, interesting company. And my background is actually, I worked it on the agency side on the Dodge account a lifetime ago, but it was really fun to sort of hear what they're doing now and to compare that to what we were doing 25 years ago. But yeah, it's been amazing. And to hear the challenges that some of these brands are facing and the way that they're turning them into opportunities and to learn from the group of people here has been amazing.

19:11Where do you feel the zeitgeist is this year? Do you think people are confident? Do you think they're tentative? I think that it's an interesting time. And I think that there's more optimism than I was expecting. And that was exciting to me. to sit yesterday in one of the sessions and to hear all of the things that are happening so quickly with measurement. And, you know, the conversations around measurement have been really interesting. And some of the things that we face and that other brands in the room we're facing, we're all in the same place and we're moving. And I think that as an industry, we're sort of moving in the right way together.

19:49And that was one of the big learnings, I think, for me, is that there's a lot of optimism, but even more than that, there's an opportunity for us to come together as brands, marketers, CMOs, and help define where we're going as an industry. And that's exciting. So beyond the Hulk ride, are there any other people or conversations you've had so far here, which like stick out for you, stand out for you? I think that the conversations around B2B have been really interesting. And I did go to the breakout session. So we had a lot of time to talk as a table, to talk as a group. And these were all B2B marketers.

20:30B2B marketers. And I'm a B2B marketer, but I'm also a B2C marketer. And I think leaving that room, I think we all felt like we're a little bit of both, but there's some people that are are hyper-focused on B2B. And to hear how they're using thought leadership and insights to help propel their brand are things that I think we can continue to learn a lot from. There were some really exciting conversations as part of that group. Yeah. That's a core mission of this meeting, really. You know, we're not alone. Everyone's struggling with a lot of the same issues, getting people together, sharing stories, sharing cases.

21:06I mean, the main stage here is a series of case studies, and they're really interesting. Well, that was one thing that we keep hearing that over and over again. Like, as I've talked to people from the ANA, the number one thing everyone is asking for is case studies and tactics. Like, tell us how you did it. Not just what the results were, but what did you do to drive those outcomes? And I think that's one of the things that the ANA is really good at. But just having the opportunity to brainstorm with people has been great because you can hear what worked for them and what didn't work for them.

21:35I mean, I'm sure you get to hear this all the time and hear real life case studies about what's working for brands. And that's, it's meaningful. Endlessly interesting. You know, really every case is, and things change, right? So now you're a strategic partner of the ANA, right? And along with Amazon ads and TikTok and meta, et cetera, et cetera. And you're on stage tonight and that's a big stage. I mean, there's like a couple of thousand people in the audience. So what's your message tonight? What are you saying? What are you, how are you handling that? I think that our message is going to be around storytelling.

22:05We're going to have them off on stage tonight. And as we introduce them, it's really about the power of storytelling and how Odyssey and audio are bringing great stories to life and creating conversations that can drive meaningful impact for brands.

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23:34I want to talk about your role, right? You've been at this company a long time. Long time. But you've been CMO for about six months, so relatively new. And about the same time a new CEO came in, right, as part of restructuring. Lots of other new leaders came into the company. So I've been in that situation a couple times in my career. It's exciting because it's a chance to reimagine yourself, the company, the team, and how you work. So could you talk a bit about this time in your career? Relatively new in role with a new team. So talk about how you're coming together. What are you learning? How are you gelling?

24:11What's it like as you're reimagining this company, I'm sure? We are. We are. And, you know, we do have a lot of new faces, but we also have a lot of people that have been with Odyssey for a long time. So I feel like we've got some new leadership, but I'm also surrounded by people who I've worked with for a long time. And I've been with Odyssey for about 18 years. I started with Intercom. I've held a lot of different roles in the organization. The company has changed so significantly over the past 18 years. But because I've been here for so long and because I've had a lot of different roles, I have had the opportunity to work with a lot of different departments and a lot of different people.