Linda Boff, David Lubars and Rishad Tobaccowala | The Advertising Hall of Fame Class of 2025 Inductees

26:17Right. So at a particular stage, we got to know each other because she wanted me to talk to her team when she was at Viacom and other places. And that's how we sort of were connected. So I've known her both from pre-META, META, and now post-META. And what's interesting is in addition to us knowing each other, there were often times when we were at war with each other. and there was a particular time when we had to have mediation between the two of us so Cheryl and Maurice made us get together in a soho house here and that was primarily because there was that was around Cambridge Analytica oh yeah where my whole stuff is what what is this and I was the only person on record criticizing Facebook at that time and so she went crazy because she thought it was personal because I said, this company has lost its soul, right?

27:15Which was kind of interesting. So as I remind people, relationships have these ups and downs, even great relationships. But what was common to us is we kept, we were 100 % honest with each other. And I said, this is not about you, this is about your company, right? And I remember even sitting at Sohouse and I said, my recommendation to you is at some stage you should leave. This company is beneath you. Okay, which is kind of interesting. Literally. This is, I remember, and she looked at me. I said, I'm telling you, you cannot rectify this company. You have to leave, which is kind of interesting.

27:48And then what also happened is that one day, suddenly, I see on Facebook that she's leaving. But there's no Zuckerberg thing. There's nothing. It's just that she's saying, I'm leaving. So I decided to put something on, saying, I'm surprised that Zuckerberg isn't putting out a press release, saying this was the lady who took all the slings and arrows. This was the lady, right? Which she really appreciated. So I went the exact opposite. And so that was part of it, which is I'd also remind people that great relationships tend to also have times of great emotional drama, if that makes sense. But we trusted each other and we liked each other, but we sometimes, I was representing clients who I thought were being taken for a ride.

28:34and she was representing her company. And I always remind people that when you are actually in disagreement with people, try not to make it about the person, try to make it about the thing or at the worst, make it about the firm that they work from. The reason she wrote the letter, in addition to the fact that she's very legendary, is she was the person who would call me all the time and says, I want to nominate you. Why aren't you saying yes? And I kept saying, there are people who need to go ahead of me. There was one. And the other was, I don't think I belong here. And then one particular stage, she said, I don't care.

29:10I'm going to do it unless you say no. And that's how it started.

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29:53so this nomination process which takes a long time and very involved you're all pretty experienced people did you learn anything about yourself going through that was there any aha or revelation or surprise because it's a lot of attention on you right that's kind of a weird because we spend our life having attention on others that's kind of a weird feeling i like to think of myself as kind of a shallow superficial glib person i don't do a A lot of self analysis. Just laughing at David. Not the first time. Not the first time. So well said, Jim. I mean, our careers are kind of spent promoting a service or a product, not ourselves.

30:31So it is a somewhat uncomfortable for me, not for David, obviously, process to ask people or to seek recommendations. And, you know, it's, you feel a little bit, or I felt a little bit like, as Rashad said, why me? Why do I deserve this? Yet, when I got the phone call and what happened, I don't know if this happens every year, was not only did I get a phone call the night of the nomination selection, but it was a video call. eight people who I knew really well from the committee giving me the good news. And I was so overwhelmed and so joyful that it stopped being about, oh gosh, it shouldn't be me.

31:16And it started being about a celebration. And I think that has been true for the months since. So what started with a little bit of like wearing a sweater that was too tight, I just decided to embrace it and embrace the people who helped me get there. Great attitude about any recognition, actually. Rashad, how about yourself? I think the big difference or the big thing is when you spend a lot of time as the three of us have, which is decades. So we are not aged or old. We are seasoned. But as you become seasoned. Not old, retro. Retro. Retro. Right. He's a writer. Right. So we're retro. But you oddly forget all the people you've met along your career.

32:01Okay. Not because you forget them because it's people, but you don't realize that you were in a room for 15 minutes and you had an impact on somebody because you didn't even know they were in the room, if that makes sense. And hearing from them was, I think, one of the very interesting perspectives, which is a key thing I leave people saying is like, try to make sure when you leave a room, you leave people feeling better. Even if you tell them stuff they don't want to hear. And that was the big learning that I got from this. Did you read all your letters? Oh, yeah. Humbling. Well, I did as well.

32:36And I want to talk about that a bit. I read all your letters and I tried to distill for myself the special gift each of you have. So I'm going to try that out on you and get your reaction to it and welcome the whole group to chime in on that. So you had to write 500 words. I just asked you to summarize it in 20. I'm going to do it in two or three words. And I'm going to use, Rashad, I'm going to start with you. And it's something your mother said about you having a heart of gold. And I think that everything permeates from that. Yeah. So what I basically believe is since I worked for a French company and I don't know French, the only thing I did was I tried to find one French philosopher.

33:16It was a line I could use. So when I was in a meeting, I could drop it. So it felt very French, if that makes sense. And that line is actually from Blaise Pascal. and he basically said, we choose with our hearts and then we use numbers to justify what we just did in French. And I began to realize that even in the world of marketing and branding, and I'm bringing it into our industry, we all, even today, will talk about all this math, and I'm an advanced math major, right? And data and a whole bunch of stuff. But I ask a very simple question. I said, how many of you here are wearing a watch? And many people do.

33:56So I said, why? Because your phone has a better watch. How many people drive a car in a city? Why? Uber is a better option. Or if you have a car, anything above Toyota, Camry is not worth anything. So if you actually think about it, the entire marketing and brand building business is about provenance, craft, storytelling, and emotion. And we keep thinking it's the other thing, right? And so that has been like a cross where I've begun to realize is you connect with people on a emotional basis, and then you build all the rational around it. So that's the reason. Why did your mother use those words that you have a heart of gold?

34:35I think because primarily I used to be a very good student and I was on the top of every class. Everybody said, look, he's really, really smart. And she would basically say, uh-uh, he's smart, but really it's this. That was the key. So Linda, I think yours is this just uncanny ability to see abundance in possibilities in agencies, in people, in brands. We certainly felt that last night. So wouldn't we all love to have that? So I'd like to talk a bit about how you developed that. Was it intentional? Was it just part of who you are? Is it a role model you had growing up? So I talked about this a little bit last night, which is the gift of saying yes.

35:24Gift of possibility is another way to say it. I have gone through life as a glass more than half full person. I do love possibility. But I think, Jim, more than possibility, I love people. And I think I've had the opportunity gift to meet the most extraordinary people. And when you are fortunate enough to be on the brown side, as you and I both were for many, many years, that affords you the opportunity to sit across the table from just about anybody. And I tried to use that opportunity for good, not for charity, you know, public company, but to meet extraordinary people. Two of them are sitting here, David and Rashad, but a lot of folks who were much earlier in their careers.

36:15And I think I learned so much of that from Beth Comstock, dear friend, mentor, somebody who we all love. previous CMO of GE and many other things. Yeah. Yeah. Who was always open. And I think she encouraged that side of me as well. And I believe together, and then after Beth left, I think of myself as an explorer, but an explorer of people. And it doesn't really get much better than that. And to have the opportunity, the checkbook, the brand to be able to take bets on people. Wow. It's extraordinary. David, I'm going to use a word that was, I don't know who used it in one of your letters, but I love it.

37:00And it's this ability to reveal true magic in brands and people and organizations. And you've done that as you've gotten really senior, which is more nuanced and layered and complex. So I'd like you to talk about, for our listeners who would like to be able to find the magic in a person, a brand, an organization, a business, how do you do it? And don't just tell me it's intuitive. I want to understand sort of like an end to your head and into how you work. How do you do that? So I guess I believe all great brands have magic. There's a magic to them. That's what makes them great. But for whatever reasons, the magic is not always revealed or brought forth.

37:43So I always felt it was our job not to just make creative, but to dig in there and mine for that magic and pull that thing out. It's not just creative. It's strategy people. It's the whole team around. Circle it and get in it. When you extract that magic and reveal it to the world, not only are you driving to success, but you're also putting effervescent, evergreen, fresh air out there into the culture instead of pollution. It's a bigger thing than just... And then people love your brand, and then it helps money circulate, and you're helping economies. So it's a really cool thing to do. And it starts with creativity, and that's the economic multiplier part.

38:23So that's really when it's fun. You don't always succeed at it, and that's why there were reviews. But we had a great new business record and a great client retention record because we did it more than we didn't. David, can I say something about you, if I could? You have an extraordinary ability to simplify things. I feel like so many people want to just keep adding. And you talk about reductionist nugget and et cetera, but you have this ability to see something and then just clear the clear the crap away and find that simple idea. It's extraordinary. Well, it's kind of you to say and at our best.

39:02Yeah, that's we did. I was glad we were at our best with you.

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40:09We have a lot of young listeners on the show. We have obviously CMOs that listen to it, but I think almost half of our listeners are under 40. And there's a lot outside the U.S. as well. So for the youth listening or the people coming up that are on the first half of their career versus us on the second half, to be kind. What sort of things do you want to share with them from what we're talking about today and how you're feeling about this process you just went through? I mean, this is a reductionist kind of thing, right? You have to get your career into a few moments. So anything you'd like to share that we haven't talked enough about in the last 45 minutes or so?

40:44I think BBDO today with my amazing successor, Chris Beresford Hill, is continuing some of the things we've talked about today. So if you're a young creative out there, I would pursue BBDO. I really think this next window is going to be really exciting with that company. Great feeling, isn't it, when you leave it that way? Rashad? You know, I would, the advice I'd give to sort of younger people is think of your career as 50 years and not this quarter or the bad meeting you had. And in a 50-year career, the only thing that will be around at the end will be other people. You know, I think, I find too often people are looking for the shortcut.

41:28Now, maybe this is after many decades, much older than your average listener. I think the shortcut is hard work and loving what you do. You know, every now and then, you know, lady luck shines on you and something happens and the pieces fall into place. But it's the work. It's the people you do the work with. It's giving them credit along the way, not taking credit. And I think you earn it. So hang in there and earn it. And for the very, very young among your listeners, there are a couple of lines that I would always tell our daughters, and then they eventually use them against me, which is the way they tend to.

42:07So one was, do not live in other people's minds, which is pay attention to what other people think, but don't do stuff just to impress other people because you're giving the remote control of your life to somebody else, which you don't want to do, which is number one. And the other one is, do not price yourself out of your dreams. which basically means there may be something you really want to do and you're really good at. Try very quickly to do that versus try to get something, which either pays you a lot of money or makes everybody else think you've got a fantastic job. Because in the end, what you do is really how you live.

42:45Yeah, that's great advice. Is there any question you have for each other that I haven't asked? I know you know each other well. You've been together a lot the last 24 hours. So one of the things I have for both of these folks, both of whom I've admired in different ways, because the good news is you're a leading creative. And the one thing that I could never, ever get to be was a creative. Is there some sort of magic that you do? And for you, for Linda, the question simply is, how has she managed to navigate being a client but not feeling like she's ever a client? I love that question. I can't really answer it.

43:22You know, like when you talk to these great songwriters, they say the really good ones just kind of came out of the air and they don't really know what happened. And the ones that are good because they were professional, like I'm going to give something good. But the inspired ones came. So I don't know how to answer that, but I know it happens. But it's probably because you're connecting dots in new ways, which you don't even know. I suppose so. I love your question. God, I think there are times I showed up as a client. We won't go there today. Let's leave those stories on the cutting room floor.

43:56But I think most of the time, when you're at your best, right, which is, you know, I think where your question is going. I saw us, see us, and all David, all of our agency partners, we worked with so many different people as partners. And I could never have done it on my own. I mean, there is not a world in which I would have been on that stage last night if I were sitting in a room with a whiteboard trying to dream it up. But to sit in a room with people like David Lubars and Laura Carrente and so many others was to not just be successful, but have a blast doing it. And maybe that made me a better client.

44:39It certainly made me enjoy the ride so much. I actually turn this around to you. Since you were there all of yesterday, what were some of your key takeaways? Besides the three of us, you had many other people who you watched. I mean, my Uber one was, we talked about this, the love in the room. Everyone talked about relationships and they kind of integrated their professional and their personal, their family and their colleagues. So I think there was a great sense of valuing and nurturing and trusting relationships and making that a focus in their life. So when you strip it all away, it kind of comes down to that.

45:19So to me, that was, that's why this night is so moving for me. I mean, every time I've been to one of these, I feel that in different ways. So I think that to me was the overwhelming one. I also thought that this idea of, I think we heard it in Susan's husband's remarks. We heard it from you guys as well. Champion the underdogs, the outsiders, you know, the people who don't get to speak as much. And I love that thought. And I think it keeps us fresh. It keeps us curious. So those were two of the things I took away. And you talked about the interconnectedness. It was just nice to be in that room and bounce around and see so many people that I haven't seen.

46:03I was sitting at the P &G table last night with Angela Pascolucci and Debbie Reiner, who I worked with for so many years. And we had so many friends and so many stories. And it was just so much fun. So much fun. And so, yeah, so that was kind of my takeaway. So I love the evening. So let's end with our hope for this industry as we look out. You know, we all talk about the power of it, the magic of it, the potential of it, the abundance. But what do you hope we're talking about a few years from now in this industry? So I hope the industry recognizes that we are actually entering in the renaissance of this industry, that all of this has been preparation.

46:42And I truly believe that every time there's an advance in technology, there's an advance in storytelling and brand building. And I remind people, you know, from the days when the three of us were young and fire was invented, in addition to basically sort of being able to cook our food and stay warm, we had nothing to do in the night, so we told each other stories. And then when the wheel got invented, we got to go to places. All stories actually begin with a stranger comes to town or someone goes on a journey. So every time there's an advance in technology, There's an advance in storytelling, which is at the heart of the business.

47:21Love that thought. I love that thought. I used a phrase last night that I'll use again here, which is this idea of being idea-led and consumer-informed, not the reverse. And I think we have this remarkable abundance of data. And if that is what triggers us, not the idea, I think we get it wrong. So let's use data. but let's be ideal lad i have a simple answer you know 25 years ago you had the beginning of the digital the digital revolution so now another one's about to start like you say a renaissance and uh i don't like listening to futurists because nobody could you predict four years ago what was going to happen now or six years ago but you can see some of these things about to start and uh so i think five years from now it's going to be like oh remember when and uh it's going to i think gets me really exciting and positive.

48:16So post Hall of Fame life, you're all active. So what are you most looking forward to in the next phase of your life? So I foolishly or otherwise decided to jump on the agency side. And 10 months ago or so, I became CEO of a mid-sized agency. I love it. It's hard. Hard makes you kind of get up every morning and say, okay, let's do it. I personally would love to take a note from the two gentlemen sitting here and think about how agency life going forward could have the generosity and collaboration that I think we experienced last night. I think it's there, but I think there's the opportunity to be better.

49:05Rashad? So to a great extent, I've had the privilege of going first versus these two. These folks retired, not retired, but ended career one or two after I did. I did this six years ago. And I think the big thing is I eventually figured out that there has to be another sort of purpose. And so mine came to be helping people see, think, and feel differently about how to grow themselves, their teams, and their business. and that became the central way of doing stuff. And then I try to make it sound like very strategic by saying I do one-to-many, which is like my podcast and my books and my sub stack.

49:44You know, one-to-some, which is a fancy way of saying speaking and one-to-one, which is a fancy way of saying advisory, but it all ladders up to the same thing. And, you know, we did talk about growth, but the whole idea is it's about people. And if you can get people to just see, think and feel differently, which is really at the heart of creativity, but I'm doing it in a different way. You're enjoying it? I love it so far and so far I've convinced people that I'm kind of good at doing it but that's, you know, someone says, how's it going? I often say, so far, so good. But that's what someone said when they jumped off the 100th floor building and someone asked them at floor 50.

50:22So I... You have a big award this summer coming up in June. I do, yeah. The big award in Cannes. It's funny how you go from young up and coming kid to decomposing corpse taking a victory lap that's what i'm in now but um i i would i retired at the end of last year so i'm already in my post hall of fame life and what i decided to do for this first year is a lot of challenging interesting things all having nothing to do with what i did so i'm i'm doing like intense street defense jujitsu it's really difficult and cool learning Spanish. And I think I'm going to become a volunteer fireman doing all these interesting things that have nothing to do with that.

51:03And then I think after the year's over, maybe I want to reactivate my brain doing something. I'm not sure what. Why those three activities? Seem cool. Seem cool. Okay. And I'll tell you one thing I'm not doing in my post Hall of Fame life. Everything I can to avoid the Midtown Tunnel. No airports before dawn. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good principle to live by and good night's sleep as much as we can. Well, thank you all. This has been a real gift. And thank you for coming in early after a late night, an emotional night, a powerful night. So thank you for coming to sharing. I knew this would be good and it went way better.

51:43It exceeded my expectations on many levels. Thank you, Jim. So thank you so much. Thank you for having us. Thanks, Jim. Wonderful conversation. That was my very special conversation with David, Linda and Rashad. Three takeaways from this one for your business brand in life. And the first one is just pause for a moment. These are three wildly successful people who just got this amazing lifetime achievement award. And as you could tell in this conversation, they are wonderful human beings. I just think you could listen to this episode again, and please share it with your teams. There's just so much to think about in what these three people shared in the last hour.

52:22Second takeaway, this idea that we're in a moment of renaissance. We have technology is changing again. It always will. But in this time of deep technological change, obviously, we're talking about AI now. There's the opportunity to tell new stories and storytelling is more important than ever. I love that point that David and Rashad made. And third takeaway, we talked about relationships a lot, the interconnectedness of us all in this industry and beyond. I think a takeaway from this one is relationships are everything. How you treat people is everything. How you value and respect people will make or break your career.

52:59These three people think a lot about relationships and it has got them to this very special place in their career and their life. And last takeaway. Gosh, congratulations to the three of my guests, David, Rashad, Linda. What a special career. What a special evening. and a big thank you for getting up early the morning after a very big night for them and the biggest night in advertising. That's it for this episode of the CMO podcast. If you found this helpful and entertaining, I would be so grateful if you could share our show with your friends and I would be super happy if you subscribe so you can be updated as we publish new episodes.

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