Natalia Ball (Mars) | A Better World for Pets

24:49How do you think about role of brand in that? Well, basically, our brands are our biggest assets, right? I don't believe in short-term growth without long-term brand building. And we always need to look at both and how we drive through promo short-term, but through proper brand building the long-term. My legacy that I want to leave behind here, and I know that my team believes in this, brands need to be much stronger when I leave than when I started. The capabilities of my team need to be touched more notch when I leave and the culture of the team needs to be about curiosity, needs to be about innovation, needs to be about not knowing everything, but actually wanting to learn everything.

25:34And so with those three things in mind, with brands being the first area of focus, the good thing is that because this was a strength for Mars, for me has been easier to like supercharge as I was saying, but I do believe in the company, people believe in the power of brands. So it's easier to make the case. How do you feel about your first year in the role? you sound like you've been busy and you're very clear in what's important and where you're focused. What do you think has gone exceptionally well? You've talked about a few things that have gone better than you thought. And is there anything that has been more difficult than maybe you had imagined?

26:05Yes. It's been an amazing first year. Honestly, this is my dream job. I'm so happy to have this job right now. I think it's the right moment as well for me to be in this job. And I feel very privileged. It was crazy. As I said, we didn't have a CMO before, so there was a lot of work to be done. I feel more established now. But in this time, I'm extremely proud of some of the capabilities that we're building because we have been able to make tremendous progress, like, for example, on growth model, on data-driven marketing, incredible progress. We were very good already in developed markets, but we have made tremendous progress in emerging markets in this area.

26:44But the one that I am probably most proud of is our brand experiences, how we're building brand experiences that are truly delighting pet parents how we have really accelerated our creative excellence agenda and how everyone right now in pet nutrition feels pride to work here and for the brands so those are things that have worked extremely well now what hasn't worked so well i would say getting to a long-term enterprise portfolio strategy has proven more challenge that I originally anticipated. And then being able to innovate from a product standpoint in an agile way has also proven to be more challenging than I anticipated.

27:24So we are really still working through how do we innovate faster? How do we put products out there? We have tremendous ideas that we love, but then we struggle in the implementation of those ideas. So that's a code that I still haven't cracked. So any suggestions are welcome. It's on my list of things I wanted to talk about with you and you brought it up already. In this journey you're on, you raise this question of enterprise portfolio strategy has been a tough one. It's a tough one for many companies, but you're obviously thinking about it. You're working it every day. What have you learned about charting a path and charting a strategy within this company to make sure your portfolio is maximizing your growth potential in this great growing category?

28:05I mean, the reason why it is hard, it is not hard to know what needs to be done in order to capitalize on trends to delight the consumer and to drive pros. But what is hard is resource allocation, right? We don't have all the money in the world to go pursue all the trends or to go pursue all the opportunities that we have. And then what has been hard is to get to those tradeoffs. What are we going to say yes to and we're going to fully resource and commit to? And what are we going to say no to, even though it hurts? Those choices take time. You have to manage stakeholders. People have different points of view.

28:43And that's why it's proven more challenging than I anticipated. Obviously, when you say no to something, you are basically saying no to someone who that's the only thing they want to drive. And so you want to make sure that you're painting a vision that they can be a part of and that they feel included, even though you're saying no to what is most important to them. And again, unfortunately, that takes time in such a large organization where you have different stakeholders. And so for me, that has been the learning. I'm still in the journey, as you said. I believe we have been able to make very tough decisions already or things that we're not going to pursue.

29:18And we know that in five years from now, four years from now, maybe new people will be here and they will say, why they didn't go for that? It was so obvious. So we know they may be questioning some of these decisions, but you have to decide what are going to be your big bets, where you will put your resources. And that's what we're in the process of doing now.

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30:50You mentioned a couple minutes ago the culture of brand building and creativity at Mars. and I get around, I go to award shows, I follow the industry. And Mars is a pretty regular at demonstrating creativity and creativity and growing businesses, doing things for the first time, getting great awards for it. And you're working to build on that strength in your current role. So could you talk about this culture of creativity that has been built at Mars over many, many, many years and you want to make it even stronger? You know, what have you learned about building a culture of creativity over time, which is very special?

31:28It is. Mars really believes in the powers of creativity. And that's why, yes, we have been out there in many of these award shows and our brands really try new things and take risks in general. Right. But now wait and see, because you will see it significantly more. Hopefully we will have a big year at Cannes this year. It's not the only one that matters, but it's the one that most people connect to in the industry. And the reason for that is because we have put a real program end-to-end on how do we power our creativity. And it starts with, again, capability building. I'm going to talk a lot about that because that's really the foundation for everything else.

32:11Give the tools to our people so that they can be their best. And so we have invested a lot in training, how to write great briefs. We partner with CANDS to do a masterclass with all of our marketeers on what great creativity looks like. We put in place a creative council with chief creative officers from all of our agencies around the world where they can bring their best ideas. So we're really focusing there, but also focusing on teaching people how to evaluate great creative, how to follow their gut, as well as how to fight the system. The system will always want to kill a big, bold idea because it's uncomfortable, because it's risky.

32:51So we're really teaching people to be bold, to not take no for an answer, to escalate, and to not accept dilution of great ideas. And there are many examples that I have seen since the Creative Council we had back in November, which was a fantastic success. Actually, our agencies really stepped up as well and presented wonderful ideas, pet parent centric ideas, which is what we want. And I decided to pursue many of these ideas and found a way to fund them as well, which is great. But then I have noticed some of these ideas diluting in the process because you get feedback from legal feedback from stakeholders.

33:27And that's what we're trying to avoid. We're trying to train people to stay strong and to find a way to have the right conversation, involve partners that are critical in this process earlier on so that those ideas can be as big as they can. And then last but not least in this journey, we have really brought along, for example, my CFO is new, enrolled. He's wonderful. The first thing I did with them was to share our ambition for creative excellence, to share all of the data that we had about how creative excellence drives profitability, how creative excellence builds stronger business, et cetera.

34:01And now he's fully behind this journey. So that's really helpful because you know, he's a partner. He's not questioning it. He's looking for ways to help drive this because he believes it's going to make us stronger. And so really has been a full journey of different elements, the talent as well, you know, make sure that we put the right talent in the right place. There are people that have passion for this. So we want to give them the opportunity to contribute and develop more in this area. So I'm really excited and you will see all the things that we're bringing. You sure are. Yeah. Well, how did you really conquer the fear of failure, right?

34:34We hear this a lot. And it's probably the whole system of what you just talked about because you're very, very upfront. The creativity is important and you need to do things. You need to have a culture that creates things that haven't been done before. But how have you dealt with that? For me, I talked earlier about curiosity and that is a very critical value for me and one that I try to instill in my organization. Curiosity is about feeling comfortable with not having the answer, feeling comfortable with not knowing it all, but actually wanting to go and find out more about it. And when you apply this to everything that you do, particularly in marketing, first of all, you will stay up to date with everything that's happening because you will always have questions.

35:14There is this new tool. There is this new agency. There is this new way of doing things. Let's find out more. But also, if you approach these challenges with a mindset of curiosity, what you're doing is let's learn what happens. we may fail but if we fail it's a learning i'm curious about what will happen if we do this i'm curious about what will work what won't work and so you don't take it as a big bet that if it doesn't pay is the end you take it as a way of learning something as a way of finding out something and obviously through this process we are keeping track very closely of kpis critical kpis that allows to build a stronger case for creativity moving forward.

35:56And this first year we're investing, but we are investing within a test and learn plan. But then once we prove that this actually works and improves in business results, then we can invest more. And that's the way we're approaching it here. It's funny. I just interviewed the Duolingo CMO yesterday and obviously a very, very growth oriented brand. And he talked about there, he called it grind and expand marketing formula. And it was about 70 % of the resources were on doing what we know works and doing it really well and continually improving it. And 30 % on ideas that they're not sure will work and that we have different expectations for them.

36:37And I said, well, how do you really do that? And he said something very similar to what you just said. He said, we go in with a hypothesis. We're curious about something. So there's always a hypothesis and then we try it and then we do a debrief. And if it didn't work, fine. We had a hypothesis. But it's not like some sort of wild free for all. It's very, very much about, you know, they understand the brand, which is a quirky brand. But here's a hypothesis that may or may not work. Let's try it if it doesn't work. Catalog the learning and move on. So very similar to your approach. And I am a big fan of the work that they're doing.

37:12They're really knocking it out of the park. Yeah, they are. they are. Natalia, we've had other Mars executives on our show from different parts of your business. We haven't had someone on from Pet Care and they've been fabulous interviews. I'm just curious, how much do you work across the company on things and how much do you not? Are there certain areas you work on together and certain ones you don't? Yeah, it's exactly like you described. We are as similar as possible and as different as needed. That's the approach that we take. So in certain areas, it makes a lot of sense to collaborate across Mars Snacking, Mars Food, Mars Pet Care.

37:46So we do. In other areas, there are very specific category cues, category learns that we have that we need to then cater to. So then we allow for those differentiations. And so, yes, we have certain capabilities we want to consistently build at Mars Inc. level. And then many of the capabilities I'm talking to you about may be more specific at Mars Pet Care level. And you said a few minutes ago that you're in your perfect job. What about this job is so perfect for you? You know, we all know when we're in a perfect job, right? I felt the same way when I was at P &G's CMO. But what is it about, describe the experience and why this is perfect for you?

38:23I would say it's two things. Number one, the blend of challenges that I deal with every day are completely different. So on the one hand, obviously, we're talking about brand experiences, brand building, creativity. I love that. The fact that I get to still work on those things. I'm really good at it and I love it. Innovation is another one. But at the same time, we are working on, for example, strategic revenue management, connected commerce, building sales capabilities how do we approach inside generations portfolio strategy so the breadth of challenges that i get to work on on any given day is super energizing for me the combination of different challenges working with the business on creating long-term growth plans where do we put our resources and working with that with the leadership team in general but then the second thing i would say is that I think I'm learning so much in this job.

39:17I love when I am in a job where I can add a lot of value to the business. So I know that I add value and I bring a lot, but I also get value from the business. And I feel here, I'm striking that perfect balance because every day I learn something new. And actually I capture some of those things in a special diary that I have. What did I learn today. And I am surprised of how much every day I'm able to capture there, either because I work with external partners on questions that I have, and I'm lucky to partner with consultancies, with agencies, with peers, and I get a lot of external inspiration that I really appreciate, or just working on the challenges that we have and we don't know how to crack is really energizing because you learn a new approach.

40:01So I think the combination of those two breaths of experiences as well as learning is what makes this my dream job. Okay. I want to flip to your career path. We began this interview talking about your career path and your P &G history. But as I was looking, I found something you wrote a few years ago about five mistakes that you learned from in your career. And I love these. They're just so human and so direct. And I want to read them and then I want to chat a bit about them with you. The first one is thinking that your work would speak for itself. Second, not investing time in building relationships with senior leaders, not raising my hand to be considered for a job, avoiding salary negotiations.

40:40The last one, losing yourself, which is an interesting one. So it's an amazing list. And I would like you to talk maybe a bit about which of those lessons did you find most profound and meaningful for you? I would say the last one is probably the biggest one of all, because again, this job is great, but also the reason why I'm able to do this job well is because I'm able to be myself. If I was not welcome, encouraged to be who I am fully authentically with the good things, the bad things and everything in between, I wouldn't be able to bring my best self to work every day. And there was a time where I was not able to do that.

41:22There was a time where I was in a job and I got feedback from my line manager on my style. You're too passionate. You make too many hand gestures. You need to be more poised. I always try to be super receptive to feedback. I don't take it personal. I really try to act on the feedback. And what happened was I started like really questioning every little movement that I was making, really trying to speak in a different voice, almost dressed differently to come across as more poised. And what I realized is that I was losing my module. Actually, my passion, my being loud, that's part of who I am. That's part of what makes me special.

42:02I really love the work. I bring all of me to the work. And if that's something that is not going to work with someone, then that's not the right line manager for me, or that's not the right business for me. So it took me a while to learn. So I tried it, actually. I tried it, and eventually I realized I was not going to perform like that. So I had the conversation with that line manager. And kudos to that person because that person then realized that that feedback was not helpful and that person apologized and said, oh, sorry, I shouldn't have given feedback about style. But it had been six months by the time that I had this conversation.

42:35So I lost six months of performance. And then since then, I've been a very strong advocate of being your authentic self and working particularly with female leaders who I think struggle a lot with these to find the right balance of being themselves and like excelling in senior positions, really working with them on helping them feel comfortable being themselves. The example you shared was very clear. And for our listeners who may feel they are in that same sort of situation, what are the early signals that you're losing yourself? I mean, you ended up having a discussion with someone and you were very articulate about it, But what are the early signs?

43:13I believe if you go to work and at the end of the day, you are extremely tired, but it's because you were trying to act in a way that doesn't feel natural to you, it means you start to lose yourself. The energy that it requires to act in a way that is not natural is actually tremendous. And so you will be exhausted at the end of the day. And that's a signal that you're trying to hard. You're trying to be who you're not. When you can be yourself, you gain energy from those interactions. So I think that for me is a little bit that signal. It's just the energy that it requires for you to act differently to what would be natural to you.

43:54Since you put this list out there, the five mistakes you've learned from, what's been the reaction from people? Oh, my God. I was really surprised by the strong reaction that Liz had. A lot of people that I have never met have reached out to me to talk about that list. one of the things they really appreciated was vulnerability. The fact that I, as a senior leader, am able to talk about mistakes and not only successes is really appealing to people because a lot of people struggle with these things. A lot of people have imposter syndrome. You know, they don't know how to approach a situation, but then they see me and they see, oh, how confident.

44:32She's great. I will never be her. But then when you share that you have struggled through these things and you are vulnerable with others, they feel more likely to open up. They feel heard. They feel not so lonely. So a lot of people have reached out to me to talk about how much this meant and also to have conversations. And also one of the ones that has been the biggest impact for people here is this idea of reaching out to senior leaders. A lot of people start the emails when they reach out to me to ask for a connection, people that I don't know saying, I read your five mistakes and you said the worst that can happen is that they say no.

45:05So I'm taking that invitation, reaching out to you. So I really try to always make time for those people. Which of these do you think you've built into a strength since acknowledging them as mistakes? I mean, all of them, or is there one that you would say has been an exceptional strength for you? I think the authenticity is my biggest strength. I would say this idea of being uniquely me, authentically me, the good and the bad is a strength. I think everybody who knows me will tell you she's super authentic. She's who she is. Everybody knows me. I'm super transparent. What you see is what you get.

45:37No hidden agendas. I put it all out there. And I think people appreciate it. So I would say that I was able to turn into a strength.

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46:48Let's move into the creative brief. And the first question is, you were quite a student back at university, number one in your class at university in Caracas. No wonder PNG snapped you up. So what was your dream back then as you were leaving school? with this great academic achievement? You know what? Things before I started university, my dream was to work for P &G. And I wanted to, I didn't know what I was going to do at P &G, but I wanted to work for P &G. And the reason for that was back in that time, P &G was the biggest company that we had in Caracas. But also they had this promo. When you were in school, if you collected all of the packages of P &G products, products.

47:30The school could win something. I don't remember exactly what it was. So in my house, we used to buy a lot of P &G products, and then I would bring all the packages to school. And so I was very connected to the company since I was in secondary school. And so I wanted to work for that company. I wanted to grow in that company. And I wanted to grow. I wanted to become a senior leader, but I didn't know in what. So back in that day, I had no clue that I was going to work in marketing. I actually studied systems engineering, which by the way, I never worked in that area. And by the first year studying system engineering, I knew that I was never going to work in that area, but I still finished the five-year degree just because I needed to get it done.

48:11But I knew it was going to be at P &G. Wow. That's a great story. Good for P &G, you know, being in the community as they were and they do, they still do, but there's just tremendous power in that. It's a great lesson for all companies. Now you've lived in many cities, which is your favorite? My favorite still is Caracas, which is my home city. I'm super connected to it and I feel that's the place I belong. And one day I would love to return. It's not happening in the short term because there are not a lot of opportunities for me, but maybe when I retire. And then my second favorite city would be London, which is where I'm living now because in London, everybody belongs.

48:48Everybody can feel at home no matter where they come from. Duolingo CMO lives in London too. So we'll have to get you two together. That would be great. Now, what's the first brand you remember making an impact on you as a young girl? I knew you were going to ask that, but I really struggled to think about which one I would answer to you. And I decided to go for Reebok because in the 80s, Reebok was big and it was fashionable. And I remember there were these shoes that were like these high top boots that were very, very trendy in the 80s and I wanted them so bad in electric blue. And I took a couple of months to convince my mom to buy them for me.

49:26And after she said yes, we actually couldn't find them anywhere. Turns out they didn't sell them in Venezuela. So then I have to go find out someone who was traveling to the US to actually buy them for me in the US. And when they finally come back after, I don't know, six months, I felt that I've arrived. I really felt like, oh, this is it. Now I'm the cool kid. And that's really a way in which I understood the power of a brand. The feeling I got just by wearing those shoes was amazing. So that a brand can do that really is impressive. That's quite a story about brand commitment. I remember I got the, remember the air pump Reeboks in the nineties?

50:04I mean, I was growing up, I was working at PNG at the time, but I love those. I got those for, you know, backyard basketball and all the kinds of stuff we do. You know, Reebok being a big brand for you. Is there any brand today having a big impact on you besides your own? Well, actually, Duolingo would be one, but just because I'm envious of some of the things that they're doing, for example, when they killed their mascot, I was like, oh my God, that's so bold. That's so daring. I hate them because I love them. So yes. Yeah. Yeah. No, they are. The way they use that mascot and the way they are tapped into culture and social media is sort of best in class.

50:41So I think connecting with him, I think you two would have a lot to share with each other. I'm sure. Now, what's the one campaign or initiative that you've done in your career that has been the most meaningful to you personally? Wow, that's a big question, Jim. So many campaigns. But you know what? Right now I have one that is so fresh in my mind and I am so proud of it that that's what I'm going to talk about. This is a campaign we have just launched on Pedigree in Brazil. And in Brazil, there is this type of dog that is a mutt and it's caramel in color. And you see them all around the streets in Brazil and it's called the Caramello.

51:21This dog is 90 % less likely to get adopted in shelters than breed dogs. So you see them all over Brazil. It's almost like a cultural icon of the country. And so with Pedigree, we realized this fact and we want every dog to have a loving home. That's something that Pedigree has stood for for many years. And so we came up with the social first campaign to make sure that Caramellos get the same love as breed dogs. So we started with a key influencer and she posted online that she tried to register her Caramello to a dog show and she was not allowed to because it was not a breed. And so Pedigree answered to this cry and said, don't worry, we got you.

52:05We are going to make sure that Caramellos are considered a breed. So we're going to create a kennel club. We're going to do DNA testing, actually the largest DNA testing ever done in Caramellos. and we are going to make sure that Caramelos get the place they deserve in Brazil. And so it has been tremendously successful. It's created national conversations. People are reaching out to us to actually make this happen and partner with us on this. And I am so proud because when we first saw this idea, we knew it was going to be big, but actually the team has put so much emphasis in really taking the idea to its full extent.

52:41And they have planned not only one lunch, but several lunches to maximize what this can mean for Caramelos, for Pedigree and for people of Brazil. So super excited about that. So on brand for Pedigree and another can winner, by the way, is my prediction. I'm sure that I'm betting on a big one on this one. Those stories like that are so moving. We were in Cuba recently and there were dogs that had like little medals on. And I asked someone what's going on. They said, these are dogs that no one owns. but the community knows that. So we put a metal on them so everyone knows to feed them. Oh, that's beautiful.

53:17I love that. Yeah. It was in Havana. It was just a beautiful and a lot of dogs around Havana. Okay. Who has been the most inspirational person in your life? Oh my God. So many people. It's really hard, but I would say, I would name two people. My mother, she was someone who was so full of life, so happy, so generous. She was surrounded by friends. She attracted people to her. And growing up with someone like that actually made me believe that everything is possible, made me believe that the world is a nice place and people are nice. And it was just beautiful to watch her. She's no longer with us now, but I couldn't have been luckier to have the mom that I did.

54:01And then I would say the second person would be my husband, just because he's such a believer in me. Whenever I have doubted myself, he's always said, no, you can do that and you can do so much more. He has actually pushed me to go farther than I thought I was going to go as well. And so, I mean, he sees me with eyes that I don't even see myself. And I really appreciate that. Did you meet him at P &G? No, not at all. I met him back home in Venezuela, but he's from Israel. And then we got together and moved to Geneva. Actually, our anniversary, 18 years, is this Friday. Oh, congratulations. What are you doing to celebrate?

54:35We are going to go out for dinner on Thursday because we don't have our daughter with us, but on Friday we do. So we're going to celebrate on Thursday. Beautiful. What did your mother think of your career going to P &G, et cetera? She was so proud of me. She would talk to everyone about what I was achieving and the things that I was doing. And she told me consistently these. My dad as well, by the way, and he always exaggerate what I do even more, which is embarrassing, but yes. That's what dads do. What was your mom's favorite P &G brand? I mean, that's a hard one, but I think she would say Pantene.

55:09She loved that brand. Yeah. Talia, thank you for this marvelous conversation. Happy National Pet Day. And thanks for all your wonderful stories. Glad we're reconnected from giving you an award many years ago. So it would be great to catch up with you in person one of these days. So let's try to do that. Yes, I would love that. I mean, I'll be at Cannes, so I surely will have a chance to see you there. Let's do it. Let's book a coffee or rosé or something like that. That would be awesome. That was my conversation with Natalia Ball. Three takeaways from this one for your business brand and life.

55:42The first one and a very powerful one. If you're a CMO or frankly, any senior leader, understand your growth model. Natalia talked about going through the data, putting a team against this. One of her first things she did as growth officer was what does it take to grow our business and grow our brands? And they now have a growth model that everyone was involved with and it's working to make the strong company even stronger. Second takeaway, the power of being in the perfect job for yourself. Natalia talked about meeting me many years ago as P &G's CMO and saying, I want that job. And she's never lost sight of that.

56:15And she talks about how happy she is in this current role because it is perfect for her personality, her strengths, and her curiosity. And third takeaway, don't lose yourself. It's kind of related to the second point I just made. But this idea of being yourself at work to being in a place where you can leverage your strengths, be yourself, bring everything to work. We talk about that concept a lot on the show. But this was an example of a woman who has made that learning explicit and ensures that she is always in a company and in a role where she is working to her full potential. And hey, bonus takeaway.

56:51It's National Pet Day. If you're a pet parent, and I know a lot of you are, give your dog some extra love. Give your dog an extra treat, and I hope it comes from the Mars Company. That's it for this episode of the CMO Podcast. If you found this helpful and entertaining, I would be so grateful if you could share our show with your friends. And I would be super happy if you subscribe so you can be updated as we publish new episodes. And if you really want to help, leave us a five-star rating and a positive review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen. The CMO Podcast is a Vive original production.

57:28Episodes of the CMO Podcast are produced by Vive. The views and opinions expressed by podcast speakers and guests are solely their own and do not reflect the opinions of our sponsors or its personnel, nor do our sponsors advocate or endorse any individuals or entities featured on the episodes.