Reclaiming Hope with Samantha Maltin (St. Jude) and George Carey (Human-ology)

23:38You can find it in a breakfast cereal. It's just a matter of what your emotional DNA is and whether that's aligned with the emotional ingredients of hope. So, you know, one of the examples that I, Jim, you have been talking a lot about recently that I think is a prime one is in the restaurant space, which is Chili's. You know, they have this brilliant thing going on right now where they've made it, making it very clear to us that for the amount of money you spend in the drive-thru at McDonald's, you can have this really wonderful experience in the Chili's where you're sitting down, there's a waitress, you have a beer and some nachos.

24:10You know, and that is like playbook of exactly what drives hope. Number one is this idea of like personal financial security. And number two is small everyday joys. That's what this is. So there's a restaurant brand which is doing this extremely well and certainly profiting appropriately from it. You know, on the other side, in the world of toys, we just mentioned Lego and Lego in the adult space, not the kids space. I think one of the most powerful aspects of Lego's huge success with adults is that they are bringing hope into people's lives. Because one of the emotional ingredients is this idea of escapism and close personal connections with a small circle of friends.

24:49As you all know, that's what Lego's Adults' Welcome is promoting right now. It's not about creativity. It's about, wouldn't it be nice to get a group of your friends together and maybe have a glass of wine with it and make these Lego floral arrangements? So again, it doesn't matter whether you're selling hamburgers or Legos. It just matters whether you understand this is what hope means. And this is the aspect within my brand that gives me permission to play there. And beyond that, the world's your oyster. And I'll just make one other sort of point about this, which is that based on my kind of perspective, and there may be some that I'm missing, I don't know any brand that staked out hope is their primary reason for being.

25:30Any of them. I mean, Samantha in her space and the nonprofit, they are owning hope. But I'm not aware of any brand squarely landing on hope as their brand essence or their brand mission or their brand vision. Another way of saying that is the single most powerful and rapidly rising human need, which is hope, represents emotional white space for the commercial world to begin to get into. You're so right, George, about the categories. One of the most hopeful campaigns I remember seeing is the detergent brand. vanish. And they did this campaign around living with autism and giving people hope. And it was beautiful and it connected on such a deep level and it was detergent.

26:11Jim Stengel:So let's stay on this line. I love that challenge, George, and we're going to talk about advice for CMOs in a minute, but is there any brand that we've talked about a few already, but any brand for you personally, the two of you, which you think is connecting in this area of hope that makes you think about taking an action, makes you think about your view of that brand. St. Jude's, of course, you live with it. But beyond that. Yeah. For me, my favorite brand in the hope space right now, I don't know if you guys have been reading about this thing called the tin can phone. Yeah, I have been. Yeah.

26:43Yeah. So for those of you who don't know, it's a landline. You got to plug it into your wall. It doesn't have a screen on it. that doesn't have any kind of texting feature, whatsoever, you got to pick it up and you got to dial a number and you have to have a list of, but I mean, to me, that's really hopeful that parents are saying, you know what? I have to have that. Because what it's saying is that I recognize that the kind of technology that my kids are being exposed to and in many cases expect to have is not good for them. And that I'm going to stamp it and make a change, which will give them a much better chance of staying out of the kinds of emotional challenges that some of these technologies have.

27:23So I think that there is incredible hope in watching parents respond so positively to the idea of a tin can phone, which is from the 1950s, but is incredibly relevant today. So that's my champion of hope right there. I am getting them for my children who are eight and nine. So I'll give you the other lens of it. You talked about how we would feel as adults. I'm looking at it through my children's eyes. and really anything through my children's eyes. I think they're at that age where there is not a broader awareness. They have eternal optimism, no matter what it is, whether it's the tin can phones and they have no idea what a landline is or was back in the day.

28:10They just see it as a way to talk to their friends and they think it's so fun, but really anything. They don't have fear. They don't have the same sense of fear or potential failure. They just have eternal optimism. And that is the most hopeful thing of all.

28:37Jim Stengel:Now, let's talk about leadership a bit and let's get into a little bit of therapy for CMOs, if you will. CMOs have internal organizations and external stakeholders, customers, partners that they work with to help bring the brand to life. So you two are into this more than most. If you were to have a good session, the two of you, with a working CMO of any company right now, what would your agenda be for them? Thinking about them with an internal audience and the external audience. And George, I know you and Samantha have been immersed and you talked about it a little bit a few minutes ago, the drivers of negative hope, if you will, and the restorers of hope.

29:19Jim Stengel:What sort of things would you counsel them to look at as they think about being a great, effective leader inside their company and outside their company? Yeah, I would start by counseling to really think about the ripple effect, the emotional ripple effect of their choices. When you have to confront an issue like price advances or influencer selection or the many different things that a CMO has to deal with, It may seem like you're working in a kind of a limited sphere of the kind of impact that's going to have on people. And of course, they're very aware and very eager to do the right thing. But you often don't realize the extent to which it cascades into a much more significant action that's going to impact the consumers on the end.

30:02So, again, we talked a little bit about price. I don't want to sort of beat a dead horse. But we are going to have to find a way of dealing with inflation and the cost of goods in a way which doesn't lead to pricing, which leads to hopelessness. Another area that I think, again, just as an example, and this is some of the work that we've done together with Samantha at St. Jude's, is on the tactics. You can be really thoughtful about things like influencer strategy. One of the things that Samantha and her team have had us doing at humanology is to help understand better, like what kinds of influencers and public figures are most aligned with their brand essence of hope.

30:41So it becomes not just a question of how popular is Taylor Swift versus Beyonce or one athlete versus another athlete, but what's the emotional DNA? What are the emotional connections that people make to these individuals? And in the case of hope, which of those different types of public figures are most hopeful? So you can be a lot more planful, both at a high level strategic level, but also at a tactical level when you begin to sort of factor in this human connection to hope.

31:07Jim Stengel:Samantha, how do you react to that question I asked George pontificated on a bit? I think we always have to be thinking about how to increase impact. So in this case, how do we magnify hope? And when I think about how that relates to us in general, we are a hospital here in Memphis, but we have a global model. And the single biggest factor of whether a child survives cancer is actually where they live. And we've been able to increase survival rates from 20 % to 80 % in the U.S. since the hospital opened, since 1962. But that is not enough because those statistics are much lower internationally.

31:54One in five children will not survive. And so when we think about how do we magnify our impact, how do we multiply the work that we're doing here? we are not just now focused on sharing research and protocols, but actually trying to get the medicines themselves into the hands of these medical institutions around the world. So we have a global initiative, a$200 million global initiative, to share these medicines through our partnerships, UNICEF and World Health Organization, and get into 50 countries by 2030. 30. We're well on our way now. But I think no matter what business you're in, no matter what brand you're stewarding, you have to think about how you scale your impact.

32:42How do we magnify hope?

32:43Jim Stengel:Has this immersion in hope that you both have been on, has it changed how you show up for your team and your families? It certainly has for me. And actually, it's been one of the things that gives me hope, I have to say. One of the things that I see my personal family struggle with is like, where do you find hope? It's becoming increasingly difficult to find that rejuvenating, liberating, invigorating feeling of, oh God, that's what hope feels like right now. And for me, it's just brought me closer to my family. It's brought me to the realization that if you want to feel hopeful, then try and get yourself invited to one of my kids' gatherings because you'll be surrounded by some of the most idealistic, right-minded, wonderful young people you could possibly imagine.

33:30So yeah, to me, it's a unifying bond, which is just bringing our family closer together on a personal level.

33:36Jim Stengel:How about as a team leader? You have a company, George, you work with clients. Has this changed how you show up for them? I think it just gives the kind of work we do at Humanology and the team. I have to say, Jim, you referenced George's thinking on this matter a little earlier. Frankly, there's a very wonderful and talented team at Humanology, which is, I have to give credit for this team. But I think for us, it gives us real belief and passion for the kind of work we're doing for brands. To me, there is a role for every brand to play in lifting up humanity. And you may think to yourself, gee, Campbell's Soup or YouTube.

34:16Yes. If you can understand again, the deeper emotional desires that we're most focused on serving right now in our lives. And to connect those with these brands, that gives us hope and passion and commitment, which is going well beyond doing simple insight work.

34:31Jim Stengel:Samantha, how about yourself? Any changes in how you're showing up? I think trust is the foundation for where hope can live. And when I think about the incredible team that we have here at LSAC and St. Jude and my marketing leadership, It is so incredible because of the trust that we have in each other. And that gives me hope. And we are helping people every day afford hope. And that is inspiring. And for my family, I think as I've been studying hope and working on this more, I have shifted my lens. I see things so differently now through my children's eyes that hope becomes optimism. and it's kind of incredible because I'm in a role where every day I am seeing miracles happen and tiny and great acts of hope here.

35:30And then I go home and as my children get older and now are eight and nine big kids. So I think through their eyes, everything is just hope and wonder.

35:41Jim Stengel:I mean, you talked about the generational difference in hope from your data and Samantha's kind of talking, you're both talking about your children. I mean, I suspect some of that is just the naivete, the experience in life, but maybe there's more. I've seen your data. There's an enormous difference in hope with teenagers and with adults, parents and non-parents. So what's going on there and what can we learn from the younger generation other than to be younger? It's a great question, Jim. One of the things that Samantha and I were talking about of the day that I find particularly interesting is that parent adults are more hopeful than non-parent adults.

36:23And you might have, the cynic might've thought the opposite would be true. That if you've got these little kids you're bringing into this world with all this stuff happening right now, it's like, oh my God, it's never going to work out. And it just raises the question, what's the chicken and what's the egg? Are people who are just wired for hope more likely to have kids, you know, and so therefore they, you know, they, they show up with kids. So there's a lot of young adults that are choosing not to have kids. Maybe it's the hopeful parents that are having kids, or is it the fact that just by having a kid in your life, you become hopeful.

36:55So again, as I was saying earlier, kids are an incredible tonic for hope, whether it's because we're pre-programmed for it or because they're, they're bringing it to our lives. I found that data fascinating because as a cynic, you would think you don't want to bring your children into this complicated world where you might feel less hope than before. But from personal experience, I can say that I absolutely feel more hope from my children.

37:33Jim Stengel:Now, I want to last big block before we start closing this is George, you had a very provocative statement a few minutes ago about no one owns hope. It's a not in the middle of anyone's brand pyramid or brand diamond or whatever it might be. And that it could be, I mean, the argument I think we've been having here, the discussion we've been having is it might be the most relevant currency today. And so what should we do about that? People listening who are brand managers, marketing directors, CMOs are thinking, scratching their heads saying, how do we do this? How do we play in hope? How do we go from where we are today to maybe something that is more hopeful to help us make a deeper connection with people, to drive our brand, to drive our business, to make my organization more inspired?

38:18Well, I have two thoughts on that. I'm sure Samantha will also. We talked in our last episode, Jim, about the idea of goosebump marketing, which is the marketing, which is when you see it as an audience, it strikes a nerve. It's so real and so authentic that it gives you goosebumps. If you want to be a hopeful brand and sort of have that kind of huge emotional reaction, you can't just say to your audience, I'm about hope. You've got to find kind of the organic connection between some aspect of hope and the emotional DNA that's within your brand. So again, through whatever means you decide to do that, you've got to sort of take some emotional inventory of what your brand stands for on a quantitative basis and figure out which of those is A, most connected to hope and be most relevant to them as human beings.

39:02So it's right under all of our noses. And again, the first brand that gets there, I think is gonna find a lot of receptivity and enthusiasm.

39:11Jim Stengel:So what's your day to say about maybe the top three or four drivers of hope that people could ponder? Number one, financial stability. Number two, small everyday joys. Number three, feeling emotionally supportive. So this idea of, I'm here to help you not just with the rational parts of your life and the challenges you face on an everyday basis, but to sort of understand and support you as a human and emotionally. The fourth one is feeling physically fit. So, you know, between those four, there's a lot of space here for a whole range of brands and categories to play. I was going to say the other thing you can do is you can associate yourself with a co-host organization that stands for hope.

39:52Yeah. And I would say you would do really well to think about St. Jude's because they are the one. I mean, again, there's lots of nonprofits doing lots of great things that I admire and salute all of them. But there's only one that is sort of staked at this idea of promoting and spreading hope in the world that is St. Jude's. So there's a lot to be gained, I think, by calling Samantha and her team to find ways of partnering. Well, hope is one of our brand tenants. Yeah. We think about hope as part of our DNA. hope in humanity, excellence in patient care, and science and research breakthroughs.

40:27World-class, cutting-edge science and research breakthroughs. And it is that pyramid that drives us. And it is our goal to be seen as a beacon of hope globally. I do think that anyone in any seat that is stewarding a brand has to think about appealing to people's need states. And I said it before, but I deeply believe hope is a universal human need. So if you're thinking about how to connect with your brand, you have to touch that in some way. Just another thought that a CMO might consider is, is this whole conversation, I think on the topic of hope gives you a whole new way of talking about value in the marketplace.

41:16Every single one of our clients is looking for ways to talk about value. And a lot of it tends to be pretty rational. Again, not to be critical at all, but it's like, you know, buy this and get another one free or, you know, the kind of loyalty programs. And that's fine. But this gives you, this idea of hope gives you a much more emotionally evocative way of talking about value. You're not just saving me a buck. You're not just giving me an extra order of French fries when I buy a hamburger. You're making it possible for me to feel hopeful again, that there is a way for me to be happy and satisfied in a way which is affordable.

41:52Yeah, I think you're also giving people agency so they can feel they can do something meaningful. People want to do good in the world. George can show you research that shows people want to be a good person. What that looks like by generation, by geography may vary slightly, but in general, they want to have an impact in the world.

42:15Jim Stengel:Yeah, I love that. So I think it gives you agency. I think proof because you can see your progress and your impact. You know, I don't want to, I'm going to state the obvious here, but there's not a whole lot of hope in geopolitics these days, just as we're recording, just all sorts of stuff is going on. So, I mean, it's a tremendous opportunity and a chance for incredible impact to use your word, Samantha, and personal fulfillment and agency if you're leading a brand or a company to play in this hope space? Because I think brands and companies can do this in a way that a lot of our other organizations cannot right now.

42:53Just another sort of thought on that is hope is generationally agnostic, as we just spoke about. It's category agnostic, and it's also market agnostic. You know, the desire for hope is every bit as great among a 35-year-old mom in Germany as a 35-year-old mom in the U.S., as a 35-year-old mom in South Korea. So for those people who are looking for a single message, which is going to resonate emotionally and magnetically around the world, again, you won't do better than hope. Yeah. I think hope has always mattered. It just feels more urgent now when people are dealing with these compound pressures in daily life.

43:31And I think that they can see performative actions a mile away and they're looking for honesty and help, not perfection. But I think that's why I think about hope as a practice, as a way of life. And that's resonating now.

43:54Jim Stengel:Last question. What gives each of you hope in your life right now? Well, for me, two answers. Right before this program, I took my dog for a walk in the park. And there was a mom, sorry, a mom and a dad and two kids, like five-year-old and seven-year-old. And they were plating hide-and-seek. They weren't all on their phone having a picnic. They could order each other. You know, they were doing what we used to do 50 years ago. And you can't believe the squeals of laughter and joy when the little girl went around and found her dad hiding the obvious place in full view, but kind of pretending to hide.

44:30Again, that's restoration of kind of the basic human values that have always given us joy and real authentic comfort in the world. I saw in that moment of play between a parent and their child. And the second one, as I said earlier, is my daughter's getting married. And that just gives me a tremendous sense of hope that these two wonderful human beings are going to come together and bring more of that into the world with hopefully some grandchildren.

44:58Jim Stengel:I love that, George. Well, I think we're going to see an ad the next six to nine months. It opens with a family playing hide and seek in a public park. Samantha, how about yourself? Absolutely, my children. Every day. Every day is new and they give me hope in every situation. When I'm having my lowest day, this is an incredible place to be and miracles happen every day. And some days are really hard. Some days we lose children. And when I come home and I see their faces and I get to be with them and enjoy our time as a family, my husband, that gives me hope. Beautiful. Well, we're recording this the week before the big Advertising Hall of Fame, which I'm being inducted into next week, a big thing in New York City.

45:47Jim Stengel:And I'm just raising it because I had to write a speech and I reflected on the first time I came to this ceremony, which was in 2002, so a long time ago, and it was to prepare John Smale's induction into the Hall of Fame as a previous chairman and CEO of P &G. And I was very moved that night because the Hall of Fame is all these people who are senior where their stories are told. And I felt a tremendous amount of hope for business, for brands, for myself, you know, 24 years ago. And I try to go every year because you hear the stories of a few people who've made a notable impact and it fills you with hope on all sorts of levels.

46:33Jim Stengel:So this is an interesting episode to be recording. It's my last episode I'm recording before heading to New York for this thing. But I think we all have the potential, right? This is this episode is about through our brands and through ourselves to do tangible things to inspire hope, which is, I don't know, I guess George and Samantha, you'd argue possibly the most powerful emotion. And available to just about any brand that chooses to look closely at it. Beautiful. Wow. Okay, George and Samantha, anything else you want to say before we wrap up this beautiful conversation about hope? Well, just a quick congratulations to you, Jim, for your induction into the hall of fame.

47:11That was a big deal. There's a lot of awards out there. I think more than we need, but this is a big one and you certainly have earned it. The kind of impact you're making on the marketing community, it just can't be overstated. It is very special. We are all looking forward to seeing you up there next week and celebrating you.

47:29Jim Stengel:Well, Hey, you two, you've been on the show before. Welcome back. This is a fantastic discussion. I love you both. And it's great getting the two of you together. You've not I've been on the show as a couple. I can tell you have a wonderful relationship, working relationship. So thanks for the great conversation. Thank you so much. Thank you, Jim. That was my conversation with Samantha and George. I'm going to do this one a little bit differently today. Three things in this conversation that gave me hope. And the first one was this entire discussion about the rich brand territory or brand currency of hope and how no brand other than maybe St.

48:02Jim Stengel:Jude's has that at the center of their brand strategy. There is such opportunity, especially in these times, to try to be a brand or a company that stands for hope, that engenders hope, that takes actions to drive hope. I think that's very, very powerful. And that gave me hope today. Second one, these two people, George and Samantha, I know them. They've been on the show before. Both these people give me hope. They're wonderful human beings. They're doing work that's important. I love their partnership together. You can tell they work together so well. But I think how they approach their life, how they approach their business certainly gives me hope.

48:39Jim Stengel:And the third area, and I'll stay with the friendship and family theme, I'm hopeful about next week. I'm being admitted into the Hall of Fame. My entire family's coming together. It always makes me hopeful when the people I love and I've spent my life with, friends, family, come together and get on, have a great time, get to know each other better and show their gratitude, their love and their hope. I'm looking forward to that next week. This discussion made me very hopeful about that. That's it for this week's episode of the CMO Podcast. As always, I would be grateful if you shared our show with your friends, along with subscribing and leaving a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen.

49:22Jim Stengel:The CMO Podcast is a Vive Original Production.