Sofia Hernandez (TikTok) | The Future of Marketing Belongs to the Curious

16:33Jim Stengel:there's our TikTok headline.

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17:53Jim Stengel:now listen besides the hyper growth environment and everything you just said why is this company had such staying power for you i think it's the longest you've ever been in one role one organization you were at publicist a longer time but you were in different roles

18:05Sofia Hernandez:yeah it's a great question i one fundamentally believe in the product i love how tiktok empowered, underestimated voices to really shine and have a voice. Anyone you think about Kabilam, for instance, who is a factory worker in Northern Milan, had just lost his job and started making TikToks where he doesn't even talk. He just shrugs at things that he thinks are ridiculous and silly. And he's now the highest, one of the highest paid creators in the world. And so it gave everyone and anyone an opportunity to share their voice, share their talents, share their passions and their interest. And I fundamentally love that that's what it has done in this world.

18:49Sofia Hernandez:In terms of the role, I'm not joking when I say every single day I learn and every challenge that I was given from my managers or from the CEO, every time I said, oh, I don't know that that's possible. Oh, that's really aggressive. Like, I'm not sure we can. And they were like, try. and we did it every time. And there were only a few kind of pushes before I started to just incorporate that into how I operate and how I lead my team. Because you know what, the whole concept of good, fast, cheap, you can't have all three, you can actually have all three, especially today with new technology. And so it really pushed me to get out of the mindset of like, I don't think we can.

19:33Sofia Hernandez:In fact, when I lived in Paris, I joke about how the biggest phrase I'd get was se pas possible, which is like, it's impossible. And I'm like, but it is possible, right? Like I've erased se pas possible from my lexicon because everything is possible. Sure, there will be sacrifices here and there, but we've really pushed ourselves to the max to do things that we didn't think were possible. And it changes your mentality as a leader, right? And how you structure your teams and how you lead your teams and what kind of budgets you ask for and how you use your budgets. And I think it's made me an incredible, not only marketer, but also operator.

20:11Jim Stengel:Now your company's in the news a lot. Of course, it's always been, but especially recently with the new ownership of TikTok US. And I don't want to go into the details of that. It's been covered very well. But anytime a business goes through a change, a new ownership, an acquisition, it's time for reflection, renewal, recharging. So I just like you to wax a little bit about what are you hopeful about with this change and how are you managing that with your team?

20:39Sofia Hernandez:I'll keep it specific to the team. I think with this change, it also is happening at a time of kind of like a new, I don't even call it a chapter. It's like a new volume of growth for the company. And so, you know, the first five years we were really growing the product, growing the business, growing the audience, globalizing, figuring out really who we were. And I think we have a very strong sense of that now. And so we're moving out of, you know, like maybe we're moving out of adolescence and into a more mature phase of our being. And with that comes more mature processes, more mature go-to-market strategies.

21:24Sofia Hernandez:So it's really kind of we're moving into that phase and it's having us rethink everything from, you know, like what we're saying about ourselves as a brand, how we're showing up, how we're behaving and what kind of people we need to take us into the next five, six years of growth, which is the reality of any company at this phase of growth. So that's really it. I think it's more practical than maybe people think. But yeah, we're entering a brand new phase of growth and with it comes new thinking, new ideas, new ways of being.

21:58Jim Stengel:I think you remember this. Four years ago, you came into my CMO accelerator program at the Cannes Festival and you were still a relatively new brand then, right? We're talking about 2022, 20. Yeah, I think it was 2022. And if I remember that presentation correctly, I think the title was 10 things CMOs needed to know to think like marketers, but act like creators. I think that was a title and you went through all 10 and we do a lot of research on that program every year to be sure that we're nailing it. People are benefiting from it. It was the most highly rated segment that year.

22:33Sofia Hernandez:Oh, that's awesome. I didn't know that. Thanks.

22:35Jim Stengel:So do you remember that?

22:36Sofia Hernandez:I do remember. I remember because there was something that I had done as an experiment that I talked about a lot at that class, which was I usually have creators on the main stage with me at Cannes. And I did something before we got on stage that wasn't rehearsed. But I said, if I asked you guys to concept an ad for me on stage, would you be able to do that? And they're like, yeah. Right. And so I said, Adidas reaches out to you and they want to promote their new sneaker. Go. And literally within 30 seconds, one of the creators said, well, I would start with some photos of me as a kid because I used to wear Adidas all the time and I love soccer.

23:19Sofia Hernandez:So I'd show myself as a kid kicking the soccer ball around and then I would cut to myself as an adult wearing the new sneaker, et cetera, et cetera. I'm like, that is how fast things are happening today. And I think that was not like a light bulb, but definitely set the stage for the reality of the role creators would play in marketing when we were talking about it back in 2022 and the new mindset shift that marketers needed to incorporate around creating content. And by the way, here we are now in 2026, and there's even more hyper ability for instant creation of content and really high quality content at the touch of a button.

24:04Sofia Hernandez:And so I think a lot of what we talked about back then is still relevant today. We talked about evolving business timelines. One thing I think we're still struggling with is I always say that as marketers, we're really great at being students of culture. We hire agencies. We work with, you know, our research and insights companies. And we're great at being students of culture. But what audiences and people and humans want today from brands is for brands to be a part of culture. And that's really hard for brands. That's really, really hard for brands because, and I said this then, like we're very comfortable in our brand safety guidelines box and legal and CEOs and investors are very uncomfortable with brands putting their brand in the hands of consumers.

24:51Sofia Hernandez:But that is fundamentally what consumers expect today if you really want to win their hearts.

24:57Jim Stengel:What do you think it'll take to shift that?

24:59Sofia Hernandez:So, I mean, you know this very well, Jim, like every brand has a few areas that they feel really define the brand, right? Like Pepsi music or, you know, so-and-so fashion. I think we're going to have to go beyond that very kind of generic definition and figure out how far into social justice topics we're willing to to go whether or not we dare touch politics when you think about you know what happened with target and black and brown lgbtqa communities i mean that was a moment where target had to make a choice and you know the smartest brands are already preempting those situations and really expanding their definition of where they play and what they're willing to talk about and stand up for.

25:48Sofia Hernandez:And people are going to hold brands more accountable moving forward.

25:53Jim Stengel:Do you think the issues with brands is that they're not consistent? Because I think the ones that I think really were in the press a lot for not the right reasons, I'm not sure it was the action they took. It was just the lack of consistency.

26:08Sofia Hernandez:I think consistency is one, but I think it was a fundamental definition of who we are and who we aren't. And that's what I think is going to have to evolve. Like brands really need to get their core leaders together and decide like, how do we expand this current sandbox that we've defined and how far do we go? And the brands that are, that define that and are true to it, no matter what happens, they're going to win.

26:33Jim Stengel:Now your presentation you made at Cannes was a big hit, but I know you're learning every day. Your thinking has evolved since then. And your team shared with us some work that you're doing sort of on what are the principles of modern successful marketing. But could you talk about those four principles? And I think they were earn the seed, growth breaks, what used to work, structure is a growth lever, and speed comes from alignment. So you were the most popular speaker four years ago in Cannes. Maybe you'll come back this year. But if you could expound on that a little bit, what you're learning now, why those are bedrock principles for you at this time.

27:08Sofia Hernandez:Yeah, I mean, I'll start with marketing has to earn its seat. And this is really kind of rooted in all of the roles I've played in marketing for the last two decades. And especially over the last six years, not just because I was at TikTok, but because in the last six years, we've had an incredible amount of disruption and shift in our industry. So I think some people come into a marketing org and just feel entitled to be there, right? When all along, we know that marketing is a cost center, always has been, but we are being held more and more accountable to prove ROI, right? And so instead of resisting that, I think it's our responsibility to very quickly and very regularly prove why marketing exists to be, you know, like a strong driver of the business.

28:01Sofia Hernandez:And I believe marketing exists to drive the business. It's not just to build relationships. It's not just to do really cool, stunty things, but there are so many ways that marketing directly and indirectly impacts the bottom line. And I think we need to tell that story and tell that story regularly. So one thing I've told my team is like as much marketing as we're doing externally, we have to do the same internally. Like we're constantly, constantly on an internal campaign talking about our successes and not in a chess beady way, but by the way, that new AI product that we just launched, this was the result of it.

28:37Sofia Hernandez:And this is why we were right in doing XYZ, right? And so people aren't good at talking about themselves in a positive way and their successes, but we constantly have to prove that we have a seat at the table by talking about business impact. And yeah, I think it's an ongoing and recurring and constant thing, which is kind of a pain, but it is what it is. So the second point is when you're in environments of hyper growth, which everyone is right now, hyper growth, hyper, hyper change, what used to work breaks, And you should just anticipate that it will, that what you used to do as a best practice or consider a best practice is no longer relevant.

29:18Sofia Hernandez:And so instead of waiting for that to break, how do you proactively start thinking about, you know, things that we used to do in a more scalable, in a more innovative, in a more like new technology type of way? So that's like the second point is just be proactive with kind of breaking your own models and evolving them.

29:40Jim Stengel:Anyone you want to cite on that point other than yourselves? I mean, I think it's a very powerful point.

29:46Sofia Hernandez:Yeah, I think for the industry overall, this, and we mentioned it earlier, this idea of like, I want to work with one media entity who is going to help me plan my ecosystem of, you know, like media outlets to reach my audiences. Like that is a very antiquated way of thinking about connecting with your audiences. I think today you have to be on the pulse every day, every week, every month and constantly restructuring and tweaking that original model. I think an original model is fine, but you need to be more interactive and engaged in the community because things are happening from one day to another and the best brands are in that conversation.

30:32Sofia Hernandez:So how do we evolve that? And I've been in many conversations where CMOs are saying, like, I just don't have the bandwidth. I know that actually some of the indie agencies are better or they're they're better for my business, but I don't have the bandwidth to manage it all. Figure it out because you need to be partnering with the best partners and media agencies have an opportunity to bring in more of those kind of indie companies and deliver a better offering for their for their partners. So I think that's one example.

31:00Jim Stengel:Number three.

31:01Sofia Hernandez:Structure. we are just very averse to change and redundancies and reorgs. And I mean, you see it in the media, like so-and-so lays off 10 ,000 people, so-and-so 4 ,000 people. And it's like everyone's scared and paralyzed. And within TikTok, we've moved so fast and have literally changed in six month increments that I've had to really think ahead to avoid this disruption. Like if we're changing this fast and I'm in year one and a half, what am I going to need in year three? How can I think ahead and how can I bring those people in now so that I'm not being reactive and it doesn't feel like there are changes in the organization, but also being more open to changes in the organization because the business is moving so fast.

31:50Sofia Hernandez:And so we need to upskill and reskill people, but sometimes we need to bring new people in. So just moving away from like the kind of the scarlet A that's on your chest when you're like thinking about dependencies and reorgs.

32:05Jim Stengel:How do you manage that with your people, your organization?

32:08Sofia Hernandez:I don't have a perfect answer for that. People are people and we don't like change. And it is a very emotional process. Like I've done this throughout my career and every time it's never easier because we also have things going on, right? In our personal lives. And so I don't know that there's a perfect way to manage that with people. But the approach I've taken is to be transparent that this is a culture of change. And so when people are like, can we anticipate more changes? Probably. Right. And like this concept of job security and stability. I don't know that that even exists in the ecosystem anymore.

32:43Sofia Hernandez:And I'm not talking about TikTok specifically. I'm talking about our world, like things are moving and changing and shifting. So I think it's just like rose colored glasses, you know, the fact that as innovation change, as the business needs change, we'll change and just being transparent about it.

33:01Jim Stengel:That's a start, right?

33:02Sofia Hernandez:And honestly, like making the time people are spending here great while they're here. Like life is short. I don't want to work for a jerk. I don't want to be that kind of leader. I want to be a leader where people feel like they're constantly growing and they're coming to work every day motivated. So it's on us. It's a lot of responsibility on all of us to keep the business moving forward, keep a healthy kind of approach to the business and keep people happy. It's hard to juggle all of that.

33:28Jim Stengel:Number four, speed comes from alignment.

33:30Sofia Hernandez:I always call the marketing or the octopus because we have our tentacles in every single discipline, every single discipline in the organization, everyone. And there's no other discipline that can do that, which is why I think we're like superstars, gods and goddesses of the organization. And so if that's our role, that there's a lot of power in that, right? And I often find that marketing is driving a lot of the communication and clarification within the organization. And so how do we use that to our advantage? We have an internal tagline on our team where we, our team is called GBM. And our tagline is we connect minds to make magic.

34:13Sofia Hernandez:And that's very much kind of what drives us. Like we are master connectors throughout the org. So when this product person's not talking to this product person and we know that that story is better together, that's our job. We need to figure out how to smooth that out and get the right message out to the industry.

34:28Jim Stengel:That's a P &G at its best operates that way, as you remember at its best.

34:33Sofia Hernandez:Yep.

34:40Sofia Hernandez:Hey, everybody. This is Andrea Sullivan, the CEO of Vive, and we produce the CMO podcast and are so excited to have partnered with Jim Stengel for so many years. Wanted to tell you a little bit about something that could be right for you. Vive is a program for entrepreneurs and business leaders who want to get more out of their life and become their best and happiest selves, both personally and professionally. We have a 12-month program that allows people to meet up with some of the best business leaders out there. and additionally experts in the wellness sector so that you can learn how to nurture yourself.

35:14Sofia Hernandez:So we teach things around sleep optimization, meditation, all those good things as well. Please reach out to us at podcasts at vibe.co to get more information. That's P-O-D-C-A-S-T-S at V-Y-V-E.co. Thanks for listening to the CMO podcast and hope to talk to you more about Vibe.

35:39Jim Stengel:you interact with a lot of cmos at variety of companies through your day-to-day responsibilities and you have a great podcast series i watched a couple of them they're wonderful you're a great host thank you what do you feel that cmos are getting right now we're just talking about the insane change and where do you think the blind spots are i think the cmos that are doing it right

36:01Sofia Hernandez:are finding ways to be a CMO plus. And I know a lot of people don't want to hear that, but I'm like, I know you just had So Young on. I mean, So Young is president now, right? And you think about someone like Corey, who's president of OneLine, but also CMO of the rest. And so -

36:19Jim Stengel:Adelf, yep.

36:20Sofia Hernandez:Yes, yes, Corey Adelf. And so I think CMOs are owning the fact that they have a greater impact on the organization and they're finding ways to really secure that in a more formal way. As it relates to connecting with audiences, what I'm seeing happening at like warp speed is the formation of more hyper micro communities. And so when you think about how we think about go to market in this like mass reach way, right? Like we still very much think about reach and impressions and we're moving into an environment where people are so tired with what's coming at them that they're going into these hyper micro communities.

37:02Sofia Hernandez:In fact, the creators that have smaller followings have almost like eight, I think the stat is 18 % more engagement than mass creators because they have a stronger connection with their communities. And so I just talked about the challenge CMOs have managing this ecosystem of agencies, right? I think, by the way, I think they all need bells, brand agency leads. But, you know, they're like, this is too overwhelming. I just want one person to work with to reach my audiences. The reality is like now all these micro communities are going to make that even more difficult. So that's something that CMOs really need to keep their eye on is how am I going to start to engage at that hyper niche level?

37:44Sofia Hernandez:Because that's where the real impact is going to happen.

37:47Jim Stengel:I would think AI's potential is to help them do that.

37:51Sofia Hernandez:It is.

37:52Jim Stengel:In a way that may have been unthought of four years ago.

37:55Sofia Hernandez:Yeah, I think from a creative production standpoint and personalization, certainly also from a distribution standpoint, the automation is making it so much more easy. I really think it's an internal problem. The tools are out there. It's really like, how do we shift our mentality? How do we shift our planning cycles? And how do we shift our internal operations to work that way?

38:16Jim Stengel:I think we've talked about this, but you had a great quote I wanted to come back to. You said that people or consumers expect brands to behave like people and that everyone wants to be entertained. Now, that's kind of the point we talked about five minutes ago. It's not the norm in modern marketing. And, you know, do you want to wax on that a little bit? Like, how could we make that the norm?

38:39Sofia Hernandez:How can we make entertainment the norm?

38:41Jim Stengel:And to behave like people, right? Brands behaving like people versus something else.

38:46Sofia Hernandez:Right. So we talked a little bit about just how we need to widen our kind of like spaces that we feel safe playing within. So our guidelines and what we stand for as a brand, I think from a action standpoint, it really is holding ourselves accountable as marketers and our minus ones and minus twos to actually be where the community is. So like how many comments are you reading through in your vertical? Like how many searches are you doing? How much are you almost like behaving like your audience so that you truly understand what their experiences are? I can't tell you how many times I speak to a group of very senior marketers who still don't have TikTok downloaded on their phones and fundamentally don't understand what that community or experience is like.

39:35Sofia Hernandez:And by the way, that's changing very quickly. We're starting to see a lot more activity around search within the TikTok platform. people are searching within the first 30 seconds. So that means that there's a whole new way for your brand to be discovered. And I think marketers just need to be on the pulse of those things by actually rolling up their sleeves, by rolling up our sleeves and diving in.

39:58Jim Stengel:I thought it'd be nice to do a little round, a very TikTok, a fun round about a sort of a rapid fire regarding CMOs on what you want to keep, kill, or rethink. You probably want to rethink most of these, but you might want to kill a few of them. So the first one is chief marketing officer title.

40:16Sofia Hernandez:Kill. I think this is more than marketing. So maybe it's a rethink, but it's more than marketing. We are responsible for the consumer and the way the consumer sees everything related to the brand, whether it's philanthropy, whether it's product, whether it's, you know, like how we show up at events, like everything related to consumers, the role of the marketing leader.

40:39Jim Stengel:Okay. Big Super Bowl style campaigns.

40:42Sofia Hernandez:Rethink. We have a lot of brands that are not opting into Super Bowl and have been TikTok first, but I still think like one of my favorites ads was the Coinbase ad, the karaoke Coinbase ad, because it's inexpensive, it's brilliant, and it incited engagement, which is very hard to do on television. And so kudos to that brand. But I think what you want is engagement and that's really best served off the big screen.

41:14Jim Stengel:Marketing owning revenue targets.

41:16Sofia Hernandez:Keep it evolve.

41:17Jim Stengel:Keep it evolve.

41:18Sofia Hernandez:I think that's what seeds us as an important entity in the business. And frankly, I want to own revenue targets. Like I want to be someone, a leader at the company that is responsible for the growth directly.

41:32Jim Stengel:This is a quote we hear over and over. Some love it, some don't. Move fast and break things.

41:37Sofia Hernandez:I don't know that you have to break things to move fast. I think you have to leave things behind, which I know is essentially the same sentiment, but break things sounds so scary. I think you just need to constantly evolve, like challenge yourself to constantly evolve and move forward.

41:55Jim Stengel:Long-form storytelling.

41:56Sofia Hernandez:Still very much has a role, although I wonder where we're headed just as I see newer generations and their lack of patience for longer form. I wonder where we're going with long form. I still think it very much has a long shelf life, though, and it's right for certain stories.

42:16Jim Stengel:Purpose inspired brand building.

42:18Sofia Hernandez:Purpose inspired brand building. purpose is a core part of what marketers need to almost like redefine re-explore as it relates to the brands because we are moving especially you know in in the coming two to five years we're moving into a territory globally but especially here in the u.s where purpose is everything why do we do this why are we selling this what do we how do we really want to connect with people? What are we really telling them about this? The days of like the, I remember this fondly from my PNG days of like the reason to believe and the key statements and the scientific like before and after, like honestly, that matters less and less and less.

43:05Jim Stengel:How do you think we can get purpose better understood? So I think people seem to equate it with philanthropy or cause marketing And it's, as you believe, I think it's a much more deep and fundamental idea. It's kind of why you're here, the difference you're trying to make with your customers and in the world. It's related to your business. It has to be something that inspires people inside the company and outside the company.

43:34Sofia Hernandez:I think marketers and brands need to think about what consumers want. And consumers want to, they want emotional ROI. and because they're exposed to so many face masks that promise to deliver the same benefit and by the way insert any product into that example they are expecting something much more personalized to why they want to buy and i'll give you an example i was talking to someone on the team and we were talking about emotional purchases or why you buy things and she just got a new nicer apartment and her, her big purchase right now is a fancy rug. Right. And so how is, and how is like, you know, a rug company washable, for instance, going to tap into that emotional ROI insight and really figure out how to connect with that consumer.

44:31Sofia Hernandez:And that's not necessarily a purpose driven example, but the reason I'm bringing it up is because purpose is rooted in emotion. And we just, we need to figure out, and this is why I'm saying like, it's not about mass marketing anymore. We really need to figure out how to talk to these audience in a way that matters to them.

44:58Jim Stengel:Sophia, I want to flip into the creative brief and I want to talk about your grandmother and mother who just sound like amazing human beings. Give our audience a bit of context on them, but I'd like you to talk about how they specifically have influenced your leadership style.

45:13Sofia Hernandez:Oh man, I'm going to try to like make this a very short because I could talk about this for hours. So my grandmother was like an original feminist. She came from the tuberculosis era and she was born in the U.S. but raised in Mexico. And in Mexico, they were like, you've got tuberculosis, you're not going to live. So she flew to Buffalo, New York to get better, hopefully in a sanitarium that they had there. She knew no English. She came from like a poor area of Mexico. So like they didn't even really know what streetlights were and things. And she just like, imagine having this deadly disease, leaving your family and country and going into the sanitarium in the United States in Buffalo, New York, where there's like tons of snow, by the way that she's never experienced.

46:00Sofia Hernandez:And so the way that she lived, but the way that she overcame that, and then, you know, like taught herself English, got a job, bought her own home, bought her own car without being married. Like she had three daughters, raised them as a single mother, like that, you know, like, I can't even imagine doing that. Like I have a husband who's a creative and he kind of stays at home and helps with the kids, but like, I can't even imagine doing all of that on my own. And so especially with language barriers and an illness. And I just like, I think about that and that kind of keeps me going like, whoa, she did that.

46:35Sofia Hernandez:I can do anything.

46:36Jim Stengel:What was her name? Her first name?

46:38Sofia Hernandez:Her name is Susanna. Yeah. Thank you for asking that. And then you can imagine what kind of daughters she raised. And so my mother's the middle child, super feisty activist has been marching. She's a counselor in Chicago's public, most inner city schools. And she is just someone who gives herself to the community and, you know, works before school, after school, counsels parents if they need it. And she has just always fought for people's rights. And Chicago is historically a city that is very rooted in like activism. And so that is the environment I grew up in. And I think it really shaped how I think about navigating corporate America.

47:21Sofia Hernandez:And, you know, like when things that feel unfair here happen, I don't let them stop me or hold me back or kind of knock me down. I just think of it as something more that we have to overcome. And so my goal in this space is, is twofold. One from a marketing standpoint is to really change the way we exist as brands. and I talk a lot about like a feminine hygiene commercial that I saw early in my early 20s where a girl plugged a canoe with a tampon and I was like oh my god how did they think that would resonate with women but like how do we change that how do we see more kind of diverse experiences and thoughts and stuff in the work that we put out in the way we show up but also internally like how do we see more people like me I grew up on the south side of Chicago and you know people say this a lot, but like, I'm not supposed to be here.

48:15Sofia Hernandez:Right. There's 1 % of me out there. And I believe if you can see it, you can be it. And so my goal is to continue to help people see it.

48:24Jim Stengel:Did Susanna or your mother, what's your mother's name?

48:26Sofia Hernandez:Anna.

48:27Jim Stengel:Anna. Have they ever given you leadership advice?

48:30Sofia Hernandez:I didn't get a lot of guidance on how to navigate these spaces. Right. But when it comes to like leadership advice, leadership is about being a great human, you know, and, and like I mentioned earlier, like how, how you treat people and how you get people to feel motivated to achieve something. And so, yes, they, there were a lot of values they instilled in me that really helped shape who I am as a leader, but within corporate landscape, it hasn't only been women or people of color. I've had so many mentors, all shapes, sizes, colors, et cetera, that have really helped me be who I am today. And I'm really grateful for all of that.

49:10Sofia Hernandez:And my PSA to everyone watching is like, please just spend time taking someone under your wing and showing them the way because there's so much that's unspoken that matters as we navigate these environments.

49:23Jim Stengel:Can you speak about one or two people who took you under their wing?

49:26Sofia Hernandez:Sure. Very early days, I was a part of a lot of like these leadership groups that, you know, corporate entities bring into inner city schools. And so one was called junior achievement. And there is a woman named Bonita bird who was, she's biracial and was one of the first women of color to be in the sales org at AB and Bev. And she had a very, yeah, she, yes, exactly. She had a very successful career and she was kind of our mentor. And so she's known me since I was in seventh grade. And she decided later in her career to leave corporate America because she was just kind of done with it all. And she has been a mentor and a guide my whole life.

50:11Sofia Hernandez:And it's really special to know someone from back then that watches you through not only your like personal development, but then your corporate development. So she's, she's one of the people that I'm really grateful for.

50:23Jim Stengel:What's the first brand you remember making an impact on you?

50:26Sofia Hernandez:Oh, wow. That's a good question. I think Marcus Collins talks about this a lot, like how much influence we have on culture as brands and people's identities. And I think probably early days, it was the clothing brand Gerbeau. Do you remember that brand? Because that was so iconically kind of what everyone is wearing, big striped shirts, big baggy pants. And that was very much my thing back then. But I just remember it feeling not just like an urban brand, but a very aspirational brand, maybe because of the name, maybe because of how they presented themselves. But that was one of the brands that I had really kind of an early affinity for that I really felt was like, wow, I want that.

51:15Jim Stengel:You are surrounded by popular culture in your role, with your team, with your company, moving very quickly, something new every day, endlessly fascinating. What do you do to keep yourself kind of recharged, renewed, refreshed in this environment in which you're working? To go into a different speed, do you meditate, do you exercise, do you travel?

51:39Sofia Hernandez:Yeah, all of the above, actually. So I exercise, I'm really into yoga. My husband desperately wants me to meditate, but it's something that I've started and stopped a million times. If I'm being honest, the people really inspire me and invigorate me. So I travel a lot. Like over the next three weeks, I'll be in three different countries, Dubai, Bangkok, et cetera. And just immersing myself into my teams, the team's culture and learning from them, that really gets me going. Like I get so energized by learning like how my team in Singapore is leaning into trends differently than my team in the middle East.

52:24Sofia Hernandez:Like it's just, it's, I love, I'm like a sponge when it comes to other cultures. And so I think that's part of the reason I've chosen roles that are global because I get that constant kind of, you know, reinvigoration through the teams. And then when I'm not working, honestly, I just want to be with my kids and have some fun and we travel a lot too. We're big. I have a bad case of wanderlust since I was very young.

52:46Jim Stengel:It's not a bad thing. It's a very good thing. No, I think what you just said, travel is so traveling to see your teams. I mean, I did that a lot when I was at PNG and I did it more and more as I got more senior. It works on so many levels. You are, you're learning yourself, you're being renewed, you're finding best practices. You are giving more than you're taking. People just love that you show up and you want to be there and hear what they're going through. I always spent time in the market with families I didn't understand to better understand them no matter what the culture was. So it's a really, I think, an important leadership characteristic in any company, any category.

53:28Sofia Hernandez:I agree so much. I'll just add that I was shocked when people told me like, you're so you're so down to earth because I'd go have beers or I'd go to the local hawker at lunch. I think as senior leaders, our HR leader told me once, don't forget that you're the person people are talking about with their families at home. Right. Like when you're this senior, like you're like, wow. And for you to actually say, let's go to lunch at the hawker or let me take you guys out for drinks that matter so much. So it's not just about going to the markets and sitting in an office and, you know, like wearing the most expensive clothes and walking through the halls.

54:06Sofia Hernandez:It's like really connecting everything I'm saying marketers need to do with their audiences, right? It's the same with leadership, like really sitting with them and engaging and like being there, not just visiting.

54:17Jim Stengel:You also host a podcast with TikTok. I've watched a few of them. You had some great guests on. Who would you love to have in your show that you haven't had on yet?

54:25Sofia Hernandez:You, Jim. Will you come on the show next? Of course I will. That wasn't a setup, by the way.

54:31Jim Stengel:That wasn't a self-serving setup.

54:33Sofia Hernandez:No, I think like, again, I've been listening to your podcast forever and you've had such an incredibly diverse, like almost everyone, right? And different perspectives. I would love for you like to hear your summary and best practices from your experience and just from hearing all of this.

54:52Jim Stengel:Let's make a date.

54:53Sofia Hernandez:All right, we'll do it.

54:54Jim Stengel:And you can buy me beers.

54:56Sofia Hernandez:I will.

54:56Jim Stengel:Sophia, thank you for this. It was so much fun. And I knew this would be a fantastic conversation. And it was. So you are opened up by saying you're a remarkable human being. And I really mean that. And I think even more so now. So thank you for this conversation.

55:11Sofia Hernandez:I really appreciate it. Thanks for making it a fun and easy one. Thank you.

55:16Jim Stengel:That was my conversation with Sophia. Three takeaways from this one. If you're a business brand in life, and let's start with leadership. I think the leadership lesson here is about being a great human being. And Sophia certainly embodies that. I think half of the show was about how she leads, how she cares about people. She travels to be with her people, to be an advocate, to listen, to help them be more successful, to take their ideas. She is one remarkable leader. And this was, I think, a masterclass on that. Second takeaway, the role of the CMO. When I asked Sophia if we should change the name, she said, well, I don't know.

55:52Jim Stengel:But I certainly would say CMO+. I think her views of the CMO being a fluid role to being one that has much more impact on the enterprise than some people might expect. It's the one function that sort of touches everything. And I think if you adopt the mindset of being an enterprise leader, that changes how you think about your work. Third takeaway, structure is a growth lever. What does that mean? Sophia talked about her organizational structure being very dynamic. We are in a culture of change, she says, and expect our structure to continue to evolve, sometimes as frequently as six months. And that has to be because that's the way our market is moving.

56:32Jim Stengel:And she says it's not easy to manage an organization with that mindset, but it is a lever of growth and I think one that more of us should think more deeply about. That's it for this week's episode of the CMO Podcast. As always, I would be grateful if you shared our show with your friends. along with subscribing and leaving a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen. The CMO Podcast is a Vive Original Production.