Vanessa Wallace (Savage x Fenty) | Make Your Own Rules to Express Your Style

25:14And we did all that. And I did the workouts. I did the whole thing. And I mean, I felt the culture immediately. And it was a very powerful experience for me. It's still pretty vivid in my mind. And I suspect Savage is the same way. I'm a different company, much younger. but a strong culture. You're very clear about your values. So could you talk a little bit about both of those cultures? What's special about them? Every great company has a culture you feel in the first 15 or 20 minutes you're inside. So could you talk about that in both those organizations and the impact that has had on you? Absolutely.

25:53It's definitely shaped me as a leader for sure. right? I think from a Nike perspective, the one thing that they are is true to the voice of the athlete. And I think anytime they deviate from that is when it's not as authentic and you felt that. And that's why I start there. It is in every brief you create, it is in the marketing campaigns and obsession. And in this instance, when they say the voice of the athlete, it's if you have a body, you're an athlete. So that means even their consumers, they position as athletes. And so as you obsess the consumer journey of when the shoe drops, but before it drops, what's the communication you're going to send out to the consumer?

26:30And where is the person shopping, eating, sleeping, just the obsession of it? I say that to say it permeates throughout the organization. As you know, you talked about the gyms and there's a bit of a notion of being healthy and active and not shying away from that. And I wasn't one of those people who could figure out how to play soccer during lunch or whatnot, but I did figure out in the morning or afternoon, or it wasn't unusual for you to go on a run with a person that you work with or try on the product. Right. And then I think about Savage, the reason why people come to Savage is because of our values and that inclusivity and the respect they have for Rihanna and her authenticity.

27:12And as I've gotten to know her and her team, it even further affirms why I love this brand so much. And so I I think the opportunity that I continue to do in this capacity, because it's a smaller team, so I feel like I can affect the culture even more so. How do we show up as leaders and are inclusive in how we go about our day? There's one practice that I brought over here that a mentor of mine used to say around head and heart. And I think I really got into it once again, back to during the pandemic, because as a leader, we saw people working in their homes and you met their family members. So there was a part of us who you had to be really clear around, well, you work for this brand.

27:53There's so much more that you are made up besides this, you know, what you show up at work. And so I say the head and heart pieces. I like to start my one on ones with my direct reports around head and heart check in, because as much as we try to compartmentalize, you can. And to bring your full self to work or as much as your full self as you can, it is sometimes acknowledging when you had that bad day or something else is happening. It helps me gauge where that person might be. And then absolutely, I think everyone talks about imposter syndrome. And I'm not to say that earlier in my career, I might have suffered from that.

28:28But now I feel like if I show up as myself, it encourages and it invites my junior teammates as well as my peers to be themselves. And it doesn't mean we always get it right, but I definitely feel like that inclusive vibe, that bold confidence, even the fashion style that some of the people bring to the office every single day reinforces that bit of culture.

28:59Everyone seems to be chasing the next big thing, the fastest answer, the quickest win. But great CMOs believe the real power isn't in the speed, it's in stepping back to see the bigger picture. That's why everything Deloitte does in their CMO program, from their industry-leading capabilities to their connected network of CMOs, is designed to help you zoom out and gain fresh perspective. Deloitte will help you see the bigger picture together. Learn more about the CMO program at cmo.deloitte.com.

29:33I had Emily Silver from Dick's Sporting Goods on the show several weeks ago, and I'm actually going to be seeing her at the Adobe Summit soon. And she talked a lot in the show about over time, she has gotten so comfortable with who she is, her style, her personality, how she shows up. And she thinks that's been so powerful for her evolution as a leader. So it's so, so important. Be who you are, right? Absolutely. Honestly, every day, You have to give yourself permission. I think there's a lot to that point of like getting to a place where you really know yourself back to my reflection of like, here's what I'm good at.

30:09Here's what I'm not great at. It doesn't mean I'm not going to address those things or be mindful of those or work on those. But also here's what the light I bring to this. And here's how I can show up and make it, you know, inclusive for other people. And I also would say, you know, in this space, there's not many black or brown CMOs. And so I also have a privilege to show that there can be someone in this role and be themself authentically themselves and be just as smart and just as excited about this role. And so I take that that pretty seriously. Where do you think your light shines brightest?

30:43What do you think is your greatest strength? Yeah, I think it's coaching and leadership. I think some of it comes from the court, right? I think I was a point guard, so I like to have the ball. But one of the things I always say about myself, not only could I score when I needed to, Jim, however, I could give the assist. But what I prided myself on is knowing, I remember playing, is like Big Ange, when she needed the ball, when she had, I would know, it's the first quarter, she hasn't scored, it's two minutes, I need to get Ange the ball in a place where she can score. And I say that in that light, it's because as I go to my place of work, I think about that for my team, right?

31:22What do they need? How do they need? How do they need to be coached? What's the vision I need to create? But along the way, there's a little bit of a player coach mentality of sometimes that means a pat on the back. Sometimes that means that stern conversation, but it's always real. It's always authentic. And I think that's where my leadership shines. Let's talk about brand building and marketing a bit at Savage X and also at Nike. I mean, And you have this interesting view of these two remarkable companies. How do they approach marketing? I mean, what would be similar in how they view brand building and marketing?

31:56And what would be very different? I think what's similar is listening to, in the Nike instance, the voice of the athlete. I think at Savage, we have a unique VIP base. And so understanding who we're serving, right? Knowing your consumer, knowing a lot about them in terms of what products they love, what fuels them and the data and both the, I like to say the art and the science of like who they are. I think it's the how that happens. I think when you have a longstanding brand like Nike, there's ways in which you've done that from really grandiose ways in terms of large campaigns, really proud of the work the team just did around Superbowl, et cetera.

32:37Yeah. Wow. Wow. Right. And it continues. It continues. Yes, it does. And then I think in Savage, we see it as a way we were born as a challenger brand. And I think one thing about Rhea is that obviously she's a big name. And so she does drive culture and it puts us in unique spaces. But we also have a really unique opportunity and we continue to scale this and our micro influencers because it's our local community. It's the women of all shapes and sizes that we bring to our brand who are our best evangelists. And so they're the ones who are talking about the latest bras or panties or lounge wear.

33:14And so we build that kind of one on one connection with our micro influencers. But it still creates this groundswell and connectivity to our brain. What do you think each company could teach the other? Really great question. I would say from Savage to Nike is move fast. Even if you don't get it right, iterate, learn, test and grow. And then I think from a Nike teaching Savage, it is still that obsession of storytelling around our products. Nike has long been positioned as an innovation brand and touting that. And so I think there's continued opportunity for us to tout what we love about some of our technology.

34:03I want to talk a little bit more about your career. I was reading an interview, actually a recent interview with you about advice you would give your younger self. I think it might've been in that age. I mean, I love that question. I've asked that to a number of people myself. And there were two ideas in that interview I'd like to explore a little further. And the first one is you talk about playing your game, not someone else's. And I think we've talked around that so far in this discussion, but I'd like you to talk about right now here in March, 2025, what is your game right now as CMO of Savage?

34:37I think it is creating and continuing to set a vision for us to all to rally around. I think the reason why we have a bold ambition to be the most inclusive Intimates brand. And so we understand that it's not the size that you are that makes you sexy. It's your bold confidence. And I think continuing to rally our team around that idea and our consumers around that idea is what I can help the team do in this moment in time. And I just say that because there's always a business plan that goes around how we do that. But there's also an aspirational approach that I think playing my game means bringing people along on a bigger journey to create that vision for folks.

35:26Any insights on how you're doing that that might help others? Great question. I think it's being clear on when I talk about our current business structure and our business model around insights. It is why are they shopping us versus others and what are they looking for for us? And I start with our consumer because I think we have to be really clear on what you're offering to them, that value prop, and then how we meet them in their path, right? I think that's whether they're shopping with us or e-comm, whether they're in one of our stores, we have wholesale distribution across the globe or in our own brick and mortar doors.

36:05And there's a reason why each one of those consumers, as you know, are going to those locations. And so I think it's trying to ensure that, you know, there's so much going on with technology, everything is scrolling. And so how can we make them stop? Whether it's the content that we have on our social channels and platforms, or it's the amazing experience they have when they see us in one of our locations. Now, the second issue I want to explore with you is you were talking in this interview about the importance of enjoying every moment of our journeys and our careers in life, and even the really challenging moments.

36:40And in that context, you made a very profound statement. You said, and I quote, remember, you are your ancestors' Wildest Dreams. I mean, that's a, it's a beautiful thought. So could you say more about that? Oh yeah. Thanks Jim. It's this notion, look, we always, and I'm guilty of it too. So I had to remind myself of that too, but we move so fast. There's so much, you go from project to project or big milestone to big milestone. And I think it's a reminder as a leader to celebrate every moment, right? And you can create that culture of your team. You're starting to celebrate the wins. I also think, as you think about the statement I made, is I go back to my mother and my grandmother and my father, who's no longer with us, of their prayers and the things that they allowed me to dream as a young kid.

37:26I think about my grandfather, who worked two jobs in rural Texas, and what he would think of the world and his granddaughter, and not just me, but the things that my siblings and the world now has. And so I do think there's this opportunity as I think about my responsibility or what I'm privileged to do every single day is to represent people who are no longer here, who could only dream what this opportunity is and would be. And it gives me a back to a sense of purpose as to why I do the work that I do, why I'm passionate about the work that I am, what I choose to spend my time on. And so while every project is not going to be the most sexy project and exciting project, it does remind us that along the way, have fun, because that is what this is supposed to be about.

38:21We're marketeers. We're telling stories. We're inspiring consumers. And we're bringing people to the brand. And it does feed off of how we show up and what we put out there. Yeah. You know, if we're not having a fun is an interesting word, but I think it's an important one. I've said this to many people when I was at P &G and since I've left, if you're not working on something that you're excited about, that you're looking forward to doing every day, that you're having fun with, that it makes you want to talk about, what do you expect your consumer to do? Yeah. If you're bored with what you're doing, they're going to be bored and that's not good business.

38:57Exactly. And it's contagious, right? Yeah, it is. The projects and plans that you were brainstorming with the team on, you're on the whiteboard and we're talking about this. It was actually earlier. I was talking to someone, Imani, on my team and we were brainstorming, but it is that opportunity and they do feel that. And I think at Savage, what we're able to do, and because we have so many passionate people who work here is all of us are consumers. And so what gets us excited? What is, how do we tell these stories that are really unique, interesting, thumb stopping that we can inspire folks around?

39:29One other question about your career. I mean, we all have those moments in our career that are defining. And it's hard to pick one. As I think about it, I could pick a few, but I'd like you to pick one or two that have been up to this point. You're still young. You have many years ahead of you, but what have been kind of crucible assignments, moments that kind of helped define who you are as a leader? I kind of discussed this a little bit. And when I was at Nike in Jordan, I actually departed from marketing for about a year and a half, almost two years. And I worked as the GM of women's for Jordan, North America.

40:08And so I talk about that experience because at that point I had gotten a vast, a lot of experiences around marketing and the marketing engine. But what I wanted to understand is like, am I learning enough about the business so I could understand P &L? And I talk about that because it was probably what got me more prepared about leaving if I also connect the dots is because I was uncomfortable and I had to look at line plans and I had to look at way more spreadsheets than I did in my marketing role. And it challenged my brain to think about other parts of the business. Merchandising is one in terms of marketing reported into me, but it was holistically how we were going to launch the women's brand for Jordan Brand North America.

40:49At the same time, that was during a time that we were working from home. So you can imagine just being a leader at that timeframe, learning a new skill and learning a new team. So there was where I had to be a little bit more vulnerable around, here's the things I learned and I knew, here's the things I don't know. But I'll go research, I'll go, set up one-on-ones with other individuals to get the information or feel more comfortable about it. But I had to get uncomfortable with not knowing everything. And I think as you know, as you continue to ascend in your career, there's going to be less of you being the individual contributor and more of you having to rely on your team for information or being that general manager.

41:27And so I think that was one of the formidable positions that even helped me with this role. And then I would say the other role that was pretty transformative in my career is in 2017, I was in Texas. I was having a great time. I was back in Dallas. I had this amazing job. I was working on the University of Texas, had a great team. And I got a call to come back to campus and work on Nike Training Club and specifically the app. And I have people who know me, I love technology, but sometimes I didn't even know we had an update on our iPhone. So I was like, wait a minute, you want me to kind of work on technology?

42:05This was in the early days of even Nike being on the foray of content and content development. But I think, again, if I think about that bold move that I took that role, again, made me very uncomfortable. I got to understand how do you serve members because we had anywhere between 700 to a million daily active users, how you serve them up content. We took the app from being just an app around content to being commerce driven. And so again, if I think about my journey and career of sitting in this seat now and being in an e-com based business, it helped me so much. And so I do think those are some of the two roles that challenge me as a leader, challenge me as a marketer, but actually set me up really nicely as I sit in this seat.

42:55So really, really appreciate those opportunities.

43:05Hi, everybody. I'm Andrea Sullivan, the CEO of Vive, and we have produced the CMO podcast with Jim Stengel for many years. And I'm sitting in his seat right now. It's so exciting. I wanted to tell you a little bit about one of our programs. It's called Vive by Vayner. It's a 12-month program that's designed for C-suiters and founders. And we want to help people to grow their businesses, but also to grow themselves. And so we bring in people from Shark Tank to talk to our founders. But we also focus on wellness. We want to make sure that people are leaning into becoming their best selves, their best and happiest selves.

43:46So if you are someone that wants to learn how to grow your business and grow yourself, check us out at Vive.co. That's V-Y-V-E dot co. We'd love to talk to you.

44:03Well, let's move to the creative brief, and this is going to be a good one. And I wanted to start with, I asked my daughter, who's one of your fans, what she would like to ask you. And she said, and it's an obvious one, she's very curious about how involved Rihanna is, how much input she has, how involved is she in the business, and what areas is she most passionate about? Oh, really great question. Oh, tell your daughter, thank you. And then also, she's very much involved. I think she is the chief, we call it chief visionary officer. She's a founder, but she's so much more than that. I think our team connects daily with either Rih and or her team often.

44:43And I think the thing about Rihanna that I've gotten to learn and been really impressed with is her ability to understand trends, the market, what is needed, but still stay authentic to who she is and her design ethos and what she wants to bring and her unique point of view, I would say to that. So oftentimes we're meeting back and forth on design concepts as we think about Valentine's Day and that unique campaign. She was in it with us to develop what the creative is, how it comes to life. I think another one that was super unique that I don't know if you saw this, Jim, but I know your daughter did.

45:19It was this opportunity that we had Glow, Glowrilla, amazing artists. And Rihanna has such love and respect for her. And so she went viral for singing some of her, one of her songs back in July. And then we signed her and had the first ever, we call it Fentyverse. All the Fenty brands were able to collaborate on a moment and we launched it in February. I bring that one up is because it was really unique and really important for the brand and Rihanna. She wanted to showcase glow in a really unique way that we hadn't seen her before. And so she absolutely is involved in our day-to-day work and how we think about where we're moving the brand forward and concepts and how we bring that to life.

46:03She'll love this answer. And you can tell from the brand, right? Yeah. I'm not sure. She won't be surprised by it. So we talked about the current Nike campaign and how proud you are to see them do that kind of work, which is Nike at its best. But I want you to talk about personally for you over your long career so far, 20 years or so, what's been the most meaningful initiative or campaign that you've worked on? This one is pretty interesting. I would say to your question, the most recent thing I was most proud of is the Valentine's Day campaign. Because I think in this climate, a brand who stands for inclusivity, it was really awesome for us to talk about Valentine's and Valentine's Day in that way of loving your way and how important it reinforces our values.

46:51So I think that's one of my most recent ones. I think the other campaign that I worked on that was pretty special to me is the time I was in Chicago. I was working for Nike basketball. and we got to bring summer basketball back to Chicago because it had been missing for 10 years. And if you know anything about hoops in Chicago, they love the Jordan brand and basketball like probably no other city. And summer basketball had been missing because brands hadn't invested in that area, which I always believe basketball is more than just a sport. To me, it was a way out. It was an outlet. It provided ample opportunity.

47:30And so I think when you're able to drive sport, but with such meaning. And so it was more than just a program that we were able to do on Saturdays that provided kids who couldn't go to the NBA games. They could go see their local legends. And every weekend for three years, there was like four to 5 ,000 people who would show up to Whitney Young High School to watch summer basketball. And what was great about that is a lot of NBA pros would come in and watch themselves or play in this league. And so it's that sense of community. And when a brand gets it right and it feels so local, you don't even feel it's a brand.

48:06You feel like it's a part of the neighborhood. And so that's what I'm really proud of. So it's called Shy League was the program. And by the way, I was in Cuba. I just got back from 10 days. Oh, nice. A lot of NBA jerseys on the streets. And by far, the dominant jersey is Jordan and LeBron. Absolutely. Absolutely. They love the man. They love MJ, is legacy, which is unmatched. We haven't had many CMOs in the show who've worked closely with two charismatic, global, legendary superstars. So I don't want you to go into crazy anecdotes and all that, but I would like you to talk about how that's changed you, being up close to these two remarkable people who have had a major impact on the planet.

48:50Yeah, it's humbling. And believe you me, I thank God, honestly, for these opportunities. I also think there's a sense, and I know this word is overused, but I do think in both of these instances, it is warranted. They're both like an MJ as well as a Rihanna. There's a level of authenticity that they bring. It is magnetic when you're around them and it shows that they are just the top of the top of their game. And it's almost hard for me to explain it because the amount of maniacal focus and expertise in intention and detail that they bring to whatever their craft is, I've seen that. But they're also, because they're kind of larger than life, they're also very human and very much real and warm people.

49:43And that's also reassuring. So as you work on those businesses, it inspires you in a little bit different way because they're so authentic in that space and they're so warm that you want to create magic for them. So it's, you know, it's definitely been an unbelievable experience for me to have. Yeah. I have to pinch myself most days. Okay. What's the first brand you remember as a young girl making an impact on you? Yeah, this probably won't surprise you, but I remember an ad Nike did and it was called Let Me Play. And it was in the voice of little girls. And it talked about if you let me play sport, the statistics around it, I will be more confident.

50:25I'll be more likely to do A, B, C, and D. And I remember I was actually in high school when I saw it and it just had such a unique, profound one, because I didn't expect young girls' voices in this commercial. Of course, it was an array of different girls, different sports and playing different sports. But it just resonated with me of like, big Nike, who my dad buys me these shoes and I think I can run faster in, sees me in such a unique way. And it's so true around why I choose to play sport. It started my love affair with the brand. I do think there's one from MJ too around failure. So And so that's another one that resonated with me.

51:09Now you like travel. I know that. So what's next for you? What are you looking forward to? I just talked about Cuba. So every summer I take my family away for a trip. So we're looking at either the Bahamas and or Hawaii, but more on a local standpoint, I actually want to go back to Europe this summer too. So Barcelona, some other places in Spain, because I've only gone to Barcelona. So it's probably maybe a European trip as well. Okay. We started this discussion with March Madness and we're going to end with it. And you know what the theme has been. I mean, it started with the men, but it's become sort of synonymous with March Madness, the one shining moment when the tournament's all ever.

51:51So I'd like you to talk about in your life, what would you say has been the one shining moment for you so far in your life? I think it's kind of where we started. If I had to sum up several moments, but that is the moment, it is my choice and also my experiences at UT. And I think the reason why I go there is because it absolutely were formidable years to transform me into who you see now. And I learned so much about myself. I think about the preparation, being a student athlete at a high profile university, how that prepared me for the game of life. I think back of the support I felt from Longhorn Nation, but then also my family, which is really important to me, which gave me the confidence to go out and conquer the world or play in the way that I need to play.

52:48So I think that would be one of the one shiny moments. And, you know, I have great girlfriends from that time frame and I can't always remember what game we won or lost or how many points I had or if I had a triple double, but just the experiences and the people have really shaped me. Where did your love of basketball start? Good one. My dad, he was a hooper in high school and college and I had an uncle who played at Texas Tech. And so one of the things I always remember is my dad would take my brother out and then as I was young then, I was probably like four or five. And so I would actually go with them and my brother would actually make me go with them.

53:26So then that's how I started playing. What number did you wear? 14. Still your lucky number? It is. It is my lucky number. Well, Vanessa, this has been so good. It's a great way to start March. Great way to start Women's History Month. I knew this would be a fantastic interview and it exceeded even my high expectations. So thank you for everything, for your inspiration, for your honesty, your authenticity, your insights. It's been a fabulous interview. And please come to Europe and come and I'll be in Cannes. Let's connect. Absolutely. I was going to say, Jim, thank you. As someone who grew up in marketing, like I said, one of my first jobs was an organization working at an agency.

54:04And so Procter & Gamble was one of our we were one of the agency of records. So I work with probably most of your team during that time frame. So my love of brand marketing started with working with P &G. So I am so proud to be on this show and actually get to sit across from you and talk to you. So I appreciate it. Well, thank you. That was my conversation with Vanessa Wallace. Three takeaways from this great one for your business brand and life. The first one is, and we hear this from a lot of CMOs in the show, the power of self-reflection. Taking time, take a deep breath and think about are you satisfied with where you are in life?

54:40How do you want to spend your time? Where do you want to be five years from now? Vanessa took a sabbatical from Nike after 15 years. She went to Italy. She took about three and a half weeks off. She was very reflective. She asked herself a lot of questions. And that led her to leave a company that she loved to join Savage X Fenty. And she's obviously very, very happy and satisfied and thrilled with what she's doing today. So the power of self-reflection. Second takeaway, a simple one, leading with your head and leading with your heart. Vanessa talked about how she approaches her team, how she approached onboarding at Savage X, the importance of leading with people with your heart and your head.

55:19It's a theme that comes out in this show, but I'm not sure we put it as front and center as we need to, especially in these times. And the third takeaway, when we talked about the special culture of Nike and the special culture of Savage X Fenty, it came down to one thing. Both organizations are obsessed with their consumers. For Nike, it's athletes, and they believe everyone's an athlete. And on Savage X Fenty, they are just obsessed with their consumers. It's part of their culture. It's part of Rihanna. It's part of Vanessa's team. They're always thinking about how to bring products and services to their customers that delight them, bring them joy, make their lives better.

55:58That's it for this episode of the CMO Podcast. If you found this helpful and entertaining, I would be so grateful if you could share our show with your friends. And I would be super happy if you subscribe so you can be updated as we publish new episodes. And if you really want to help, leave us a five-star rating and a positive review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen. The CMO Podcast is a Vive original production. Episodes of the CMO Podcast are produced by Vive. The views and opinions expressed by podcast speakers and guests are solely their own and do not reflect the opinions of our sponsors or its personnel, nor do our sponsors advocate or endorse any individuals or entities featured on the episodes.