Why You’re Gaining Weight in Midlife: Ozempic, Muscle Loss, and Longevity | Dr. Mary Pardee

26:28Because that is what the algorithm on social media often serves up. Or you're in the age group where like Arnold Schwarzenegger was a thing in your life. What can women do that's an actual step daily to start preserving and building muscle mass? Okay, I love this question. Can I reverse a little bit though? I want to like set the stage in terms of, I think people don't understand women with exercise, I think is a really important topic. Do you know who exercises more men or women? I would assume it's women and doing cardio. I said the same exact thing. And the answer is that women exercise less than men at every single stage of life.

27:06Dang. I know. I don't know. See, I was a group fitness instructor. That's how I earned money through college. So all my classes are women. So I would just assume that like, of course, women are always at the gym, but wow. I thought the same thing. Women exercise less than men in every single stage of life. So if you look at women in their fifties to sixties, about 18 % of women meet the American Heart Association's recommendations for aerobic and resistance training. 18%. Which is also a very low bar. That's so low. Like it's a, it's a low bar of what the thing is. Yeah. What the requirement is, isn't like something extreme.

27:47It's 150 minutes of aerobic activity with two days of strength training and only 18 % of women, 50 to 60 meet that requirement. As we age, less and less people meet that requirement. So as we age every single decade after our teens, fewer and fewer percentage of people, both men and women will meet that requirement. And so when people are talking about, I don't want to overexercise, I'm like, don't worry about it. Like there's a group of people that are doing it, but it is such a small percentage of the population is over-exercising, the vast majority of people are under-exercising. And I'm like, come on, ladies, we got to at least meet these men.

28:25And so resistance training is so important for women. I think that it's gotten marketed to men and it's gotten marketed that you're going to get bulky and you're going to have these big muscles and women should more do Pilates or they should be on the treadmill or the elliptical. And it's done women such a disservice because women need resistance training in order to maintain health. I think people think that health is given to you. Health is earned. And this is one of the things that you have to do to earn that piece of health. Women have much higher rates of osteoporosis than men do. And the resistance training is one of the number one things to do to both prevent and treat osteoporosis.

29:06We also see that women who exercise regularly have a 22 % reduced risk for breast cancer. We see people that have higher grip strengths have a reduced risk for almost every single type of cancer, cardiovascular disease, dementia, you name it, it's on the list. But it's so, so important. And so when people come in and they come to me and they're doing one day at Orange Theory and then they're doing one day at Pilates and maybe they're doing a run kind of thing, I'm like, okay, that's great. Any movement is better than no movement at all. But we want to separate this into aerobic versus resistance training because you get totally different benefits from both of them.

29:44When we talk about resistance training, the plan should be really simple. And that's just start lifting weights and then write everything down. And then every week, make sure that you're increasing the weights you're lifting or the repetition so your volume is increasing. And just do it really methodically. But start slow, go low, but push yourself to a place that is getting harder and harder and harder. So I sit with all my concierge patients. I just did this yesterday. I take out my training log and I'm like, this is what it's going to look like. And we get into the weeds of it because it can be so simple and effective if you're doing it the right way.

30:18But most people, like I said, are just kind of throwing stuff at the wall, hoping something fits, doing all this random stuff versus having a progressive overload plan. Mm hmm. I am so glad we're having this conversation because I have shared with my audience multiple times that I call it how not to die protocol. And anytime I'm like, oh, I don't feel like working out. Do you feel like dying? No. Oh, I don't feel like going in my sauna. Like it's uncomfortable. It's sweaty. It's going to take time. Do you feel like dying? No. Okay. Like, and that's something that I check it out. But people have been like, that's morbid.

30:51That's not a good way to think about it. And I'm like, if you know the research, the research you just laid out, you can't unknow it. You can't unknow it. And when you look at what is coming down the pipeline, it's how I've always practiced medicine is I look at my patient and look at what their goals are right now. And I try to be predictive of what's going to try to take them out in the future. And that's where we have to focus. And for women, we know it's going to be osteoporosis, but cardiovascular disease. So we've got dementia. We're like 60 plus percent of that population, but we've got cardiovascular disease.

31:23So I want to talk to you about this concept because people often think like, I'll just take statins when I get there. What is more powerful in your clinical opinion when it comes to preventing heart disease, waiting for the statin or coming in with the lifestyle? Both. I don't choose between these two things because they're very different in my mind. These are two different things. So we know that ASCVD is preventable and is caused by elevated levels of apolipoprotein B containing particles like LDL is what we talk about the most. And if we take away that as a potential cause, so if we lower your apolipoprotein B, if you look at the PISA trial, they looked at LDL cholesterol levels at 50.

32:080 % of people in that trial had plaque formation in their arteries when their LDL was 50 or below. Study and play. Come together on a Windows 11 PC. And for a limited time, college students get the best of both worlds. Get the Unreal College deal. Everything you need to study and play with select Windows 11 PCs. Eligible students get a year of Microsoft 365 Premium and a year of Xbox Game Pass Ultimate with a custom color Xbox wireless controller. Learn more at windows.com slash student offer. While supplies last, ends June 30th. Terms at aka.ms slash college PC. We should use that information.

32:46And so I get all of my patients to have an LDL of around 50 to 60. I measure APOB. So again, I keep it around like the 55 for apoliboprotein B. And then that's that. And that may be using diet. So if somebody comes in and maybe their LDL is like 65 or 70, then we may be able to just reduce saturated fat in that person's diet. Reducing saturated fat in the diet gives you up to a 20 % reduction in LDL cholesterol levels. If you're eating virtually no saturated fat, you're not going to get a 20 % reduction. So this is people that have it in the diet and are able to take it out. Some people, if you come in and you're eating super high saturated fat, maybe you're on carnivore or keto, then you might be get a little bit bigger of a reduction there.

33:32But LDL and apolipoprotein B are so genetically linked that there's not a huge lifestyle component to them. And I think we really need to sit with that because people think they have control over everything. You can't change your ApoE for Alzheimer's. You don't have control over that. And you don't have total control of your LDL and apolipoprotein B. You have some, but not as much as you may hope and think. And so that's where medications come in is just to get people to that goal unless they're already really low to begin with. Now, the lifestyle things I said are separate because you get additional risk reductions with starting to exercise.

34:07So if you start to exercise, say you're exercising like 300 minutes a week, you get a 22 % reduction in your risk for coronary artery disease. That's incredible. I want to compare that to, though, the person that comes in with an LDL of 140 that we lowered their LDL to like 60, that person has an 85 plus percent reduction in their risk for heart disease. But it's not that they don't do the exercise because they should get another 20 % reduction, different mechanisms. So heart disease in terms of exercise, exercise on a regular basis reduces your blood pressure. We want that regardless of what your apolipoprotein B is.

34:44It helps with endothelial function and nitric oxide synthesis. We want that in terms of heart disease. And so I really push people. This isn't an either or kind of thing. It's a yes and. And sometimes we don't need meds. Like I said, I've got those people that come in and naturally their ApoB is 55 and they've got great genetics and then they don't need a medication. You just monitor. Yeah. And I think the other thing that people need to understand the context of this conversation is that your cholesterol, your blood pressure, everything may have been fine your whole life and you go into menopause.

35:17And now that's a different story. And I don't think women are being monitored enough and closely enough. I also had the experience of, um, so my second child was born at 40 and I, three months postpartum, I was like, I want to get a full workup. I want to check my thyroid. I want to check all this stuff. And in the first time in my life, I had elevated cholesterol. And my doctor was like, hold up, like, this is very concerning. She's like, what is going on here? And I was like, I'm postpartum and 40. I have no estrogen right now. And I'm breastfeeding. And she's like, wait, say more. And we got to have a whole conversation because she was like, I don't tip it.

35:54I'm not treating like I'm not doing any kind of menopause care with hormones. And I'm like, and it was a big aha moment for me of like, okay, wow, like this is foreshadowing. This is the things to come. And I think if any woman's listening to this, she's ever had high cholesterol in her life. She's had high blood pressure. She's had any cardiovascular risks. Pay attention to this information closely because once you're in menopause, all of this better be monitored and checked. And you can always go on estrogen therapy. That significantly helps, but it's certainly, I think there's a huge disservice being done to women right now with the whole menopause conversation always being about hormone therapy and I'm like, I've been prescribing for over 12 years.

36:33I'm a big fan. Okay. Love, love hormones when they're indicated. It is not enough. It is not enough. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If you, if you come in with an, uh, an LDL of like one 35, estrogen is not going to get you to optimal ranges. It may improve things, but it's not going to get you to optimal ranges from what I've seen in practice. Um, and then for the women who are younger than the perimenopausal menopausal age group. I have women come in in their twenties and thirties. If you come in in your twenties and thirties and you do all of this stuff, you can improve your health span and lifespan substantially because you're at a such young age.

37:11But what I've noticed is that these people come in, they have, I had one woman, 20 something years old, LDL of 135. And I'm like, has anyone else told you to go on medication? And she goes, no, I'm too young, they say. And that is something that you hear all of the time from other doctors, primary care is that, oh, their 10-year risk for cardiovascular disease is so low because they're so young, so we're not going to treat them now. That makes no sense to me at all because we know plaque formation in the arteries is all about how much time LDL has been exposed to those arteries to create damage.

37:48So why would you give it 10, 20 years to do damage when you can just stop it in its tracks at the age of 20 and never have exposure to those arteries. And so I treat women as soon as they come in in their 20s and men and get them to optimal ranges. So you don't have any plaque formation that's going to happen. I don't care if you're not going to die in 10 years. I'm like, yeah, I don't think she's going to die by the age of 35. I also don't want her to die by the age of 85 by a heart attack. And that's how you prevent it. So people will often present the argument that cholesterol does not matter if there is no inflammation in the body.

38:24What do you say to that? Yeah, that's a common one that goes around social media and it's just completely false. So you can have zero, like you can have completely normal CRP, completely normal sed rate levels, and you can still put plaque down in your arteries. It's not an essential component. Now, if you also have inflammation, could it speed things up? Absolutely. You know, that's why one of the reasons potentially that obesity can accelerate ASCVD, plaque formation. Um, but if you have a really low ApoB, you can't put plaque down. And so someone just commented on Instagram the other day, they're like, you're so reductionistic.

39:02It's not just about ApoB. I'm like, I'm not saying it is. I'm the person that's talking all about lifestyle, all about nutrition, all about exercise. And let's not forget about this piece that's causing a good chunk of this ASCVD and just treat it. I'm going to be honest. I think people who say that, it's because they don't actually have a deeper understanding of the research and the clinical experience that you do, that they think you can just out-eat it. You can just out-exercise it. And what I'm hearing from you, yes, nutrition, lifestyle, absolutely essential, absolutely important. But there are certain situations and definitely genetic carriers that it's not going to be enough for them.

39:39And I think it's really important for people to understand this is very individualized and nuanced. And unfortunately, no clickbait for the algorithm to want to share this with everyone. So we're going to need you guys to help us share it because if it's not sensational, if it's not like, oh, this one thing fixes everything, right? The algorithm doesn't serve it up. And it's such a disservice. I think we're going to have a study in the next 20 years of how social media training people, right? Because even doctors have to say things sensational. And then you try to get into the nuance. but how what the impact of social media was on people's health by not serving them the actual information that would have helped them totally agree totally agree yeah yeah it's something that we need to and it just starts with each one of us right but i get it too because i also have an instagram following yeah i mean i think everybody gets it these days who creates content and you're like this is so good and so educational and the algorithm's like we will show this to no one and And then you're just like, you say something like off the cuff.

40:41And then it's like, oh God, I didn't get to say all the nuance because it was a seven second clip. And that brings everybody. Everybody wants to see it. Let me ask you, what's your take on why people gain weight as they age? Some people say it's metabolism slowing. Some people say it's just your hormones changing. What's the big picture of what's happening? I did this in a talk and didn't go over well with the crowd. But so from the ages of 20 to 60, our metabolism does not slow. We know that now. So ages of 20 to 60, your metabolism stays the same. So when women come in in their 40s, 50s, or men, and they say, oh, I'm just getting older.

41:18My metabolism slows. I'm 45. I go, I'm so sorry. It's not because of that. Let's take that off the table and actually empower you with the things that are going to help because you can get great results for weight loss. um after the age of 60 we see we see minor declines in metabolism but you're looking at 0.7 percent per year little little bits not these huge drastic shifts that we think now what we do 100 percent know that changes as we age is what i talked about before which is exercise so every decade of life after your teens people both men and women are exercising less and less and less.

41:57By the age of 50, about 18 % of women are meeting those minimum requirements from the American Heart Association for exercise. And so I think that it's two-part. I think that it is, we are not exercising enough. And I think that we are eating more and there's hormonal shifts that can contribute to increase cravings and appetite. And there's medications that can increase your appetite. And the fact that we live in a world that has so much ultra-processed food at every single corner, the accessibility, I think plays a role in it as well. But I think that it's, those are the things that we should be focused on versus, you know, trying to find like this, like hidden kind of thing.

42:40Yeah. I would also add that, you know, we know as estrogen goes down, we can accumulate visceral adiposity that can lead to increased inflammation, insulin resistance, and that can shift our metabolic health in a negative way. And for people listening, yes, estrogen therapy is an option, but we also know what moves the needle there. Higher fiber diet, less added sugar, which is what you were talking about with the ultra processed food. Ultra processed food is like, it's like eating styrofoam sometimes, right? But it tastes better where you're just like, you're getting no fiber, no nutrients, nothing from it.

43:18And I'm not here to be like, never eat ultra processed food because it's just not the society that we live in, but it is to reflect on that as well. Because I think that you're right as well, that hormones shift cravings, also shifts satiety. So your sense of feeling full. So there's a lot of factors going on here. But it's also, I think, why women feel frustrated when people are like, just eat less and move more. And it's like, that's so easy to say. You're acting like I, it's a willpower issue when it's like, I've got a whole physiological shifts happening here that's working against me. Totally.

43:55And maybe you're a mom of three and you're running to soccer practice and juggling your own career. So I'm not saying any of these things are easy, but I wouldn't put my time towards like some of the kooky things out there for weight loss. I would put my time towards how can I make sure that I can have a better diet. And maybe I do need to go on hormone replacement therapy to help with my mood or, you know, whatever it is kind of thing and get all the foundations in place. But absolutely, estrogen dropping reshifts fat distribution, right? So hormone replacement therapy doesn't cause weight loss, but it can change fat distribution in the body away from the midsection down towards the hips, butt, and thighs where it doesn't increase the cardiovascular disease risk as much.

44:41Good point. Yeah. I want to ask you, what's one thing about longevity that you wish people would stop obsessing over? There's so many things. It's the quick fixes. It's the people that are, you know, they're doing the greens powders and the colostrum, but they're borderline sarcopenic. It's, you know, going in for the NAD drip when you haven't exercised in two years, or, you know, it's like doing, it's the minors over the majors. It's like the people and the influencers that are focusing on these minor things that may have zero evidence or very little versus the major things that are going to give you 90 plus percent of the actual effects.

45:28I want to ask you about GLP-1s because you said quick fixes. A lot of people see that as a quick fix. However, in the context of the conversation, we've been talking about weight loss, but now we're starting to see really promising trials for cardiovascular disease coming out and starting to look at Alzheimer's and dementia patients as well. So from a longevity perspective, we're starting to see, there's the people who, right, we started with GLV-1s because they needed weight loss support or diabetic, but we're starting to see a lot more people using them at lower doses because of the potential cardiovascular.

46:04And the cardiovascular is actually established. So I won't say potential, potential for the individual, but the cardiovascular outcomes are established. The brain is the one that we're like still waiting for some more robust data to understand that. But what are your thoughts? And kidney function we're seeing as well. Yeah, kidney function. I think GLP-1s have a potential to be a geroprotective, meaning like a longevity drug. I think it's a potential. So we need to start looking at them more in normal weight individuals. And are we seeing health outcomes in those individuals? And can we use them in normal weight individuals that doesn't induce osteoporosis, like too much weight loss, right?

46:40Thank you for saying it. Is there somewhere like a happy medium where we can get some of these potential effects without negative side effects for those normal weight or healthy weight individuals? So it's one of the ones I'm really excited about in terms of potential geroprotectives. Would I go on one right now myself with that in mind? Absolutely not. Like my risk of osteoporosis, sarcopenia, if I lost weight or muscle, way outweighs potential benefits. And so we got to figure out like dosing what that looks like. and if we're getting the same effects with normal weight people as people who are overweight.

47:15But I use GLP-1s in my practice all the time with people where it's indicated and going to be helpful. And in conjunction with resistance training and all the things that we've been talking about, the outcomes are incredible. And you mentioned something before where it's like, well, of course, just eat less, exercise more. Do you hear that? Sounds like breakfast is ready. Because Quaker's coming in hot with morning nutrition, 100 % whole grain oats, and a good source of fiber to fuel the rhythm of your morning and kickstart your day. And that sounds absolutely delicious. Fuel to start whatever's next.

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48:04There's a lot of people who have been trying that for a long time and they lose 10 pounds and then they gain the 10 pounds. They lose 20 pounds. They regain it. And this is a huge step for obesity medicine because we're seeing people lose the weight, lose more weight, keep it off. And their mental health is changing. So the number of people that come into my practice and they've only lost like the first 10 pounds and they've got 100 plus to lose. But they're like, I've had people crying in tears just being like, I have my life back because they're not thinking about food 90 % of the day. So there's so many aspects to obesity and there's a huge obesity bias in our country.

48:44And we really have to view it as more of a disease state that has many different layers to it. One of them is mental, emotional and appetite regulation and all this other stuff. I appreciate you though, bringing up the muscle loss, the sarcopenia and the osteoporosis risk because I had people asking me to do a GLP-1 episode and talking about the science of cardiovascular disease and potential benefits and pairing it with HRT and how all of that works. Something I said in that episode was, if you lose weight and it is muscle, you are not healthier, you are just smaller. The number of women I had, right, who were like, I've been going to a med spa, getting these GLP-1s, and I am losing muscle.

49:33Like it never occurred to me that smaller doesn't mean healthier because the healthcare practitioner prescribing this didn't actually do a, you know, body analysis, didn't do a Dexomni, didn't do any of these things to make sure that like, this was the best move for me. And so I just really want to underlie what you're saying, because I think, you know, it goes back to what the exercise piece of what you were saying of women being told to do cardio, do Pilates, right? We're constantly told to shrink ourselves and that's been packaged as health. But from this conversation for people to understand, I want you all to go rewind and listen to what you said about sarcopenia and osteoporosis risk because you're absolutely right.

50:15Shrinking your body isn't going to necessarily mean you're healthier and it may put you at risk for the things that we are actually dying of. Yeah. Yeah. And I'll add one more layered to that where if you have somebody who's indicated for these GLP-1s, they're overweight, they're obese, they have weight to lose, it's affecting their metabolic health. The weight loss percentage from lean tissue versus fat mass is no different than if they were to do lifestyle changes. So we see the same amount of muscle mass loss with GLP-1s as we do with lifestyle changes throughout the trials, which is about like 25-ish percent of the weight loss will be from muscle mass.

50:52I measure that in all my patients. And so I just had somebody that come in, oh, your percentage of muscle mass loss versus fat loss is a little higher than I'd like to see it. Like, let's really focus on the resistance training. But you, you will always lose muscle when you lose weight. That's just where my concern comes in with normal weight people that we're not trying to lose weight. We don't want muscle losses in them. Yeah. Yeah. Let me ask you, if you could challenge the audience to like over the next seven days, do this one simple thing to improve your health and longevity, what would you challenge people to do?

51:26Oh, does it have to make them feel different in seven days? No, but it can start changing their life in seven days because habits take time to form. We all think we can just like start doing something the next day and then we'll be with it. I want you to start logging your workouts. This is one of the things that I think has made the biggest shift for my patients is log your workouts in terms of how much weight you're lifting, how many reps and how many sets you're doing and create a program where every week you're just increasing that number. Do the same exact workouts three days a week. But that one change I have seen make the biggest difference in people's body composition, risk for metabolic diseases, all this stuff, because it ensures a progressive overloading of the muscle and you'll get results.

52:13So many people are just like, just exercising randomly, which is great. That's better than nothing. But if you're gonna do one thing, log. That will change it in seven days. You will absolutely start changing in seven days. Let me ask you, what does, knowing what you know about longevity, what does your fitness routine look like through the week? So I do three days of resistance training. I log everything. I've got a spreadsheet and it improves every most weeks. and then I do at least two runs during the week with my little puppy and so we do a slow run for 40 minutes in the last 20 minutes I do a vo2 max workout which is sprint intervals so like all out for 20 minutes on and off a minute ish and then I play tennis twice a week and I usually go for at least one hike and that's kind of like the backbones and I walk my dog twice a day for at least like an hour each time.

53:05So I move a ton. Tennis is one of the big longevity hacks when it comes to exercise. So people playing pickleball as well tends to be so, so good for the brain. I want to do some rapid fire questions like with protocols that are all longevity focused with you. So I'm going to say something and you answer like top of mind. What do you think? Great. What would you recommend to people? So if someone has weak grip strength. Increase total body strength. You don't have to just increase your grip strength. Research is more about your total body strength. So lift weights. If someone has a family history of heart disease.

53:46Optimize your ApoB. Get it to like 50 to 60. Make sure your blood pressure is perfect. exercise eat a Mediterranean diet don't smoke avoid alcohol sleep seven hours you're off to at least seven hours please if someone has gained weight in midlife caloric restriction number one get about 1.8 grams per kilogram of body weight of protein if you're a woman 25 grams of protein or 25 grams of fiber for your man like 35 grams of fiber per day and just start moving your body more and more. There are people who say more is better with fiber. You just said 25 grams of fiber. There are people out there saying, no women, you need to get 35 to 50 grams of fiber.

54:32What are your thoughts on that? I think you need to start low, go slow with fiber, or you'll never eat it again because it'll cause intense gastrointestinal issues. So most people, I do diet logs with all my patients. They're coming in at around 10 grams of fiber, seven grams of fiber. If you went up to 35 from there, you would kill me. so you want to gradually increase just keep adding servings but 25 grams for women is the minimum and then it's um it's based on how much food you consume too so if you're a woman who's 170 pounds you're closer to 35 grams and yeah more may be better i don't think that there's really an upper limit for vegetables unless you know some tiktokers gonna show me that they died because they ate like 2 million pounds because people do it it's like whenever people are like i can't eat broccoli because I have thyroid disease.

55:18And I'm like, you know, your gut would stop you before you could eat the amount of broccoli it would take to affect your thyroid. Like we're talking about pounds of raw, raw broccoli. Your gut will say no before your thyroid even knows what's happening. Someone's going to do it. Someone's going to do it now and they're going to be sad. Don't do it. What do you say to someone who's like, I cannot get quality sleep? uh i've been there cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia love it google it find a practitioner and you will send me a thank you note and some flowers because that shit works yes i i agree when you're like restriction yeah yeah when you're like i've done all the sleep hygiene things and they don't work oh cbdi like works like a charm if someone's worried about dementia Um, top four risk factors for dementia that accounts for 30 % of global dementia cases is going to be number one, um, a sedentary lifestyle.

56:18So exercise hearing loss, make sure that you are checking your hearing throughout life. And if something happens, you need to get a hearing aid to fix it. Um, sedentary lifestyle, uh, blood pressure. So high blood pressure, maintaining a normal blood pressure is super important. And then education level. So continuing to learn things, learn a new language, um, you know, listen to podcasts that stimulate you mentally, have interesting conversations. Those are the top four, right after that LDL levels that are high in midlife three X the risk for dementia. So get your LDL, your APOB levels lower.

56:55And then it's all the things that we know, avoid smoking, you know, eat good food, Mediterranean diet for sure. Yada, yada, yada. Yeah. Mediterranean diet is always winning. And I love that you bring up the hearing loss and people, yes, it is true that magnesium has been shown to help with hearing loss. However, an audiologist is the person to see because you're absolutely right. If your hearing is going, get a hearing aid. Even if you want to try the magnesium and try other things, no one says you have to do one or the other. You can do both. And I think it's a great way to marry those things.

57:33If you had to make a bold prediction, what do you think we will know five years from now when it comes to longevity? Interesting. I think we'll have a sense of biomarkers for longevity. Like right now, I think some of the better ones are VO2 max, your appendicular lean mass, how much muscle you have on your arms and legs. things like A1C, fasting insulin, just in terms of like risk factors for the big things. But I think that we may know more about like biomarkers for actual longevity. We have these like biological clocks now that people will say, what's your biological age versus your chronological age?

58:11And right now they're trash. Like I wouldn't even touch them, at least the direct to consumer ones. But I think like those may be in a good spot or something like that in a good spot that we have more easy ways to measure longevity. And then I'm guessing like some better like gerotherapeutics where, yeah, maybe we have figured out the GLP-1 thing for extending lifespan or rapamycin has more information around it, or we know about maybe some supplements that are, you know, kind of promising. So I think we'll have more information on those right now because I don't think we have the information right now.

58:42Yeah. Well, thank you so much. This has been a fantastic and insightful conversation. Thanks for having me. It's good to see you too. Yeah. This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome? That's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required, compatibility and availability varies 18+.

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