From Backyard Hobby to 18-Year Business

0:00So we've just kind of shifted gears and like, you got to just be open to kind of, you know, meeting the market wherever they are, you know, because it is constantly evolving, constantly changing. Sometimes it's like taking an old design and reinventing it as like something like a wall art. We used to sell a lot of this particular type of wall art. Welcome to the DTC Insider Podcast, where online business owners come to find actionable tips and tactics to grow their businesses. Now, here's your host, Brian Roizenthal.

0:40Welcome to another episode of the TDC Insider Podcast. I'm Brian Roizenthal, your host, and today I'm going to interview Adam Vernon, the founder of Colorado's Key Chairs. Hey, Adam, thanks for being on the show. Hey, thanks for having me, Brian. Yeah, my pleasure. So why don't you start by introducing yourself and telling the audience more about you and the company? Yeah, I started Colorado Ski Furniture about 18, 19 years ago now. I was a ski racer growing up and just always enjoyed doing that and had a bunch of other corporate jobs and sales and marketing things that I did over the years. I've worked in health care for a long time and just wanted to do something a little different.

1:24and I had a bunch of old skis laying around and just built a ski chair in my backyard one day, just for fun on the weekends, kind of farting around. And all my friends and neighbors were like, man, that's really cool. Like, you know, what made you think of that? I'm like, I don't know. I just, I kept picking up skis and not getting rid of old skis and just had a lot of stuff laying around and still have lots of collectibles and stuff here. But it's my little home office but um so yeah now fast forwarding now um we've recycled over a million pounds of skis and stone boards and barrels and things like that yeah i've got like 20 employees and we ship all over the country and just kind of you know bringing stuff back to life for people and it's really fun it's really cool kind of unexpected i mean if i had old skis in my backyard or anything like a piece of good I don't know what I would do because I suck at all of those skills so did you have like I don't know any family member taught you or do you have or yourself taught you know do you know how to do those stuff yeah like you know we make now we make stuff out of like whiskey barrels and you know snowboards and golf clubs and you know kind of bunch of different stuff like the ones I initially made I'm not I'm not the world's best carpenter so I kind of was just winging it in the beginning and you know now I've got a whole team of guys that are all great carpenters and welders and painters and all that but it's like you don't have to be a skier like we have a lot of cool just different things you could you know we make stuff out of barn wood and you know all sorts of different stuff now but it's it's pretty neat Like you can people like we started doing custom paint jobs and custom like carvings and stuff, too.

3:18So like people can, you know, they have us paint their dogs in their honeymoon photos and, you know, their favorite mountain range or whatever. Like we'll paint those on a chair or like a wall piece or a table or something like that. So it's it's pretty wild how it's evolved into so many different things now, you know. Yeah. And you said that you started like a long time ago, like 18 years ago, probably almost 20 years. Yeah. The world, I could say, changed a little bit. A lot. Since then. Yeah, we've been through definitely. 2008 crash, before the pandemic. It was a lot. So what do you think that changed the most?

4:00Before talking about the business in the market, like associated to your industry, of course. Yeah, it's, it's hard to say like we're so we have a little brick and mortar store in this little tourist town. And, you know, things have been, we have really great seasons and really, really slow ones, you know, over the last 20 years, but it's like, you know, in general, people still keep coming because we're, we're sitting right at the foot of Pikes Peak. We're in this little cute, you know, tourist town, Manitou Springs, and we're right next to Colorado Springs. So it's a big, you know, big population there in Denver and Boulder, Dale and Aspen and Breck.

4:42And all these big towns are, you know, they're all within a few hours away. So it's like we get a lot of people and a lot of tourists no matter what, even when the tourism's down. You know, online, I think reaching people online is a constant battle of like trying to stay relevant, trying to put out good content that people think is interesting. And, you know, so we're always trying to innovate that and, you know, just come up with cool new stuff that people think, oh, wow, like I didn't like what they used to do, but now I really like what they're doing now, you know, so trying to kind of, you know, stay front of mind or come up with something cool and new and different and change up the colors and change up the styles and, you know, just keep trying new things.

5:22And people hit us up all the time too of like, can you do this crazy idea? And usually it's a yes. Sometimes projects get really expensive and then people are like, oh, never mind. I don't have$5 ,000 for that. It's not only that you produce what you want to produce, but people ask you for custom work with their skis as well. Yeah. And now it's more like businesses are hitting us up, which is kind of cool. Like the current economy is a little tougher for people to buy more luxury goods right now. So, you know, certain demographics aren't affected and others are. But like, you know, some of the bigger companies like Coca-Cola just bought like four big chairs from us last week.

6:03We made these eight foot tall giant chairs and like they always have the budget. You know, everybody's still drinking Coca-Cola. Apparently companies like that, it's like, you know, we'd like to help them with their branding. And it's pretty neat that we've been able to reach some of those folks, too. So it's like you never really know what's coming. you know so it's I love it when somebody's just saved up for years too like hey we just finally bought a house we've been following you guys for 10 years you know we have a deck we have somewhere to put these chairs now we moved out of the apartment and hey we need four chairs for the deck and I've been you know saving up for 10 years like we get those kind of calls too which is really fun and like you know or my kids were ski racers and they're getting you know somebody's getting married and so I'm going to bring you all his old skis and I want you to make a chair to surprise him, you know, for his 40th birthday or for a wedding gift or those kind of things.

6:51It's kind of neat. Like it's something, something significant and memorable. And it's kind of fun. Like the different things that come on over the years, it still surprised me. Like 20 years later, like you never really know what's coming, you know, some days we're super busy and it's crazy and there's all kinds of new things and other days it's kind of slow and you know, you never know what's coming, but it's, it's still fun. You know, it's always, It's always interesting. It's not boring corporate for sure. Like not predictable at all. I'm sorry? What was that? Not predictable at all. Yeah. Nothing's predictable even less these days.

7:26Economy, technology, like everything is unpredictable. But, you know, I can think of a thousand questions because, you know, most brands I interview these days, probably many of them have been created after the pandemic. And don't get me wrong. They are super successful. Some of them achieve, I don't know, eight figures, nine figures more. And, but in business for a long time, as you guys are doing, you know, is super tough. You know, some companies don't last a year or two and you're lasting 18 and counting. So I wanted to ask you, you know, I read today on LinkedIn a post that talked about how some well-known companies don't sell the same things they used to sell so their hero products changed over time like a lot they changed industries like nokia and many other companies like they don't they they didn't start doing what they do today but like nothing at all yeah did that happen to Do you or do you sell or are your heater products more or less the same?

8:31No, yeah, it's evolved a lot. Like I would say like just the little, you know, Adirondack ski chair was kind of our first thing. And we still sell a few of those, but it's nowhere near the top of the list now. And then painted chairs like painted custom or painted with like a Colorado flag or a USA flag or some kind of country flag or something like. We still do a ton of those. Mostly the Colorados are just kind of timeless here. You know, yeah, we moved into those giant chairs and the whiskey and wine barrel chairs and the ski lifts. We've kind of evolved into, I think, about 10 years ago, we did a ski lift.

9:12Somebody brought in and wanted us to put a base on it. And so I think we did a wooden one initially and then hired a welder and started doing the metal ones. And now there's just tons of chairlifts that we've been doing. You know, people bring in, I bought this chairlift at an auction five years ago, 20 years ago or whatever. And I never got around to using it. Like, can you guys help me weld this into something usable? And then, of course, you know, sandblasted, powder coated, build a seat on it, make it, you know, make it hang or make it stand up. and that whole thing wasn't on my radar for the first 10 years of the company and now it's probably number one or two best moving items that we have right now.

9:55So that's been kind of neat. It's evolution every year. The things that we paint, the things that we build, it really does change it. And now multiple times a year, there's seasons for different product categories and so I kind of have to forecast in my mind like, okay, we're moving into shot ski season. We're moving into ski pole plunger, holiday, funny gift, you know, goofy items season. And, you know, we're moving into like wedding season and all these different ones. So we kind of have to plan for, you know, what the trends are, but then there's still always like antiques, no shoes sell all year long and, you know, coffee tables and benches and little side tables and stuff like that.

10:38So all year long. So there's, there's some stuff that's stuck around and there's other things like it, like painted benches that haven't really sold many the last five years at all. And they're just starting to make a resurgence now. So it's again, it's very unpredictable. But like, we're also trying to put out new things every year. So it's keeps, you know, people's interest and they're always seeing something new. So my guys get frustrated with me when I'm trying to be like, Hey, we need more golf chairs, we need, you know, new chair bases, like completely different styles. And they're like, we don't have time, dude.

11:10Like, we really don't have time. And I'm I'm like, all right, well, when you get a slow week, let's try a few new things. And it's tough. It's tough to always juggle it all, really. Sure. And what about your customer? Did your customer evolve? Or has your customer evolved over time? Or do you target the same people you used to target them? Like it could be B2B, B2C. Yeah, it was real heavy B2C for a long time. And now it's more 50-50. B2B, you know, it's really become more of like, you know, mom and dad and the kids like getting something for the deck or the fire pit or the house, you know, the new backyard or whatever.

11:54That was really our bread and butter for the first 10 years. And now it's more so like those same people may be coming back, but they bought an Airbnb or something and, you know, or their friends or neighbors of like, hey, we love this set at our house. We're going to put one at the new rental property, more bookings, stuff like that. And then, you know, now just, yeah, reaching some of these beverage companies and the hotels and the hospitality industry has been really good to us. So they, I think they realized like having something that's really different and cool and fun and stands out of a more of an unforgettable experience for the guests where they're going to maybe also take pictures and post it on Instagram for them and tag their company or whatever like that I think we're getting more people minded of like you know making this furniture not just not just be for them but be for their guests or for their clients or for their customers and trying to like you know share those kind of feel-good vibes to actually help their you know their business or their you know some other goal that they're working on too a lot of people are doing multiple jobs more than ever and side hustles and all those things so we're you know we're getting just new interactions that we haven't gotten before too right so you mentioned you know people going to your store people calling you people buying online what are the main marketing channels for you right now and how did that change over time as well yeah so you know having a brick and mortar store has always been great and I kind of forget about it when we like We go through the slow season and it's kind of dead at our store, honestly, between Christmas and spring break.

13:38It's pretty quiet. The other eight or nine months are pretty busy there. But yeah, it's having Facebook, Instagram. LinkedIn's really big now. And we've tried to hit YouTube and Twitter a little bit and some of the other TikToks and all the different ones. like Etsy's been pretty good. We have a store there. People kind of appreciate the handcrafted goods on there as well. But yeah, like Google ads and all those kinds of things. We, we're pretty good at just trying everything and seeing where, you know, where we get some traction. My, my web guy has been pushing a lot of stuff onto Reddit lately, I guess has been pretty good.

14:21And we're just, yeah, Yeah, we're doing mostly ads there, but just kind of experimenting with what are new channels to reach people. I didn't want to do like a cheesy local furniture store, you know, cable TV commercial or something silly that we grew up with, all these goofy mattress guys or something. I didn't really want to try that, but maybe we should have. Maybe we should, you know, lean in more. I didn't watch your ads, but I did see that you have like almost like, I don't know, 6.5k subscribers on YouTube and you do some shorts there and you show the behind scenes for the process of, you know, well, manufacturing.

15:08Yeah. So that's pretty cool. Like people love watching those. Like I know I do, you know, whenever I see, you know, some people, you know, drafting something and whatever that is it's like i don't know relaxing uh with all the like it's i think it it you know you perceive these ads with all of your senses even more if the sound is on and you know these fast motion ads with all the like the sounds and stop marching and they're doing so it's like so it's pretty cool to see how things come you know to life especially like these original things because it's not that common thing like for you listening or watching these like if you don't know what they do go to coloradoskichips.com of course it's in the show but you can check that out because it's pretty cool it's something original it's not just another chair right yeah like we did one on tiktok a few years ago and it was just my guys in the parking lot my builders like playing cornhole on a set of cornhole boards we made out of old skis and just something nobody in the world is making those besides us like painted ski cornhole sets which is just kind of some you wouldn't think of but they're amazing because they they work great outside you know that the weather doesn't beat them up that the work you know like wood doesn't warp or anything like and people just thought that was cool and we got like two million views you know and then i have another one of it's my wife or one of my other painters that was she was painting at the shop and we put that video up recently on reddit and that got over like a million views as well and uh it's just it's cool seeing someone paint like old pairs of skis that are you know screwed together into this chair frame and then you see the final product and it is it's cool to watch that like stop motion a couple of my builders right now mark and angel they've been doing videos on you know what they're doing at the store every day and they've come up with some really funny ones, but it's, you kind of see their process of what they're working through.

17:12And I think people really, really dig that. And that's been such a big trend the last few years. So we try to get good at it, but like, you know, five, 10 years ago, nobody was really doing that. And 20 years ago, like we've done a few, but now it's kind of like, we're trying to do one every week. It's like, it's pretty neat. And it's pretty fun, honestly. Yeah. You know, it is said that it all start by having a great product and even though I interview amazing brands and I love all of them many of them sell things that their competitors sell to sure one might say they have x benefits over their competitors and the other way around but in this case do you think that the fact that you have kind of, I would say, a moat with your products because they are unique, let's say, is one of the key factors or the key reasons for your business to last this long?

18:12I think so. You know, I kind of, I try to focus on like reinventing, you know, what are we, what are we all about, you know, seasonally and annually and, you know, every few years, like just trying to meet like okay well this isn't nobody's buying these so i kind of you know put those on the back burner and try to put okay what is working right now like people are into this people are into that like so we we do kind of we shift gears a lot and try to stay like you know people seem to be buying like this year either very inexpensive items or very expensive items which is funny because it used to always be more of like the middle the middle tier stuff so it's it's really wild you know you gotta keep just offering different things and you know switching it up sometimes it's like taking an old design and reinventing it as like something like a wall art we used to sell a lot of this particular type of wall art well now it's selling better as like a single snowboard simple bench and it's about the same price as it used to be but it's a little bit harder for us to make them but if we you know if we make a bunch of them we can keep the cost down so we've just kind of shifted gears and like you've got to just be open to kind of you know meeting the market wherever they are you know because it is it's constantly evolving constantly changing yeah i'm thinking you know because it's i i the other day i spoke on stage in a e-commerce event here in Argentina and it was about AI in e-commerce.

19:50And I said, I don't love, I sat in front of probably over 600 people on stage in an AI talk that I wish I was a plumber because here we are. It's like everyone was mocking about, you know, people with let's say non-techy professions back in the days. Like, you should be like, parents were encouraging their kids. Like, you should study this. You should learn how to code. Because we thought that that was going to be the ultimate mode. Because, you know, and who is going to do that otherwise, right? These days with AI, probably developers are being replaced way faster than Plumber, right? Yeah, that's wild to think about.

20:40Sometimes between quotes, because I don't want to judge, but let's say between quotes, the boring job or the, let's say that evergreen job that's been always there for everyone is now the most wanted. Now, some would argue, and I agree with them too, that, you know, why being a plumber? Because it's like, this is the most exciting time to be in the field of, I don't know, marketing development because you can buy code and buy, build whatever you want with these copilot and create. And yes, of course, but I'm just saying that kind of kidding, but partially not let we, these, let's say timeless professions, nothing is irreplaceable, but it's easier these days to build a mode.

21:38like how many skincare brands are out there and are built every single year or month right with the ultimate ingredients the ultimate formula but now it's like hey you know you have this business and sure nothing is irreplaceable but it's let's say more timeless the way i see it yeah yeah it is those the timeless professions and you know some of the like the household goods Like we, we try to expand into different, like we're doing more indoor stuff now. So we're doing like painted snowboards as like an office mural, you know, or we're building more like, like reception desks in like, you know, certain just wall arts for your hallway.

22:25And, you know, a lot more indoor based, like man cave kind of chairs or like, you know, hospitality, like specialty, indoor seating, as well as, you know, just doing the outdoor stuff. So yeah, we've tried to adapt to and yeah, finding us hiring employees. It is harder than ever to find like the right person. You know, people want to just like, work the front desk or, you know, be a cashier or, you know, just do like, just do my, you know, one, you know, meta ads or something like that and it's like and you know with our small business like you really have to be somebody that's multi-talented really to stick around for us it's like if you don't bring you know a number of different skill sets or or be the best like be the best builder or the best welder or the best painter like some of those skills if you're really good at some of the you know kind of classical trades like that, like you're worth a lot to our company, you know, or, or if you can kind of be jack of all trades and, and wear a bunch of different hats, like I still wear probably 10 different hats at the company.

23:35And it's, it's challenging. It's not like 20, like I used to do, I still have a great staff now. But like, it is a lot sometimes when you're trying to kind of juggle and prioritize. And then when we need more help, like it's, okay, well, we really need a builder, but we also kind of need a delivery guy. And we also kind of need a salesperson. And we also kind of need a welder. So like somebody comes in and they check two or three or four of those boxes and you're like, okay, let's, you know, or they come in and they're like, I'm just, I'm an outstanding welder. Like, great. Okay. Well, you have that figured out.

24:10And, you know, other guys can lean into some of these other needs. So it's wild. Yeah. Like the whole I think the working field for everybody has changed so much especially since COVID you know and everybody kind of trying to reshuffle the deck and figure out you know what the needs are where people fit in yeah and every brand wants to be profitable and many brands you know they don't sell you know in different verticals like they don't sell high items they sell 20 30 50 100 items so they need to be looking after their you know expenses and that includes head count so I recently interviewed many you know let's say eight figure brands and one of them I remember it was only her and her husband and they brought their first full-timer I think it was like a few months ago so it was wild and they were doing like early like a load and eight figures sorry like you know just 10 million dollars but not just it was a lot of money just her for two people that's amazing and and some other you know 50 40 million uh companies here in the podcast then when i reviewed them at least they were under 10 so i know that it's it's not easy especially these days to you know have like let's say single skilled people or with a single task like everyone needs to be you know willing to do whatever for the company within certain parameters of course but yeah it's a totally common thing so i want to ask you know you feel that people buy you to the because of the functionality because of the story because of the wow effect have you found the reasons why Are they buy your products?

26:00And are they different for B2B and for B2B? Yeah, absolutely. You know, we push the sustainability factor a lot. And I think it hits home with a lot of people. And I think we do end up getting quite a few sales like throughout the year with just people respecting the fact that we're keeping the stuff out of the landfills and we're upcycling and we're making an impact there, which is really cool. But, you know, if we run like, let's say a promotion for like, hey, buy some sustainable chairs, etc. It doesn't really work, like really doesn't move the needle. It's kind of disappointing. Like there's so many people that really consider themselves, even the people that I'm connected with, hundreds of people on LinkedIn that work in sustainability.

26:45And I almost never get an order from any of them. Now, they may be just wildly underfunded, but it's like they can't put their money where their mouth is. You know what I mean? But like the sales and marketing and experiential event people and all those people, they're all buying, you know, so it's like they get it. But it's funny how the feel good sustainability side of things is kind of, you know, what so many people see, like, especially people that want to interview us or, you know, talk about kind of how cool the company is. Like, that's what they that's what they see. And I think ultimately it does help a lot.

27:17But it's like it really isn't like a real driver of of sales or growth, which is kind of funny. Like it's more of a in the background kind of a thing. You know, I think it is really also just like the customizability of it and the durability of it. And like, hey, you're going to spend five, six hundred bucks on this cool chair. But if you really think it's cool or you really want to customize it to something that's, you know, highlights your interest, et cetera. Like, you know, it's going to last you 10, 20 years. Like it's it's more of like a value buy. And, you know, people want something nice and quality.

27:51like you're going to buy the$100 sneakers more than you're going to buy the$30 sneakers because you know they're going to last you a year versus maybe a few months you know so I think a lot of times it's it's we're actually selling you know just this handcrafted cool made in America good that so many of us love those kinds of things like you know but that can be that can be big anywhere and back to what you were saying in your previous question I wanted to throw in too I saw the guy Robert from Shark Tank, Herjavik, I can't say his last name right, but he was talking last night how I saw a clip on LinkedIn, how at his company, everybody's card is the same.

28:32And we've been doing this for 20 years, we just have one business card. And it just has the company phone number. And obviously, everybody has their own emails and texts and stuff like that. But it's his point with it, which I didn't even realize I'd been doing all these years was like, if you don't like have the company first like as an employee and like I always try to put all my employees first you know is they put the company first in return it's like nobody just has this like little like I am marketing associate or I am you know this this specific title that we have none of us have titles really we all end up being like jacket trades like I'm the sales guy I'm the painter.

29:16I'm the delivery guy. I'm also the welder. You know, like we have quite a few guys that are multi-talented and almost all of us have that. It's kind of just really in the end, it's like, we're here to service the customers and we're here to help out. And if that means, you know, you're going to talk to somebody or send a tracking number or, you know, help, help them get something right. Like we're all just kind of all, all hands on deck. Like it's almost more like, like a pirate ship or something where uh you know there's this team and everybody's multi-talented and everybody's jumping and doing whatever it takes to you know get the customers what they want and keep people happy and it's kind of neat like it's it's very different how we do it but i was i was pleasantly surprised to see one of these big successful you know billionaire dudes saying oh yeah that's exactly how we do it we do it for a reason i'm just like okay that's kind of validates what I've always been thinking.

30:09Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah. I mean, if you think about it, before we were told to fit into certain buckets, and if that was your bucket, that's it. That's you. It defines you as a person, you know. And these days, with, let's say, if this is a word in English, democratization or democratization or whatever, you know, social media, you know, exposure media. content creation, commerce in general, you know, before you have a factory or owned a studio or you couldn't do business. Now you see teenagers, you see like very talented people that before they couldn't, it's not that these people didn't exist before, like they couldn't show their work.

30:59For a stage now, yeah. Yeah, now they have a voice before. They're you on the 600 person stage. voice was even and it was a lot of bureaucracy in tv channels and now that exists but like these people like you can go to market right away yeah influence than these many of them right so if you think about it it makes sense because we were we were born for more than a single task it evolves yeah this is involved people evolve and people want more things you know and i think that's a key for people to stay longer in a company personally i believe that because you said that this is your task this is you do this for 20 years some people love that don't get me wrong some people do love it right if your brain's wired that way like we we allow for that too like there there's been quite a few guys that are kind of just like i just want to you know make the wooden chair bases and, you know, cut route, sand, stain, like that's enough, you know, and some guys just want to do, you know, I'm just doing this one thing and they're great at it.

32:08And we leave them alone, you know, and we'll have them try something else and they're, they're not as comfortable doing that. And so we're like, you know what, go back to that. If you're happy, we're happy. Like, it's not always, it's not always the multi-talented folks that last year. It's, you know, it's knowing, knowing your comfort zone and, you know, going with your strengths is, is sometimes great. too, but I feel like it's much more rare than it used to be. Yeah. You know, just one of the probably final questions is about AI. I cannot skip AI. I'll talk about AI. So I think in this case, I don't know if you stopped to think about how you can implement AI in your business or if you are already implementing that, but I think that, you know, a brand that I know here in Argentina, they are like, I don't know if worldwide, I think they sell in the US, but they are well known in Latin America and they sell shoes, but super high end shoes.

33:07Like they want to be like shimmy shoe or I don't know those high end brands like Prada or I don't, but designers. Okay. They allow their customers to build their custom shoes through prompts online and they buy it and they manufacture the shoe for them. I have a podcast here in Argentina, too. I record in the studio. I interviewed them earlier this year, and I learned about that. And it was like, whoa, this is cool. Are you doing that or thought about, hey, you bring these skis, take a photo. What do you have in mind? Play around with the design, and we'll make it happen if it's possible. Yeah, my web designer, Chris, and I, he's been here like 12 years.

33:54And we've been playing around with a lot of different variations and optimizations and just things that we can do on the website. Yeah, to help with creativity and basically like pick a chair and then, you know, scan it in the room and you can kind of see like what it looks like in your space. We've been trying to integrate those. We've got a couple new launches we're going to be doing in the next few months that will make the website a lot easier. And it is, it is helpful on some level, like on the other, you know, on the other hand, I don't think it's going to be cutting any boards or doing, you know, doing anything specifically yet.

34:30And thus we can afford like a, like a GM or Ford or Toyota or something level production facility with, you know, million dollar machines that are making this stuff. We're, we're nowhere near that yet, but I know like, you know, for small time manufacturers like us, like, I think it's going to help on the shopping experience side. And certainly like the sales and marketing and blogging side, like, there's a lot of things you can do to, you know, enhance what you're already doing, you know, but yeah, a lot of it, like, there's also I think people leaning into it a little bit too hard. There's a lot of companies that hit us up all the time of like, we're, you know, an AI based marketing agency, things like that.

35:12I check and they don't have any reviews. They're all like startups and they don't know what they're doing. and they're just, they're just winging it with like, what can we do to do this faster? But if it doesn't really work yet, like a lot of stuff is still needs, you know, a lot of beta testing and like, you know, people are, are getting excited about it, but it's, you know, kind of putting the cart before the horse type of thing. But it is funny, like to see, to see what things will really work and things that maybe won't, but it's going to be wild. Yeah. Hopefully it, you know, it doesn't, doesn't go bad.